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http://www.naturalnews.com/025433.html

 

New research published in the journal Pediatrics reveals that the ADHD drugs

prescribed to millions of children are causing them to experience frightening

hallucinations. Children on these drugs hallucinated that snakes and bugs were

crawling all over them, says Reuters, and some kids taking the drugs experience

other bizarre psychotic side effects such as thinking they ran into a wall and

falling to the ground even when no wall was present.

ADHD drugs, of course, are powerful psychotropic mind-altering chemicals that

are often molecularly identical to street drugs. The industry of psychiatry is

virtually owned by Big Pharma, which hopes to drug every child, teenager and

adult with at least one mind-altering medication.

The drugs reviewed in this study include: Ritalin and Focalin XR (Novartis),

Adderall XR and Daytrana patch (Shire), Concerta ( & ), Strattera

(Eli Lilly), Metadate CD (Celltech Pharmaceuticals) and Provigil (Cephalon).

Researchers noticed that only children taking these drugs suffered from

hallucinations. Those taking placebo had no hallucinations, and the children who

stopped taking ADHD drugs saw their hallucinations cease.

Reuters reports that " …FDA researchers urged doctors to discuss the potential

side effects with parents and children to help ease their anxiety if such

symptoms should occur. " So instead of getting their kids off these drugs, the

FDA thinks parents and kids just need to " talk about the hallucinations " to ease

their anxiety.

And if that's not enough, I suppose, there are anti-anxiety drugs they can both

take in order to avoid getting too uptight about the fact that their children

are on hallucinogenic drugs.

Stop the insanity!

I'm just going to come right out and say the obvious: These children are

tripping out on hallucinogenic, mind-altering street drugs. This isn't

" treatment " for some genuine health problem; it's a legalized mass-drugging

campaign that's permanently harming the brains of children while earning sick

profits for Big Pharma.

The psychiatric pill pushers have managed to turn a generation of children into

druggies who are now demonstrating the same symptoms as a street junkie burnout.

And rather than trying to get kids OFF these drugs, the FDA, Big Pharma and

modern psychiatrists are doing everything in their power to put MORE kids on

these dangerous, hallucinogenic drugs!

That this continues in America today is outrageous. In a nation that spends

billions of dollars on the so-called " War on Drugs " -- see the Drug War Clock at

http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm -- to ignore the mass drugging of its own

children with hallucinogenic street drugs relabeled as " medication " is

unconscionable.

If there's really a War on Drugs, why doesn't that war target the biggest drug

pushers of all? Big Pharma has put more kids on drugs than any street corner

crack dealer could ever hope to achieve. In fact, the entire industry of

psychiatric medicine is little more than a legalized drug dealing network that

hides behind the jargon of " medicine " and " therapy. "

Mind-numbed parents lead to drugged children

It's not just the industry that's to blame on all this, either: Parents who

allow their children to be drugged with these hallucinogenic ADHD drugs are just

as much a part of the problem. In the same households where parents are

adamantly restricting their child's use of pot or alcohol, they will literally

feed that same kid dose after dose of hallucinogenic street drugs on the advice

of a psychiatric medicine quack who's on the take from Big Pharma.

What are they thinking? Say no to drugs, but say yes to hallucinogenic

psychotropic drugs if a corrupt psychiatrist tells you your kid needs them?

Somehow, when speed is labeled under Big Pharma's brand names, it eludes all

rational thinking by parents, doctors, pharmacists and drug war zealots. It is

one of the largest sectors of the hallucinogenic drug trade in America, and yet

it goes completely unnoticed by virtually everyone.

My latest hip-hop song takes a shot at mind-altering medications with some

disturbing, uncensored lyrics. Listen to " SSRIs - S.S.R.Lies " here:

http://www.naturalnews.com/SSRIs_S_...

The ugly truth about the War on Drugs

The War on Drugs, of course, was never really about ending drug use in the first

place. It was about eliminating the competition for Big Pharma, making sure kids

get off generic black market drugs and get onto brand-name Big Pharma drugs. To

legitimize this mass drugging of children, the industry of modern psychiatry was

created, with all its imaginary (hallucinated?) disorders and dysfunctions used

to befuddle the public with seemingly intelligent-sounding technical jargon.

It's all just drug-pushing psychobabble, of course. Disorders like ADHD are

purely fictional, having no basis in reality whatsoever, and the brain shrinkage

pointed to by psychiatrists who claim ADHD causes stunted growth is actually the

result of the amphetamine drugs they put the kids on. It is well documented that

drugs like Ritalin cause stunted grown and reduced brain size

(http://www.naturalnews.com/021944.html).

The degree of quackery present in the psychiatric industry today is simply

staggering. And to think that mainstream doctors defend this quackery is yet

more evidence that modern medicine has nothing whatsoever to do with actual

science; it's all based on a Cult of Pharmacology where all drugs are considered

good and necessary, regardless of the mountain of evidence showing them to be

dangerous and medically useless.

This is where I have to challenge all the so-called " skeptics " out there who

attack natural medicine. These skeptics and self-proclaimed quack observers are,

in fact, among the greatest quacks of all. Why? Because they aren't skeptical in

the least about psychiatric medicine!

The skeptics are quacks

Where is the skepticism about this home-grown brand of legalized drug pushing?

Where are all the intelligent questions demanding proof that ADHD is a genuine

disease and not just something made up to sell more drugs? The skeptics are

silent when it comes to psychiatric medicine, and in their silence they reveal

themselves to be quacks.

Logic, reason and scientific evidence are all thrown out the window on the

subject of psychiatric disorders. The most rational-sounding skeptics are

instantly transformed into psychobabble-spouting quacks who defend the

indefensible -- the mass drugging of children with powerful hallucinogenic

street drugs as " treatment " for some imaginary disease.

Sure, the skeptics will attack meditation, crystals, prayer, intention,

chiropractic care and even herbal medicine (all of which can be healing, by the

way), but when it comes to the loopy loose logic of psychiatric medicine

inventing diseases and drugging up the children with hallucinogenic

amphetamines, they swallow the whole thing without blinking an eye!

So much for the credibility of the so-called skeptics and quack busters. It

turns out they're quacks themselves. They've simply subscribed to their own form

of quackery: Drugs and surgery for all!

The quacks are on crack, and they're supporting an industry that hands out speed

to the children. Meanwhile, the War on Drugs fills the prisons with people who

smoked a little weed while completely ignoring the psychiatric pill pushers.

Crazy, huh? I'm beginning to thinking everybody's on drugs!

Just remember, folks: If you want to sell drugs to kids, just get FDA approval

first. It keeps the DEA off your back and fools parents into thinking your

hallucinogenic drugs are " medicine. "

 

About the author: Mike is a natural health researcher and author with a

mission to teach personal and planetary health to the public He is a prolific

writer and has published thousands of articles, interviews, reports and consumer

guides, impacting the lives of millions of readers around the world who are

experiencing phenomenal health benefits from reading his articles. is an

honest, independent journalist and accepts no money or commissions on the

third-party products he writes about or the companies he promotes. In 2007,

launched EcoLEDs, a manufacturer of mercury-free, energy-efficient LED

lighting products that save electricity and help prevent global warming. He's

also a successful software entrepreneur, having founded a well known email

marketing software company whose technology currently powers the NaturalNews

email newsletters. volunteers his time to serve as the executive director

of the Consumer Wellness Center, a

501©3 non-profit organization, and pursues hobbies such as Pilates, Capoeira,

nature macrophotography and organic gardening. Known on the 'net as 'the Health

Ranger,' shares his ethics, mission statements and personal health

statistics at www.HealthRanger.org

Love, Gabby. :0)

http://stemcellforautism.blogspot.com/

 

" I know of nobody who is purely Autistic or purely neurotypical. Even God had

some Autistic moments, which is why the planets all spin. " ~ Jerry Newport

 

 

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Share on other sites

Seriously???

I hope we're supposed to laugh at this, and not agree with it.

From the abstract of the article in Pediatrics (located here:

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/123/2/611):

" A total of 11 psychosis/mania adverse events occurred during 743

person-years of double-blind treatment with these drugs... " ELEVEN.

Events. Not even that 11 children had repeated events. There were

11 instances of psychosis/mania adverse events.

Of course, it's good to know, and terrible for those kids, and

important to address. But Mike would have you believe that

every child taking an ADHD medication is having these: " the ADHD

drugs prescribed to millions of children are causing them to

experience frightening hallucinations. Children on these drugs

hallucinated... " He insinuates that any medication prescribed by any

psychiatrist may as well be crack cocaine: " ...psychobabble-spouting

quacks who defend the indefensible -- the mass drugging of children

with powerful hallucinogenic street drugs as " treatment " for some

imaginary disease. "

I wouldn't even be responding, except I'm afraid there are people out

there who might listen to him.

Sigh. He says, " Disorders like ADHD are purely fictional, having no

basis in reality whatsoever... " He's as bad as Savage, who

said autistic kids just needed a good spank to make them shape up and

stop being brats.

Sigh again. I'm sorry, I'm sure I've offended someone, if not many

of you...that wasn't my intention. It just irritates the crap out of

me when people take one problem associated with anything (not just

medicine) and twist it into their own extreme version of " truth, "

dragging sincerely concerned people with them.

Some drugs do have negative side effects. Absolutely. But that

doesn't make the whole field " a legalized mass-drugging campaign

that's permanently harming the brains of children while earning sick

profits for Big Pharma. " Jeesh.

Carole

>

> http://www.naturalnews.com/025433.html

>  

> New research published in the journal Pediatrics reveals that the

ADHD drugs prescribed to millions of children are causing them to

experience frightening hallucinations. Children on these drugs

hallucinated that snakes and bugs were crawling all over them, says

Reuters, and some kids taking the drugs experience other bizarre

psychotic side effects such as thinking they ran into a wall and

falling to the ground even when no wall was present.

>

> ADHD drugs, of course, are powerful psychotropic mind-altering

chemicals that are often molecularly identical to street drugs. The

industry of psychiatry is virtually owned by Big Pharma, which hopes

to drug every child, teenager and adult with at least one mind-

altering medication.

>

> The drugs reviewed in this study include: Ritalin and Focalin XR

(Novartis), Adderall XR and Daytrana patch (Shire), Concerta (

& ), Strattera (Eli Lilly), Metadate CD (Celltech

Pharmaceuticals) and Provigil (Cephalon).

>

> Researchers noticed that only children taking these drugs suffered

from hallucinations. Those taking placebo had no hallucinations, and

the children who stopped taking ADHD drugs saw their hallucinations

cease.

>

> Reuters reports that " …FDA researchers urged doctors to discuss the

potential side effects with parents and children to help ease their

anxiety if such symptoms should occur. " So instead of getting their

kids off these drugs, the FDA thinks parents and kids just need

to " talk about the hallucinations " to ease their anxiety.

>

> And if that's not enough, I suppose, there are anti-anxiety drugs

they can both take in order to avoid getting too uptight about the

fact that their children are on hallucinogenic drugs.

>

>

> Stop the insanity!

> I'm just going to come right out and say the obvious: These

children are tripping out on hallucinogenic, mind-altering street

drugs. This isn't " treatment " for some genuine health problem; it's a

legalized mass-drugging campaign that's permanently harming the

brains of children while earning sick profits for Big Pharma.

>

> The psychiatric pill pushers have managed to turn a generation of

children into druggies who are now demonstrating the same symptoms as

a street junkie burnout. And rather than trying to get kids OFF these

drugs, the FDA, Big Pharma and modern psychiatrists are doing

everything in their power to put MORE kids on these dangerous,

hallucinogenic drugs!

>

> That this continues in America today is outrageous. In a nation

that spends billions of dollars on the so-called " War on Drugs " --

see the Drug War Clock at http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm -- to

ignore the mass drugging of its own children with hallucinogenic

street drugs relabeled as " medication " is unconscionable.

>

> If there's really a War on Drugs, why doesn't that war target the

biggest drug pushers of all? Big Pharma has put more kids on drugs

than any street corner crack dealer could ever hope to achieve. In

fact, the entire industry of psychiatric medicine is little more than

a legalized drug dealing network that hides behind the jargon

of " medicine " and " therapy. "

>

>

> Mind-numbed parents lead to drugged children

> It's not just the industry that's to blame on all this, either:

Parents who allow their children to be drugged with these

hallucinogenic ADHD drugs are just as much a part of the problem. In

the same households where parents are adamantly restricting their

child's use of pot or alcohol, they will literally feed that same kid

dose after dose of hallucinogenic street drugs on the advice of a

psychiatric medicine quack who's on the take from Big Pharma.

>

> What are they thinking? Say no to drugs, but say yes to

hallucinogenic psychotropic drugs if a corrupt psychiatrist tells you

your kid needs them?

>

> Somehow, when speed is labeled under Big Pharma's brand names, it

eludes all rational thinking by parents, doctors, pharmacists and

drug war zealots. It is one of the largest sectors of the

hallucinogenic drug trade in America, and yet it goes completely

unnoticed by virtually everyone.

>

> My latest hip-hop song takes a shot at mind-altering medications

with some disturbing, uncensored lyrics. Listen to " SSRIs -

S.S.R.Lies " here: http://www.naturalnews.com/SSRIs_S_...

>

>

> The ugly truth about the War on Drugs

> The War on Drugs, of course, was never really about ending drug use

in the first place. It was about eliminating the competition for Big

Pharma, making sure kids get off generic black market drugs and get

onto brand-name Big Pharma drugs. To legitimize this mass drugging of

children, the industry of modern psychiatry was created, with all its

imaginary (hallucinated?) disorders and dysfunctions used to befuddle

the public with seemingly intelligent-sounding technical jargon.

>

> It's all just drug-pushing psychobabble, of course. Disorders like

ADHD are purely fictional, having no basis in reality whatsoever, and

the brain shrinkage pointed to by psychiatrists who claim ADHD causes

stunted growth is actually the result of the amphetamine drugs they

put the kids on. It is well documented that drugs like Ritalin cause

stunted grown and reduced brain size

(http://www.naturalnews.com/021944.html).

>

> The degree of quackery present in the psychiatric industry today is

simply staggering. And to think that mainstream doctors defend this

quackery is yet more evidence that modern medicine has nothing

whatsoever to do with actual science; it's all based on a Cult of

Pharmacology where all drugs are considered good and necessary,

regardless of the mountain of evidence showing them to be dangerous

and medically useless.

>

> This is where I have to challenge all the so-called " skeptics " out

there who attack natural medicine. These skeptics and self-proclaimed

quack observers are, in fact, among the greatest quacks of all. Why?

Because they aren't skeptical in the least about psychiatric medicine!

>

>

> The skeptics are quacks

> Where is the skepticism about this home-grown brand of legalized

drug pushing? Where are all the intelligent questions demanding proof

that ADHD is a genuine disease and not just something made up to sell

more drugs? The skeptics are silent when it comes to psychiatric

medicine, and in their silence they reveal themselves to be quacks.

>

> Logic, reason and scientific evidence are all thrown out the window

on the subject of psychiatric disorders. The most rational-sounding

skeptics are instantly transformed into psychobabble-spouting quacks

who defend the indefensible -- the mass drugging of children with

powerful hallucinogenic street drugs as " treatment " for some

imaginary disease.

>

> Sure, the skeptics will attack meditation, crystals, prayer,

intention, chiropractic care and even herbal medicine (all of which

can be healing, by the way), but when it comes to the loopy loose

logic of psychiatric medicine inventing diseases and drugging up the

children with hallucinogenic amphetamines, they swallow the whole

thing without blinking an eye!

>

> So much for the credibility of the so-called skeptics and quack

busters. It turns out they're quacks themselves. They've simply

subscribed to their own form of quackery: Drugs and surgery for all!

>

> The quacks are on crack, and they're supporting an industry that

hands out speed to the children. Meanwhile, the War on Drugs fills

the prisons with people who smoked a little weed while completely

ignoring the psychiatric pill pushers. Crazy, huh? I'm beginning to

thinking everybody's on drugs!

>

> Just remember, folks: If you want to sell drugs to kids, just get

FDA approval first. It keeps the DEA off your back and fools parents

into thinking your hallucinogenic drugs are " medicine. "

>  

> About the author: Mike is a natural health researcher and

author with a mission to teach personal and planetary health to the

public He is a prolific writer and has published thousands of

articles, interviews, reports and consumer guides, impacting the

lives of millions of readers around the world who are experiencing

phenomenal health benefits from reading his articles. is an

honest, independent journalist and accepts no money or commissions on

the third-party products he writes about or the companies he

promotes. In 2007, launched EcoLEDs, a manufacturer of mercury-

free, energy-efficient LED lighting products that save electricity

and help prevent global warming. He's also a successful software

entrepreneur, having founded a well known email marketing software

company whose technology currently powers the NaturalNews email

newsletters. volunteers his time to serve as the executive

director of the Consumer Wellness Center, a

> 501©3 non-profit organization, and pursues hobbies such as

Pilates, Capoeira, nature macrophotography and organic gardening.

Known on the 'net as 'the Health Ranger,' shares his ethics,

mission statements and personal health statistics at

www.HealthRanger.org

>

>

>

> Love, Gabby. :0)

> http://stemcellforautism.blogspot.com/

>  

> " I know of nobody who is purely Autistic or purely neurotypical.

Even God had some Autistic moments, which is why the planets all

spin. " ~ Jerry Newport

>  

>  

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, goes a bit far in his fanaticism, true, but he does have a point.  I

recently took Josh for his first appt (he's 10yo) with a shrink and before we

even really sat down, the doc was recommending Celexa and DDVAP (for

bedwetting).  I've always been opposed to the use of meds, seeking instead to

find more holistic and therapeutic interventions for some of Josh's behavior

issues (he's always done the " fight " of the " fight or flight " response to

sensory input).  Doc made a point that we've tried 10 years of such and it's

still going on, but, really, almost everything I've read is that the use of meds

such as Celexa (in particular) for anxiety in kids simply has not been

researched enough.  And, the use of those types of meds that are really

anti-depressants for kids under 18 has led to some extremely serious

consequences (suicidal ideation, etc.).  I'm still struggling with the idea and

am seeking out as much input as I can get on the use of

the meds (BTW, I did try the bed-wetting med and Josh got sick as a dog two

days after starting it - lowest dose possible - I've stopped it and I'm just

hanging onto those coupons for Depends!) but it is something that scare the hell

(sorry for the language) out of me!  These are SSRIs or psychotropic meds we're

dealing with, and our children's brains, futures, and possibly lives - it's not

anything to laugh at either way.

Sherry

________________________________

From: cbwildes <cbwildes@...>

Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 10:00:47 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children;

Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit

Seriously???

I hope we're supposed to laugh at this, and not agree with it.

From the abstract of the article in Pediatrics (located here:

http://pediatrics. aappublications. org/cgi/content/ abstract/ 123/2/611):

" A total of 11 psychosis/mania adverse events occurred during 743

person-years of double-blind treatment with these drugs... " ELEVEN.

Events. Not even that 11 children had repeated events. There were

11 instances of psychosis/mania adverse events.

Of course, it's good to know, and terrible for those kids, and

important to address. But Mike would have you believe that

every child taking an ADHD medication is having these: " the ADHD

drugs prescribed to millions of children are causing them to

experience frightening hallucinations. Children on these drugs

hallucinated. .. " He insinuates that any medication prescribed by any

psychiatrist may as well be crack cocaine: " ...psychobabble- spouting

quacks who defend the indefensible -- the mass drugging of children

with powerful hallucinogenic street drugs as " treatment " for some

imaginary disease. "

I wouldn't even be responding, except I'm afraid there are people out

there who might listen to him.

Sigh. He says, " Disorders like ADHD are purely fictional, having no

basis in reality whatsoever.. . " He's as bad as Savage, who

said autistic kids just needed a good spank to make them shape up and

stop being brats.

Sigh again. I'm sorry, I'm sure I've offended someone, if not many

of you...that wasn't my intention. It just irritates the crap out of

me when people take one problem associated with anything (not just

medicine) and twist it into their own extreme version of " truth, "

dragging sincerely concerned people with them.

Some drugs do have negative side effects. Absolutely. But that

doesn't make the whole field " a legalized mass-drugging campaign

that's permanently harming the brains of children while earning sick

profits for Big Pharma. " Jeesh.

Carole

>

> http://www.naturaln ews.com/025433. html

>  

> New research published in the journal Pediatrics reveals that the

ADHD drugs prescribed to millions of children are causing them to

experience frightening hallucinations. Children on these drugs

hallucinated that snakes and bugs were crawling all over them, says

Reuters, and some kids taking the drugs experience other bizarre

psychotic side effects such as thinking they ran into a wall and

falling to the ground even when no wall was present.

>

> ADHD drugs, of course, are powerful psychotropic mind-altering

chemicals that are often molecularly identical to street drugs. The

industry of psychiatry is virtually owned by Big Pharma, which hopes

to drug every child, teenager and adult with at least one mind-

altering medication.

>

> The drugs reviewed in this study include: Ritalin and Focalin XR

(Novartis), Adderall XR and Daytrana patch (Shire), Concerta (

& ), Strattera (Eli Lilly), Metadate CD (Celltech

Pharmaceuticals) and Provigil (Cephalon).

>

> Researchers noticed that only children taking these drugs suffered

from hallucinations. Those taking placebo had no hallucinations, and

the children who stopped taking ADHD drugs saw their hallucinations

cease.

>

> Reuters reports that " …FDA researchers urged doctors to discuss the

potential side effects with parents and children to help ease their

anxiety if such symptoms should occur. " So instead of getting their

kids off these drugs, the FDA thinks parents and kids just need

to " talk about the hallucinations " to ease their anxiety.

>

> And if that's not enough, I suppose, there are anti-anxiety drugs

they can both take in order to avoid getting too uptight about the

fact that their children are on hallucinogenic drugs.

>

>

> Stop the insanity!

> I'm just going to come right out and say the obvious: These

children are tripping out on hallucinogenic, mind-altering street

drugs. This isn't " treatment " for some genuine health problem; it's a

legalized mass-drugging campaign that's permanently harming the

brains of children while earning sick profits for Big Pharma.

>

> The psychiatric pill pushers have managed to turn a generation of

children into druggies who are now demonstrating the same symptoms as

a street junkie burnout. And rather than trying to get kids OFF these

drugs, the FDA, Big Pharma and modern psychiatrists are doing

everything in their power to put MORE kids on these dangerous,

hallucinogenic drugs!

>

> That this continues in America today is outrageous. In a nation

that spends billions of dollars on the so-called " War on Drugs " --

see the Drug War Clock at http://www.drugsens e.org/wodclock. htm -- to

ignore the mass drugging of its own children with hallucinogenic

street drugs relabeled as " medication " is unconscionable.

>

> If there's really a War on Drugs, why doesn't that war target the

biggest drug pushers of all? Big Pharma has put more kids on drugs

than any street corner crack dealer could ever hope to achieve. In

fact, the entire industry of psychiatric medicine is little more than

a legalized drug dealing network that hides behind the jargon

of " medicine " and " therapy. "

>

>

> Mind-numbed parents lead to drugged children

> It's not just the industry that's to blame on all this, either:

Parents who allow their children to be drugged with these

hallucinogenic ADHD drugs are just as much a part of the problem. In

the same households where parents are adamantly restricting their

child's use of pot or alcohol, they will literally feed that same kid

dose after dose of hallucinogenic street drugs on the advice of a

psychiatric medicine quack who's on the take from Big Pharma.

>

> What are they thinking? Say no to drugs, but say yes to

hallucinogenic psychotropic drugs if a corrupt psychiatrist tells you

your kid needs them?

>

> Somehow, when speed is labeled under Big Pharma's brand names, it

eludes all rational thinking by parents, doctors, pharmacists and

drug war zealots. It is one of the largest sectors of the

hallucinogenic drug trade in America, and yet it goes completely

unnoticed by virtually everyone.

>

> My latest hip-hop song takes a shot at mind-altering medications

with some disturbing, uncensored lyrics. Listen to " SSRIs -

S.S.R.Lies " here: http://www.naturaln ews.com/SSRIs_ S_...

>

>

> The ugly truth about the War on Drugs

> The War on Drugs, of course, was never really about ending drug use

in the first place. It was about eliminating the competition for Big

Pharma, making sure kids get off generic black market drugs and get

onto brand-name Big Pharma drugs. To legitimize this mass drugging of

children, the industry of modern psychiatry was created, with all its

imaginary (hallucinated? ) disorders and dysfunctions used to befuddle

the public with seemingly intelligent- sounding technical jargon.

>

> It's all just drug-pushing psychobabble, of course. Disorders like

ADHD are purely fictional, having no basis in reality whatsoever, and

the brain shrinkage pointed to by psychiatrists who claim ADHD causes

stunted growth is actually the result of the amphetamine drugs they

put the kids on. It is well documented that drugs like Ritalin cause

stunted grown and reduced brain size

(http://www.naturaln ews.com/021944. html).

>

> The degree of quackery present in the psychiatric industry today is

simply staggering. And to think that mainstream doctors defend this

quackery is yet more evidence that modern medicine has nothing

whatsoever to do with actual science; it's all based on a Cult of

Pharmacology where all drugs are considered good and necessary,

regardless of the mountain of evidence showing them to be dangerous

and medically useless.

>

> This is where I have to challenge all the so-called " skeptics " out

there who attack natural medicine. These skeptics and self-proclaimed

quack observers are, in fact, among the greatest quacks of all. Why?

Because they aren't skeptical in the least about psychiatric medicine!

>

>

> The skeptics are quacks

> Where is the skepticism about this home-grown brand of legalized

drug pushing? Where are all the intelligent questions demanding proof

that ADHD is a genuine disease and not just something made up to sell

more drugs? The skeptics are silent when it comes to psychiatric

medicine, and in their silence they reveal themselves to be quacks.

>

> Logic, reason and scientific evidence are all thrown out the window

on the subject of psychiatric disorders. The most rational-sounding

skeptics are instantly transformed into psychobabble- spouting quacks

who defend the indefensible -- the mass drugging of children with

powerful hallucinogenic street drugs as " treatment " for some

imaginary disease.

>

> Sure, the skeptics will attack meditation, crystals, prayer,

intention, chiropractic care and even herbal medicine (all of which

can be healing, by the way), but when it comes to the loopy loose

logic of psychiatric medicine inventing diseases and drugging up the

children with hallucinogenic amphetamines, they swallow the whole

thing without blinking an eye!

>

> So much for the credibility of the so-called skeptics and quack

busters. It turns out they're quacks themselves. They've simply

subscribed to their own form of quackery: Drugs and surgery for all!

>

> The quacks are on crack, and they're supporting an industry that

hands out speed to the children. Meanwhile, the War on Drugs fills

the prisons with people who smoked a little weed while completely

ignoring the psychiatric pill pushers. Crazy, huh? I'm beginning to

thinking everybody's on drugs!

>

> Just remember, folks: If you want to sell drugs to kids, just get

FDA approval first. It keeps the DEA off your back and fools parents

into thinking your hallucinogenic drugs are " medicine. "

>  

> About the author: Mike is a natural health researcher and

author with a mission to teach personal and planetary health to the

public He is a prolific writer and has published thousands of

articles, interviews, reports and consumer guides, impacting the

lives of millions of readers around the world who are experiencing

phenomenal health benefits from reading his articles. is an

honest, independent journalist and accepts no money or commissions on

the third-party products he writes about or the companies he

promotes. In 2007, launched EcoLEDs, a manufacturer of mercury-

free, energy-efficient LED lighting products that save electricity

and help prevent global warming. He's also a successful software

entrepreneur, having founded a well known email marketing software

company whose technology currently powers the NaturalNews email

newsletters. volunteers his time to serve as the executive

director of the Consumer Wellness Center, a

> 501©3 non-profit organization, and pursues hobbies such as

Pilates, Capoeira, nature macrophotography and organic gardening.

Known on the 'net as 'the Health Ranger,' shares his ethics,

mission statements and personal health statistics at

www.HealthRanger. org

>

>

>

> Love, Gabby. :0)

> http://stemcellfora utism.blogspot. com/

>  

> " I know of nobody who is purely Autistic or purely neurotypical.

Even God had some Autistic moments, which is why the planets all

spin. " ~ Jerry Newport

>  

>  

>

>

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Sherry, you are absolutely right, it is definitely a serious

matter...my question of laughing was just at some of ' ludicrous

conclusions and generalizations.

I totally agree, these can be dangerous meds, and the decision to try

them should never be taken lightly. And I agree that many

psychiatrists jump to medicating as 'the' solution WAY too fast, and

they seem to often discount the value of trying non-medicinal things

first. Sometimes, though, medication IS the only solution.

Sometimes several have to be tried to see if they're beneficial at

all or have negative side effects. I hate that about medicines; they

react differently to everyone. This is true of all medications, not

just psychotropics. The scariest part is that the side effects of

the psychotropics could, as you said, cause things as terrible as

suicide attempts. (shiver)

Ugh, it's all so difficult and scary, trying to help our children!

Because there are those kids who were failing school, relationships,

everything until they got the right medication...and who are now

successful students with friends.

I know there are parents out there who just toss medications at their

kids just to make their (the parents') lives easier. But I know that

everyone on this board is working their hardest to figure out and do

what is truly best for their children. Maybe what made me so mad

about this article, besides the extremes he created out of nothing,

is how he talked about parents. None of the parents I know of are

throwing 'street drugs' at their kids. Keeping your child from

alcohol and pot is absolutely compatible with giving them a

medication that they need, even if it's a psychotropic medication.

But equates all psychotropics with crack, and comes across as

thinking pot is better.

Sigh. I worry that a parent who is giving their child a psychotropic

medication will read ' article and decide to stop the medication

without talking to their doctor first -- it can be very dangerous to

do that, but if I had been convinced by this article, I certainly

wouldn't be calling my (apparently corrupt drug-dealing) doctor for

directions!

I apologize for seeming to laugh about the underlying issues here; I

should have taken more time too 'cool off' a bit before writing!

Carole

>

> OK, goes a bit far in his fanaticism, true, but he does have

a point.  I recently took Josh for his first appt (he's 10yo) with a

shrink and before we even really sat down, the doc was recommending

Celexa and DDVAP (for bedwetting).  I've always been opposed to the

use of meds, seeking instead to find more holistic and therapeutic

interventions for some of Josh's behavior issues (he's always done

the " fight " of the " fight or flight " response to sensory input).  Doc

made a point that we've tried 10 years of such and it's still going

on, but, really, almost everything I've read is that the use of meds

such as Celexa (in particular) for anxiety in kids simply has not

been researched enough.  And, the use of those types of meds that are

really anti-depressants for kids under 18 has led to some extremely

serious consequences (suicidal ideation, etc.).  I'm still struggling

with the idea and am seeking out as much input as I can get on the

use of

> the meds (BTW, I did try the bed-wetting med and Josh got sick as

a dog two days after starting it - lowest dose possible - I've

stopped it and I'm just hanging onto those coupons for Depends!) but

it is something that scare the hell (sorry for the language) out of

me!  These are SSRIs or psychotropic meds we're dealing with, and our

children's brains, futures, and possibly lives - it's not anything to

laugh at either way.

>

> Sherry

>

>

>

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Hello Everyone,

 

I have to jump in on this conversation. I am 34 yo. I have taken many different

types of pychotropic  as well as SSRIS medications in my life as an adult for

various mental  health related issues. I have to tell you all that these

two types of meds no matter what they are as names go. They are extremely

dangerous to be taking. There are significant side effects with them all to

varying degrees. Yes they were prescribed to me by a psychiatrist. The side

effects of hallucinations, suicidal ideation, tremors,confusion etc. These I

have experienced myself at one time or anther due to these types of medications.

I actually decided to go off them completely 4 years ago after having been opn

many different ones for years. I went off them due to bad side effects I was

having with them, some them are as follows one med depakote actually was eating

away my red blood cells made me very sick I was in the hospital for a long

period of time. I know depakote is

also an anti seizure med it is very good for that I hear. very bad med to

taking as a psych med. I have suffered effects on my heart from extremely low

blood pressure dangerously low and now have minor heart things going on. I now

suffer from migraines that put me in bed some days they hurt so bad. Yes these

are all the effects I now have to live with due to taking these types of meds.

Yes it has been proven medically to have been caused by the meds I took.

 

Plese we are talking about our children here most of thwem still pretty young

age wise. Please if you need to give them to your children get all the info you

can on them it is very important to know the side effects to look for they can

be life threatening. Please use extreme caution with them all. Even ADHD drugs

can be dangerous.

 

But also keep in mind that pyschotropic and SSRIs can be used safely and are

safe to be used by the right person for the right diagnosis. Some people no

choice but to take them they very lives depend on them. I know many people who

can not function without these meds.

 

These meds are not to be used as a first option by no means. They actually

should be considered the last option to try. So I agree with you all . Please

try something else before trying these meds on your kids. They do work

effectively if they need them.

 

To my knowledge some of these meds are used a lot in  the medical community and

prescribed a lot by general medical doctors. thats fine for some of the meds.

 

But I believe that most of the psychotropic medications should only be precribed

by a psychiatrist who is familiar with these drugs. They are some very addictive

medications some of them are.

 

On a side note I ahve to add soemthing to you all on a comment in the article

which was mentioned.

 

I have taken a lot of these meds myself. Speaking from someone who has taken

some of them zoloft,risperdal,seraquel,trazadone,activan, depakote just to name

a few. These drugs are like taking  COCAINE if your on high doses like I was. It

is not when you have been on them for a while. The effect is in the first 6 to 8

wks you start them. It feels like your high as a kite. They make you feel woozy

and funny,you hallucinate etc. I did this on seroquel when I first started

taking it. It felt horrible. I stopped taking it within afew days it was like

being in a trance for me. Words can not describe the experience. It was scary

and not fun.  So truthfully it is not a laughing matter. The guy was actually

stating the truth on that. However it is not like taking POT at all. Never done

any drugs in my life not street ones or hard core ones at all. Just these meds

if you want to call them drugs then fine. They certainly give you the same

feeling from my

experience.

 

Just thought everyone would like an inside scoop on these meds from somebody who

has experience with them. I meant with actually taking them for a long period of

time. Who also took them for the reason they were developed mental health

reasons.

 

I hope youa ll find the right things to help your children. I hope it is an

alternative to these types of medications.

 

As a parent I would never ever give any of these meds to my own son who is 10 yo

for any reason at all. They actually wanted to give him one of these meds for

his attention issues at school. I told them some things that can not be

repeated. They would have to take me to court in order to do it. They backed

down fast on that one. I told trhem they could learn to deal with at school. At

home is fine and has a long attention span.

 

Jeanne

NH

From: cbwildes <cbwildes@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children;

Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit

Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 12:30 PM

Sherry, you are absolutely right, it is definitely a serious

matter...my question of laughing was just at some of ' ludicrous

conclusions and generalizations.

I totally agree, these can be dangerous meds, and the decision to try

them should never be taken lightly. And I agree that many

psychiatrists jump to medicating as 'the' solution WAY too fast, and

they seem to often discount the value of trying non-medicinal things

first. Sometimes, though, medication IS the only solution.

Sometimes several have to be tried to see if they're beneficial at

all or have negative side effects. I hate that about medicines; they

react differently to everyone. This is true of all medications, not

just psychotropics. The scariest part is that the side effects of

the psychotropics could, as you said, cause things as terrible as

suicide attempts. (shiver)

Ugh, it's all so difficult and scary, trying to help our children!

Because there are those kids who were failing school, relationships,

everything until they got the right medication.. .and who are now

successful students with friends.

I know there are parents out there who just toss medications at their

kids just to make their (the parents') lives easier. But I know that

everyone on this board is working their hardest to figure out and do

what is truly best for their children. Maybe what made me so mad

about this article, besides the extremes he created out of nothing,

is how he talked about parents. None of the parents I know of are

throwing 'street drugs' at their kids. Keeping your child from

alcohol and pot is absolutely compatible with giving them a

medication that they need, even if it's a psychotropic medication.

But equates all psychotropics with crack, and comes across as

thinking pot is better.

Sigh. I worry that a parent who is giving their child a psychotropic

medication will read ' article and decide to stop the medication

without talking to their doctor first -- it can be very dangerous to

do that, but if I had been convinced by this article, I certainly

wouldn't be calling my (apparently corrupt drug-dealing) doctor for

directions!

I apologize for seeming to laugh about the underlying issues here; I

should have taken more time too 'cool off' a bit before writing!

Carole

>

> OK, goes a bit far in his fanaticism, true, but he does have

a point.  I recently took Josh for his first appt (he's 10yo) with a

shrink and before we even really sat down, the doc was recommending

Celexa and DDVAP (for bedwetting).  I've always been opposed to the

use of meds, seeking instead to find more holistic and therapeutic

interventions for some of Josh's behavior issues (he's always done

the " fight " of the " fight or flight " response to sensory input).  Doc

made a point that we've tried 10 years of such and it's still going

on, but, really, almost everything I've read is that the use of meds

such as Celexa (in particular) for anxiety in kids simply has not

been researched enough.  And, the use of those types of meds that are

really anti-depressants for kids under 18 has led to some extremely

serious consequences (suicidal ideation, etc.).  I'm still struggling

with the idea and am seeking out as much input as I can get on the

use of

> the meds (BTW, I did try the bed-wetting med and Josh got sick as

a dog two days after starting it - lowest dose possible - I've

stopped it and I'm just hanging onto those coupons for Depends!) but

it is something that scare the hell (sorry for the language) out of

me!  These are SSRIs or psychotropic meds we're dealing with, and our

children's brains, futures, and possibly lives - it's not anything to

laugh at either way.

>

> Sherry

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Hello again everyone,

 

I have to add something else to this post. I have to agrre with you carole.

 

Most of what this guy had to say is based on his own opinion and not actual

facts.

 

Not all ADHD drugs cause these side effects. Some of them are known to better

than others. But keep in mind every person does not react the same to every

drug. Thats why there are millions of them out there and at least 20 or more

that do the same thing but are different in some way. Not every one can take the

same med.

 

This man sound like a hypocrite to me. He does have soem good points as I

mentioned before.

 

I think everyone should pick and choose what they believe to be true.

 

But my advice is check them out throughly before deciding one particular one to

try. Research them well and make sure you choose the one that best fits the

symptoms and will work the best.

 

There is one very dangerous ADHD drug out there or was out there that did

actually do these things and have these effects on children. It is called

RITALIN. It did have actual cases of causing dangerous and serious effects on

children. That is medically proven. I have not heard anything about it recently

due to I think they might of took it off the market not sure though.

 

There is another ADHD drug that I heard about that was causing some big debate

though in regards to these types of issues. I do not remember the name though.

 

In another aspect something everyone should be awareof. I heard on the TV a few

days ago that 3 pychotropic drugs on the market are causing some people to have

dangerous and serious complications with their health. One named was SEROQUEL. I

do not remember the other 2 names.

 

Jeanne

NH

From: cbwildes <cbwildes@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children;

Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit

Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 11:00 AM

Seriously???

I hope we're supposed to laugh at this, and not agree with it.

From the abstract of the article in Pediatrics (located here:

http://pediatrics. aappublications. org/cgi/content/ abstract/ 123/2/611):

" A total of 11 psychosis/mania adverse events occurred during 743

person-years of double-blind treatment with these drugs... " ELEVEN.

Events. Not even that 11 children had repeated events. There were

11 instances of psychosis/mania adverse events.

Of course, it's good to know, and terrible for those kids, and

important to address. But Mike would have you believe that

every child taking an ADHD medication is having these: " the ADHD

drugs prescribed to millions of children are causing them to

experience frightening hallucinations. Children on these drugs

hallucinated. .. " He insinuates that any medication prescribed by any

psychiatrist may as well be crack cocaine: " ...psychobabble- spouting

quacks who defend the indefensible -- the mass drugging of children

with powerful hallucinogenic street drugs as " treatment " for some

imaginary disease. "

I wouldn't even be responding, except I'm afraid there are people out

there who might listen to him.

Sigh. He says, " Disorders like ADHD are purely fictional, having no

basis in reality whatsoever.. . " He's as bad as Savage, who

said autistic kids just needed a good spank to make them shape up and

stop being brats.

Sigh again. I'm sorry, I'm sure I've offended someone, if not many

of you...that wasn't my intention. It just irritates the crap out of

me when people take one problem associated with anything (not just

medicine) and twist it into their own extreme version of " truth, "

dragging sincerely concerned people with them.

Some drugs do have negative side effects. Absolutely. But that

doesn't make the whole field " a legalized mass-drugging campaign

that's permanently harming the brains of children while earning sick

profits for Big Pharma. " Jeesh.

Carole

>

> http://www.naturaln ews.com/025433. html

>  

> New research published in the journal Pediatrics reveals that the

ADHD drugs prescribed to millions of children are causing them to

experience frightening hallucinations. Children on these drugs

hallucinated that snakes and bugs were crawling all over them, says

Reuters, and some kids taking the drugs experience other bizarre

psychotic side effects such as thinking they ran into a wall and

falling to the ground even when no wall was present.

>

> ADHD drugs, of course, are powerful psychotropic mind-altering

chemicals that are often molecularly identical to street drugs. The

industry of psychiatry is virtually owned by Big Pharma, which hopes

to drug every child, teenager and adult with at least one mind-

altering medication.

>

> The drugs reviewed in this study include: Ritalin and Focalin XR

(Novartis), Adderall XR and Daytrana patch (Shire), Concerta (

& ), Strattera (Eli Lilly), Metadate CD (Celltech

Pharmaceuticals) and Provigil (Cephalon).

>

> Researchers noticed that only children taking these drugs suffered

from hallucinations. Those taking placebo had no hallucinations, and

the children who stopped taking ADHD drugs saw their hallucinations

cease.

>

> Reuters reports that " …FDA researchers urged doctors to discuss the

potential side effects with parents and children to help ease their

anxiety if such symptoms should occur. " So instead of getting their

kids off these drugs, the FDA thinks parents and kids just need

to " talk about the hallucinations " to ease their anxiety.

>

> And if that's not enough, I suppose, there are anti-anxiety drugs

they can both take in order to avoid getting too uptight about the

fact that their children are on hallucinogenic drugs.

>

>

> Stop the insanity!

> I'm just going to come right out and say the obvious: These

children are tripping out on hallucinogenic, mind-altering street

drugs. This isn't " treatment " for some genuine health problem; it's a

legalized mass-drugging campaign that's permanently harming the

brains of children while earning sick profits for Big Pharma.

>

> The psychiatric pill pushers have managed to turn a generation of

children into druggies who are now demonstrating the same symptoms as

a street junkie burnout. And rather than trying to get kids OFF these

drugs, the FDA, Big Pharma and modern psychiatrists are doing

everything in their power to put MORE kids on these dangerous,

hallucinogenic drugs!

>

> That this continues in America today is outrageous. In a nation

that spends billions of dollars on the so-called " War on Drugs " --

see the Drug War Clock at http://www.drugsens e.org/wodclock. htm -- to

ignore the mass drugging of its own children with hallucinogenic

street drugs relabeled as " medication " is unconscionable.

>

> If there's really a War on Drugs, why doesn't that war target the

biggest drug pushers of all? Big Pharma has put more kids on drugs

than any street corner crack dealer could ever hope to achieve. In

fact, the entire industry of psychiatric medicine is little more than

a legalized drug dealing network that hides behind the jargon

of " medicine " and " therapy. "

>

>

> Mind-numbed parents lead to drugged children

> It's not just the industry that's to blame on all this, either:

Parents who allow their children to be drugged with these

hallucinogenic ADHD drugs are just as much a part of the problem. In

the same households where parents are adamantly restricting their

child's use of pot or alcohol, they will literally feed that same kid

dose after dose of hallucinogenic street drugs on the advice of a

psychiatric medicine quack who's on the take from Big Pharma.

>

> What are they thinking? Say no to drugs, but say yes to

hallucinogenic psychotropic drugs if a corrupt psychiatrist tells you

your kid needs them?

>

> Somehow, when speed is labeled under Big Pharma's brand names, it

eludes all rational thinking by parents, doctors, pharmacists and

drug war zealots. It is one of the largest sectors of the

hallucinogenic drug trade in America, and yet it goes completely

unnoticed by virtually everyone.

>

> My latest hip-hop song takes a shot at mind-altering medications

with some disturbing, uncensored lyrics. Listen to " SSRIs -

S.S.R.Lies " here: http://www.naturaln ews.com/SSRIs_ S_...

>

>

> The ugly truth about the War on Drugs

> The War on Drugs, of course, was never really about ending drug use

in the first place. It was about eliminating the competition for Big

Pharma, making sure kids get off generic black market drugs and get

onto brand-name Big Pharma drugs. To legitimize this mass drugging of

children, the industry of modern psychiatry was created, with all its

imaginary (hallucinated? ) disorders and dysfunctions used to befuddle

the public with seemingly intelligent- sounding technical jargon.

>

> It's all just drug-pushing psychobabble, of course. Disorders like

ADHD are purely fictional, having no basis in reality whatsoever, and

the brain shrinkage pointed to by psychiatrists who claim ADHD causes

stunted growth is actually the result of the amphetamine drugs they

put the kids on. It is well documented that drugs like Ritalin cause

stunted grown and reduced brain size

(http://www.naturaln ews.com/021944. html).

>

> The degree of quackery present in the psychiatric industry today is

simply staggering. And to think that mainstream doctors defend this

quackery is yet more evidence that modern medicine has nothing

whatsoever to do with actual science; it's all based on a Cult of

Pharmacology where all drugs are considered good and necessary,

regardless of the mountain of evidence showing them to be dangerous

and medically useless.

>

> This is where I have to challenge all the so-called " skeptics " out

there who attack natural medicine. These skeptics and self-proclaimed

quack observers are, in fact, among the greatest quacks of all. Why?

Because they aren't skeptical in the least about psychiatric medicine!

>

>

> The skeptics are quacks

> Where is the skepticism about this home-grown brand of legalized

drug pushing? Where are all the intelligent questions demanding proof

that ADHD is a genuine disease and not just something made up to sell

more drugs? The skeptics are silent when it comes to psychiatric

medicine, and in their silence they reveal themselves to be quacks.

>

> Logic, reason and scientific evidence are all thrown out the window

on the subject of psychiatric disorders. The most rational-sounding

skeptics are instantly transformed into psychobabble- spouting quacks

who defend the indefensible -- the mass drugging of children with

powerful hallucinogenic street drugs as " treatment " for some

imaginary disease.

>

> Sure, the skeptics will attack meditation, crystals, prayer,

intention, chiropractic care and even herbal medicine (all of which

can be healing, by the way), but when it comes to the loopy loose

logic of psychiatric medicine inventing diseases and drugging up the

children with hallucinogenic amphetamines, they swallow the whole

thing without blinking an eye!

>

> So much for the credibility of the so-called skeptics and quack

busters. It turns out they're quacks themselves. They've simply

subscribed to their own form of quackery: Drugs and surgery for all!

>

> The quacks are on crack, and they're supporting an industry that

hands out speed to the children. Meanwhile, the War on Drugs fills

the prisons with people who smoked a little weed while completely

ignoring the psychiatric pill pushers. Crazy, huh? I'm beginning to

thinking everybody's on drugs!

>

> Just remember, folks: If you want to sell drugs to kids, just get

FDA approval first. It keeps the DEA off your back and fools parents

into thinking your hallucinogenic drugs are " medicine. "

>  

> About the author: Mike is a natural health researcher and

author with a mission to teach personal and planetary health to the

public He is a prolific writer and has published thousands of

articles, interviews, reports and consumer guides, impacting the

lives of millions of readers around the world who are experiencing

phenomenal health benefits from reading his articles. is an

honest, independent journalist and accepts no money or commissions on

the third-party products he writes about or the companies he

promotes. In 2007, launched EcoLEDs, a manufacturer of mercury-

free, energy-efficient LED lighting products that save electricity

and help prevent global warming. He's also a successful software

entrepreneur, having founded a well known email marketing software

company whose technology currently powers the NaturalNews email

newsletters. volunteers his time to serve as the executive

director of the Consumer Wellness Center, a

> 501©3 non-profit organization, and pursues hobbies such as

Pilates, Capoeira, nature macrophotography and organic gardening.

Known on the 'net as 'the Health Ranger,' shares his ethics,

mission statements and personal health statistics at

www.HealthRanger. org

>

>

>

> Love, Gabby. :0)

> http://stemcellfora utism.blogspot. com/

>  

> " I know of nobody who is purely Autistic or purely neurotypical.

Even God had some Autistic moments, which is why the planets all

spin. " ~ Jerry Newport

>  

>  

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Carole -

I think I understood what your point was, and I'm sorry for coming off upset

about it - ' conclusions were ludicrous, I agree, and his fanaticism

certainly came across in his tirade.  This is one of those subjects that has

been in the front of my own brain for the last three weeks, though.  I'm hashing

it all out with my ex, I've spoken to many other parents who do, did, have not,

would never, blah, blah, blah give the meds with all varying opinions on the

efficacy of them.  So, in short, I'm totally confused and I don't think that's

the best state of mind for me to be in in making the decision whether or not to

give them. 

The shrink says Celexa (the one he prescribed) can really help with anxiety and

thus the aggression that Josh displays when he has sensory overloads.  I just

got back from Josh's ped (6th grade physical!) and his practice does not

prescribe Celexa (they don't prescribe psychiatric meds) so he hasn't had any

experience with it but said he has heard it can control aggression and, hey,

what is there to lose for just trying it?  I can always take him off the meds

(he also said the practice rarely prescribes the bedwetting med the shrink

prescribed except for kids with enuresis who maybe want to go to overnight camp

or to an overnight party - it really is for their own self-esteem and to prevent

embarassment - Josh has not gotten to do overnights yet - and the ped said he

would be really surprised if Josh getting sick last week was related to the

med).   My ex says absolutely no on the SSRIs but, hey, let's give him Ritalin

(even though no one has yet

to come out and say for certain that Josh has ADHD).  I'm totally opposed to

psychotropics for many reasons and opposed to SSRIs because of the lack of

research on kids under 18.  On the other hand, as the shrink said, I've got a

kid who will strike at people, grab glasses off their faces, kick, or butt his

head when he is startled or is having sensory overload (Josh is not on

the autism spectrum - absolutely everybody agrees on that - but he does have

sensory integration dysfunction) and the traditional therapies that we've tried

are not being consistently and totally successful.  I'm a criminal lawyer and I

have this fear that someday Josh will strike out at someone because of his

sensory issues and his name will appear on a colleagues desk with Josh having

been charged with battery or something.  And, then there's Josh's clinical

social worker who keeps giving more and more strategies to deal with the issues

(and they are good ideas - some

we've done, some not), but his point is that everyone in Josh's life or

environment needs to be on the same page with the strategies so there is

consistency - something that is incredibly difficult to do (especially when

there are people at school who just don't get it!) and Josh, realistically, is

not going to be in this type of safe environment every minute of every day.

So, I'm really in a quandry.  I wish there was a summer camp, or a school that

deals only with kids with sensory integration dysfunction that would provide

REALLY intensive sensory training/therapy (and, of course, provide good speech

therapy for his apraxia!) without having to resort to any meds...  ah, well, I

can dream....

Sherry

________________________________

From: cbwildes <cbwildes@...>

Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 11:30:07 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children;

Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit

Sherry, you are absolutely right, it is definitely a serious

matter...my question of laughing was just at some of ' ludicrous

conclusions and generalizations.

I totally agree, these can be dangerous meds, and the decision to try

them should never be taken lightly. And I agree that many

psychiatrists jump to medicating as 'the' solution WAY too fast, and

they seem to often discount the value of trying non-medicinal things

first. Sometimes, though, medication IS the only solution.

Sometimes several have to be tried to see if they're beneficial at

all or have negative side effects. I hate that about medicines; they

react differently to everyone. This is true of all medications, not

just psychotropics. The scariest part is that the side effects of

the psychotropics could, as you said, cause things as terrible as

suicide attempts. (shiver)

Ugh, it's all so difficult and scary, trying to help our children!

Because there are those kids who were failing school, relationships,

everything until they got the right medication.. .and who are now

successful students with friends.

I know there are parents out there who just toss medications at their

kids just to make their (the parents') lives easier. But I know that

everyone on this board is working their hardest to figure out and do

what is truly best for their children. Maybe what made me so mad

about this article, besides the extremes he created out of nothing,

is how he talked about parents. None of the parents I know of are

throwing 'street drugs' at their kids. Keeping your child from

alcohol and pot is absolutely compatible with giving them a

medication that they need, even if it's a psychotropic medication.

But equates all psychotropics with crack, and comes across as

thinking pot is better.

Sigh. I worry that a parent who is giving their child a psychotropic

medication will read ' article and decide to stop the medication

without talking to their doctor first -- it can be very dangerous to

do that, but if I had been convinced by this article, I certainly

wouldn't be calling my (apparently corrupt drug-dealing) doctor for

directions!

I apologize for seeming to laugh about the underlying issues here; I

should have taken more time too 'cool off' a bit before writing!

Carole

>

> OK, goes a bit far in his fanaticism, true, but he does have

a point.  I recently took Josh for his first appt (he's 10yo) with a

shrink and before we even really sat down, the doc was recommending

Celexa and DDVAP (for bedwetting).  I've always been opposed to the

use of meds, seeking instead to find more holistic and therapeutic

interventions for some of Josh's behavior issues (he's always done

the " fight " of the " fight or flight " response to sensory input).  Doc

made a point that we've tried 10 years of such and it's still going

on, but, really, almost everything I've read is that the use of meds

such as Celexa (in particular) for anxiety in kids simply has not

been researched enough.  And, the use of those types of meds that are

really anti-depressants for kids under 18 has led to some extremely

serious consequences (suicidal ideation, etc.).  I'm still struggling

with the idea and am seeking out as much input as I can get on the

use of

> the meds (BTW, I did try the bed-wetting med and Josh got sick as

a dog two days after starting it - lowest dose possible - I've

stopped it and I'm just hanging onto those coupons for Depends!) but

it is something that scare the hell (sorry for the language) out of

me!  These are SSRIs or psychotropic meds we're dealing with, and our

children's brains, futures, and possibly lives - it's not anything to

laugh at either way.

>

> Sherry

>

>

>

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Thank you Jeanne - I just read your email after composing one of my own about

the quandry I'm in on this decision.  I couldn't help but sit here crying over

both your experiences and as a release for the fear I have with the idea of

giving such meds to my Josh.  After reading your email, it's even more clear to

me that the idea of meds such as these absolutely should not be done without a

whole lot of research and not just because we should " try it, you can always

just take him off " in mind.  Your experiences with the long term effects scares

me all the more.  I wish you luck in dealing with your health issues, and thank

you for sharing.

Sherry

________________________________

From: Jeanne <jamie199866@...>

Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:29:34 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in

Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit

Hello Everyone,

 

I have to jump in on this conversation. I am 34 yo. I have taken many different

types of pychotropic  as well as SSRIS medications in my life as an adult for

various mental  health related issues. I have to tell you all that these

two types of meds no matter what they are as names go. They are extremely

dangerous to be taking. There are significant side effects with them all to

varying degrees. Yes they were prescribed to me by a psychiatrist. The side

effects of hallucinations, suicidal ideation, tremors,confusion etc. These I

have experienced myself at one time or anther due to these types of medications.

I actually decided to go off them completely 4 years ago after having been opn

many different ones for years. I went off them due to bad side effects I was

having with them, some them are as follows one med depakote actually was eating

away my red blood cells made me very sick I was in the hospital for a long

period of time. I know depakote is

also an anti seizure med it is very good for that I hear. very bad med to taking

as a psych med. I have suffered effects on my heart from extremely low blood

pressure dangerously low and now have minor heart things going on. I now suffer

from migraines that put me in bed some days they hurt so bad. Yes these are all

the effects I now have to live with due to taking these types of meds. Yes it

has been proven medically to have been caused by the meds I took.

 

Plese we are talking about our children here most of thwem still pretty young

age wise. Please if you need to give them to your children get all the info you

can on them it is very important to know the side effects to look for they can

be life threatening.  Please use extreme caution with them all. Even ADHD drugs

can be dangerous.

 

But also keep in mind that pyschotropic and SSRIs can be used safely and are

safe to be used by the right person for the right diagnosis. Some people no

choice but to take them they very lives depend on them. I know many people who

can not function without these meds.

 

These meds are not to be used as a first option by no means. They actually

should be considered the last option to try. So I agree with you all . Please

try something else before trying these meds on your kids. They do work

effectively if they need them.

 

To my knowledge some of these meds are used a lot in  the medical community and

prescribed a lot by general medical doctors. thats fine for some of the meds.

 

But I believe that most of the psychotropic medications should only be precribed

by a psychiatrist who is familiar with these drugs. They are some very addictive

medications some of them are.

 

On a side note I ahve to add soemthing to you all on a comment in the article

which was mentioned.

 

I have taken a lot of these meds myself. Speaking from someone who has taken

some of them zoloft,risperdal, seraquel, trazadone, activan, depakote just to

name a few. These drugs are like taking  COCAINE if your on high doses like I

was. It is not when you have been on them for a while. The effect is in the

first 6 to 8 wks you start them. It feels like your high as a kite. They make

you feel woozy and funny,you hallucinate etc. I did this on seroquel when I

first started taking it. It felt horrible. I stopped taking it within afew days

it was like being in a trance for me. Words can not describe the experience. It

was scary and not fun.  So truthfully it is not a laughing matter. The guy was

actually stating the truth on that. However it is not like taking POT at all.

Never done any drugs in my life not street ones or hard core ones at all. Just

these meds if you want to call them drugs then fine. They certainly give you the

same feeling from my

experience.

 

Just thought everyone would like an inside scoop on these meds from somebody who

has experience with them. I meant with actually taking them for a long period of

time. Who also took them for the reason they were developed mental health

reasons.

 

I hope youa ll find the right things to help your children. I hope it is an

alternative to these types of medications.

 

As a parent I would never ever give any of these meds to my own son who is 10 yo

for any reason at all. They actually wanted to give him one of these meds for

his attention issues at school. I told them some things that can not be

repeated. They would have to take me to court in order to do it. They backed

down fast on that one. I told trhem they could learn to deal with at school. At

home is fine and has a long attention span.

 

Jeanne

NH

From: cbwildes <cbwildes (DOT) com>

Subject: [childrensapraxiane t] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children;

Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit

@groups. com

Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 12:30 PM

Sherry, you are absolutely right, it is definitely a serious

matter...my question of laughing was just at some of ' ludicrous

conclusions and generalizations.

I totally agree, these can be dangerous meds, and the decision to try

them should never be taken lightly. And I agree that many

psychiatrists jump to medicating as 'the' solution WAY too fast, and

they seem to often discount the value of trying non-medicinal things

first. Sometimes, though, medication IS the only solution.

Sometimes several have to be tried to see if they're beneficial at

all or have negative side effects. I hate that about medicines; they

react differently to everyone. This is true of all medications, not

just psychotropics. The scariest part is that the side effects of

the psychotropics could, as you said, cause things as terrible as

suicide attempts. (shiver)

Ugh, it's all so difficult and scary, trying to help our children!

Because there are those kids who were failing school, relationships,

everything until they got the right medication.. .and who are now

successful students with friends.

I know there are parents out there who just toss medications at their

kids just to make their (the parents') lives easier. But I know that

everyone on this board is working their hardest to figure out and do

what is truly best for their children. Maybe what made me so mad

about this article, besides the extremes he created out of nothing,

is how he talked about parents. None of the parents I know of are

throwing 'street drugs' at their kids. Keeping your child from

alcohol and pot is absolutely compatible with giving them a

medication that they need, even if it's a psychotropic medication.

But equates all psychotropics with crack, and comes across as

thinking pot is better.

Sigh. I worry that a parent who is giving their child a psychotropic

medication will read ' article and decide to stop the medication

without talking to their doctor first -- it can be very dangerous to

do that, but if I had been convinced by this article, I certainly

wouldn't be calling my (apparently corrupt drug-dealing) doctor for

directions!

I apologize for seeming to laugh about the underlying issues here; I

should have taken more time too 'cool off' a bit before writing!

Carole

>

> OK, goes a bit far in his fanaticism, true, but he does have

a point.  I recently took Josh for his first appt (he's 10yo) with a

shrink and before we even really sat down, the doc was recommending

Celexa and DDVAP (for bedwetting).  I've always been opposed to the

use of meds, seeking instead to find more holistic and therapeutic

interventions for some of Josh's behavior issues (he's always done

the " fight " of the " fight or flight " response to sensory input).  Doc

made a point that we've tried 10 years of such and it's still going

on, but, really, almost everything I've read is that the use of meds

such as Celexa (in particular) for anxiety in kids simply has not

been researched enough.  And, the use of those types of meds that are

really anti-depressants for kids under 18 has led to some extremely

serious consequences (suicidal ideation, etc.).  I'm still struggling

with the idea and am seeking out as much input as I can get on the

use of

> the meds (BTW, I did try the bed-wetting med and Josh got sick as

a dog two days after starting it - lowest dose possible - I've

stopped it and I'm just hanging onto those coupons for Depends!) but

it is something that scare the hell (sorry for the language) out of

me!  These are SSRIs or psychotropic meds we're dealing with, and our

children's brains, futures, and possibly lives - it's not anything to

laugh at either way.

>

> Sherry

>

>

>

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If you have an autism program nearby, you might find something that meets his

needs.   Emory in Atlanta has an autism center and MARCUS has a school.

 

I know UCLA has a program as well.

 

 

Just a thought.

 

 

sl

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Hi ! I couldnt help but reply with my struggle with my child who is

ADHd and has anxiety and has had his self esteem completely

diminished when teacher's point out to him and the whole class that

they cant believe he lost something or that he cant answer a

question. My child is really smart but I can tell you that he just

will not focus. He is completely inconsistent when it comes to

school and at home ....and also I have two other children who watch

power struggles day after day and it affects the whole family. So,

my son is not on meds but he is not doind well in school and is

actually really put off by school. He used to love science but his

teacher embarasses him and he dreads science now. The one class

where the teacher is kind and enthusiastic is the only class he does

well in .....If I could just keep my son at home all the time , I

can handle his lack of listening and anger ....but in real life when

I am not there, all these people are not so receptive that he is not

on meds and has a very hard time organizing and paying attention ....

( along with a lot of other things that he has problems with like

sensory problems , anxiety etc. So, sometimes parents are desperate

because we can see that our children are bright , they just might

learn differently or have issues that teachers make fun of. At least

thats my experience where everyday I know my son is not reaching his

full potential and not putting him on meds might hurt him more. My

son is not on meds but I am not sure where to turn.

> Thank you Jeanne - I just read your email after composing one of

my own about the quandry I'm in on this decision.  I couldn't help

but sit here crying over both your experiences and as a release for

the fear I have with the idea of giving such meds to my Josh.  After

reading your email, it's even more clear to me that the idea of meds

such as these absolutely should not be done without a whole lot of

research and not just because we should " try it, you can always just

take him off " in mind.  Your experiences with the long term effects

scares me all the more.  I wish you luck in dealing with your health

issues, and thank you for sharing.

>

> Sherry

>

>

>

>

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Hi ,

 

In your sons case it might be benficial to research your options in order to

help him. I can see where your at a point your not sure what to do. I am no

expert just another parent on the board. I wish you and your son and family the

very best. It might be woth maybe looking into the med route to help your son.

Again it come sdown to a personal decision. There are safe meds out there you

just have to find the right one for your son. Good luck.

 

Jeanne

NH

From: sweetysource <sweetysource@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in Children;

Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit

Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 7:44 PM

Hi ! I couldnt help but reply with my struggle with my child who is

ADHd and has anxiety and has had his self esteem completely

diminished when teacher's point out to him and the whole class that

they cant believe he lost something or that he cant answer a

question. My child is really smart but I can tell you that he just

will not focus. He is completely inconsistent when it comes to

school and at home ....and also I have two other children who watch

power struggles day after day and it affects the whole family. So,

my son is not on meds but he is not doind well in school and is

actually really put off by school. He used to love science but his

teacher embarasses him and he dreads science now. The one class

where the teacher is kind and enthusiastic is the only class he does

well in .....If I could just keep my son at home all the time , I

can handle his lack of listening and anger ....but in real life when

I am not there, all these people are not so receptive that he is not

on meds and has a very hard time organizing and paying attention ....

( along with a lot of other things that he has problems with like

sensory problems , anxiety etc. So, sometimes parents are desperate

because we can see that our children are bright , they just might

learn differently or have issues that teachers make fun of. At least

thats my experience where everyday I know my son is not reaching his

full potential and not putting him on meds might hurt him more. My

son is not on meds but I am not sure where to turn.

> Thank you Jeanne - I just read your email after composing one of

my own about the quandry I'm in on this decision.  I couldn't help

but sit here crying over both your experiences and as a release for

the fear I have with the idea of giving such meds to my Josh.  After

reading your email, it's even more clear to me that the idea of meds

such as these absolutely should not be done without a whole lot of

research and not just because we should " try it, you can always just

take him off " in mind.  Your experiences with the long term effects

scares me all the more.  I wish you luck in dealing with your health

issues, and thank you for sharing.

>

> Sherry

>

>

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Hi Sherry,

 

I am sorry to hear about Joshs bad experience with the medicatio he took for his

bed wetting. What a horrible side effect. thank you for your good wishes. I am

doing ok medically now that the meds have been out of my system for several

years now. I still experience horrible headaches but I take meds for them. Keep

in mind though that I am an adult. I also was taking very high doese of these

meds at the time. The depakote alone was over 3,000 milligrams day. Which is way

too high to begin with. I can not imagine what your going through with your son.

The try it and take him off it approach is not the best thing to do. Some of

these meds you have to gradually weaned of of them if your on them for long

periods of time.

 

I wish you and Josh the very best on your journey to find a solution to help

Josh.

 

On a side note though. I am also struggling with a 10 yo bed wetter. My son

never seemed to gain the night time control. He still wets most nights even

though he wakes to go in the night and goes before bed. I just put a goodnight

on him and make sure the bed is protected. I am not sure what to do either. I

just try not to get upset over it to much. I do not want my son to feel bad

about it though. We are trying hard to night time control. I am going the med

route though. He trained very late at 6 yo. He has low muscle tone. During the

day sometimes he has trouble holding it for long periods of time. Good luck.

Pleas edo not feel your alone on the bed wetting. Actually investing in depends

might be a good idea for night time less messy i would hope.

 

Jeanne

NH

From: sherry silvern <srsilvern@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in

Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit

Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 5:36 PM

Thank you Jeanne - I just read your email after composing one of my own about

the quandry I'm in on this decision.  I couldn't help but sit here crying over

both your experiences and as a release for the fear I have with the idea of

giving such meds to my Josh.  After reading your email, it's even more clear to

me that the idea of meds such as these absolutely should not be done without a

whole lot of research and not just because we should " try it, you can always

just take him off " in mind.  Your experiences with the long term effects scares

me all the more.  I wish you luck in dealing with your health issues, and thank

you for sharing.

Sherry

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Hi Jeanne -

Yep, not making him feel bad about it definitely helps.  And, it's really no big

deal to me - a mattress protector, depends, and it's nothing.  I wonder, though,

if he's getting a deep enough sleep, though, and if he's not sleeping as well as

he should is that having an effect on behavior and aggression during the day. It

was interesting when the doc talked about medicine for not wetting during the

night, Josh said he wanted it!  I know there are times, like your son, that

during the day, if he waits too long or if he gets really upset/excited about

something or if the teacher or aide make him wait a little too long, he

sometimes wets and he gets really, really embarassed.  Like today - they had a

half day of school and I knew I'd be picking him up early.  He said he wanted to

wear just regular underpants (he's regressed in the last several months -

emotional stuff going on with my ex not doing his visits consistently or enough,

and an aide at

school that he's having problems with - he started wearing depends during the

day with his underpants even though he's been in just underpants during the day

for about three or four years) and I said that would be great.  Well, apparently

the teacher/aide didn't have him go pee before the end of the 1/2 day and we

waited so he could watch all the buses go, and he had an accident.  He was so

upset, and I felt terrible for him.  So, even with my being encouraging and

supportive about the nighttime bedwetting, he still has his feelings.  The meds

would help him maybe, if he didn't have the reaction to them.  But, as the ped

and the shrink said, there really is no way to tell whether he had the flu or it

really was the meds except to try them again.  Maybe we'll give it another

shot.  The ped did say that it's possible that when he gets off the meds (and

apparently a kid is only supposed to be on them for a set period of time) he

could likely just go

back to peeing during the night, so, really, I'm wondering what the point would

be.  I keep hoping the muscle tone/sensory issues will improve so he'll outgrow

it but, even if he doesn't, there are depends that go up to a pretty good size! 

It's interesting, it's almost comforting for Josh to know there are other

people, adults in particular, who have dealt with bedwetting - one of my

brothers did until he was about 12yo and, voila, it just stopped.  Josh's

emotional things right now are definitely not helping matters and my ex doesn't

stop to think (or accept) that some of Josh's issues right now just might be

related to my ex's behavior.  But, that's a whole 'nuther story!

Thanks for the words of support, and good luck with your son!

Sherry and Josh

________________________________

From: Jeanne <jamie199866@...>

Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 7:47:32 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in

Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit

Hi Sherry,

 

I am sorry to hear about Joshs bad experience with the medicatio he took for his

bed wetting. What a horrible side effect. thank you for your good wishes. I am

doing ok medically now that the meds have been out of my system for several

years now. I still experience horrible headaches but I take meds for them. Keep

in mind though that I am an adult. I also was taking very high doese of these

meds at the time. The depakote alone was over 3,000 milligrams day. Which is way

too high to begin with. I can not imagine what your going through with your son.

The try it and take him off it approach is not the best thing to do. Some of

these meds you have to gradually weaned of of them if your on them for long

periods of time.

 

I wish you and Josh the very best on your journey to find a solution to help

Josh.

 

On a side note though. I am also struggling with a 10 yo bed wetter. My son

never seemed to gain the night time control. He still wets most nights even

though he wakes to go in the night and goes before bed. I just put a goodnight

on him and make sure the bed is protected. I am not sure what to do either. I

just try not to get upset over it to much. I do not want my son to feel bad

about it though. We are trying hard to night time control. I am going the med

route though. He trained very late at 6 yo. He has low muscle tone. During the

day sometimes he has trouble holding it for long periods of time. Good luck.

Pleas edo not feel your alone on the bed wetting. Actually investing in depends

might be a good idea for night time less messy i would hope.

 

Jeanne

NH

From: sherry silvern <srsilvern (DOT) com>

Subject: Re: [childrensapraxiane t] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in

Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit

@groups. com

Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 5:36 PM

Thank you Jeanne - I just read your email after composing one of my own about

the quandry I'm in on this decision.  I couldn't help but sit here crying over

both your experiences and as a release for the fear I have with the idea of

giving such meds to my Josh.  After reading your email, it's even more clear to

me that the idea of meds such as these absolutely should not be done without a

whole lot of research and not just because we should " try it, you can always

just take him off " in mind.  Your experiences with the long term effects scares

me all the more.  I wish you luck in dealing with your health issues, and thank

you for sharing.

Sherry

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Sherry,

 

I am sorry to hear to that your ex is not helping Josh any and is not supportive

of you and your care of him. Yep my also has the same issues with someone

upsets him and when excited. The wetting during the day is usually not a big

issue for him at school though not sof ar anyway. He has has accidents at school

in the past though. The school knew he did and i just sent in some extra sets of

clothes for him with a package of wipes in his backpack ( in case heaven forbid

he had the other kind which sometimes happened too.) I always sent him to school

in regular underpants without anything in them from age 7 on so from 1st grade

on. I did not want him to feel self conscious. The wetting at school stopped

after his aide realized that if says he has to go. He has to go now not

five minutes later. He can not wait. It helped a lot that they started making

regular frequent bathroom trips a part of his daily routine. Like when he left

the room  for

ST and OT they visited the rest room before going. Before art, gym etc

also,before lunch,before recess ect. It took a lot of time but he eventually did

not need extra clothes anymore. Now in 4 th grade he is doing well unless sick

with daytime wetting and now knows to tell us he has to go. Now if he is sick we

just use goodnights the whole time and don't worry about it. We try our best and

the rest is oh well. Wehn he is tired he has  ahrd time controlling his muscles

i noticed.

 

Night time is our biggest hurdle too. No mattrer how many times he goes before

bed he always seems to wet the goodnights. Soaking through them sometimes. The

depends is a good idea though for protection. I undertand making them self

conscious does not help the child at all. Just keep at it and eventually

hopefully it will stop.

 

Poor Josh sorry to hear about his accident. How embarrassing for him. Maybe the

med is a good idea if Josh wants to try it. Although I have to agree with

you about the fact that it does not sound like it is going to make a difference.

 

On a lighter note. My son came home from school at the beginning of the year. He

told me that one of his friends (he told me his name YES!) wears pull ups to

school. This boy is like 11 or 12 he is in 5th grade. He is in the special ed

class resource room with my son. Anyway I got to answer lots of questions about

it. Anyway my point is this. This information really helped my son realize that

he is not the only one who has wetting accidents and has this problem at school.

This mad emy son less self conscious and he was quite proud of himself when he

told me  I don't wear pull ups to school any more. I do good now. That whole

sentence was wonderful to hear and he told me it with words. Boy he was so proud

of the fact I understood his words the first time without asking him or guessing

at the words. He was more proud of that than the actual staying dry during the

day.

 

I wish Josh and you both the best.

 

As far as your ex goes. I have a suggestion for you. Maybe you can do what I did

to my sons dad when his visits started to have a huge behavior and emotional

impact on my son . I went to his ped and his dev ped and had them write up

reports in regard to what my sons reaction to the visits was like. Then I went

and filed court papers and eventually got his visits reduced to 1 hour

supervised visits a week.  Now dad has decided it wa snot worth it. Has been

seen my son in years. It is the best thing for my son. He hates his father

always has never like dhim even as a baby. Sad I know but you got to do what is

best for the child.

I realize you can not do this due to Josh .

 

However maybe you can get his pyschiatrist and social worker to get involved in

these issues with your ex. Maybe they can write reports for documentation or sit

down with him and show him the affect. Maybe you should let him have a visit

with Josh and maybe he might get to experience some of these behaviors himself.

Maybe video tape them for him to see. Then maybe he might geta  clue to his role

in the behavioal issues. Its too bad that men can not see the effects on their

children. Specifically our sons dads.

 

I am not male bashing just talking about Sherry and my exes specifically. No one

else. No offense meant at all.

 

Take care

 

Jeanne

NH

From: sherry silvern <srsilvern (DOT) com>

Subject: Re: [childrensapraxiane t] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in

Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit

@groups. com

Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 5:36 PM

Thank you Jeanne - I just read your email after composing one of my own about

the quandry I'm in on this decision.  I couldn't help but sit here crying over

both your experiences and as a release for the fear I have with the idea of

giving such meds to my Josh.  After reading your email, it's even more clear to

me that the idea of meds such as these absolutely should not be done without a

whole lot of research and not just because we should " try it, you can always

just take him off " in mind.  Your experiences with the long term effects scares

me all the more.  I wish you luck in dealing with your health issues, and thank

you for sharing.

Sherry

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I saw this article when it first came out -but I didn't post it

because like Carol I found the study the article was pulled from.

I had mixed feelings about reading the reports of side effects because

I see what appears to have happened here in this group with a

nonprescription product, and know that reported side effects may be

downplayed by the company that stands to profit from sales.

However years ago I as well as most others were not aware of the most

recent reports on ADHD medications. Dr. Agin is one of the doctors

who spoke to me about medication for Dakota -but there is no short

list of medical doctors I took Dakota to at that time. Regardless I

didn't in my heart feel putting Dakota on medication was right -so I

didn't. Why since I didn't have any medically sound reason and was

being advised " strongly " against my " feelings "

Not knowing the long term side effects -something I always thought

about since my aunt has her PhD in nursing and I grew up learning

things about the medical field... my concern back then was that

somehow Dakota's creativity which is so powerful would be stifled by

the ADHD medication. I know this is probably a silly thought but I

thought somehow it would zombie him in a way and I am a strange one in

that I love his energy- his not in the box way of looking at the

world. I stood by if it didn't affect his grades or friendship I

didn't want to medicate. I too was told the adderall was something I

could " try " or " use just during the week " but I feared that once in

his body -it would change his brain in a way we'll never know. I

didn't want to change his brain one bit -unless I absolutely had to.

At that point I wasn't convinced Dakota needed to be on medication.

Below is an archive on some of the history but as an update -my son

Dakota is in all honors classes. He tends to be the absent minded

professor from time to time (like this morning I had to drive to his

HS to drop off his gym clothes that he forgot!) But Dakota is just

brilliant in his observations. He interests right now are in both

acting and architecture (I joke that he's starting on the As)

Reading the article that was posted and the side effects some are

having -it just saddens me. We all are aware that children are

misdiagnosed every single day. It used to be ADHD -now the diagnosis

du jour is autism of course. Someone I know casually told me that her

cousin on the West coast of Florida just found out that her child

needed a hearing aid and now he's starting to talk. Other than speech

he was a " normal preschool child " So now all is great.

Thing is that previous to this -many of the professionals highly

suspected autism- this has been going on for awhile. Knowing a bit

from me from casual conversation, this person told her cousin a few

times " I don't think it's autism. I think you need to look into other

reasons " Why did everyone suspect autism? ...the child wasn't

talking. Why wouldn't anyone have thought first of a " speech and

hearing " evaluation?! And why suspect autism if there were no other

signs other than not talking? (I can get anyone the exact town or any

other info if needed including name of doctors)

But back to ADHD which used to be over diagnosed. I do believe Dakota

does have ADHD -but I consider ADHD to be a positive thing if you can

learn how to use it. We are fortunate in that the fish oils alone

worked for Dakota -so for him they appear to have helped him learn how

to succeed with ADHD!

~~~~~~~~~~start of archives:

About the ADHD -my one son was diagnosed multiple times with it and

at one point various neurologists (and teachers who

highly " encouraged " ) wanted to put Dakota on adderall. We never put

him on any medications and other than a healthy diet (most of the

time) he's never been on a special diet and he's doing amazing!

Thing is for apraxia is a slightly different formula I found to work -

so you may have to play around with it.

Here's the archives on that.

Re: high dose fish oil for ADHD -- , can you speak to this?

Dakota's on 10 a day -but it took years to figure out the correct

formula and dosage for him. Back when he was first " suspected " of

ADHD at 3 -we didn't know about fish oils for ADHD and there

certainly wasn't anything out there like the durham trial to read

about. This was my journey for learning about it for apraxia

http://www.cherab.org/information/historyEFA.html but again back in

the early days I didn't know it would help Dakota too. Not sure why

we started Dakota -would have the check the archives -but we started

giving Dakota the EFA " reject " formulas that didn't work for Tanner

because we figured they are healthy no matter what.

It's funny because even if I did read the research -most research

only speaks of the Omega 3 in regards to psychological issues such as

the work done by Stoll MD published in The Omega 3 Connection –

but as you all may know –pure Omega 3 doesn't typically " work " for

apraxia type conditions. Well I found pure Omega 3 didn't work for

my ADHD son either. He too does much better on an Omega 3 formula

with a bit of Omega 6 –but while Tanner my apraxic son appears to

still require the formula (one capsule of ProEPA to 2 capsules of

ProEFA -2 doses once a day in the AM plus 4 vitamin E alpha gamma

mix) Dakota my ADHD son I have found through trial and error over the

years requires a higher EPA, and a higher dosage in general then

Tanner for the best results. (5 ProEFA and 5 ProEPA once a day in

the AM –he does best if in school during lunch the nurse gives him

one capsule of each –but he doesn't always follow that) That dosage

is what has worked for him for a few years now.

This is of course all anecdotal –but for the apraxia we know this has

worked for the overwhelming majority –for ADHD we don't know as

much -but on the other hand there is research that it works for ADHD

(unlike apraxia –more funding for ADHD)

Here's just some of the research (Dr. from what I know has

used Efalex and more recently I believe the EyeQ which are two of the

top three Omega 3/6 formulas used by this group in addition to the

ProEFA. For some reason however many don't mention the small amount

of GLA in the formula's used even if it's there –and should because

without it I find it doesn't " work " )

One of the larger studies done by Dr.

http://www.durhamtrial.org/

Here you can see they used Eye Q

" For many, we have evidence that these problems can be eliminated by

supplementing the diet with particular essential fatty acids.

, as the other children in our pre-school trial, used eye q

liquid, a formulation of the particular fatty acids crucial for brain

function. The product, which is available over the counter, was

supplied by a nutraceutical firm and delivers 558 mg of EPA, 174 mg

of DHA and 60 mg of GLA. We chose to use a liquid, because it

provided a high amount of EPA in fish oil, citrus flavoured that was

more palatable for youngsters, who can have difficulties swallowing

capsules. "

http://www.durhamtrial.org/homne%20-%20child%20of%20our%20time.htm

Here's just one of many articles about the most recent study on EFAs

that Dr. AJ who spoke at the First Apraxia Conference was

behind

http://www.cherab.org/news/scientific.html

Can fish oil supplements really boost your brain power? Get the

lowdown:

http://www.gm.tv/index.cfm?articleid=14487

And specific to ADHD:

AJ.

Department of Physiology, Human Anatomy and Genetics, University of

Oxford, UK. alex.richardson@...

Omega-3 fatty acids are dietary essentials, and are critical to brain

development and function. Increasing evidence suggests that a

relative lack of omega-3 may contribute to many psychiatric and

neurodevelopmental disorders. This review focuses on the possible

role of omega-3 in attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)

and related childhood developmental disorders, evaluating the

existing evidence from both research and clinical perspectives.

Theory and experimental evidence support a role for omega-3 in ADHD,

dyslexia, developmental coordination disorder (DCD) and autism.

Results from controlled treatment trials are mixed, but the few

studies in this area have involved different populations and

treatment formulations. Dietary supplementation with fish oils

(providing EPA and DHA) appears to alleviate ADHD-related symptoms in

at least some children, and one study of DCD children also found

benefits for academic achievement. Larger trials are now needed to

confirm these findings, and to establish the specificity and

durability of any treatment effects as well as optimal formulations

and dosages. Omega-3 is not supported by current evidence as a

primary treatment for ADHD or related conditions, but further

research in this area is clearly warranted. Given their relative

safety and general health benefits, omega-3 fatty acids offer a

promising complementary approach to standard treatments.

PMID: 16777670 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?

Db=pubmed & Cmd=ShowDetailView & TermToSear\

ch=16777670 & ordinalpos=1 & itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_Res

ultsPanel.\

Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus

If we raise the EPA as high for my apraxic son (1/1 instead of 2/1)

he regresses slightly -and we know we can't lower Dakota's dosage or

EPA or he's so unfocused (!) which is why for years now we stick to

what is working for both.

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Wed Oct 30, 2002 3:14 pm

Subject: Re: Global apraxia and ADD link?

Hi Kim!

Dr. Stordy I believe was the first to state this for our (dyspraxic)

children. However -Dr. and Dr. Portwook state

the " research has already shown a clear link between diet and some

of the behavioral and learning problems associated with dyslexia,

dyspraxia and ADHD. Certain key fatty acids found in fish oil and

evening primrose are crucial in shaping brain development and

function, but they have been disappearing from many modern diets.

These fatty acids matter to everyone, but they seem particularly

crucial for individuals predisposed to these kinds of specific

learning difficulties. "

http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/po/020322.shtml

The success is because they used an O3/O6 formula with higher EPA.

I know this because of my ADHD son Dakota's amazing results with

EFAs without drugs.

It (again) also doesn't matter which brand name you use -or even

if you use borage or primrose oil for the small amount of GLA (Omega

6) It does matter that you use fish oil together with a small

amount of primrose or borage oil -I've tried both and happen to like

the borage more -that's personal preference.

You see when I first learned about EFAs -or fish oils in 1999, I

heard about Efalex -probably due to Dr. Stordy's work on dyspraxic

children leaking out to a handful of parents of apraxic children.

http://www.drstordy.com

I started Tanner on Efalex -and that is when he had amazing changes

in just weeks -however -when that bottle ran out -I ran out to the

store and bought " fish oil " ...after all -I thought they all stink

and they were all the same. I tried various fish oils -and the only

one that " worked " and that Tanner didn't regress on was Efalex - 3

and a half years ago -ProEFA or EyeQ didn't exist.

In spite of ADHD suspected -I never gave Dakota any fish oil until

September 2000 when Dr. Stordy's book came out and I read The LCP

Solution when I learned it could help ADHD too. We just didn't

know. I again messed up and gave Dakota all the reject fish oils

that didn't work for Tanner -which ended up being all the pure Omega

3 fish oil capsules - just DHA and EPA -because again -that's

(unfortunately) all reported -the importance of either the DHA or

EPA (Omega 3) Dakota had little change on the Omega 3 alone either -

same as apraxic children.

Over time I started Dakota on the Efalex too -and in school they

reported positive results of that -but he was still considered

either ADD or APD by various teachers and pediatric neurologists and

Dr. Agin too. After Tanner had the surges on ProEFA on a much

smaller -one capsule a day (and cheaper) dosage of ProEFA -I

switched both my boys to ProEFA. The Efalex at 4-6 capsules a day

was getting to be over $17 a week! Again -Dakota had improvements -

but as I reported here to the group -and to the neurologists -it

didn't help as dramatically as they helped Tanner and others like

him. I was highly encouraged by more than one neurologist to begin

Dakota on Aderol " He doesn't have enough dopamine and it's just

going to keep getting harder for him " My husband and I were and

are resistant to medicating Dakota. Again -my brother was ADHD -and

yes he was a handful -however he was the youngest captain ever -and

was then made the youngest maritime law partner in one of the

world's largest Maritime Law Firms. I'm from the school of thought

that ADHD adults can achieve more than the average if they just

learn how to channel the energy.

When CHERAB hosted The First Apraxia Conference -I had the pleasure

to speak with Dr. -and she told me about EPA at that

time. I then read about the research Dr. did with higher

EPA and ADHD -and was thrilled. Anything to not do meds for

Dakota. Soon after I ordered the ProEPA to " up " the EPA in the

ProEFA for Dakota. (the rest of the story is here

http://www.speechville.com/alternative-therapy/efa-faqs.html

(and more

http://www.cherab.org/information/indexinformation.html#diet )

(I have Dakota and Tanner on a 2 to one ratio. One ProEFA to 1/2 of

ProEPA, or 2 ProEFA to 1 ProEPA) It's been well over a year now -

and it was a year before I told anyone here at the list. I waited

to see if what worked for my two -was also working better for others

that I spoke to. Yes it did. Unfortunately -no US company is making

the right formula we need.

How good is the higher EPA added to the ProEFA? I'll put it this

way -Dr. Sinha -Dakota's last neurologist from Bridgewater, NJ asked

me for the exact formula she noticed such a difference -and if she

can have others call me. She said " There is no point even seeing me

again " She then added " Dakota will probably make an excellent

doctor " Each intelligence test he has received (he was classified

at the end of last year by the school as ADHD so that has been about

four times now counting the private neurologist testing too) has

shown a marked huge increase in his testing from above average -to

superior. Dakota in some cases almost tests perfect now in areas!

His grades again in third grade were straight A's with one B -and

most impressive -an A in " conduct " too! The teacher doesn't notice

any ADHD characteristics -and most that I've met here when I tell

them that Dakota was classified in NJ as ADHD state how " oh they

just like to diagnose these kids " Try to explain that to all his

past teachers & MD's! Dakota was hyper -and still can be at times -

however -he now knows how to focus and learn.

If you have a child with ADHD -the best thing I can tell you is that

once I gave Dakota the higher EPA with the Omega 3/6 -for the first

time in his life since he's been walking -he actually stayed with my

cart at the supermarket!!! (you have no idea!)

What's amazing is that the higher EPA has also worked wonders for

Tanner. Again -wait till you guys hear the talking page update.

Tanner's report card doesn't have grades -but he's on target for

all -reading, writing -and also -speech too!

You can read about Dr Stordy at the link above. Here is some

information on the other doctors who did the study on EFAs to treat

ADHD/dyslexia

Dr

Dr is a Senior Research Fellow in Neuroscience at

the Imperial College School of Medicine at Hammersmith Hospital in

London, Co-Director of the Neuropsychiatry Research Group at the MRI

Unit there, and a Research Affiliate at the University Laboratory of

Physiology, Oxford. Her current research centres on the role of

fatty acids in neurodevelopmental and psychiatric disorders. Recent

work includes treatment studies that show beneficial effects of

fatty acid supplements in the management of dyslexia, dyspraxia and

ADHD and reveal insights into the likely mechanisms underlying this

kind of treatment.

Dr Madeleine Portwood

Dr Madeleine Portwood is a Senior Educational Psychologist in County

Durham. Her research over the last eleven years has involved more

than 400 children / young adults and their families. Since

publication in 1996 her book " Developmental Dyspraxia – a practical

manual for parents and professionals " has sold more than 10,000

copies, not only in the UK, but in many other countries including

the USA, South Africa, Australia, Iceland, Greece, China and

Singapore. Professionals have purchased more than half, mainly

teachers who have designed and implemented school based programmes

to develop the skills of their pupils.

Madeleine's work has been the subject of television documentaries,

radio and newspaper features.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~end of archives

=====

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Hi Jeanne,

Ive been to a different doctors but it doesnt seem like anyone can really get

into a full picture of my son. Ive written on message boards,researched , had

him tested for special ed and tried different natural approaches . I cant afford

to pay for the doctors that I feel woul

dig deep into his issues and figure out the best way to help. I was

contemplating going to

a doctor who writes many books on being in the mix....adhd aspergers sensory

.....and he

charges 800.00 . lol I think I just wrote about my son because day to day. he is

a challenge and I am at the point where I dont even want to send him to school

because he has such a hard time. Unfortunately , I cant homeschool him

because my youngest has apraxia and I have to work with him too . I see a lot of

the same behaviors in my young guy that I see my oldest. Interestingly enough.

Well, thanks so much for writing.

 

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I hear you about the issues regarding school. My son hates school it is a fight

to get him to go every morning. He has told that at the age of 10 he wants to

quit. I feel horrible to have to send him. He has such a hard time in his

academics . i hate to send him myself. I too wish i could homeschool him . I

also can not do it. I for another reason. I admit I would not have the patience

to work with him. I feel so bad that i am afraid I would let him get away with

not doing the work. I feel so bad for him. My heart wrenches at the thought of

him at school all day. Unfortunately I live in a school district that does not

and will not pay for an out of district placement for they feel they can educate

him. I hear about the money thing also. All the good specailist are so

expensive. SIGH.........

 

I was talking with my mom yesterdaya bout how my son feels about school. I

actually told my mom that if he could I would go and sign the papers for him to

quit school. In NH the age has been raised to 18. Then i would go and enroll him

in an alternative school called a charter school they have where I live for

children who have dropped out for emotional issues or been placed by an agency

in one. Their program is individually adapted to the childs style of learning.

 

Good Luck. So our daily battles continue.

 

Jeanne

NH

From: ali mccahey <sweetysource@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: ADHD Drugs Cause Hallucinations in

Children; Psychiatry Pushes Hallucinogenic Drugs for Profit

Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 10:51 AM

Hi Jeanne,

Ive been to a different doctors but it doesnt seem like anyone can really get

into a full picture of my son. Ive written on message boards,researched  , had

him tested for special ed and tried different natural approaches . I cant afford

to pay for the doctors that I feel woul

dig deep into his issues and figure out the best way to help. I was

contemplating going to

a doctor who writes many books on being in the mix....adhd aspergers sensory

.....and he

charges 800.00 . lol I think I just wrote about my son because day to day. he is

a challenge and I am at the point where I dont even want to send him to school

because he has such a hard time. Unfortunately , I cant homeschool him

because my youngest has apraxia and I have to work with him too . I see a lot of

the same behaviors in my young guy that I see my oldest. Interestingly enough.

Well, thanks so much for writing.

 

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