Re: damage to school relationship-Theresa

February 28, 2009

Sherry you said you are open for all suggestions -so I'll try to very

gently give you mine.

First of all -yes I suggest the massage (on a tropical island beach

somewhere- pina colada optional) And I also agree that some of the

professionals working with Josh appear to be treating him in an

inappropriate way. In checking the archives it does appear that

hitting is part of who Josh has been throughout the years and

throughout the years there are strategies that have worked to a point

-some better than others...but hitting is an ongoing issue. I know

you know how to deal with Josh when you are with him -but it appears

to me that there may be things on your end that needs to be changed as

well for the sake of Josh when you are not with him. Suggestion one

is in addition to caring about why Josh hits and strategies to deal

with it -compassion for those that are hit by him. With the teacher

for example that is no longer really talking to you...when you found

out Josh hits in the class and you wrote your notes -in addition to

finding out the possible reasons for why he hit and strategies taken,

do you also ask " how is the child that got hit? Is he/she OK? " Did

you try to contact the parent of the child he hit and have Josh apologize?

Both of my boys were late talkers as you know and of course both went

through great frustrations -but we never accepted hitting. As you'll

read in the archive below I have suggestions for another parent here

who's child choked another child because he was (from memory) talking

when he was supposed to be quiet in class.

Perhaps you'll recall this archive as I know you have been a member

for awhile. I'm posting it because I feel you too can benefit from

some of the same advice:

" While working on alternative ways for him to

deal with frustrations and defense appropriately, it's probably best

to get to the bottom of it with the causes/triggers.

Have you thought of working in clay with to find out why he

acted out by choking someone, which is a potentially dangerous way

to deal with anger and frustration? As you say, not to excuse the

negative behavior, but see if you can find out what the cause was.

This may provide clues to the cause.

needs to be taught what to do for anger/defense by acting

scenarios out perhaps. Give him a list of things he 'can' do such

as if talking well enough -leave and tell a teacher if not talking -an

augmentative way to leave and tell a teacher (pictures -even one you

make up and tell him to use when he needs it if it ends up this other

child is the bully. For emergencies -we gave Tanner a whistle when he

couldn't talk and he loved that even though he thank God never needed

to use it for emergencies.)

If it ends up that reacted poorly to this other child for

little reason and choked him when most would have just said " that's

my toy " , pushed vs. punched or whatever...Talk to about his

actions and explain why he's being punished. Take away ___ for

a day or so, have him make a picture of himself and the other child

for an apology picture. Let him know that he not only hurt this

other little boy's feelings, but that it's never OK to grab someone

by the neck and choke them. That if you or daddy did that you would

go to jail!

I don't believe in hitting a child to stop them from hitting

others. My brother sister and I were never spanked by our parents

so that's the way I was raised. However I do believe if this was

virtually unprovoked that 's actions need to be punished -and he

needs to understand why. He needs to learn that these types of

actions are completely unacceptable. Wild or not -and I have tons

of boys in my neighborhood that will fight here and there -they know

what not to do and choking is one of them.

I hope I'm not being too strong when I say the following -but I feel

strongly about this for a few reasons which I'll explain.

When a parent calls to tell you what happened -don't make excuses

for by saying " he's frustrated because he can't talk " I've

posted about a parent who did that with her son after he punched

Tanner in the face and made him cry and punched Dakota in the back

and made him cry because " that's his way of talking " his mother told

us with a weak smile. My husband went off on her as to how " that's

no excuse and we don't allow our children to " talk " this way " (both

Dakota and Tanner were " late talkers " and frustrated at times) That

was the first and only play date with this family -never again.

Don't fall into the parent trap of babying your baby this way/making

excuses for poor actions - or he'll grow up with few friends to play

with.

Make a punching bag that he can hit whenever he is angry or

frustrated that you can have at home too. And here's the other

reason I feel strong about no excuses for poor behavior. In the

long run you'll hurt your child so much more.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end of archive:

Sometimes we as parents create some of the down the road behavioral

issues. Let me explain in a way that is more of a norm for this group

on how we create problems and I am guilty too of this one.

We have a child that doesn't talk -can't say " da " or " ma " or just

about anything. We plead, pray, beg, spend endless hours in therapy,

reading up on neurology, spend way more money then we have on therapy

and strategies too...and one day we hear the first words that came so

effortlessly to everyone else's child. They come one at a time -and

we treasure each new sound/syllable and word- and yell from the

rooftops at the first sentence as if it's a miracle happening right in

front of us because to us....it is. They ask us for a cookie -do we

say " no " when they first ask? -are you kidding?!! They say " shut up "

and we stop in shock -not because they said " shut up " but because HE

JUST SAID 2 WORDS!!! hahaha we'll laugh even, not realizing that like

all other children -our " late talker " children also need boundaries-

for their own good!

And yes we all pay for that down the road because in some ways our

late talker children are a bit spoiled- and I have no problem with

that to a point. Goodness knows the poor little things do go through

so much.

But Sherry -I know that some OT years ago (archive below) says that

hitting is Josh's way of communicating but to me there is NO excuse

for hitting...ever. He's still a kid but he gets older hitting will

continue to be worse- and please read the articles I have below about

the number of children today getting arrested for bad behavior/hitting.

I'm aware that with the emotional situation you are in right now that

it's probably difficult to put any further stress on Josh -but want to

try to help you in any way I can. I have put a call into Cheryl who

I'm sure will have advice. While I am not at all a fan of ABA therapy

for any aspect of apraxia -I am aware that it can be effective to

address severe behavioral issues. In my opinion you'd be wise to seek

an evaluation by a behavioral health professional. At the very least,

the clinician can give you some guidance on how to manage the behavior

and can determine if your son could benefit from this type of therapy.

(or is he already receiving it?)

Here's a message of yours from 2007:

Re: [ ] Sensory issues and hitting and Cognition

Hi, Joni -

Josh has a tendency to be a hitter as well. I had an OT tell me one

time(after he hauled off and hit her) that really what we need to do

is look at the hitting in a different light. I know that, with Josh,

it's not that he has a " mean streak " or anything like that. But, as

the OT said, the hitting needs to be looked at as a means of

communication. If you can step back from a situation (and I know this

is most difficult when all you get from school are reports that

read " hard day, lots of hitting " ) to see what the context is for the

hit, then maybe you can address the underlying reason rather than just

the hit, and then you can work on other ways to communicate your dd's

emotions.

For instance, when anyone gets into Josh's " space, " he would hit them.

Well, duh, if he hasn't got he words yet to tell the person to get out

of his " space " (or, at times, face!), then how else is he supposed to

let the person know? When your dd is sitting in group time, are there

children sitting close to her? Does she do well sitting on the rug or

on a chair? Could there be a bit more

space given to her (for her sake and the other kids - how can your dd

concentrate and focus when she's really worried about the kid sitting

too close to her for her comfort?)? I worked for a long time with

teachers getting them to let Josh sit on a plastic chair rather than

the rug (sitting cross-legged on the floor is very distressing to some

kids with sensory and balance issues), and I've worked very hard with

Josh to " use his words " to tell the person to " move please! "

By using that type of strategy, I have not seen Josh hit anyone for a

good long time now. JMTC.

Sherry and Josh

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I do wonder if that OT would give that same advice today...I wouldn't

have even back then -but look what is happening today " just " from hitting:

10-year-old Autistic student arrested

By Maggie Crane, WINK News

Story Updated: Feb 13, 2009 at 9:21 PM EST

Cape Coral police arrest a 10-year-old student for allegedly kicking

and hitting his teacher.

Ian Garvin's mom, Hawk, says the boy is autistic.

Hawk says tells WINK News the punishment doesn't fit the crime,

because she says what Ian is accused of, he didn't do maliciously.

Ian faces felony battery charges, is suspended from school for four

days and is ordered to be on home detention, according to his mom.

" Hawk says her son cut his shirt because he was hot and acted out

against his teachers because he wanted to be alone. She says it's

common behavior for autistic children, like her son, who emotionally

and behaviorally acts like a 5-year-old "

http://www.winknews.com/news/local/39597487.html

School Has Autistic Child Arrested

Posted by JeanneSager

Charges of battery against an eight-year-old with Asperger's syndrome

have been dropped, and her parents are now pursuing legal action

against the Idaho school district that called law enforcement.

What's wrong with this picture?

Towry was told she couldn't wear her special jacket in class

last week, prompting the little girl (whose diagnosis of Asperger's

falls on the autism spectrum) to become resistant and act out in the

classroom. But instead of telling the child she could just wear her

jacket, school officials said they called the cops, alleging she

assaulted school staff during the incident. She's eight. And autistic.

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/archive/2009/01/19/school-calls-pol\

ice-on-autistic-child.aspx

Police Arrest 5- and 6-Year Olds - Caught on Video

April 19, 2007 by Aly Adair

Is This Really the Proper Discipline for Kindergarten?

What is one thing school officials are doing to control unruly

children in classrooms? They are calling the police and having the

children arrested - but some of the children are in kindergarten.

There are shocking video clips of these children being arrested that

should raise public concern over the use of this discipline in public

schools. I understand the challenges of school officials trying to

keep schools safe since I used to be a high school teacher. Perhaps

for children at this age, medical professionals, rather than law

enforcement, should be called to assist school staff.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/210086/police_arrest_5_and_6year_olds_c\

aught.html?cat=17

Children with Disabilities Arrested For Behavior Dec. 12 2008

The I Team discovered that more Minnesota kids with autism and

developmental disabilities are actually getting arrested.

http://www.truveo.com/Children-With-Disabilities-Arrested-For-Behavior/id/324477\

9948

In the above the mother excuses the child (allegedly diagnosed with

autism -but doesn't appear autistic in the interview) bringing a knife

to school but the child feels bad about the situation. What would

have happened if this child with the knife got upset -and he stabbed

and killed another child?

Not saying that there aren't special needs, but we also need to

remember the " shut up " example and set boundaries for our child's sake.

As parents of special needs children while advocating for our own

child we also have to remember that other parents have children in the

same class or school. While we advocate to keep our child in the

mainstream, if there are strong behavioral issues we have to also

appreciate that these children have a right to be at school and feel

safe. I have a friend with a background in psychology who worked for

a short time with autistic children with severe behavioral issues and

had to stop working because one jumped her and it pulled various

muscles in her back. (she told me typically they had some pretty

large men to help in the class as these were older children and at

that time it caught all off guard)

I don't have children that are aggressive to others or that have

behavioral issues. It may be possible that Josh's placement is not

the least restrictive environment for him. I don't know how he will

deal with being in Jr.HS either as I really don't know that much about

the situation. It's also possible you won't get the correct advice

about what's the most appropriate placement from his current school

professionals. For example the school principal may only be agreeing

Jr. HS is a good idea because that will mean Josh will no longer be in

his school. Do you still have access to Dr. Bob to run things by him?

If not to me it appears you'll receive the best advice from those

outside of your school at this point.

Also -not sure how this may help but an interesting article:

Replacing punishment with education

How can eradicating detention lead to a decrease in challenging

behaviour? Geraldine Rowe describes how her discovery of choice theory

caused her to rethink her approach to discipline

Two years ago, I was talking with an Australian teacher about the

psychology behind school detention. Punishing children in this way,

with the expectation that it will `teach them a lesson', is a sanction

commonly used by teachers in response to incidents ranging from

forgotten homework to violent and abusive behaviour. The teacher

described how her school in Queensland had eradicated detention as a

result of training in something called choice theory. The more she

talked about the impact of this theory on her school, the more

interested I became.

Questioning what we do

At the time, I was a senior educational psychologist for a large

London borough. Intrigued, I started studying choice theory,

particularly the writings of American psychiatrist Glasser. As

I did so, I began to question many of the things I was doing. Already

practised in solution-focused approaches, and well-versed in personal

construct theory among other person-centred philosophies, I was

immediately attracted to Glasser's radical and logical ideas.

I began to rethink both my approaches to case work and the way I

managed my team. The following summer, I left my job to work as a

freelancer trainer and consultant introducing choice theory to schools.

Handling students well

A recent large-scale study discovered that there are three major

characteristics that differentiate those teachers who handle pupils

well from those who do not. The effective teachers:

have an idea about where the behaviour comes from or what caused it

understand that no individual can control another (even though we

often try to!)

are in control of themselves when dealing with that behaviour.

Internal control psychology helps us to understand why people make the

behavioural choices they make. Armed with a good knowledge of this

straightforward theory, teachers can begin to redesign their classroom

practices to respect the inevitable pattern of human behaviour. School

managers can adapt their management styles to do the same.

What is choice theory?

Like other internal control psychologies, choice theory argues that

all our behaviour has a purpose, and that this purpose involves the

satisfaction of our biological and psychological needs.

Choice theory is so called because all behaviour is our best attempt,

at that moment, to control ourselves. The only behaviour that a person

has any control over is their own. One person cannot `make' another

person do anything that he or she chooses not to do. This explains why

authoritarian management does not, and will not, result in long-term

behaviour change.

Those who study internal control psychology come to recognise that all

behaviour is internally motivated. Rewards and sanctions may result in

short-term compliance, but will never be an effective way of helping a

person to change their behaviour in the long term.

Five needs

Choice theory explains that everyone is born with a genetically

inherited combination of basic needs:

Survival – we need to feel safe and healthy.

Love and belonging – we need to care and be cared for, and to feel as

though we belong.

Fun and enjoyment – we need to feel good about what we do.

Power and self-worth – we need to feel worthwhile and in control of

our lives.

Freedom – we need to feel free to make choices and not to feel forced

or threatened.

Once we are conscious of these needs, and become personally aware of

how we generally go about trying to satisfy them, we realise that we

have more control over our lives than we previously thought. This

means we can stop blaming others for the choices we have made.

From the first time we step foot in a classroom, we start to gather

memories of the ways in which we perceive that our five needs can be

met. One teacher will mentally record that getting to know all the

pupils' names meets his need for love and belonging, and also

strengthens his influence over the class that satisfies his need for

power and self-worth. Another teacher perceives that her need for

freedom and self-worth can be met by regular antagonistic debate in

the staffroom. It does not matter whether these behaviours are

successful in meeting an individual's needs: it is each person's

perception of their likely effectiveness that keeps the behaviours

going even in the face of contradictory evidence.

Reflecting on children's behaviour for a moment, it is not too

difficult to imagine how the child who comes to school `looking for a

fight' has developed the perception that fighting is the best way he

can satisfy his need for power and self-worth at school.

The only sustainable way of helping such a child to change this

behaviour is to help him or her to understand that they are seeking to

satisfy a purely natural need (the need for power and self-worth), and

then to help them to find more responsible ways of meeting this need.

Many teachers are already responding to children in a similar way with

great success, even though they are unaware of the theory that

explains their success.

Application to schools

This explanation of human behaviour has been applied by people with an

interest in preventing school failure, and in defining the psychology

that explains why some people are happy to work hard in school, and

others are not.

When teachers adopt choice theory as their frame of reference, they

start to recognise how their attempts at controlling others by the use

of such behaviours as nagging, criticising, constant checking up,

punishing and rewarding destroy the very relationships that could

result in harmony and trust.

Schools using internal control psychology find that they can replace

many of the coercive techniques traditionally associated with school

discipline with new methods that encourage respect and responsibility.

A growing number of headteachers and school principals across the

world base their school culture on internal control psychology.

These schools can be recognised by the way they have begun to:

replace punishment with approaches that educate and support pupils

empower pupils rather than control them

encourage pupils to evaluate their own behaviours and reflect on their

own learning strategies

stimulate discussion about `quality'

enable students and teachers to see each other as allies in a learning

community, who need to get along.

Teachers and heads who invest the time to plan and manage their

classrooms and schools so as to ensure that they are needs-satisfying

environments for staff and students alike have many fewer incidents of

violence, disruption and absence. Also, the children are more likely

to produce work of a high quality.

www.talkpsychology.co.uk

Books by Glasser

Every Student Can Succeed (2001) – describes what to do and say to

challenging students.

Theory in the Classroom (1998) – proposes the use of learning teams to

capture the excitement students experience in sport.

The Quality School Teacher (1998) – outlines he specifics that

teachers need to create a quality classroom.

The Quality School (1998) – discusses the need to replace coercive

management with systems that bring staff and students closer together.

Schools without Failure (1969) – proposes a programme based on

involvement, relevance and thinking.

Glasser Institute

http://www.teachingexpertise.com/articles/replacing-punishment-with-education-32\

62

And one last bit of advice -call Boys and Girls Town: The Boys Town

Hotline is a crisis hotline available 24/7 to help you with just about

any problem. Call 1-800-448-3000 today!

Huge hugs,

=====

February 28, 2009

Hi -

A lot to respond to.Â First, absolutely, the first question is always is the

other person OK?Â In fact, until the last couple of weeks since the p-t

conference, if there was something in the notebook about Josh striking out, the

teacher would automatically put in (because she knew that would be my first

question) that the other person was fine and not to worry about it.Â Second,

the therapist I've been taking Josh to since early November has given many, many

strategies to me that I immediately pass along to the school (teacher and school

psychologist) - methods that incorporate behavior modification and something

similar to the choice program you included toward the bottom of your email.Â

The therapist, in our sessions and in my emails to school after each session,

stresses redirection the minute Josh starts displaying any stress - at the p-t

conference, redirection was never mentioned nor did the idea make it into the

written synopsis of the p-t

conference.Â The school has tried only a couple of the suggestions, for just a

brief period of time, and determined they " don't work for Josh, " and end them.Â

As you know, apraxia or dyspraxiaÂ affecting any part of the system requires

consistency and repetition before a child will be able to master whatever the

task is - all the more reason why attempts at the strategies recommended by the

therapist should be given an honest effort.Â Third, when I talk about

strategies, that doesn't mean the strategy precludes punishment of some type and

working toward Josh understanding what he did was wrong.Â Indeed, Josh

expresses remorse when he does something, and he knows while he's doing it that

it's wrong - something that makes him even more upset because he couldn't

control himself to begin with.Â I completely agree that hitting of any type is

simply wrong - confession time - I remember when Josh was very little, I swatted

him on the behind (still in a

pull-up at the time) and I cried for hours - I just feel it's wrong, period.Â

That's why things like the CPI restraints and holds, while not hitting, are

demonstrating to a child that violence is all right and that it is OK for an

adult to treat child in such a violent manner - and I also believe that it can

lead to children being victimized in other ways.Â If it's OK for an adult to

treat a child the way advocated by the CPI, a child can believe it's OK for an

adult to treat a child in other inappropriate ways.Â As with hitting, it's all

simply wrong.Â And, fourth, I don't apologize for Josh's behavior when it does

happen.Â In fact, there have been times in the past that Josh has struck out at

someone and the person has said to me, " Oh, it's OK. " Â My response always has

been, " No, it's not OK.Â Josh should not be hitting... " and so on in front of

Josh, right there at the moment, so that he can understand that what he did was

wrong, that the

person was hurt, that hitting or striking out or whatever should never be the

way to handle a situation, and that he needs to apologize.Â I joke about it now

(somewhat), but Josh's first full sentences were " I did it! " and " I'm sorry! " Â

The therapist Josh has been seeing is big into preventive-type " medicine. " Â

Work with Josh intensively on behavior modification strategies, learn to " read "

Josh and do what is possible to minimize the possibility that Josh will be in a

situation that might evoke a " fight " response (or prepare him for those

situations that will likely result in something), praise him for when he uses

his own self-control, and do all of this consistently in all his environments.Â

We're working on impulse control in the sessions.Â These are all things I've

been doing with Josh for years and, with only rare exceptions, I have no

problems with Josh at home, at my family's homes, when he and I are out and

about, in friends' homes, in restaurants, and, according to my ex, in his home

and those of his family.Â And, once the school personnel do understand the

situation and use behavior modification strategies, the instances of hitting in

the school setting are minimized as

well.Â For instance, even now, Josh's afterschool care people had been having

problems with Josh at about the same time the problems arose in the classroom -

in October.Â I talked with the afterschool folks about the same strategies and

methods I had suggested to the classroom/school folks.Â Since school started

again after the winter holiday, Josh has been holding hands with the staff

members, resting his head on the shoulder of one of them, giving them hugs and

kisses (at appropriate times - when we're leaving, etc.), talking more with

them, and he's been playing with the other kids in afterschool care - he and one

little girl are the only special needs kids, the rest are " normally developing "

kids - without problem, playing basketball, playing catch, going outside,

staying on task when the kids are supposed to be quiet and do homework,Â and so

on.Â They are much more relaxed with Josh, even though there are more kids in

afterschool care than in

Josh's classroom, and I think that plays a huge part in Josh's ability to

control himself more in afterschool care.

So, in that respect, you could very well be right that Josh is not in the least

restrictive environment - something that I have been fighting for since

kindergarten, that he be included in the regular classrooms if not

mainstreamed.Â I know Josh is never going to be a nuclear physicist but there

is no reason why he can't be in a regular classroom to learn the behaviors of

the " normally developing " kids, and accomplish what he is capable of in a

regular ed classroom.Â What he has had, and has now, are kids with behavior

issues of various types that are part and parcel of their own conditions (it

isn't a behavior disorder classroom - it's a CD classroom) - and I'm not in any

way saying Josh's behavior issues are caused by the other kids in his classroom

- but it certainly is not helping him to learn the self-restraint and

self-control that he could be learning in a regular ed classroom.Â I've tried

until I'm blue in the face to sell the schools on

putting him in the regular ed classrooms more but the " fear factor " comes into

play and the argument is that he simply can't handle it.Â It's a vicious

circle.

And, last (maybe!), I agree that there is no excuse for hitting.Â As I said,

hitting is, plain and simple, wrong.Â I think the OT's comment that hitting is

communication was said not as an excuse that would relieve the child of the

responsibility of having hit, but as a means to explain to the adults around the

child that, with limited exceptions, kids with apraxia/dyspraxia are

communicating something that they are unable to communicate in a different way -

yet - and they are not using that form of communication in a malicious way.Â

She by no means suggested Josh shouldn't have consequences for the behavior, and

certainly did not mean that leaving it at hitting was OK - Josh needed to learn

a different way to communicate his frustrations and has learned other ways that

he uses in settings outside the classroom.Â Unfortunately, his sensory issues

have been so severe all his life - and once one aspect seemed to resolve

something else crept up - that

he would learn the control over one thing only to lose it over another thing.Â

Does that make sense?Â

Again, I am by no means excusing Josh's behavior and I never have.Â I have to

admit there were a couple of times that I fell into that trap of letting some

negative behavior go by because it was the first time he was able to do

something - when he colored with a crayon on my brand new couch, I didn't

reprimand him or lose my temper or anything like that because, my gosh, it was

the first time (at a very late age) that he actually held the crayon long enough

to do it!Â But, generally, Josh is a very good natured kid (and it's not just

the biased mom that is saying that - his therapist finds him to be a very

engaging, funny, loving, happy kid) - that's why all of the stuff that is going

on in school is so upsetting to me - the worst in Josh is being brought out for

whatever reason, the school personnel are not seeing the kid that pretty much

everyone else in his life and environments see, school personnel are not doing

what can be done to better the

situation, and it's damaging his success (although not academically

apparently).

And, yes, I have seen those reports of 10yo kids being arrested because of their

behaviors in school.Â Believe me, practicing criminal law, I see cases like

this come across my own desk.Â My biggest fear is that my son's name will be on

one of those files.Â So that's one of my primary reasons, as paranoid as it may

sound, for putting such an emphasis on meaningful ways of dealing with the

hitting/striking out issues with school personnel - Josh needs to have guidance

in all of his environments on building his self-control and managing his

impulsivity.Â Using CPI restraints and holds will not help.Â Having a

classroom aide literally shove a child out of the way as Josh is walking down

the hallway will not help.Â Having a classroom aide drag Josh bodily off a bus

and yell at him in his face will not help.

So I'm certainly no disagreeing with you.Â What I am having problems with are

the school's handling of the situation and not dealing with Josh's underlying

needs.Â They are trying, in what I consider to be an inappropriate manner, to

deal with the immediate behavior at the expense of teaching him appropriate ways

to deal with his frustrations and impulses.Â And the passive/aggressive way the

teacher is now not dealing with me, I think, is going to also have consequences

on Josh's behavior.Â That sounds like I'm passing the buck, and I'm really

not.Â But, like in the quote you have below concerning the methods in the

Australia article, is the discipline the school is employing really teaching

Josh anything that will help him?Â When the school has been given methods to

use by professionals outside the school system, I think the answer to that is

no.

Where is that masseuse....

Sherry and Josh

________________________________

From: kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...>

Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:45:55 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: damage to school relationship-Theresa