Re: Need help regarding preschool...special education vs. private

May 27, 2010

Hi Greta!

No doubt in my mind based on what you wrote -special needs preschool where you

have an IEP and advocate for all the appropriate services. If all apraxic

children needed was a loving caregiver to get them up to speed for

preschool...well that would have been much easier, cheaper, nicer. No- nice,

loving, that alone is not what is appropriate for an apraxic child. Most of us

do some sort of private therapy in addition to whatever is offered by Early

Intervention. If you have not read The Late Talker I highly suggest that to

help you through the advocacy process of IEPs...once you get them down you

honestly can have fun with them

Here's a long archive with more info:

Re: Big PRESCHOOL Dilemma

Hi Nati!

Great question.

If you check the archives -many " aggressive " or hitting children are

the apraxic ones that are preschooled in " normal " preschools. They

are also the ones that regress into themselves. That's due to

frustration. Apraxia doesn't affect a child's receptive ability -so

they are very aware is they are not keeping up in some way.

In general I am for special needs preschool for speech impaired

children -and mainstream whenever possible for K-12. The goal is to

get the child up to speed as quickly as possible so that they can be

mainstreamed K-12 -and that mean appropriate placement and therapy

for preschool years. I know Becky and possibly one or two others

believe that's possible to do homeschool-I know if anyone can prove

it that will be Becky. The overwhelming majority of apraxic children

attend a special needs preschool and parents advocate for appropriate

placement and services with qualified special needs educators,

therapists and appropriate speech and occupational therapies.

Perhaps autism is the larger issue with your child? Perhaps the

apraxia your child has is mild -and Dr. Agin is more concerned with

your child's social skills? I don't know -but below is an archive

based upon history here -and history says special needs preschool is

typically best for apraxic children. Let us know how severe your

child's speech impairment is- how many days of therapy a week -

frustration level etc. All that matters.

~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archive on this a bit long:

Hi all!

In theory the practice of throwing the baby bird from the nest will

work. The sink or swim theory. (taking a severely speech impaired

child and throwing them into mainstream preschool in hopes it

will somehow stimulate them in a positive way to get up to speed)

In reality, the obvious - we are not birds. " If the baby is thrown

from the nest, however, there may be something wrong with it. " from

http://wildlifeinternational.org/EN/public/emergency/faqs/rqright.cfm?ID=121

That whole get your child around proper models so they will learn

how to act holds no water. How many children 50 years ago went to

preshool or daycare? Any? And yet somehow they " learned " how to act

normal by just being around Mom and Dad? My apraxic son was

schooled at a private out of district placement special needs

preschool for the hearing impaired and deaf and in spite of the lack

of normal role models -or perhaps due to this since he had nobody to

tease him about why he couldn't speak well so his self esteem stayed

in tack - Tanner has since kindergarten been schooled in the

mainstream and has tons of friends and loves to play and yes talks a

mile a minute today in spite of the fact that he is still apraxic.

One does not get cured of apraxia, but you can learn to overcome it

enough to blend for the most part. Not all the time but at least

most of the time. Saying multi complex words in long sentences -

still difficult for Tanner -but we are still working on it. Many

people today have no clue Tanner has any speech issue... until they

get him into a long discussion...which can be months after they meet

him! He's pretty good at knowing how to talk just enough to blend,

and to get others to talk more.

Better sooner than later as they say when it comes to therapy! The

goal is to put your child into the placement that will enable him or

her to be able to be placed in mainstream classes from K and beyond

with the least amount of therapy. So your job is to figure out

which is the best way to get your child there.

As far as what is better; special ed or mainstream preschool?...I have

done it both ways with two different children and for two different

reasons. For each child I wouldn't do anything different even if I

could go back and could because each today is mainstreamed and has

been from kindergarten and today with one in 3rd and one in 6th they

are both doing amazing in all ways. The way a child is in preschool

is not how they will be later on. Even though my one son Tanner was

very shy, and wilted in groups of children during his preschool

years, he is very social today. Tanner LOVES playing in groups now

and has for as long as I can recall school year wise, but also plays

well one on one, and also doesn't hesitate to call up his friends on

the phone himself to arrange his own " playdates " Today from both

very different beginnings, both of my boys ages 9 and 11 are social

butterflies, and mainstreamed in school and life. That's a great

goal to set.

Not sure if I made it clear that nobody diagnosed or suspected

Tanner of having social problems. Tanner played well with children

once he got to know them. While he was nonverbal, he was painfully

and obviously uncomfortable around groups of children he did not

know..even if he knew some of the children well. For example once

we went to a birthday party over a neighbor's house. Tanner loved

and Shelby, but they had groups of friends there that Tanner

had never met before. All of them were playing and friendly, even

trying to get Tanner to play too, but he just stood over to the side

and watched. If you tried to force him to join them as some did,

that was a bad idea unless you were looking for tears.

He knew the others were having fun but he just was not comfortable

with them. If one or two children came over while he was with one

child he knew, that was OK. Just couldn't be too many new faces,

new talking faces that is.

That is in direct contrast to Dakota who would join into any group

of children if it looked like they were playing.

What's funny is right now as social as Tanner is he is choosing whom

to invite to his birthday party and has it down to 30 kids (yes you

read that right) He is not inviting the girls that " talk too much "

because he will tell you they " don't do anything but stand around

and talk and don't play " He only wants to invite the girls that

play.

How do you get there? I do have strong feelings on this one

(too)

If a child has a severe impairment of speech like apraxia I'd say in

most cases special ed preschool would be more appropriate. The best

chance you have to get a child up to speed to be mainstreamed from

kindergarten on is in the preschool years. The most critical years

for your child's self esteem are also during those very same

preschool years. And again don't assume the way a preschool child

is socially will be who they are down the road.

Both my boys were opposite in preschool years. Dakota had more of a

simple delay in speech thrived in mainstream preschool, and most

with simple delays in speech will. Dakota also thrived in groups of

children even when he was not yet talking. Why? He had global

delays at that age and very little frustration about not

communicating. His receptive and expressive ability were about the

same. But just because Dakota ended up being " just a late talker "

doesn't mean it was an easy road for him or us. " I'll never forget

sitting in the one neurologist's office with tears coming down my

face as he told us that our then 2 year old son Dakota had a 6 month

delay, and because of the amount of head injuries Dakota sustained

from birth, there was no one who could tell us if this delay would

be permanent or not. "

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/workandfamily.html

(see now you would have thought a child like that would have been

better off in special needs preschool huh? Go figure it doesn't

make sense but just follow the child's lead!)

On the other hand my son Tanner with severe oral and verbal apraxia,

sensory integration dysfunction etc. thrived in special needs

preschool. While his brother thrived in group situations with other

children, again Tanner regressed into himself. He was much better

with one on one arranged play dates. Why? Tanner's receptive

ability was above average while his expressive ability was way below

average and he knew what was expected and what he couldn't do as

much as he wanted. Tanner's page

http://www.cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html

Observe your child with groups of children at parties or at the

park. Do they thrive in group situations or wilt?

Is your child's receptive and expressive leval about the same? Is

he or she showing any signs of frustration? (clue the receptive

ability is higher)

Those answers alone could help make your decision. You do want to

make the right one on this.

No matter what program you put your child in you should keep your

eyes open for any signs of regression in any area, especially if you

have a child with a severe impairment of speech and normal receptive

ability in a mainstream preschool program. Taking a child with

normal receptive ability and severe expressive ability and putting

them into a mainstream preschool may not have the affect one hopes

for. Instead of stimulating speech the child could develop

aggression, or become withdrawn due to frustration. Self esteem is

most important to keep in tact during preschool years. Those with

high self esteem don't make for good targets for bullies. I'll

never forget being at a park with Dakota when he was in kindergarten

at a party. A child there who had just tried to do something

Dakota was doing looked at Dakota and said " I hate you " Dakota

looked at him with barely any reaction at all (he was upside down at

the time) and calmly said " Oh yeah? Do you like yourself? " I'm

proud to say that both of my boys have the same high self esteem.

The awesome mainstream preschool that schooled my son Dakota met

with Tanner to see if they could work magic for him like they did

for Dakota. They were as wonderful and knowledgeable about children

as always -but the program was not for Tanner, and all agreed.

As parents of course the decision is left ultimately up to each one

of us. Nobody is going to shove special needs preschool down your

throat... especially when there are parents like me advocating not

just for the placement but for all the services that would be

appropriate as well! And if the public school preschool program is

not appropriate -you could advocate for what is called " out of

district placement " where the public school pays to send your child

to an appropriate private school placement. That's where my son

Tanner was preschooled -in out of district placement at the oral

based Summit Speech School for the hearing impaired and deaf in New

Providence, NJ (Tanner has normal hearing) Oh how I wish that school

went up to HS! What an awesome school!!! But would it have been

good for Dakota? Probably not as good as the mainstream preschool

he went to. For him.

The answer is in the long run vs. the short run. Which placement

will provide your child with the best odds of getting up to speed as

quickly as possible with your child's self esteem in tack?

There is much more in the archives -here's just a bit:

" There is a difference between a child who has a mild delay in speech

and one who is speech impaired. I had two late talkers. My oldest

Dakota was speech delayed due to birth trauma and he was in therapy

overseen by a neurologist from 2 weeks old. He thrived like your

son Dawn around the age of three and in a regular preschool. For a

child with a delay in speech -it's probably hard to find

an " inappropriate " placement in a regular preschool. Tanner on the

other hand had apraxia. Kids like that don't just start talking

just because you stick them in a preschool class -and worse if it's

not an appropriate placement it can even make things worse. Why?

Because children with apraxia know what's expected of them -and

it 'doesn't' just come to them. Punishment or bribes won't make

them talk either -they need compassion and therapy. (Have you guys

read The Late Talker?) "

<<Parent friendly signs of verbal apraxia... from a parent

Written By

May 28, 2010

If it were me, I'd probably go the School district route since you get all

of that therapy without having to pay extra for it, but I can understand how

you'd want him in a regular preschool. I had my son in a regular mother's

day out before he was diagnosed and they knew he was delayed but I was up

there everyday crying because they had no patience for a non-cookie cutter

child. It sounds like the teacher at your preschool might be different

though. I know that must be a hard decision!

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Greta

Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:39 PM

Subject: [ ] Need help regarding preschool...special

education vs. private

Okay...I really need some help deciding here. My son is almost 3 and he does

qualify for special education preschool through the school district. He has

severe apraxia, hypotonia, auditory processing and sensory issues.

Currently we do speech and OT 2x a week for each at the Kaufman Center. The

service there is great and he's making progress in his speech, however

declining in other areas, but I guess that's expected.

I had my son signed up for a local private school where we love the teacher,

love her to death. She's fabulous. She wants to work with Holden. However,

she has no experience kids like him. She may want to try and make it work,

but it might not work like she is thinking. She would work with him, give

him more time...and just kind of help him along. BUT, I just don't know how

much can be put into one kid before it's too much. She won't be able to

understand him first of all and the list just goes on. He's has very low

muscle tone...I worry about him getting hurt. He's extremely loud and he

just doesn't get it. Obviously this is all being worked on. If we do private

preschool he would go 2 days a weeks and still do his private speech with

Kaufman. I love this program...my daughter loved it, so I want to make it

work.

The special education preschool is 4 days a week and during that time he

will see a SLP, OT and PT. And, since it's special education...all the other

issues will be handled accordingly. He will still attend Kaufman Center. I

feel if I don't have him go here, I'm missing out on so much therapy that is

offered for free. And, the school system is very good. The special education

program is perfect. They've offered us speech, OT and PT without a fight.

Right now we are doing EI.

So...someone....anyone....please help me! Any advice or BTDT?

Thanks,

Greta

May 28, 2010

You already have a lot of good advice posted, but I wanted to share another

possibility. My daughter is severely apraxic and will be attending a private

preschool in the fall. She does not qualify for the public special needs

classroom, as it is so crowded that children must have two areas of significant

delay to qualify and her only area of deficit is speech. Option B for us is

that she will attend private pre-school but her therapist will come to the

preschool to provide her services. Her therapist is very familiar with the

preschool and teachers and she has been providing services at this preschool for

years. Prior to the beginning of the school year, I will meet with the

preschool staff to go over my daughter's IEP and give them suggestions for

making her year successful. Knowing that her intelligibility will be a problem,

I am taking pro-active steps to help everyone. I purchased a pocket chart (for

a dollar at Target)and have printed out PECS that will be placed in the chart in

the classroom.

Making choices regarding our kids and education is difficult but it is a

blessing to have choices available. Good luck making your choice and let us

know how it all works out for you.

Best wishes,

Deb

(mom of four amazing kiddos and certified SLP)

>

> Okay...I really need some help deciding here. My son is almost 3 and he does

> qualify for special education preschool through the school district. He has

> severe apraxia, hypotonia, auditory processing and sensory issues.

>

> Currently we do speech and OT 2x a week for each at the Kaufman Center. The

> service there is great and he's making progress in his speech, however

> declining in other areas, but I guess that's expected.

>

> I had my son signed up for a local private school where we love the teacher,

> love her to death. She's fabulous. She wants to work with Holden. However,

> she has no experience kids like him. She may want to try and make it work,

> but it might not work like she is thinking. She would work with him, give

> him more time...and just kind of help him along. BUT, I just don't know how

> much can be put into one kid before it's too much. She won't be able to

> understand him first of all and the list just goes on. He's has very low

> muscle tone...I worry about him getting hurt. He's extremely loud and he

> just doesn't get it. Obviously this is all being worked on. If we do private

> preschool he would go 2 days a weeks and still do his private speech with

> Kaufman. I love this program...my daughter loved it, so I want to make it

> work.

>

> The special education preschool is 4 days a week and during that time he

> will see a SLP, OT and PT. And, since it's special education...all the other

> issues will be handled accordingly. He will still attend Kaufman Center. I

> feel if I don't have him go here, I'm missing out on so much therapy that is

> offered for free. And, the school system is very good. The special education

> program is perfect. They've offered us speech, OT and PT without a fight.

> Right now we are doing EI.

>

> So...someone....anyone....please help me! Any advice or BTDT?

>

> Thanks,

> Greta

>

May 28, 2010

Definitely go with the special education preschool because they have all the

equipment your son will need as well as the therapists who know exactly how to

treat him. If you're in a bigger county (I'm in Lenawee), the SpEd preschool

might be mixed with head start so he'll get exposure to lots of other kids who

don't have disabilities.

My daughter Caryn is 4 years old and has severe speech apraxia and hypotonia,

too. She is finishing up her first year of special education preschool (we moved

from a much smaller county up north that didn't have a preschool like the one

she's in now, which is why she got started a year late). In addition to her

preschool therapy, she's also been seeing a speech therapist outside at the

University of Michigan's Medrehab Milestones in Ann Arbor. The improvement has

been amazing. When she first walked into preschool at the beginning of the year

(she started in late October) she was still using her Kay and was

virtually impossible for anyone who was unfamiliar with her to understand (even

though she had been seeing a speech path for about a year and a half who wasn't

familiar the Kaufman method until I introduced it to her, so she wasn't

effective. Grrr.) Now my daughter is running and her speech is so much more

intelligible (both her Spec Ed and private Speech Paths are very familiar with

and use the Kaufman method). As an example: just yesterday my 2 year old son,

Hank, was screaming for his Buzz Lightyear as we were getting into the car. My

daughter said to me, " Hant Buzz in de haws. " It was pretty damn cool.

So I would definitely say put him in the special education preschool. He will

benefit so much more from that than from a preschool with staff who don't have

any training or experience working with apraxic kids.

Kim, mom of Caryn, speech apraxia and hypotonia

>

> Okay...I really need some help deciding here. My son is almost 3 and he does

qualify for special education preschool through the school district. He has

severe apraxia, hypotonia, auditory processing and sensory issues.

>

> Currently we do speech and OT 2x a week for each at the Kaufman Center. The

service there is great and he's making progress in his speech, however declining

in other areas, but I guess that's expected.

>

> I had my son signed up for a local private school where we love the teacher,

love her to death. She's fabulous. She wants to work with Holden. However,

she has no experience kids like him. She may want to try and make it work, but

it might not work like she is thinking. She would work with him, give him more

time...and just kind of help him along. BUT, I just don't know how much can be

put into one kid before it's too much. She won't be able to understand him

first of all and the list just goes on. He's has very low muscle tone...I worry

about him getting hurt. He's extremely loud and he just doesn't get it.

Obviously this is all being worked on. If we do private preschool he would go 2

days a weeks and still do his private speech with Kaufman. I love this

program...my daughter loved it, so I want to make it work.

>

> The special education preschool is 4 days a week and during that time he will

see a SLP, OT and PT. And, since it's special education...all the other issues

will be handled accordingly. He will still attend Kaufman Center. I feel if I

don't have him go here, I'm missing out on so much therapy that is offered for

free. And, the school system is very good. The special education program is

perfect. They've offered us speech, OT and PT without a fight. Right now we

are doing EI.

>

> So...someone....anyone....please help me! Any advice or BTDT?

>

> Thanks,

> Greta

>

May 28, 2010

Thank you so much to everyone for the great replies! , I have to read your

entire post of archives...I skimmed it but will read it further when kids are in

bed! I've read your book, I borrowed it from the library. Looks like I need to

make a trip to Borders tonight I've been reading around here and FB for a

few months. Right now we use Nordic Naturals 3.6.9 and EPA (2 capsules each).

May 28, 2010

I'm in Oakland county in Royal Oak schools. The preschool is not mixed with

Head Start, but they did say that at some point in the school year the kids do

mingle/mix with the other preschools in the building. The other preschools are

all private...there's quite a few there. They said there's a wide variety of

kids...although you do have to have global delays to get in

> >

> > Okay...I really need some help deciding here. My son is almost 3 and he

does qualify for special education preschool through the school district. He

has severe apraxia, hypotonia, auditory processing and sensory issues.

> >

> > Currently we do speech and OT 2x a week for each at the Kaufman Center. The

service there is great and he's making progress in his speech, however declining

in other areas, but I guess that's expected.

> >

> > I had my son signed up for a local private school where we love the teacher,