Re: CROSSPOST: Unbelievable story -- Teacher emoti...

June 1, 2008

Really-- from what I understand this teacher has an AMAZING record as a

highly respected teacher for something like 20 years??? I know that has

more knowledge about her record as a teacher-- but it sure sounded as though

she's been an incredible teacher for many years with only this recent issue

being a complaint

becky

In a message dated 6/1/2008 9:12:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

mrefus@... writes:

However, this is a person who & nbsp;in my opinion who should not be

" teaching " children

**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch " Cooking with

Tyler Florence " on AOL Food.

(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4 & ?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

June 2, 2008

Becky we don't even know if the child had an IEP! We don't know if

he went to a " normal " preschool. We know the mom worked which is why

the teacher couldn't send him home and how he ended up all the time

at the nurse's office. For all we know the teacher tried to point

out the problems (and wouldn't it be the teacher that suspected the

possible autism?) and the parent freaked out and said " no way! " We

can only speculate until the facts come out.

I actually thought about this today while doing other things. In

some way herself has ended up in the exact same situation as

this teacher. Everyone here that has read 's messages knows

that she is a caring mother who researches everything for her child

and reaches out to help others. Imagine if our little group was all

of a sudden in the spotlight and it wasn't private (as it is) and the

media picked up her comment calling the rest of the class a " gang of

brats " Imagine anger pouring in from all ends of the Earth in

support of these kindergarten children who just got sucked into the

whole mess! They would just assume things about and who she is.

That's when she'd appreciate those that don't just jump to conclusions.

And you pointed out exactly what I was thinking Becky - Out of the

students 2 voted no while the rest voted yes. So much easier to vote

with the group -think like the group. It's very few that don't just

give into group mentality thinking.

http://io.uwinnipeg.ca/~taylor/Groups.htm

A great movie about group mentality and just a great movie in

general - 12 Angry Men

1957 version

12 Angry Men " focuses on a jury's deliberations in a capital murder

case. A 12-man jury is sent to begin deliberations in the first-

degree murder trial of an 18-year-old Latino accused in the stabbing

death of his father, where a guilty verdict means an automatic death

sentence. The case appears to be open-and-shut: The defendant has a

weak alibi; a knife he claimed to have lost is found at the murder

scene; and several witnesses either heard screaming, saw the killing

or the boy fleeing the scene. Eleven of the jurors immediately vote

guilty; only Juror No. 8 (Mr. ) casts a not guilty vote. At

first Mr. ' bases his vote more so for the sake of discussion

after all, the jurors must believe beyond a reasonable doubt that the

defendant is guilty. As the deliberations unfold, the story quickly

becomes a study of the jurors' complex personalities (which range

from wise, bright and empathetic to arrogant, prejudiced and

merciless), preconceptions, backgrounds and interactions. That

provides the backdrop to Mr. ' attempts in convincing the other

jurors that a " not guilty " verdict might be appropriate

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050083/

You Tube clip of the movie -and Amen to the final message in this clip

=====

June 2, 2008

We know the mom worked which is why

> the teacher couldn't send him home and how he ended up all the time

> at the nurse's office.

Schools are supposed to provide FAPE, not send a child home when they

misbehave. Given all the problems reported, was there ever a

Functional Behavioral Assessment? Was there ever a behavior plan? It

appears as though the school dumped this kid into a mainstream class

with no supports and probably justified it by saying there is not an

IEP yet. It stinks that the teacher had these behavior problems dumped

in her class without the proper supports, but that can NEVER justify

voting the kid out of the class. She should have been complaining to

the administration or help the mom navigate the educational system to

get those supports.

June 2, 2008

Hi ,

I probably should not have said that since it was pulled from the

transcripts and may be taken out of context. Who knows if the school

was looking to send the child home for the rest of the day after the

second time he needed to be pulled from the room for his actions or

if it's just one person's story - and who knows if there was or

wasn't a behavioral plan in place. That's the point -we don't know

anything about this as the school isn't talking to the media.

Perhaps the school was pushing to classify the child and the mother

didn't agree to any type of classification. Perhaps the school never

offered anything and the mother was pushing them which seems unlikely

since it was the school that raised the question of autism and the

mother didn't bother to get a neurological evaluation up to that

point -it's all speculation. I find it odd that the child is being

referred to by the media as autistic when the only suspicion of

autism was raised by the very school that's now being attacked -and

we are at the end of the school year here in Florida. No matter what

the mother's reasons for not getting an evaluation prior it's clear

with the media attention that the mother is now interested in getting

her child diagnosed as autistic as I'm sure that will help her case

in court. But is he autistic? I'm sure there is a very interesting

other side to this story -but because we are talking about a mother

and a 5 year old child -we may never know the details to protect the

child. And in my opinion this child needs to be protected and his

condition should not be discussed in front of him, even if we knew

what and if he had one. Also his inappropriate behavior should not

be excused in front of him as " part of his disability " -The mother

said it's all out of his control right in front of him.

I happen to have another example of another very wealthy child who

lived near us with his 2 brothers, has been friends with my boys, not

autistic but out of control. 3 brothers -one was a toddler.

They could be tough, mean, so when they were around Dakota and Tanner's

other friends didn't want to be around. Thing is that when they

lived near me they got to be friends with my boys and the one in

question took to Tanner because he had a speech issue when he was

younger. It's sad because I took the 2 older boys with us to

Universal a few times -and got to see them be kids -and they were

good kids when I took them with us. They listened to me -I really

think part of the trouble the 2 older boys got into was just for

attention. The parents got divorced and they moved away but I just

heard the middle child now 12 - who always was the main trouble maker was

just sent to " boarding school " in Colorado (which I heard from a

teacher is some type of juvenile correction facility) after throwing

a rock at someone. This child too was frequently in trouble in the

school- I just wonder if things could have been different.

I know in the case we are talking about the child is very verbal -has

eye contact -and is social but with severe behavioral issues and may

or may not be autistic -but below are some things I put together for

how teachers and parents can work together when there is an apraxic

child which may help with other situations (from an archive)

Thought this would be of interest to this situation:

8. Even with positive reinforcement -sometimes children can be

unruly. If a child is acting up in class and especially if you

believe this is out of character -please don't hesitate to call the

parents to discuss. Don't embarrass the child or get into the habit

of yelling at the class each day. My son Dakota had a teacher like

this right before she retired -and my one neighbor starting to refer

to her as " the wicked witch "

~~~

Here are some suggestions for preschool teacher that has a child

with apraxia in the class from the CHERAB website -then below that

are a few added suggestions for helping improve specifically parent-

teacher relations based on my own experience now that Tanner is in

kindergarten and Dakota is in third grade.

Suggestions For A Pre-School Teacher That Has A Child With Apraxia

In Class

1. Send home a picture of the activity centers, and all the children

and teachers, so the child can be more specific about what he or she

did during the day.

2. Recognize the child's strengths, not just his or her needs.

3. Start on teaching the child some signs to use in the classroom

for things he or she needs to communicate immediately (ex It's

mine!) This would be beneficial to the other students as well, and

will help to head off any behavior or peer interaction problems....

Also, you could use the PECS system or look into other augmentative

communication for him to help build expressive language capability -

longer and more complex sentences, etc

4. If the child has a private SLP, work collaboratively with him or

her by e-mail, or phone, so that everyone that works with the child

is on the same page. For example: what target sounds to practice

during the day, repetitively.

5. Stop making the child with apraxia say incorrect approximations.

6. Do not put an apraxic child on the spot for speaking

7. Increase the apraxic child's 'free time' on the computer programs

and introduce him to more age appropriate games and even ones to

challenge him. A 3-year-old who has no apparent cognitive or fine

motor problems is likely to enjoy some of the kids' software, and he

can control what it does without having to make his wishes

understood by someone else.

8. Have a daily communication book that records what the child did

at school or home. Anyone who cares for, or teaches the child with

apraxia can write in this book. Be specific about the activities

you do with the child during the day. Include photos, etc.

9. Don't hold the rest of his education back to the level of his

speech. Work around it as best you can - ask him to pick the green

one instead of telling you what color something is, to rearrange

pictures to retell you the story, etc.

10. Work one on one with the child as much as possible. Repetition

is always important for a child with apraxia.

Helping Parent-Student relations (based on my own experience with

Dakota and Tanner's teachers over the years)

1. Start a classroom page at Scholastic http://www.scholastic.com -or

a

similar " homepage " for the class where parents or students can sign

in and keep up with class events and homework etc. Exchange email

addresses with the parents. Email isn't only great for allowing

professionals to exchange information about the students -it's also

excellent for parent -teacher communication.

2. Invite parents to come in to share their cultural background,

career, talent, etc. The parents could cook a dish or share food

from their native country, read a story -or make a craft with the

children. If a child's parent is a dentist -they could educate

about teeth and dentistry, a police officer parent can teach the

children about safety. In addition to " homeroom parents " who may

have more time to be in the class more often -this type of request

allows parents that work to perhaps find the time to become not only

part of the class -but to help educate too!

3. Be involved with your schools PTO or PTA or whatever the parent

teacher organization is called in your area. Parents can go a long

way in helping you as a teacher to raise monies for classroom items

that may not be in the school budget -and they notice teachers who

are involved

as teachers that care.

4. At the start of each year chart out dates for monthly events,

parties and class trips using classroom assignments and or holidays

for inspiration. Your classroom homeroom parents at the start of

the year can use your chart to help you find various parent

volunteers for each month to donate supplies -or to come in person

and help. Up front dates for all " big " events helps parents to plan

time off from work.

4. At the start of each school year have an " open house " for the

parents where you can give out fliers of information about what

their children will be learning this year. A list of books you

suggest they read to help their child -as well as a list of books or

programs they may want to share with their child that you as their

teacher are recommending.

5. Don't be a teacher to young children if you don't have the

patience to work with young children. Know the age of the child -or

adult -you most love to work with. You and the parents will be much

happier -as well as of course your students.

6. Share your likes and who you are in the classroom. Decorate

your classroom to reflect who you are. If you are a tennis buff for

example -you could put tennis balls at the bottom of each of the

legs of the chairs in the room which not only look cute -but keep

the chairs from making noise when the children sit down or get up.

7. Allow parents to donate small toys (such as the ones given out

at fast food restaurants with kids meals) that the children can earn

as rewards. As much as we don't always like those little toys -I

don't know a

parent that doesn't appreciate positive

reinforcement like this for their child to bring home and brag about

earning or

winning.

8. Even with positive reinforcement -sometimes children can be

unruly. If a child is acting up in class and especially if you

believe this is out of character -please don't hesitate to call the

parents to discuss. Don't embarrass the child or get into the habit

of yelling at the class each day. My son Dakota had a teacher like

this right before she retired -and my one neighbor starting to refer

to her as " the wicked witch "

8. Remember the old saying -there is no such thing as a boring

subject -just boring teachers. Don't be afraid of having fun and

creative with the class while teaching. Parents hear everything

from their kids and will request the teachers that are most loved by

the children because we usually find out that when a child loves his

teacher -he loves to go to class -and works harder to please.

9. There is one area that almost all parents feel strong about

having strict rules in. Most parents support zero tolerance for

hitting and teasing. Even though all of our children can be the one

that hits at some time or the other -nobody wants their child to hit

others -and even more -nobody wants their child to go to school and

come home in tears because he was hit -or teased. And that includes

from you the teacher. If a parent tells you that his or her child

was teased in class don't fluff it off and say " Oh please that was

nothing " (yup happened to me!) It may be nothing to you -but it's

our kid -and it's everything to us if he comes home in tears and

doesn't want to go back to school. (and yes I took him out of that

program right after)

10. In addition to letting the children and parents know you -get

to know your students. Listen to the parents and learn as much as

you can about their child. Ask parents for their help -and let

them know how they can help you. As others have stated before -the

parent is an expert on their child.

And since once again this reminds me of that movie 12 Angry Men -

here's the entire movie compliments of YouTube

1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E26L-sMKuEw & feature=related

2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofcpWdS3tRg & feature=related

3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2pW2qLudmw & feature=related

4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl1vs8R7_C4

5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVBWSuw8A_Q & feature=related

6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOvt_0tcQwM & feature=related

7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsDHM_5uOQ8 & feature=related

8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVRuPYCsWgs & feature=related

9 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhaELBVKuuY & feature=related

=====

June 2, 2008

Being a homeschooler-- I guess I'm ignorant to what FAPE is-- could someone

educate me as to what it stands for?

Assuming from what we're talking about, it's some sort of plan where the

school keeps the child until the parents can get there?

Working parent or not-- it is ALWAYS the parent's responsibility to take

their child and make sure that they are safe etc

just my opinion tho

bek

In a message dated 6/1/2008 11:16:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

elmccann@... writes:

Schools are supposed to provide FAPE, not send a child home when they

misbehave

**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch " Cooking with

Tyler Florence " on AOL Food.

(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4 & ?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

June 2, 2008

It's marvelous you feel this way as this is one point we agree on -

it's most important to teach our children kindness and empathy. I

believe babies naturally like everyone -but also naturally for self

protection try to avoid any type of pain. There's been much in the

news about the compassion of school children all over toward the

babies dying in Africa due to lack of mosquito netting. Here's just

one article.

Richland middle school students join campaign to send mosquito nets

to Africa

http://www.tri-cityherald.com/901/story/200348.html

I first again want to clarify that I am not defending this teacher's

actions of making the children vote a child out of class and please

stop implying I'm sticking up for this action by wanting to wait for

more of the facts from all sides. I've said repeatedly that we

should wait until we get the whole story prior to getting this

teacher fired, sued and ruining her life. This situation once again

reminds me of 12 Angry Men because to most -including you apparently -

this is an open and shut case even without hearing anything else.

While I don't know if the teacher " flipped her lid " as you assume -

nor the details behind any of the teacher's actions -nor the actions

of the mother, police officer nor the rest of the class of

kindergarten students -I do know that you twice now are standing by

your decision that the children that voted this student out of the

class for the day are in some way a gang of brats -not compassionate,

kind, don't have empathy. It's clear that you believe that the only

reason the 2 children didn't vote him out of the class is because

they are kind an compassionate and will make great teachers down the

road. There is another reason -bullies tend to have at least one

croonie with them at all times.

I just wrote about a child that was in my children's one school who

not only was a bully but tried to touch children in inappropriate

ways on their private parts. I was sitting at a picnic table with a

bunch of parents from the school at an event we were at and turned

for a second and actually saw this child pass by a child who was

holding an ice cream cone and push that child's hands that were

holding the cone up so that the cone went into the other child's

shirt and then the ice cream dropped to the ground while the poor

child who was just attacked for no reason at all stood there doe eyed

and in shock. This bully child who was out of control just kept

walking and so I quickly said to the child that lost his ice cream -

" don't worry " and I yelled out (I have a big mouth) " Hey did

everyone see what ____ just did?! ______I saw you hit this

child's ice cream cone into his shirt so it fell! " You know what

this bully out of control child did -he ignored me and walked away.

I'm not his teacher, nor his mother, nor his baby sitter -so I said

and did nothing else other than report what I saw (and get the one

child another cone and wipe up his shirt) Thing is that ____ was

always with one or two other children when he did these actions -so

if there was a vote -guess who would have probably voted for him not

to leave?! I know I wouldn't want any of them as my children's

teacher down the road based on the way they are as children!

Again we don't know what the reason/s are for this particular child's

severe behavioral issues -but until there is a diagnosis of autism -

all we know is that it's a child that has a severe behavioral

problem. In some cases a child that kicks others, throws things,

gets under the desk to tip if over while children are working at it

and not listening to authority are words used not to describe autism -

but " bully "

" Several longitudinal studies conducted over two decades have

recognized bullying behavior in the elementary school as a precursor

of violent behavior, and show significant links between this behavior

and criminal activity in adult life. Recent Canadian investigations

in the elementary school point to the connection between bullying and

sexual harassment and violence in later years (Craig and Peplar 1997).

While the majority of elementary school children are not involved in

bullying, children who bully cause a great deal of suffering to the

children they bully, and the effects of this harassment can last well

into adulthood. This behavior also affects the physical, social, and

psychological safety of children at school, and can create a climate

of fear that becomes an obstacle to learning. "

http://www.bced.gov.bc.ca/specialed/bullying.pdf

(probably should read all of the above link -but too long to post it

all here)

=====

June 2, 2008

I normally keep my mouth shut and didn't really even read any of these posts

until just now and had to go back and read through them all... Just wanted to

put my 2 cents in... - I would agree that we have not heard the teacher;s

side of the story and we have only heard the mother's and we should not just

jump to conclusions (like everyone is).. when I first heard about this story I

was DISCUSTED that anyone would ever do this to a child... A 5 year old child...

I think the way the situation was handled was wrong and cruel to the little

boy.... I agree that as parents we should be doing EVERYTHING and ANYTHING for

our own children, if this was my son I would have been jumping through hoops to

figure out why he is the way he is, and ensuring that whtever school he ws going

to that he had hte proper help to get through a day... Heck = I'm going through

that right now with my daughter, she is not at all a trouble kid - she is the

sweetest thing

around (no Im not biased or anythign!) but I am still doing everything in my

power to ensure that next year in her 2 year old class that she has all the help

she can have to make sure she gets the best education and has the most fun

as she possibly can.. I want to do all i can to make sure she does not fail... I

don't feel like this mother did that...

But twathever... No matter what hte mother did or did not do - the teacher

handled this totally wrong and I can see why the mother is reacting hte way she

is.. She is NOW trying to protect her son... There are a lot of things going on

that are not right, nor are they wrong... But whateve rhte case may be -

everyone shoudl be thinking about the little boy and how to make sure HE can

succeed in life and make it through so that as an adult he will be successful..

I don't know ifhtat made any sense.. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone

here - just putting in my two cents.. I am not siding with mother or teacher - I

just think peopel need to consider ALL the peopel involved and the feelings of

ALL the kids... I would have flipped MY lid if this was my child!

Anyay = gotta run!

Cristal

gtzellner@...

[ ] Re: CROSSPOST: Unbelievable story -- Teacher

emoti...

It's marvelous you feel this way as this is one point we agree on -

it's most important to teach our children kindness and empathy. I

believe babies naturally like everyone -but also naturally for self

protection try to avoid any type of pain. There's been much in the

news about the compassion of school children all over toward the

babies dying in Africa due to lack of mosquito netting. Here's just

one article.

Richland middle school students join campaign to send mosquito nets

to Africa

http://www.tri- cityherald. com/901/story/ 200348.html