Guest guest Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 http://www.naturalnews.com/025433.html New research published in the journal Pediatrics reveals that the ADHD drugs prescribed to millions of children are causing them to experience frightening hallucinations. Children on these drugs hallucinated that snakes and bugs were crawling all over them, says Reuters, and some kids taking the drugs experience other bizarre psychotic side effects such as thinking they ran into a wall and falling to the ground even when no wall was present. ADHD drugs, of course, are powerful psychotropic mind-altering chemicals that are often molecularly identical to street drugs. The industry of psychiatry is virtually owned by Big Pharma, which hopes to drug every child, teenager and adult with at least one mind-altering medication. The drugs reviewed in this study include: Ritalin and Focalin XR (Novartis), Adderall XR and Daytrana patch (Shire), Concerta ( & ), Strattera (Eli Lilly), Metadate CD (Celltech Pharmaceuticals) and Provigil (Cephalon). Researchers noticed that only children taking these drugs suffered from hallucinations. Those taking placebo had no hallucinations, and the children who stopped taking ADHD drugs saw their hallucinations cease. Reuters reports that " …FDA researchers urged doctors to discuss the potential side effects with parents and children to help ease their anxiety if such symptoms should occur. " So instead of getting their kids off these drugs, the FDA thinks parents and kids just need to " talk about the hallucinations " to ease their anxiety. And if that's not enough, I suppose, there are anti-anxiety drugs they can both take in order to avoid getting too uptight about the fact that their children are on hallucinogenic drugs. Stop the insanity! I'm just going to come right out and say the obvious: These children are tripping out on hallucinogenic, mind-altering street drugs. This isn't " treatment " for some genuine health problem; it's a legalized mass-drugging campaign that's permanently harming the brains of children while earning sick profits for Big Pharma. The psychiatric pill pushers have managed to turn a generation of children into druggies who are now demonstrating the same symptoms as a street junkie burnout. And rather than trying to get kids OFF these drugs, the FDA, Big Pharma and modern psychiatrists are doing everything in their power to put MORE kids on these dangerous, hallucinogenic drugs! That this continues in America today is outrageous. In a nation that spends billions of dollars on the so-called " War on Drugs " -- see the Drug War Clock at http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm -- to ignore the mass drugging of its own children with hallucinogenic street drugs relabeled as " medication " is unconscionable. If there's really a War on Drugs, why doesn't that war target the biggest drug pushers of all? Big Pharma has put more kids on drugs than any street corner crack dealer could ever hope to achieve. In fact, the entire industry of psychiatric medicine is little more than a legalized drug dealing network that hides behind the jargon of " medicine " and " therapy. " Mind-numbed parents lead to drugged children It's not just the industry that's to blame on all this, either: Parents who allow their children to be drugged with these hallucinogenic ADHD drugs are just as much a part of the problem. In the same households where parents are adamantly restricting their child's use of pot or alcohol, they will literally feed that same kid dose after dose of hallucinogenic street drugs on the advice of a psychiatric medicine quack who's on the take from Big Pharma. What are they thinking? Say no to drugs, but say yes to hallucinogenic psychotropic drugs if a corrupt psychiatrist tells you your kid needs them? Somehow, when speed is labeled under Big Pharma's brand names, it eludes all rational thinking by parents, doctors, pharmacists and drug war zealots. It is one of the largest sectors of the hallucinogenic drug trade in America, and yet it goes completely unnoticed by virtually everyone. My latest hip-hop song takes a shot at mind-altering medications with some disturbing, uncensored lyrics. Listen to " SSRIs - S.S.R.Lies " here: http://www.naturalnews.com/SSRIs_S_... The ugly truth about the War on Drugs The War on Drugs, of course, was never really about ending drug use in the first place. It was about eliminating the competition for Big Pharma, making sure kids get off generic black market drugs and get onto brand-name Big Pharma drugs. To legitimize this mass drugging of children, the industry of modern psychiatry was created, with all its imaginary (hallucinated?) disorders and dysfunctions used to befuddle the public with seemingly intelligent-sounding technical jargon. It's all just drug-pushing psychobabble, of course. Disorders like ADHD are purely fictional, having no basis in reality whatsoever, and the brain shrinkage pointed to by psychiatrists who claim ADHD causes stunted growth is actually the result of the amphetamine drugs they put the kids on. It is well documented that drugs like Ritalin cause stunted grown and reduced brain size (http://www.naturalnews.com/021944.html). The degree of quackery present in the psychiatric industry today is simply staggering. And to think that mainstream doctors defend this quackery is yet more evidence that modern medicine has nothing whatsoever to do with actual science; it's all based on a Cult of Pharmacology where all drugs are considered good and necessary, regardless of the mountain of evidence showing them to be dangerous and medically useless. This is where I have to challenge all the so-called " skeptics " out there who attack natural medicine. These skeptics and self-proclaimed quack observers are, in fact, among the greatest quacks of all. Why? Because they aren't skeptical in the least about psychiatric medicine! The skeptics are quacks Where is the skepticism about this home-grown brand of legalized drug pushing? Where are all the intelligent questions demanding proof that ADHD is a genuine disease and not just something made up to sell more drugs? The skeptics are silent when it comes to psychiatric medicine, and in their silence they reveal themselves to be quacks. Logic, reason and scientific evidence are all thrown out the window on the subject of psychiatric disorders. The most rational-sounding skeptics are instantly transformed into psychobabble-spouting quacks who defend the indefensible -- the mass drugging of children with powerful hallucinogenic street drugs as " treatment " for some imaginary disease. Sure, the skeptics will attack meditation, crystals, prayer, intention, chiropractic care and even herbal medicine (all of which can be healing, by the way), but when it comes to the loopy loose logic of psychiatric medicine inventing diseases and drugging up the children with hallucinogenic amphetamines, they swallow the whole thing without blinking an eye! So much for the credibility of the so-called skeptics and quack busters. It turns out they're quacks themselves. They've simply subscribed to their own form of quackery: Drugs and surgery for all! The quacks are on crack, and they're supporting an industry that hands out speed to the children. Meanwhile, the War on Drugs fills the prisons with people who smoked a little weed while completely ignoring the psychiatric pill pushers. Crazy, huh? I'm beginning to thinking everybody's on drugs! Just remember, folks: If you want to sell drugs to kids, just get FDA approval first. It keeps the DEA off your back and fools parents into thinking your hallucinogenic drugs are " medicine. " About the author: Mike is a natural health researcher and author with a mission to teach personal and planetary health to the public He is a prolific writer and has published thousands of articles, interviews, reports and consumer guides, impacting the lives of millions of readers around the world who are experiencing phenomenal health benefits from reading his articles. is an honest, independent journalist and accepts no money or commissions on the third-party products he writes about or the companies he promotes. In 2007, launched EcoLEDs, a manufacturer of mercury-free, energy-efficient LED lighting products that save electricity and help prevent global warming. He's also a successful software entrepreneur, having founded a well known email marketing software company whose technology currently powers the NaturalNews email newsletters. volunteers his time to serve as the executive director of the Consumer Wellness Center, a 501©3 non-profit organization, and pursues hobbies such as Pilates, Capoeira, nature macrophotography and organic gardening. Known on the 'net as 'the Health Ranger,' shares his ethics, mission statements and personal health statistics at www.HealthRanger.org Love, Gabby. :0) http://stemcellforautism.blogspot.com/ " I know of nobody who is purely Autistic or purely neurotypical. Even God had some Autistic moments, which is why the planets all spin. " ~ Jerry Newport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Seriously??? I hope we're supposed to laugh at this, and not agree with it. From the abstract of the article in Pediatrics (located here: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/123/2/611): " A total of 11 psychosis/mania adverse events occurred during 743 person-years of double-blind treatment with these drugs... " ELEVEN. Events. Not even that 11 children had repeated events. There were 11 instances of psychosis/mania adverse events. Of course, it's good to know, and terrible for those kids, and important to address. But Mike would have you believe that every child taking an ADHD medication is having these: " the ADHD drugs prescribed to millions of children are causing them to experience frightening hallucinations. Children on these drugs hallucinated... " He insinuates that any medication prescribed by any psychiatrist may as well be crack cocaine: " ...psychobabble-spouting quacks who defend the indefensible -- the mass drugging of children with powerful hallucinogenic street drugs as " treatment " for some imaginary disease. " I wouldn't even be responding, except I'm afraid there are people out there who might listen to him. Sigh. He says, " Disorders like ADHD are purely fictional, having no basis in reality whatsoever... " He's as bad as Savage, who said autistic kids just needed a good spank to make them shape up and stop being brats. Sigh again. I'm sorry, I'm sure I've offended someone, if not many of you...that wasn't my intention. It just irritates the crap out of me when people take one problem associated with anything (not just medicine) and twist it into their own extreme version of " truth, " dragging sincerely concerned people with them. Some drugs do have negative side effects. Absolutely. But that doesn't make the whole field " a legalized mass-drugging campaign that's permanently harming the brains of children while earning sick profits for Big Pharma. " Jeesh. Carole > > http://www.naturalnews.com/025433.html > > New research published in the journal Pediatrics reveals that the ADHD drugs prescribed to millions of children are causing them to experience frightening hallucinations. Children on these drugs hallucinated that snakes and bugs were crawling all over them, says Reuters, and some kids taking the drugs experience other bizarre psychotic side effects such as thinking they ran into a wall and falling to the ground even when no wall was present. > > ADHD drugs, of course, are powerful psychotropic mind-altering chemicals that are often molecularly identical to street drugs. The industry of psychiatry is virtually owned by Big Pharma, which hopes to drug every child, teenager and adult with at least one mind- altering medication. > > The drugs reviewed in this study include: Ritalin and Focalin XR (Novartis), Adderall XR and Daytrana patch (Shire), Concerta ( & ), Strattera (Eli Lilly), Metadate CD (Celltech Pharmaceuticals) and Provigil (Cephalon). > > Researchers noticed that only children taking these drugs suffered from hallucinations. Those taking placebo had no hallucinations, and the children who stopped taking ADHD drugs saw their hallucinations cease. > > Reuters reports that " …FDA researchers urged doctors to discuss the potential side effects with parents and children to help ease their anxiety if such symptoms should occur. " So instead of getting their kids off these drugs, the FDA thinks parents and kids just need to " talk about the hallucinations " to ease their anxiety. > > And if that's not enough, I suppose, there are anti-anxiety drugs they can both take in order to avoid getting too uptight about the fact that their children are on hallucinogenic drugs. > > > Stop the insanity! > I'm just going to come right out and say the obvious: These children are tripping out on hallucinogenic, mind-altering street drugs. This isn't " treatment " for some genuine health problem; it's a legalized mass-drugging campaign that's permanently harming the brains of children while earning sick profits for Big Pharma. > > The psychiatric pill pushers have managed to turn a generation of children into druggies who are now demonstrating the same symptoms as a street junkie burnout. And rather than trying to get kids OFF these drugs, the FDA, Big Pharma and modern psychiatrists are doing everything in their power to put MORE kids on these dangerous, hallucinogenic drugs! > > That this continues in America today is outrageous. In a nation that spends billions of dollars on the so-called " War on Drugs " -- see the Drug War Clock at http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm -- to ignore the mass drugging of its own children with hallucinogenic street drugs relabeled as " medication " is unconscionable. > > If there's really a War on Drugs, why doesn't that war target the biggest drug pushers of all? Big Pharma has put more kids on drugs than any street corner crack dealer could ever hope to achieve. In fact, the entire industry of psychiatric medicine is little more than a legalized drug dealing network that hides behind the jargon of " medicine " and " therapy. " > > > Mind-numbed parents lead to drugged children > It's not just the industry that's to blame on all this, either: Parents who allow their children to be drugged with these hallucinogenic ADHD drugs are just as much a part of the problem. In the same households where parents are adamantly restricting their child's use of pot or alcohol, they will literally feed that same kid dose after dose of hallucinogenic street drugs on the advice of a psychiatric medicine quack who's on the take from Big Pharma. > > What are they thinking? Say no to drugs, but say yes to hallucinogenic psychotropic drugs if a corrupt psychiatrist tells you your kid needs them? > > Somehow, when speed is labeled under Big Pharma's brand names, it eludes all rational thinking by parents, doctors, pharmacists and drug war zealots. It is one of the largest sectors of the hallucinogenic drug trade in America, and yet it goes completely unnoticed by virtually everyone. > > My latest hip-hop song takes a shot at mind-altering medications with some disturbing, uncensored lyrics. Listen to " SSRIs - S.S.R.Lies " here: http://www.naturalnews.com/SSRIs_S_... > > > The ugly truth about the War on Drugs > The War on Drugs, of course, was never really about ending drug use in the first place. It was about eliminating the competition for Big Pharma, making sure kids get off generic black market drugs and get onto brand-name Big Pharma drugs. To legitimize this mass drugging of children, the industry of modern psychiatry was created, with all its imaginary (hallucinated?) disorders and dysfunctions used to befuddle the public with seemingly intelligent-sounding technical jargon. > > It's all just drug-pushing psychobabble, of course. Disorders like ADHD are purely fictional, having no basis in reality whatsoever, and the brain shrinkage pointed to by psychiatrists who claim ADHD causes stunted growth is actually the result of the amphetamine drugs they put the kids on. It is well documented that drugs like Ritalin cause stunted grown and reduced brain size (http://www.naturalnews.com/021944.html). > > The degree of quackery present in the psychiatric industry today is simply staggering. And to think that mainstream doctors defend this quackery is yet more evidence that modern medicine has nothing whatsoever to do with actual science; it's all based on a Cult of Pharmacology where all drugs are considered good and necessary, regardless of the mountain of evidence showing them to be dangerous and medically useless. > > This is where I have to challenge all the so-called " skeptics " out there who attack natural medicine. These skeptics and self-proclaimed quack observers are, in fact, among the greatest quacks of all. Why? Because they aren't skeptical in the least about psychiatric medicine! > > > The skeptics are quacks > Where is the skepticism about this home-grown brand of legalized drug pushing? Where are all the intelligent questions demanding proof that ADHD is a genuine disease and not just something made up to sell more drugs? The skeptics are silent when it comes to psychiatric medicine, and in their silence they reveal themselves to be quacks. > > Logic, reason and scientific evidence are all thrown out the window on the subject of psychiatric disorders. The most rational-sounding skeptics are instantly transformed into psychobabble-spouting quacks who defend the indefensible -- the mass drugging of children with powerful hallucinogenic street drugs as " treatment " for some imaginary disease. > > Sure, the skeptics will attack meditation, crystals, prayer, intention, chiropractic care and even herbal medicine (all of which can be healing, by the way), but when it comes to the loopy loose logic of psychiatric medicine inventing diseases and drugging up the children with hallucinogenic amphetamines, they swallow the whole thing without blinking an eye! > > So much for the credibility of the so-called skeptics and quack busters. It turns out they're quacks themselves. They've simply subscribed to their own form of quackery: Drugs and surgery for all! > > The quacks are on crack, and they're supporting an industry that hands out speed to the children. Meanwhile, the War on Drugs fills the prisons with people who smoked a little weed while completely ignoring the psychiatric pill pushers. Crazy, huh? I'm beginning to thinking everybody's on drugs! > > Just remember, folks: If you want to sell drugs to kids, just get FDA approval first. It keeps the DEA off your back and fools parents into thinking your hallucinogenic drugs are " medicine. " > > About the author: Mike is a natural health researcher and author with a mission to teach personal and planetary health to the public He is a prolific writer and has published thousands of articles, interviews, reports and consumer guides, impacting the lives of millions of readers around the world who are experiencing phenomenal health benefits from reading his articles. is an honest, independent journalist and accepts no money or commissions on the third-party products he writes about or the companies he promotes. In 2007, launched EcoLEDs, a manufacturer of mercury- free, energy-efficient LED lighting products that save electricity and help prevent global warming. He's also a successful software entrepreneur, having founded a well known email marketing software company whose technology currently powers the NaturalNews email newsletters. volunteers his time to serve as the executive director of the Consumer Wellness Center, a > 501©3 non-profit organization, and pursues hobbies such as Pilates, Capoeira, nature macrophotography and organic gardening. Known on the 'net as 'the Health Ranger,' shares his ethics, mission statements and personal health statistics at www.HealthRanger.org > > > > Love, Gabby. :0) > http://stemcellforautism.blogspot.com/ > > " I know of nobody who is purely Autistic or purely neurotypical. Even God had some Autistic moments, which is why the planets all spin. " ~ Jerry Newport > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 OK, goes a bit far in his fanaticism, true, but he does have a point. I recently took Josh for his first appt (he's 10yo) with a shrink and before we even really sat down, the doc was recommending Celexa and DDVAP (for bedwetting). I've always been opposed to the use of meds, seeking instead to find more holistic and therapeutic interventions for some of Josh's behavior issues (he's always done the " fight " of the " fight or flight " response to sensory input). Doc made a point that we've tried 10 years of such and it's still going on, but, really, almost everything I've read is that the use of meds such as Celexa (in particular) for anxiety in kids simply has not been researched enough. And, the use of those types of meds that are really anti-depressants for kids under 18 has led to some extremely serious consequences (suicidal ideation, etc.). I'm still struggling with the idea and am seeking out as much input as I can get on the use of the meds (BTW, I did try the bed-wetting med and Josh got sick as a dog two days after starting it - lowest dose possible - I've stopped it and I'm just hanging onto those coupons for Depends!) but it is something that scare the hell (sorry for the language) out of me! These are SSRIs or psychotropic meds we're dealing with, and our children's brains, futures, and possibly lives - it's not anything to laugh at either way. Sherry ________________________________ From: cbwildes <cbwildes@...> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 10:00:47 AM Subject: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit Seriously??? I hope we're supposed to laugh at this, and not agree with it. From the abstract of the article in Pediatrics (located here: http://pediatrics. aappublications. org/cgi/content/ abstract/ 123/2/611): " A total of 11 psychosis/mania adverse events occurred during 743 person-years of double-blind treatment with these drugs... " ELEVEN. Events. Not even that 11 children had repeated events. There were 11 instances of psychosis/mania adverse events. Of course, it's good to know, and terrible for those kids, and important to address. But Mike would have you believe that every child taking an ADHD medication is having these: " the ADHD drugs prescribed to millions of children are causing them to experience frightening hallucinations. Children on these drugs hallucinated. .. " He insinuates that any medication prescribed by any psychiatrist may as well be crack cocaine: " ...psychobabble- spouting quacks who defend the indefensible -- the mass drugging of children with powerful hallucinogenic street drugs as " treatment " for some imaginary disease. " I wouldn't even be responding, except I'm afraid there are people out there who might listen to him. Sigh. He says, " Disorders like ADHD are purely fictional, having no basis in reality whatsoever.. . " He's as bad as Savage, who said autistic kids just needed a good spank to make them shape up and stop being brats. Sigh again. I'm sorry, I'm sure I've offended someone, if not many of you...that wasn't my intention. It just irritates the crap out of me when people take one problem associated with anything (not just medicine) and twist it into their own extreme version of " truth, " dragging sincerely concerned people with them. Some drugs do have negative side effects. Absolutely. But that doesn't make the whole field " a legalized mass-drugging campaign that's permanently harming the brains of children while earning sick profits for Big Pharma. " Jeesh. Carole > > http://www.naturaln ews.com/025433. html > > New research published in the journal Pediatrics reveals that the ADHD drugs prescribed to millions of children are causing them to experience frightening hallucinations. Children on these drugs hallucinated that snakes and bugs were crawling all over them, says Reuters, and some kids taking the drugs experience other bizarre psychotic side effects such as thinking they ran into a wall and falling to the ground even when no wall was present. > > ADHD drugs, of course, are powerful psychotropic mind-altering chemicals that are often molecularly identical to street drugs. The industry of psychiatry is virtually owned by Big Pharma, which hopes to drug every child, teenager and adult with at least one mind- altering medication. > > The drugs reviewed in this study include: Ritalin and Focalin XR (Novartis), Adderall XR and Daytrana patch (Shire), Concerta ( & ), Strattera (Eli Lilly), Metadate CD (Celltech Pharmaceuticals) and Provigil (Cephalon). > > Researchers noticed that only children taking these drugs suffered from hallucinations. Those taking placebo had no hallucinations, and the children who stopped taking ADHD drugs saw their hallucinations cease. > > Reuters reports that " …FDA researchers urged doctors to discuss the potential side effects with parents and children to help ease their anxiety if such symptoms should occur. " So instead of getting their kids off these drugs, the FDA thinks parents and kids just need to " talk about the hallucinations " to ease their anxiety. > > And if that's not enough, I suppose, there are anti-anxiety drugs they can both take in order to avoid getting too uptight about the fact that their children are on hallucinogenic drugs. > > > Stop the insanity! > I'm just going to come right out and say the obvious: These children are tripping out on hallucinogenic, mind-altering street drugs. This isn't " treatment " for some genuine health problem; it's a legalized mass-drugging campaign that's permanently harming the brains of children while earning sick profits for Big Pharma. > > The psychiatric pill pushers have managed to turn a generation of children into druggies who are now demonstrating the same symptoms as a street junkie burnout. And rather than trying to get kids OFF these drugs, the FDA, Big Pharma and modern psychiatrists are doing everything in their power to put MORE kids on these dangerous, hallucinogenic drugs! > > That this continues in America today is outrageous. In a nation that spends billions of dollars on the so-called " War on Drugs " -- see the Drug War Clock at http://www.drugsens e.org/wodclock. htm -- to ignore the mass drugging of its own children with hallucinogenic street drugs relabeled as " medication " is unconscionable. > > If there's really a War on Drugs, why doesn't that war target the biggest drug pushers of all? Big Pharma has put more kids on drugs than any street corner crack dealer could ever hope to achieve. In fact, the entire industry of psychiatric medicine is little more than a legalized drug dealing network that hides behind the jargon of " medicine " and " therapy. " > > > Mind-numbed parents lead to drugged children > It's not just the industry that's to blame on all this, either: Parents who allow their children to be drugged with these hallucinogenic ADHD drugs are just as much a part of the problem. In the same households where parents are adamantly restricting their child's use of pot or alcohol, they will literally feed that same kid dose after dose of hallucinogenic street drugs on the advice of a psychiatric medicine quack who's on the take from Big Pharma. > > What are they thinking? Say no to drugs, but say yes to hallucinogenic psychotropic drugs if a corrupt psychiatrist tells you your kid needs them? > > Somehow, when speed is labeled under Big Pharma's brand names, it eludes all rational thinking by parents, doctors, pharmacists and drug war zealots. It is one of the largest sectors of the hallucinogenic drug trade in America, and yet it goes completely unnoticed by virtually everyone. > > My latest hip-hop song takes a shot at mind-altering medications with some disturbing, uncensored lyrics. Listen to " SSRIs - S.S.R.Lies " here: http://www.naturaln ews.com/SSRIs_ S_... > > > The ugly truth about the War on Drugs > The War on Drugs, of course, was never really about ending drug use in the first place. It was about eliminating the competition for Big Pharma, making sure kids get off generic black market drugs and get onto brand-name Big Pharma drugs. To legitimize this mass drugging of children, the industry of modern psychiatry was created, with all its imaginary (hallucinated? ) disorders and dysfunctions used to befuddle the public with seemingly intelligent- sounding technical jargon. > > It's all just drug-pushing psychobabble, of course. Disorders like ADHD are purely fictional, having no basis in reality whatsoever, and the brain shrinkage pointed to by psychiatrists who claim ADHD causes stunted growth is actually the result of the amphetamine drugs they put the kids on. It is well documented that drugs like Ritalin cause stunted grown and reduced brain size (http://www.naturaln ews.com/021944. html). > > The degree of quackery present in the psychiatric industry today is simply staggering. And to think that mainstream doctors defend this quackery is yet more evidence that modern medicine has nothing whatsoever to do with actual science; it's all based on a Cult of Pharmacology where all drugs are considered good and necessary, regardless of the mountain of evidence showing them to be dangerous and medically useless. > > This is where I have to challenge all the so-called " skeptics " out there who attack natural medicine. These skeptics and self-proclaimed quack observers are, in fact, among the greatest quacks of all. Why? Because they aren't skeptical in the least about psychiatric medicine! > > > The skeptics are quacks > Where is the skepticism about this home-grown brand of legalized drug pushing? Where are all the intelligent questions demanding proof that ADHD is a genuine disease and not just something made up to sell more drugs? The skeptics are silent when it comes to psychiatric medicine, and in their silence they reveal themselves to be quacks. > > Logic, reason and scientific evidence are all thrown out the window on the subject of psychiatric disorders. The most rational-sounding skeptics are instantly transformed into psychobabble- spouting quacks who defend the indefensible -- the mass drugging of children with powerful hallucinogenic street drugs as " treatment " for some imaginary disease. > > Sure, the skeptics will attack meditation, crystals, prayer, intention, chiropractic care and even herbal medicine (all of which can be healing, by the way), but when it comes to the loopy loose logic of psychiatric medicine inventing diseases and drugging up the children with hallucinogenic amphetamines, they swallow the whole thing without blinking an eye! > > So much for the credibility of the so-called skeptics and quack busters. It turns out they're quacks themselves. They've simply subscribed to their own form of quackery: Drugs and surgery for all! > > The quacks are on crack, and they're supporting an industry that hands out speed to the children. Meanwhile, the War on Drugs fills the prisons with people who smoked a little weed while completely ignoring the psychiatric pill pushers. Crazy, huh? I'm beginning to thinking everybody's on drugs! > > Just remember, folks: If you want to sell drugs to kids, just get FDA approval first. It keeps the DEA off your back and fools parents into thinking your hallucinogenic drugs are " medicine. " > > About the author: Mike is a natural health researcher and author with a mission to teach personal and planetary health to the public He is a prolific writer and has published thousands of articles, interviews, reports and consumer guides, impacting the lives of millions of readers around the world who are experiencing phenomenal health benefits from reading his articles. is an honest, independent journalist and accepts no money or commissions on the third-party products he writes about or the companies he promotes. In 2007, launched EcoLEDs, a manufacturer of mercury- free, energy-efficient LED lighting products that save electricity and help prevent global warming. He's also a successful software entrepreneur, having founded a well known email marketing software company whose technology currently powers the NaturalNews email newsletters. volunteers his time to serve as the executive director of the Consumer Wellness Center, a > 501©3 non-profit organization, and pursues hobbies such as Pilates, Capoeira, nature macrophotography and organic gardening. Known on the 'net as 'the Health Ranger,' shares his ethics, mission statements and personal health statistics at www.HealthRanger. org > > > > Love, Gabby. :0) > http://stemcellfora utism.blogspot. com/ > > " I know of nobody who is purely Autistic or purely neurotypical. Even God had some Autistic moments, which is why the planets all spin. " ~ Jerry Newport > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Sherry, you are absolutely right, it is definitely a serious matter...my question of laughing was just at some of ' ludicrous conclusions and generalizations. I totally agree, these can be dangerous meds, and the decision to try them should never be taken lightly. And I agree that many psychiatrists jump to medicating as 'the' solution WAY too fast, and they seem to often discount the value of trying non-medicinal things first. Sometimes, though, medication IS the only solution. Sometimes several have to be tried to see if they're beneficial at all or have negative side effects. I hate that about medicines; they react differently to everyone. This is true of all medications, not just psychotropics. The scariest part is that the side effects of the psychotropics could, as you said, cause things as terrible as suicide attempts. (shiver) Ugh, it's all so difficult and scary, trying to help our children! Because there are those kids who were failing school, relationships, everything until they got the right medication...and who are now successful students with friends. I know there are parents out there who just toss medications at their kids just to make their (the parents') lives easier. But I know that everyone on this board is working their hardest to figure out and do what is truly best for their children. Maybe what made me so mad about this article, besides the extremes he created out of nothing, is how he talked about parents. None of the parents I know of are throwing 'street drugs' at their kids. Keeping your child from alcohol and pot is absolutely compatible with giving them a medication that they need, even if it's a psychotropic medication. But equates all psychotropics with crack, and comes across as thinking pot is better. Sigh. I worry that a parent who is giving their child a psychotropic medication will read ' article and decide to stop the medication without talking to their doctor first -- it can be very dangerous to do that, but if I had been convinced by this article, I certainly wouldn't be calling my (apparently corrupt drug-dealing) doctor for directions! I apologize for seeming to laugh about the underlying issues here; I should have taken more time too 'cool off' a bit before writing! Carole > > OK, goes a bit far in his fanaticism, true, but he does have a point. I recently took Josh for his first appt (he's 10yo) with a shrink and before we even really sat down, the doc was recommending Celexa and DDVAP (for bedwetting). I've always been opposed to the use of meds, seeking instead to find more holistic and therapeutic interventions for some of Josh's behavior issues (he's always done the " fight " of the " fight or flight " response to sensory input). Doc made a point that we've tried 10 years of such and it's still going on, but, really, almost everything I've read is that the use of meds such as Celexa (in particular) for anxiety in kids simply has not been researched enough. And, the use of those types of meds that are really anti-depressants for kids under 18 has led to some extremely serious consequences (suicidal ideation, etc.). I'm still struggling with the idea and am seeking out as much input as I can get on the use of > the meds (BTW, I did try the bed-wetting med and Josh got sick as a dog two days after starting it - lowest dose possible - I've stopped it and I'm just hanging onto those coupons for Depends!) but it is something that scare the hell (sorry for the language) out of me! These are SSRIs or psychotropic meds we're dealing with, and our children's brains, futures, and possibly lives - it's not anything to laugh at either way. > > Sherry > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hello Everyone, I have to jump in on this conversation. I am 34 yo. I have taken many different types of pychotropic as well as SSRIS medications in my life as an adult for various mental health related issues. I have to tell you all that these two types of meds no matter what they are as names go. They are extremely dangerous to be taking. There are significant side effects with them all to varying degrees. Yes they were prescribed to me by a psychiatrist. The side effects of hallucinations, suicidal ideation, tremors,confusion etc. These I have experienced myself at one time or anther due to these types of medications. I actually decided to go off them completely 4 years ago after having been opn many different ones for years. I went off them due to bad side effects I was having with them, some them are as follows one med depakote actually was eating away my red blood cells made me very sick I was in the hospital for a long period of time. I know depakote is also an anti seizure med it is very good for that I hear. very bad med to taking as a psych med. I have suffered effects on my heart from extremely low blood pressure dangerously low and now have minor heart things going on. I now suffer from migraines that put me in bed some days they hurt so bad. Yes these are all the effects I now have to live with due to taking these types of meds. Yes it has been proven medically to have been caused by the meds I took. Plese we are talking about our children here most of thwem still pretty young age wise. Please if you need to give them to your children get all the info you can on them it is very important to know the side effects to look for they can be life threatening. Please use extreme caution with them all. Even ADHD drugs can be dangerous. But also keep in mind that pyschotropic and SSRIs can be used safely and are safe to be used by the right person for the right diagnosis. Some people no choice but to take them they very lives depend on them. I know many people who can not function without these meds. These meds are not to be used as a first option by no means. They actually should be considered the last option to try. So I agree with you all . Please try something else before trying these meds on your kids. They do work effectively if they need them. To my knowledge some of these meds are used a lot in the medical community and prescribed a lot by general medical doctors. thats fine for some of the meds. But I believe that most of the psychotropic medications should only be precribed by a psychiatrist who is familiar with these drugs. They are some very addictive medications some of them are. On a side note I ahve to add soemthing to you all on a comment in the article which was mentioned. I have taken a lot of these meds myself. Speaking from someone who has taken some of them zoloft,risperdal,seraquel,trazadone,activan, depakote just to name a few. These drugs are like taking COCAINE if your on high doses like I was. It is not when you have been on them for a while. The effect is in the first 6 to 8 wks you start them. It feels like your high as a kite. They make you feel woozy and funny,you hallucinate etc. I did this on seroquel when I first started taking it. It felt horrible. I stopped taking it within afew days it was like being in a trance for me. Words can not describe the experience. It was scary and not fun. So truthfully it is not a laughing matter. The guy was actually stating the truth on that. However it is not like taking POT at all. Never done any drugs in my life not street ones or hard core ones at all. Just these meds if you want to call them drugs then fine. They certainly give you the same feeling from my experience. Just thought everyone would like an inside scoop on these meds from somebody who has experience with them. I meant with actually taking them for a long period of time. Who also took them for the reason they were developed mental health reasons. I hope youa ll find the right things to help your children. I hope it is an alternative to these types of medications. As a parent I would never ever give any of these meds to my own son who is 10 yo for any reason at all. They actually wanted to give him one of these meds for his attention issues at school. I told them some things that can not be repeated. They would have to take me to court in order to do it. They backed down fast on that one. I told trhem they could learn to deal with at school. At home is fine and has a long attention span. Jeanne NH From: cbwildes <cbwildes@...> Subject: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 12:30 PM Sherry, you are absolutely right, it is definitely a serious matter...my question of laughing was just at some of ' ludicrous conclusions and generalizations. I totally agree, these can be dangerous meds, and the decision to try them should never be taken lightly. And I agree that many psychiatrists jump to medicating as 'the' solution WAY too fast, and they seem to often discount the value of trying non-medicinal things first. Sometimes, though, medication IS the only solution. Sometimes several have to be tried to see if they're beneficial at all or have negative side effects. I hate that about medicines; they react differently to everyone. This is true of all medications, not just psychotropics. The scariest part is that the side effects of the psychotropics could, as you said, cause things as terrible as suicide attempts. (shiver) Ugh, it's all so difficult and scary, trying to help our children! Because there are those kids who were failing school, relationships, everything until they got the right medication.. .and who are now successful students with friends. I know there are parents out there who just toss medications at their kids just to make their (the parents') lives easier. But I know that everyone on this board is working their hardest to figure out and do what is truly best for their children. Maybe what made me so mad about this article, besides the extremes he created out of nothing, is how he talked about parents. None of the parents I know of are throwing 'street drugs' at their kids. Keeping your child from alcohol and pot is absolutely compatible with giving them a medication that they need, even if it's a psychotropic medication. But equates all psychotropics with crack, and comes across as thinking pot is better. Sigh. I worry that a parent who is giving their child a psychotropic medication will read ' article and decide to stop the medication without talking to their doctor first -- it can be very dangerous to do that, but if I had been convinced by this article, I certainly wouldn't be calling my (apparently corrupt drug-dealing) doctor for directions! I apologize for seeming to laugh about the underlying issues here; I should have taken more time too 'cool off' a bit before writing! Carole > > OK, goes a bit far in his fanaticism, true, but he does have a point. I recently took Josh for his first appt (he's 10yo) with a shrink and before we even really sat down, the doc was recommending Celexa and DDVAP (for bedwetting). I've always been opposed to the use of meds, seeking instead to find more holistic and therapeutic interventions for some of Josh's behavior issues (he's always done the " fight " of the " fight or flight " response to sensory input). Doc made a point that we've tried 10 years of such and it's still going on, but, really, almost everything I've read is that the use of meds such as Celexa (in particular) for anxiety in kids simply has not been researched enough. And, the use of those types of meds that are really anti-depressants for kids under 18 has led to some extremely serious consequences (suicidal ideation, etc.). I'm still struggling with the idea and am seeking out as much input as I can get on the use of > the meds (BTW, I did try the bed-wetting med and Josh got sick as a dog two days after starting it - lowest dose possible - I've stopped it and I'm just hanging onto those coupons for Depends!) but it is something that scare the hell (sorry for the language) out of me! These are SSRIs or psychotropic meds we're dealing with, and our children's brains, futures, and possibly lives - it's not anything to laugh at either way. > > Sherry > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hello again everyone, I have to add something else to this post. I have to agrre with you carole. Most of what this guy had to say is based on his own opinion and not actual facts. Not all ADHD drugs cause these side effects. Some of them are known to better than others. But keep in mind every person does not react the same to every drug. Thats why there are millions of them out there and at least 20 or more that do the same thing but are different in some way. Not every one can take the same med. This man sound like a hypocrite to me. He does have soem good points as I mentioned before. I think everyone should pick and choose what they believe to be true. But my advice is check them out throughly before deciding one particular one to try. Research them well and make sure you choose the one that best fits the symptoms and will work the best. There is one very dangerous ADHD drug out there or was out there that did actually do these things and have these effects on children. It is called RITALIN. It did have actual cases of causing dangerous and serious effects on children. That is medically proven. I have not heard anything about it recently due to I think they might of took it off the market not sure though. There is another ADHD drug that I heard about that was causing some big debate though in regards to these types of issues. I do not remember the name though. In another aspect something everyone should be awareof. I heard on the TV a few days ago that 3 pychotropic drugs on the market are causing some people to have dangerous and serious complications with their health. One named was SEROQUEL. I do not remember the other 2 names. Jeanne NH From: cbwildes <cbwildes@...> Subject: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 11:00 AM Seriously??? I hope we're supposed to laugh at this, and not agree with it. From the abstract of the article in Pediatrics (located here: http://pediatrics. aappublications. org/cgi/content/ abstract/ 123/2/611): " A total of 11 psychosis/mania adverse events occurred during 743 person-years of double-blind treatment with these drugs... " ELEVEN. Events. Not even that 11 children had repeated events. There were 11 instances of psychosis/mania adverse events. Of course, it's good to know, and terrible for those kids, and important to address. But Mike would have you believe that every child taking an ADHD medication is having these: " the ADHD drugs prescribed to millions of children are causing them to experience frightening hallucinations. Children on these drugs hallucinated. .. " He insinuates that any medication prescribed by any psychiatrist may as well be crack cocaine: " ...psychobabble- spouting quacks who defend the indefensible -- the mass drugging of children with powerful hallucinogenic street drugs as " treatment " for some imaginary disease. " I wouldn't even be responding, except I'm afraid there are people out there who might listen to him. Sigh. He says, " Disorders like ADHD are purely fictional, having no basis in reality whatsoever.. . " He's as bad as Savage, who said autistic kids just needed a good spank to make them shape up and stop being brats. Sigh again. I'm sorry, I'm sure I've offended someone, if not many of you...that wasn't my intention. It just irritates the crap out of me when people take one problem associated with anything (not just medicine) and twist it into their own extreme version of " truth, " dragging sincerely concerned people with them. Some drugs do have negative side effects. Absolutely. But that doesn't make the whole field " a legalized mass-drugging campaign that's permanently harming the brains of children while earning sick profits for Big Pharma. " Jeesh. Carole > > http://www.naturaln ews.com/025433. html > > New research published in the journal Pediatrics reveals that the ADHD drugs prescribed to millions of children are causing them to experience frightening hallucinations. Children on these drugs hallucinated that snakes and bugs were crawling all over them, says Reuters, and some kids taking the drugs experience other bizarre psychotic side effects such as thinking they ran into a wall and falling to the ground even when no wall was present. > > ADHD drugs, of course, are powerful psychotropic mind-altering chemicals that are often molecularly identical to street drugs. The industry of psychiatry is virtually owned by Big Pharma, which hopes to drug every child, teenager and adult with at least one mind- altering medication. > > The drugs reviewed in this study include: Ritalin and Focalin XR (Novartis), Adderall XR and Daytrana patch (Shire), Concerta ( & ), Strattera (Eli Lilly), Metadate CD (Celltech Pharmaceuticals) and Provigil (Cephalon). > > Researchers noticed that only children taking these drugs suffered from hallucinations. Those taking placebo had no hallucinations, and the children who stopped taking ADHD drugs saw their hallucinations cease. > > Reuters reports that " …FDA researchers urged doctors to discuss the potential side effects with parents and children to help ease their anxiety if such symptoms should occur. " So instead of getting their kids off these drugs, the FDA thinks parents and kids just need to " talk about the hallucinations " to ease their anxiety. > > And if that's not enough, I suppose, there are anti-anxiety drugs they can both take in order to avoid getting too uptight about the fact that their children are on hallucinogenic drugs. > > > Stop the insanity! > I'm just going to come right out and say the obvious: These children are tripping out on hallucinogenic, mind-altering street drugs. This isn't " treatment " for some genuine health problem; it's a legalized mass-drugging campaign that's permanently harming the brains of children while earning sick profits for Big Pharma. > > The psychiatric pill pushers have managed to turn a generation of children into druggies who are now demonstrating the same symptoms as a street junkie burnout. And rather than trying to get kids OFF these drugs, the FDA, Big Pharma and modern psychiatrists are doing everything in their power to put MORE kids on these dangerous, hallucinogenic drugs! > > That this continues in America today is outrageous. In a nation that spends billions of dollars on the so-called " War on Drugs " -- see the Drug War Clock at http://www.drugsens e.org/wodclock. htm -- to ignore the mass drugging of its own children with hallucinogenic street drugs relabeled as " medication " is unconscionable. > > If there's really a War on Drugs, why doesn't that war target the biggest drug pushers of all? Big Pharma has put more kids on drugs than any street corner crack dealer could ever hope to achieve. In fact, the entire industry of psychiatric medicine is little more than a legalized drug dealing network that hides behind the jargon of " medicine " and " therapy. " > > > Mind-numbed parents lead to drugged children > It's not just the industry that's to blame on all this, either: Parents who allow their children to be drugged with these hallucinogenic ADHD drugs are just as much a part of the problem. In the same households where parents are adamantly restricting their child's use of pot or alcohol, they will literally feed that same kid dose after dose of hallucinogenic street drugs on the advice of a psychiatric medicine quack who's on the take from Big Pharma. > > What are they thinking? Say no to drugs, but say yes to hallucinogenic psychotropic drugs if a corrupt psychiatrist tells you your kid needs them? > > Somehow, when speed is labeled under Big Pharma's brand names, it eludes all rational thinking by parents, doctors, pharmacists and drug war zealots. It is one of the largest sectors of the hallucinogenic drug trade in America, and yet it goes completely unnoticed by virtually everyone. > > My latest hip-hop song takes a shot at mind-altering medications with some disturbing, uncensored lyrics. Listen to " SSRIs - S.S.R.Lies " here: http://www.naturaln ews.com/SSRIs_ S_... > > > The ugly truth about the War on Drugs > The War on Drugs, of course, was never really about ending drug use in the first place. It was about eliminating the competition for Big Pharma, making sure kids get off generic black market drugs and get onto brand-name Big Pharma drugs. To legitimize this mass drugging of children, the industry of modern psychiatry was created, with all its imaginary (hallucinated? ) disorders and dysfunctions used to befuddle the public with seemingly intelligent- sounding technical jargon. > > It's all just drug-pushing psychobabble, of course. Disorders like ADHD are purely fictional, having no basis in reality whatsoever, and the brain shrinkage pointed to by psychiatrists who claim ADHD causes stunted growth is actually the result of the amphetamine drugs they put the kids on. It is well documented that drugs like Ritalin cause stunted grown and reduced brain size (http://www.naturaln ews.com/021944. html). > > The degree of quackery present in the psychiatric industry today is simply staggering. And to think that mainstream doctors defend this quackery is yet more evidence that modern medicine has nothing whatsoever to do with actual science; it's all based on a Cult of Pharmacology where all drugs are considered good and necessary, regardless of the mountain of evidence showing them to be dangerous and medically useless. > > This is where I have to challenge all the so-called " skeptics " out there who attack natural medicine. These skeptics and self-proclaimed quack observers are, in fact, among the greatest quacks of all. Why? Because they aren't skeptical in the least about psychiatric medicine! > > > The skeptics are quacks > Where is the skepticism about this home-grown brand of legalized drug pushing? Where are all the intelligent questions demanding proof that ADHD is a genuine disease and not just something made up to sell more drugs? The skeptics are silent when it comes to psychiatric medicine, and in their silence they reveal themselves to be quacks. > > Logic, reason and scientific evidence are all thrown out the window on the subject of psychiatric disorders. The most rational-sounding skeptics are instantly transformed into psychobabble- spouting quacks who defend the indefensible -- the mass drugging of children with powerful hallucinogenic street drugs as " treatment " for some imaginary disease. > > Sure, the skeptics will attack meditation, crystals, prayer, intention, chiropractic care and even herbal medicine (all of which can be healing, by the way), but when it comes to the loopy loose logic of psychiatric medicine inventing diseases and drugging up the children with hallucinogenic amphetamines, they swallow the whole thing without blinking an eye! > > So much for the credibility of the so-called skeptics and quack busters. It turns out they're quacks themselves. They've simply subscribed to their own form of quackery: Drugs and surgery for all! > > The quacks are on crack, and they're supporting an industry that hands out speed to the children. Meanwhile, the War on Drugs fills the prisons with people who smoked a little weed while completely ignoring the psychiatric pill pushers. Crazy, huh? I'm beginning to thinking everybody's on drugs! > > Just remember, folks: If you want to sell drugs to kids, just get FDA approval first. It keeps the DEA off your back and fools parents into thinking your hallucinogenic drugs are " medicine. " > > About the author: Mike is a natural health researcher and author with a mission to teach personal and planetary health to the public He is a prolific writer and has published thousands of articles, interviews, reports and consumer guides, impacting the lives of millions of readers around the world who are experiencing phenomenal health benefits from reading his articles. is an honest, independent journalist and accepts no money or commissions on the third-party products he writes about or the companies he promotes. In 2007, launched EcoLEDs, a manufacturer of mercury- free, energy-efficient LED lighting products that save electricity and help prevent global warming. He's also a successful software entrepreneur, having founded a well known email marketing software company whose technology currently powers the NaturalNews email newsletters. volunteers his time to serve as the executive director of the Consumer Wellness Center, a > 501©3 non-profit organization, and pursues hobbies such as Pilates, Capoeira, nature macrophotography and organic gardening. Known on the 'net as 'the Health Ranger,' shares his ethics, mission statements and personal health statistics at www.HealthRanger. org > > > > Love, Gabby. :0) > http://stemcellfora utism.blogspot. com/ > > " I know of nobody who is purely Autistic or purely neurotypical. Even God had some Autistic moments, which is why the planets all spin. " ~ Jerry Newport > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hi Carole - I think I understood what your point was, and I'm sorry for coming off upset about it - ' conclusions were ludicrous, I agree, and his fanaticism certainly came across in his tirade. This is one of those subjects that has been in the front of my own brain for the last three weeks, though. I'm hashing it all out with my ex, I've spoken to many other parents who do, did, have not, would never, blah, blah, blah give the meds with all varying opinions on the efficacy of them. So, in short, I'm totally confused and I don't think that's the best state of mind for me to be in in making the decision whether or not to give them. The shrink says Celexa (the one he prescribed) can really help with anxiety and thus the aggression that Josh displays when he has sensory overloads. I just got back from Josh's ped (6th grade physical!) and his practice does not prescribe Celexa (they don't prescribe psychiatric meds) so he hasn't had any experience with it but said he has heard it can control aggression and, hey, what is there to lose for just trying it? I can always take him off the meds (he also said the practice rarely prescribes the bedwetting med the shrink prescribed except for kids with enuresis who maybe want to go to overnight camp or to an overnight party - it really is for their own self-esteem and to prevent embarassment - Josh has not gotten to do overnights yet - and the ped said he would be really surprised if Josh getting sick last week was related to the med). My ex says absolutely no on the SSRIs but, hey, let's give him Ritalin (even though no one has yet to come out and say for certain that Josh has ADHD). I'm totally opposed to psychotropics for many reasons and opposed to SSRIs because of the lack of research on kids under 18. On the other hand, as the shrink said, I've got a kid who will strike at people, grab glasses off their faces, kick, or butt his head when he is startled or is having sensory overload (Josh is not on the autism spectrum - absolutely everybody agrees on that - but he does have sensory integration dysfunction) and the traditional therapies that we've tried are not being consistently and totally successful. I'm a criminal lawyer and I have this fear that someday Josh will strike out at someone because of his sensory issues and his name will appear on a colleagues desk with Josh having been charged with battery or something. And, then there's Josh's clinical social worker who keeps giving more and more strategies to deal with the issues (and they are good ideas - some we've done, some not), but his point is that everyone in Josh's life or environment needs to be on the same page with the strategies so there is consistency - something that is incredibly difficult to do (especially when there are people at school who just don't get it!) and Josh, realistically, is not going to be in this type of safe environment every minute of every day. So, I'm really in a quandry. I wish there was a summer camp, or a school that deals only with kids with sensory integration dysfunction that would provide REALLY intensive sensory training/therapy (and, of course, provide good speech therapy for his apraxia!) without having to resort to any meds... ah, well, I can dream.... Sherry ________________________________ From: cbwildes <cbwildes@...> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 11:30:07 AM Subject: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit Sherry, you are absolutely right, it is definitely a serious matter...my question of laughing was just at some of ' ludicrous conclusions and generalizations. I totally agree, these can be dangerous meds, and the decision to try them should never be taken lightly. And I agree that many psychiatrists jump to medicating as 'the' solution WAY too fast, and they seem to often discount the value of trying non-medicinal things first. Sometimes, though, medication IS the only solution. Sometimes several have to be tried to see if they're beneficial at all or have negative side effects. I hate that about medicines; they react differently to everyone. This is true of all medications, not just psychotropics. The scariest part is that the side effects of the psychotropics could, as you said, cause things as terrible as suicide attempts. (shiver) Ugh, it's all so difficult and scary, trying to help our children! Because there are those kids who were failing school, relationships, everything until they got the right medication.. .and who are now successful students with friends. I know there are parents out there who just toss medications at their kids just to make their (the parents') lives easier. But I know that everyone on this board is working their hardest to figure out and do what is truly best for their children. Maybe what made me so mad about this article, besides the extremes he created out of nothing, is how he talked about parents. None of the parents I know of are throwing 'street drugs' at their kids. Keeping your child from alcohol and pot is absolutely compatible with giving them a medication that they need, even if it's a psychotropic medication. But equates all psychotropics with crack, and comes across as thinking pot is better. Sigh. I worry that a parent who is giving their child a psychotropic medication will read ' article and decide to stop the medication without talking to their doctor first -- it can be very dangerous to do that, but if I had been convinced by this article, I certainly wouldn't be calling my (apparently corrupt drug-dealing) doctor for directions! I apologize for seeming to laugh about the underlying issues here; I should have taken more time too 'cool off' a bit before writing! Carole > > OK, goes a bit far in his fanaticism, true, but he does have a point. I recently took Josh for his first appt (he's 10yo) with a shrink and before we even really sat down, the doc was recommending Celexa and DDVAP (for bedwetting). I've always been opposed to the use of meds, seeking instead to find more holistic and therapeutic interventions for some of Josh's behavior issues (he's always done the " fight " of the " fight or flight " response to sensory input). Doc made a point that we've tried 10 years of such and it's still going on, but, really, almost everything I've read is that the use of meds such as Celexa (in particular) for anxiety in kids simply has not been researched enough. And, the use of those types of meds that are really anti-depressants for kids under 18 has led to some extremely serious consequences (suicidal ideation, etc.). I'm still struggling with the idea and am seeking out as much input as I can get on the use of > the meds (BTW, I did try the bed-wetting med and Josh got sick as a dog two days after starting it - lowest dose possible - I've stopped it and I'm just hanging onto those coupons for Depends!) but it is something that scare the hell (sorry for the language) out of me! These are SSRIs or psychotropic meds we're dealing with, and our children's brains, futures, and possibly lives - it's not anything to laugh at either way. > > Sherry > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Thank you Jeanne - I just read your email after composing one of my own about the quandry I'm in on this decision. I couldn't help but sit here crying over both your experiences and as a release for the fear I have with the idea of giving such meds to my Josh. After reading your email, it's even more clear to me that the idea of meds such as these absolutely should not be done without a whole lot of research and not just because we should " try it, you can always just take him off " in mind. Your experiences with the long term effects scares me all the more. I wish you luck in dealing with your health issues, and thank you for sharing. Sherry ________________________________ From: Jeanne <jamie199866@...> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:29:34 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit Hello Everyone, I have to jump in on this conversation. I am 34 yo. I have taken many different types of pychotropic as well as SSRIS medications in my life as an adult for various mental health related issues. I have to tell you all that these two types of meds no matter what they are as names go. They are extremely dangerous to be taking. There are significant side effects with them all to varying degrees. Yes they were prescribed to me by a psychiatrist. The side effects of hallucinations, suicidal ideation, tremors,confusion etc. These I have experienced myself at one time or anther due to these types of medications. I actually decided to go off them completely 4 years ago after having been opn many different ones for years. I went off them due to bad side effects I was having with them, some them are as follows one med depakote actually was eating away my red blood cells made me very sick I was in the hospital for a long period of time. I know depakote is also an anti seizure med it is very good for that I hear. very bad med to taking as a psych med. I have suffered effects on my heart from extremely low blood pressure dangerously low and now have minor heart things going on. I now suffer from migraines that put me in bed some days they hurt so bad. Yes these are all the effects I now have to live with due to taking these types of meds. Yes it has been proven medically to have been caused by the meds I took. Plese we are talking about our children here most of thwem still pretty young age wise. Please if you need to give them to your children get all the info you can on them it is very important to know the side effects to look for they can be life threatening. Please use extreme caution with them all. Even ADHD drugs can be dangerous. But also keep in mind that pyschotropic and SSRIs can be used safely and are safe to be used by the right person for the right diagnosis. Some people no choice but to take them they very lives depend on them. I know many people who can not function without these meds. These meds are not to be used as a first option by no means. They actually should be considered the last option to try. So I agree with you all . Please try something else before trying these meds on your kids. They do work effectively if they need them. To my knowledge some of these meds are used a lot in the medical community and prescribed a lot by general medical doctors. thats fine for some of the meds. But I believe that most of the psychotropic medications should only be precribed by a psychiatrist who is familiar with these drugs. They are some very addictive medications some of them are. On a side note I ahve to add soemthing to you all on a comment in the article which was mentioned. I have taken a lot of these meds myself. Speaking from someone who has taken some of them zoloft,risperdal, seraquel, trazadone, activan, depakote just to name a few. These drugs are like taking COCAINE if your on high doses like I was. It is not when you have been on them for a while. The effect is in the first 6 to 8 wks you start them. It feels like your high as a kite. They make you feel woozy and funny,you hallucinate etc. I did this on seroquel when I first started taking it. It felt horrible. I stopped taking it within afew days it was like being in a trance for me. Words can not describe the experience. It was scary and not fun. So truthfully it is not a laughing matter. The guy was actually stating the truth on that. However it is not like taking POT at all. Never done any drugs in my life not street ones or hard core ones at all. Just these meds if you want to call them drugs then fine. They certainly give you the same feeling from my experience. Just thought everyone would like an inside scoop on these meds from somebody who has experience with them. I meant with actually taking them for a long period of time. Who also took them for the reason they were developed mental health reasons. I hope youa ll find the right things to help your children. I hope it is an alternative to these types of medications. As a parent I would never ever give any of these meds to my own son who is 10 yo for any reason at all. They actually wanted to give him one of these meds for his attention issues at school. I told them some things that can not be repeated. They would have to take me to court in order to do it. They backed down fast on that one. I told trhem they could learn to deal with at school. At home is fine and has a long attention span. Jeanne NH From: cbwildes <cbwildes (DOT) com> Subject: [childrensapraxiane t] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit @groups. com Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 12:30 PM Sherry, you are absolutely right, it is definitely a serious matter...my question of laughing was just at some of ' ludicrous conclusions and generalizations. I totally agree, these can be dangerous meds, and the decision to try them should never be taken lightly. And I agree that many psychiatrists jump to medicating as 'the' solution WAY too fast, and they seem to often discount the value of trying non-medicinal things first. Sometimes, though, medication IS the only solution. Sometimes several have to be tried to see if they're beneficial at all or have negative side effects. I hate that about medicines; they react differently to everyone. This is true of all medications, not just psychotropics. The scariest part is that the side effects of the psychotropics could, as you said, cause things as terrible as suicide attempts. (shiver) Ugh, it's all so difficult and scary, trying to help our children! Because there are those kids who were failing school, relationships, everything until they got the right medication.. .and who are now successful students with friends. I know there are parents out there who just toss medications at their kids just to make their (the parents') lives easier. But I know that everyone on this board is working their hardest to figure out and do what is truly best for their children. Maybe what made me so mad about this article, besides the extremes he created out of nothing, is how he talked about parents. None of the parents I know of are throwing 'street drugs' at their kids. Keeping your child from alcohol and pot is absolutely compatible with giving them a medication that they need, even if it's a psychotropic medication. But equates all psychotropics with crack, and comes across as thinking pot is better. Sigh. I worry that a parent who is giving their child a psychotropic medication will read ' article and decide to stop the medication without talking to their doctor first -- it can be very dangerous to do that, but if I had been convinced by this article, I certainly wouldn't be calling my (apparently corrupt drug-dealing) doctor for directions! I apologize for seeming to laugh about the underlying issues here; I should have taken more time too 'cool off' a bit before writing! Carole > > OK, goes a bit far in his fanaticism, true, but he does have a point. I recently took Josh for his first appt (he's 10yo) with a shrink and before we even really sat down, the doc was recommending Celexa and DDVAP (for bedwetting). I've always been opposed to the use of meds, seeking instead to find more holistic and therapeutic interventions for some of Josh's behavior issues (he's always done the " fight " of the " fight or flight " response to sensory input). Doc made a point that we've tried 10 years of such and it's still going on, but, really, almost everything I've read is that the use of meds such as Celexa (in particular) for anxiety in kids simply has not been researched enough. And, the use of those types of meds that are really anti-depressants for kids under 18 has led to some extremely serious consequences (suicidal ideation, etc.). I'm still struggling with the idea and am seeking out as much input as I can get on the use of > the meds (BTW, I did try the bed-wetting med and Josh got sick as a dog two days after starting it - lowest dose possible - I've stopped it and I'm just hanging onto those coupons for Depends!) but it is something that scare the hell (sorry for the language) out of me! These are SSRIs or psychotropic meds we're dealing with, and our children's brains, futures, and possibly lives - it's not anything to laugh at either way. > > Sherry > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 If you have an autism program nearby, you might find something that meets his needs. Emory in Atlanta has an autism center and MARCUS has a school. I know UCLA has a program as well. Just a thought. sl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hi ! I couldnt help but reply with my struggle with my child who is ADHd and has anxiety and has had his self esteem completely diminished when teacher's point out to him and the whole class that they cant believe he lost something or that he cant answer a question. My child is really smart but I can tell you that he just will not focus. He is completely inconsistent when it comes to school and at home ....and also I have two other children who watch power struggles day after day and it affects the whole family. So, my son is not on meds but he is not doind well in school and is actually really put off by school. He used to love science but his teacher embarasses him and he dreads science now. The one class where the teacher is kind and enthusiastic is the only class he does well in .....If I could just keep my son at home all the time , I can handle his lack of listening and anger ....but in real life when I am not there, all these people are not so receptive that he is not on meds and has a very hard time organizing and paying attention .... ( along with a lot of other things that he has problems with like sensory problems , anxiety etc. So, sometimes parents are desperate because we can see that our children are bright , they just might learn differently or have issues that teachers make fun of. At least thats my experience where everyday I know my son is not reaching his full potential and not putting him on meds might hurt him more. My son is not on meds but I am not sure where to turn. > Thank you Jeanne - I just read your email after composing one of my own about the quandry I'm in on this decision. I couldn't help but sit here crying over both your experiences and as a release for the fear I have with the idea of giving such meds to my Josh. After reading your email, it's even more clear to me that the idea of meds such as these absolutely should not be done without a whole lot of research and not just because we should " try it, you can always just take him off " in mind. Your experiences with the long term effects scares me all the more. I wish you luck in dealing with your health issues, and thank you for sharing. > > Sherry > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hi , In your sons case it might be benficial to research your options in order to help him. I can see where your at a point your not sure what to do. I am no expert just another parent on the board. I wish you and your son and family the very best. It might be woth maybe looking into the med route to help your son. Again it come sdown to a personal decision. There are safe meds out there you just have to find the right one for your son. Good luck. Jeanne NH From: sweetysource <sweetysource@...> Subject: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 7:44 PM Hi ! I couldnt help but reply with my struggle with my child who is ADHd and has anxiety and has had his self esteem completely diminished when teacher's point out to him and the whole class that they cant believe he lost something or that he cant answer a question. My child is really smart but I can tell you that he just will not focus. He is completely inconsistent when it comes to school and at home ....and also I have two other children who watch power struggles day after day and it affects the whole family. So, my son is not on meds but he is not doind well in school and is actually really put off by school. He used to love science but his teacher embarasses him and he dreads science now. The one class where the teacher is kind and enthusiastic is the only class he does well in .....If I could just keep my son at home all the time , I can handle his lack of listening and anger ....but in real life when I am not there, all these people are not so receptive that he is not on meds and has a very hard time organizing and paying attention .... ( along with a lot of other things that he has problems with like sensory problems , anxiety etc. So, sometimes parents are desperate because we can see that our children are bright , they just might learn differently or have issues that teachers make fun of. At least thats my experience where everyday I know my son is not reaching his full potential and not putting him on meds might hurt him more. My son is not on meds but I am not sure where to turn. > Thank you Jeanne - I just read your email after composing one of my own about the quandry I'm in on this decision. I couldn't help but sit here crying over both your experiences and as a release for the fear I have with the idea of giving such meds to my Josh. After reading your email, it's even more clear to me that the idea of meds such as these absolutely should not be done without a whole lot of research and not just because we should " try it, you can always just take him off " in mind. Your experiences with the long term effects scares me all the more. I wish you luck in dealing with your health issues, and thank you for sharing. > > Sherry > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hi Sherry, I am sorry to hear about Joshs bad experience with the medicatio he took for his bed wetting. What a horrible side effect. thank you for your good wishes. I am doing ok medically now that the meds have been out of my system for several years now. I still experience horrible headaches but I take meds for them. Keep in mind though that I am an adult. I also was taking very high doese of these meds at the time. The depakote alone was over 3,000 milligrams day. Which is way too high to begin with. I can not imagine what your going through with your son. The try it and take him off it approach is not the best thing to do. Some of these meds you have to gradually weaned of of them if your on them for long periods of time. I wish you and Josh the very best on your journey to find a solution to help Josh. On a side note though. I am also struggling with a 10 yo bed wetter. My son never seemed to gain the night time control. He still wets most nights even though he wakes to go in the night and goes before bed. I just put a goodnight on him and make sure the bed is protected. I am not sure what to do either. I just try not to get upset over it to much. I do not want my son to feel bad about it though. We are trying hard to night time control. I am going the med route though. He trained very late at 6 yo. He has low muscle tone. During the day sometimes he has trouble holding it for long periods of time. Good luck. Pleas edo not feel your alone on the bed wetting. Actually investing in depends might be a good idea for night time less messy i would hope. Jeanne NH From: sherry silvern <srsilvern@...> Subject: Re: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 5:36 PM Thank you Jeanne - I just read your email after composing one of my own about the quandry I'm in on this decision. I couldn't help but sit here crying over both your experiences and as a release for the fear I have with the idea of giving such meds to my Josh. After reading your email, it's even more clear to me that the idea of meds such as these absolutely should not be done without a whole lot of research and not just because we should " try it, you can always just take him off " in mind. Your experiences with the long term effects scares me all the more. I wish you luck in dealing with your health issues, and thank you for sharing. Sherry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hi Jeanne - Yep, not making him feel bad about it definitely helps. And, it's really no big deal to me - a mattress protector, depends, and it's nothing. I wonder, though, if he's getting a deep enough sleep, though, and if he's not sleeping as well as he should is that having an effect on behavior and aggression during the day. It was interesting when the doc talked about medicine for not wetting during the night, Josh said he wanted it! I know there are times, like your son, that during the day, if he waits too long or if he gets really upset/excited about something or if the teacher or aide make him wait a little too long, he sometimes wets and he gets really, really embarassed. Like today - they had a half day of school and I knew I'd be picking him up early. He said he wanted to wear just regular underpants (he's regressed in the last several months - emotional stuff going on with my ex not doing his visits consistently or enough, and an aide at school that he's having problems with - he started wearing depends during the day with his underpants even though he's been in just underpants during the day for about three or four years) and I said that would be great. Well, apparently the teacher/aide didn't have him go pee before the end of the 1/2 day and we waited so he could watch all the buses go, and he had an accident. He was so upset, and I felt terrible for him. So, even with my being encouraging and supportive about the nighttime bedwetting, he still has his feelings. The meds would help him maybe, if he didn't have the reaction to them. But, as the ped and the shrink said, there really is no way to tell whether he had the flu or it really was the meds except to try them again. Maybe we'll give it another shot. The ped did say that it's possible that when he gets off the meds (and apparently a kid is only supposed to be on them for a set period of time) he could likely just go back to peeing during the night, so, really, I'm wondering what the point would be. I keep hoping the muscle tone/sensory issues will improve so he'll outgrow it but, even if he doesn't, there are depends that go up to a pretty good size! It's interesting, it's almost comforting for Josh to know there are other people, adults in particular, who have dealt with bedwetting - one of my brothers did until he was about 12yo and, voila, it just stopped. Josh's emotional things right now are definitely not helping matters and my ex doesn't stop to think (or accept) that some of Josh's issues right now just might be related to my ex's behavior. But, that's a whole 'nuther story! Thanks for the words of support, and good luck with your son! Sherry and Josh ________________________________ From: Jeanne <jamie199866@...> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 7:47:32 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit Hi Sherry, I am sorry to hear about Joshs bad experience with the medicatio he took for his bed wetting. What a horrible side effect. thank you for your good wishes. I am doing ok medically now that the meds have been out of my system for several years now. I still experience horrible headaches but I take meds for them. Keep in mind though that I am an adult. I also was taking very high doese of these meds at the time. The depakote alone was over 3,000 milligrams day. Which is way too high to begin with. I can not imagine what your going through with your son. The try it and take him off it approach is not the best thing to do. Some of these meds you have to gradually weaned of of them if your on them for long periods of time. I wish you and Josh the very best on your journey to find a solution to help Josh. On a side note though. I am also struggling with a 10 yo bed wetter. My son never seemed to gain the night time control. He still wets most nights even though he wakes to go in the night and goes before bed. I just put a goodnight on him and make sure the bed is protected. I am not sure what to do either. I just try not to get upset over it to much. I do not want my son to feel bad about it though. We are trying hard to night time control. I am going the med route though. He trained very late at 6 yo. He has low muscle tone. During the day sometimes he has trouble holding it for long periods of time. Good luck. Pleas edo not feel your alone on the bed wetting. Actually investing in depends might be a good idea for night time less messy i would hope. Jeanne NH From: sherry silvern <srsilvern (DOT) com> Subject: Re: [childrensapraxiane t] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit @groups. com Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 5:36 PM Thank you Jeanne - I just read your email after composing one of my own about the quandry I'm in on this decision. I couldn't help but sit here crying over both your experiences and as a release for the fear I have with the idea of giving such meds to my Josh. After reading your email, it's even more clear to me that the idea of meds such as these absolutely should not be done without a whole lot of research and not just because we should " try it, you can always just take him off " in mind. Your experiences with the long term effects scares me all the more. I wish you luck in dealing with your health issues, and thank you for sharing. Sherry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Sherry, I am sorry to hear to that your ex is not helping Josh any and is not supportive of you and your care of him. Yep my also has the same issues with someone upsets him and when excited. The wetting during the day is usually not a big issue for him at school though not sof ar anyway. He has has accidents at school in the past though. The school knew he did and i just sent in some extra sets of clothes for him with a package of wipes in his backpack ( in case heaven forbid he had the other kind which sometimes happened too.) I always sent him to school in regular underpants without anything in them from age 7 on so from 1st grade on. I did not want him to feel self conscious. The wetting at school stopped after his aide realized that if says he has to go. He has to go now not five minutes later. He can not wait. It helped a lot that they started making regular frequent bathroom trips a part of his daily routine. Like when he left the room for ST and OT they visited the rest room before going. Before art, gym etc also,before lunch,before recess ect. It took a lot of time but he eventually did not need extra clothes anymore. Now in 4 th grade he is doing well unless sick with daytime wetting and now knows to tell us he has to go. Now if he is sick we just use goodnights the whole time and don't worry about it. We try our best and the rest is oh well. Wehn he is tired he has ahrd time controlling his muscles i noticed. Night time is our biggest hurdle too. No mattrer how many times he goes before bed he always seems to wet the goodnights. Soaking through them sometimes. The depends is a good idea though for protection. I undertand making them self conscious does not help the child at all. Just keep at it and eventually hopefully it will stop. Poor Josh sorry to hear about his accident. How embarrassing for him. Maybe the med is a good idea if Josh wants to try it. Although I have to agree with you about the fact that it does not sound like it is going to make a difference. On a lighter note. My son came home from school at the beginning of the year. He told me that one of his friends (he told me his name YES!) wears pull ups to school. This boy is like 11 or 12 he is in 5th grade. He is in the special ed class resource room with my son. Anyway I got to answer lots of questions about it. Anyway my point is this. This information really helped my son realize that he is not the only one who has wetting accidents and has this problem at school. This mad emy son less self conscious and he was quite proud of himself when he told me I don't wear pull ups to school any more. I do good now. That whole sentence was wonderful to hear and he told me it with words. Boy he was so proud of the fact I understood his words the first time without asking him or guessing at the words. He was more proud of that than the actual staying dry during the day. I wish Josh and you both the best. As far as your ex goes. I have a suggestion for you. Maybe you can do what I did to my sons dad when his visits started to have a huge behavior and emotional impact on my son . I went to his ped and his dev ped and had them write up reports in regard to what my sons reaction to the visits was like. Then I went and filed court papers and eventually got his visits reduced to 1 hour supervised visits a week. Now dad has decided it wa snot worth it. Has been seen my son in years. It is the best thing for my son. He hates his father always has never like dhim even as a baby. Sad I know but you got to do what is best for the child. I realize you can not do this due to Josh . However maybe you can get his pyschiatrist and social worker to get involved in these issues with your ex. Maybe they can write reports for documentation or sit down with him and show him the affect. Maybe you should let him have a visit with Josh and maybe he might get to experience some of these behaviors himself. Maybe video tape them for him to see. Then maybe he might geta clue to his role in the behavioal issues. Its too bad that men can not see the effects on their children. Specifically our sons dads. I am not male bashing just talking about Sherry and my exes specifically. No one else. No offense meant at all. Take care Jeanne NH From: sherry silvern <srsilvern (DOT) com> Subject: Re: [childrensapraxiane t] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit @groups. com Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 5:36 PM Thank you Jeanne - I just read your email after composing one of my own about the quandry I'm in on this decision. I couldn't help but sit here crying over both your experiences and as a release for the fear I have with the idea of giving such meds to my Josh. After reading your email, it's even more clear to me that the idea of meds such as these absolutely should not be done without a whole lot of research and not just because we should " try it, you can always just take him off " in mind. Your experiences with the long term effects scares me all the more. I wish you luck in dealing with your health issues, and thank you for sharing. Sherry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I saw this article when it first came out -but I didn't post it because like Carol I found the study the article was pulled from. I had mixed feelings about reading the reports of side effects because I see what appears to have happened here in this group with a nonprescription product, and know that reported side effects may be downplayed by the company that stands to profit from sales. However years ago I as well as most others were not aware of the most recent reports on ADHD medications. Dr. Agin is one of the doctors who spoke to me about medication for Dakota -but there is no short list of medical doctors I took Dakota to at that time. Regardless I didn't in my heart feel putting Dakota on medication was right -so I didn't. Why since I didn't have any medically sound reason and was being advised " strongly " against my " feelings " Not knowing the long term side effects -something I always thought about since my aunt has her PhD in nursing and I grew up learning things about the medical field... my concern back then was that somehow Dakota's creativity which is so powerful would be stifled by the ADHD medication. I know this is probably a silly thought but I thought somehow it would zombie him in a way and I am a strange one in that I love his energy- his not in the box way of looking at the world. I stood by if it didn't affect his grades or friendship I didn't want to medicate. I too was told the adderall was something I could " try " or " use just during the week " but I feared that once in his body -it would change his brain in a way we'll never know. I didn't want to change his brain one bit -unless I absolutely had to. At that point I wasn't convinced Dakota needed to be on medication. Below is an archive on some of the history but as an update -my son Dakota is in all honors classes. He tends to be the absent minded professor from time to time (like this morning I had to drive to his HS to drop off his gym clothes that he forgot!) But Dakota is just brilliant in his observations. He interests right now are in both acting and architecture (I joke that he's starting on the As) Reading the article that was posted and the side effects some are having -it just saddens me. We all are aware that children are misdiagnosed every single day. It used to be ADHD -now the diagnosis du jour is autism of course. Someone I know casually told me that her cousin on the West coast of Florida just found out that her child needed a hearing aid and now he's starting to talk. Other than speech he was a " normal preschool child " So now all is great. Thing is that previous to this -many of the professionals highly suspected autism- this has been going on for awhile. Knowing a bit from me from casual conversation, this person told her cousin a few times " I don't think it's autism. I think you need to look into other reasons " Why did everyone suspect autism? ...the child wasn't talking. Why wouldn't anyone have thought first of a " speech and hearing " evaluation?! And why suspect autism if there were no other signs other than not talking? (I can get anyone the exact town or any other info if needed including name of doctors) But back to ADHD which used to be over diagnosed. I do believe Dakota does have ADHD -but I consider ADHD to be a positive thing if you can learn how to use it. We are fortunate in that the fish oils alone worked for Dakota -so for him they appear to have helped him learn how to succeed with ADHD! ~~~~~~~~~~start of archives: About the ADHD -my one son was diagnosed multiple times with it and at one point various neurologists (and teachers who highly " encouraged " ) wanted to put Dakota on adderall. We never put him on any medications and other than a healthy diet (most of the time) he's never been on a special diet and he's doing amazing! Thing is for apraxia is a slightly different formula I found to work - so you may have to play around with it. Here's the archives on that. Re: high dose fish oil for ADHD -- , can you speak to this? Dakota's on 10 a day -but it took years to figure out the correct formula and dosage for him. Back when he was first " suspected " of ADHD at 3 -we didn't know about fish oils for ADHD and there certainly wasn't anything out there like the durham trial to read about. This was my journey for learning about it for apraxia http://www.cherab.org/information/historyEFA.html but again back in the early days I didn't know it would help Dakota too. Not sure why we started Dakota -would have the check the archives -but we started giving Dakota the EFA " reject " formulas that didn't work for Tanner because we figured they are healthy no matter what. It's funny because even if I did read the research -most research only speaks of the Omega 3 in regards to psychological issues such as the work done by Stoll MD published in The Omega 3 Connection – but as you all may know –pure Omega 3 doesn't typically " work " for apraxia type conditions. Well I found pure Omega 3 didn't work for my ADHD son either. He too does much better on an Omega 3 formula with a bit of Omega 6 –but while Tanner my apraxic son appears to still require the formula (one capsule of ProEPA to 2 capsules of ProEFA -2 doses once a day in the AM plus 4 vitamin E alpha gamma mix) Dakota my ADHD son I have found through trial and error over the years requires a higher EPA, and a higher dosage in general then Tanner for the best results. (5 ProEFA and 5 ProEPA once a day in the AM –he does best if in school during lunch the nurse gives him one capsule of each –but he doesn't always follow that) That dosage is what has worked for him for a few years now. This is of course all anecdotal –but for the apraxia we know this has worked for the overwhelming majority –for ADHD we don't know as much -but on the other hand there is research that it works for ADHD (unlike apraxia –more funding for ADHD) Here's just some of the research (Dr. from what I know has used Efalex and more recently I believe the EyeQ which are two of the top three Omega 3/6 formulas used by this group in addition to the ProEFA. For some reason however many don't mention the small amount of GLA in the formula's used even if it's there –and should because without it I find it doesn't " work " ) One of the larger studies done by Dr. http://www.durhamtrial.org/ Here you can see they used Eye Q " For many, we have evidence that these problems can be eliminated by supplementing the diet with particular essential fatty acids. , as the other children in our pre-school trial, used eye q liquid, a formulation of the particular fatty acids crucial for brain function. The product, which is available over the counter, was supplied by a nutraceutical firm and delivers 558 mg of EPA, 174 mg of DHA and 60 mg of GLA. We chose to use a liquid, because it provided a high amount of EPA in fish oil, citrus flavoured that was more palatable for youngsters, who can have difficulties swallowing capsules. " http://www.durhamtrial.org/homne%20-%20child%20of%20our%20time.htm Here's just one of many articles about the most recent study on EFAs that Dr. AJ who spoke at the First Apraxia Conference was behind http://www.cherab.org/news/scientific.html Can fish oil supplements really boost your brain power? Get the lowdown: http://www.gm.tv/index.cfm?articleid=14487 And specific to ADHD: AJ. Department of Physiology, Human Anatomy and Genetics, University of Oxford, UK. alex.richardson@... Omega-3 fatty acids are dietary essentials, and are critical to brain development and function. Increasing evidence suggests that a relative lack of omega-3 may contribute to many psychiatric and neurodevelopmental disorders. This review focuses on the possible role of omega-3 in attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and related childhood developmental disorders, evaluating the existing evidence from both research and clinical perspectives. Theory and experimental evidence support a role for omega-3 in ADHD, dyslexia, developmental coordination disorder (DCD) and autism. Results from controlled treatment trials are mixed, but the few studies in this area have involved different populations and treatment formulations. Dietary supplementation with fish oils (providing EPA and DHA) appears to alleviate ADHD-related symptoms in at least some children, and one study of DCD children also found benefits for academic achievement. Larger trials are now needed to confirm these findings, and to establish the specificity and durability of any treatment effects as well as optimal formulations and dosages. Omega-3 is not supported by current evidence as a primary treatment for ADHD or related conditions, but further research in this area is clearly warranted. Given their relative safety and general health benefits, omega-3 fatty acids offer a promising complementary approach to standard treatments. PMID: 16777670 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd=ShowDetailView & TermToSear\ ch=16777670 & ordinalpos=1 & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_Res ultsPanel.\ Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus If we raise the EPA as high for my apraxic son (1/1 instead of 2/1) he regresses slightly -and we know we can't lower Dakota's dosage or EPA or he's so unfocused (!) which is why for years now we stick to what is working for both. From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...> Date: Wed Oct 30, 2002 3:14 pm Subject: Re: Global apraxia and ADD link? Hi Kim! Dr. Stordy I believe was the first to state this for our (dyspraxic) children. However -Dr. and Dr. Portwook state the " research has already shown a clear link between diet and some of the behavioral and learning problems associated with dyslexia, dyspraxia and ADHD. Certain key fatty acids found in fish oil and evening primrose are crucial in shaping brain development and function, but they have been disappearing from many modern diets. These fatty acids matter to everyone, but they seem particularly crucial for individuals predisposed to these kinds of specific learning difficulties. " http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/po/020322.shtml The success is because they used an O3/O6 formula with higher EPA. I know this because of my ADHD son Dakota's amazing results with EFAs without drugs. It (again) also doesn't matter which brand name you use -or even if you use borage or primrose oil for the small amount of GLA (Omega 6) It does matter that you use fish oil together with a small amount of primrose or borage oil -I've tried both and happen to like the borage more -that's personal preference. You see when I first learned about EFAs -or fish oils in 1999, I heard about Efalex -probably due to Dr. Stordy's work on dyspraxic children leaking out to a handful of parents of apraxic children. http://www.drstordy.com I started Tanner on Efalex -and that is when he had amazing changes in just weeks -however -when that bottle ran out -I ran out to the store and bought " fish oil " ...after all -I thought they all stink and they were all the same. I tried various fish oils -and the only one that " worked " and that Tanner didn't regress on was Efalex - 3 and a half years ago -ProEFA or EyeQ didn't exist. In spite of ADHD suspected -I never gave Dakota any fish oil until September 2000 when Dr. Stordy's book came out and I read The LCP Solution when I learned it could help ADHD too. We just didn't know. I again messed up and gave Dakota all the reject fish oils that didn't work for Tanner -which ended up being all the pure Omega 3 fish oil capsules - just DHA and EPA -because again -that's (unfortunately) all reported -the importance of either the DHA or EPA (Omega 3) Dakota had little change on the Omega 3 alone either - same as apraxic children. Over time I started Dakota on the Efalex too -and in school they reported positive results of that -but he was still considered either ADD or APD by various teachers and pediatric neurologists and Dr. Agin too. After Tanner had the surges on ProEFA on a much smaller -one capsule a day (and cheaper) dosage of ProEFA -I switched both my boys to ProEFA. The Efalex at 4-6 capsules a day was getting to be over $17 a week! Again -Dakota had improvements - but as I reported here to the group -and to the neurologists -it didn't help as dramatically as they helped Tanner and others like him. I was highly encouraged by more than one neurologist to begin Dakota on Aderol " He doesn't have enough dopamine and it's just going to keep getting harder for him " My husband and I were and are resistant to medicating Dakota. Again -my brother was ADHD -and yes he was a handful -however he was the youngest captain ever -and was then made the youngest maritime law partner in one of the world's largest Maritime Law Firms. I'm from the school of thought that ADHD adults can achieve more than the average if they just learn how to channel the energy. When CHERAB hosted The First Apraxia Conference -I had the pleasure to speak with Dr. -and she told me about EPA at that time. I then read about the research Dr. did with higher EPA and ADHD -and was thrilled. Anything to not do meds for Dakota. Soon after I ordered the ProEPA to " up " the EPA in the ProEFA for Dakota. (the rest of the story is here http://www.speechville.com/alternative-therapy/efa-faqs.html (and more http://www.cherab.org/information/indexinformation.html#diet ) (I have Dakota and Tanner on a 2 to one ratio. One ProEFA to 1/2 of ProEPA, or 2 ProEFA to 1 ProEPA) It's been well over a year now - and it was a year before I told anyone here at the list. I waited to see if what worked for my two -was also working better for others that I spoke to. Yes it did. Unfortunately -no US company is making the right formula we need. How good is the higher EPA added to the ProEFA? I'll put it this way -Dr. Sinha -Dakota's last neurologist from Bridgewater, NJ asked me for the exact formula she noticed such a difference -and if she can have others call me. She said " There is no point even seeing me again " She then added " Dakota will probably make an excellent doctor " Each intelligence test he has received (he was classified at the end of last year by the school as ADHD so that has been about four times now counting the private neurologist testing too) has shown a marked huge increase in his testing from above average -to superior. Dakota in some cases almost tests perfect now in areas! His grades again in third grade were straight A's with one B -and most impressive -an A in " conduct " too! The teacher doesn't notice any ADHD characteristics -and most that I've met here when I tell them that Dakota was classified in NJ as ADHD state how " oh they just like to diagnose these kids " Try to explain that to all his past teachers & MD's! Dakota was hyper -and still can be at times - however -he now knows how to focus and learn. If you have a child with ADHD -the best thing I can tell you is that once I gave Dakota the higher EPA with the Omega 3/6 -for the first time in his life since he's been walking -he actually stayed with my cart at the supermarket!!! (you have no idea!) What's amazing is that the higher EPA has also worked wonders for Tanner. Again -wait till you guys hear the talking page update. Tanner's report card doesn't have grades -but he's on target for all -reading, writing -and also -speech too! You can read about Dr Stordy at the link above. Here is some information on the other doctors who did the study on EFAs to treat ADHD/dyslexia Dr Dr is a Senior Research Fellow in Neuroscience at the Imperial College School of Medicine at Hammersmith Hospital in London, Co-Director of the Neuropsychiatry Research Group at the MRI Unit there, and a Research Affiliate at the University Laboratory of Physiology, Oxford. Her current research centres on the role of fatty acids in neurodevelopmental and psychiatric disorders. Recent work includes treatment studies that show beneficial effects of fatty acid supplements in the management of dyslexia, dyspraxia and ADHD and reveal insights into the likely mechanisms underlying this kind of treatment. Dr Madeleine Portwood Dr Madeleine Portwood is a Senior Educational Psychologist in County Durham. Her research over the last eleven years has involved more than 400 children / young adults and their families. Since publication in 1996 her book " Developmental Dyspraxia – a practical manual for parents and professionals " has sold more than 10,000 copies, not only in the UK, but in many other countries including the USA, South Africa, Australia, Iceland, Greece, China and Singapore. Professionals have purchased more than half, mainly teachers who have designed and implemented school based programmes to develop the skills of their pupils. Madeleine's work has been the subject of television documentaries, radio and newspaper features. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~end of archives ===== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Hi Jeanne, Ive been to a different doctors but it doesnt seem like anyone can really get into a full picture of my son. Ive written on message boards,researched , had him tested for special ed and tried different natural approaches . I cant afford to pay for the doctors that I feel woul dig deep into his issues and figure out the best way to help. I was contemplating going to a doctor who writes many books on being in the mix....adhd aspergers sensory .....and he charges 800.00 . lol I think I just wrote about my son because day to day. he is a challenge and I am at the point where I dont even want to send him to school because he has such a hard time. Unfortunately , I cant homeschool him because my youngest has apraxia and I have to work with him too . I see a lot of the same behaviors in my young guy that I see my oldest. Interestingly enough. Well, thanks so much for writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I hear you about the issues regarding school. My son hates school it is a fight to get him to go every morning. He has told that at the age of 10 he wants to quit. I feel horrible to have to send him. He has such a hard time in his academics . i hate to send him myself. I too wish i could homeschool him . I also can not do it. I for another reason. I admit I would not have the patience to work with him. I feel so bad that i am afraid I would let him get away with not doing the work. I feel so bad for him. My heart wrenches at the thought of him at school all day. Unfortunately I live in a school district that does not and will not pay for an out of district placement for they feel they can educate him. I hear about the money thing also. All the good specailist are so expensive. SIGH......... I was talking with my mom yesterdaya bout how my son feels about school. I actually told my mom that if he could I would go and sign the papers for him to quit school. In NH the age has been raised to 18. Then i would go and enroll him in an alternative school called a charter school they have where I live for children who have dropped out for emotional issues or been placed by an agency in one. Their program is individually adapted to the childs style of learning. Good Luck. So our daily battles continue. Jeanne NH From: ali mccahey <sweetysource@...> Subject: Re: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 10:51 AM Hi Jeanne, Ive been to a different doctors but it doesnt seem like anyone can really get into a full picture of my son. Ive written on message boards,researched , had him tested for special ed and tried different natural approaches . I cant afford to pay for the doctors that I feel woul dig deep into his issues and figure out the best way to help. I was contemplating going to a doctor who writes many books on being in the mix....adhd aspergers sensory .....and he charges 800.00 . lol I think I just wrote about my son because day to day. he is a challenge and I am at the point where I dont even want to send him to school because he has such a hard time. Unfortunately , I cant homeschool him because my youngest has apraxia and I have to work with him too . I see a lot of the same behaviors in my young guy that I see my oldest. Interestingly enough. Well, thanks so much for writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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