Re: Adult onset dyspraxia? Please help

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I will try to answer your questions. He has not always been clumsy. My husband

and I noticed it starting about two years ago but were not too concerned because

he is usually rushing around and we just thought it was carelessness. The

neurologist did test his eyes and he was NOT able to follow his finger without

moving his head. He has worn glasses since he was five years old, and since I

have sat through his eye exams I know that this is something new also. We have

nine other children and is our second. was very involved in a local

drama group and church for many years, and had quite a few friends, one very

best friend. He got his braces quite late, around age sixteen. He had a

terrible overbite and he wore them for two years, so he got them off at 18. I

am planning on taking him to an slp, that is my next step. My oldest son has

aspersers and was in EI for a few years and private speech, so I am very

familiar with speech and language therapy and that is why I did not have

concerns about when he was young. The loudness of his voice has always

been there, once again I just thought he would outgrow that and learn to speak

more quietly. I have been wracking my brain and trying so hard to determine if

I just overlooked something all his life or didn't want to notice was

different because I was dealing with my oldest sons aspergers. Than I look back

to his days in drama and how well he recited all his lines and learned the

dances without difficulty and how he is so different now. He is kind and sweet

and brave about all of this and I am truly blessed, and yet I hurt for him so

much.

thanks,

Lorene

@...: kiddietalk@...: Sat, 12

Jul 2008 21:47:29 +0000Subject: [ ] Adult onset dyspraxia?

Please help

" The neurologist thinks he has a neurological disorder that is progressive but

he doesn't know which one " OMG that is such a horrible thing to say to a parent

even if he or she was thinking this! Especially since what you wrote there is

nothing pointing to this assumption. I would seek a second opinion with a

different neurologist for starters!Do the testing -but don't say all the reasons

why?!!!You say he's clumsy- is this only recently and if not when did you first

notice it? How is his eye gaze? Can he follow your finger if you move it around

in front of his eyes? Do you have any other children? Since he was homeschooled

and you say he has no friends -did he ever? How long has his speech been

" mushy " ? You say you noticed it when he had braces on and most have braces

during early teen years -so years ago? Did you ever take him for a speech

evaluation by an SLP? I would highly recommend that in addition to finding

another neurologist for a second opinion.There could be many reasons for slurry

speech -not just progressive neurological disorders!

http://www.cureresearch.com/sym/slurred_speech.htm And there could be many

reasons for adult onset dyspraxia- we are currently helping someone with this

right now who previously was a TV personality who was diagnosed with apraxia due

to a stroke. We are planned on using the same methods we use to help children

with apraxia -this is what this person wants to try. According to this article

all ages make the same errorshttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9127059 Also we

don't know for sure if children that are diagnosed with apraxia are born with

it. I feel strongly that my son's apraxia and many others have acquired apraxia.

Not all acquired apraxia is from a stroke -but in adults that is what you hear

about most.You say your son is on fish oil. What dosage and formula as they are

not all the same. We do have quite a few older individuals with apraxia in this

group but most don't post often. I hope some do notice this and reach out to

help as well.Please let us know the answer to those few questions when you

can.Don't give up hope!!!

[Guest guest]

HI ,

I just joined the group yesterday to learn more about my daughters apraxia, but

just had to respond to your post.

Please get another neurologist opinion. There is absolutely no reason that you

should be told that your son may have a degenerative neurological condition and

have anyone leave it at that without providing you with additional

information!!!!!

Im not sure where you live, but it may be reasonable to travel to a city to see

a neurologist in a large medical center that specializes in Neurology. Columbia

University in NYC has a great neurology program. I have a friend with a

degenerative condition and they were wonderful there in diagnosing and treating

him very effectively. The large centers are more familiar with the rare

conditions and may be able to offer you much more information.

If you want the name of the doc at Columbia, please email me and I will get it

from my friend.

Good luck, and?remember that you are entitled to much more information than

you've been given!!?

Janet

Kates mom?

[Guest guest]

Is he still eating and drinking fine? Swallowing? (any drooling)

Since he's 20 how does he feel about what's going on? Did he

complain about anything changing? Eyesight more blurry, feeling

dizzy, can't do an activity that he previously loved to do? What are

his hobbies and are any of them involving athletics? Does he still

do them? Is there any area that doesn't appear to be affected? Does

his recent change in coordination and speech bother him?

Were there any changes in his life going back a few years ago when

you first noticed the changes? Moving for example? Did he have any

surgery, more severe illness -high fevers, anything that would

involve possible high toxicity including any drugs/vitamins/herbs he

may have been put on? Any interest in girls?

When is the last time he was in theater? Is he still interested? Do

any of his brothers or sisters still live with you and your husband

and if so what do they have to say about his changes? Also when did you start

the fish oils and again which formula and dosage?

About looking back I can so relate as Dakota, my first son was the

one everyone was worried about

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/workandfamily.html

and Tanner was our " normal healthy baby "

http://cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html Looking

back many of the things we gave cute nicknames to such as " the

serious babe " and even " cherub boy " were descriptions of his oral

apraxia and his hypotonia -we just didn't know that until we took him

to a developmental pediatrician and pediatric neurologists who

diagnosed things that his regular pediatrician overlooked. That's

what you need -someone who can examine your son and send him for

tests if needed to rule out or confirm a diagnosis. Differential

diagnosis means looking at every possible reason and finding the

accurate one from the group. It doesn't mean " the patient is laying

down with his eyes closed and he's not talking or moving -I'm sorry

to tell you this but the patient could be dead " When in fact nothing

else was checked and the patient is asleep!

I like the suggestion of taking him to a neurologist in a large

medical center that specializes in Neurology as Janet suggested. If

you let us know what state you are in- which you are close to -we can

probably make suggestions as a group.

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi,

thanks for your concern and questions. Let me try to answer them for you. He

does not drool but in the past few months I have noticed his tongue kinda

hanging out of his mouth when he is concentrating. He doesn't seem to notice it

and I have brought it to his attention and he corrects it. He has no problem

swallowing but he is chewing more " sloppily " , with his mouth open. He feels

upset and nervous that he is more clumsy, and notices that he drops things more

often and feels very upset if someone asks him to do a task such as help move a

piece of furniture, etc.. He likes to bowl, and can still do okay. He has

never been real athletic. He does complain of daily headaches, which he told

the doctor about. The one area that has not been affected is his faith in Gods

love. I feel as his mother that he is affected in every other area. He has some

incontinence, memory loss, overall cognitive ability seems affected.

He was put on strong antibiotics for acne about two years ago. He no longer

takes them. He also takes vita. B, vita. D, and zinc. There were no other

changes in our environment. He is interested in girls, but has not had any real

dates. His last play in theatre was the ton which was 3 years ago. He

has lost a lot of confidence, and has not tried out for the adult theater group

since he is too old for the children's one he was in. I have eight other

children at home. Fifteen months ago our oldest son moved out and he was

's best friend so this has been hard on him. His teenage sisters are 16

and 15 and they have noticed and are concerned with all of this. He walks three

to four days a week with his sister (16). He is afraid to drive as he was hit

by a car 4 years ago riding his bike and will not ride a bike to this day and

has resisted learning to drive, although at this point I am glad since his

eye/hand coordination is not good. My other children are 12,8,7, 6, 3 and 2.

We live in Michigan and I am thinking that University of Michigan may be another

place to go for an evaluation. I feel crazy with wondering what is happening.

I have a daughter 3 who has down syndrome, so I am aware of what cognitive

delays can do, and this was not the case with as a child. A large

university like University of Mi can probably do a more comprehensive study. We

are having to pay out of pocket for everything as is not longer eligible

to be on our insurance due to his age. I called our state health department

and they told me that there is a freeze on disability insurance???? A

freeze???? Yeah, I will have to do whatever it takes, and I will. Thanks again

for the info. I asked tonight if he notices a struggle getting his words

out and he said, NO, so he doesn't seem aware of that particular symptom, yet it

is the most obvious.??? Let me know if anyone knows of a good overall

nuero/speech center in south east Michigan.

thanks,

Lorene

>

> Is he still eating and drinking fine? Swallowing? (any drooling)

> Since he's 20 how does he feel about what's going on? Did he

> complain about anything changing? Eyesight more blurry, feeling

> dizzy, can't do an activity that he previously loved to do? What are

> his hobbies and are any of them involving athletics? Does he still

> do them? Is there any area that doesn't appear to be affected? Does

> his recent change in coordination and speech bother him?

>

> Were there any changes in his life going back a few years ago when

> you first noticed the changes? Moving for example? Did he have any

> surgery, more severe illness -high fevers, anything that would

> involve possible high toxicity including any drugs/vitamins/herbs he

> may have been put on? Any interest in girls?

>

> When is the last time he was in theater? Is he still interested? Do

> any of his brothers or sisters still live with you and your husband

> and if so what do they have to say about his changes? Also when did you start

the fish oils and again which formula and dosage?

>

> About looking back I can so relate as Dakota, my first son was the

> one everyone was worried about

> http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/workandfamily.html

> and Tanner was our " normal healthy baby "

> http://cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html Looking

> back many of the things we gave cute nicknames to such as " the

> serious babe " and even " cherub boy " were descriptions of his oral

> apraxia and his hypotonia -we just didn't know that until we took him

> to a developmental pediatrician and pediatric neurologists who

> diagnosed things that his regular pediatrician overlooked. That's

> what you need -someone who can examine your son and send him for

> tests if needed to rule out or confirm a diagnosis. Differential

> diagnosis means looking at every possible reason and finding the

> accurate one from the group. It doesn't mean " the patient is laying

> down with his eyes closed and he's not talking or moving -I'm sorry

> to tell you this but the patient could be dead " When in fact nothing

> else was checked and the patient is asleep!

>

> I like the suggestion of taking him to a neurologist in a large

> medical center that specializes in Neurology as Janet suggested. If

> you let us know what state you are in- which you are close to -we can

> probably make suggestions as a group.

>

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

" He is afraid to drive as he was hit by a car 4 years ago riding his

bike "

You say you noticed the slurred speech when he had his braces on (at

16 which is 4 years ago) Was the change after the car accident or

before? If after this has to be the reason which will help when you

take him to the new neurologist! (the last one knows right?)

I'm sure he's been checked for head injury already- but TBI from what

I've just read can take years to overcome. I also just read an

article that the brain continues to learn at every age!

" Baby boomers, take comfort: A new study among older would-be

jugglers suggests the aging mind doesn't lose the ability to learn

new skills. "

http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/healthday/2008/07/11/aging-brain-.html

There are specific therapies if this is what he's dealing with...and

there's so much hope no matter what.

" Traumatic brain injury (TBI) commonly affects younger people and

causes life-long impairments in physical, cognitive, behavioural and

social function. The cognitive, behavioural and personality deficits

are usually more disabling than the residual physical deficits.

Recovery from TBI can continue for at least 5 years after injury.

Rehabilitation is effective using an interdisciplinary approach, and

close liaison with the patient, family and carers. The focus is on

issues such as retraining in activities of daily living, pain

management, cognitive and behavioural therapies, and pharmacological

management.

The social burden of TBI is significant, and therefore family

education and counselling, and support of patient and carers, is

important.

General practitioners play an important role in providing ongoing

support in the community, monitoring for medical complications,

behavioural and personality issues, social reintegration, carer

coping skills and return-to-work issues. "

http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/178_06_170303/kha11095_fm.html

=====

[Guest guest]

Have you checked for Lyme's Disease? The tests that regular doctors administer

are not always adequate for detecting it.....I've heard you have to go to a

lyme's specialist.

I have seen this.....my son's birthmother exhibits degenerative symptoms. Since

we adopted our son, I've seen a steady decline in her abilities.....slurring her

words, less control over her tongue. I would definitely encourage you to

approach this with a very open mind, and begin contacting everyone that might be

of help to you (DAN doctor, Lyme's specialists, etc). Google Lymes Induced

Autism. You say your doctor checked for metal toxicity.....did they use the

UPPA or hair analysis.....or bloodwork. The results can be very different. Has

your son tried doing away with gluten and casien or have has he been tested for

food allergies? Could he be celiac? These are some of the places I'd start

looking: Lymes specialist, DAN for the UPPA/hair analysis (to detect the body's

burden of metal toxicity), testing for food allergies.

> >

> > Is he still eating and drinking fine? Swallowing? (any drooling)

> > Since he's 20 how does he feel about what's going on? Did he

> > complain about anything changing? Eyesight more blurry, feeling

> > dizzy, can't do an activity that he previously loved to do? What are

> > his hobbies and are any of them involving athletics? Does he still

> > do them? Is there any area that doesn't appear to be affected? Does

> > his recent change in coordination and speech bother him?

> >

> > Were there any changes in his life going back a few years ago when

> > you first noticed the changes? Moving for example? Did he have any

> > surgery, more severe illness -high fevers, anything that would

> > involve possible high toxicity including any drugs/vitamins/herbs he

> > may have been put on? Any interest in girls?

> >

> > When is the last time he was in theater? Is he still interested? Do

> > any of his brothers or sisters still live with you and your husband

> > and if so what do they have to say about his changes? Also when did you

start the fish oils and again which formula and dosage?

> >

> > About looking back I can so relate as Dakota, my first son was the

> > one everyone was worried about

> > http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/workandfamily.html

> > and Tanner was our " normal healthy baby "

> > http://cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html Looking

> > back many of the things we gave cute nicknames to such as " the

> > serious babe " and even " cherub boy " were descriptions of his oral

> > apraxia and his hypotonia -we just didn't know that until we took him

> > to a developmental pediatrician and pediatric neurologists who

> > diagnosed things that his regular pediatrician overlooked. That's

> > what you need -someone who can examine your son and send him for

> > tests if needed to rule out or confirm a diagnosis. Differential

> > diagnosis means looking at every possible reason and finding the

> > accurate one from the group. It doesn't mean " the patient is laying

> > down with his eyes closed and he's not talking or moving -I'm sorry

> > to tell you this but the patient could be dead " When in fact nothing

> > else was checked and the patient is asleep!

> >

> > I like the suggestion of taking him to a neurologist in a large

> > medical center that specializes in Neurology as Janet suggested. If

> > you let us know what state you are in- which you are close to -we can

> > probably make suggestions as a group.

> >

> >

> > =====

> >

[Guest guest]

To properly rule out Lymes you need a 16 blot Western Blot test from

a specialist.

> > >

> > > Is he still eating and drinking fine? Swallowing? (any

drooling)

> > > Since he's 20 how does he feel about what's going on? Did he

> > > complain about anything changing? Eyesight more blurry, feeling

> > > dizzy, can't do an activity that he previously loved to do?

What are

> > > his hobbies and are any of them involving athletics? Does he

still

> > > do them? Is there any area that doesn't appear to be

affected? Does

> > > his recent change in coordination and speech bother him?

> > >

> > > Were there any changes in his life going back a few years ago

when

> > > you first noticed the changes? Moving for example? Did he

have any

> > > surgery, more severe illness -high fevers, anything that would

> > > involve possible high toxicity including any

drugs/vitamins/herbs he

> > > may have been put on? Any interest in girls?

> > >

> > > When is the last time he was in theater? Is he still

interested? Do

> > > any of his brothers or sisters still live with you and your

husband

> > > and if so what do they have to say about his changes? Also

when did you start the fish oils and again which formula and dosage?

> > >

> > > About looking back I can so relate as Dakota, my first son was

the

> > > one everyone was worried about

> > >

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/workandfamily.html

> > > and Tanner was our " normal healthy baby "

> > > http://cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

Looking

> > > back many of the things we gave cute nicknames to such as " the

> > > serious babe " and even " cherub boy " were descriptions of his

oral

> > > apraxia and his hypotonia -we just didn't know that until we

took him

> > > to a developmental pediatrician and pediatric neurologists who

> > > diagnosed things that his regular pediatrician overlooked.

That's

> > > what you need -someone who can examine your son and send him for

> > > tests if needed to rule out or confirm a diagnosis.

Differential

> > > diagnosis means looking at every possible reason and finding the

> > > accurate one from the group. It doesn't mean " the patient is

laying

> > > down with his eyes closed and he's not talking or moving -I'm

sorry

> > > to tell you this but the patient could be dead " When in fact

nothing

> > > else was checked and the patient is asleep!

> > >

> > > I like the suggestion of taking him to a neurologist in a large

> > > medical center that specializes in Neurology as Janet

suggested. If

> > > you let us know what state you are in- which you are close to -

we can

> > > probably make suggestions as a group.

> > >

> > >

> > > =====

> > >

[Guest guest]

Thank you, you are the second person who has suggested Lyme disease. I am

encouraged not to take the neurologists opinion too seriously as of yet. We had

the MRI and yet doesn't want to see him until Sept.??? This isn't something

that can wait/nor should wait yet more months before we start on a new round of

tests. I really appreciate all of your help.

Lorene

@...: hanagan_8@...: Sun, 13

Jul 2008 23:19:43 -0700Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Adult onset

dyspraxia? Please help

Have you checked for Lyme's Disease? The tests that regular doctors administer

are not always adequate for detecting it.....I've heard you have to go to a

lyme's specialist.I have seen this.....my son's birthmother exhibits

degenerative symptoms. Since we adopted our son, I've seen a steady decline in

her abilities.....slurring her words, less control over her tongue. I would

definitely encourage you to approach this with a very open mind, and begin

contacting everyone that might be of help to you (DAN doctor, Lyme's

specialists, etc). Google Lymes Induced Autism. You say your doctor checked for

metal toxicity.....did they use the UPPA or hair analysis.....or bloodwork. The

results can be very different. Has your son tried doing away with gluten and

casien or have has he been tested for food allergies? Could he be celiac? These

are some of the places I'd start looking: Lymes specialist, DAN for the

UPPA/hair analysis (to detect the body's burden of metal toxicity), testing for

food allergies.> >> > Is he still eating and drinking fine?

Swallowing? (any drooling)> > Since he's 20 how does he feel about what's going

on? Did he> > complain about anything changing? Eyesight more blurry, feeling> >

dizzy, can't do an activity that he previously loved to do? What are> > his

hobbies and are any of them involving athletics? Does he still> > do them? Is

there any area that doesn't appear to be affected? Does> > his recent change in

coordination and speech bother him?> > > > Were there any changes in his life

going back a few years ago when> > you first noticed the changes? Moving for

example? Did he have any> > surgery, more severe illness -high fevers, anything

that would> > involve possible high toxicity including any drugs/vitamins/herbs

he> > may have been put on? Any interest in girls?> > > > When is the last time

he was in theater? Is he still interested? Do> > any of his brothers or sisters

still live with you and your husband> > and if so what do they have to say about

his changes? Also when did you start the fish oils and again which formula and

dosage?> > > > About looking back I can so relate as Dakota, my first son was

the> > one everyone was worried about> >

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/workandfamily.html> > and

Tanner was our " normal healthy baby " > >

http://cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html Looking> > back many of

the things we gave cute nicknames to such as " the> > serious babe " and even

" cherub boy " were descriptions of his oral> > apraxia and his hypotonia -we just

didn't know that until we took him> > to a developmental pediatrician and

pediatric neurologists who> > diagnosed things that his regular pediatrician

overlooked. That's> > what you need -someone who can examine your son and send

him for> > tests if needed to rule out or confirm a diagnosis. Differential> >

diagnosis means looking at every possible reason and finding the> > accurate one

from the group. It doesn't mean " the patient is laying> > down with his eyes

closed and he's not talking or moving -I'm sorry> > to tell you this but the

patient could be dead " When in fact nothing> > else was checked and the patient

is asleep!> > > > I like the suggestion of taking him to a neurologist in a

large> > medical center that specializes in Neurology as Janet suggested. If> >

you let us know what state you are in- which you are close to -we can> >

probably make suggestions as a group.> > > > > > =====> >

[Guest guest]

It's me again. You mentioned your son's birth mom having these symptoms. Does

she have lyme disease? The way you worded it I wasn't sure. If not lymes do

you know what the cause of her decline is, and how old is she??

Lorene

@...: hanagan_8@...: Sun, 13

Jul 2008 23:19:43 -0700Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Adult onset

dyspraxia? Please help

Have you checked for Lyme's Disease? The tests that regular doctors administer

are not always adequate for detecting it.....I've heard you have to go to a

lyme's specialist.I have seen this.....my son's birthmother exhibits

degenerative symptoms. Since we adopted our son, I've seen a steady decline in

her abilities.....slurring her words, less control over her tongue. I would

definitely encourage you to approach this with a very open mind, and begin

contacting everyone that might be of help to you (DAN doctor, Lyme's

specialists, etc). Google Lymes Induced Autism. You say your doctor checked for

metal toxicity.....did they use the UPPA or hair analysis.....or bloodwork. The

results can be very different. Has your son tried doing away with gluten and

casien or have has he been tested for food allergies? Could he be celiac? These

are some of the places I'd start looking: Lymes specialist, DAN for the

UPPA/hair analysis (to detect the body's burden of metal toxicity), testing for

food allergies.> >> > Is he still eating and drinking fine?

Swallowing? (any drooling)> > Since he's 20 how does he feel about what's going

on? Did he> > complain about anything changing? Eyesight more blurry, feeling> >

dizzy, can't do an activity that he previously loved to do? What are> > his

hobbies and are any of them involving athletics? Does he still> > do them? Is

there any area that doesn't appear to be affected? Does> > his recent change in

coordination and speech bother him?> > > > Were there any changes in his life

going back a few years ago when> > you first noticed the changes? Moving for

example? Did he have any> > surgery, more severe illness -high fevers, anything

that would> > involve possible high toxicity including any drugs/vitamins/herbs

he> > may have been put on? Any interest in girls?> > > > When is the last time

he was in theater? Is he still interested? Do> > any of his brothers or sisters

still live with you and your husband> > and if so what do they have to say about

his changes? Also when did you start the fish oils and again which formula and

dosage?> > > > About looking back I can so relate as Dakota, my first son was

the> > one everyone was worried about> >

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/workandfamily.html> > and

Tanner was our " normal healthy baby " > >

http://cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html Looking> > back many of

the things we gave cute nicknames to such as " the> > serious babe " and even

" cherub boy " were descriptions of his oral> > apraxia and his hypotonia -we just

didn't know that until we took him> > to a developmental pediatrician and

pediatric neurologists who> > diagnosed things that his regular pediatrician

overlooked. That's> > what you need -someone who can examine your son and send

him for> > tests if needed to rule out or confirm a diagnosis. Differential> >

diagnosis means looking at every possible reason and finding the> > accurate one

from the group. It doesn't mean " the patient is laying> > down with his eyes

closed and he's not talking or moving -I'm sorry> > to tell you this but the

patient could be dead " When in fact nothing> > else was checked and the patient

is asleep!> > > > I like the suggestion of taking him to a neurologist in a

large> > medical center that specializes in Neurology as Janet suggested. If> >

you let us know what state you are in- which you are close to -we can> >

probably make suggestions as a group.> > > > > > =====> >

[Guest guest]

Please check on the Lyme thing. I have had a few friends get it and

the earlier treated the better. It was a concern in my son's case.

Never give up. Your boy will be well. You must believe that.

>

> Thank you, you are the second person who has suggested Lyme

disease. I am encouraged not to take the neurologists opinion too

seriously as of yet. We had the MRI and yet doesn't want to see him

until Sept.??? This isn't something that can wait/nor should wait

yet more months before we start on a new round of tests. I really

appreciate all of your help.

> Lorene

[Guest guest]

My neighbor's daughter had Lyme's Disease and know that can create

issues left untreated -so list those symptoms below...but based on

all the symptoms -not just the slurred speech -it still could be

possible TBI. Lorene you didn't respond as to when the symptoms

started -before or after his car accident while he was on the bike 4

years ago? Wasn't it around 4 years ago you first noticed some changes but

thought then it was due to his braces?

Apraxia is a neurological disorder and there are many reasons for it

and even more theories as to what causes it in children but in adults

it's most often due to head injury or stroke.

We can all speculate and it's good to be open minded -but Lyme's

is also something you need a good medical doctor to confirm or rule

out as much can be misdiagnosed in regards to this condition

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/l/lyme_disease/misdiag.htm

But again check the symptoms below and run past the doctor.

TBI specifically points to the coordination issue as well as the slurred speech

" Hand-eye coordination often is impaired, which can make people appear to be

clumsy. "

(from TBI symptoms below)

If there's any chance that he has TBI you want to get him into any

therapy to help right away. There are specific therapies for this

which differ from the treatment of Lyme's. I'd still stick with that

new neurologist you plan to take him to and share everything with him.

But again -was the change before or after the accident 4 years ago?

Like Lyme's TBI symptoms may not all show up right away and can

appear subtle at first.

Anyway -here's the symptoms of both conditions. I chose both from Mayo clinic.

Lyme Disease Symptoms

Rash. A small, red bump may appear within a few days to a month,

often at the site of the tick bite — often in your groin, belt area

or behind your knee. It may be warm to the touch and mildly tender.

Over the next few days, the redness expands, forming a rash that may

be as small as your fingertip or as large as 12 inches (30

centimeters) across. It often resembles a bull's-eye, with a red ring

surrounding a clear area and a red center. The rash, called erythema

migrans, is one of the hallmarks of Lyme disease, affecting about 70

percent to 80 percent of infected people. If you're allergic to tick

saliva, redness may develop at the site of a tick bite. The redness

usually fades within a week. This is not the same as erythema

migrans, which tends to expand and get redder over time.

Flu-like symptoms. A fever, chills, fatigue, body aches and a

headache may accompany the rash.

Migratory joint pain. If the infection is not treated, you may

develop bouts of severe joint pain and swelling several weeks to

months after you're infected. Your knees are especially likely to be

affected, but the pain can shift from one joint to another.

Neurological problems. In some cases, inflammation of the membranes

surrounding your brain (meningitis), temporary paralysis of one side

of your face (Bell's palsy), numbness or weakness in your limbs, and

impaired muscle movement may occur weeks, months or even years after

an untreated infection. Memory loss, difficulty concentrating, and

changes in mood or sleep habits also can be symptoms of late-stage

Lyme disease.

Less common signs and symptoms. Some people may experience heart

problems — such as an irregular heartbeat — several weeks after

infection, but this rarely lasts more than a few days or weeks. Eye

inflammation, hepatitis and severe fatigue are possible as well.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/lyme-disease/DS00116/DSECTION=symptoms

traumatic brain injuries/TBI

Some of the complications that can occur with traumatic brain

injuries include:

Coma. A person who is unconscious and unresponsive is in a coma. This

situation typically lasts only a few days or weeks. After this time,

some people gradually awaken, while others enter a vegetative state

or die.

People in a vegetative state often open their eyes and may move,

groan or show reflex responses. Despite this, they are still

unconscious and unaware of their surroundings. Anyone in a vegetative

state for more than a year rarely recovers.

Seizures. Some people who have had a traumatic brain injury will

experience at least one seizure during the first week after the

injury. However, this doesn't appear to increase their chances of

developing epilepsy.

Infections. Skull fractures or penetrating wounds can tear the

membranes (meninges) that surround the brain, letting in bacteria.

Infection of these membranes (meningitis) can be especially dangerous

because of its potential to spread to the rest of the nervous system.

Nerve damage. Injuries to the base of the skull can damage facial

nerves, causing paralysis of facial muscles or damage to the nerves

responsible for eye movements, resulting in double vision.

Cognitive disabilities. Thinking, reasoning, problem solving,

information processing and memory are all cognitive skills. Most

people who have had a severe brain injury will experience cognitive

problems. The most common of these impairments is short-term memory

loss. That means the injured person recalls information from before

the head trauma but has to struggle to learn new information after

the head trauma.

Sensory problems. A persistent ringing in the ears or difficulty

recognizing objects can occur. Hand-eye coordination often is

impaired, which can make people appear to be clumsy. If the part of

the brain that processes taste or smell has been damaged, the person

may perceive a bitter taste or a bad smell. He or she may also have

blind spots or see double.

Difficulty swallowing. A person with a brain injury may need to be

fed through a tube during the early part of his or her recovery.

Language difficulties. Communication problems are common. Some people

who have had brain injuries have trouble with spoken and written

language, while others have problems deciphering nonverbal signals.

Personality changes. Brain injuries typically interfere with impulse

control, so inappropriate behavior is often present during recovery

and rehabilitation. The injured person's unstable emotions and

impaired social skills pose the greatest coping challenge for many

families.

Alzheimer's or Parkinson's disease. A traumatic brain injury appears

to increase the risk of eventually developing Alzheimer's disease

and, to a lesser degree, Parkinson's disease. The higher the

frequency and severity of the injuries, the greater the risk.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/traumatic-brain-injury/DS00552/DSECTION=complic\

ations

=====

[Guest guest]

I noticed a few of the speech issues before his accident, they were very minor

and seemed to affect him mostly when he was nervous and in a group of people. I

believed it was just some social anxiety. I did not notice the clumsiness

before the accident or the other symptoms, it all gets so blurry trying to

remember the exact times, degrees of effect, etc.. He was taken to the hospital

after the bike accident and they did a ct scan of his head and leg. I was told

all was fine. More to be investigated for sure.

Lorene

@...: kiddietalk@...: Mon, 14

Jul 2008 19:12:48 +0000Subject: [ ] Re: Adult onset dyspraxia?

Please help

My neighbor's daughter had Lyme's Disease and know that can create issues left

untreated -so list those symptoms below...but based on all the symptoms -not

just the slurred speech -it still could be possible TBI. Lorene you didn't

respond as to when the symptoms started -before or after his car accident while

he was on the bike 4 years ago? Wasn't it around 4 years ago you first noticed

some changes but thought then it was due to his braces?Apraxia is a neurological

disorder and there are many reasons for it and even more theories as to what

causes it in children but in adults it's most often due to head injury or

stroke. We can all speculate and it's good to be open minded -but Lyme's is also

something you need a good medical doctor to confirm or rule out as much can be

misdiagnosed in regards to this condition

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/l/lyme_disease/misdiag.htmBut again check the

symptoms below and run past the doctor.TBI specifically points to the

coordination issue as well as the slurred speech " Hand-eye coordination often is

impaired, which can make people appear to be clumsy. " (from TBI symptoms below)If

there's any chance that he has TBI you want to get him into any therapy to help

right away. There are specific therapies for this which differ from the

treatment of Lyme's. I'd still stick with that new neurologist you plan to take

him to and share everything with him. But again -was the change before or after

the accident 4 years ago? Like Lyme's TBI symptoms may not all show up right

away and can appear subtle at first.Anyway -here's the symptoms of both

conditions. I chose both from Mayo clinic.Lyme Disease SymptomsRash. A small,

red bump may appear within a few days to a month, often at the site of the tick

bite — often in your groin, belt area or behind your knee. It may be warm to the

touch and mildly tender. Over the next few days, the redness expands, forming a

rash that may be as small as your fingertip or as large as 12 inches (30

centimeters) across. It often resembles a bull's-eye, with a red ring

surrounding a clear area and a red center. The rash, called erythema migrans, is

one of the hallmarks of Lyme disease, affecting about 70 percent to 80 percent

of infected people. If you're allergic to tick saliva, redness may develop at

the site of a tick bite. The redness usually fades within a week. This is not

the same as erythema migrans, which tends to expand and get redder over time.

Flu-like symptoms. A fever, chills, fatigue, body aches and a headache may

accompany the rash. Migratory joint pain. If the infection is not treated, you

may develop bouts of severe joint pain and swelling several weeks to months

after you're infected. Your knees are especially likely to be affected, but the

pain can shift from one joint to another. Neurological problems. In some cases,

inflammation of the membranes surrounding your brain (meningitis), temporary

paralysis of one side of your face (Bell's palsy), numbness or weakness in your

limbs, and impaired muscle movement may occur weeks, months or even years after

an untreated infection. Memory loss, difficulty concentrating, and changes in

mood or sleep habits also can be symptoms of late-stage Lyme disease. Less

common signs and symptoms. Some people may experience heart problems — such as

an irregular heartbeat — several weeks after infection, but this rarely lasts

more than a few days or weeks. Eye inflammation, hepatitis and severe fatigue

are possible as well.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/lyme-disease/DS00116/DSECTION=symptoms

traumatic brain injuries/TBISome of the complications that can occur with

traumatic brain injuries include:Coma. A person who is unconscious and

unresponsive is in a coma. This situation typically lasts only a few days or

weeks. After this time, some people gradually awaken, while others enter a

vegetative state or die.People in a vegetative state often open their eyes and

may move, groan or show reflex responses. Despite this, they are still

unconscious and unaware of their surroundings. Anyone in a vegetative state for

more than a year rarely recovers.Seizures. Some people who have had a traumatic

brain injury will experience at least one seizure during the first week after

the injury. However, this doesn't appear to increase their chances of developing

epilepsy. Infections. Skull fractures or penetrating wounds can tear the

membranes (meninges) that surround the brain, letting in bacteria. Infection of

these membranes (meningitis) can be especially dangerous because of its

potential to spread to the rest of the nervous system.Nerve damage. Injuries to

the base of the skull can damage facial nerves, causing paralysis of facial

muscles or damage to the nerves responsible for eye movements, resulting in

double vision. Cognitive disabilities. Thinking, reasoning, problem solving,

information processing and memory are all cognitive skills. Most people who have

had a severe brain injury will experience cognitive problems. The most common of

these impairments is short-term memory loss. That means the injured person

recalls information from before the head trauma but has to struggle to learn new

information after the head trauma. Sensory problems. A persistent ringing in the

ears or difficulty recognizing objects can occur. Hand-eye coordination often is

impaired, which can make people appear to be clumsy. If the part of the brain

that processes taste or smell has been damaged, the person may perceive a bitter

taste or a bad smell. He or she may also have blind spots or see double.

Difficulty swallowing. A person with a brain injury may need to be fed through a

tube during the early part of his or her recovery.Language difficulties.

Communication problems are common. Some people who have had brain injuries have

trouble with spoken and written language, while others have problems deciphering

nonverbal signals. Personality changes. Brain injuries typically interfere with

impulse control, so inappropriate behavior is often present during recovery and

rehabilitation. The injured person's unstable emotions and impaired social

skills pose the greatest coping challenge for many families. Alzheimer's or

Parkinson's disease. A traumatic brain injury appears to increase the risk of

eventually developing Alzheimer's disease and, to a lesser degree, Parkinson's

disease. The higher the frequency and severity of the injuries, the greater the

risk.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/traumatic-brain-injury/DS00552/DSECTION=complic\

ations=====

[Guest guest]

Very true and the lymes folks I know (all adults) and one of the

things we saw in my son ( a 3 year old) was specifically not

clumsiness, more of total inability. He passed a second screen but we

will do the big test to be sure. As an aside though antibiotic use

did relieve some of his symptoms. I have been told though for him it

may be an iron absorption thing or malabsorption thing trapping

viruses for him. I am with . Check out all avenues and thoroughly

as you are.

>

> My neighbor's daughter had Lyme's Disease and know that can create

> issues left untreated -so list those symptoms below...but based on

> all the symptoms -not just the slurred speech -it still could be

> possible TBI. Lorene you didn't respond as to when the symptoms

> started -before or after his car accident while he was on the bike 4

> years ago? Wasn't it around 4 years ago you first noticed some

changes but thought then it was due to his braces?

>

> Apraxia is a neurological disorder and there are many reasons for it

> and even more theories as to what causes it in children but in

adults

> it's most often due to head injury or stroke.

>

> We can all speculate and it's good to be open minded -but Lyme's

> is also something you need a good medical doctor to confirm or rule

> out as much can be misdiagnosed in regards to this condition

> http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/l/lyme_disease/misdiag.htm

> But again check the symptoms below and run past the doctor.

> TBI specifically points to the coordination issue as well as the

slurred speech

> " Hand-eye coordination often is impaired, which can make people

appear to be clumsy. "

> (from TBI symptoms below)

>

> If there's any chance that he has TBI you want to get him into any

> therapy to help right away. There are specific therapies for this

> which differ from the treatment of Lyme's. I'd still stick with

that

> new neurologist you plan to take him to and share everything with

him.

>

> But again -was the change before or after the accident 4 years ago?

> Like Lyme's TBI symptoms may not all show up right away and can

> appear subtle at first.

>

> Anyway -here's the symptoms of both conditions. I chose both from

Mayo clinic.

>

> Lyme Disease Symptoms

>

> Rash. A small, red bump may appear within a few days to a month,

> often at the site of the tick bite — often in your groin, belt area

> or behind your knee. It may be warm to the touch and mildly tender.

> Over the next few days, the redness expands, forming a rash that may

> be as small as your fingertip or as large as 12 inches (30

> centimeters) across. It often resembles a bull's-eye, with a red

ring

> surrounding a clear area and a red center. The rash, called erythema

> migrans, is one of the hallmarks of Lyme disease, affecting about 70

> percent to 80 percent of infected people. If you're allergic to tick

> saliva, redness may develop at the site of a tick bite. The redness

> usually fades within a week. This is not the same as erythema

> migrans, which tends to expand and get redder over time.

>

> Flu-like symptoms. A fever, chills, fatigue, body aches and a

> headache may accompany the rash.

>

> Migratory joint pain. If the infection is not treated, you may

> develop bouts of severe joint pain and swelling several weeks to

> months after you're infected. Your knees are especially likely to be

> affected, but the pain can shift from one joint to another.

>

> Neurological problems. In some cases, inflammation of the membranes

> surrounding your brain (meningitis), temporary paralysis of one side

> of your face (Bell's palsy), numbness or weakness in your limbs, and

> impaired muscle movement may occur weeks, months or even years after

> an untreated infection. Memory loss, difficulty concentrating, and

> changes in mood or sleep habits also can be symptoms of late-stage

> Lyme disease.

>

> Less common signs and symptoms. Some people may experience heart

> problems — such as an irregular heartbeat — several weeks after

> infection, but this rarely lasts more than a few days or weeks. Eye

> inflammation, hepatitis and severe fatigue are possible as well.

> http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/lyme-

disease/DS00116/DSECTION=symptoms

>

> traumatic brain injuries/TBI

>

> Some of the complications that can occur with traumatic brain

> injuries include:

>

> Coma. A person who is unconscious and unresponsive is in a coma.

This

> situation typically lasts only a few days or weeks. After this time,

> some people gradually awaken, while others enter a vegetative state

> or die.

>

> People in a vegetative state often open their eyes and may move,

> groan or show reflex responses. Despite this, they are still

> unconscious and unaware of their surroundings. Anyone in a

vegetative

> state for more than a year rarely recovers.

>

> Seizures. Some people who have had a traumatic brain injury will

> experience at least one seizure during the first week after the

> injury. However, this doesn't appear to increase their chances of

> developing epilepsy.

>

> Infections. Skull fractures or penetrating wounds can tear the

> membranes (meninges) that surround the brain, letting in bacteria.

> Infection of these membranes (meningitis) can be especially

dangerous

> because of its potential to spread to the rest of the nervous

system.

>

> Nerve damage. Injuries to the base of the skull can damage facial

> nerves, causing paralysis of facial muscles or damage to the nerves

> responsible for eye movements, resulting in double vision.

>

> Cognitive disabilities. Thinking, reasoning, problem solving,

> information processing and memory are all cognitive skills. Most

> people who have had a severe brain injury will experience cognitive

> problems. The most common of these impairments is short-term memory

> loss. That means the injured person recalls information from before

> the head trauma but has to struggle to learn new information after

> the head trauma.

>

> Sensory problems. A persistent ringing in the ears or difficulty

> recognizing objects can occur. Hand-eye coordination often is

> impaired, which can make people appear to be clumsy. If the part of

> the brain that processes taste or smell has been damaged, the person

> may perceive a bitter taste or a bad smell. He or she may also have

> blind spots or see double.

>

> Difficulty swallowing. A person with a brain injury may need to be

> fed through a tube during the early part of his or her recovery.

>

> Language difficulties. Communication problems are common. Some

people

> who have had brain injuries have trouble with spoken and written

> language, while others have problems deciphering nonverbal signals.

> Personality changes. Brain injuries typically interfere with impulse

> control, so inappropriate behavior is often present during recovery

> and rehabilitation. The injured person's unstable emotions and

> impaired social skills pose the greatest coping challenge for many

> families.

>

> Alzheimer's or Parkinson's disease. A traumatic brain injury appears

> to increase the risk of eventually developing Alzheimer's disease

> and, to a lesser degree, Parkinson's disease. The higher the

> frequency and severity of the injuries, the greater the risk.

> http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/traumatic-brain-

injury/DS00552/DSECTION=complications

>

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lorene!

From everthing I've read TBI and mild TBI/MTBI can go undetected for years

as some symptoms are mild. A CT may not have shown it from what I

have in the clip below -you could see if insurance will cover a SPECT

scan as suggested.

Perhaps it's not MTBI or TBI but wanted to share a bit more on this:

I've had many adults contact CHERAB after head injury or stroke with

what is called adult acquired apraxia -but none with Lyme's Disease.

Even in this group with thousands of members over a close to 10 year

period Lyme's Disease only came up around 20 times and outside of

these most recent only from last year and mainly by just Liz from

what I saw. The heavy metal theory in adult onset apraxia (is there

adult onset autism from heavy metal?!!!) is not known by this group

or the internet from what I could search and if you can't find it on

the internet it's out there!!! I would not waste precious time and

money in that direction as that method isn't even needed by most

children in this group. For your 20 year old who is having these

symptoms I wouldn't trust anyone than one of the top neurologists you

can find and get to.

Here's some information you can look into about what I just wrote:

A persons condition immediately following injury may not always

indicate the seriousness of brain injury. Although most people who

experience an MTBI appear quite normal within hours of injury, new or

lingering symptoms often force them to seek medical assistance later.

Though we can define MTBI, we often cannot detect it and thus are

still far from understanding it. MTBI is the leading misdiagnosed

(often undiagnosed!) health problem in the United States today. Many

people across the nation are being misdiagnosed as suffering from

conditions of depression, learning disabilities, chronic fatigue

syndrome, migraines and seizures: in actual fact, they are suffering

from MTBI.

In post-concussive syndrome, symptoms often appear in clusters and

may last for days, weeks, or longer. Intensified by fear and

uncertainty, this syndrome can interfere with daily life and lead to

frustration and despair, especially when its cause remains unknown.

Unlike brain injuries detected through CAT scan, EEG, and MRI, mild

traumatic brain injury can only be accurately diagnosed through

diagnostic testing that detects nerve cell damage, as in

neuropsychological evaluation - (testing that measures different

aspects of brain function), SPECT scan, Q-EEG or autopsy.

http://www.health-helper.com/brain/about.htm

" Traumatic brain injury is sudden physical damage to the brain. The

damage may be caused by the head forcefully hitting an object such as

the dashboard of a car (closed head injury) or by something passing

through the skull and piercing the brain, as in a gunshot wound

(penetrating head injury). The major causes of head trauma are motor

vehicle accidents. Other causes include falls, sports injuries,

violent crimes, and child abuse...

In addition to focal damage, closed head injuries frequently cause

diffuse brain injuries or damage to several other areas of the brain.

The diffuse damage occurs when the impact of the injury causes the

brain to move back and forth against the inside of the bony skull.

The frontal and temporal lobes of the brain, the major speech and

language areas, often receive the most damage in this way because

they sit in pockets of the skull that allow more room for the brain

to shift and sustain injury. Because these major speech and language

areas often receive damage, communication difficulties frequently

occur following closed head injuries. Other problems may include

voice, swallowing, walking, balance, and coordination difficulties,

as well as changes in the ability to smell and in memory and

cognitive (or thinking) skills...

The speech produced by a person who has traumatic brain injury may be

slow, slurred, and difficult or impossible to understand if the areas

of the brain that control the muscles of the speech mechanism are

damaged. This type of speech problem is called dysarthria. These

individuals may also experience problems swallowing. This is called

dysphagia. Others may have what is called apraxia of speech, a

condition in which strength and coordination of the speech muscles

are unimpaired but the individual experiences difficulty saying words

correctly in a consistent way. For example, someone may repeatedly

stumble on the word " tomorrow " when asked to repeat it, but then be

able to say it in a statement such as, " I'll try to say it again

tomorrow. "

http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/voice/tbrain.htm

Mild Traumatic Brain Injury (MTBI) is characterized by one or more of

the following symptoms: a brief loss of consciousness, loss of memory

immediately before or after the injury, any alteration in mental

state at the time of the accident, or focal neurological deficits. In

many MTBI cases, the person seems fine on the surface, yet continues

to endure chronic functional problems. Some people suffer long-term

effects of MTBI, known as postconcussion syndrome (PCS). Persons

suffering from PCS can experience significant changes in cognition

and personality.

http://www.neuroskills.com/tbi/injury.shtml

Even TBI isn't always easy to diagnose

" Doctors made the diagnosis: traumatic brain injury, a debilitating

ailment that can lurk unrecognized for years. TBI is cropping up more

frequently in soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, where the

concussive force of roadside explosions can harm soldiers' brains

even when they're wearing helmets and body armor.

Because it is often difficult to detect, soldiers can go a decade

without realizing something is seriously wrong. "

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/news/state/070513brains.html

Physical consequences can include:

seizures

muscle weakness or spasticity

double vision or impaired vision

loss of smell or taste

speech impairments such as slow or slurred speech

headaches or migraines

fatigue, increased need for sleep

balance problems

http://www.dana.org/news/brainhealth/detail.aspx?id=9790

And from Dr. Diane Stoler

Welcome!

As a neuropsychologist and board certified health psychologist,

having sustained a stroke and two TBIs, along with two family members

who had multiple strokes and concussions, I can truly appreciate,

from both perspectives, the struggle and anguish of coping with

debilitating health issues.

I have devoted my clinical practice, writings and personal

appearances to serving as an aid to professionals, individuals, and

families coping with difficult challenges. I encourage you to explore

the various resources available on this website.

My mission is not only to inspire and educate but also to engage the

soul and spirit emotionally, mentally and physically in coping and

overcoming health issues.

~ Dr. Diane Stoler

A persons condition immediately following injury may not always

indicate the seriousness of brain injury. Although most people who

experience an MTBI appear quite normal within hours of injury, new or

lingering symptoms often force them to seek medical assistance later.

Though we can define MTBI, we often cannot detect it and thus are

still far from understanding it. MTBI is the leading misdiagnosed

(often undiagnosed!) health problem in the United States today. Many

people across the nation are being misdiagnosed as suffering from

conditions of depression, learning disabilities, chronic fatigue

syndrome, migraines and seizures: in actual fact, they are suffering

from MTBI.

Mild Traumatic Brain Injury

Each year more than 1,000,000 Americans suffer its effects from

automobile accidents, falls, work related accidents, physical

assaults and sports injuries, such as football, hockey and soccer. Of

that number, more than 30,000 children ages 0-19 sustain permanent

disabilities as the result of brain injuries at an estimated lifetime

cost of over 4 million dollars per person. Children are especially at

risk in the afternoon after being dismissed from school. 42.6% of

child injuries occur on roads, 34.3% at homes and 6.6% in recreation

areas. Young athletes are especially prone to MTBI. As the mother of

three teenage boys, I know my sons are in the highest risk category

for MTBI. A child is four times more likely to be seriously injured

in a bicycle or roller-blading accident than to be kidnapped by a

stranger. A child active in sports may be hit on the head or fall and

be rendered briefly unconscious.

The child may get up and play the remainder of the game, and only

months later begin to experience symptoms of brain injury, called

post-concussive syndrome.

http://www.health-helper.com/brain/about.htm

=====

[Guest guest]

wow, I was reading this and can't believe how much his symptoms fit. He was

thrown onto the top of an SUV and then rolled off and hit the road. He was not

wearing a helmet. I was just so thankful that he was OK, as I was told. Yes,

the thought has crossed my mind in the past few years but I kept telling myself

that the hospital would have picked up something on the ct scan. I am going to

go over this info with the neurologist. This would be a real answer to prayer

and something to work with. I will let you know.

thanks,

Lorene

>

> A persons condition immediately following injury may not always

> indicate the seriousness of brain injury. Although most people who

> experience an MTBI appear quite normal within hours of injury, new or

> lingering symptoms often force them to seek medical assistance later.

> Though we can define MTBI, we often cannot detect it and thus are

> still far from understanding it. MTBI is the leading misdiagnosed

> (often undiagnosed!) health problem in the United States today. Many

> people across the nation are being misdiagnosed as suffering from

> conditions of depression, learning disabilities, chronic fatigue

> syndrome, migraines and seizures: in actual fact, they are suffering

> from MTBI.

>

> In post-concussive syndrome, symptoms often appear in clusters and

> may last for days, weeks, or longer. Intensified by fear and

> uncertainty, this syndrome can interfere with daily life and lead to

> frustration and despair, especially when its cause remains unknown.

> Unlike brain injuries detected through CAT scan, EEG, and MRI, mild

> traumatic brain injury can only be accurately diagnosed through

> diagnostic testing that detects nerve cell damage, as in

> neuropsychological evaluation - (testing that measures different

> aspects of brain function), SPECT scan, Q-EEG or autopsy.

> http://www.health-helper.com/brain/about.htm

>

> " Traumatic brain injury is sudden physical damage to the brain. The

> damage may be caused by the head forcefully hitting an object such as

> the dashboard of a car (closed head injury) or by something passing

> through the skull and piercing the brain, as in a gunshot wound

> (penetrating head injury). The major causes of head trauma are motor

> vehicle accidents. Other causes include falls, sports injuries,

> violent crimes, and child abuse...

>

> In addition to focal damage, closed head injuries frequently cause

> diffuse brain injuries or damage to several other areas of the brain.

> The diffuse damage occurs when the impact of the injury causes the

> brain to move back and forth against the inside of the bony skull.

> The frontal and temporal lobes of the brain, the major speech and

> language areas, often receive the most damage in this way because

> they sit in pockets of the skull that allow more room for the brain

> to shift and sustain injury. Because these major speech and language

> areas often receive damage, communication difficulties frequently

> occur following closed head injuries. Other problems may include

> voice, swallowing, walking, balance, and coordination difficulties,

> as well as changes in the ability to smell and in memory and

> cognitive (or thinking) skills...

>

> The speech produced by a person who has traumatic brain injury may be

> slow, slurred, and difficult or impossible to understand if the areas

> of the brain that control the muscles of the speech mechanism are

> damaged. This type of speech problem is called dysarthria. These

> individuals may also experience problems swallowing. This is called

> dysphagia. Others may have what is called apraxia of speech, a

> condition in which strength and coordination of the speech muscles

> are unimpaired but the individual experiences difficulty saying words

> correctly in a consistent way. For example, someone may repeatedly

> stumble on the word " tomorrow " when asked to repeat it, but then be

> able to say it in a statement such as, " I'll try to say it again

> tomorrow. "

> http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/voice/tbrain.htm

>

>

> Mild Traumatic Brain Injury (MTBI) is characterized by one or more of

> the following symptoms: a brief loss of consciousness, loss of memory

> immediately before or after the injury, any alteration in mental

> state at the time of the accident, or focal neurological deficits. In

> many MTBI cases, the person seems fine on the surface, yet continues

> to endure chronic functional problems. Some people suffer long-term

> effects of MTBI, known as postconcussion syndrome (PCS). Persons

> suffering from PCS can experience significant changes in cognition

> and personality.

> http://www.neuroskills.com/tbi/injury.shtml

>

>

> Even TBI isn't always easy to diagnose

>

> " Doctors made the diagnosis: traumatic brain injury, a debilitating

> ailment that can lurk unrecognized for years. TBI is cropping up more

> frequently in soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, where the

> concussive force of roadside explosions can harm soldiers' brains

> even when they're wearing helmets and body armor.

> Because it is often difficult to detect, soldiers can go a decade

> without realizing something is seriously wrong. "

> http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/news/state/070513brains.html

>

> Physical consequences can include:

>

> seizures

> muscle weakness or spasticity

> double vision or impaired vision

> loss of smell or taste

> speech impairments such as slow or slurred speech

> headaches or migraines

> fatigue, increased need for sleep

> balance problems

> http://www.dana.org/news/brainhealth/detail.aspx?id=9790

>

> And from Dr. Diane Stoler

>

> Welcome!

>

> As a neuropsychologist and board certified health psychologist,

> having sustained a stroke and two TBIs, along with two family members

> who had multiple strokes and concussions, I can truly appreciate,

> from both perspectives, the struggle and anguish of coping with

> debilitating health issues.

>

> I have devoted my clinical practice, writings and personal

> appearances to serving as an aid to professionals, individuals, and

> families coping with difficult challenges. I encourage you to explore

> the various resources available on this website.

>

> My mission is not only to inspire and educate but also to engage the

> soul and spirit emotionally, mentally and physically in coping and

> overcoming health issues.

>

> ~ Dr. Diane Stoler

>

> A persons condition immediately following injury may not always

> indicate the seriousness of brain injury. Although most people who

> experience an MTBI appear quite normal within hours of injury, new or

> lingering symptoms often force them to seek medical assistance later.

> Though we can define MTBI, we often cannot detect it and thus are

> still far from understanding it. MTBI is the leading misdiagnosed

> (often undiagnosed!) health problem in the United States today. Many

> people across the nation are being misdiagnosed as suffering from

> conditions of depression, learning disabilities, chronic fatigue

> syndrome, migraines and seizures: in actual fact, they are suffering

> from MTBI.

>

> Mild Traumatic Brain Injury

> Each year more than 1,000,000 Americans suffer its effects from

> automobile accidents, falls, work related accidents, physical

> assaults and sports injuries, such as football, hockey and soccer. Of

> that number, more than 30,000 children ages 0-19 sustain permanent

> disabilities as the result of brain injuries at an estimated lifetime

> cost of over 4 million dollars per person. Children are especially at

> risk in the afternoon after being dismissed from school. 42.6% of

> child injuries occur on roads, 34.3% at homes and 6.6% in recreation

> areas. Young athletes are especially prone to MTBI. As the mother of

> three teenage boys, I know my sons are in the highest risk category

> for MTBI. A child is four times more likely to be seriously injured

> in a bicycle or roller-blading accident than to be kidnapped by a

> stranger. A child active in sports may be hit on the head or fall and

> be rendered briefly unconscious.

>

> The child may get up and play the remainder of the game, and only

> months later begin to experience symptoms of brain injury, called

> post-concussive syndrome.

> http://www.health-helper.com/brain/about.htm

>

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Not that your son's neurologist has to know of any of these tests -

but thought you'd like to have this list of tests as a simple go to

reference of what each test can do and why. This also has a list of

the other types of professionals you may want to take your son to

once you know if this is what you are dealing with for therapy and

rehabilitation. PS -from what I read it's very good nothing showed

up in the CT!! Have to say again -there's so much hope Lorene!

Mild Traumatic Brain Injury (MTBI):

Identification, Assessment and Treatment

Assessment and Treatment

The most effective way to evaluate a person with a possible MTBI is

through the comprehensive use of neurorehabilitation specialists.

This team of specialists includes neurology, physiatry, neuro-

ophthalmology, developmental optometry, neuropsychology, neuro-

otology, physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech pathology,

and counseling/psychotherapy. This level of expertise in conjunction

with a good case manager, brought together soon after the person is

injured, is usually very effective in detecting and treating MTBI,

before the situation can deteriorate or become a chronic,

debilitating condition.

Neurodiagnostic Tools

CT (computerized tomography): In the emergency department, CT is

primarily used to evaluate acute TBI. CT scans detect acute hematomas

and other areas of hemorrhage.

MRI (magnetic resonance image): This tool provides greater definition

of lesions than the CT scan. Cellular density as well as water

diffusion and blood perfusion is assessed. MRI is the best tool to

evaluate neurological changes in the post-acute phase of recovery.

fMRI (functional magnetic resonance image): This is a new diagnostic

tool that produces brain mapping to demonstrate metabolic changes in

brain tissue as the person performs functional tasks (i.e., reading,

listening, mental math, imaging, etc.). It has been recently used in

studies correlating neuropsychological findings with metabolic-

perfusion changes in the brain following MTBI.

PET (positron emission tomography): This imaging technique provides a

view of the brain's metabolic status. Reduced metabolism has been

found in the frontal and temporal lobes after some cases of MTBI.

PET scan data is also consistent with results from neuropsychological

evaluations. It has also been found that minor TBI without loss of

consciousness can result in significant, functional brain damage.

SPECT (single-photon emission computerized tomography): This tool

detects areas of decreased cerebral blood flow, which assists in

diagnosing persistent post-concussion syndrome beyond three months

post-injury. SPECT is less expensive, less complex, and more

available than a PET scan. SPECT neuroimaging provides evidence of

the type of damage that often leads to post-traumatic headaches.

The literature provides ample information regarding the use of CT,

MRI, SPECT, and PET scans. In general, MRI and SPECT imaging provide

greater definition. When neurological examinations are not consistent

with CT-scan findings, an MRI is often beneficial in detecting axonal-

shear injuries not found on a CT scan. It has also been shown that if

an abnormality is found on a CT scan a " complicated " MTBI is

involved. This finding signifies a worse neurobehavioral recovery

profile compared to other MTBI.

Standard EEG (electroencephalogram) and QEEG (spectral

analysis/quantitative EEG): The EEG measures electrical activity of

the brain. Seizures can occur following MTBI. Occasional findings

indicate evidence of partial, complex seizures. In recent years, the

QEEG has been gaining favor in the diagnostic evaluation of MTBI by

using high-speed computers to quantitatively measure brain activity.

Some have proposed the " marriage " of the MRI's capacity to view

structural features of the brain with the QEEG's capacity to measure

electrical and magnetic features to determine the results of rapid

acceleration/deceleration-type injuries. One hundred percent accuracy

has been reported in QEEG's ability to differentiate between normal

brain activity and MTBI, up to one year post-injury. Significant

effects have been located in the frontal lobes and posterior areas of

the brain. These findings thus indicate that " time does not always

heal. "

There are also neurodiagnostic tools to detect vestibular dysfunction

and related visuomotor (oculomotor) abnormalities. It is important to

determine peripheral vs. mixed dysfunction in order to provide

treatment guidelines.

ENG (electronystagmography): The ENG, combined with calorics

(irrigating the ear with warm and then cold water), detects

vestibular system dysfunction via measurements of nystagmus

(constant, involuntary eye movement). ENG evaluation should also

include a variety of eye-movement and eye-position subtests (e.g.,

saccades, gaze, tracking, and Dix-Hallpike).

VOR (vestibulo-ocular reflex): This reflex represents the neuronal

connection between the semicircular canals in the peripheral

vestibular system and the vestibular nuclei in the brainstem. A VOR

evaluation assists in detecting peripheral vs. central vestibular-

system damage; thus, determining the proper treatment and educational

approaches.

VAT (vestibular autorotation test): The VAT is a 15-second,

computerized test that monitors the vestibulo-ocular reflex during

natural motion. Many evaluators now recommend the VAT instead of the

ENG. The VAT provides physiological function information in two

dimensions (the ENG provides information in only one dimension).

Other diagnostic tools used to measure neuronal dysfunction are those

based on brainstem-evoked responses: BAER, BVER, and SSER. Evoked-

response tests are helpful in assessing persons with possible

auditory or vision problems or dizziness of central, rather than

peripheral, origin. BAER is occasionally combined with the ENG and

calorics to assess vestibular dysfunction, as well as some eye

movement disorders, resulting from MTBI.

Polysomnography evaluates the pattern and type of sleep disturbance

such as nocturnal seizures, sleep apnea (temporary cessation of

breathing), or narcolepsy (recurrent, involuntary, daytime sleep).

Determination of the specific, underlying causes helps direct the

appropriate treatment.

http://www.neuroskills.com/edu/ceumtbi10.shtml

=====

[Guest guest]

I have " stuff " and have had symptoms all my life that would speak to

dyspraxia. Just in body, no language stuff. High pain tolerance,

pidgeon toe, flat foot. 3 concussions. As an adult numbness down the

right side that would have made me seem clumsy but I got around it. I

think though that is metabolic. sublingual B12 gets at some of it as

does vitamin C and yeast treatment. Bottom line, nutrients not

getting where they are supposed to affects my nervous system. CT, MRI

and neurological testing failed to pick it up. If the same happens to

your son I suggest looking at the apraxia labs with a good GI:

message # 52143 i think. If that is the wrong one tell me and I will

revise. You will get your boy back. Thanks to Dr. we got my

life back and my kids are doing well. Stay with this board, listen,

ask questions and talk to your doctors. You will gret him back.

> >

> > Hi Lorene!

> >

> > From everthing I've read TBI and mild TBI/MTBI can go undetected

for years

> > as some symptoms are mild. A CT may not have shown it from what I

> > have in the clip below -you could see if insurance will cover a

SPECT

> > scan as suggested.

> >

> > Perhaps it's not MTBI or TBI but wanted to share a bit more on

this:

[Guest guest]

Just to jump in here. The Lymes stuff is new. Maybe the past few

years they are connecting it to delays. Tested for in autism by DANs.

The metabolic neuro tested it for us. I doubt it would come up in

apraxia much not so much because it is or is not related but because

it is hard enough to get someone who knows apraxia then also to

connect it to Lymes.

I tried to read on Lymes only because someone I met here had an ASD

son with Lymes and had a histiry illnesswise to my son but the delays

were different. My boy leaned more toward apraxia and my daughter

toward Aspergers. Some docs, not just DANs, are starting to look at

Lymes as some sort of collection of symptoms. There are viral

theories, transfers between family member theories and theories that

go beyond ticks. Theories, not facts thouhg. Still, a screen is an

easy test.

>

> A persons condition immediately following injury may not always

> indicate the seriousness of brain injury. Although most people who

> experience an MTBI appear quite normal within hours of injury, new

or

> lingering symptoms often force them to seek medical assistance

later.

> Though we can define MTBI, we often cannot detect it and thus are

> still far from understanding it. MTBI is the leading misdiagnosed

> (often undiagnosed!) health problem in the United States today. Many

> people across the nation are being misdiagnosed as suffering from

> conditions of depression, learning disabilities, chronic fatigue

> syndrome, migraines and seizures: in actual fact, they are suffering

> from MTBI.

>

> In post-concussive syndrome, symptoms often appear in clusters and

> may last for days, weeks, or longer. Intensified by fear and

> uncertainty, this syndrome can interfere with daily life and lead to

> frustration and despair, especially when its cause remains unknown.

> Unlike brain injuries detected through CAT scan, EEG, and MRI, mild

> traumatic brain injury can only be accurately diagnosed through

> diagnostic testing that detects nerve cell damage, as in

> neuropsychological evaluation - (testing that measures different

> aspects of brain function), SPECT scan, Q-EEG or autopsy.

> http://www.health-helper.com/brain/about.htm

>

> " Traumatic brain injury is sudden physical damage to the brain. The

> damage may be caused by the head forcefully hitting an object such

as

> the dashboard of a car (closed head injury) or by something passing

> through the skull and piercing the brain, as in a gunshot wound

> (penetrating head injury). The major causes of head trauma are motor

> vehicle accidents. Other causes include falls, sports injuries,

> violent crimes, and child abuse...

>

> In addition to focal damage, closed head injuries frequently cause

> diffuse brain injuries or damage to several other areas of the

brain.

> The diffuse damage occurs when the impact of the injury causes the

> brain to move back and forth against the inside of the bony skull.

> The frontal and temporal lobes of the brain, the major speech and

> language areas, often receive the most damage in this way because

> they sit in pockets of the skull that allow more room for the brain

> to shift and sustain injury. Because these major speech and language

> areas often receive damage, communication difficulties frequently

> occur following closed head injuries. Other problems may include

> voice, swallowing, walking, balance, and coordination difficulties,

> as well as changes in the ability to smell and in memory and

> cognitive (or thinking) skills...

>

> The speech produced by a person who has traumatic brain injury may

be

> slow, slurred, and difficult or impossible to understand if the

areas

> of the brain that control the muscles of the speech mechanism are

> damaged. This type of speech problem is called dysarthria. These

> individuals may also experience problems swallowing. This is called

> dysphagia. Others may have what is called apraxia of speech, a

> condition in which strength and coordination of the speech muscles

> are unimpaired but the individual experiences difficulty saying

words

> correctly in a consistent way. For example, someone may repeatedly

> stumble on the word " tomorrow " when asked to repeat it, but then be

> able to say it in a statement such as, " I'll try to say it again

> tomorrow. "

> http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/voice/tbrain.htm

>

>

> Mild Traumatic Brain Injury (MTBI) is characterized by one or more

of

> the following symptoms: a brief loss of consciousness, loss of

memory

> immediately before or after the injury, any alteration in mental

> state at the time of the accident, or focal neurological deficits.

In

> many MTBI cases, the person seems fine on the surface, yet continues

> to endure chronic functional problems. Some people suffer long-term

> effects of MTBI, known as postconcussion syndrome (PCS). Persons

> suffering from PCS can experience significant changes in cognition

> and personality.

> http://www.neuroskills.com/tbi/injury.shtml

>

>

> Even TBI isn't always easy to diagnose

>

> " Doctors made the diagnosis: traumatic brain injury, a debilitating

> ailment that can lurk unrecognized for years. TBI is cropping up

more

> frequently in soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, where the

> concussive force of roadside explosions can harm soldiers' brains

> even when they're wearing helmets and body armor.

> Because it is often difficult to detect, soldiers can go a decade

> without realizing something is seriously wrong. "

> http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/news/state/070513brains.html

>

> Physical consequences can include:

>

> seizures

> muscle weakness or spasticity

> double vision or impaired vision

> loss of smell or taste

> speech impairments such as slow or slurred speech

> headaches or migraines

> fatigue, increased need for sleep

> balance problems

> http://www.dana.org/news/brainhealth/detail.aspx?id=9790

>

> And from Dr. Diane Stoler

>

> Welcome!

>

> As a neuropsychologist and board certified health psychologist,

> having sustained a stroke and two TBIs, along with two family

members

> who had multiple strokes and concussions, I can truly appreciate,

> from both perspectives, the struggle and anguish of coping with

> debilitating health issues.

>

> I have devoted my clinical practice, writings and personal

> appearances to serving as an aid to professionals, individuals, and

> families coping with difficult challenges. I encourage you to

explore

> the various resources available on this website.

>

> My mission is not only to inspire and educate but also to engage the

> soul and spirit emotionally, mentally and physically in coping and

> overcoming health issues.

>

> ~ Dr. Diane Stoler

>

> A persons condition immediately following injury may not always

> indicate the seriousness of brain injury. Although most people who

> experience an MTBI appear quite normal within hours of injury, new

or

> lingering symptoms often force them to seek medical assistance

later.

> Though we can define MTBI, we often cannot detect it and thus are

> still far from understanding it. MTBI is the leading misdiagnosed

> (often undiagnosed!) health problem in the United States today. Many

> people across the nation are being misdiagnosed as suffering from

> conditions of depression, learning disabilities, chronic fatigue

> syndrome, migraines and seizures: in actual fact, they are suffering

> from MTBI.

>

> Mild Traumatic Brain Injury

> Each year more than 1,000,000 Americans suffer its effects from

> automobile accidents, falls, work related accidents, physical

> assaults and sports injuries, such as football, hockey and soccer.

Of

> that number, more than 30,000 children ages 0-19 sustain permanent

> disabilities as the result of brain injuries at an estimated

lifetime

> cost of over 4 million dollars per person. Children are especially

at

> risk in the afternoon after being dismissed from school. 42.6% of

> child injuries occur on roads, 34.3% at homes and 6.6% in recreation

> areas. Young athletes are especially prone to MTBI. As the mother of

> three teenage boys, I know my sons are in the highest risk category

> for MTBI. A child is four times more likely to be seriously injured

> in a bicycle or roller-blading accident than to be kidnapped by a

> stranger. A child active in sports may be hit on the head or fall

and

> be rendered briefly unconscious.

>

> The child may get up and play the remainder of the game, and only

> months later begin to experience symptoms of brain injury, called

> post-concussive syndrome.

> http://www.health-helper.com/brain/about.htm

>

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

-

Is the SPECT Scan the one Dr. Amen's clinics use?

L

[Guest guest]

Liz it's not only the test but who reads it. I don't know anything

about Dr. Amen -but found that he's a bit controversial and was

attacked by Salon.com in the article " Brain Scam "

http://www.salon.com/mwt/mind_reader/2008/05/12/daniel_amen/print.html

Dr. Amen's response to the article " Brain Scam "

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2008/05/12/amen_response/print.html

" Burton responds: Dr. Amen's comments are further evidence for

my article's position. "

You can get a SPECT scan in a radiology department at many

hospitals. I had Dr. Nolan Altman who is Chief of Radiology at the

Miami Children's Hospital

http://www.mch.com/medicalServices/findPhysician/physicianDetails.aspx?doctorID=\

671 and works through the Miami Children's Brain Institute

https://braininstitute.mch.com/wiki/Nolan_Altman speak about his

study Right brained dominance in late talkers

http://www.cherab.org/news/nc2003-conference.html ...but he's done many

studies using SPECT that are published and from what I know about him

would highly recommend him

http://radiology.rsnajnls.org/cgi/content/full/229/3/651

I would stick to doctors like Dr. Altman -but that's me. (and if

anyone sees him tell him I said hi!)

=====

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for the response. Amen is controversial I hear but his books are

good. I use them for the sound nutrition and therapeutic ideas. It is

always that way. Many a good doc makes a finding and becomes a slick

marketer. Not all docs have the principles of Dr. . Sad.

I may very well chase a Spect Scan at an appropriate facility for me.

Thankyou to the brave mom who posted about her son. It helped us here a

lot.

Liz