Re: does anyone have any suggestions on where to find?

[Guest guest]

I didn't hear why Hammer would talk about this chair so can't comment on

that. While everything has it's place the Rifton Chair also is in this group

under " proceed with caution " if it's not being used for it's created use to

support a child who can't sit. Some are actually using this chair to force the

child to stay in therapy...and Tricia's child was put in this chair to punish

him. So instead of me answering I have a wealth of emails from Tricia who is

one of the members that used to be active while her child was young -but he's

now older and doing great. And PS -did WAY better once she got through the

nightmare story below of the Rifton Chair.

Also may want to read this before you proceed as well

http://dpi.wi.gov/sped/complaints/com07075-att.html

RE: [ ] Rifton chair -- long

My heart sank when I read this. Please don't take offense but I am the one

who is now dealing the repercussions of my son being put in a similar chair

with out my knowledge. I am a believer that these sorts of chairs should be

on rare occasion unless the child truly has problems with trunk strength or

something like that.

The use of these chairs can be abused ***so*** easily. You never think it

will happen to your child but it easily can. Trust me! You could sue them

if they have been using it with out your consent. It is the law that they

need consent. We are going through this exact thing with my son's school

right now.

I think the use of this sort of chair to get a child to sit still is a cop

out. If the child needs to move, they need to find strategies other than

just strapping him in to keep him still. This is the easiest strategy for

the teachers so of course they will recommend it. If your child's body

truly needs movement then strapping him in isn't the answer. Our private

SLP would sit my son on a bouncing ball during therapy. She would include

movement into his routine. It worked well but I know she had to work HARD

in his sessions. Hence I know that it is really easy for me to say that

your son's therapists should be using all these more innovative ways to deal

with your son's need for movement but I know that school therapy and

teaching, at least in my experience often doesn't meet the needs of the

child. The therapists/teachers are just so over loaded, burnt out, and

frustrated with having to report to school management and to parents. They

don't have the energy to deal with children (like ours) effectively.

Go with your gut on this one. our experience was a negative one. If you

agree to the chair, the school can take liberty in using it for whatever.

They can learn to rely on it too heavily instead of teaching your son

effective coping strategies. Obviously I feel pretty strongly about this

but I know that nothing is cut and dried and holding the schools accountable

while at the same time maintaining a rapport so that you can work together

is a fine line to dance.

Please read this article about a restraint used by the school with out the

parents authorization.

http://www.wrightslaw.com/news/1999/news_WV_Jury_Verdict_99_0705.html

Even if the you decide to let them use the chair, it can be very unsafe. A

professional needs to be trained to use it the right way or else the child's

safety can be compromised. There are children that die or are severely hurt

from being improperly put into those chairs. Especially for a child who is

communication impaired. If the chair was hurting him, if he needed to get

out immediately for whatever reason, it might be hard for him to communicate

this. Especially if your son is like mine in that sometimes he communicates

a lot better when he is moving.

Please feel free to email me privately on this if you wish. Our family (and

5 year old son) have been living a nightmare these past few weeks with this

whole chair thing.

Tricia Morin

North Carolina

>> Hi all,

Well today I went to visit my 4.5 yo son at school. As I'm

there the PT comes in with this chair, starts adjusting it and calls

for . He's been very antsy lately, more so than usual and is

constantly on the go. He's unable to sit for long periods of time

and focus on the activity at hand. Especially during speech.

Apparently they intend to use the chair as a way to keep him from

being able to wander about.

I have mixed emotions about this. I'm leery because I've heard many

negative things about the chair. Mostly from it being used for

punitive measures.

My son is very active. Constantly moving from one thing to the

next. He does have difficulty focusing. I asked them about a

weighted vest and they are looking into one of those for him. I

would feel much better if he was using one of those rather than being

set in a chair with a strap across his lap.

I want to know if any of your children have needed something to keep

them still and what your experiences were. Especially if you've had

a positive experience. I don't get the impression that it will be

used as a punitive device. Neither from the teacher nor the PT. I

am concerned that the chair was not discussed with me prior to this.

Last year around this time of year we experienced a terrible behavior

shift in . He became increasingly aggressive. A couple of days

ago he became so angry at me he wrapped his hands in my hair and

tried to pull my hair out. He scared me, because I've never seen

such rage on his face before. Later, he made the sign for sorry on

my chest and wanted to give me lots of hugs. I know he felt bad.

His behavior has been getting troublesome at school, and at home.

Major meltdowns at the drop of a hat too. Teacher and PT think he

may be experiencing reactions to this time of year. Anyone know more

about that?

We watched the video his teacher made of him at school and it was

kinda heartbreaking. There is no doubt he is autistic. Watching him

try to do tasks and seeing how difficult it is for him to understand,

watching his communication, watching him play alongside a fellow

classmate and no interaction between either child even though they

are playing with the same toy at the same time, watching at snack

time and noticing there is no interaction among any of the kids. Not

the usual chattering that 4 and 5 year olds do. Nevertheless it was

a wakeup call and hard to watch.

It was also reassuring to see how well he's picked up PECS. How he's

learned how to effectively communicate with pictures to get his

wants/needs across at school. It gives me hope that he will continue

making progress and learning new skills to keep him growing.

I want to believe that the use of this chair is going to be a

positive influence on . That it will be just enough of a

restraint to help him focus on the task at hand.

How can I ensure that the chair is only being used for this

particular purpose? Do I have them put in writing what their

intentions are for this chair? Will requesting such a document

create strain in a relationship with the school that up to now has

been a wonderful experience? I'm not sure how I'm feeling or what to

thing. I honestly didn't get a bad vibe from the teacher or the PT.

Im reacting more to what I've heard and the idea of restraint in any

form.

I would appreciate any thoughts or advice you could pass my way.

Thanks for plodding through this.

RE: [ ] Rifkin chair

I have been reading these messages on the fly but wanted to mention one

thing. 21 months seems very young to be requiring a child to sit in a chair.

I believe that kids don't have the trunk strength to sit upright in a chair

until much older. I will try to post an article later today to substantiate

this claim. I am on my way out the door.

I am against the use of Rifton or other adaptive chairs for keeping a child'

s attention. I realize that my experience with such a chair is biased as

ours was so negative. I have told my son's story many times on this list so

I won't rehash it. I do believe that there are so many other ways of

keeping a child's attention. My son was the king of inattention during ST

at that age. Our SLP did what she could at the time and I know it must have

been frustrating for her. I guess I would ask who the chair is for..is it

for the convenience of the therapist or the child?

Tricia Morin

North Carolina

Advanced Start Topic

Rifkin Chair/Rifton Chair

Toni, Thanks for your post about the use of such a chair has been beneficial

for your child. I think that in an optimal situation, a chair of sorts

could help/work. Your post made me think about the chair a little more. I

know that some adaptive chairs merely look like high chairs, others can look

like electric chairs. I still am against the use of such a chair but, like

I said, I am very biased on this topic. There is too much area for abuse,

many professionals aren't trained to use such a device and most kids aren't

fitted for the device that they are put in.

When my son was bouncing off the walls and not paying attention, our SLP

would bounce him on a huge therapy ball for a while or use other sensory

experiences to satisfy his needs for prioceptive input (or other sensory

input) and then try to get him to refocus. One technique she used is that

she had my son pull a wagon loaded with books around the clinic prior to

starting his session. She would also have him " help " her move heavy books

off a table and onto the floor. Sensory can play such a huge part in

therapy as we learned with my son. Our SLP actually spoke all over the

state of MO about incorporating the use of sensory integration activities

into speech therapy and how it could augment progress and compliance....gosh

I miss her!

What is the typical attention span of a 21 month old anyway? I would

imagine it would be pretty short. According to

http://www.evans.amedd.army.mil/Peds/PDF/add.pdf

<http://www.evans.amedd.army.mil/Peds/PDF/add.pdf> " A normal attention

span is 3 to 5 minutes per year of a child's age. Therefore, a 2-year-old

should be able to. concentrate on a particular task for at least 6 minutes,

and a child entering kindergarten should be able to ....

I just shutter at the thought of using a Rifton or other sort of chair for

keeping a child still. Make sure the child is fitted for the chair and that

the therapist is trained to use it. There are cases all over our nation

about children who get hurt or even die from such chairs. My son was put in

one and got bruises and underwent psycho-therapy for PTS after being put in

such a chair for " not sitting still during circle time and not completing

fine motor tasks " . When I talked to the Exceptional Children's Assistance

Center in for NC, http://www.ecac-parentcenter.org/ about my son being put

in such a chair, they said using such a chair, especially at the tender age

of 5 years old, was unnecessary.

My best advice is to be present during EVERY session in which this chair

would be used.

The state of NC is currently exploring legislation that would mandate that

teachers be trained and annually certified on the safest forms of restraint,

used only as a last resort. For more info on this bill go to:

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascripts/BillLookUp/BillLookUp.pl?Session=2003 &

BillID=s977

Here are some additional articles:

parent testimonial of after-effects from restraint

http://users.1st.net/cibra/TiedtoaChair.htm

<http://users.1st.net/cibra/TiedtoaChair.htm>

" barred by law "

http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/queens/nyc-

<http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/queens/nyc->

belt1119,0,6398401.story?coll=nyc-manheadlines-queens

restraints used in a certain state

http://www.bgfl.org/uploaded_documents/restrain.pdf

<http://www.bgfl.org/uploaded_documents/restrain.pdf>

Tricia Morin

North Carolina

=====

[Guest guest]

This link is about Tricia's son written by Hoffmann M.A., CCC-

SLP, President of the Missouri Speech Language Hearing Association. Read this

and then read another message below from her about the Rifton chair and you'll

see what I mean as to as Tricia says " Are these people insane? "

http://www.cherab.org/information/silentnomore.html

" Morin Family " <morinfamily4@...>

noodlespookie

Mon Dec 8, 2003 11:19 pm

Re: prayers please for my son

and all.

The good news is that the school admitted that they strapped

to a

chair and put a wooden desk up against it so he couldn't move. (Are

these

people insane?). I was shocked when they admitted it. This is

exactly what

I wanted. Now I have the power. I am not sure what I am going to do

with

the information. I am for sure going to report it which will probably

promote an investigation. However, I don't know if I am going to

seek legal

action b/c that really won't help . I would much rather just

have

the power to call all the shots from here on out. From their

response to me

today, it sounds like they are treating it just like; I call the

shots on

all educational decisions about no matter how much money it

costs

the school. I hope that they deliver on this. Obviously he is never

setting foot back in that old classroom.

I bet heads are rolling at the school right now! It was awesome that

I had

an advocate with me. that was invaluable as she heard all this info,

!

, thank you so much for calling me. I called the ECAC in NC and

they

gave me just the info I needed! this was 15 minutes before I left

for my

IEP, talk about last minute!

Thanks for the prayers, they obviously worked. God carried me

through the

last 24 hours and that is what I asked of him. He literally carried

me!

Tricia

=====

[Guest guest]

Not sure if they carry this exact chair, but if they don't, I'm sure they'd

probably have some kind of similar thing (they have lots of diff. special needs

products): http://www.abilitations.com/

[Guest guest]

-You can order it from the company direct: 800-571-8198

Or Just enter " The Rifton Chair " in Google search field.

[Guest guest]

Here's the link to Rifton Chairs:

http://www.especialneeds.com/search.php?mode=search & page=1

HTH,

Yvette

[ ] does anyone have any suggestions on where to

find?

I was at the Casana workshop in Arlington yesterday and Hammer was

speaking about The Rifton Chair. Does anyone know where to find special needs

products at some kind of warehouse-type site? I will look in the obvious spots

(E-bay and such) but since these items are used by a special population, I

thought there might be a collective site we could search. (If there isn't such a

place, there SHOULD BE!) Thanks!

[Guest guest]

The best that I've seen is called Adaptivemall.com. It is just what you

are describing and is an online mall for every brand, every swing, every

special needs bicycle, therapy balls, toys and Rifton Chairs! google

Adaptivemall and it comes right up! You can even call them and they

will help with fitting by you describing your needs and your child.

>

> I was at the Casana workshop in Arlington yesterday and Hammer

was speaking about The Rifton Chair. Does anyone know where to find

special needs products at some kind of warehouse-type site? I will look

in the obvious spots (E-bay and such) but since these items are used by

a special population, I thought there might be a collective site we

could search. (If there isn't such a place, there SHOULD BE!) Thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

wow - that is very sad. I had not read that when I recommended the

adaptivemall.com. I was also wondering why someone at a workshop like that would

even need to mention that kind of equipment??

>

> I didn't hear why Hammer would talk about this chair so can't comment on

that. While everything has it's place the Rifton Chair also is in this group

under " proceed with caution " if it's not being used for it's created use to

support a child who can't sit. Some are actually using this chair to force the

child to stay in therapy...and Tricia's child was put in this chair to punish

him. So instead of me answering I have a wealth of emails from Tricia who is

one of the members that used to be active while her child was young -but he's

now older and doing great. And PS -did WAY better once she got through the

nightmare story below of the Rifton Chair.

>

> Also may want to read this before you proceed as well

> http://dpi.wi.gov/sped/complaints/com07075-att.html

>

[Guest guest]

Some schools have been know to use the chair to constraint.

We used a trip trap chair instead.

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which

it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged

material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking

of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other

than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please

contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.

Sharon Lang

> From: Maureen <mosense@...>

> Subject: [ ] Re: does anyone have any suggestions on where

to find?

>

> Date: Sunday, April 19, 2009, 9:01 AM

>

>

>

>

>

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>

>

> wow - that is very sad. I had not read that

> when I recommended the adaptivemall. com. I was also

> wondering why someone at a workshop like that would even

> need to mention that kind of equipment??

>

>

>

>

>

> >

>

> > I didn't hear why Hammer would talk about

> this chair so can't comment on that. While everything

> has it's place the Rifton Chair also is in this group

> under " proceed with caution " if it's not being

> used for it's created use to support a child who

> can't sit. Some are actually using this chair to force

> the child to stay in therapy...and Tricia's child was

> put in this chair to punish him. So instead of me answering

> I have a wealth of emails from Tricia who is one of the

> members that used to be active while her child was young

> -but he's now older and doing great. And PS -did WAY

> better once she got through the nightmare story below of the

> Rifton Chair.

>

> >

>

> > Also may want to read this before you proceed as well

>

> > http://dpi.wi.

> gov/sped/ complaints/ com07075- att.html

>

> >

>

>

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[Guest guest]

I did not know that either.

It also makes me sit and think about when the OT put my son in " time out " (not

in same chair, but different chair) because he was not holding his arms out like

" superman " while on the bolster swing (way back when she was doing that with

him). While she would also tell me that nothing was off limits to my son in the

room, she would scold him and put him in time out again if he was plying wth

something too long or not long enough.

I am just to the point that I trust no one with my own children.

Now, I am wondering if this chair was used to restrain my son at Pre-K?? I know

they did other bad things to him and reading that story just made me more.

Sorry that I gave a number to order the chair, but I hope the intended user was

not going to use it in that way.

> >

> > I didn't hear why Hammer would talk about this chair so can't comment

on that. While everything has it's place the Rifton Chair also is in this group

under " proceed with caution " if it's not being used for it's created use to

support a child who can't sit. Some are actually using this chair to force the

child to stay in therapy...and Tricia's child was put in this chair to punish

him. So instead of me answering I have a wealth of emails from Tricia who is

one of the members that used to be active while her child was young -but he's

now older and doing great. And PS -did WAY better once she got through the

nightmare story below of the Rifton Chair.

> >

> > Also may want to read this before you proceed as well

> > http://dpi.wi.gov/sped/complaints/com07075-att.html

> >

>

[Guest guest]

These chairs and ones similar to them are supposed to be used for kids with

physical difficulties, not for restraint. I can't believe that schools are

using them for that purpose, but I am learning that more stuff goes on than I

think. I think using the chair as a restraining device would be considered

" aversive " which is a big word going around schools right now. There is

legislation that specifically sates that aversive techniques can not be used on

children. Some things they consider " aversive " are not that terrible, but

restraint is a big no-no. It is only supposed to be used as a last resort when

the child is a danger to themselves or others. I would not want to strap a

child in a chair " to help them focus " . That's not what they were made for.

Think how frustrating it would be to be strapped in a chair when your body is

telling you to move. That is bad. The child will not focus more being strapped

in, they might even focus less. However, a nice sturdy chair without a strap

might help them sit better and focus better as long as they could get up if they

wanted to. If you look on the website for the rifton chairs, the children

pictured have physical disabilities that prevent them form being able to sit

without support for certain lengths of time. That is the true intent of these

chairs. The chairs are not the problem, it's the people using them incorrectly.

[Guest guest]

Well,

Sue I think you said it when you said the intended user... it is all about the

intension. Anything can be used for good use or bad. A hand can slap a child

or give a hug.

Personally, I don't think your guilt over something that may or may not have

happened is doing you any good. I totally understand it; it is a mom thing,

but now that you know, you can refuse to allow anyone to have one near him.

You are a great mom and a wonderful advocate for Charlie. If you can, try to

move forward. He is doing so great!!!!

Sharon

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which

it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged

material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking

of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other

than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please

contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.

Sharon Lang

> From: <agirlnamedsuess@...>

> Subject: [ ] Re: does anyone have any suggestions on where

to find?

>

> Date: Sunday, April 19, 2009, 4:22 PM

>

>

> I did not know that either.

>

> It also makes me sit and think about when the OT put my son

> in " time out " (not in same chair, but different

> chair) because he was not holding his arms out like

> " superman " while on the bolster swing (way back

> when she was doing that with him). While she would also tell

> me that nothing was off limits to my son in the room, she

> would scold him and put him in time out again if he was

> plying wth something too long or not long enough.

>

> I am just to the point that I trust no one with my own

> children.

>

> Now, I am wondering if this chair was used to restrain my

> son at Pre-K?? I know they did other bad things to him and

> reading that story just made me more.

>

> Sorry that I gave a number to order the chair, but I hope

> the intended user was not going to use it in that way.

>

>

>

> > >

>

> > > I didn't hear why Hammer would talk

> about this chair so can't comment on that. While

> everything has it's place the Rifton Chair also is in

> this group under " proceed with caution " if

> it's not being used for it's created use to support

> a child who can't sit. Some are actually using this

> chair to force the child to stay in therapy...and

> Tricia's child was put in this chair to punish him. So

> instead of me answering I have a wealth of emails from

> Tricia who is one of the members that used to be active

> while her child was young -but he's now older and doing

> great. And PS -did WAY better once she got through the

> nightmare story below of the Rifton Chair.

>

> > >

>

> > > Also may want to read this before you proceed as

> well

>

> > > http://dpi.wi.gov/sped/complaints/com07075-att.html

[Guest guest]

I hope the intended user comes back to explain why this chair was mentioned at a

Casana workshop! They are not cheap chairs either--it seems like something a

school or medicaid would have to pay for for use in the home.

>

>> Sorry that I gave a number to order the chair, but I hope the intended user

was not going to use it in that way.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

While I wasn't the original poster of this question, I was at the apraxia

conference and thought I'd chime in. In his presentation, Dave was not at ALL

advocating the Rifton chairs to be used for restraint-type purposes. IMO, he

simply presented lots of different things that parents could look into if it was

something that might be appropriate for their child and their child's specific

needs. Of course it's not something that every child is going to need, and I

definitely agree that those stories where the chairs were used for the wrong

purposes were absolutely awful. Parents do need to monitor when/how the chair

is being used if their child is, in fact, using one. But I know in my own son's

class, while he doesn't need a chair like this himself, one little girl in his

class does use one at certain times because in addition to speech issues, she

also has physical problems sitting upright...and for her, as is probably the

case for many kids with

certain physical disabilities, the Rifton chair is vital.

I also did a quick search, and FWIW, not all the chairs made by Rifton have

the belt part which is what sounded to be the problematic thing in some of the

stories where the chairs were used improperly for constraint. One model, called

the Compass chair, has no belt (unless it's specifically ordered with one) and

looks like a regular chair except that it's designed to help with support for

children with mild impairments.

Anyway, hope that helps,

B.