Re: Flu responses

[Guest guest]

I tend to stay away from extremes, but what upset me was that it's claimed

nobody has ever died from influenza. To me those who believe this are no

different than those that claim there was never a Holocaust. It's disrespectful

in my opinion to those that lost their lives to deny that something never

happened.

My Aunt who is now over 80 and a retired PhD in nursing was around far longer

than most of us and in her opinion she does not believe the deaths of the 1918

pandemic were due to those that had TB. It's fine to debate and discuss each

side -but to bold words and say that the talk of watching this new strain is

nothing more than propaganda to create fear, especially since most of what I've

read is saying the strain is mild but it's wise to keep an eye on it, is to me

projecting (does everyone know what that means? It means that you see something

in others that you yourself are guilty of...scaring people into thinking that

all information we receive today - globally -is from a drug company in hopes to

sell more vaccines is propaganda)

Maureen knows about some who died of influenza and this isn't the first time

this subject has come up. The messages that are anti vaccine to the extreme

upset me too because my Aunt has told me numerous times that she is only alive

today due to vaccines as because she was also an army nurse she happened to have

been vaccinated to certain conditions others around her were not- and many died.

Some of things we have learned how to treat today. Probably none of us watched

our friends and family die of diseases that were spreading person to person

seemingly without protection.

It's nice isn't it that we can sit in our air conditioned houses on our

computers and search and post information from anyone from a known reputable

medical organization to a blogger who's blogging from sweatpants sitting in a

library somewhere. Nothing against that -but the point is we all have a choice

and I choose not to go to extremes when possible as truth typically lies

somewhere in the middle.

And when someone (like me) responds to a post and points out credible reasons

why information about influenza that keeps getting posted here is flawed..don't

just keep sending it -respond -and not with more of the same stuff. You can

bold that nobody ever dies of influenza and say it's a government conspiracy but

that doesn't make it true. In spite of all I know my family has yet to receive

a flu shot any year ever -but would I ever get one ...or try to get one should I

say since there won't be enough -if there was a pandemic -YES! Then again I

guess if enough people think it's not necessary perhaps there will be enough to

go around to families that want protection. In my opinion we are just learning

a taste of what it's like to grow up during the depression...most of us don't

know what it's like to live through a pandemic. I hope everyone here can stay

innocent to that and even keep silly beliefs. But for goodness sake please be

aware that some of it is just that -silly. There really is such a thing as a

deadly disease and the concern is that as things mutate they can become more

lethal. With pneumonic plague for example you wouldn't even have time to try

out any silly methods to get rid of it as it kills in as quick as one day.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/plague/DS00493/DSECTION=symptoms

Here was a PBS documentary -I never saw it so don't know if it was good -but it

does provide a list.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/rxforsurvival/series/diseases/index.html

=====

[Guest guest]

03/03/09 06:48 AM

WOODMERE

Second child dies of flu on Long Island

the_buffalo_n880:http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/416027.html

Buzz up!

Since I live in NY , this year two children died of the flu in Long

Island....and a couple of years ago , a poor child died under a Christmas tree

of the flu. I remember because one of my children had the flu that year and I

was pretty nervous. I didnt really follow the thread too well but saw 's

reply. FYI

WOODMERE(AP)—The flu has apparently caused the death of a second Long Island

child this season, Nassau County health officials said Monday.

The initial finding of Influenza A was made by the medical examiner in the death

a 9- year-old Woodmere student, officials said. Conclusive laboratory test

results are expected later this week.

The first death from the flu was confirmed in a 10-year-old Levittown child last

month.

Flu symptoms include fever, headache, muscle aches, weakness, runny rose, sore

throat and cough, and occasionally vomiting and diarrhea in children.

From: kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: Flu responses

Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 2:11 PM

I tend to stay away from extremes, but what upset me was that it's claimed

nobody has ever died from influenza. To me those who believe this are no

different than those that claim there was never a Holocaust. It's disrespectful

in my opinion to those that lost their lives to deny that something never

happened.

My Aunt who is now over 80 and a retired PhD in nursing was around far longer

than most of us and in her opinion she does not believe the deaths of the 1918

pandemic were due to those that had TB. It's fine to debate and discuss each

side -but to bold words and say that the talk of watching this new strain is

nothing more than propaganda to create fear, especially since most of what I've

read is saying the strain is mild but it's wise to keep an eye on it, is to me

projecting (does everyone know what that means? It means that you see something

in others that you yourself are guilty of...scaring people into thinking that

all information we receive today - globally -is from a drug company in hopes to

sell more vaccines is propaganda)

Maureen knows about some who died of influenza and this isn't the first time

this subject has come up. The messages that are anti vaccine to the extreme

upset me too because my Aunt has told me numerous times that she is only alive

today due to vaccines as because she was also an army nurse she happened to have

been vaccinated to certain conditions others around her were not- and many died.

Some of things we have learned how to treat today. Probably none of us watched

our friends and family die of diseases that were spreading person to person

seemingly without protection.

It's nice isn't it that we can sit in our air conditioned houses on our

computers and search and post information from anyone from a known reputable

medical organization to a blogger who's blogging from sweatpants sitting in a

library somewhere. Nothing against that -but the point is we all have a choice

and I choose not to go to extremes when possible as truth typically lies

somewhere in the middle.

And when someone (like me) responds to a post and points out credible reasons

why information about influenza that keeps getting posted here is flawed..don' t

just keep sending it -respond -and not with more of the same stuff. You can bold

that nobody ever dies of influenza and say it's a government conspiracy but that

doesn't make it true. In spite of all I know my family has yet to receive a flu

shot any year ever -but would I ever get one ...or try to get one should I say

since there won't be enough -if there was a pandemic -YES! Then again I guess if

enough people think it's not necessary perhaps there will be enough to go around

to families that want protection. In my opinion we are just learning a taste of

what it's like to grow up during the depression.. .most of us don't know what

it's like to live through a pandemic. I hope everyone here can stay innocent to

that and even keep silly beliefs. But for goodness sake please be aware that

some of it

is just that -silly. There really is such a thing as a deadly disease and the

concern is that as things mutate they can become more lethal. With pneumonic

plague for example you wouldn't even have time to try out any silly methods to

get rid of it as it kills in as quick as one day.

http://www.mayoclin ic.com/health/ plague/DS00493/ DSECTION= symptoms

Here was a PBS documentary -I never saw it so don't know if it was good -but it

does provide a list.

http://www.pbs. org/wgbh/ rxforsurvival/ series/diseases/ index.html

=====

[Guest guest]

Thank goodness someone stepped up and said this. Man, I was beginning to wonder.

Thanks .

[Guest guest]

But I think that clarification needs to be made. Did they die from

influenza or from COMPLICATIONS brought about by the influenze?

know what I mean?

I've long since learned that depending on where a person comes from--

sometimes the wording is everything

bek

In a message dated 5/2/2009 2:21:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kiddietal

k@... writes:

I tend to stay away from extremes, but what upset me was that it's claimed

nobody has ever died from influenza. To me those who believe this are no

different than those that claim there was never a Holocaust. It's

disrespectful in my opinion to those that lost their lives to deny that

something

never happened.

**************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy

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[Guest guest]

well, for what it's worth-- every single story I've seen on it has scare

tactics that I find a bit much.

There was one quote that said " be prepared to see more deaths of

Americans " while the reporter sat there telling people " not to worry " . And

yet--

everything they were using as a tag line would say the opposite and it would

incite people to become fearful.

Maybe it depends on what state a person is living in-- as to what sort of

news reports they're hearing?

I do think that this is a prep to a new vaccine-- sorry-- maybe I'm a

conspiracy theorist-- but I just think something is wonky with this thing.

Bek

In a message dated 5/2/2009 2:21:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

kiddietalk@... writes:

but to bold words and say that the talk of watching this new strain is

nothing more than propaganda to create fear, especially since most of what

I've read is saying the strain is mild but it's wise to keep an eye on it, is

to me projecting (does everyone know what that means? It means that you see

something in others that you yourself are guilty of...scaring people into

thinking that all information we receive today - globally -is from a drug

company in hopes to sell more vaccines is propaganda)

**************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy

Steps!

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www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072 & hmpgID=62 & bcd=M

ay5309AvgfooterNO62)

[Guest guest]

Again-- I might suggest that these children died from COMPLICATIONS

associated with the flu.

Complications such as dehydration perhaps--- which, if taken care of, the

child will survive and thrive.

It's just very important to consider that some people truly don't recognize

when it's important to get their child medical help-- or they might

recognize it and they are too busy-- or think they can wait til the morning,

etc.

It's a good idea to educate people on things to look for when children are

sick--- and I wish that this was pushed more

Bek

In a message dated 5/2/2009 3:05:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

sweetysource@... writes:

03/03/09 06:48 AM

WOODMERE

Second child dies of flu on Long Island

the_buffalo_the_b_http://www.buffalonhttp://www.buhttp://www.buhttp_

(http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/416027.html)

Buzz up!

Since I live in NY , this year two children died of the flu in Long

Island....and a couple of years ago , a poor child died under a Christmas tree

of

the flu. I remember because one of my children had the flu that year and I

was pretty nervous. I didnt really follow the thread too well but saw

's reply. FYI

WOODMERE(AP)—The flu has apparently caused the death of a second Long

Island child this season, Nassau County health officials said Monday.

The initial finding of Influenza A was made by the medical examiner in the

death a 9- year-old Woodmere student, officials said. Conclusive

laboratory test results are expected later this week.

The first death from the flu was confirmed in a 10-year-old Levittown

child last month.

Flu symptoms include fever, headache, muscle aches, weakness, runny rose,

sore throat and cough, and occasionally vomiting and diarrhea in children.

From: kiddietalk <_kiddietalk@..._ (mailto:kiddietalk@...) >

Subject: [childrensapraxianeSubject: [childr

_ childrensaprachi_

(mailto: )

Date: Saturday, May 2, 2009, 2:11 PM

I tend to stay away from extremes, but what upset me was that it's claimed

nobody has ever died from influenza. To me those who believe this are no

different than those that claim there was never a Holocaust. It's

disrespectful in my opinion to those that lost their lives to deny that

something

never happened.

My Aunt who is now over 80 and a retired PhD in nursing was around far

longer than most of us and in her opinion she does not believe the deaths of

the 1918 pandemic were due to those that had TB. It's fine to debate and

discuss each side -but to bold words and say that the talk of watching this

new strain is nothing more than propaganda to create fear, especially since

most of what I've read is saying the strain is mild but it's wise to keep an

eye on it, is to me projecting (does everyone know what that means? It

means that you see something in others that you yourself are guilty

of...scaring people into thinking that all information we receive today -

globally

-is from a drug company in hopes to sell more vaccines is propaganda)

Maureen knows about some who died of influenza and this isn't the first

time this subject has come up. The messages that are anti vaccine to the

extreme upset me too because my Aunt has told me numerous times that she is

only alive today due to vaccines as because she was also an army nurse she

happened to have been vaccinated to certain conditions others around her were

not- and many died. Some of things we have learned how to treat today.

Probably none of us watched our friends and family die of diseases that were

spreading person to person seemingly without protection.

It's nice isn't it that we can sit in our air conditioned houses on our com

puters and search and post information from anyone from a known reputable

medical organization to a blogger who's blogging from sweatpants sitting in

a library somewhere. Nothing against that -but the point is we all have a

choice and I choose not to go to extremes when possible as truth typically

lies somewhere in the middle.

And when someone (like me) responds to a post and points out credible

reasons why information about influenza that keeps getting posted here is

flawed..don' t just keep sending it -respond -and not with more of the same

stuff. You can bold that nobody ever dies of influenza and say it's a

government conspiracy but that doesn't make it true. In spite of all I know my

family has yet to receive a flu shot any year ever -but would I ever get one

....or try to get one should I say since there won't be enough -if there was a

pandemic -YES! Then again I guess if enough people think it's not necessary

perhaps there will be enough to go around to families that want

protection. In my opinion we are just learning a taste of what it's like to

grow up

during the depression.. .most of us don't know what it's like to live

through a pandemic. I hope everyone here can stay innocent to that and even

keep

silly beliefs. But for goodness sake please be aware that some of it

is just that -silly. There really is such a thing as a deadly disease and

the concern is that as things mutate they can become more lethal. With

pneumonic plague for example you wouldn't even have time to try out any silly

methods to get rid of it as it kills in as quick as one day.

_http://www.mayoclin_ (http://www.mayoclin/) ic.com/health/

plague/DS00493/ DSECTION= symptoms

Here was a PBS documentary -I never saw it so don't know if it was good

-but it does provide a list.

_http://www.pbs._ (http://www.pbs./) org/wgbh/ rxforsurvival/

series/diseases/ index.html

=====

Geng

President CHERAB Foundation

Communication Help, Education, Research, Apraxia Base

_http://www.cherab._ (http://www.cherab./) org

_http://www.apraxia._ (http://www.apraxia./) org

_http://twitter._ (http://twitter./) com/TheLateTalke r

772-335-5135

" Help give our cherubs a smile and a voice "

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Guest guest]

You know I didn't even think of that. I bet your right. Remember when

you never heard anything about HPV or Chicken Pox? Then all of a sudden

that's all you heard about and magically vaccines came out for them.

shannon

[Guest guest]

seems like just semantics here---the family that I know in my sons school lost

their only child to the flu or complications from the flu--no matter what its

called--they still lost their one and only child.

If you had been at my sons school to see his 1st grade teacher and every woman

in his school crying and bawling on their way to this little boys

funeral--imagine if someone had told them--well you should all be glad he didnt

die of the flu--but of complications from it, I would get some very, very

strange looks! We could ask a doctor but children and adults do die from

dehydration too-- sometimes it does not take care of itself and they do not

thrive--they're still gone.

http://www.diet.com/g/dehydration

The very young and the very old are most likely to become dehydrated. Young

children are at greater risk because they are more likely to get diseases that

cause vomiting, diarrhea, and fever. Worldwide, dehydration is the leading cause

of death in children. In the United States, 400–500 children under the age of 5

die every year of dehydration. The elderly are at risk because they are less

likely to drink when they become dehydrated. The thirst mechanism often becomes

less sensitive as people age. Also, their kidneys lose the ability to make

highly concentrated urine. Older individuals who are confined to wheelchairs or

bed and cannot get water for themselves (e.g. nursing home and hospital

patients) are at risk of developing chronic dehydration.

Causes and symptoms

Diarrhea, often accompanied by vomiting, is the leading cause of dehydration.

Both water and electrolytes are lost in large quantities. Diarrhea is often

caused by bacteria, viruses, or parasite. Fever that often accompanies disease

accelerates the amount of water that is lost through the skin. The smaller the

child, the greater the risk of dehydration. Worldwide, acute diarrhea accounts

for the death of about 4 million children each year. In the United States, about

220,000 children are hospitalized for dehydration caused by diarrhea annually.

Heavy sweating also causes dehydration and loss of electrolytes. Athletes,

especially endurance athletes and individuals with active outdoor professions

such such as roofers and road crew workers are at high risk of becoming

dehydrated. Children who play sports can also be vulnerable to dehydration.

Dehydration can be mild, moderate or severe. Mild dehydration occurs when fluid

losses equal 3– 5%. At this point, the thirst sensation is felt, and is often

accompanied by dry mouth and thick saliva.

Moderate dehydration occurs when fluid losses equal 6–9% of their body weight.

This can occur rapidly in young children who are vomiting and/or have diarrhea.

In an infant, a loss of as little as 2–3 cups of liquids can result in moderate

dehydration. Signs of moderate dehydration include intense thirst, severely

reduced urine production, sunken eyes, headache, dizziness, irritability, and

decreased activity.

Severe dehydration occurs when fluid losses are 10% or more of their body

weight. Severe dehydration is a medical emergency for individuals of any age. A

loss of fluids equaling 20% of a person's body weight is fatal. Signs of severe

dehydration include all those of moderate dehydration as well as lack of

sweating, little or no urine production, dry skin that has little elasticity,

low blood pressure, rapid heartbeat, fever, delirium, or coma.

Diagnosis

Dehydration is diagnosed by physical symptoms. A healthcare professional or

observant adult can usually tell by looking at someone that they are moderately

or severely dehydrated. Blood tests and a urinalysis may be done to check for

electrolyte imbalances and to determine if the kidneys are damaged. However,

visual signs are enough to begin treatment.

Treatment

The goal of treatment is to restore fluid and electrolyte balance. For

individuals with mild dehydration, this can be done in infants and children by

giving them oral rehydration solutions such as Pedialyte, Infa-lyte, Naturalyte,

Oralyte, or Rehydralyte. These are available in supermarkets and pharmacies

without a prescription. These solutions have the proper balance of salts and

sugars to restore the electrolyte balance. Water, apple juice, chicken broth,

sodas, and similar fluids are effective in treating mild dehydration. Oral

rehydration fluids can be given young children in small sips as soon as vomiting

and diarrhea start. They may continue to vomit and have diarrhea, but some of

the fluid will be absorbed. Breastfed infants should continue to nurse on

demand. Babies who are formula fed should continue to get their regular formula

unless directed otherwise by a pediatrician.

Older children who are dehydrated can be given oral rehydration solutions or

sports drinks such as Gatorade for moderate and severe dehydration, otherwise

general fluids are fine. Athletes who are dehydrated should be given sports

drinks. According to the American College of Sports Medicine, sports drinks are

effective in supplying energy for muscles, maintaining blood sugar levels,

preventing dehydration, and replacing electrolytes lost in sweat. Adults who are

mildly or moderately dehydrated usually improve by drinking water and avoiding

coffee, tea, and soft drinks that do not contain caffeine.

Individuals of all ages who are seriously dehydrated need to be treated by a

medical professional. In the case of severe dehydration, the individual may be

hospitalized and fluids given intravenously (IV; directly into the vein).

Nutrition/Dietetic concerns

Dehydration is usually an acute condition, and once fluid balance is restored,

there are no additional nutritional concerns. In the mobility-impaired elderly,

the main concern is making sure that they have adequate access to fluids.

Prognosis

Most people recover from dehydration with few complications so long as

rehydration fluids are available and treatment begins before the condition

becomes severe. However, severe dehydration can be fatal.

>

> Again-- I might suggest that these children died from COMPLICATIONS

> associated with the flu.

>

> Complications such as dehydration perhaps--- which, if taken care of, the

> child will survive and thrive.

>

>

[Guest guest]

you're correct. Here's another scenario-- What about a family who lost

their only 5 yr old daughter (and only grandchild on both sides) due to death

from a vaccine?

Either way-- the alternatives to most of these vaccines are just outright

dangerous-- on either side

Bek

In a message dated 5/3/2009 12:37:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

mosense@... writes:

seems like just semantics here---the family that I know in my sons school

lost their only child to the flu or complications from the flu--no matter

what its called--they still lost their one and only child.

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[Guest guest]

thats sad....is there proof from a credible source that she died from a

vaccine???? was it listed on the death cert? wasnt that the criteria often used

here? whats the cause of death listed on the death cert??

>

> death

> from a vaccine?

>

>>

> Bek

>

>

> In a message dated 5/3/2009 12:37:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

>

[Guest guest]

Well-- the child received the shot and immediately went into anaphalactyc

(I know I just butchered the spelling on that) shock. Definitely the

vaccine. She died right there in the office. I never asked the parents or

grandparents about the death certificate-- thought it might be inappropriate

at

the time. I'm not sure if they've started talking about it more or not--

another very sad and local thing that has happened to a friend's son that

just makes me want to cry.

The little boy goes to therapy with my son at the same ctr of Child Dev and

it had been a while since I had seen them due to schedule changes (theirs)

and so on. I ran into her about 2 mos ago and I asked how she was doing--

etc. It was obvious looking at the boy that something had happened. Now--

just to give you his story quickly-- he was born a preemie-- and was

developmentally delayed. Other than that-- he would be fine once he got up to

speed. Of course, if I'm not mistaken-- due to being a preemie, he would have

a pre-disposition to things affecting him neurologically speaking.

(according to some people's beliefs-- but most Drs don't admit this I don't

think).

But anyway-- the child went into the Ped's office and was on a delayed

Vax schedule already-- the Dr pushed the MMR vaccine and the mother was VERY

hesitant. she was told that they no longer accept patients in their office

who don't vaccinate. So it was sort of forcing her hand a little, I think.

The child received the MMR vax-- and within an hour or two started having

seizures and there's never been any going back since then!! They've gotten

pretty bad, and now they're talking surgery to possibly stop the seizures.

The Ped said to the mom that the vaccine did NOT cause the seizures-- and

yet-- they started right after the shot. Hmmmm

He did say that there was an underlying condition that the child might h

ave that would cause a reaction to the vaccine. But hmmmm-- a preemie and a

child that was already Dev delayed? Of COURSE that's a predisposition that

should keep them alert about a bad reaction.

It's absolutely heartbreaking-- because she's a friend. Not a CLOSE one-

but still a friend and acquaintance. She feels horrible of course. She had

even went back into the Ped's office that same day and told them " look what

the shot did " . Heartbreaking--

I'm hoping to talk with her soon-- because I wonder if possibly getting rid

of the mercury from the vaccine might possibly improve his condition.

Better to try that than to get surgery to remove part of his brain.

:-(

Now-- the worst part about all of this--- bear with me-- Her Ped is *MY*

Ped!!!!! No-- we don't vaccinate-- at all. Back when Asa was hospitalized

for the onset of the diabetes, the Ped (one of the main partners who I work

with all the time with the kids) came to me and told me that the new policy

in the office is to no longer accept patients who don't vaccinate. But the

senior partners all got together and discussed MY family in particular and

the comment that the 2 brought up was " To kick them out is like kicking

out our own family " . So they as the senior partners, decided they would allow

only MY family to remain in the practice without vaccinating as long as we

signed the waiver releasing them.

Talk about feeling like crap-- here's my friend who was all but forced to

vaxx her child if she wanted to stay with the Ped, while they allow me not

to vaxx my kids. I felt horrible-- and still do.

And yet-- I can't, because I know that my kids are predisposed big time to

any affects, and thankfully it's become evident to the Dr's that I've not

made this decision lightly. We've been there 16 yrs or so--and the one Dr

really *IS* like family to us.

It's all a very sad situation

Bek

In a message dated 5/4/2009 9:30:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

mosense@... writes:

thats sad....is there proof from a credible source that she died from a

vaccine???? was it listed on the death cert? wasnt that the criteria often

used here? whats the cause of death listed on the death cert??

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[Guest guest]

Than, by the logic you provided us about the flu- that poor child died of

COMPLICATIONS from a vaccine--you cannot say she died of the vaccine if we

cannot say the child that I know died of the flu.

>

> Well-- the child received the shot and immediately went into anaphalactyc

> shock.

Again-- I might suggest that these children died from COMPLICATIONS

associated with the flu.

[Guest guest]

I had a serious life-threatening reaction from the DT vaccine (the one that is

given in the 10th grade). A lot of wild things happened and I can remember

trying to open the car door and " JUMP " out after leaving the health department!!

The reaction was reported, but funny they have absolutely NO RECORD of it to

this day at the health department.

I almost died, and I can remember some WILD behavior (maybe seizure-like?)

happening. My temperature shot way up and then I remember being VERY COLD. I

remember shouting, and then feeling an intense hunger and then the next second

feeling a sensation of vomitting. I even saw what I call " sun spots " (looks like

when you go outside in BRIGHT sun and then come back inside and all you see is

large spots and basically you cannot see.) I do not take vaccines anymore

because of that. That happened nearly 30 years ago and I can still remember it

like it was yesterday. It was real scarey.

[Guest guest]

I'm about the same age as you and I do remember getting shots in HS---but just

like vaccines now--anybody can have a reaction to them. I got a tetanus in

college when I stepped on a rake--but they only do those if you need one.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002021.htm

The DT and Td vaccines are being replaced most of the time by DTaP or Tdap

vaccines.

Tetanus vaccine (T vaccine) can be given as a single vaccine, but this is not

generally available. It is also injected, usually into the arm. T vaccine or a

Td booster may be given to an adult receiving care for a wound or injury that

breaks the skin. Typically, a booster is given if the wound is dirty and the

last Td booster was given more than 5 years prior to the injury.

DTaP vaccination is one of the recommended childhood immunizations. DTaP vaccine

can be safely given to infants. Five DTaP vaccines are recommended. They are

usually given to children at ages 2 months, 4 months, 6 months, 15-18 months,

and 4-6 years. DTaP immunization is generally required before a child can start

school.

After the initial series of immunizations, a Tdap vaccine should be given around

age 11 or 12, and every 10 years thereafter. This vaccine provides further

protection against tetanus diphtheria, and pertussis, and is used as a booster.

DTaP is recommended unless there is a reason that the child should not receive

the pertussis vaccine (such as allergic reaction), in which case a vaccine

against diphtheria and tetanus (DT vaccine) should only be given.

RISKS AND SIDE EFFECTS

DTaP may cause the following mild side effects, which usually only last a few

days:

Fever

Crankiness

Soreness at the injection site

Vomiting

Decreased appetite

Some health care providers recommend taking one dose of acetaminophen (Tylenol)

just before getting the vaccine to help avoid common, minor side effects. A

warm, damp cloth or a heating pad may help reduce soreness. Frequently moving or

using the arm or leg that has received the injection is recommended and often

reduces the soreness.

Moderate to serious reactions are uncommon. They may include:

Non-stop crying for more than 3 hours (1 in 1000 children)

Fever over 105 degrees (1 in 16,000 children)

Seizures (1 in 14,000 children)

Severe reactions are extremely rare, but may include severe allergic reaction

such as breathing difficulties and shock. Such reactions occur in less than 1

per 1,000,000 children. Long-term seizures and brain damage are so rare that the

association with vaccine is questionable.

Usually, a child who has had a problem with the DTaP vaccine can safely receive

the Td vaccine.

CONSIDERATIONS

Fever of 105 degrees or higher within 2 days after the vaccine is given

Shock or collapse within 2 days after the vaccine is given

Persistent, uncontrolled crying that lasts for more than 3 hours at a time after

the vaccine is given

CALL YOUR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER IF:

You are not sure if your child should get the DTaP immunization

Complications or severe symptoms develop after DTaP immunization

Other symptoms develop after DTaP immunization

>

> I had a serious life-threatening reaction from the DT vaccine (the one that is

given in the 10th grade).

[Guest guest]

Well-- actually, if a child is receiving a live virus vaccine-- they

INDEED could very well be dying BECAUSE of the vaccine, or even the virus.

This is part of the problem with the lack of knowledge on how these

things affect the kids. It could be the live virus that kills them, or it

could

be the toxic overload-- etc-- but that IS the vaccine itself-- so I

disagree with your statement.

A child wouldn't have an allergic reaction to the virus-- but they WOULD

have an allergic reaction to the vaccine. So they could die from the vaccine.

But your point is well taken-- I just don't agree. :-)

Bek

In a message dated 5/5/2009 8:44:22 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

mosense@... writes:

Than, by the logic you provided us about the flu- that poor child died of

COMPLICATIONS from a vaccine--you cannot say she died of the vaccine if we

cannot say the child that I know died of the flu.

**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy

steps!

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=May5509AvgfooterNO115)

[Guest guest]

I have a question for you all. My son got a notice from his school nurse stating

that he is due for this shot before he can enter school next fall for 5th grade.

He will be 11 in July. Should he have this shot? He is fully immunized and up to

date on all shots at this point. No adverse reactions to any so far. Not even a

mild one. DTAP is the one listed he needs.

Thank you in advance.

 

jeanne and

NH

From: Maureen <mosense@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: Flu responses

Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 1:50 PM

I'm about the same age as you and I do remember getting shots in HS---but just

like vaccines now--anybody can have a reaction to them. I got a tetanus in

college when I stepped on a rake--but they only do those if you need one.

http://www.nlm. nih.gov/medlinep lus/ency/ article/002021. htm

The DT and Td vaccines are being replaced most of the time by DTaP or Tdap

vaccines.

Tetanus vaccine (T vaccine) can be given as a single vaccine, but this is not

generally available. It is also injected, usually into the arm. T vaccine or a

Td booster may be given to an adult receiving care for a wound or injury that

breaks the skin. Typically, a booster is given if the wound is dirty and the

last Td booster was given more than 5 years prior to the injury.

DTaP vaccination is one of the recommended childhood immunizations. DTaP vaccine

can be safely given to infants. Five DTaP vaccines are recommended. They are

usually given to children at ages 2 months, 4 months, 6 months, 15-18 months,

and 4-6 years. DTaP immunization is generally required before a child can start

school.

After the initial series of immunizations, a Tdap vaccine should be given around

age 11 or 12, and every 10 years thereafter. This vaccine provides further

protection against tetanus diphtheria, and pertussis, and is used as a booster.

DTaP is recommended unless there is a reason that the child should not receive

the pertussis vaccine (such as allergic reaction), in which case a vaccine

against diphtheria and tetanus (DT vaccine) should only be given.

RISKS AND SIDE EFFECTS

DTaP may cause the following mild side effects, which usually only last a few

days:

Fever

Crankiness

Soreness at the injection site

Vomiting

Decreased appetite

Some health care providers recommend taking one dose of acetaminophen (Tylenol)

just before getting the vaccine to help avoid common, minor side effects. A

warm, damp cloth or a heating pad may help reduce soreness. Frequently moving or

using the arm or leg that has received the injection is recommended and often

reduces the soreness.

Moderate to serious reactions are uncommon. They may include:

Non-stop crying for more than 3 hours (1 in 1000 children)

Fever over 105 degrees (1 in 16,000 children)

Seizures (1 in 14,000 children)

Severe reactions are extremely rare, but may include severe allergic reaction

such as breathing difficulties and shock. Such reactions occur in less than 1

per 1,000,000 children. Long-term seizures and brain damage are so rare that the

association with vaccine is questionable.

Usually, a child who has had a problem with the DTaP vaccine can safely receive

the Td vaccine.

CONSIDERATIONS

Fever of 105 degrees or higher within 2 days after the vaccine is given

Shock or collapse within 2 days after the vaccine is given

Persistent, uncontrolled crying that lasts for more than 3 hours at a time after

the vaccine is given

CALL YOUR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER IF:

You are not sure if your child should get the DTaP immunization

Complications or severe symptoms develop after DTaP immunization

Other symptoms develop after DTaP immunization

>

> I had a serious life-threatening reaction from the DT vaccine (the one that is

given in the 10th grade).

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/6/2009 7:48:03 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

mosense@... writes:

you or who ever the mom happened to be would be begging for help to save

your child and the doctors would tell the parents that theres nothing more

we can do because you said no to everything that may have helped your child

fight!!!!!

======

(this is being written in a friendly but not agreeing tone)

Wow that's harsh. We who choose not to or selective vaccinations are

trying to do what's best for our children. Each case is different depending on

the child. There will always be a situation of doctors telling you

there's nothing they can do whether you choose to do that or not. That's why

there is a fund to give parents money when their children are hurt FROM the

shots. In college there was a women in my class who lost her grandson

because of getting vaccines. It can go both ways. When my dad was still alive

and fighting Leukemia. His doctors wouldn't let him go out to the base when

they were doing there mass vaccinations because he could get sick from them

and just being around people who got the small pox vaccine. There are pros

a cons to everything. But trying to use guilt to make a parent choose

isn't fair. Which is what a lot of doctors do when pushing parents to

vaccinate. You have to research for yourself and weight your options. Which

is

why a lot of us are here. To find out what we can do that would be best for

our child.

**************Big savings on Dell’s most popular laptops. Now starting at

$449!

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[Guest guest]

Than children die because of the flu--no other reason.Not the shot-the flu and

not vaccines- the flu itself!! Not complications associated with it. The 7yr old

in my sons school died because of the flu!!! He had asthma that was well

controlled- but he did NOT have a flu shot! If he had- he may have had the

immunity to fight off the flu once he got it. But he didnt- so when he got the

flu and his parents did not wait till morning because they were too busy or

ignore the signs that said medical attention was necessary!!

I saw this little boy on a Friday night. He got very sick that Sunday. This was

the middle of winter in February in NY!!! By Tuesday he was gone....he did have

the flu and yes he died because of the flu and if he had the shot---kids like

him and like my daughter with weakened immune systems would be better prepared

to fight off a severe asthma attack.I did not give my oldest son the flu shot

because he is able to fight it off on his own--without numerous supplements.

I'm not saying there are not children who have reactions to the flu shot--but

they are so few and far between that I will take my chances that its going to

protect my daughter more than it will ever, ever hurt her!!!!

>

> Well-- actually, if a child is receiving a live virus vaccine-- they

> INDEED could very well be dying BECAUSE of the vaccine, or even the virus.

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Bek,

All vaccines are modified live, which means they contain a weakened live virus

and some dead virus. I think most people are not aware of this.

>

> Well-- actually, if a child is receiving a live virus vaccine-- they

> INDEED could very well be dying BECAUSE of the vaccine, or even the virus.

>

> This is part of the problem with the lack of knowledge on how these

> things affect the kids. It could be the live virus that kills them, or it

could

> be the toxic overload-- etc-- but that IS the vaccine itself-- so I

> disagree with your statement.

>

> A child wouldn't have an allergic reaction to the virus-- but they WOULD

> have an allergic reaction to the vaccine. So they could die from the vaccine.

>

> But your point is well taken-- I just don't agree. :-)

>

> Bek

>

>

> In a message dated 5/5/2009 8:44:22 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> mosense@... writes:

>

> Than, by the logic you provided us about the flu- that poor child died of

> COMPLICATIONS from a vaccine--you cannot say she died of the vaccine if we

> cannot say the child that I know died of the flu.

>

>

> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy

> steps!

>

(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://\

www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072 & hmpgID=115 & bcd

> =May5509AvgfooterNO115)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You have two choices. One, you give the shot. Or, two (the one they won't tell

you), you have the right to sign a waiver saying you are against the

vaccine/shot and have it notarized and give it to the school. Then, they legally

cannot expel your child.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/6/2009 9:57:49 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

agirlnamedsuess@... writes:

I guess I was just trying to make sense of exactly what you were saying in

response to my post?

=====

Me? Mine was response to another person that I copied and pasted from.

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[Guest guest]

Its very sad to see that part of the problem is the lack of knowledge on how

these shots and vaccines can AND DO help the kids.

If a child without a flu shot or a vaccine ends up in the hospital--you or who

ever the mom happened to be would be begging for help to save your child and the

doctors would tell the parents that theres nothing more we can do because you

said no to everything that may have helped your child fight!!!!!

>

>> This is part of the problem with the lack of knowledge on how these

> things affect the kids.

[Guest guest]

It " is " sad that some people do not know the ingredients in vaccines, many of

which people (me, for one) are highly allergic to.

Here is a source to read some of he ingedients for each individual vaccine. It

also includes the manufacturer information (reliable source)

http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html

[Guest guest]

I am not sure exactly what you are trying to say?

I had an allergic reaction. They still give the tetanus vaccine as a combo,

whether you need it or not. So, I am not sure what you are meaning to say.

The reactions you listed are the " common " reactions, but not inclusive of " all "

possible reactions.

Although the tetanus vaccine is no longer made from horse serum, vaccines still

do contain chemicals which I personally am highly allergic to.

I guess I was just trying to make sense of exactly what you were saying in

response to my post?

[Guest guest]

I totally agree.THere are also cases were children whose parents have chosen

not to vaccinate their children contracted measles and in turn

infected infants that had not yet received the MMR vaccine due to age and

some of the infants died of complications from the measles.....many sides to

this issue and from a public health standpoint vaccines are more beneficial

than harmful, but I do agree that everybody should have a choice but should

be informed when making the choice and should be aware of all the

consequences.

anja

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 8:03 AM, Maureen <mosense@...> wrote:

>

>

> Its very sad to see that part of the problem is the lack of knowledge on

> how these shots and vaccines can AND DO help the kids.

>

> If a child without a flu shot or a vaccine ends up in the hospital--you or

> who ever the mom happened to be would be begging for help to save your child

> and the doctors would tell the parents that theres nothing more we can do

> because you said no to everything that may have helped your child fight!!!!!

>

>

>

> >

> >> This is part of the problem with the lack of knowledge on how these

> > things affect the kids.

>

>

>