Re: Sign language and Speech

[Guest guest]

XUN, I totaly disagree and I was hyped about this doctor UNTIL you said that one

comment. I think it has been said before, but " having language " at this age is

of vital importance. Without language, things are difficult.

Apraxia is a lifelong condition and if your child jst had developmental delay,

thn maybe that " theory " from this doctor would be correct. Sometimes, we do not

realize that medical doctors are practicing a science and they do not know

everything about every subject.

Research shows that sign language is a good bridge for communication in those

with apraxia and other speech disorders. Sign language helps cue the memory in

those with Apraxia.

With my child, he verbalizes and uses sign language. If he uses a sign without

verbalizing or approximating, then we tell him to use his words as well. I don't

see the problem? Sign language activates another part of the brain as well; it

is not learned in the damaged area. What is good about that is that once

learned, the information learned can spill over into other areas of the brain

and develop new neural pathways.(transference) This is what you want with

apraxic patients.(Build up other areas of the brain so that spillage will occur

into other areas to help language.) With that said, I think you need a second

opinion (BUT that is entirely up to you), as it " seems " this doctor knows little

about how the brain works in regards to apraxia. I did say " seems " (in case

anyone wants to jump on me for that comment), but personally, I do not see how

that doctor helped much by way of the apraxia. Was there other aspects you liked

about the doctor or other " helps " the doctor recommended that I am missing?

Just curious. P.S. Sign language is not effective for everyone, but if it has

been working, then why stop. With apraxia, you want " language " , " communication " ,

and " building on working brain parts in order to get 'transfrence' " .

-- In , " xunshao " <xunshao@...> wrote:

>

> My wife and I finally took the trip to Dr. Jonas's office this week and

have her check my 4 year old son and daughter's speech issues.

>

> The trip is well worth it and Dr. Jonas gave us a lot of good tips on how to

work with my kids to help them jump start their speech. Thank you, , for

recommending Dr. Jonas.

>

> One of the things that Dr. Jonas pointed out is that my kids, especially my

daughter, have been trained so much to use the sign language that they acquired

thru their ABA sessions so they are now less motivated to use speech. So she

wanted us to stop their sign language instruction.

>

> I know that there are two schools of thoughts here. Maybe she made a call

based on her exam of my kids. However, I would like to see how the parents on

this msg board's experience with sign language and whether it is definitely

impeding speech more than complement.

>

> Thx,

>

> Xun

>

[Guest guest]

My son is 2. I taught him sign before he was diagnosed with apraxia (about 12

months) b/c i saw that he wasn't speaking, and i wanted him to communicate

somehow. The started receiveing speech therapy through EI at 16 months. The

therapists and I always reinforced the signing with the sound, so if he's

singing for milk, he needs to try to produce the " m " sound or make an attempt. I

usually have to prompt him to make the sound, he dosn't do it on his own yet.

Although i must say that a few days after i started him the fish oil, he came up

to me, signed and said apple, which came out " ahh-pah " .

I have had people from both schools of thought tell me their opinion on signing.

From watching and observing my son, yes, he does sign more that attempt speech.

I think it becasue its become his first nature. And because he signs, I try to

reinforce the sound production. I kinda don't let him get away with just

signing. Just now he ran up to me and signed shoes (b/c he wanted to go

outside); I asked 'do you want your shoes'; he noddded his head; i said 'say

shoes'; he singed it again; i said say " shhhhh'; he produced the sound; i said

say'shhhh oooo'; and he gave the 'shhho'; i said goo trying and gave him his

shoes

I hoping that later he's sign and say the work b/c of the reinforcement. But i

will keep onteaching him more signs as the days go along, and keep on

reinfrocing the sounds. I feel that i really eased his frustration.

>

> My wife and I finally took the trip to Dr. Jonas's office this week and

have her check my 4 year old son and daughter's speech issues.

>

> The trip is well worth it and Dr. Jonas gave us a lot of good tips on how to

work with my kids to help them jump start their speech. Thank you, , for

recommending Dr. Jonas.

>

> One of the things that Dr. Jonas pointed out is that my kids, especially my

daughter, have been trained so much to use the sign language that they acquired

thru their ABA sessions so they are now less motivated to use speech. So she

wanted us to stop their sign language instruction.

>

> I know that there are two schools of thoughts here. Maybe she made a call

based on her exam of my kids. However, I would like to see how the parents on

this msg board's experience with sign language and whether it is definitely

impeding speech more than complement.

>

> Thx,

>

> Xun

>

[Guest guest]

I too have to disagree with what the doctor says about sign language. That is a

myth and many people including some doctors are not as up to date on these

issues as they should be. Sign language is a language and it stimulates the

brain like speech does. Many people like to put it back in the kids lap and say

they are not motivated or just don't want to talk or being lazy but let me tell

you, sign language is not an easy language to learn as some will try to say. I

can honestly say that the more my daughter uses sign language the more she uses

speech as well. What many don't explain is that for those who are visual

learners you can hold the signs a bit longer than the sound will last so they

have more time to process. We use sign and speak at the same time so Trisha

hears, sees and has time to process the words.

, I also disagree with the comment on the " just having DD " part as well,

signing is beneficial for those with DD just as much as those with Apraxia or

any other language disorder. Because signing does stimulate the brain similar

to speech it has made a large difference in many people with or without DD,

Apraxia, HOH etc.

As I mentioned before Trisha used all modes of communication. Many times her

verbalizations help us to understand the signs and the signs have helped us to

understand her verbalizations. We do not push one way or the other but instead

follow her lead but we do teach her all methods so she has many different ways

to communicate. Think of it being multi-lingual. Learning French would not

make a person not want to use or learn English well it's the same for signing.

There are so many myths out there regarding sign language and just because

someone is a doctor does not mean they are always up to date. I still have

people tell me that those with DS stop learning after 8 or so but I can attest

that is not true. Trisha is 17 and still learning.

Carol

From:

Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 2:35 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Sign language and Speech

XUN, I totaly disagree and I was hyped about this doctor UNTIL you said that

one comment. I think it has been said before, but " having language " at this age

is of vital importance. Without language, things are difficult.

Apraxia is a lifelong condition and if your child jst had developmental delay,

thn maybe that " theory " from this doctor would be correct. Sometimes, we do not

realize that medical doctors are practicing a science and they do not know

everything about every subject.

Research shows that sign language is a good bridge for communication in those

with apraxia and other speech disorders. Sign language helps cue the memory in

those with Apraxia.

With my child, he verbalizes and uses sign language. If he uses a sign without

verbalizing or approximating, then we tell him to use his words as well. I don't

see the problem? Sign language activates another part of the brain as well; it

is not learned in the damaged area. What is good about that is that once

learned, the information learned can spill over into other areas of the brain

and develop new neural pathways.(transference) This is what you want with

apraxic patients.(Build up other areas of the brain so that spillage will occur

into other areas to help language.) With that said, I think you need a second

opinion (BUT that is entirely up to you), as it " seems " this doctor knows little

about how the brain works in regards to apraxia. I did say " seems " (in case

anyone wants to jump on me for that comment), but personally, I do not see how

that doctor helped much by way of the apraxia. Was there other aspects you liked

about the doctor or other " helps " the doctor recommended that I am missing?

Just curious. P.S. Sign language is not effective for everyone, but if it has

been working, then why stop. With apraxia, you want " language " , " communication " ,

and " building on working brain parts in order to get 'transfrence' " .

-- In , " xunshao " <xunshao@...> wrote:

>

> My wife and I finally took the trip to Dr. Jonas's office this week

and have her check my 4 year old son and daughter's speech issues.

>

> The trip is well worth it and Dr. Jonas gave us a lot of good tips on how to

work with my kids to help them jump start their speech. Thank you, , for

recommending Dr. Jonas.

>

> One of the things that Dr. Jonas pointed out is that my kids, especially my

daughter, have been trained so much to use the sign language that they acquired

thru their ABA sessions so they are now less motivated to use speech. So she

wanted us to stop their sign language instruction.

>

> I know that there are two schools of thoughts here. Maybe she made a call

based on her exam of my kids. However, I would like to see how the parents on

this msg board's experience with sign language and whether it is definitely

impeding speech more than complement.

>

> Thx,

>

> Xun

>

[Guest guest]

Xun,

I am all for signing and have seen the benefits of it. Have you checked out

www.signingtime.com Many people with typical children use signs with them some

as early as 3-6 months old. Why people assume that signing will stop kids from

speaking is beyond me. Also, signing is not easier than speaking, it takes

motor planning for both. Also, if a child is having a hard time communicating

then signing has been known to help reduce frustration and encourage speech

because they know that they can make themselves understood. I find it amusing

how many people tried to tell me that signing wasn't good because 1. not

everyone in the world signed. (my answer, I'm not worried about everyone, I'm

more concerned that she has a way to communicate to those closest to her. 2.

She doesn't sign perfectly and no one will understand her. My answer, people

don't speak perfectly so do we tell them they can't speak? 3. She won't learn

to speak if she uses sign. My answer, she's not learning to speak without it.

4. She will be different if she signs. My answer, hello! She has Down

Syndrome, Autism, HOH etc. She already is different. Now what have these same

people learned. They learned Trisha is understood by those fluent in sign about

80-85% of the time, she is vocalizing more and more words, and as those working

with her know her better they learn her sign approximations or verbal

approximation and when they can't understand either then that is where her

communication device comes in. I'm not a doctor but having been and heard all

of this for many years I can honestly say those who tell you not to use sign are

the ones I would run as fast as I can away from. Just my personal opinion.

Carol

Trishasmom

She isn't typical, She's Trisha!

From: xunshao

Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 12:04 PM

Subject: [ ] Sign language and Speech

My wife and I finally took the trip to Dr. Jonas's office this week and

have her check my 4 year old son and daughter's speech issues.

The trip is well worth it and Dr. Jonas gave us a lot of good tips on how to

work with my kids to help them jump start their speech. Thank you, , for

recommending Dr. Jonas.

One of the things that Dr. Jonas pointed out is that my kids, especially my

daughter, have been trained so much to use the sign language that they acquired

thru their ABA sessions so they are now less motivated to use speech. So she

wanted us to stop their sign language instruction.

I know that there are two schools of thoughts here. Maybe she made a call

based on her exam of my kids. However, I would like to see how the parents on

this msg board's experience with sign language and whether it is definitely

impeding speech more than complement.

Thx,

Xun

[Guest guest]

Signing does not work for us, but we had similar concerns with AAC. From what

I understand, all the studies show that both signing and AAC accelerate

language.

sl

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which

it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged

material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking

of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other

than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please

contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.

Sharon Lang

>

> >

>

> > My wife and I finally took the trip to Dr.

> Jonas's office this week and have her check my 4 year

> old son and daughter's speech issues.

>

> >

>

> > The trip is well worth it and Dr. Jonas gave us a lot

> of good tips on how to work with my kids to help them jump

> start their speech. Thank you, , for recommending Dr.

> Jonas.

>

> >

>

> > One of the things that Dr. Jonas pointed out is that

> my kids, especially my daughter, have been trained so much

> to use the sign language that they acquired thru their ABA

> sessions so they are now less motivated to use speech. So

> she wanted us to stop their sign language instruction.

>

> >

>

> > I know that there are two schools of thoughts here.

> Maybe she made a call based on her exam of my kids.

> However, I would like to see how the parents on this msg

> board's experience with sign language and whether it is

> definitely impeding speech more than complement.

>

> >

>

> > Thx,

>

> >

>

> > Xun

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I completely agree with this line of thinking.

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which

it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged

material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking

of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other

than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please

contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.

Sharon Lang

> From: csvillars <Csvillars@...>

> Subject: Re: [ ] Sign language and Speech

>

> Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 6:46 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Xun,

>

>

>

> I am all for signing and have seen the benefits of it.

> Have you checked out www.signingtime. com Many people with

> typical children use signs with them some as early as 3-6

> months old. Why people assume that signing will stop kids

> from speaking is beyond me. Also, signing is not easier

> than speaking, it takes motor planning for both. Also, if a

> child is having a hard time communicating then signing has

> been known to help reduce frustration and encourage speech

> because they know that they can make themselves understood.

> I find it amusing how many people tried to tell me that

> signing wasn't good because 1. not everyone in the

> world signed. (my answer, I'm not worried about

> everyone, I'm more concerned that she has a way to

> communicate to those closest to her. 2. She doesn't

> sign perfectly and no one will understand her. My answer,

> people don't speak perfectly so do we tell them they

> can't speak? 3. She won't learn to speak if she

> uses sign. My answer, she's not learning to speak

> without it. 4. She will be different if she signs. My

> answer, hello! She has Down Syndrome, Autism, HOH etc. She

> already is different. Now what have these same people

> learned. They learned Trisha is understood by those fluent

> in sign about 80-85% of the time, she is vocalizing more and

> more words, and as those working with her know her better

> they learn her sign approximations or verbal approximation

> and when they can't understand either then that is where

> her communication device comes in. I'm not a doctor but

> having been and heard all of this for many years I can

> honestly say those who tell you not to use sign are the ones

> I would run as fast as I can away from. Just my personal

> opinion.

>

>

>

> Carol

>

> Trishasmom

>

> She isn't typical, She's Trisha!

>

>

>

> From: xunshao

>

> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 12:04 PM

>

>

> @groups. com

>

> Subject: [childrensapraxiane t] Sign language and Speech

>

>

>

> My wife and I finally took the trip to Dr.

> Jonas's office this week and have her check my 4 year

> old son and daughter's speech issues.

>

>

>

> The trip is well worth it and Dr. Jonas gave us a lot of

> good tips on how to work with my kids to help them jump

> start their speech. Thank you, , for recommending Dr.

> Jonas.

>

>

>

> One of the things that Dr. Jonas pointed out is that my

> kids, especially my daughter, have been trained so much to

> use the sign language that they acquired thru their ABA

> sessions so they are now less motivated to use speech. So

> she wanted us to stop their sign language instruction.

>

>

>

> I know that there are two schools of thoughts here. Maybe

> she made a call based on her exam of my kids. However, I

> would like to see how the parents on this msg board's

> experience with sign language and whether it is definitely

> impeding speech more than complement.

>

>

>

> Thx,

>

>

>

> Xun

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Carol, I agree with what you said, but what I was trying to say about DD was

that if the doctor thought that was the diagnosis or simply that the child was a

late talker, then I could see the assumption that it would " maybe " (I did say

maybe..I had to go back and read what I wrote to understand wha you meant) be

" replacing " the speech and then the doctor " thought " there would not be a delay

if the childwas not being taught another way.

I totally disagree with the doctor either way. But I did not want to be the one

to be attacked here by disagreeing with someone with a medical degree,as I was

in another posting.

I personally think doctors and some speech therapists just do not have the

experience to know SL works and how languages are processed in the brain. There

is documented evidence that sign language works for babies that have no speech

problems as well and it does not delay their talking. (As a matter of fact, it

raises their IQ by at least 15 points!)

Any language that is second to the primary language is beneficial in the brain.

But assuming that all of our kids here ar having issues with sounds, one might

run into the same sound production issues with another " verbal " language (like

French or Japanese). Since sign language is a nonverbal language in itself, it

is " perhaps " (I said Perhaps easier for an apraxic child to learn and easier

for the parents to understand along with the vocalizations the child is making.

However, signs are difficult to learn. Some signs are so close that you may

accidentally be saying something else when you intend to say something different

(did that make sense?) So, a child has to learn sign as a language in order to

understand the context of what is being said.

I will say that second languages or languages in general are more difficult for

some than others. Languages are easier (not easy,st easier) for my family;

whereas, the ' family may have difficulty with learning another language.

> >

> > My wife and I finally took the trip to Dr. Jonas's office this week

and have her check my 4 year old son and daughter's speech issues.

> >

> > The trip is well worth it and Dr. Jonas gave us a lot of good tips on how

to work with my kids to help them jump start their speech. Thank you, , for

recommending Dr. Jonas.

> >

> > One of the things that Dr. Jonas pointed out is that my kids, especially

my daughter, have been trained so much to use the sign language that they

acquired thru their ABA sessions so they are now less motivated to use speech.

So she wanted us to stop their sign language instruction.

> >

> > I know that there are two schools of thoughts here. Maybe she made a call

based on her exam of my kids. However, I would like to see how the parents on

this msg board's experience with sign language and whether it is definitely

impeding speech more than complement.

> >

> > Thx,

> >

> > Xun

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I second the motion.Can we move for a vote? :0))))

Carol, I like those responses. Mind if I write them down so I can use them?

>

>

> I completely agree with this line of thinking.

[Guest guest]

-Sharon, Some people get AAC's to " substitute " speech for their nonspeaking

child. For us, herein is where the problem lies because we got this for a

temporary learning device and not a permanent communication device. I still have

my reservations about the AAC (at least the one I have and you know all about

that already)

In , sharon lang <flipperlang@...> wrote:

>

>

> Signing does not work for us, but we had similar concerns with AAC. From

what I understand, all the studies show that both signing and AAC accelerate

language.

>

>

> sl

> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which

it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged

material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking

of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other

than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please

contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.

>

>

>

> Sharon Lang

[Guest guest]

We used sign for Tanner when he was in preschool and still essentially nonverbal

-simple sign is all we needed to use and then Tanner started to get verbal and

of course that's the direction we went in. Tanner didn't use sign once he

started talking -and by the time he was Xun's child age he didn't need it

anymore.

For those that don't know the whole situation which really would be nobody here

but Xun and Dr. Jonas -please don't jump to conclusions based upon statements

being shared by Xun. From what I read Renai is seeing something in Xun's child

that may be a secondary psychological aspect due to the ABA therapy -but what do

I know -what does any of us know yet? I know from Tanner that Renai is not anti

sign -but I do know for a fact that Renai is firmly against ABA therapy for a

child that is apraxic unless it's absolutely not used for anything that has to

do with the motor planning aspect. So for all any of us know (and I didn't

speak to her about it) this has more to do with breaking a negative pattern set

by the ABA -which may have been inappropriate. The goal is to get Xun's child

verbal if possible -and I know for a fact that Renai has brought words to

children that were nonverbal with any other method.

I highly respect Renai -and if she's working with a 4 year old child -who may or

may not have been misdiagnosed prior to seeing Renai; who may or may not have

received appropriate therapies up to seeing Renai...she may have work to do.

Save your comments until after you give the woman a chance!

At the time there were those that watched the woman that brought words to Helen

Keller that didn't agree with her methods either. Let her try what it is she is

trying to do. In the meantime I can tell all of you that while we used simple

sign for Tanner and I was upset that his out of district preschool The Summit

Speech School discouraged sign (as the theory is that a deaf child that doesn't

speak by 5 will never speak but one can learn to sign at any age) it clearly

didn't have a negative effect on Tanner. Tanner stopped using sign as he

started to speak.

Here's an archive about sign:

Re: question about sign

From The Late Talker book St 's Press 2003

THE CASE FOR SIGN LANGUAGE

There has been considerable debate over the merits of teaching sign

language to non-verbal children. Some parents believe that it takes

away from the primary goal of getting their child to become vocal.

Their fear is that the child will become dependent on sign language

and unmotivated to acquire speech. Most speech experts are totally

in favor of the introduction of signing as early as possible because

it helps build vocabulary, reduces frustration, and expands

expressive language. Research indicates that signing is a stepping-

stone—albeit a very important one—on the way to speech. As the

child's ability to vocalize increases, signing falls by the wayside.

The signs are not an alternative to speech, but a method of helping

the child discover speech.

Sign language can be simple or complex. Most late-talking children

develop their own sign language, which is understood by their

immediate family, and which should be encouraged so they develop

enough key signs to make their basic needs known. Carnell

told us that when her son was two-and-a-half-years-old, and

still only saying one or two words, he and his parents learned how

to sign. " He picked it up very fast and his demeanor quickly

changed. Now that he had a way to communicate he was becoming a

happy, carefree child, " she remembers. " I cried the night I walked

into his room and saw him signing in his sleep. " Beyond late talkers

there is even a growing movement to teach sign language or " symbolic

gesturing " to all babies, so they can communicate at an earlier age

than has been considered the norm.

PICTURE EXCHANGE COMMUNICATION SYSTEM (PECS)

Another non-verbal mode of communication is picture exchange in

which illustrations are used instead of words. All the child has to

do is point at a picture icon to make himself understood. At its

most simple, you put together a book of picture symbols for your

child to carry with him. You let him decide the contents. One page

can be for breakfast items, another page for lunch, one for dinner,

one for drinks and desserts, and so forth. You can have pages of

faces showing different feelings, and pages for activities such as

reading a book, going to the park or the library, visiting

relatives, friends or the doctor, and going to the bathroom!

There are many places to find pictures. Online grocery stores like

www.netgrocer.com are ideal for food items, as are the Sunday

newspaper's coupon section and magazines. You can take photos, or

purchase picture cards from a number of sources. If you wish,

laminate the pictures to protect and strengthen them; glue food and

drink choices onto self-adhesive magnets and attach to your

refrigerator. But there's more to PECS than having a picture for a

glass of orange juice. It begins with the basic lesson that to get a

favorite item the child needs to hand over a picture of that item.

The child is then taught to create simple " sentences " such as, " I

want cookie. " From there, he learns to add clarity by using

attributes such as big/little, shape, position, and color. He also

discovers how to respond to simple questions, such as, " What do you

want? " before learning how to use the pictures to comment about

things around him: " I see a train! " " I hear a bird! " Many parents

(and some professionals) share the same concern expressed about sign

language; namely, that using a picture system inhibits speech

development. But there is no evidence of a negative outcome while

there is compelling support for the proposition that PECS encourages

speech.

From The Late Talker roughs

THE CASE FOR SIGN LANGUAGE

To sign or not to sign? There has been considerable debate by some

parents over the merits of teaching sign language to their nonverbal

children. Some parents believe that it takes away from the primary

goal of getting the child to become vocal. Their fear is that the

child will become dependent on sign language and therefore not be

motivated to acquire speech. Most speech experts are totally in

favor of the introduction of signing, and as early as possible. All

of the best research indicates that signing is but a stepping-stone—

albeit a very important one—on the way to speech. As the child's

ability to vocalize increases, signing falls by the wayside. Signing

is favored for many reasons. Among the most important:

IT BUILDS VOCABULARY. An essential element of an infant's

development is realizing that he can label things in the world

around him. Most children do so by attempting to speak the word. For

children who can't speak, signing not only gives them the

opportunity to show that they know what things are called; it also

helps them to learn more.

IT REDUCES TANTRUMS. With the acquisition of signs, the child

acquires the means to communicate. He can begin to make himself

understood, significantly reducing his frustration, which had

probably expressed itself in tears and tantrums. At the same time

your frustration is also decreased.

IT EXPANDS EXPRESSIVE LANGUAGE. Signing enables the child to acquire

expressive language, even if it is not spoken language. A child who

has difficulty producing the basic sounds of speech is at a distinct

disadvantage when it comes to learning how to string words together

in meaningful and correct sentences. Using sign gives that child a

way of exploring and mastering the development of language.

IT HELPS THE LISTENER. When used in tandem with a child's attempts

at speech, signing can greatly enhance the child's chance of being

understood. For instance, if a child is able to construct a three-

word sentence in which each word is an approximation, and therefore

not properly articulated, the listener may not comprehend what is

being said. Add sign to the vocal effort, and success is virtually

guaranteed.

IT REDUCES TEASING. It is less likely that a late-talker who signs

will be teased since the listener will assume that the child is

deaf, a more familiar condition which seems to inspire more

compassion.

As far as the human brain is concerned there's probably not as much

difference as you might think between spoken and sign communication.

A recent Canadian study using positron emission tomography (PET) to

peer inside the brain made a remarkable discovery. Scientists at

McGill University in Montreal found that deaf people—when signing—

activate the same regions of the brain as speakers without a hearing

problem.

These regions, the planum temporale and the left inferior frontal

cortex, had been associated with the processing of oral language.

But in a series of tests comparing eleven people with profound

deafness and ten people with normal hearing, blood flow was measured

within the brain and was very similar. Harvard University

neuroscientist, Dr. Caplan says that the findings support the

theory that humans have a hard-wired ability to understand language,

be it spoken or visual. "

The Late Talker St 's Press 2003

And from some recent archives on this:

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:37 pm

Subject: Re: Sign Language kiddietalk

Hey Girlfriend!

The story I have about sign language isn't as amazing as yours

(which was basically what replaced and became " the reason for sign "

for The Late Talker book's final version)

Tanner as I've posted only was taught simple signs, probably because

once on EFAs he started to be able to say simple words, and also

because the Summit Speech School even though it's for the hearing

impaired -acknowledged but didn't encourage the use of ASL in school

as much as verbal communication. The theory in the oral based

hearing impaired schools is that a deaf child who is nonverbal by 5

probably will never speak verbally -but one can learn to sign at any

age. While that theory worked for hearing impaired children -sign

for apraxic children is wonderful -but Summit Speech School in all

other ways was perfect. (again -Tanner has normal hearing -he was

just schooled for his preschool years at this school in out of

district placement and it was incredible for him and a vast amount

of other hearing apraxic children who like Tanner are also

mainstreamed and great students today)

One of the first simple signs taught to Tanner back then was the

word " more " To

say more in sign language you take all your fingertips and lightly

tap them together a few times.

Tanner was taught simple sign and simple picture exchange

communication for the same reasons as the other children here -at 2

to 4 he was essentially nonverbal and also during that time he

rarely smiled or showed any type of facial expression. Tanner for

the most part at 2 and 3 always had a blank look on his face so it

was hard to know just what he was thinking. Was he happy? What was

he thinking. At times it was hard, just so frustrating.

I mainly have the rare smile moments on the CHERAB site

Bottom of page here -classic " Tanner " look he was known for:

http://www.cherab.org/news/indexnews.html

This story happened during that period and right before or around

the time we first started the EFAs.

Tanner had a cold and I had just given him some kid flavored cold

medicine. As always I talked to him never expecting him to answer -

just one way conversations. I asked with a big smile " That's good

stuff huh?! " Tanner looked up and me with no expression as always.

Then he lifted up his hands toward me, took his fingertips and

started to tap them together. At first slow, then a bit faster. He

just kept tapping them together and staring up at me (probably

waiting for me to say something since I always said something!) But

there I was in shock -holding the spoon and staring at him " talking "

to me. You see -that was the first time that Tanner 'ever' talked

to me. And yes it was to me just as clear as if he said " I want

more "

I'll never forget I called everyone to share. To think of it today

I'm sure most of the people I called probably had not a clue why that

was such a profound moment to me -probably thought I was losing it.

You know what though - even today it's one of the most precious

moments.

And boy -how far we've come from then -now I have Tanner reading

about Granny Torrelli to me and we are discussing about Rosie's best

friend Baily who is visually impaired and why he had to go to a

different school then Rosie. How Tanner went to a different

preschool then most others...which reminds me.

Other than remembering he talked with his hands -does

bring up other stuff from when he was nonverbal that he remembers

today? For all of you with little kids that are still nonverbal -

just wait till they can talk, they'll blow you away with what they

recall and how they viewed it!

=====

[Guest guest]

Right. I believe that any means of getting the information out is priority,

whether it is typing, writing, aac, signing, or speech.

sl

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which

it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged

material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking

of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other

than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please

contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.

Sharon Lang

[Guest guest]

Sharon, Now how do you get the school to see this? I envision we will one day

get another IEP and get services from the school again. They kept listing his

" primary language " as " English " . That was our language, not his. Just trying to

solve the upcoming problems so it does not take another year in addition to the

one we have lost already. )

>

> Right. I believe that any means of getting the information out is priority,

whether it is typing, writing, aac, signing, or speech.

>

>

> sl

>

>

>

> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which

it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged

material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking

of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other

than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please

contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.

>

>

>

> Sharon Lang

>

[Guest guest]

We had to go to computer with her. She is excellent on the computer, advanced

actually. My hubby said to me that we should bring in the lap top and

demonstrate her abilities. The teacher was working on colors and letters etc.

I brought in the lap top and at age 5, she was doing 9 yo work. The teacher

about passed out.

I then said, now you see why she won't work for you. She is BORED. They just

think if you can't talk you have mr. In some cases this is true, but there is

also educable mr. i.e. mild. You want to atleast get your kid out of

moderate, severe, or prodund as they don't have to educate that population, as I

understand the law. I am not attorney or advocate, just a parent. This is how

I understand it to work from advocates and attorneys and special needs coaches I

have used.

If he can use a mouse, I have great programs for you

dttrainer

edmark reading 1 and 2

sound smart for ap issues

mayer johnson stuff is great too

time4learning

classroom suite

balanced literacy is a precursor to classroom suite.

Email me off list if you want more. We must have 100 software programs for her.

Yes, the school tried to say that she only knew the data on the dttrianer, that

she had memorized it. Even the psych tried to say that. I pulled the log and

showed she had not worked on that program in over 14 months...She must have a

perfect memory to be able to do all of age 3,4,5,6,7,8, and 9 yo work 14 months

ago and still be close to 100 percent on it. A few doe complaints and wins

helped too.

Hang in there, however he communicates, go with it.

sl

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which

it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged

material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking

of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other

than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please

contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.

Sharon Lang

> From: <agirlnamedsuess@...>

> Subject: [ ] Re: Sign language and Speech

>

> Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 10:42 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sharon, Now how do you get the school to see this?

> I envision we will one day get another IEP and get services

> from the school again. They kept listing his " primary

> language " as " English " . That was our

> language, not his. Just trying to solve the upcoming

> problems so it does not take another year in addition to the

> one we have lost already. )

>

>

>

> >

>

> > Right. I believe that any means of getting the

> information out is priority, whether it is typing, writing,

> aac, signing, or speech.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > sl

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > The information transmitted is intended only for the

> person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain

> confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any

> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or

> taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by

> persons or entities other than the intended recipient is

> prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the

> sender and delete the material from all computers.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Sharon Lang

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

From IDEA

 

Regulations: Part 300 / D / 300.324 / a / 2 / iv

(iv) Consider the communication needs of the child, and in the case of a child

who is deaf or hard of hearing, consider the child's language and communication

needs, opportunities for direct communications with peers and professional

personnel in the child's language and communication mode, academic level, and

full range of needs, including opportunities for direct instruction in the

child's language and communication mode

 

Regulations: Part 300 / A / 300.29 / a

(a) Native language, when used with respect to an individual who is limited

English proficient, means the following:

(1) The language normally used by that individual, or, in the case of a child,

the language normally used by the parents of the child, except as provided in

paragraph (a)(2) of this section.

(2) In all direct contact with a child (including evaluation of the child), the

language normally used by the child in the home or learning environment.

From: <agirlnamedsuess@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: Sign language and Speech

Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 10:42 PM

Sharon, Now how do you get the school to see this? I envision we will one day

get another IEP and get services from the school again. They kept listing his

" primary language " as " English " . That was our language, not his. Just trying to

solve the upcoming problems so it does not take another year in addition to the

one we have lost already. )

>

> Right. I believe that any means of getting the information out is priority,

whether it is typing, writing, aac, signing, or speech.

>

>

> sl

>

>

>

> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which

it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged

material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking

of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other

than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please

contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.

>

>

>

> Sharon Lang

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sharon. We have the catalogs for Mayer , Sunburst, Laureate,

etc...etc..., but what it all boils down to is the almighty $. Cannot afford

them right now.

Yes, he can use a mouse; eh...it is a little touchy sometimes and he has trouble

getting the mouse to the right place. I really wanted him to get that program

that helps train where to touch or where the mouse should go. I also wanted to

eventually get him a typing tutor CD (youngest one available) with a

" kid-friendly " keyboard (the big keys and limited keys).

Maybe soon. ?

Hey, you think I should write the DOE since the attorney is so

s-l-o-w? LOL

[Guest guest]

hanks jennifer for posting that for everyone. I have kwn this and have a

complete copy of IDEA in hand already. Problem is thatup until now, GAO has

failed to assist me (indigent family) and wehave been completely unable to find

an attorney to help us, even one who was " not " PRO BONO. This fight has been

going on for 5 years about getting service for him. And now with attorney, they

are so S-L-O-W. Geez this started last year. I am starting to really wonder

whose side they are on here.

>

> From IDEA

>  

> Regulations: Part 300 / D / 300.324 / a / 2 / iv

> (iv) Consider the communication needs of the child, and in the case of a child

who is deaf or hard of hearing, consider the child's language and communication

needs, opportunities for direct communications with peers and professional

personnel in the child's language and communication mode, academic level, and

full range of needs, including opportunities for direct instruction in the

child's language and communication mode

>  

> Regulations: Part 300 / A / 300.29 / a

>

> (a) Native language, when used with respect to an individual who is limited

English proficient, means the following:

> (1) The language normally used by that individual, or, in the case of a child,

the language normally used by the parents of the child, except as provided in

paragraph (a)(2) of this section.

> (2) In all direct contact with a child (including evaluation of the child),

the language normally used by the child in the home or learning environment.

[Guest guest]

We had an EI SLP that suggested signing when my 7dd was barely 1yr old. we

started with the easiest and most useful ones like more, eat, go, mama. she

picked them up very fast and so did I. I never took a class in signing. I can

assure you by the time she was 3- we had 200 signs between the two of us!

She was dx with Severe Apraxia at just over 4yrs old by a Ped Neurologist. He

suggest an AAC evaluation as a way to reduce frustration in communicating the

words, phrases that a typical 4yr old would be saying---NOT as a substitute to

talking! Any one that was told it was a substitute for speaking has a very, very

bad SLP- (thanks ). No one...not the doctors or the Rehabilitation Hospital

that did the evaluation--- never, ever even once said signing or AAC were meant

to substitute talking!!

I've said this here before but for those new to the group---when she would sign

to me in public as a 3yr old---the only reaction I got from parents, other kids

was they were so very impressed that SHE had a skill they knew nothing about and

I had to translate for her to tell them what she said. It helped them see her in

a whole different way!

Now we have a fancy schmancy AAC device that her and my other kids use to play

her music on. We loaded a bunch of Raffi music that she loves. She does not

bring it to school and she stopped signing over two years ago. As soon as she

had a word for a sign- she stopped using it!! Now she only reverts to sign if

she sees I dont understand her.

>

> We used sign for Tanner when he was in preschool and still essentially

nonverbal -simple sign is all we needed to use and then Tanner started to get

verbal and of course that's the direction we went in. Tanner didn't use sign

once he started talking -and by the time he was Xun's child age he didn't need

it anymore.

>

>

[Guest guest]

, did you apply to united healthcare kids foundation for a grant???

sharon

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which

it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged

material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking

of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other

than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please

contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.

Sharon Lang

> From: <agirlnamedsuess@...>

> Subject: [ ] Re: Sign language and Speech

>

> Date: Friday, April 10, 2009, 9:57 AM

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Thanks Sharon. We have the catalogs for Mayer

> , Sunburst, Laureate, etc...etc... , but what it all

> boils down to is the almighty $. Cannot afford them right

> now.

>

> Yes, he can use a mouse; eh...it is a little touchy

> sometimes and he has trouble getting the mouse to the right

> place. I really wanted him to get that program that helps

> train where to touch or where the mouse should go. I also

> wanted to eventually get him a typing tutor CD (youngest one

> available) with a " kid-friendly " keyboard (the big

> keys and limited keys).

>

> Maybe soon. ?

>

> Hey, you think I should write the DOE since the attorney is

> so

>

> s-l-o-w? LOL

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Have not had time yet. Too busy getting doctors letters and regular MD

appointments. We just secured one time/week hippotherapy :0)))and still trying

to get sponsors to pay the stable fee of $15/week.

Our main thing now is getting this school fight over (sees like it never will

be) and also just trying to " find " a provider for the services he so desperately

needs. Thy are nt as availabl p here and virtually nonefor the homebound.

We spend a lot of time in transit (GAS $$) and have little money for even that.

I hate to sound poor and broke, but sometimes the truth works best. And it is

difficult to find any theapist, much less a good one. I just fired the old ST

and OT. I will send you an e-mail or call you about that one.

It is on my list, but time consuming and I have to deal with

hubbie's IRS issues from previous marriage first also. It is just nt that easy.

My plate overfloweth.

The list just gets longer and longer.

>

>

> , did you apply to united healthcare kids foundation for a grant???

[Guest guest]

i know you have the Dynavox already--that can be adapted to use the eyes to move

the mouse. There are also funding options on the Dynavox site where they will

help you find funding. thought maybe it would help.

I've seen the kid keyboards---maybe Adaptive Mall might have them.

>

>> Yes, he can use a mouse; eh...it is a little touchy sometimes and he has

trouble getting the mouse to the right place. I really wanted him to get that

program that helps train where to touch or where the mouse should go. I also

wanted to eventually get him a typing tutor CD (youngest one available) with a

" kid-friendly " keyboard (the big keys and limited keys).

[Guest guest]

you can teach him to use the mouse without a specific program. What kind of

programs do you already have?

The school said Trisha would never use the mouse well again she proved them

wrong. What I did was just get a huge color cursor so she could see it well and

then I would help her move the mouse and then point to the screen to show her

that when she moved the mouse the cursor moved. We made circles for her to

practice moving the cursor in and around. You can put large circles in " Word "

or some other word processing program and have him move the mouse around until

he gets the cursor in the circle and when he gets the large ones down pat, you

can reduce the size of the circle and cursor each time until you are using the

normal size. It worked very well with Trisha before they had all these neat

programs you could buy.

We have the big keys keyboard but she doesn't use it and never really liked it.

We also have the intellikeys and same thing she didn't like that as well. So we

work on her typing with a regular keyboard it's slower going but she prefers it

over the others.

Carol

From: Maureen

Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 12:35 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Sign language and Speech

i know you have the Dynavox already--that can be adapted to use the eyes to

move the mouse. There are also funding options on the Dynavox site where they

will help you find funding. thought maybe it would help.

I've seen the kid keyboards---maybe Adaptive Mall might have them.

>

>> Yes, he can use a mouse; eh...it is a little touchy sometimes and he has

trouble getting the mouse to the right place. I really wanted him to get that

program that helps train where to touch or where the mouse should go. I also

wanted to eventually get him a typing tutor CD (youngest one available) with a

" kid-friendly " keyboard (the big keys and limited keys).

[Guest guest]

That is interestng to know that it can be converted. But there is no physical

reason that he cannot learn to control the mouse. He does have touch screen, but

that seems to need to be calibrated every time we turn it on. I thought that was

odd. He is just like a person who is inexperienced with sensitive mouse use.

I talked to funing regarding external drives, internet card, etc... and I have

the Letter Of Medical Necessity inmy hands; however, they also want an

" addendum " letter from the riginal speech therapist, and she is no longer local

and unwilling to help unless I come into her office.

Since he is now homebound and I do most of his ST, I wondered if a letter from

me would suffice?

No software is included in the list from the doctor because generally speaking

medicaid does not cover it.

> >

> >> Yes, he can use a mouse; eh...it is a little touchy sometimes and he has

trouble getting the mouse to the right place. I really wanted him to get that

program that helps train where to touch or where the mouse should go. I also

wanted to eventually get him a typing tutor CD (youngest one available) with a

" kid-friendly " keyboard (the big keys and limited keys).

>

[Guest guest]

Those are really great ideas. I did not think of " enlarging the pointer " .

:0)))That will probably work well. I am not sure how to get large circles in

word. (Making big " o " 's in larger fonts?)

I really do not know if his communicator has Word? I will have to check that.

The only program that works without an external CD drive is Letterbugs Get Ready

To Read, and it was transferred successfully via flash drive. (Either way, an

available computer with a CD Drive has to be present if the program is

switchable to a flash drive....not good planning on the tech side for this

communicator, if you ask me)All others require the disk to be inserted (where?)

while te game is playing, which stinks.

Funding will take 8 weeks or more (knowledge from previous expeience) once I get

the letter from the speech therapist as well, which won't be any time this year.

I have the letter of medical necessity, now, signed from his doctor...IMHO, I

think that should be sufficient. I am going to try.

> >

> >> Yes, he can use a mouse; eh...it is a little touchy sometimes and he has

trouble getting the mouse to the right place. I really wanted him to get that

program that helps train where to touch or where the mouse should go. I also

wanted to eventually get him a typing tutor CD (youngest one available) with a

" kid-friendly " keyboard (the big keys and limited keys).

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

you can insert graphics into any word document. Just search the internet for

circles and when you find some you like save them to your hard drive. Open word

and the go to insert and insert graphic. I'd pick colorful ones to start with

and then fade that out as needed. You can adjust the size of the graphic once

you import it into word.

Carol

From:

Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 10:06 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Sign language and Speech

Those are really great ideas. I did not think of " enlarging the pointer " .

:0)))That will probably work well. I am not sure how to get large circles in

word. (Making big " o " 's in larger fonts?)

I really do not know if his communicator has Word? I will have to check that.

The only program that works without an external CD drive is Letterbugs Get

Ready To Read, and it was transferred successfully via flash drive. (Either way,

an available computer with a CD Drive has to be present if the program is

switchable to a flash drive....not good planning on the tech side for this

communicator, if you ask me)All others require the disk to be inserted (where?)

while te game is playing, which stinks.

Funding will take 8 weeks or more (knowledge from previous expeience) once I

get the letter from the speech therapist as well, which won't be any time this

year. I have the letter of medical necessity, now, signed from his

doctor...IMHO, I think that should be sufficient. I am going to try.

> >

> >> Yes, he can use a mouse; eh...it is a little touchy sometimes and he has

trouble getting the mouse to the right place. I really wanted him to get that

program that helps train where to touch or where the mouse should go. I also

wanted to eventually get him a typing tutor CD (youngest one available) with a

" kid-friendly " keyboard (the big keys and limited keys).

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Carol. I will do that. My older girls thought that was a great idea as

well.

> > >

> > >> Yes, he can use a mouse; eh...it is a little touchy sometimes and he

has trouble getting the mouse to the right place. I really wanted him to get

that program that helps train where to touch or where the mouse should go. I

also wanted to eventually get him a typing tutor CD (youngest one available)

with a " kid-friendly " keyboard (the big keys and limited keys).

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >