Vit K

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/31/99 11:33:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jenick@... writes:

<< VitK is made in the intestine. A newborns intestine is sterile. I believe

BM is the perfect food and the nutrients are utilised better however babies

have died from internal bleeds and their levels of VIT K are low. Parents

need to make na informed choice and if the birth was instrumental, or there

was a cephal haematoma or sever bruising i.e face presentation, I would

rethink Vit K. Interesting topic >>

I agree, in artificial, interfered with, or drugged deliveries vit K may be

necessary. Also, if a natural birth was traumatic resulting in hematoma's

etc. etc. On the other hand, however, all babies are born with low Vit K. Do

you think that God made a mistake? IMNSHO it is like circumcision, the

skin is there for a reason. Just because we do not fully comprehend a

phenomenon does not mean that it is healthy to alter it. True, some babies

have hemorrhaged to death, but thousands of babies die every year because of

Doctors and hospitals interfering with the birth process. Also, the

hemorrhages were probably due to maternal malnourishment, since the majority

of them occur well after delivery. I am sure that you are aware of the fact

that Vit K injections are linked to hyperbilirubinemia, leukemia, among

others. In any case the parent has to educate oneself and see what is best

for their family. If a woman is going to choose drugs, etc..then there is a

huge chance that her baby will be severely traumatized and therefore need more

interferences like Vit K. Unfortunately, this can lead to a host of yet more

problems and harmful medical practices. Well, if I have another child I will

have the Vit K on hand...but I most likely will not use it. , what ever

happened to the drops? Did you look into them?

~~G

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 99-04-01 10:35:46 EST, you write:

> << VitK is made in the intestine. A newborns intestine is sterile.

A newborn, if born vaginally, is inoculated with bacteria living in the birth

canal. Also our daughter was born naturally but pretty bruised up. However,

we still went without the vitamin K shot and she is just fine.

Cory

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/1/99 10:18:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, Cmermer@...

writes:

<< A newborn, if born vaginally, is inoculated with bacteria living in the

birth

canal. >>

Hey that makes perfect sense and I never thought of it! I knew that it did

not make natural-common sense to believe that a baby would be born with a

need besides its mother and her breasts ) Thanks for the info. Has anyone

ever had the newborn's blood tested for the presence of vit K? Just

curious...

~~G

[Guest guest]

Marci,

I am Rh negative and with my first daughter they gave me one at 20 weeks

and they forgot when I had my daughter to give me another one as she had

her dads + blood.It did not effect my next child or me!

I just got it because if her blood got in mine I did not want to

take chance of not taking care of her and believe me she needed

me!!Who knows if there are side effects,I cannot answer that!

Sincerely,

a Mom of Brittany

[Guest guest]

six4thee@... wrote:

> I'm due in 3 weeks and I need some information why I shouldn't let them give

> my baby a vit k shot so I can convince my husband I'm not just paranoid.

> What do ladies do if you have RH neg blood and your husband is RH pos? Do you

> get the Rogam shot or not?

>

> Marci

National standard mandates newborn vitamin K injection

Ignorance becomes tacit consent for the questionable neonatal procedure

by Don Harkins

In cooperation with a " national standard, " most, if not all states have

mandated that U.S. hospitals routinely administer to all newborns a

synthetic, fat-soluble vitamin K injection (generic name phytonadione) that

exceeds an infant's recommended daily dietary intake of the vitamin by 100

times.

Peer reviewed journals have linked large doses of vitamin K to childhood

cancers and leukemia. Animal studies have linked large doses of vitamin K

to a variety of conditions that include anemia, liver damage, kidney damage

and death.

" Little is known about the metabolic fate of vitamin K. Almost no

unmetabolized vitamin K appears in bile or urine, " states both the 1988 and

1998 Physician's Desk Reference (PDR).

" This is especially important due to the fact that it is a fat-soluble

vitamin and therefore can accumulate in the body, " wrote Vitamin K

Resources (VKR) in the extremely well-documented and footnoted 1999

article, Intramuscular Vitamin K Injection: Is K OK?

In the 1988 PDR Merck's literature states that, " A single intramuscular

dose of AquaMEPHYTON (Merck brand vitamin K injection) 0.5 to 1 mg within

one hour of birth is recommended. "

Merck's 1998 PDR entry for AquaMEPHYTON has removed adverse reaction

liability from the pharmaceutical giant by stating, " The American Academy

of Pediatrics (AAP) recommends that Vitamin K1 be given to the newborn. "

Vitamin K injections are ostensibly administered to newborns to prevent

vitamin K deficiency bleeding (such as hemophilia) that may occur in

approximately 1 in 10,000 live births. " This figure would probably be much

lower if high risk newborns were excluded [from this figure], " wrote VKR.

Parents who wish to refuse the shot must do so in writing prior to the

birth of their baby. Parental ignorance of the state-mandated injection is

considered by hospitals as tacit consent authorizing them to administer the

potentially damaging synthetic vitamin dose to newborns.

Five post partem nurses from hospitals in Idaho, Washington and Oregon

stated that they " routinely administer vitamin K injections to newborns, "

as if all of them were reading from the same script. According to a

seasoned Sacred Heart Medical Center (Spokane, WA), Birthplace nurse named

Terri, " Routine vitamin K injections are in cooperation with the federal

standard. "

She also said that Washington hospitals are mandated by state code to

provide the injections to all newborns. Terri acknowledged that parents who

wish to refuse the shot must present the refusal to the hospital in writing

before the baby is born.

Scientists question

intelligence of universal

IM vitamin K injections

Dr. Louise was quoted in the British Medical Journal in 1998 as

stating, " It is not possible, on the basis of currently published evidence,

to refute the suggestion that neonatal IM vitamin K administration

increases the risk of early childhood leukemia. "

The British Journal of Cancer published " Factors associated with childhood

cancer " by J. Golding, et al, in 1990. The report indicated that

universally administered IM vitamin K injections significantly increase our

children's chances of developing childhood cancer.

A follow-up study published two years later in the British Medical Journal

reinforced the findings of the previous study. The authors' comments, in

keeping with scientific style, are conservatively stated, but parents who

are concerned about the health of their babies will read " danger " between

the following lines: " The only two studies so far to have examined the

relation between childhood cancer and intramuscular vitamin K have shown

similar results and the relation is biologically plausible. The

prophylactic benefits against haemorrhagic disease are unlikely to exceed

the potential adverse effects from intramuscular vitamin K... "

Both studies recommend that policies should be adopted to administer IM

vitamin K injections only to high risk babies. Babies who have been

identified as being at risk for vitamin K deficiency include those born to

mothers who took drugs or antibiotics during pregnancy, premature babies

and babies who are born cesarean. Mothers who had maternity diets low in

high vitamin K foods or had diets that were low in fat have also been

identified as being more likely to bear vitamin K deficient babies.

Naturopathic physicians and others who successfully adhere to a more

natural approach to healthcare advocate that high-risk mothers should

increase the amount of vitamin K available to the fetus during pregnancy by

eating adequate amounts of green leafy vegetables. It is also recommended

that mothers continue to eat vitamin K rich foods after giving birth so

that their infants will receive the natural form of the vital vitamin

through their breast milk.

As early as April 17, 1977, an article in one of the world's most esteemed

medical journals, the Lancet, discredited the policy of routine vitamin K

injections. " We conclude that healthy babies, contrary to current beliefs,

are not likely to have a vitamin K deficiency....the administration of

vitamin K is not supported by our findings... " Van Doorm, et al stated in

the Lancet article.

VKR cited 21 peer-reviewed reports that had been published in prominent

medical journals. All of them concur that policies which mandate the

universal injection of newborn babies are not based in sound science.

There has been much peer-reviewed evidence generated which questions the

efficacy of routine vitamin K injections as sound public health policy.

Why, then, since publication of the July, 1987 article in Pediatrics

" Health codes for newborns " when it was stated that only five states

required hospitals to administer neonatal vitamin K injections, are they

now mandated by most, if not all states?

Commonsensically, VKR poses the question, " ...how could God (or nature)

have erred so badly as to give all newborn babies only an infinitesimal

fraction of their required vitamin K? Surely the human race could not have

survived to this point if all newborns were born with this deficiency and

none being administered at birth until very recently. "

Although there seems to be no evidence to support universal IM vitamin K

injections among the newborn from a public health standpoint, the medical

establishment, as informed by the Food and Drug Administration, the AAP and

as supplied by the pharmaceutical companies such as Merck, Roche

Laboratories and Abbott Laboratories, continues to endorse state mandated,

routine IM vitamin K injections.

Eye of newt, spleen of bat?

The body most readily utilizes vitamins and minerals that are found in

plants. The body less readily utilizes synthetic vitamins and minerals.

The vitamin K administered by hospitals to newborns is the synthetic

phytonadione. The natural forms of vitamin K that are found in many foods,

particularly in vegetables such as collard greens, spinach, broccoli,

asparagus, brussels sprouts and salad greens, are called phylloquinone or

menaquinone. Certain bacteria in the intestinal tract also produce

menaquinones.

The vitamin K injections administered by hospitals and manufactured by

Merck and Roche and Abbott are not only synthetic but, according to the

packet inserts and the PDR, contain benzyl alcohol as a preservative.

The 1989 PDR states that, " there is no evidence to suggest that the small

amount of benzyl alcohol contained in AquaMEPHYTON (Merck's vitamin K

injection product), when used as recommended, is associated with toxicity. "

Interestingly, in November, 1988, the French medical journal Dev Pharmacol

Ther published a paper regarding benzyl alcohol metabolism and elimination

in babies. The report stated that " ...we cannot directly answer the issue

of safety of 'low doses' of benzyl alcohol as found in some medications

administered to neonates. This study confirms the immaturity of the benzoic

acid detoxification process in premature newborns. "

The 1998 PDR still states, contrary to the published findings of French

scientists in 1988, " there is no evidence to suggest that... "

There has been little reason to study the toxicological effects of benzyl

alcohol over the last decade since state legislators have provided

synthetic vitamin K manufacturers with the guaranteed marketplace of nearly

every child born in a U.S. hospital.

Vitamin K injections manufactured as recently as 1995 contain hydrochloric

acid " for pH adjustment. "

Roche's vitamin K product KONAKION contains ingredients such as phenol

(carbolic acid-a poisonous substance distilled from coal tar), propylene

glycol (derived from petroleum and used as an antifreeze and in hydraulic

brake fluid) and acetic acid (an astringent antimicrobial agent that may

drastically reduce the amount of natural vitamin K that would have

otherwise been produced in the digestive tract).

As reported in the PDR and as published in the IM vitamin K packet inserts

for Merck, Roche and Abbott, " Studies of carcinogenicity, mutagenesis or

impairment of fertility have not been conducted with Vitamin K1 Injection

(Phytonadione Injection, USP). "

The purpose of this article is to alert expectant parents that their

ignorance of federally-suggested, state mandated hospital policy is enough

assent to authorize health care professionals to administer what may be a

lethal or damaging overdose of a synthetic substance that comes with the

following warning from the manufacturers: " Severe reactions, including

fatalities, have occurred during and immediately after INTRAVENOUS

injection of phytonadione even when precautions have been taken to dilute

the vitamin and avoid rapid infusion... "

Please pass the preceeding information onto anybody you know who is

expecting a baby. Afterall, we have the right to know what substances are

being injected into our babies within the first hour of their lives. If we

feel that a substance may be injurious to our baby, we have the right to

refuse it.

Don Harkins is the editor of The Idaho Observer

www.proliberty.com/observer

--------------------------------

Vit K

http://www.fensende.com/Users/swnymph/Midwife/vitktop.html#Controversy

British Medical Journal volume 305 August 8, 1992 and BMJ volume 310 March

11,1995 are studies that connect vitamin K to childhood cancers such as

leukemia.

" Many doctors routinely give vitamin K to newborn babies because they have

been taught that infants are born with a deficiency of this vitamin, which

influences how rapidly the baby's blood will clot. That's nonsense, unless

the mother is severely malnourished; but most doctors do it anyway.

Administration of vitamin K to the newborn may produce jauncice, which

prompts the

pediatrician to treat it with bilirubin lights (phototherapy). These lights

expose the baby to a dozen documented hazards that may requeire still

further treatement and possibly affect him for the rest of his life. "

http://www.birthpsychology.com/messages/vitamink/vitamink.html

Vitamin K injections:

This practice was instituted in hospitals during the era of routine mother-

infant separation. According to , " although controversial in other

coutries, " injection of the newborn with Vitamin K right after birth is

almost universal in the United States (Cunningham et al. 1989:611). The

rationale for this is that newborns are born with a " deficiency " of Vitamin

K, which they also do not receive in breast milk. This leads to a decrease

in

Vitamin K-dependent blood coagulation factors, making newborns more

susceptible to hemorrhage in the first several days of life until Vitamin K

is manufactured in their systems (Cunningham et al. 1989:611). The risk is

small--about 1 in 200--but real.

Physiological Effects

Injection of newborns with Vitamin K in large doses has been implicated as a

cause of neonatal jaundice ( 1955; Cunningham et al. 1989:611). A

small dose of 1 mg seems to have no ill effects on the baby beyond the pain

caused by the injection itself. If newborns are allowed to suckle soon after

birth, the injection of Vitamin K is less necessary, since the colostrum

that

comes immediately from the mother's breast before her milk lets down is

usually rich in Vitamin K (Trevathan 1987:213). In about 1 out of 200

babies,

even in those that area breastfed, however, there is significant danger of

hemorrhage. For this reason, even midwives attending home births sometimes

give injections of Vitamin K. One Anycity midwife, for example, feels that

the risk of cerebral hemorrhage is heightened in very fast or very long

labors, when the baby has a strongly cone-shaped head, or when the baby

demonstrates significant heart-rate decelerations during late labor. Because

she believes in their value, she gives Vitamin K injections to around 40% of

the babies she catches. But she feels strongly that breastfed babies born

with " easy births " do not need Vitamin K, and that it should not be

administered routinely to all babies.

Ritual Purposes

If the pain that the individual newborn feels from a shot with a needle were

up for consideration under the technocratic model, then the decision as to

whether or not to inflict that pain on a newborn would be made on an

individual basis according to specific need. But instead, the medical

response to the danger of hemorrhage, as to the danger of blindness from VD,

has been to standardize the Vitamin K injection for all newborns. In The

Technological Society, Jacques Ellul has written:

Standardization means resolving in advance all the problems that might

possibly impede the functioning of an organization. It is not a matter of

leaving it to inspiration, ingenuity, or even intelligence to find a

solution

[to a problem]; it is rather in some way to anticipate both the difficulty

and the resolution. From then on, standardization creates impersonality, in

the sense that the organization relies more on methods and techniques than

on

individuals. We thus have all the marks of a technique. Organization is thus

a technique. -Ellul 1965:11-12

Symbolically speaking, the standardization of the Vitamin K injection and

indeed all the routine procedures performed on the newborn baby reinforce

the

messages to both baby and mother that nature is inadequate, that they are

now

dependent on organizations--that is, on techniques--for their lives and

health. This message seems a fair and accurate reflection of the realities

of

technocratic life. In effect, these postpartum procedures form the modern

structural equivalent of baptism: they symbolically enculturate the newborn,

removing her step-by-step from the natural realm through restructuring her

very physiology in accordance with technocratic standardization.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/8/00 11:50:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

1levy1@... writes:

<< If we don't give vit k would it be better to cut right

away or better to wait? Thanks again. It's so great to have a resource

of open-minded people with such a broad range of knowledge and

experience. >>

I heard that is is best to wait so that the baby can get all the blood

possible from the placenta.Some wait an half to 2 hours after the placenta is

delivered before they cut the cord.I was all nervous and imo cut to soon

after the P was delivered.Next birth I will maybe wait an hour.

sara

[Guest guest]

Not sure if you would consider this option, but we did oral Vitamin K instead of a jab.

Mel

I'm considering not doing the vit k shot this time (the first time we were coerced into doing it, yes, by a midwife), and this time I'm doing more homework and have already told our (new) midwife that we want to discuss it before the birth. I'm also considering letting the cord stop pulsing before cutting. Considering these two factors, does any one have any specific advice for me? I don't know exactly what I'm looking for, just your thoughts on waiting to cut the cord, jaundice, not giving baby vit K, etc. If we don't give vit k would it be better to cut right away or better to wait? Thanks again. It's so great to have a resource of open-minded people with such a broad range of knowledge and experience.

[Guest guest]

My midwives suggested we wait 2 hours to cut the cord, so we did. They wrapped the placenta up in a big Chux pad and as I laid in bed nursing after the birth, it just sat there. No biggie.

Mel

I heard that is is best to wait so that the baby can get all the blood possible from the placenta.Some wait an half to 2 hours after the placenta is delivered before they cut the cord.I was all nervous and imo cut to soon after the P was delivered.Next birth I will maybe wait an hour.sara

[Guest guest]

I just heard recently, for the first time, that not only does the blood flow

from the placenta but that waste is also carried out of the baby with

prolonged cord cutting. I don't know anything about this but would love to

hear from anyone who has knowledge of it.

As for Vit K, I had 3 homebirths....it was never an issue for my first, was

told by my second midwife that if a baby were to need vit K, there would be

other visible signs that would indicate this need and that there are only a

small number who do need it. With my third, we did the first PKU test out of

the 3 kids but did not get the shot. My midwife at that birth explained the

whole test a bit more clearly and felt that it had a number of benifits. She

was very gentle about the heel prick, doing it while the mother nurses,

standing up with the baby's leg hanging down so gravity works on the blood

flow, and lots of lovin's afterward. She even explained to our little one

what she was doing and asked her first. I don't know if that did any good

but she showed a great deal of respect to our baby. I still have mixed

feelings about the PKU and the vit K shot (most likely because everything

turned out o.k. with the first two, I trusted in it not being necessary) but

I know that if we had to have the test done, it was done in the most gentle

way possible. And she was able to administer the test at home so we didn't

have to go to the doctor's or the hospital. We got the test paper (sealed in

an envelope with the mailing envelope) from either the doctor's office or

the health department, I can't remember. Our midwife did the test, filling

in the circles with the blood form the prick, we filled out the short form

and mailed it off. The results though, will not be mailed to the parents,

but a health practitioner and the parents are only contacted if there is a

problem. It was rather simple and I would suggest to anyone considering

having the test done, to look into this option. (Of course I am shaking now

as I remember the look my little girl gave me when she got pricked).

Katrina

>From: nnu29@...

>Reply-Vaccinationsegroups

>Vaccinationsegroups

>Subject: Re: Vit K

>Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 17:53:10 EDT

>

>In a message dated 8/8/00 11:50:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

>1levy1@... writes:

>

><< If we don't give vit k would it be better to cut right

> away or better to wait? Thanks again. It's so great to have a resource

> of open-minded people with such a broad range of knowledge and

> experience. >>

>I heard that is is best to wait so that the baby can get all the blood

>possible from the placenta.Some wait an half to 2 hours after the placenta

>is

>delivered before they cut the cord.I was all nervous and imo cut to soon

>after the P was delivered.Next birth I will maybe wait an hour.

>sara

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[Guest guest]

>>As for Vit K, I had 3 homebirths....it was never an issue for my first, was >>told by my second midwife that if a baby were to need vit K, there would be >>other visible signs that would indicate this need and that there are only a >>small number who do need it.

My midwife told me basically the same thing, but when my daughter was born after a very long hard labor, and came out with a huge purple cone on the side of her head from being stuck in the birth canal for a time, she recommended the Vit.K and gave her oral but I don't know what kind of oral it was or anything about it.

>>>My midwife at that birth explained the whole test a bit more clearly and felt that it had a number of benifits. She was very gentle about the heel prick, doing it while the mother nurses, standing up with the baby's leg hanging down so gravity works on the blood flow, and lots of lovin's afterward. She even explained to our little one what she was doing and asked her first. I don't know if that did any good but she showed a great deal of respect to our baby. I still have mixed feelings about the PKU and the vit K shot (most likely because everything turned out o.k. with the first two, I trusted in it not being necessary) but I know that if we had to have the test done, it was done in the most gentle way possible. And she was able to administer the test at home so we didn't have to go to the doctor's or the hospital.

>>>>>

Same here. my midwife did the test at our home, and was very gentle and used a small blade designed for sick or preemie babies that is gentler and less stressful than a regular prick, it creates a nick (a teeny slice) and isn't necessary to "jab". I felt totally comfortable with that decision and am glad we had the PKU test done even though she was fine. She said even at the doctor's office you can demand these other gentler blades, they just cost more than the standard ones.

Mel

[Guest guest]

Congratulations on your grandbaby, Rhoda! Wow 10 1/2 lbs already. Must be

a very big boy!

Kim

>From: " Rhoda " <RHODAF@...>

>Reply-Vaccinationsegroups

><Vaccinationsegroups>

>Subject: Re: Vit K

>Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:21:45 -0400

>

>my dil waited to cut cord. we got the baby home within 16 hours. no one

>noticed the baby was jaundiced. he is better now. put him in the daylight.

>2 weeks old today and moving and lifting head and so alert 10 1/2 lbs. the

>2 1/2 yr old did not come thru as easy a birth, different doctors. this

>doctor is an ob/gyn but a midwife in disguise. the nurse/midwife said he

>delivered baby like a midwife. this was in a hospital in deland. we were

>blessed that is all i can say. rhoda

> Re: Vit K

>

>

> My son had the Vit K shot and we didn't cut the cord until long after

>it stopped pulsing. He was slightly Jaundice as well if that tells you

>anything, I think a " 14 " but I can't remember clearly. We didn't have the

>oral and I couldn't find an alternative. Next time I will skip it all

>together I'm sure. I felt bad after. I had a completely unmedicated, no

>IV or anything birth and then he got a shot of the vit K.

> - Jax, FL

>

> Levy wrote:

>

> I've heard that it's best to wait so the baby gets more blood, but

>I've also heard that by waiting the baby has a higher risk of getting

>jaundice because she/he is getting more blood. Maybe that's the case if

>you give vit K and wait. Any thoughts, anyone?

>

>

> nnu29@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 8/8/00 11:50:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> 1levy1@... writes:

> << If we don't give vit k would it be better to cut right

> away or better to wait? Thanks again. It's so great to have

>a resource

> of open-minded people with such a broad range of knowledge

>and

> experience. >>

> I heard that is is best to wait so that the baby can get all

>the blood

> possible from the placenta.Some wait an half to 2 hours after

>the placenta is

> delivered before they cut the cord.I was all nervous and imo

>cut to soon

> after the P was delivered.Next birth I will maybe wait an

>hour.

> sara

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

I've been thinking about it, although from what I understand you use the

same suspension that would get injected because there is no approved oral

form. But I haven't ruled this option out yet. What were your

experiences with it? Did your baby get jaundice? Was it hard

to get the vit k into the mouth? Thanks for the input.

mel@... wrote:

Not

sure if you would consider this option, but we did oral Vitamin

K instead of a jab.Mel I'm

considering not doing the vit k shot this time (the first time we were

coerced into doing it, yes, by a midwife), and this time I'm doing more

homework and have already told our (new) midwife that we want to discuss

it before the birth. I'm also considering letting the cord

stop pulsing before cutting. Considering these two factors, does

any one have any specific advice for me? I don't know exactly what

I'm looking for, just your thoughts on waiting to cut the cord, jaundice,

not giving baby vit K, etc. If we don't give vit k would it be better

to cut right away or better to wait? Thanks again. It's so

great to have a resource of open-minded people with such a broad range

of knowledge and experience.

[Guest guest]

No jaundice here, not even a little. If I remember correctly, they gave the oral Vit.K about an hour after birth (?), it's sort of a blur in my memory now. It could have been sooner. My baby was crying a lot after birth so it was no trouble to squirt in the VitK and she swallowed just fine.

Mel

I've been thinking about it, although from what I understand you use the same suspension that would get injected because there is no approved oral form. But I haven't ruled this option out yet. What were your experiences with it? Did your baby get jaundice? Was it hard to get the vit k into the mouth? Thanks for the input.

mel@... wrote: Not sure if you would consider this option, but we did oral Vitamin K instead of a jab.Mel I'm considering not doing the vit k shot this time (the first time we were coerced into doing it, yes, by a midwife), and this time I'm doing more homework and have already told our (new) midwife that we want to discuss it before the birth. I'm also considering letting the cord stop pulsing before cutting. Considering these two factors, does any one have any specific advice for me? I don't know exactly what I'm looking for, just your thoughts on waiting to cut the cord, jaundice, not giving baby vit K, etc. If we don't give vit k would it be better to cut right away or better to wait? Thanks again. It's so great to have a resource of open-minded people with such a broad range of knowledge and experience.

[Guest guest]

No shot, just oral. No jaundice.

Mel

Re: Vit KDid your baby have the vit k shot? Jundice? mel@... wrote: My midwives suggested we wait 2 hours to cut the cord, so we did. They wrapped the placenta up in a big Chux pad and as I laid in bed nursing after the birth, it just sat there. No biggie.Mel I heard that is is best to wait so that the baby can get all the blood possible from the placenta.Some wait an half to 2 hours after the placenta is delivered before they cut the cord.I was all nervous and imo cut to soon after the P was delivered.Next birth I will maybe wait an hour. sara

[Guest guest]

We had it done one week after birth. My midwife says she does it about 3-7 days afterwards standard.

Mel

On the topic of PKU testing, I just did research on this in the spring for microbiology. For all of you who plan to have a hospital birth, make sure you get the test done after day 3, since it is pretty much useless before that time (the blood levels of phenylalanine aren't high enough to be detected until then). I spoke with the regional director of the PKU program in my area and she said they do it so early in the hospital basically just to cover their butts. They tell parents to get another test at their doctor's, but they know that most parents don't do it and the the paeds and GPs aren't following up for some reason. That's why midwives do it at home after day three.

mel@... wrote: >>As for Vit K, I had 3 homebirths....it was never an issue for my first, was >>told by my second midwife that if a baby were to need vit K, there would be >>other visible signs that would indicate this need and that there are only a >>small number who do need it. My midwife told me basically the same thing, but when my daughter was born after a very long hard labor, and came out with a huge purple cone on the side of her head from being stuck in the birth canal for a time, she recommended the Vit.K and gave her oral but I don't know what kind of oral it was or anything about it. >>>My midwife at that birth explained the whole test a bit more clearly and felt that it had a number of benifits. She was very gentle about the heel prick, doing it while the mother nurses, standing up with the baby's leg hanging down so gravity works on the blood flow, and lots of lovin's afterward. She even explained to our little one what she was doing and asked her first. I don't know if that did any good but she showed a great deal of respect to our baby. I still have mixed feelings about the PKU and the vit K shot (most likely because everything turned out o.k. with the first two, I trusted in it not being necessary) but I know that if we had to have the test done, it was done in the most gentle way possible. And she was able to administer the test at home so we didn't have to go to the doctor's or the hospital.>>>>> Same here. my midwife did the test at our home, and was very gentle and used a small blade designed for sick or preemie babies that is gentler and less stressful than a regular prick, it creates a nick (a teeny slice) and isn't necessary to "jab". I felt totally comfortable with that decision and am glad we had the PKU test done even though she was fine. She said even at the doctor's office you can demand these other gentler blades, they just cost more than the standard ones. Mel

[Guest guest]

My son had the Vit K shot and we didn't cut the cord until long after it

stopped pulsing. He was slightly Jaundice as well if that tells you

anything, I think a "14" but I can't remember clearly. We didn't

have the oral and I couldn't find an alternative. Next time I will

skip it all together I'm sure. I felt bad after. I had a completely

unmedicated, no IV or anything birth and then he got a shot of the vit

K.

- Jax, FL

Levy wrote:

I've heard that it's best to wait so the baby gets

more blood, but I've also heard that by waiting the baby has a higher risk

of getting jaundice because she/he is getting more blood. Maybe that's

the case if you give vit K and wait. Any thoughts, anyone?

nnu29@... wrote:

In a message dated 8/8/00 11:50:46 AM Pacific Daylight

Time,

1levy1@... writes:

<< If we don't give vit k would it be better to cut right

away or better to wait? Thanks again. It's so great

to have a resource

of open-minded people with such a broad range of knowledge and

experience. >>

I heard that is is best to wait so that the baby can get all the blood

possible from the placenta.Some wait an half to 2 hours after the placenta

is

delivered before they cut the cord.I was all nervous and imo cut to

soon

after the P was delivered.Next birth I will maybe wait an hour.

sara

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1/7302/10/_/489317/_/965771594/

--------------------------------------------------------------------|e>-

[Guest guest]

I've heard that it's best to wait so the baby gets more blood, but I've

also heard that by waiting the baby has a higher risk of getting jaundice

because she/he is getting more blood. Maybe that's the case if you

give vit K and wait. Any thoughts, anyone?

nnu29@... wrote:

In a message dated 8/8/00 11:50:46 AM Pacific Daylight

Time,

1levy1@... writes:

<< If we don't give vit k would it be better to cut right

away or better to wait? Thanks again. It's so great

to have a resource

of open-minded people with such a broad range of knowledge and

experience. >>

I heard that is is best to wait so that the baby can get all the blood

possible from the placenta.Some wait an half to 2 hours after the placenta

is

delivered before they cut the cord.I was all nervous and imo cut to

soon

after the P was delivered.Next birth I will maybe wait an hour.

sara

--------------------------------------------------------------------<e|-

Help influence the future of medicine and healthcare by participating

in medical research surveys. Our honorariums range from $25 to

$200 per survey.

1/7302/10/_/489317/_/965771594/

--------------------------------------------------------------------|e>-

[Guest guest]

Did your baby have the vit k shot? Jundice?

mel@... wrote:

My

midwives suggested we wait 2 hours to cut the cord, so we did. They

wrapped the placenta up in a big Chux pad and as I laid in bed nursing

after the birth, it just sat there. No biggie.Mel

I heard that is is best to wait so that the baby can get all the

blood

possible from the placenta.Some wait an half to 2 hours after the

placenta is

delivered before they cut the cord.I was all nervous and imo cut

to soon

after the P was delivered.Next birth I will maybe wait an hour.

sara

[Guest guest]

On the topic of PKU testing, I just did research on this in the spring

for microbiology. For all of you who plan to have a hospital birth,

make sure you get the test done after day 3, since it is pretty much useless

before that time (the blood levels of phenylalanine aren't high enough

to be detected until then). I spoke with the regional director of

the PKU program in my area and she said they do it so early in the hospital

basically just to cover their butts. They tell parents to get another

test at their doctor's, but they know that most parents don't do it and

the the paeds and GPs aren't following up for some reason. That's

why midwives do it at home after day three.

mel@... wrote:

>>As

for Vit K, I had 3 homebirths....it was never an issue for my first, was

>>told by my second midwife that if a baby were to need vit K,

there would be

>>other visible signs that would indicate this need and that there

are only a

>>small number who do need it. My midwife told me

basically the same thing, but when my daughter was born after a very long

hard labor, and came out with a huge purple cone on the side of her head

from being stuck in the birth canal for a time, she recommended the Vit.K

and gave her oral but I don't know what kind of oral it was or anything

about it. >>>My midwife at that birth explained

the

whole test a bit more clearly and felt that it had a number of

benifits. She

was very gentle about the heel prick, doing it while the mother

nurses,

standing up with the baby's leg hanging down so gravity works on

the blood

flow, and lots of lovin's afterward. She even explained to our

little one

what she was doing and asked her first. I don't know if that did

any good

but she showed a great deal of respect to our baby. I still have

mixed

feelings about the PKU and the vit K shot (most likely because

everything

turned out o.k. with the first two, I trusted in it not being necessary)

but

I know that if we had to have the test done, it was done in the

most gentle

way possible. And she was able to administer the test at home so

we didn't

have to go to the doctor's or the hospital.>>>>> Same

here. my midwife did the test at our home, and was very gentle and

used a small blade designed for sick or preemie babies that is gentler

and less stressful than a regular prick, it creates a nick (a teeny slice)

and isn't necessary to "jab". I felt totally comfortable with that

decision and am glad we had the PKU test done even though she was fine.

She said even at the doctor's office you can demand these other gentler

blades, they just cost more than the standard ones. Mel

[Guest guest]

my dil waited to cut cord. we got the baby home within 16 hours. no one noticed the baby was jaundiced. he is better now. put him in the daylight. 2 weeks old today and moving and lifting head and so alert 10 1/2 lbs. the 2 1/2 yr old did not come thru as easy a birth, different doctors. this doctor is an ob/gyn but a midwife in disguise. the nurse/midwife said he delivered baby like a midwife. this was in a hospital in deland. we were blessed that is all i can say. rhoda

Re: Vit KMy son had the Vit K shot and we didn't cut the cord until long after it stopped pulsing. He was slightly Jaundice as well if that tells you anything, I think a " 14 " but I can't remember clearly. We didn't have the oral and I couldn't find an alternative. Next time I will skip it all together I'm sure. I felt bad after. I had a completely unmedicated, no IV or anything birth and then he got a shot of the vit K. - Jax, FL Levy wrote: I've heard that it's best to wait so the baby gets more blood, but I've also heard that by waiting the baby has a higher risk of getting jaundice because she/he is getting more blood. Maybe that's the case if you give vit K and wait. Any thoughts, anyone? nnu29@... wrote: In a message dated 8/8/00 11:50:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 1levy1@... writes: << If we don't give vit k would it be better to cut right away or better to wait? Thanks again. It's so great to have a resource of open-minded people with such a broad range of knowledge and experience. >> I heard that is is best to wait so that the baby can get all the blood possible from the placenta.Some wait an half to 2 hours after the placenta is delivered before they cut the cord.I was all nervous and imo cut to soon after the P was delivered.Next birth I will maybe wait an hour. sara --------------------------------------------------------------------<e|- Help influence the future of medicine and healthcare by participating in medical research surveys. Our honorariums range from $25 to $200 per survey. 1/7302/10/_/489317/_/965771594/ --------------------------------------------------------------------|e>-

[Guest guest]

Am I mistaken in thinking that when I was a kid (I'm thirty-two) my mom used to say to me, "Oh, lots of babies are a little jaundiced for a couple days after they're born. It's no big deal, though if it goes on longer there could Be something wrong." And if I'm remembering that correctly, what changed to make this Vitamin K/PKU issue a big deal? Or is that the something else that could Be wrong?

Be...

Peace......................... :->

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know where you could order oral Vit k from?

Dorinda

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Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure but in my childbirth class last year, one of our instructors said you can have your doctor order it from the pharmacy, they make it up special and that it isn't something they carry on hand. She said anyone can request the oral VitK but most don't know about it, and that even some doctors might not know about it but you can insist.

Mel

-----Original Message----- Does anyone know where you could order oral Vit k from?Dorinda________________________________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Kathy, this is brilliant. While I'm in the UK, lots of mums are pressurised

into permitting the Vit K injection - we're told no point in oral route

because baby may vomit it up then it's no good - so can I please cross-post

this to a couple of UK lists that I'm on?

TIA,

Love, light and peace,

Sue

" Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. " - Chinese Proverb

> Vit K

>

>

> Sorry this is late. I've been at a conference and just getting around to

> reading mail.

>

> Here is my informed consent/refusal form. More on what you can do about

> fighting hospital policy at the bottom.

> Kathy

> *******************

<snipped>

[Guest guest]

I thnk Kathy is on digest and I think that it is fine with her to post

this. Why don't you email her privately

Sheri

At 05:09 PM 05/06/2002 +0100, you wrote:

>Kathy, this is brilliant. While I'm in the UK, lots of mums are pressurised

>into permitting the Vit K injection - we're told no point in oral route

>because baby may vomit it up then it's no good - so can I please cross-post

>this to a couple of UK lists that I'm on?

>

>TIA,

>

>Love, light and peace,

>

>Sue

>

> " Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. " - Chinese Proverb

>

> > -----Original Message-----

>> From: Kathy Rateliff [mailto:rateliff@...]

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