Writing Help - Janice and others

[Guest guest]

Hello,

I'm trying to find out what I can do to help my daughter with her

writing. We have been doing hand over hand for a long time and one

point I thought she had but now we're back to hand over hand.

My daughter loves to scribble on paper but I'm trying to approach this

writing from a different angle because what I'm doing is not working.

when she scribbles, I may ask her to draw a circle or a line or write

her name then let her get back to scribbling. Sometimes, I draw with

her but I have never been able to really pull her into anything other

than the scribbling.

your advice would be appreciated.

[Guest guest]

There was just a huge amount of help answered on this a few days ago-

did you just join?

Here's mine but if you go to this link and scroll to the bottom you'll

find a bunch more. I didn't see an answer from Janice in this group

but or I would have put that below -but from what I found the advice

has a common thread...and most of us with older children have found the

following strategies to help the child overcome while still very young.

/message/82307

Re: Handwriting Help!

Hi !

Looks like you aleardy got lots of suggestions which is great -here's

a few more from the archives from a bunch of different people!

~~~~~~~~~~start of archives

Re: what about handwriting?

Handwriting is an important academic skill that children use to

communicate their thoughts, feelings, and knowledge to others. The

quality of handwriting is affected by multiple skills including

vision, memory, posture, and body control.

As a parent, you can help your child by reinforcing optimal

conditions for writing. The following are suggestions for achieving

that:

1. Vision: Check with the school nurse to ensure that your child

passed the vision screening. Academic challenges of 3rd -5th grade

require more intense visual skills and this is a time period where

many students are identified as needing glasses. At home you can

help vision by providing proper lighting.

2. Positioning: At home, make sure your child has a place to do

homework. For optimal writing performance, a child's feet should be

flat on the floor when sitting, knees and hips should be flexed at

90 degree angles, the desk or table top should be only 1 to 2 " above

the students bent elbow, the seat depth should be such that the

child can sit all the way back in their seat and still have room to

comfortably bend their knees at a 90 degree angle, and the seat

should provide support in the back high enough to reach slightly

above the child's shoulder blades.

3. Writing Grasp: The dynamic tripod grasp is used by most students

in school and should be reinforced at home as well. A dynamic tripod

grasp consists of the ring and pinkie finger being tucked into the

palm of the hand with the thumb and index finger pinching the

writing utensil and the middle finger supporting the underside of

the writing utensil (see illustration). Sometimes this grasp can be

facilitated by using a pencil grip ( available at most department or

office supply stores and at the student store at school). Some

students use pencil grips more for comfort than positioning.

http://www.link75.org/bcs/OTwebsite/handwriting.html

http://www.charterschools.org/pdf/05finemotorskills.pdf

Re: what about handwriting?

We briefly had OT and we had a great therapist. We talked about how

handwriting would probably be difficult for Charlotte and she gave us

some thoughts on it. Since we are homeschooling we have the ability

to decide what type of handwriting to do. She suggested D'Nealian

handwriting. It's a form of handwriting (printing) where the letters

look more cursive-like and most letters are formed via one stroke.

She said that if you think about handwriting you have several steps

1)how to hold the pencile, 2) putting the pencil to the paper, and

3)making the movement. That's a lot of steps for a child with

apraxia. The D'Nealian handwriting only requires putting the pencil

to the paper one time for most letters and makes it easier. She also

suggested perhaps skipping printing altogether and going straight to

cursive.

And one fabulous tip she gave us. Don't teach handwriting one a paper

on a desk or table flat in front of the body. She said it is much

much easier to coordinate the hands and eyes if you write on something

upright like a paper on an easel. She said that when she goes into

classrooms for handwriting practice the first thing she does is to

have the kids get their papers upright.

She was a fabulous OT. She knew a lot about apraxia. I wish all

therapists were like her.

Re: what about handwriting?

My 39 mo has a handwriting box (It's called a " Pencil Gymnastics Kit "

http://therapyshoppe.com/product.php?cat=1 & id=696 & offset=0) from his

hand surgeon but he was born with birth defects on his hands. He has 4

fingers and 2 thumbs and all are very short. He uses mini loop

scissors (http://therapyshoppe.com/product.php?cat=3 & id=74 & offset=0).

He can color in straight lines and make crosses and circles so I am

not worried. His hand grasp is incorrect but to me he is still a baby

and he may have to adapt since his hands are not formed like mine. He

just needs time.

This is antedotal evidence but here it is: I have 4 children; boy 9

years 10 mos, girl 8 years 8 mos, girl 6 years 9 mos, and a boy 39

mos.

My oldest son has always had horrible handwriting! It's HUGE and

wobbly like a preschoolers. For some reason this year his handwriting

improved!?! He writes smaller and neater yet he is slower. (Maybe

starting algebra had something to do with it? We also bought a new

manual typewriter. Otherwise nothing else is new.)

My girls have almost always had beautiful neat even pretty

handwriting!

We're homeschoolers. None of my children ever had a handwriting lesson

beyond coloring books and art materials except my firstborn (who had

the worst handwriting!). I was a first time homescholer and I bought

the Zaner Blosser handwriting books and lined paper like the public

schools use. Once I dropped that my son's writing improved although it

was still messy.

From my experience boys write larger and less neat than girls and they

improve later. My children became interested in writing at 4+ years

old. Most children's writing will improve as they get older.

Unfortunately if they are in an institutional setting they have to

write neater sooner than they may be ready to. My son's hand surgeon

as well as his therapist use " Handwriting Without Tears "

(http://www.hwtears.com/). You may find it cheaper through a Google

search; many homeschoolers use it too.

Sincerely,

Debra

*None of my children could tie their shoes properly until they were

about 7! Sure they could tie their shoes before that but to tie it

once without it coming undone and have it nice and tight took longer.

Re: what about handwriting?

Rita:

My son has difficulty writing as well...he is only 4 but getting him

to even try is somewhat difficult. We have enlisted a Occupational

Therapist to help us with his fine motor issues. I have purchased dry

erase books with letters and numbers and work with him one on one a

few days a week on top of what they are doing at school. Keep in mind

that if you can make it fun then he may be more willing to

participate. You may want to play music while trying to do something

like this. I find if I play music he likes when doing something like

this it helps. I keep the volume minimal and I try to use colorful

props. We have started a chart for things he does well...new words

ect....and we do rewards with stickers and tootsie rolls. All of

these things can be purchased at Wal-Mart for under 20.00...so it is

an inexpensive way to try something.

Hope that helps.

Handwriting and dyspraxia

I have just read by Mel Levine, The Myth of Laziness. It is so

interesting,

I cannot put the book down. This book describes my son who had verbal

dyspraxia. He was saying some kids donot do very good in writing, not

because

they don't like to write, its because it is hard for them to write.

Sometimes

by

holding the pencil wrong (my son uses his wrist like a hook) to write

his

hand gets cramped and writing is hard. Also, he had said that it is

children

with dyspraxia " praxis " also can affect their finger tips and

therefore, has

Output disfunction which makes it difficult for a child to either say

it or

write it. They understand everything and are quite brillant, but

don't seem

that smart at school for their disabilities. Dr. Levin also describes

in

his book a little test, he holds up his five fingers and bends the

index finger

down and then up and then thumb down and then up and see if a child

can do

that with the child looking at his/her fingers. Sometimes a child who

has a

hard time copying his pattern has a hard time thinking thoughts in

their head

and then having to write them on paper. Just had to share this

information.

And this old archive has a few tips of what worked for us

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Tue Jan 6, 2004 9:56 pm

Subject: Re: Are these new developments typical of verbal apraxia?

Hi Kim!

In the early days many of us think our child is " just " a late talker-

as you can see in my first email to a grouplist below -I too thought

this of Tanner. Archives and emails are great because they give us

a timeline. When you archive Kim you will not only see how you

learned about new conditions faces -but how far he has come!

The thing about most apraxic (or communication impaired or delayed

for those who have children not diagnosed at all or as something

else) is that most have average to above average intelligence. In

other words kids like know what is expected of them and they

push themselves to do it. As they get older however, more and more

is expected of them independently, and when they can't keep up -they

begin to break down. This is why it is so important to see

knowledgeable neuroMDs when your child is young -and a good one can

diagnose young. And as I covered the other day -there are more

advanced neuroimaging techniques -so between that and genetic

testing -perhaps definitive diagnosis won't remain the crapshoot it

is today for too much longer.

I can tell you as a parent of an older apraxic child (Tanner turned

7 June 11th) that he was late to do a few things other than speech -

like potty train. Lots of parents here also stress out about late

potty training -and it was more than one neuroMD that told me that

Tanner's working hard on other issues -and may not have the muscle

control due to the hypotonia -so " give him a bit more time " Wise

advice -he potty trained late at four...but 20 years from now will

anyone care?

Please don't stress about a 5 year old who has sloppy handwriting.

Who knows where Tanner's self esteem and thus academic work and

social skills would be if he felt there was something wrong with him

because he took a bit longer to learn to write. A child in

kindergarten isn't expected to be sitting at a desk writing

sentences anyway...that isn't until first grade.

Tanner's handwriting started off early in the year horrible, but he

was just learning then. In kindergarten did I care that Tanner was

still learning how to draw lines and circles and hold a pencil

correctly? No -we and the professionals just kept working with

him.

Tanner transitioned out of OT at the end of kindergarten last year

at 6. Up till 6 years old he was still working on holding a pencil

correctly and writing with his OT due to his motor planning

problems. This was one of the main reasons that I also say there is

no way Tanner would have been ready to start kindergarten at 5 -he

would not have been ready for first grade at 6! Starting Tanner at

6 in kindergarten he was one of the top in the class...and no matter

how hard the spelling words and school assignments are each week -

Tanner is still getting straight A's in every subject -and now with

neat handwriting too.

Glenn and I never worried about Tanner catching up -he always does.

And many times Tanner doesn't just catch up -he passes others!

Tanner is a child that pushes himself and works hard to do what

others do not only when others ask him to -but because he so badly

wants to. The teacher told me early in the year that there was a

contest for children that knew how to read chapter books...this is

when Tanner was just learning to read books like Dr. Seuss Hop on

Pop. Tanner came home to me to tell me about this contest and how

much he wanted to do this. In speaking with his teacher -she too

knew how much he wanted to be part of this contest -but he wasn't

advanced enough of a reader. Tanner's going to be able to be part

of it next year -he's not yet quite up to chapter books -but coming

closer every week. And you know what -he may be behind a few others

in his advanced class -but he is doing far better than many in

public schools in first grade at this point.

Tanner takes pride in how neat his handwriting is now. I sometimes

can't even believe he wrote what he wrote it's so perfect!

As I always say in the long run is what matters. Nobody will care

twenty years from now if had neat handwriting in

preschool or it took till first or even second grade -you can always

teach those with sloppy handwriting like me to become doctors

(someone needs to write prescriptions) -or how to type. But if you

shatter a child's self esteem that's something that's hard to teach.

My suggestions other than to not worry about it? Buy things that

are fun that at the same time help with strength and motor

planning. Chunky pencils, markers and crayons are great. Don't

forget the pencil grips to help too. Clay is always

good not just for motor planning -but for working out feelings,

developing creativity. You can even get a PlayDoh Game Pen!

Last time I was in Toys R Us I think I even saw a game for younger

kids that had clay or playdoh. Or just make up your own games. Here

is a cute home game for " Playdough Pictionary " you can age down or

up.

http://lds.about.com/library/bl/games/blplaydough.htm

(the one I have may be too old for -but my boys (7 and 9)

love Cranium Cadoo where they get to make things with clay -act

things out -draw etc. Tanner is finally old enough to read some of

what he needs to with the magic glasses by himself!)

Buy arts and crafts things like SpectraColor Image Pad or even plain

old finger paints where he needs to use his fingers. And if you are

around to supervise -Shrinky Dinks is great for helping with fine

motor skills too -all the coloring and cutting and pasting etc.

Dr. Agin through her keen eye diagnosed Tanner when he was three

years old with sensory integration dysfunction, mild hypotonia, mild

motor planning issues in his body -and of course oral apraxia. His

verbal apraxia was not diagnosed until he was a bit older and

actually started to talk. Now that you know this -read the post

below which was prior to Tanner being diagnosed by Dr. Agin. In

hindsight the signs of other issues were there even when he was

younger -even the reasons why we called him " cherub boy " and " the

serious baby " -we just excused the signs away.

=====

[Guest guest]

, for reasons I do not get, TLP helped with writing here in both

kids.