Re: Kaufman Sign & Say cards / why doesn't my guy sign?!?

[Guest guest]

Sandy- thanks. now I will more signing up the list! I decided on the plain Kit 1

instead of the pretty pix sign cards (i hope to get those shortly).

Maybe someone can help me understand WHY the baby signing isn't catching on with

my guy. I have been doing the (baby) signing consistantly since January, and

have in the past hand-over-hand shown him how to do it. With his sensory issues-

or just plainly outright refusals- I stopped doing that. Now I just always do

simple gestures and he won't do them. (yes- I have witheld objects to get him to

ask for it- as the simple " drink " sign.)

well..I have to say..last week FINALLY after I say " please " and rub my belly- he

will do it occassionally if I ask him to do please . today he put finger tips

together for " more " . wow. progress.

I just couldn't see us starting amer. sign language..and gave the speech

therapist an odd look when she said she will start doing that and sat him on my

lap and had me move his hands to sign: " I want ball " ...crazy, just crazy I

thought!!

any thoughts as to WHY some kids can't do/don't want to do signing is welcomed-

thanks!!!

Iveta

[Guest guest]

In my son's case he didn't sign for a few reasons.

#1 slight finger motor planning issues combined with perfectionism!

He didn't want to do an approximation and he couldn't do the proper

sign!

#2, and the biggest reason, was he also has a severe language

disorder. He's in the minority here I believe, but signing didn't

work for him because like spoken language it's still a language! When

he did start signing some it was only words that he also said. The

sign helped clarify his spoken word because he was so inconsistent in

pronunciation. We of course only realized this in hindsight as his

language issues only became more noticeable as his speech became more

clear.

You've not said much about your son, so I have no reason to suggest a

language issue, but if it is something that might make sense I'd

suggest the following. Try teaching him signs for words that he does

know. If there is something with language it might click that this is

another way to say that word. It could be a link to help him catch on

to other signs.

Miche

On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 5:47 PM, lucy2max<lucy2max@...> wrote:

>

>

> Sandy- thanks. now I will more signing up the list! I decided on the plain

> Kit 1 instead of the pretty pix sign cards (i hope to get those shortly).

>

> Maybe someone can help me understand WHY the baby signing isn't catching on

> with my guy.

[Guest guest]

Signing language uses two different parts of the brain: the Broca's area, which

is damaged in most of our children who have verbal apraxia; and the front right

temporal lobe of the brain. Because the front right temporal lobe plays a major

role in sign language acquisition and usage, most of our children with verbal

apraxia , which generally occurs in the Broca's region, do relatively well with

signing. Another skill that uses this front right temporal lobe in the brain is

hitting a ball with a bat. The frontal lobes are involved in motor function,

problem solving, spontaneity, memory, language, initiation, judgement, impulse

control, and social and sexual behavior. There are important asymmetrical

differences in the frontal lobes. The left frontal lobe is involved in

controlling language related movement, whereas the right frontal lobe plays a

role in non-verbal abilities. So, you can see why sign language, non-verbal

abilities, may be easier than motor planning for speech.A person with left

frontal lesions will speak fewer words. (Kolb & Milner, 1981) The frontal lobes

are also thought to play a part in our spatial orientation, including our body's

orientation in space (Semmes et al., 1963); hence, why some of our children with

verbal apraxia also have sensory issues. Some common tests for frontal lobe

function are: Wisconsin Card Sorting (response inhibition); Finger Tapping

(motor skills); Token Test (language skills). The right temporal lobe has mostly

visual memories and non-verbal sounds (bird songs, your pet dog, music, etc.).

Since sign language is a " visual " language, persons with a good functioning

front right temporal lobe are able to learn it well. A good site to look at on

brain function is here:

http://www.members.shaw.ca/hidden-talents/brain/113-right.html

Keep in mind that although science has essentially mapped the human brain, there

can be differences among us. People who are left-handed, for example, might use

different areas of their brain for different tasks than would right-handed

people, who collectively make up 90% of the population. If you are ambidextrious

(use both hands equally), then your brain might work in yet a different way.

So, back to the question at hand: How come my child is not learning sign

language so easily? My answer is: Develop the area of the brain that is not

damaged and you will also develop better sign language skills. Work on hand-eye

coordination with batting a ball, for instance. Other helps would be: make sure

" you " are signing and speaking in signed " English order " . ASL order is NOT what

you are to be teaching your verbally apraxic child. ASL order is for individuals

who are deaf or have a substantial hearing disability. The need for " English

order " in verbally apraxic children is ...your goal is to " cue the brain to

remember how to sequence the sounds to make the words " . If you use ASL order,

your words will not match what you are saying, which defeats the purpose of

learning sign language as a bridge to commuication; installation of oral motor

templates is essential here. The use of sign language, whether or not your child

can sign it back to you, stimulates a different language area of the brain. When

the sign is seen (and heard) again, the brain recognizes the word and

remembers/recalls it from the previous times. The more it is used, the more

" language " your little one is going to acquire. Sign language will NOT prevent,

nor delay, your child from talking; rather, sign language encourages language

acquisition and actually cues the brain to remember how to sequence the sounds

to make the words. Sign language does work, even if you do not " see " your child

signing anything back to you.

I hope this has helped you understand sign language in relation to verbal

apraxia more? Good luck! :0) (P.S. ASL gestures are the signs you learn, but you

just present them in the same order that you speak instead of having the " you " ,

for example, at the middle and end of a sentence as in ASL.:YOU DON'T-WANT THAT

YOU? (ASL ORDER): YOU DON " T WANT THAT? (ENGLISH ORDER): A good vocabulary

building book is " A Basic Course " by Humphries, Padden, and O'Rourke. They also

have a DVD of the vocabulary words for the book and I " think " , but I am not

sure, it is a " speaking " DVD raher than a " deaf " DVD-the words are spoken when

the signs are produced, which is what you want. Be careful and always ask before

you order because a lot of " ASL-type " videos are produced for people who are

deaf and therefore do not need any " sound " .)-

[Guest guest]

I am now worried he has a serious language disorder. He is 22 months old,

cognitively fine, tested few weeks ago as receptive lang a couple months behind,

his fine motors skills are wonderful- (he gets OT for sensory issues that I see

have mostly disappeared- yet they won't graduate him yet), he gets PT- but is

doing great (and I hope that will stop soon- he can do stairs now and climb

furniture etc etc).

I have been doing baby signing since January, and only now IF only IF I ask him

" drink " and do the baby drink sign- he will do it. Actually drink he kindof did

today for the first time. He will do " please " and " more " sometimes if I show him

first- and that is only in the last week for " more " and two weeks ago he started

" please " in the same manner- If I show him first.

Words for him come out of nowhere, appropriately using ONE or two words and then

nothing for a while. Shirt, fish, this, thanks, jump, pop, baba, gimme it..and

couple others-we have heard only once or twice. " Mama " and " done " are a bit more

common- but not always around.

" dada, dede " is pretty much a constant.

We started with SLPs only a few weeks ago. I have crammed his schedule sooo much

we are tired! He will be getting 5x week speech therapy from now on- unless I

collapse- cuz we drive to 4 of them and to other therapies- eeks. All speech

therapists we have differ a great deal. One uses tactile cueing- well hasn't

used much at all really, and says he has low facial tone. Another says he has

apraxia and is doing all kinds of things- I think experimenting right now-

kaufman cards, PROMPT, talktools. Another says he doesn't have apraxia and his

hearing is on and off and she will help him with regular speech therapy- and

insists he only needs speech 2x a week! (yes- I was worried about this one

also!)

His hearing is checked at children's audiology dept three times this year- all

fine in hearing- yet fluid in ears back and forth- yet they say that does NOT

affect him hearing. Some say it didn't affect what he heard on THAT day of the

testing- but hearing could go in and out.

We see an ENT again on tuesday. He has no history of ear infections- don't even

see the " silent " non painful type- but then again- I am clueless in this area!

I will read carefully what sent me- first reading went over my head- so I

will try again to understand.

Any other comments as to what might be going on is appreciated from anyone-

thank you.

Iveta

> >

> >

> > Sandy- thanks. now I will more signing up the list! I decided on the plain

> > Kit 1 instead of the pretty pix sign cards (i hope to get those shortly).

> >

> > Maybe someone can help me understand WHY the baby signing isn't catching on

> > with my guy.

>

[Guest guest]

Since january is not a long time but only 1 at a time.When I taught my 7dd baby

signs--the EI SLP said do 1 at a time. the first ones taught are always to do

with food and you! " more " was the first one....only do that and all the time

till he does it back-even if its not perfect--THAN add a new one. Eat,

mama,go---its not really really important that he learn the sign for

" please " --is it?work on MORE and EAT first. dont add new ones till you see him

do the last one you've added. than he'll start picking them up faster. I did

" more " with her for a while--a week or more--before I got it back from her. she

was barely 1yr old when we started with sign.

>

>

> I have been doing baby signing since January, and only now IF only IF I ask

him " drink " and do the baby drink sign- he will do it. Actually drink he kindof

did today for the first time. He will do " please " and " more " sometimes if I show

him first- and that is only in the last week for " more " and two weeks ago he

started " please " in the same manner- If I show him first.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Go with the therapist that is trying all the dfferent methods and has a

diagnosis for Apraxia. Better to get " more " speech therapy with a diagnosis of

Apraxia than " less " or inappropriate speech therapy with a different diagnosis.

You cannot go wrong with the Apraxia diagnosis, because you are more apt to get

the correct method for your child used. Whereas, if a ST simply diagnosis

" speech delay " , you can be left without adequate treatment. If it is not

Apraxia, then no harm done. If it is and they treat for a lesser condition, then

a lot of harm done.

P.S. Basically what I was tying to say in the previous post is you always build

on the skills your child can do (or build the really well functioning parts of

the brain) rather than beating a stick on your head trying to get a brain part

to operate when it cannot. Building on functioning brain parts will allow for

transference or flow-over to nonfunctioning areas.