/was: Re: New-Intro-Diagnosis comments

[Guest guest]

===>Sorry, no can do, is like asking a lawyer not to look to the law

or a dr

not to look at the PDR. That is the standard.===>

Some of the SLPs or neuromedical doctors look at the DSM but also

look at the child to see what diagnosis best fits that child to

secure the most appropriate services for the symptoms that present.

I've heard from one PhD in speech pathology and one developmental

pediatrician -both respected and knowledgeable about autism as well

as apraxia and other disorders that around 40 percent of the children

they see today diagnosed as autistic are misdiagnosed and were

actually apraxic. While there is a place for psychological exams in

a child with a speech impairment in regards to school testing IMO the

best evaluations for apraxia will be with an SLP and a

neurodevelopmental medical doctor as apraxia in itself is not a

psychological disorder.

Is your child in 1st or 2nd grade?

===>Just started second grade.

Mainstreamed?

===>Yes, no support.

What type of student?

===>Reading tested at 9th grade level, Math 8th grade level. She's in

the

gifted/enrichment program. A's in all academic subjects, Handwriting

grades C+,

B-. And I affectionately called her First Grade teacher, whom I

loved, The

Writing Nazi. Each letter was to be formed with exact precision.

Someone

recently helped me understand that teachers believe that this helps

with reading

fluidity/comprehension, etc.====>

WOW!!!! If this group had HTML place a fainting smiley face here.

Congratulations you are the new hero of the moms here! 8th

and 9th grade level in 2nd grade?!! Do tell all your secrets!!! By

the way one of Tanner's best friends is tested gifted and they are in

touch with a number of programs -I know one is with Nasa as 's

goal is to build a space station on the moon. Is your child a member

of Mensa?

http://www.previous.us.mensa.org/activities/giftedchildren.php3

====>I'm still confused as she had these fluidity/comprehension

skills (according

to her teachers) before she could write so I'm still deciding if

writing is

something very important, for her. Her second grade teacher reported

at our Open

House that her writing is fine, very acceptable and neat. I think she

had the

right child in mind when she was speaking with us :-)====>

Were there delays in speech? I can't recall from your previous

message. here in the US the diagnosis term dyspraxia and apraxia are

used interchangeable even though in some areas of the world it refers

mainly to the motor planning issues of the body. If in speech I know

it can create developmental lags that are not reflective of that

child's cognitive nor receptive ability and when given appropriate

placement most tend to make more than a year's gain in a year's time.

Also apraxia/dyspraxia is typically never just contained to one area.

and I had a discussion about this once and she told me that the

diagnostic criteria for autism was never meant to be diagnostic

criteria -it was meant to be a list of symptoms that typically can

accompany a child with autism. Now that would have made more sense! "

===>And I can find you thousands of psychiatrists that will say that

it WAS

meant to be diagnostic criteria. I refer you to the name of the

book/manual............ " Diagnostic Criteria from DSM-IV. " ===>

Pediatric neurologist Martha Herbert Md PhD is not just any medical

doctor -she was one of the medical doctors who put together the list

of symptoms that typically accompany a child with autism and she said

it was never meant to be a check list.

http://www.massgeneral.org/neurology/childneurology/bios/herbert.html

Here's a page about autism from her site

http://web.mit.edu/autism/herbert.htm and

http://web.mit.edu/autism/ASD.htm

===>The way the DSM works is that the most serious disorder is given,

if there is

a cluster of problems. For example if you have a child with Autism

and/or

Pdd-Nos and they have Developmental Coordination Disorder, the DCD Dx

would NOT

be noted, just the Pdd-Nos.

The reason so many kids get put in the Pdd-Nos category has to do with

language. If there is no language delay, they are not Autistic...so

the

clinician would look to Asperger's...no encompassing preoccupation

with one or

more stereotyped patterns of interest or inflexible adherence to

routines, or

hand or finger flapping, no Asperger's, would be Pdd-Nos.===>

That doesn't appear to be the case because if a child has sensory

integration dysfunction and apraxia which is a severe motor planning

impairment that can affect both speech and the body many times they

are given the PDD diagnosis -why? What type of placement and therapy

does that provide that child? And what is PDD? Let's ask Dr. Rimland

http://www.autism.org/pdd.html

===>Who might be benefiting from the studies? I guarantee you it

isn't the

parents or families of Autistic children. And what or who is

benefiting from

the rise of Autism that isn't benefiting from the rise of speech-based

disorders? Help me understand this.===>

Those that want to have funds for research will work around the

autism diagnosis to get the funding. I know this for a 100 percent

no doubt about it fact. If there isn't enough autism in the study

those that hold the monies won't fund that study. In addition to

seeing it first hand I was told this by a lawyer from a very large

hospital that it's the way it works. Excuse me if I don't get this

quote exact but something like " if a couple walks in here and the

wife has MS and the husband slaps a million dollar check on the table

and says " I want research " every researcher will be swarming around

to have research to do for MS -and even if that research was

originally developed for say Parkinson's Disease when the study is

published all that will be mentioned is MS even if the exact same

treatment would help those with Parkinson's. Follow the money " I've

seen it and I've heard it.

===>The truth is that there are Autistic children who might fit

anyone of those

theories. Just saying that each child's path into Autism is unique

and there are

many subsets.

Autism is millions of miles more complex than Apraxia, ADD, Dyslexia

or just

about anything else you can name, you'll have to trust me on this as

if you have

a child with just a speech problem, you really have no first hand

experience. No

amount of talking with someone with a child with Autism or even direct

observation would give you a flavor for how devastating this is, you

have to

live with it.

Also consider the story of " The Three Blind Mice " . Remember that

story where

each of the mice who were blind were at different parts of the

elephant and each

reported the elephant was something different; a snake a fan, a tree,

etc?

Autism is very much like this. I predict that we will find that you

and I are

at different parts of the same elephant.====>

No diagnosis should be that wide -that's my point. It's not fair to

those who really are autistic.

===>You and I will, no doubt, very much disagree on this. Whatever

she was

and I could just as easily say she was Apraxic and be happy, but

don't think so,

she no longer needs her cod liver oil or vitamins to function or in

other words

she does not lose her speech or start having word retrieval issues or

quit

noticing other people, if she does not have her vitamins/supplements.

She has been without them for as long as three months with no

discernible

difference in functioning. She does take them for health and

prevention reasons

and they are the same supplements I was given as a child;

multivitamin, clo, E.

And it wasn't the nice tasting, lemony clo that we use, it was

horrible. My

mother was progressive or regressive, take your pick.====>

Tanner regresses as well if not on his fish oils -but he's never been

off of them more than a day. But I still don't look at the oil

therapy as a cure.

===>And I will happily be the first one laughed at to say that this IS

curable, all of it, no matter what you call it. ===>

Well please prove me wrong!

She also had anorexia- as a child?

===>Yes, she could and would go for 4 days and not eat when we were

stupid

enough to listen to stupid people who said she would eat when she was

hungry.

They were, at least right, she just wasn't hungry. Low serotonin was

my guess.

We fed her every single bite of food until she was 5 and 1/2. We used

to joke

that someone would have to go to kindergarten with her and feed her,

but we

weren't really laughing about it.

The first time she said she was hungry, at 5.6 years, I ran for the

video cam.

She was almost hospitalized once for malnutrition. She could have

cared less to

eat. I've heard people complain that their kids want the same foods,

but she

wanted no food.

I'm happy to report she eats normally now, gets hungry, asks for

food, feeds

herself and we just hit 53.5 lbs, we're within normal weight, but it

was THE

struggle of a lifetime, I can't begin to explain or tell you how

horrible this

was.===>

Wow! How prevalent is this? I just searched and found this article

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/42/4/694

I don't buy the 1 in 150 kids anywhere until there is some sort of

blood test etc. It's overblown and misdiagnosed.

===>Help me understand why you're willing to believe the astronomical

rise in

speech-based disorders but not Autism?

You would be the best friend of the CDC who denies that this figure

is correct

or that all the additional immunizations given have anything to do

with the rise

in this figure or the rise in speech-based disorders.

Something horrible is happening to our children. I had the occasion

to spend

the day doing a consult in our little one's kindergarten classroom.

Small but

affluent, very excellent school system, rural as we live among the

Amish.

Twenty-three healthy looking 5 and 6 year olds with clear skin,

bright eyes

and shiny hair. I could only count 8 without some sort of issue;

dyslexia, ADD,

articulation problems, fine motor problems (this is sad as even with

our minor

handwriting issue ours grades as squarely in the middle of the class)

and one

little girl who showed every indication she was on her way to a dx of

Borderline

personality disorder at adolescence.

It was so incredible to me that I asked the teacher to confirm my

number and

we only differed by one. Seven of the eight children I identified

with no

issues......were Amish who don't vaccinate and I'd be willing to bet

my

licenses that the other child had not been vaccinated.===>

I believe there is a rise don't get me wrong. I believe the rise is

in various conditions that include autism as well as apraxia as well

as cancer and heart disease- many things. Being in the special needs

world however and knowing how many today are misdiagnosed and knowing

from my own neighborhood where I lived in NJ how many kids block to

block you can find with apraxia vs autism I say the numbers are

skewed higher for autism. JMO.

OK I'll be specific. What social aspects that can't be explained

away from frustration?

====> Before Biomed, right before, she quit noticing other kids or

people, at

all. It wasn't that she was ignoring them....they did not exist for

her. This is

not in line with Apraxia I don't believe.

She was never a child that any adult could look at and see Autism as

she was

young and there is a wide variance in children at that age. But

children knew,

they always know. I remember taking her to Mc's or the park to

play on

more than one occasion and all the children would shun her.

Not fitting in well with peers is a BIG ASD sign. Also happy to

report this

is no longer true. Both K, first and second grade teachers report she

was/is

very popular with other kids and there have been times they have

fought over the

right to sit next to her, play with her on the playground. She gets

invited to

all the birthday parties and is eager to interact with any kid and

they with

her.====>

Tanner as a young child didn't do well in crowds but did well with

one on one play dates. Now he's social butterfly. It's hard to say

when they are little as you have to know what's due to frustration

and what's due to impairment. As the parent it probably is hard to

be objective however as a parent that is also a professional you get

to follow your gut as well as your brain!

===>Yes, very good article, track the increase in speech based

disorders and

the increase in vaccinations, I believe they are related as are the

ASD rates.

The second wave of ASD kids were born in 1988-89.

I spoke to a speech teacher the other day who reported that they had

downgraded the language requirements for TYPICAL 3 year olds as

hardly any met

the criteria anymore, deplorable.

Something horrible is happening to our children.===>

Very sad I agree -did you see this article I wrote a few years ago?

http://www.cherab.org/news/Save.html

Thanks again for sharing !