Re: Apraxia question from India

[Guest guest]

I wasn't giving anybody problems, I was just putting in my own two cents.

Sorry-- guess I shouldn't have???

I didn't realize my post was any different than anyone elses

btw-- I was sort of taking off on the whole 3,000 x thing and saying that it

really doesn't matter how many times the child hears it because it could be

35 x or 5000 times, and sometimes the child will get it, and sometimes they

won't.

Didn't you read that part of my post where I said that the key is REPEAT

REPEAT REPEAT??

and that would be the key rather than sitting there trying to figure out the

perfect number-- know what I mean?

Bek

In a message dated 4/2/2009 6:42:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

mosense@... writes:

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or

less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

[Guest guest]

Speaking about the /S/ sound. You're right in that " typically " speaking,

the /S/ sound is not one that Apraxic kids will say.

But don't give up on her just yet with this sound-- she might just one day

surprise you!!!

Asa just up and one day started using /S/ out of the blue!! Even the SLPs

were all shocked beyond belief. He's been in speech therapy for almost 2 yrs

now, and the /S/ was something I was warned upfront to not expect for a verrrrry

loooong time. And yet-- he says it now all the time-- perfectly so!

I don't quite get it-- but I'm not questioning it at ALL. LOL

But Asa's a definite Severe Apraxic and was dx by 3 different SLPs , so none

of us thought he'd be able to do it for the longest time until it just

happened. One of the gals even said that it wasn't the sound they were working

on

that day and he just said it at the end of the word, and she decided to just

go with it.

I'm very thankful tho-- because it's a toughie to get, and I'm thankful for

ONE less battle for this little fighter of mine.

bek

In a message dated 4/2/2009 6:42:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

mosense@... writes:

I can also attest to the sounds my daughter will not try yet-- and I know

she has heard them 7000 times if you want a specific number. She will not try

any sound that starts with " S " . nope, nada,not gunna happen. the slp has said

that is one of THE last sounds to come with APraxia children.

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or

less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

[Guest guest]

::::Shrugging shoulders::::: I have no clue how it was said since I wasn't

THERE hearing the lecture!

I just assumed by the post that was made, that someone was actually saying

that 3,000 was the " magic " number--

guess I read totally wrong

ek

In a message dated 4/2/2009 6:43:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

mosense@... writes:

do hope we could all fiqure that out on our own-- dont you think that a

professional who threw out this random 3000 number meant REPETITION AND

repeating are the key??? I dont count the number of times my daughter hears a

word--and say --we're not up to 3000 yet-- no sense expecting her to repeat it

to me

yet! some words it is 25 times, some words its 4000

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or

less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

[Guest guest]

ROFLOL I quite literally JUST posted almost the same thing about my Asa.!

funny!

bek

In a message dated 4/2/2009 8:35:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

Csvillars@... writes:

That's interesting because " s " is one of the sounds my daughter can say

which surprised all of her therapists but then she always has to be different.

lol

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or

less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

[Guest guest]

yes, I understand the progression of sounds that babies make. It seems you are

nit-picking a statement about 3000 times and wondering why a child with true

apraxia cannot repeat a word he has obviously heard 3000 times! that was a

general number that came from an Apraxia professional at a conference three

years ago----not from me! All I know is once they started doing Kaufman in

school- SHE STARTED TALKING!! I did not ask the SLP how many times did you tell

her the words that she is now using and trying to say -- good frigging Lord!

I think the general point of throwing out a general and non-specific number like

3000 is that they have to hear it a LOT before the NEURAL Pathways that some of

you are so concerned about are being formed by hearing a word 3000 times or up

to 7000 times--whatever it takes. but to tell new parents that --sorry- Apraxia

children can never, ever repeat a word that they've heard not on command is

wrong and misinformation!!! new parents should not be dissuading so many new

comers to this group that its NEVER going to happen!!

I can also attest to the sounds my daughter will not try yet-- and I know she

has heard them 7000 times if you want a specific number. She will not try any

sound that starts with " S " . nope, nada,not gunna happen. the slp has said that

is one of THE last sounds to come with APraxia children.

So bek--- cant you find it in your heart to give us a little leeway here?

>

> But one of the reasons WHY she would say these words first, is because they

> typically come first developmentally speaking.

> It's the natural progression with sounds and words-- and the ma ma, da da,

> wa wa, ba ba, etc-- those all will " come first " in the speaking hierarchy, so

> it makes perfect sense that she would say these things first.

> I don't see it as being due to the fact that she would have heard it 3000x

> and that's why she said it.

> Know what I mean?

>

> A perfect example would be the hundreds of Apraxic kids who are OLDER than

> your daughter and who may have heard those words 7,000x in 5 yrs, but haven't

> quite been able to say them until something connects for them both

> neurologically and physically (and for some, I'd even add in emotionally)

>

>

> Becky

>

>

> In a message dated 4/2/2009 7:07:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> mosense@... writes:

>

> It makes perfect sense to me---all the words that my daughter heard most in

> her early years are the ones she said first- like typical babies- only four

> years late-- mama, dada...

>

> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or

> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I do hope we could all fiqure that out on our own-- dont you think that a

professional who threw out this random 3000 number meant REPETITION AND

repeating are the key??? I dont count the number of times my daughter hears a

word--and say --we're not up to 3000 yet-- no sense expecting her to repeat it

to me yet! some words it is 25 times, some words its 4000-- if you can give me

that much leeway.

> the key that maybe the person was trying to point out is that REPETITON is the

> key-- BIG TIME!!

> REPEAT REPEAT REPEAT etc.

>

> But to say that a child needs to hear it 3000 before they can repeat doesn't

> sound correct to me at all.

>

> Becky

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I guess I didn't know it was a lifelong condition.

In a message dated 4/2/2009 4:28:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

agirlnamedsuess@... writes:

-The apraxia still exists even when the child with apraxia learns to talk.

Apraxia is a lifelong condition.

-- In _ childrensaprachi_

(mailto: ) , jennyjudy@.., je

>

> What if all the signs of apraxia are there, and the child has been in

speech

> for three years, and can now say words on command, does that mean they

never

> had apraxia or they heard the word 3000 times?? Jen

>

>

> In a message dated 4/2/2009 7:07:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> mosense@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> A friend of mine went to the National Apraxia Conference a couple years

> ago....she learned a lot there. what she learned is Apraxia children need

to hear

> a word 3000 times before they can repeat it! - does that sound correct

> to you? It makes perfect sense to me---all the words that my daughter

heard

> most in her early years are the ones she said first- like typical babies-

only

> four years late-- mama, dada...so be careful what you tell other parents.

Now

> she can repeat words on command that she has heard before...as long as they

> are common, every day words. and she will try new words- they dont sound

> right to anyone-but she will try. You are still a new mom to all this--it

takes

> time to get there but they do!!!!!!!!!!

>

**************New Low Prices on Dell Laptops – Starting at $399

(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433304x1201394525/aol?redir=http:%2\

F%2Fad.doubl

eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540718%3B35046385%3Be)

[Guest guest]

That's interesting because " s " is one of the sounds my daughter can say which

surprised all of her therapists but then she always has to be different. lol

That just shows how different each of our children are and how we can listen to

the information from others but still

need to keep an open mind and remember that our children might not do the same

as others and vice versa.

Carol

Trishasmom

She isn't typical, She's Trisha!

From: Maureen

Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 5:53 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Apraxia question from India

the slp has said that is one of THE last sounds to come with APraxia children.

[Guest guest]

it depends on the apraxic child. When you say unable and bold it you are

making a very strong statement. New parents may assume you know more than they

do. You are a new parent as well. Please let me know if I'm misunderstanding

you but you appear to believe that there is a set pattern to apraxia. Those of

us with apraxic children over the years have learned that the one consistant

with apraxia is inconsistency.

I'm curious. Your 5 year old -was he just recently diagnosed as apraxic? I

know you have written he has severe apraxia and are exploring augmentative

devices and sign. How verbal is he?

There are many of us in this group who via appropriate early intervention have

apraxic children who are verbal and doing wonderful in all aspects. It is

possible that there are things for you to learn in this group that can help you

to help your son.

Most important appropriate and individual therapy is key.

One thing those of us who have our children on the " right " formula of fish oils

have learned is that apraxic children can repeat a word on command. Even a new

word or sentence. I know this from when my son Tanner was learning to read and

had to read words that he had never said before. Some of these words-crazy

names of characters (when he was younger) and some of them were more complex

terms as he got older.

So Maureen as far as the National apraxia conference -no I don't agree that a

child with apraxia 'has' to hear a word 3000 times prior to being able to say

it. In fact I'll even go further and say even 'if' an apraxic child hears a

word 3000 times and it's a word he can't say -he still can't. Ask " Doo Doo "

(what Tanner used to call my sister even though was always around our

kids/house and we were always talking to and about Aunt )

My trick of treat story with Tanner as you'll find in the archives happened when

he was 3 years old. Each house I said really slow

" trick " - " ti "

" or " - 'ah "

" treat " - " tee "

House after house we did that...and each person that opened the door waited

patiently for Tanner to try to repeat me....until we got to the house with the

precocious 5 year old! Anyway point being repetition does work...but doesn't

make a child learn to say a word they don't know how to say. Repetition is to

get a word into a child's motor memory 'once' they say it correctly. The trick

is to try to get them to repeat it at least 3 times -and I found the best way to

do that was in a fun way. I could go into an huge post just on that alone.

While you are learning please do continue to share- but please try to be open to

the possibility that your opinions are just that. Again nobody knows much about

apraxia yet. It's still one of the most misunderstood and in my opinion unknown

and frustrating conditions.

It does appear however that many of us here in this group have figured out how

to help our verbal disabled or delayed children overcome. That's what we try to

share here.

=====

[Guest guest]

I didn't know it was lifelong either.

________________________________

From: " jennyjudy@... " <jennyjudy@...>

Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2009 10:55:09 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Apraxia question from India

I guess I didn't know it was a lifelong condition.

In a message dated 4/2/2009 4:28:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

agirlnamedsuess@ hotmail.com writes:

-The apraxia still exists even when the child with apraxia learns to talk.

Apraxia is a lifelong condition.

-- In _childrensapraxiane tchildrensaprach i_

(mailto: @groups. com) , jennyjudy@.. , je

>

> What if all the signs of apraxia are there, and the child has been in

speech

> for three years, and can now say words on command, does that mean they

never

> had apraxia or they heard the word 3000 times?? Jen

>

>

> In a message dated 4/2/2009 7:07:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> mosense@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> A friend of mine went to the National Apraxia Conference a couple years

> ago....she learned a lot there. what she learned is Apraxia children need

to hear

> a word 3000 times before they can repeat it! - does that sound correct

> to you? It makes perfect sense to me---all the words that my daughter

heard

> most in her early years are the ones she said first- like typical babies-

only

> four years late-- mama, dada...so be careful what you tell other parents.

Now

> she can repeat words on command that she has heard before...as long as they

> are common, every day words. and she will try new words- they dont sound

> right to anyone-but she will try. You are still a new mom to all this--it

takes

> time to get there but they do!!!!!!!!!!

>

************ **New Low Prices on Dell Laptops – Starting at $399

(http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100126575x122043 3304x1201394525/ aol?redir=

http:%2F% 2Fad.doubl

eclick.net%2Fclk% 3B213540718% 3B35046385% 3Be)

[Guest guest]

I can agree with this.  Lindsey was going on 9 before she learned the S and F

sound, Those 2 were the hardest for her. Now its the CH and R sound and she's

going on 13.

Jennie

Re: [ ] Re: Apraxia question from India

Speaking about the /S/ sound. You're right in that " typically " speaking,

the /S/ sound is not one that Apraxic kids will say.

But don't give up on her just yet with this sound-- she might just one day

surprise you!!!

Asa just up and one day started using /S/ out of the blue!! Even the SLPs

were all shocked beyond belief. He's been in speech therapy for almost 2 yrs

now, and the /S/ was something I was warned upfront to not expect for a verrrrry

loooong time. And yet-- he says it now all the time-- perfectly so!

I don't quite get it-- but I'm not questioning it at ALL. LOL

But Asa's a definite Severe Apraxic and was dx by 3 different SLPs , so none

of us thought he'd be able to do it for the longest time until it just

happened. One of the gals even said that it wasn't the sound they were working

on

that day and he just said it at the end of the word, and she decided to just

go with it.

I'm very thankful tho-- because it's a toughie to get, and I'm thankful for

ONE less battle for this little fighter of mine.

bek

In a message dated 4/2/2009 6:42:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

mosense @ writes:

I can also attest to the sounds my daughter will not try yet-- and I know

she has heard them 7000 times if you want a specific number. She will not try

any sound that starts with " S " . nope, nada ,not gunna happen. the slp has said

that is one of THE last sounds to come with APraxia children.

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or

less. ( http ://food. aol .com/frugal-feasts? ncid =emlcntusfood00000001 )

[Guest guest]

I think the original poster of the 3,000 word thing was referring to hearing

that it was done as a study and generally speaking if someone hears something

3,000 times, then it sticks (like a commercial).

Otherwise, we would all just repeat ords 3,000 times each and BINGO our kids

could magically talk.

As mentioned before, the brain is mysterious, and what usually sticks involves

both " repetition and experience " . Obviously, the better experiences are better,

as we do not want to have bad experiences.

It seems like all therapies that are successful are both memorable and

repetitious.

[Guest guest]

The information I have stated is common knowledge about apraxia. Some of which

comes from Hedge's Pocket Guide To Assessment in Speech Language Pathology (that

does tend to focus towards adults, though). Some other reliable sources of

information regarding what I said about " unable to repeat a word on command " are

as follows:

http://ajslp.asha.org/cgi/content/abstract/16/3/198 (need to read article)

http://www.asha.org/public/speech/disorders/ChildhoodApraxia.htm

http://www.maxshouse.com.au/what.htm

http://books.google.com/books?id=12XW-oGWr4IC & pg=PA485 & lpg=PA485 & dq=Apraxia+%2B+\

repeat+word+on+command & source=bl & ots=jfDZFpt973 & sig=D9JbjL0hVLGL2nBLW1lwnjKWXw4 & \

hl=en & ei=9zTWSZCpHIrItgf0xKzgDw & sa=X & oi=book_result & ct=result & resnum=1#PPA486,M1

All of these sources (and more) indicate that with verbal apraxia, the patient

has difficulty performing the oral-motor movements to repeat a word on command.

The reason is that the area of the brain that unconsciously tells the person's

mouth to move in a certain way to imitate the sound is broken.

Maybe, you and I are referencing two different conditions?

About the 3,000 word thing, " I " was not the one who brought that up and since

your post was addressed to " me " , then I am assuming you thought I posted it? No,

I did not . But the poster was more than likely referring to a study that had

been mentioned to her during a conference. To me, it sounds reasonable to have

done a study about this (snce commercials on TV affect our thinking in mch the

same way); however, what about the child who hears a profane word once and then

repeats it? (apraxic or not, it can be done) So, what causes this? The answer is

the " impression " it left in the brain. Here we are back at the NDT again.

Experience (good, bad, shocking, etc...) and repetition.

On the sign thing, we are not " exploring " it, we use it and have for 5 years. I

know what works for us and I know what does not. Unfortunately, second languages

are harder for some than others. In my family, second languages are easy. Sign

lauage works, as do other " foreign lanaguages " for a variety of reasons, withte

main one being that a " different part of the brain is used rather thanthe

damaged part " . Second languages ar learned in a different area than primary

language. (Perhaps why my apraxic son enjoys hearing the captions to his movies

dubbed in different langauges repeatedly?-Again " repetition and experiencing

something different " is helpful.- We used to stop him until I learned that was a

diferent area of the brain being activated. Now, I think it is helpful at very

least.)

The AAC device I believe is intended to speak for children solely. However, when

we got ours, that was not our intent. I intend on my son learning language,be it

sign, verbal, or what have you. Our intended purpose was to use the device to

" promote " language, especially verbal, but also nonverbal. My complaint with the

DynaVox in particular is that it does not address these issues. It requires a

multitude of additionally purchased items to have it function in that way. Then

with the extra items, it is cumbersome adno longer " portable " and " convenient " .

I think we chose a wrong device, (maybe, maybe not) but I know I certainly would

make some drastic changes in the next model, if " I " were the technician

designing it, in order to make it more marketable to a wider variety of people.

(That would just be good marketing.) Then I would redesign the rep.'s areas or

fire a few rep.'s and give the jobs to people who really need them and would be

anxious to perform their duties. Just my honest opinion...since it was

addressed, thought I would put my two cents in about it.

I am not out to get into " tifts " with anyone about diagnosing apraxia, nor am I

into " diagnosing " anyone's child. As I stated before, I am not a ST and I am not

a doctor, but I do know what apraxia is and is not. Can it be overcome? YES. Is

it lifelong? YES. Can a child eventually talk verbally in an intelligible

manner? YES (And for encouragement, I would love to see some You-tubes of kids

that grew up and learned to speak...I know they are out there....ones that have

an apraxic condition in the brain. That would probably be encouragement for all

of us parents.)

As far as being " new " , my child is only 5 years old, and so, I guess that is

relatively new. I am relatively new to this group, if you are referencing that.

Not sure which you mean?

I am assuming this forum is for all to ask questions, get feedback and share. At

least that is what I hope to gain from it. I like variety.

One reason I asked earlier is anyone was offended is because I get the general

impression that someone or someones feel threatened when I present information

that I " know " to be true from reliable sources that I have gathered information

or because they wrote a book on it and that prevails them as " the " expert. There

are many emerging experts in the field and no one person knows it all as there

is still much to be learned. I do know that Apraxia is caused from " damage to

the brain " and it can be pinpointed to certain areas or a certain area of

damage, based on MRI studies. Because the brain suffered damage, it is lifelong.

But just because the brain was damaged does not mean it cannot be repaired. Look

at stroke patients who cannot walk or talk and then do walk and talk

miraculously (?). The problem with apraxia in infancy is that there is no

established verbal language already have been spoken for years, as with a stroke

patient, which makes the process difficult.

I read a lot of MRI studies that discuss apraxia; they interest me. I read

medical books written by doctors and groups of doctors because they tend to know

more about the brain than I do. That does not mean I do not read ones that are

not written by doctors, as I do sometimes.

I am not out to take anyone's glory away from writing a book (I write my own and

don't need any more glory on that end...I have not written one on apraxia

" yet " ), moderating a group, or from their own opinion. I often will give my own

opinion and state so and then many times I give information that I have learned

from reading about something. (I read a lot...does the body good.)

I do think a lot gets misconstrued via e-mail's and postings because emotions

are not present and we all try to be brief (usually..lol). That is the whole

" idea " of a forum where many people post.

For myself, I get a lot out of peoples postings (here and on my other groups)and

some I read and then check out the studies regarding the posts. It is just what

I do. I am constantly gathering information about things I already know and also

about things I do not know about yet. KNOWLEDGE IS GOOD. :0)Cheers.:0)

With other forms of apraxia, that involve other than verbal, the patient cannot

do " tasks " on command (i.e. when asked to brush his teeth, he may pick up a

comb). I am referring to verbalness because I am assuming we are talking about

speech here in regards to apraxia.

>

> it depends on the apraxic child. When you say unable and bold it you

are making a very strong statement. New parents may assume you know more than

they do. You are a new parent as well. Please let me know if I'm

misunderstanding you but you appear to believe that there is a set pattern to

apraxia. Those of us with apraxic children over the years have learned that the

one consistant with apraxia is inconsistency.

>

> I'm curious. Your 5 year old -was he just recently diagnosed as apraxic? I

know you have written he has severe apraxia and are exploring augmentative

devices and sign. How verbal is he?

>

> There are many of us in this group who via appropriate early intervention have

apraxic children who are verbal and doing wonderful in all aspects. It is

possible that there are things for you to learn in this group that can help you

to help your son.

>

> Most important appropriate and individual therapy is key.

>

> One thing those of us who have our children on the " right " formula of fish

oils have learned is that apraxic children can repeat a word on command. Even a

new word or sentence. I know this from when my son Tanner was learning to read

and had to read words that he had never said before. Some of these words-crazy

names of characters (when he was younger) and some of them were more complex

terms as he got older.

>

> So Maureen as far as the National apraxia conference -no I don't agree that a

child with apraxia 'has' to hear a word 3000 times prior to being able to say

it. In fact I'll even go further and say even 'if' an apraxic child hears a

word 3000 times and it's a word he can't say -he still can't. Ask " Doo Doo "

(what Tanner used to call my sister even though was always around our

kids/house and we were always talking to and about Aunt )

>

> My trick of treat story with Tanner as you'll find in the archives happened

when he was 3 years old. Each house I said really slow

> " trick " - " ti "

> " or " - 'ah "

> " treat " - " tee "

>

> House after house we did that...and each person that opened the door waited

patiently for Tanner to try to repeat me....until we got to the house with the

precocious 5 year old! Anyway point being repetition does work...but doesn't

make a child learn to say a word they don't know how to say. Repetition is to

get a word into a child's motor memory 'once' they say it correctly. The trick

is to try to get them to repeat it at least 3 times -and I found the best way to

do that was in a fun way. I could go into an huge post just on that alone.

>

> While you are learning please do continue to share- but please try to be open

to the possibility that your opinions are just that. Again nobody knows much

about apraxia yet. It's still one of the most misunderstood and in my opinion

unknown and frustrating conditions.

>

> It does appear however that many of us here in this group have figured out how

to help our verbal disabled or delayed children overcome. That's what we try to

share here.

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

+

I guess perhaps I was misunderstood. I believe I stated that my son was helped

in many areas using NDT, motor planning being part of that, but it has not

helped him directly to talk. I have been doing this therapy for 1 1/2 years with

my son. So why do I make this assumption? He is starting to speak, slowly, but

it is coming and we have only added SLP within this last month and everyday he

seems to improve somewhat. Will it be less of a struggle for him to speak now

that he is with a SLP because he has had and continues to have NDT? Perhaps, I

hope, time will tell. I know others that have used NDT with DS kids and such

and they too have had to add a SLP to their therapy. Looking back, my son would

have been better off with a SLP in addition to the NDT from the very beginning.

If one is to error, my opinion is it would be better to error on the side of

having a SLP initially along with the NDT. I do believe that NDT helps to build

new neuropathways so I will not give it up, but there is something unique to the

method a SLP uses with apraxic kiddos. There is no doubt in my mind.

bek, just curious, do you have experience using NDT with an apraxic child

personally ?

Jane

www.KidsHealthNaturally.com

www.HealthyChatter.com

>

> Btu how do you know that it HASN'T helped with his talking?

>

> I believe that *ALL* Neuro Dev Therapies-- because they work with the

> brain, DO help in all aspects. Whether we SEE those aspects, or whether we SEE

> evidence, doesn't mean that it hasn't helped.

> NDT help tremendously with neuro issues, so I believe that it's helping even

> if we don't see it at the time.

>

> For instance-- NDT help improve motor planning. That's a given-- that's

> obviously one of the biggest " draws " to do NDT. So if it's helping the

overall

> motor planning,that *IS* helping with the Apraxia, since Apraxia *IS* a motor

> planning disorder. So you see, even if people will believe that it's not

> helping a child " talk " , I tend to disagree 100% on that thought. A person

may

> not HEAR the difference with the child and in how the child speaks, but is

that

> more of an ARTICULATION issue or Apraxic issue? What I think people forget

> about Apraxic kids, is that they *ALSO* have articulation and phonemic

> issues, so there are more things behind the scenes overall with these kids.

> If the NDT is helping the motor planning (which it always does), then

> without a doubt, you're helping the Apraxia. It may just take more

DILIGENCE,

> however, to HEAR a difference with most Apraxic kids.

>

> that's just my two cents worth--0

>

> bek

>

>

> In a message dated 4/1/2009 5:00:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> jmj4life83@... writes:

>

> One would think that neurodevelopmental therapy would have helped my son to

> talk, but after doing this therapy for a year it has not. I definitely

> believe it helped him in many other areas. My son is doing speech therapy now

with

> someone who is trained in apraxia. She actually knows the Kaufmann method

> well. (I live in MI where the Kaufmann institute is located.) My son is

already

> making progress in his speech. Literally, my son was not talking.

> There seems to be a specific targeted therapy for these apraxic kiddos. I

> wish I had known this 3 years ago.

> Hope this helps.

>

>

> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or

> less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Becky you probably didn't read every message in this thread. Jane has been

repeatedly trying to say the same thing over and over to express her views on

this therapy she uses... and it appears didn't understand so Jane kept

trying to explain -and still is.

We probably should just drop it - it's reported in the media time and time again

to be a controversial therapy for many reasons and clearly it is since it's been

nothing but causing debates in this group -including with Jane who uses the

therapy! This is in my opinion not worth debating about because it's not a

therapy that most use to get their child up to speed- so no reason to get into

any further debates about it.

Also, Jane is one of the only people in the history of this group to have used

this therapy - so shouldn't be beaten down trying to express her views of a

therapy she uses for her own child -it's her opinion.

I just want to take this moment to thank Jane for sharing her views so we have

a view from a reality vs. theory.

I can say for a fact most of us never use this therapy -and in the history of

this group the success rate is mainstream in school and in life.

=====

[Guest guest]

I unfortunately know what the documentation for adults is as that was all

that was available to me when my son was diagnosed with apraxia in 1999 so lost

way to many hours of sleep trying to figure out what my son had based on

information which didn't pertain to all I viewed in him. Thankfully we no

longer have to resort to history books because we do have more information

-including what was shared in The Late Talker which was published 6 years ago at

this point!

There has been a paradym shift in what apraxia -or for that matter what autism

is in the past decade. For example today most apraxic children present with

multifaceted symptoms. Fifty years ago- in the adult population for apraxia

they don't typically present with the sensory issues, motor deficits in the body

and/or hypotonia.

Fifty years ago for what's being diagnosed as autism today?!

Also you took my words out of context -I was disagreeing with your quote that " a

truly apraxic child is UNABLE to repeat a word " because while a sign of apraxia

is difficulty repeating on command...that doesn't mean that a child who

occasionally can or who on the right formula of fish oils all of a sudden is

able to repeat on command is no longer apraxic.

You didn't answer my questions about your child. Was he just recently

diagnosed as severe apraxic and what was the diagnosis prior to apraxia -what

therapy? You posted he is homebound for therapy- what type of therapy has he

received for the past few years to address his speech issues? I always say to

not wait more than 3 months and if no improvement reevaluate therapy, therapist

and/or diagnosis.

=====

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I forgot the entire post and did not realize I left the answers to your

questions out.

Here is the story on my son.

At birth, he was misdiagnosed with Trisomy 21 Down Syndrome and so, when he was

not speaking correctly, he received the label " developmental delay " ecause of

the incorrect trisomy diagnosis.We noticed his cognitive skills were ok or

better than ok and with my nursing experience, I fought to get a more

quantitative test done on the chromosomes. Three and a half years later, we got

the news that it was Mosaicism (50%) and then he follow-up wth all of my

kids/family revealed an " inherited " factor. (Ours is either hidden or in

tissues.) Anyways, during ths time, we moved around a lot and with doctors being

unfamiliar with MDS and still seeing the words " Down Sydrome " all over his

records, he continued to get the Dx of developmental delay. He was eligible and

signed up for early intervention, but at that time, changes were going on in the

system and the BCW therapists were not getting paid. So,they were losing

therapists. The outcome was my son was left out of getting services because they

refused to pay for in office visits thru BCW even though BCW were paying for

others to get in-office services. I sent a letter to the supervisor andnothing

was ever done about it. We moved and he began getting services, which included

sign language with a wonderful therapist; however, his state/federal funded

insurance (Medicaid) nged their rules again and he lost that therapist. No other

therapist was available in the area for him. The school in that county

discouraged me from enrolling him at age 3 and that put me into tears. As I

began doing all the care for him, I began to see that this as not develpmental

delay. By his time, he was in pre K 4 and getting sick all the time with

repeated Pneumonia diagnosis'. I took the information I had discovered regding

the difference between dev. delay and apraxia along with my son to a doctor, who

had previously said developmental delay, and I put him (the doctor) on the spot.

(We walked away with an apraxia diagnosis about a year ago.) Due to repeated

illness andthe recommendation of the doctors, we withdrew him from school; by

this time,he had a diagnosis of pulmonary infiltrates- bilaterally- due to

chronic respiratory infections he was acquiring at the school system.

We moved again and with current IEP in hand (school did an end of year IEP for

him despite his withdrawal), I approached the now local school system. Also, I

had letters in hand that showed he required homebound services in order to get

well from the pulmonary infiltrates.

Since August, they have been fighting me and we have an attorney.

One day a week, which I know is way not enough, by any means, we travel out of

county to get services for ST/OT. (They listened to his speech for about three

minutes and it was extremely obvious to them that it was " full blown

apraxia " .)The night before, they clean down the facility (cleaning lady) and he

is the first person seen that next day. We just began in-home wth a speech

therapist I was able to find (There just are not any in my area for pediatric

in-home speech therapy, as I am too far out in the sticks, I guess. :0((

Anyways, she won't be able to come after June because she is losing one of her

three kids and it won't be worth her while to come out to Toccoa. (She has only

been here once, this past Monday. She is teaching me Beckman Oral Motor, which I

am thankful for, because I cannot get this without taking the courses and in

order to take the courses I have to be a speech therapist, which I am not.)

We started learning sign language when Charlie Hart was a baby; it was a

homeschool project for fun through the local church in Cobb County, wher we used

to live. When he was a baby,he picked up many signs and we were floored because

at that time, there was no speech diagnosis at all. As time went on, he started

signing more when his speech was not well. (And then the rest of the story is

posted above.) Had we had an inkling there was more of an issue or had he not

been diagnosed wrong at birth, we would have noticed more that something was

wrong.There wer other reasons also that we did not notice and I probably would

agree thata lack of bonding attributed to his speech problems as well. Anyway,

we learned that the language was only a problem verbally. He signs well for his

age, but the verbal accompaniments are very inconsistent with errors and

omissions, reversals, and severe groping to try and say the words. When he

finally realized that we could not understand him (when he learned enough sign

to read sentences and express 2 to 3 word sentences), part of the frustration

was gone. We try to keep up the sign because it gives him a sense of belonging

in the world. Everyone needs language, you know.

S, we found this website that allows him to receive free tutoing, but for some

reason no tutor is ever available. I sent an e-mail and we are in the process of

getting that one fixed. I do not want my son to endup 12 years-old without

language; tat worries me. Since he does verbalize, we just also accompany it

with sign. Smetimes the word comes out corrctly (very rare and few and far

between) and ususally it is just apraxic (stroke-like) speech. Strangely enough,

" our " brains are beginning to fill in the gaps and fix the errors. I don't know

if anyone else has experienced this, but truly we are starting to understand

this poor speech.

I homeschool him and two of my girls. Without help here for him, we are limited

on what we can do. Knowing what apraxia is and having the trainig to treat it

are two different things.

Meanwhile, I was panicky....I applied for a scholarship or two that came my way

and we won one scholarship. We were are to get some things like Kaufman speech

supplies, z-vibe, swings, and many other items to hep with his speech that I had

found that I could use. Basically, I had to do mega research to become a speech

therapist and occupational therapist overnight.

So, even though we get roughly two days a week now, it is more like just

beginning one. The ST out of county has been on maternity leave for two months

or more and the fill-in speech therapist does virtually nothing in my eyes. (At

least not what I call speech therapy.) She knows no sign language and the

context of what she says to him all the time is " use your words " . That is it.

Change is an easy word to say, but there is no one to change to.

The school is still resisting modifying the IEP and they want to give services

outside the home,when it has been clearly stated by three doctors that he needs

to limit outside germ exposure in order to get well.

I have the " best attorney " there is in GA (so I have been told), but honestly,

they are slow, but what can one expect PRO BONO. Still, no services.

There is no one to help my son, but me. We have tried it all. We even tried the

Fish Oils and like others here, we noticed a severe change in behavior to

hyperactivity. We had to stop the oils after couple of months, as the behavior

did not stop.

He has a normal EEG and I cannot get the Neuro to call the pace in Texas to give

me full info to even know if he is right handed or left.Three calls and she

fails to call me back. She also won't do an MRI, which I asked for. There is no

use in her eyes.

So, basically, I am left here to do all the research, keep up-to-date and do

trial and error to see what works and what does not. In the meantime, time is

flying by and my son will be SIX in July and summer will be here soon and I have

too often heard about teachers being " off contract " .

I know all about IDEA law, No Child Left Behind, Home Resource, and all

that...still, some schools will fight to the end because they have no one hired

to perform these services.

Did I answer everything? Let me know, I will be glad to fill in any blanks. :0((

But I think that answers all the questions of why I, in articular, know so much

about my son's conition.... " necessity " . If I do not do it, then who will? :0((

[Guest guest]

I do not kw why she is still explaining it to me?

The only way to fix the brain is to treat the brain. I do not intend to wait

years for therapy or just sit and wait to see if this or that happens. I am

going full speed with knowledge I learn to help my son in all ways. It won't

hurt, and that I know for sure.

It is very presumptious to think that no one here uses neuro therapy because I

have receive e-mail's from people on this forum who do and they are supportive

of me. Maybe, they have been through this before and realized they could lead a

horse to water, but could not make it drink? Some people do not like change and

they certainly do not want to be " confused with the facts " . I am not saying who

is right and who is wrong (That is an individual decision), but I " am " saying

that you have to treat the whole person and the brain is the problem with

apraxia (that much we know) and so, why not treat the brain? As I said before, I

would not seek out a cardiologist if my son had a broken leg. With verbal

apraxia, I " will " seek out treatments that are geared towards the condition

(i.e. speech therapists, neurological help, etc...) That seems reasonable. If it

helps or changes the problem at hand, then it must be goal producing.

One must start at the level the cild is at and go from there; that is what

Doman/Delacto methods teache us, and it makes sense.

[Guest guest]

Hi there. I have a 2 yr 8 month daughter with apraxia and hypotonia. I also

believe that you must treat the brain as well as the body. Everything works

together. I recently went to Florida and met with a therapist by the name of

Harper. Her company is called Therapeeds. She calls all the therapies we

are doing splinter therapies. She uses that to explain her theory that all the

therapies we are doing are being plugged into the cortex the top of the brain.

Like little splinters.She said the cortex shouldn't be used to think about

walking, balancing, speaking Ex(ok now I have to round my lips to say O, now I

have to put my toungue to the top of my mouth to make this sound, ect. ect.)

Those actions should just emerge. She said the cortex should be used to learn

colors, shapes, reading, right from wrong, ect. ect. She said if I don't treat

the other parts of the brain, when my daughter goes into school she will

struggle and have major issues because instead of using the cortex to learn, she

will be using it to thing " ok I have to sit up straight, hold my pencil this

way, round my lips to make that sound,close my mouth when I'm not talking, ect.

ect. " She then explained to me there are four levels of the brain. The bottom

part is the section that controls your infant reflexes, the next is primitive

reflexes, I forgot what the next part is and then the top being your cortex.

After testing my daughter she has determined the bottom part of her brain is

fine, she has lost all her infant reflexes, something a 5 month old would

normally do, the next part of the brain is your primitive reflexes and my

daughter still has hers and she shouldn't. So basically I need to treat that

first to make all the other issues and therapies work better. Her basic theory

is you need to do therapies in order of the brain. I'm doing (D) now and (A) has

been done but I need to do B and C before D. She of course explains this much

better then I'm doing. She says nobody taught us how to talk and walk, we just

emerged to do that. She said my daughter will never emerge until we do the

therapies in the proper order for the brain. She has had great success with many

testimonials from parents all over the world. She has learned her technique from

Poland. Whats weird is we used to live in Florida right by her office and she

came to a play group when my daughter was 3 months old to do free evals. At this

point we didn't know my daughter had any issues except constant screaming which

we later found out was GERD (reflux). I remember her taking my baby and sticking

her finger in her mouth and telling me my daughter was going to have speech

issues ans sensory issues. I left there freaking out first because some stranger

put her finger in my child's mouth (I WAS A GERMAPHOBIC) and secondly I thought

she was crazy and just looking to make some money by getting me in her office. I

wish I would have went to her then. Maybe my daughter would have been resolved

by now. Anyway, we are going fly there this summer to do one of her intensives.

Very expensive but her theory makes sense to me. FYI my daughter has been in

extensive therapies since 5 months old when we realized she had torticollis and

we have been in therapy ever since. Right now we do s/t 5xs a week, oral therapy

1x a week, 2 p/t, 2 o/t, and 1 hippa. My daughter is almost 3 (May 31) She

walks, (we were told she may never walk), runs, just started jumping, can do

stairs holding rail, and acts pretty much like her typical peers. As far as her

speech she has between 25-50 understandable words and many more approximations.

She is just starting to put 2 words together and we are hoping to do a Kaufman

intensive in the near future. People out in public never realize that my

daughter has disabilities. I know that is mostly because of her age but that's

why we are so aggressive now so she does not fall that far behind. We also do

omega 369 and will be adding the other soon. I believe the more aggressive we

are now the better quality of life for my child and myself. We can't keep

looking at what has worked in the past alone. We must move forward and add to

what has worked in the past until we can say RESOLVED.

[Guest guest]

+

Perhaps Kaufmann can be included in NDT, I'm not sure as I am not very familiar

with the Kaufman method, we have only been at it for 1 month. The NDT technique

uses intensity, frequency, and duration as there keys methods. Doing the

flashcards for my son, usually 20 cards flashed at 1 second intervals for 2

minutes, 4 times a day did not work with my son. He was unable to process that

quickly. Also, his auditory process and visual processing is very minimal, which

NDT addresses. I didn't understand why it wasn't working until I started with

the SLP as she noticed his processing was extremely slow. The part of the NDT

that seemed to be successful was the therapy that dealt with more OT and PT.

The therapy that was obviously immediately successful for my son, besides adding

SL was Interactive Metronome therapy. I became a certified provider and after 3

sessions my son would echo what we said. We had been trying to do that (it was

part of the NDT protocol) for 1 1/2 years with no luck. IM therapy works on

motor planning skills, amongst many others and has been proven to help build

neuropathways. That was so exciting to finally hear my son repeat our words,

although certainly not clear,the syllabication and intonation was there. I took

a break from the IM therapy but have recently resumed this past week. It's

seems to be truly amazing how it helps. It seems to make my son come alive and

" with it " , if you know what I mean, being more willing to respond, more

attentive, more happy. It's quite exciting. Combining of all of these methods

of therapy, I have high hopes for my little guy, although it will be a long

stretch of time....he's worth it!

God's blessings to all of you wonderful parents working so hard for your little

ones,

Jane

www.KidsHealthNaturally.com

www.HealthChatter.com

[Guest guest]

Well that's not far from where I live -and the professional I highly respect in

your area of Florida is Dr. Renai Jonas for many reasons..one because she's a

speech therapist. She is not a very expensive occupational therapist like the

person you are seeing at Theraseed - and as a speech therapist, Dr. Renai Jonas

has brought words to children who have been exposed to various other treatments

and therapists -including some that upset Renai. I'll call her and ask her

about Therapeeds.

But I (again) want to clarify that there is nobody at all in this group who

would disagree to a multisensory approach to therapy (that I know of) but that

doesn't mean that just any random brain stimulation will be appropriate therapy

for a motor planning impaired of speech child. Check the archives and you'll

see that I talk about multisensory therapies and " brain stimulation " since even

before Tanner was born -as it was first told to me to help my first son Dakota's

traumatic birth trauma in 1994.

Will put this link on a separate line so this is clear that the debate has

nothing at all in any way to do with my disbelief in " brain stimulation " or

multisensory therapies...also Tara you'll see that torticollis was just one of

the severe issues that Dakota overcame in therapy...early. And all his therapy

was done by an occupational therapist -but in a neurologist's office overseen by

a neurologist (Dr. Trevor De Souza)

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/workandfamily.html

My hair stands up when I hear some methods are tons of money and they are

unproven theories...and now this one is by an occupational therapist who

reportably is able to diagnose a speech problem by sticking her finger in a

baby's mouth. In addition if anyone is going to do testing of my child's

brain...it will be a neurologist (that's also who first taught me about brain

stimulation)

But back to apraxia -again it is pretty well known at this point what works for

apraxia of today. And first would be appropriate, intensive and if possible

almost daily one on one traditional speech therapy with traditional and/or

sensory occupational therapy as well. But yes -alternative therapies -there are

many this group have used over the years.

To be honest however Tara while I agree and state all the time that the brain

responds to multiple stimuli -I don't know about this occupational therapist's

very expensive theories- probably most of all because in my opinion an

occupational therapist should work with a speech therapist -but is not qualified

to do speech therapy with a child that has apraxia. I will be getting back to

all with Dr. Renai Jonas' views.

Must be a Jersey thing but any therapist, speech or occupational tells me my son

" won't " do something...especially if that's followed by " if you don't spend this

amount of money so we can get your child to do this first " -I'm off to find a

new therapist/second opinion.

Tara have you taken your child to a neurologist or developmental pediatrician to

get a second opinion on this woman's theories about your precious child?

Oh and PS -I'm not germaphobic but I'd have a huge problem with anyone,

including a professional, sticking their finger into my three year old's mouth

without asking me.

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi . I actually live in Ga now so we will be flying back to Florida for the

intensive. It is a 3 week intensive 3 to 4 hours a day working with a s/t , o/t,

and a p/t.It cost 6500.00 believes in therapies just doing it in the right

order. This is not the fix all for my daughter, I realize she will continue her

therapies when we get home.I will find out the name of the woman in Poland and

the name of the method they use.I would love it if you could ask your friend

about it.I asked several of my therapists here about it and 2 knew of and

one took her courses and has her book and told me she is the sensory o/t guru.

The reason I am really considering doing it is because I have a friend who runs

playgroups for the last 15 years for both typical and special needs children.

/she has seen children who could not say more than 10-15 words after doing an

intensive with 's group have 5 word sentences and just explode with speech

from that point on. She has also seen kids that would never participate in play

group- (walk the perimeter of the room, rock back and fourth, freak out if

anyone touched them, just some examples) come back as happy well adjusted kids

mainstreaming in school and having healthy social lives. Obviously my daughter

is not autistic but if she can help children like this I wonder what she can do

for my daughter. At this point I will try anything. Does it piss me off that she

charges 6500.00 for 3 weeks/ You bet ya! But my friend has sent many kids to her

group over the years and the parents can't thank her enough. I spoke to a few as

I wanted to get real references and as one mom told me- they had tried

everything and this was the only thing that worked. Another mom told me she came

home with a child that she never thought she would have. she just kept saying i

now have a child.As far as a neuro- we have seen 4 of them 1 at Univeristy of

Miami, 1 from Miami Childrens Hospital Dan Marino Center and 2 new ones in Ga.

When I went to visit at therapeeds a few months ago to get an eval I went

to see My old neuro at Miami Childrens Hospital Dan Marino Center Dr. Epstein. I

talked a while to him about 's theory and how she referred to the brain

like a computer. If its a hardware problem we know are limitations and would

push past them, but if its a software problem it can be re-wired much like a

computer. Dr. Epstein actually like the comparison of the brain to a computer

and the whole software/hardware example. He then said she's not far off but

again what works for some does not work for all and he gave me the example of

glutein/casein free diets work for some and not for others. To be honest after

going to all 4 neuros I've come to the conclusion they no much about nothing.

As far as a dev. Ped we went to one recently and he didn't tell me anything I

didn't know and he cost me over 1000.00. We have also just had our appt with

Sharon Wexler who is a myofunctiol/oral motor speech therapist. she came highly

regarded and we will now be adding her 1x a week to do some intensive oral motor

therapy.She says my daughter has a reverse swallow and that she is using her rip

and tear teeth to grind. She is keeping all her food in the front of her mouth

instead of moving it side to side with her tongue(probably why we have had a few

close calls with choking She also believes like that everything needs to

be done in order.She also is expensive and does not take insurance but it seems

like most of the good therapist's here in Ga don't. They give you the paperwork

to file your own claim.She also gave me the name to 2 oral surgeons, she says

underneath my daughters tongue is tight and she wants it clipped. I have heard

this from another of my daughters s/t as well but she was trying to stretch it.

I also recently sent a dvd to Kaufman. We are hoping to get in with her as

well.

also told me my daughters mouth is not on - that is why she stuffs food in

her mouth. she also said she has no body awareness which is true because she

runs into things or people all the time. Sharon agree with all of this.

As far as julia sticking her finger in my daughters mouth at 3 months I remember

her pressing down on her tounge and doing some kind of exercises with it. I mean

I must say she was right my daughter does have speech issues. Of course I was

freaking out about the finger in the mouth I wasn't paying much attention. I

just wanted my child (who was screaming) away from her. Now that I think about

it she also told me she was having feeding because of her suck and swallow. I

didn't believe it because my daughter gained weight . But she was right, my

daughter would nurse sometimes 4-5 hours continuously . I just thought it was

becuase of the reflex , I assumed it just felt cool going down. At 5 months I

took her to a s/t at Joe Dimaggios childrens hospital to learn to take the

pacifier. She would always gag on it. I would find out later this was because of

her suck, swallow, breath issue. So although I thought was a crazy person

and a thief with her rates, the truth of the matter is she was right on. She is

also very, very big on the whole babies on their bellies- core -core. I

remember her taking my daughter and sticking her on her belly and telling me

must do this several time a day even if my child was screaming. The truth is I

tried a few times a day but I mainly held my child because if she wasn't nursing

she was screaming from reflex.

I guess at this point I am getting desperate. I feel like if I don't try this

intensive What if? What if this is the one thing that can really help her take

off?If I don't go wasn't drive myself crazy wondering what If?

-------------- Original message from " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>:

--------------

Well that's not far from where I live -and the professional I highly respect in

your area of Florida is Dr. Renai Jonas for many reasons..one because she's a

speech therapist. She is not a very expensive occupational therapist like the

person you are seeing at Theraseed - and as a speech therapist, Dr. Renai Jonas

has brought words to children who have been exposed to various other treatments

and therapists -including some that upset Renai. I'll call her and ask her about

Therapeeds.

But I (again) want to clarify that there is nobody at all in this group who

would disagree to a multisensory approach to therapy (that I know of) but that

doesn't mean that just any random brain stimulation will be appropriate therapy

for a motor planning impaired of speech child. Check the archives and you'll see

that I talk about multisensory therapies and " brain stimulation " since even

before Tanner was born -as it was first told to me to help my first son Dakota's

traumatic birth trauma in 1994.

Will put this link on a separate line so this is clear that the debate has

nothing at all in any way to do with my disbelief in " brain stimulation " or

multisensory therapies...also Tara you'll see that torticollis was just one of

the severe issues that Dakota overcame in therapy...early. And all his therapy

was done by an occupational therapist -but in a neurologist's office overseen by

a neurologist (Dr. Trevor De Souza)

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/workandfamily.html

My hair stands up when I hear some methods are tons of money and they are

unproven theories...and now this one is by an occupational therapist who

reportably is able to diagnose a speech problem by sticking her finger in a

baby's mouth. In addition if anyone is going to do testing of my child's

brain...it will be a neurologist (that's also who first taught me about brain

stimulation)

But back to apraxia -again it is pretty well known at this point what works for

apraxia of today. And first would be appropriate, intensive and if possible

almost daily one on one traditional speech therapy with traditional and/or

sensory occupational therapy as well. But yes -alternative therapies -there are

many this group have used over the years.

To be honest however Tara while I agree and state all the time that the brain

responds to multiple stimuli -I don't know about this occupational therapist's

very expensive theories- probably most of all because in my opinion an

occupational therapist should work with a speech therapist -but is not qualified

to do speech therapy with a child that has apraxia. I will be getting back to

all with Dr. Renai Jonas' views.

Must be a Jersey thing but any therapist, speech or occupational tells me my son

" won't " do something...especially if that's followed by " if you don't spend this

amount of money so we can get your child to do this first " -I'm off to find a

new therapist/second opinion.

Tara have you taken your child to a neurologist or developmental pediatrician to

get a second opinion on this woman's theories about your precious child?

Oh and PS -I'm not germaphobic but I'd have a huge problem with anyone,

including a professional, sticking their finger into my three year old's mouth

without asking me.

=====

[Guest guest]

Yuppers-- from what I understand it will always remain present , but you can

lessen or even erradicate the symptoms

becky

In a message dated 4/3/2009 8:34:04 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

jennyjudy@... writes:

I guess I didn't know it was a lifelong condition.

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or

less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

[Guest guest]

I know several people on this list who have-- and they've had great results.

My Asa is only 4 1/2 and we've been dealing with myriads of OTHER issues he

has on top of the Dyspraxia,(just DX's with Juv Diabetes, serious orthopedic

problems, and others as well)

so we have *NOT* started him officially on any of the NDT. We will

shortly, however-- because I know it will help.

With my OLDER son, who we know to have Dyspraxia, but showing DIFFERENT

SYMPTOMS than Asa altogether, *HE* has done NDT and we had AMAZING success with

them. It was through a Neurological chiropractor who specializes in helping

kids like this, and my son did quite well with it.

He is also doing an Educational Therapy Program through NILD here at home,

and THAT has been amazing, and I believe many of their techniques are also

NDT.

Now Asa is the one with Dyspraxia AND Verbal Apraxia, so I'll let you know

how the NDT will work with him.

My older son does NOT have Verbal Apraxia, but other issues related to the

Dyspraxia

hope that helps

Becky

In a message dated 4/3/2009 2:39:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

jmj4life83@... writes:

bek, just curious, do you have experience using NDT with an apraxic child

personally ?

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or

less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

[Guest guest]

Kaufmann and NDT ABSOLUTELY CAN be used together!!! ABSOLUTELY!!!

there's no reason why they couldn't be combined therapies.

In a message dated 4/4/2009 12:02:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

jmj4life83@... writes:

Perhaps Kaufmann can be included in NDT, I'm not sure as I am not very

familiar with the Kaufman method, we have only been at it for 1 month. The NDT

technique uses intensity, frequency, and duration as there keys methods. Doing

the flashcards for my son, usually 20 cards flashed at 1 second intervals for

2 minutes, 4 times a day did not work with my son. He was unable to process

that quickly. Also, his auditory process and visual processing is very

minimal, which NDT addresses. I didn't understand why it wasn't working until I

started with the SLP as she noticed his processing was extremely slow. The part

of the NDT that seemed to be successful was the therapy that dealt with more

OT and PT.

**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or

less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)