Sign Language

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/16/2001 9:52:38 PM Central Daylight Time,

duckiedawn1@... writes:

> . Anyways I hope its ok if I ask this

> question but I am fixin to get sign language started for

> because of failinf hearing and Im putting it in His Iep to get it

> started at school anyways my question is what is the most popular

> sign language out there and which one would be the best one to start

> off on. Thanks for any answers you can give.

> Dawn mom to

>

>

>

Hi Dawn,

We have always used a mixture of SEE & ASL. At this time we will probably

start moving toward ASL. The SEE was because that is what her ST learned in

college and the ASL is what the TDHI uses. BAsically what they did was

picked the sign that was easiest for to form, if you get what I mean.

She also had daily ST for 30min. and her aides and teachers were/are supposed

to learn at least the signs she uses. This will work for a few years and

then in our case seems to no longer be helping to progress. Go for an

aide trained in sign if you can get one because while our approach did work I

think having someone who is trained could make a much bigger impact on the

child.

Right now I'm trying to convice the hubby to let go to the Minn. Academy

for the Deaf for a couple of years....as a day student since he is very very

uncomforable with the thought of having her gone all week (me to). LOL He

is wondering how she'll ever learn to talk if she's with all those kids who

don't. (some do and some don't...depends on the families wishes) Or it could

be he is being lazy and doesn't want to have to actually learn more then he

already knows? hehe Well I'm looking at an almost 12 yo who has a hard time

understanding spoken language probably because of her hearing loss. so

while not deaf she does have the same type of challenges (understanding

what's wanted and getting her point across) I feel it's time to use a more

immersion approach, her sisters agree we just have to convince Daddy. hehe.

:-) I'm also not sure how much trouble Il'll have convincing the school to

transport her 60 or so miles one way each school day. LOL The ride itself

wouldn't be much longer then her currant bus ride which lasts anywhere from

30-60 min....sometimes longer if the bus breaks down.

Joy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/16/2001 9:52:38 PM Central Daylight Time,

duckiedawn1@... writes:

> . Anyways I hope its ok if I ask this

> question but I am fixin to get sign language started for

> because of failinf hearing and Im putting it in His Iep to get it

> started at school anyways my question is what is the most popular

> sign language out there and which one would be the best one to start

> off on. Thanks for any answers you can give.

> Dawn mom to

>

>

>

Hi Dawn,

We have always used a mixture of SEE & ASL. At this time we will probably

start moving toward ASL. The SEE was because that is what her ST learned in

college and the ASL is what the TDHI uses. BAsically what they did was

picked the sign that was easiest for to form, if you get what I mean.

She also had daily ST for 30min. and her aides and teachers were/are supposed

to learn at least the signs she uses. This will work for a few years and

then in our case seems to no longer be helping to progress. Go for an

aide trained in sign if you can get one because while our approach did work I

think having someone who is trained could make a much bigger impact on the

child.

Right now I'm trying to convice the hubby to let go to the Minn. Academy

for the Deaf for a couple of years....as a day student since he is very very

uncomforable with the thought of having her gone all week (me to). LOL He

is wondering how she'll ever learn to talk if she's with all those kids who

don't. (some do and some don't...depends on the families wishes) Or it could

be he is being lazy and doesn't want to have to actually learn more then he

already knows? hehe Well I'm looking at an almost 12 yo who has a hard time

understanding spoken language probably because of her hearing loss. so

while not deaf she does have the same type of challenges (understanding

what's wanted and getting her point across) I feel it's time to use a more

immersion approach, her sisters agree we just have to convince Daddy. hehe.

:-) I'm also not sure how much trouble Il'll have convincing the school to

transport her 60 or so miles one way each school day. LOL The ride itself

wouldn't be much longer then her currant bus ride which lasts anywhere from

30-60 min....sometimes longer if the bus breaks down.

Joy

[Guest guest]

Maverick learned Signed Exact English. It is also what I learned way before

I even HAD Mav when I was working at a school for children with sp needs.

That is the sign that our Early Intervention program used also. The problem

came when he went to school. We wrote in his IEP that whomever worked with

him had to have instruction in sign language, and they have a teacher on

staff who taught it. However, she used ASL...so that is what all the people

at school are using. It gets confusing, but now he is using less sign so

it's better.

In the front of my Exact Sign Language book it tells why it is better to use

that one for the sp needs population.

[Guest guest]

Maverick learned Signed Exact English. It is also what I learned way before

I even HAD Mav when I was working at a school for children with sp needs.

That is the sign that our Early Intervention program used also. The problem

came when he went to school. We wrote in his IEP that whomever worked with

him had to have instruction in sign language, and they have a teacher on

staff who taught it. However, she used ASL...so that is what all the people

at school are using. It gets confusing, but now he is using less sign so

it's better.

In the front of my Exact Sign Language book it tells why it is better to use

that one for the sp needs population.

[Guest guest]

I am a licensed ASL sign language interpreter. I

worked for the deaf school here in Utah for quite

a while, but actually learned it because of a

hearing loss.

I have both fibromyalgia and arthritis. There

are days that is hurts my fingers terribly, but I

honestly believe that doing the sign language is

what keeps my fingers somewhat limber. I will

admit there are days I am not able to sign, and I

use a HoMedic theraputic massager, which helps a

LOT. I do believe that if one does not use the

SL for awhile, it is very easy to forget.

Several of my partial hearing students would

often slack on not doing it for awhile because of

a holiday or the summer break.

My opinion..(OH OH) is learn more, but try not to

do finger 'spelling' as much. The basic and

advanced is great, and encouraged, but it does

become much harder to do finger spelling.

Warmest of wishes, Debi Hoggan

--- quartznh <quartznh@...> wrote:

> I am sure there are people on this list who

> knows sign language and

> practices it too.

> As a person with SEDc, I have arthritis in my

> hips, and hands. I do

> know the basic in sign language and I'm going

> to learn some more when

> I can find the classes that work around my

> schedule.

> Now, My question is, do you think sign language

> will hurt or help my

> arthritis? and if it makes your hands sore,

> what do you do to help

> them?

>

> a

> 21*F*NH*SEDc

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

There are video tapes you can get

Also, as you get into reading, get you school to start her on Edmark

(computer version).

It comes with a dictionary for signing the words that you learn with the

program. We've found that it's a very good way for a child with speech delays to

demonstrate reading comprehension.

- Becky

In a message dated 5/3/2006 8:54:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,

bonnie.reber6@... writes:

our daugter grace is 6 years old and down syndrome. she if very

delayed in her speech. she can say or will try to say about anything

we ask her to. she also knows sign for about 50 words. we were wanting

to boost her vocab. and general communication. so, i have several

questions.

1. does anyone have something that was tried and true?

2. if we were to take a sign language class together would that help?

3. we live in the dallas/ft worth area and does anyone know of a place

that could help us this summer?

fyi: she is in private speech twice a week, kindermusik, and starts

hippo therapy in june.

thanks for your insight,

bonnie mom to grant, bryant, cale and grace

[Guest guest]

I don't think there is such a thing as a magic bullet. You work and work and

work and sometimes progress is slow and sometimes you see a real spurt. My

son has a severe speech disorder and we work on it always. Don't have any

real advice to offer except that it seems like you are doing all the right

things. (Don't have any experience with sign - did not like to use

it.) - also in Dallas

sign language

> our daugter grace is 6 years old and down syndrome. she if very

> delayed in her speech. she can say or will try to say about anything

> we ask her to. she also knows sign for about 50 words. we were wanting

> to boost her vocab. and general communication. so, i have several

> questions.

> 1. does anyone have something that was tried and true?

> 2. if we were to take a sign language class together would that help?

> 3. we live in the dallas/ft worth area and does anyone know of a place

> that could help us this summer?

>

> fyi: she is in private speech twice a week, kindermusik, and starts

> hippo therapy in june.

>

> thanks for your insight,

> bonnie mom to grant, bryant, cale and grace

>

>

>

>

>

> Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for

messages to go to the sender of the message.

>

[Guest guest]

Micah is exactly the same way at 5 years old. Has anyone said anything

about apraxia?? Micah has apraxia and it is going to take a lot longer for

him

to learn. We use signing also but Micah only signs when he wants to even

though he knows the signs. I think he just wants to be like the rest of the

kids

in class. He is getting speech 5 days a week. Just a thought.

Loree

our daugter grace is 6 years old and down syndrome. she if very

delayed in her speech. she can say or will try to say about anything

we ask her to. she also knows sign for about 50 words. we were wanting

to boost her vocab. and general communication. so, i have several

questions.

1. does anyone have something that was tried and true?

2. if we were to take a sign language class together would that help?

3. we live in the dallas/ft worth area and does anyone know of a place

that could help us this summer?

fyi: she is in private speech twice a week, kindermusik, and starts

hippo therapy in june.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/3/2006 11:13:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

RSYOSH@... writes:

There are video tapes you can get

Also, as you get into reading, get you school to start her on Edmark

(computer version).

It comes with a dictionary for signing the words that you learn with the

program. We've found that it's a very good way for a child with speech

delays to

demonstrate reading comprehension.

- Becky

Thanks for the information Becky. I will ask for this at my IEP meeting for

Micah also!

Loree

[Guest guest]

Bonnie,

We used sign language with and kept building his vocabulary that way.

We had many people tell us that he wouldn't speak if we did this, but we

felt differently in our hearts. He was up to about 250 signs at one point.

Then the verbal language started coming. Since he already knew that each

thing had a word, I believe it made it easier for him. Plus he didn't have

all the frustration that nonverbal kids can have. (for example, he even

knew the difference between the signs and meanings of " more " , and " again " ).

I am a REAL advocate for signing (plus ALWAYS saying the words while you

sign them). dropped the signing with words as he became comfortable

saying them. Now is 9 ...today, actually and he only signs a

little bit now. He is about 95% verbal in his communication We always

told people that criticized us, that we were using signing as a BRIDGE to

speaking. We didn't take a class together, but he learned so fast when I

would teach him signs, that I went back to college for signing and ended up

deciding to become an interpreter. (I ended up pregnant again and now have

a baby, so that will be put on hold...for a great reason), but the timing

was perfect. We got him through what he needed. I was in my 3rd year of

classes Sorry to ramble. I hope this helps you feel confident in your

decision to sign with Grace, and although I don't know your area, most

community colleges have ASL classes you could take. Good luck!!

Kym...mom to 5 including ...who turns 9 years old today

[Guest guest]

I think you'll find, like one of the other moms said, Grace will work and

work and work and boom there will be big progress. Our daughter's language

development took off when she was placed in a reg ed class when she was 6.

Hearing that language from her peers was more important, in some respects,

than anything we did at home.

Eleanor

_____

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf

Of bonnie reber

Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 8:53 PM

Subject: sign language

our daugter grace is 6 years old and down syndrome. she if very

delayed in her speech. she can say or will try to say about anything

we ask her to. she also knows sign for about 50 words. we were wanting

to boost her vocab. and general communication. so, i have several

questions.

1. does anyone have something that was tried and true?

2. if we were to take a sign language class together would that help?

3. we live in the dallas/ft worth area and does anyone know of a place

that could help us this summer?

fyi: she is in private speech twice a week, kindermusik, and starts

hippo therapy in june.

thanks for your insight,

bonnie mom to grant, bryant, cale and grace

Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for

messages to go to the sender of the message.

[Guest guest]

That is awesome Kym! Congratulation on the baby too! This year, the high

school is offering sign language as an alternative to the foreign language

requirement. My son decided to go that route, and I'm hoping he will be able to

use his skills as an interpreter to broaden his career possibilities....if

" professional-wiseguy " is taken, he may need an alternative!!

Karla in Texas

Re: sign language

Bonnie,

We used sign language with and kept building his vocabulary that way.

We had many people tell us that he wouldn't speak if we did this, but we

felt differently in our hearts. He was up to about 250 signs at one point.

Then the verbal language started coming. Since he already knew that each

thing had a word, I believe it made it easier for him. Plus he didn't have

all the frustration that nonverbal kids can have. (for example, he even

knew the difference between the signs and meanings of " more " , and " again " ).

I am a REAL advocate for signing (plus ALWAYS saying the words while you

sign them). dropped the signing with words as he became comfortable

saying them. Now is 9 ...today, actually and he only signs a

little bit now. He is about 95% verbal in his communication We always

told people that criticized us, that we were using signing as a BRIDGE to

speaking. We didn't take a class together, but he learned so fast when I

would teach him signs, that I went back to college for signing and ended up

deciding to become an interpreter. (I ended up pregnant again and now have

a baby, so that will be put on hold...for a great reason), but the timing

was perfect. We got him through what he needed. I was in my 3rd year of

classes Sorry to ramble. I hope this helps you feel confident in your

decision to sign with Grace, and although I don't know your area, most

community colleges have ASL classes you could take. Good luck!!

Kym...mom to 5 including ...who turns 9 years old today

Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for

messages to go to the sender of the message.

[Guest guest]

Kym

Please wish a Happy Birthday from us!

Sharon H.

Mom to , (14, DS) and , (10)

South Carolina

Re: sign language

Bonnie,

We used sign language with and kept building his vocabulary that way.

We had many people tell us that he wouldn't speak if we did this, but we

felt differently in our hearts. He was up to about 250 signs at one point.

Then the verbal language started coming. Since he already knew that each

thing had a word, I believe it made it easier for him. Plus he didn't have

all the frustration that nonverbal kids can have. (for example, he even

knew the difference between the signs and meanings of " more " , and " again " ).

I am a REAL advocate for signing (plus ALWAYS saying the words while you

sign them). dropped the signing with words as he became comfortable

saying them. Now is 9 ...today, actually and he only signs a

little bit now. He is about 95% verbal in his communication We always

told people that criticized us, that we were using signing as a BRIDGE to

speaking. We didn't take a class together, but he learned so fast when I

would teach him signs, that I went back to college for signing and ended up

deciding to become an interpreter. (I ended up pregnant again and now have

a baby, so that will be put on hold...for a great reason), but the timing

was perfect. We got him through what he needed. I was in my 3rd year of

classes Sorry to ramble. I hope this helps you feel confident in your

decision to sign with Grace, and although I don't know your area, most

community colleges have ASL classes you could take. Good luck!!

Kym...mom to 5 including ...who turns 9 years old today

Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for

messages to go to the sender of the message.

[Guest guest]

I highly recommend Communicating Partners from Dr. Mac. He also have

a support egroup similar to this one. I used methods similar to his when my son

was young and it made a dramatic improvement in his speech and communication.

http://www.jamesdmacdonald.org/

Also, Signing Time video has been highly recommended by others I know.

Kristy

www.imdsa.com

[Guest guest]

, just wanted you to know that I also has a hard time learning ASL but

I started at age 12. I just never could really pick it up, I know enough of

it that if I'm with a deaf person I can care on a conversation but that's

about it. I was raised by hearing parents, had all hearing siblings, and all

hearing friends. I always talked and always lip read, which I'm excellent at.

I'm a lot better lip reader than I at ASL. I see nothing wrong with it if

you can't use another language but I encourage everyone to try their best to

learn to speak and lip read. Now my daughter on the other hand who is a

hearing person, went to ASL classes and she signs perfect and she learnt in

about

2-4 month. I never taught her any kind of ASL myself as she was growing up

but she wanted to learn it now she signs in church and is getting ready to go

to college to improve her ASL.

Patsy

Freedom implanted 2/24/2006

Activated 3/27/2006

[Guest guest]

Kent, how true anything is possible, just go for it . Patsy

[Guest guest]

, my daughter is 35 years old so she was not really that young when she

learnt. But I think it's wrong for someone not to allow a deaf person to

speak if they can. It's only right that we use as many of our senses as we

can. I'd be against that class all the way. After I lost my hearing at the

age

of 12, my speech teacher told me " Patsy, you are deaf now, if you start to

depend on ASL as your only language you will forget how to talk, so I want you

to talk. I have always talked I felt that was the best advise anyone could

give a little deaf girl that just lost her hearing...................Patsy

[Guest guest]

Sign language IS inferior to oral communication when it comes to one's

career in the working world, simply because it is not used by the majority.

You have to (or, I should say I have to) get along and make a decent living

in a hearing world. No one at my job is deaf but me. There are 700 people

in my department, at the county of San Diego. Now how am I going to

function here knowing only ASL? Sure you have your conclaves, in Deaf

culture where ASL is the language of choice, but it's just not the world

where you have to go to make a living. I don't know about you, but to me,

making a living is awfully important.

Binns

----Original Message Follows----

From: Deborah H <gypsyheart1963@...>

Reply-

Subject: sign language

Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 16:06:11 -0700 (PDT)

I see that some here are promoting the concept of

deafness as " scourge " , suggesting that it will be a

fine day when ASL vanishes from the face of earth

because it will mean that humans no longer need it.

I feel I must say that this has overtones of lingual

superiority and is not unlike those who argue nowadays

that everyone ought to just speak english in america

because that is the common language...etc.

Not only will it be a long day coming before every

human can have their deafness rectified by some

technological advance or other, it is a narrow view of

human experience to suggest that those who use ASL as

their primary (even only) means of communication are

in denial about who or what they are.

Sign language is NOT inferior to oral communication.

It has its strengths and weaknesses when measured up

again the spoken language. I'm not even interested in

the pro/con deaf CI wars. I am disturbed by the severe

tone that I hear from time to time from one who is

deaf or hoh regarding the use and value of sign

language. I felt strongly enough to want to share my

thoughts on this issue.

Deb

post lingual deaf, CI activated 9/05

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

LINDA, I understand that, hearing aids would not help me. I was completely

deaf for 43 years until I underwent this surgery in Feb. I'm doing very well

now, I'm hearing lots of environmental sounds but as of yet no speech

sounds. But we are working on that also and they have high hopes that this

will

work out well for me. Patsy

[Guest guest]

Hopefully I am not going to regret making a comment. I

do not suggest that one has equal opportunity in the

professional world at large with only ASL at one's

disposal. I know that would not be true for me,

either.

I just felt I was hearing such vehemence coming from

one or two individuals regarding deafness and the Deaf

(with a capital D) person's delusion about the

strength and beauty of ASL that I felt compelled to

comment.

Deb

--- Binns <treasure43@...> wrote:

> Sign language IS inferior to oral communication when

> it comes to one's

> career in the working world, simply because it is

> not used by the majority.

> You have to (or, I should say I have to) get along

> and make a decent living

> in a hearing world. No one at my job is deaf but

> me. There are 700 people

> in my department, at the county of San Diego. Now

> how am I going to

> function here knowing only ASL? Sure you have your

> conclaves, in Deaf

> culture where ASL is the language of choice, but

> it's just not the world

> where you have to go to make a living. I don't know

> about you, but to me,

> making a living is awfully important.

>

> Binns

>

> ----Original Message Follows----

> From: Deborah H <gypsyheart1963@...>

> Reply-

>

> Subject: sign language

> Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 16:06:11 -0700 (PDT)

>

> I see that some here are promoting the concept of

> deafness as " scourge " , suggesting that it will be a

> fine day when ASL vanishes from the face of earth

> because it will mean that humans no longer need it.

> I feel I must say that this has overtones of lingual

> superiority and is not unlike those who argue

> nowadays

> that everyone ought to just speak english in america

> because that is the common language...etc.

>

> Not only will it be a long day coming before every

> human can have their deafness rectified by some

> technological advance or other, it is a narrow view

> of

> human experience to suggest that those who use ASL

> as

> their primary (even only) means of communication are

> in denial about who or what they are.

>

> Sign language is NOT inferior to oral communication.

> It has its strengths and weaknesses when measured up

> again the spoken language. I'm not even interested

> in

> the pro/con deaf CI wars. I am disturbed by the

> severe

> tone that I hear from time to time from one who is

> deaf or hoh regarding the use and value of sign

> language. I felt strongly enough to want to share my

> thoughts on this issue.

>

> Deb

> post lingual deaf, CI activated 9/05

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

, I believe each of us does what we need to do to get along.. and that's

how it should be. Someone who only uses ASL because that's their language of

choice would obviously want to stay where they can communicate best. They

wouldn't choose a career in the hearing persons world, obviously. We each

decide for ourselves and it would be nice if no one judges us for what we decide

to do.

As hearing people who " went deaf " we can't even fathom what real sign language

is all about.. because we are oral and verbal. What is presented to us later

deafened people in adult ed classes etc is just a meager version of sign

language.

If we go to Italy to live we don't expect all the Italians to learn English so

they can talk to us, (or do we?) lol! We adapt to their language if we want to

stay there and earn a living. But even if we attempt to learn Italian we will

never speak it like someone who is fluent in it or has spoken it from birth.

Smiles!

Time to lighten up.. maybe.

Pam

[Guest guest]

Actually Deb, everyone in America ought to learn at least one other spoken

language just as those in other countries do. It's an embarassment that we

don't do this.

However, 's reply to you sums it up. That is reality. Let's not forget

that those who are ASL-only users tend to be very poor in their written language

ability (read: lack thereof)....sorry but this IS an indication of inferiority

when you cannot write with proper grammar in ANY language and it won't get you a

job. There is no excuse for this. I have a friend who is prelingual and

completely deaf with perfect written language skills and full ASL ability. This

is how it should be at a minimum. Anything less is only further handicapping

the situation. Excusing it and allowing one to go on without the ability to use

a language other than ASL to communicate is irresponsible. It is detrimental to

them. They need to be able to cope with the real world. Instead we have scores

on SSI or other types of welfare. Those who are lucky generally work in a

Deaf-related field such as Deaf education.

You can go on all you want about how it's the rest of the world that needs to

change...but good luck! Deafness is an affliction and a handicap. Having ASL

as the only means of language is no better than being illiterate. You can put

candy sprinkles on doggy doo but it's still doggy doo. Calling it linguistic

superiority or oralism demonstrates an inability to grasp the issue. I've

grasped it and I won't ignore the reality because I feel content to pat them on

the head and say " it's ok, you're deaf. " My approach is " You're deaf and you're

going to have to bust your ass to make it in this world..it's not a deaf world

and anyone telling you otherwise isn't doing you any favors. Give yourself the

keys to the world because there are those who would keep them from you in the

name of celebrating your deafness. "

It's not just the professional world that remains out of their grasp...it's the

world...period.

sign language

I see that some here are promoting the concept of

deafness as " scourge " , suggesting that it will be a

fine day when ASL vanishes from the face of earth

because it will mean that humans no longer need it.

I feel I must say that this has overtones of lingual

superiority and is not unlike those who argue nowadays

that everyone ought to just speak english in america

because that is the common language...etc.

Not only will it be a long day coming before every

human can have their deafness rectified by some

technological advance or other, it is a narrow view of

human experience to suggest that those who use ASL as

their primary (even only) means of communication are

in denial about who or what they are.

Sign language is NOT inferior to oral communication.

It has its strengths and weaknesses when measured up

again the spoken language. I'm not even interested in

the pro/con deaf CI wars. I am disturbed by the severe

tone that I hear from time to time from one who is

deaf or hoh regarding the use and value of sign

language. I felt strongly enough to want to share my

thoughts on this issue.

Deb

post lingual deaf, CI activated 9/05

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I absolutely agree with about multiple languages. We, deaf, hard of

hearing, hearing, should be able to become multimode--ASL, Cued Speech, etc, and

learn as many language as possible. If just having CI is enough for us to

learn, then that's great. If it's not, then there are ways to learn the spoken

language other than ASL. Anything is possible!

Kent

<bleedingpurist@...> wrote:

Actually Deb, everyone in America ought to learn at least one other spoken

language just as those in other countries do. It's an embarassment that we

don't do this.

However, 's reply to you sums it up. That is reality. Let's not forget

that those who are ASL-only users tend to be very poor in their written language

ability (read: lack thereof)....sorry but this IS an indication of inferiority

when you cannot write with proper grammar in ANY language and it won't get you a

job. There is no excuse for this. I have a friend who is prelingual and

completely deaf with perfect written language skills and full ASL ability. This

is how it should be at a minimum. Anything less is only further handicapping

the situation. Excusing it and allowing one to go on without the ability to use

a language other than ASL to communicate is irresponsible. It is detrimental to

them. They need to be able to cope with the real world. Instead we have scores

on SSI or other types of welfare. Those who are lucky generally work in a

Deaf-related field such as Deaf education.

You can go on all you want about how it's the rest of the world that needs to

change...but good luck! Deafness is an affliction and a handicap. Having ASL

as the only means of language is no better than being illiterate. You can put

candy sprinkles on doggy doo but it's still doggy doo. Calling it linguistic

superiority or oralism demonstrates an inability to grasp the issue. I've

grasped it and I won't ignore the reality because I feel content to pat them on

the head and say " it's ok, you're deaf. " My approach is " You're deaf and you're

going to have to bust your ass to make it in this world..it's not a deaf world

and anyone telling you otherwise isn't doing you any favors. Give yourself the

keys to the world because there are those who would keep them from you in the

name of celebrating your deafness. "

It's not just the professional world that remains out of their grasp...it's the

world...period.

sign language

I see that some here are promoting the concept of

deafness as " scourge " , suggesting that it will be a

fine day when ASL vanishes from the face of earth

because it will mean that humans no longer need it.

I feel I must say that this has overtones of lingual

superiority and is not unlike those who argue nowadays

that everyone ought to just speak english in america

because that is the common language...etc.

Not only will it be a long day coming before every

human can have their deafness rectified by some

technological advance or other, it is a narrow view of

human experience to suggest that those who use ASL as

their primary (even only) means of communication are

in denial about who or what they are.

Sign language is NOT inferior to oral communication.

It has its strengths and weaknesses when measured up

again the spoken language. I'm not even interested in

the pro/con deaf CI wars. I am disturbed by the severe

tone that I hear from time to time from one who is

deaf or hoh regarding the use and value of sign

language. I felt strongly enough to want to share my

thoughts on this issue.

Deb

post lingual deaf, CI activated 9/05

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Agreed. I have enough ASL to 'read' an interpreter. Signing myself has

proved to be a problem. I don't seem to have the coordination, or possibly

started learning too late, age 42. Also, the classes I've found to take,

were taught by a hearing instructor, and I was one of only a few deaf in the

class, most were hearing parents of hoh children, or hearing spouses. I

think I just didn't have the right kinds of classes.

Binns

----Original Message Follows----

From: Kent Trader <mekutochi@...>

Reply-

Subject: Re: sign language

Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 17:50:38 -0700 (PDT)

I absolutely agree with about multiple languages. We, deaf, hard of

hearing, hearing, should be able to become multimode--ASL, Cued Speech, etc,

and learn as many language as possible. If just having CI is enough for us

to learn, then that's great. If it's not, then there are ways to learn the

spoken language other than ASL. Anything is possible!

Kent

<bleedingpurist@...> wrote:

Actually Deb, everyone in America ought to learn at least one other

spoken language just as those in other countries do. It's an embarassment

that we don't do this.

However, 's reply to you sums it up. That is reality. Let's not

forget that those who are ASL-only users tend to be very poor in their

written language ability (read: lack thereof)....sorry but this IS an

indication of inferiority when you cannot write with proper grammar in ANY

language and it won't get you a job. There is no excuse for this. I have a

friend who is prelingual and completely deaf with perfect written language

skills and full ASL ability. This is how it should be at a minimum.

Anything less is only further handicapping the situation. Excusing it and

allowing one to go on without the ability to use a language other than ASL

to communicate is irresponsible. It is detrimental to them. They need to

be able to cope with the real world. Instead we have scores on SSI or other

types of welfare. Those who are lucky generally work in a Deaf-related

field such as Deaf education.

You can go on all you want about how it's the rest of the world that needs

to change...but good luck! Deafness is an affliction and a handicap.

Having ASL as the only means of language is no better than being illiterate.

You can put candy sprinkles on doggy doo but it's still doggy doo.

Calling it linguistic superiority or oralism demonstrates an inability to

grasp the issue. I've grasped it and I won't ignore the reality because I

feel content to pat them on the head and say " it's ok, you're deaf. " My

approach is " You're deaf and you're going to have to bust your ass to make

it in this world..it's not a deaf world and anyone telling you otherwise

isn't doing you any favors. Give yourself the keys to the world because

there are those who would keep them from you in the name of celebrating your

deafness. "

It's not just the professional world that remains out of their grasp...it's

the world...period.

sign language

I see that some here are promoting the concept of

deafness as " scourge " , suggesting that it will be a

fine day when ASL vanishes from the face of earth

because it will mean that humans no longer need it.

I feel I must say that this has overtones of lingual

superiority and is not unlike those who argue nowadays

that everyone ought to just speak english in america

because that is the common language...etc.

Not only will it be a long day coming before every

human can have their deafness rectified by some

technological advance or other, it is a narrow view of

human experience to suggest that those who use ASL as

their primary (even only) means of communication are

in denial about who or what they are.

Sign language is NOT inferior to oral communication.

It has its strengths and weaknesses when measured up

again the spoken language. I'm not even interested in

the pro/con deaf CI wars. I am disturbed by the severe

tone that I hear from time to time from one who is

deaf or hoh regarding the use and value of sign

language. I felt strongly enough to want to share my

thoughts on this issue.

Deb

post lingual deaf, CI activated 9/05

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Patsy,

That is interesting, Is it that it's easier to learn when you're younger? I

still think I just haven't chosen the best kinds of classes. I need classes

geared to deaf, not hearing. Haven't been able to find those yet. I have a

deaf friend on another list who is taking a class taught by a deaf

instructor, and they aren't allowed to speak at all, just use ASL in the

class. Total immersion, for that time period, anyways.

Binns

----Original Message Follows----

From: MSBUDDY1951@...

Reply-

Subject: Re: sign language

Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 21:31:52 EDT

, just wanted you to know that I also has a hard time learning ASL but

I started at age 12. I just never could really pick it up, I know enough

of

it that if I'm with a deaf person I can care on a conversation but that's

about it. I was raised by hearing parents, had all hearing siblings, and

all

hearing friends. I always talked and always lip read, which I'm excellent

at.

I'm a lot better lip reader than I at ASL. I see nothing wrong with it if

you can't use another language but I encourage everyone to try their best

to

learn to speak and lip read. Now my daughter on the other hand who is a

hearing person, went to ASL classes and she signs perfect and she learnt in

about

2-4 month. I never taught her any kind of ASL myself as she was growing up

but she wanted to learn it now she signs in church and is getting ready to

go

to college to improve her ASL.

Patsy

Freedom implanted 2/24/2006

Activated 3/27/2006