Introduction and questions re Fish oils and NV

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I have been reading here for a couple of weeks now, and thought it was about

time to introduce myself and ask some questions.

I have twins who just turned 3 last month. Aidan had global delays, hypotonia,

severe reflux and feeding problems (at age 15m him GI doc wanted to give him a

g-tube for failure to thrive), his twin Niamh had speech delays but was advanced

in her motor skills. They both started an " infant toddler development program "

through EI at 18m and started individual ST a couple of months later.We have

just transitioned to school district and Aidan is doing well enough he no longer

qualifies for services.

We had been suspecting that Niamh might have Apraxia for about 6 months, but got

the formal diagnosis in March. The SD has provided ST 30 min 3x weekly for the

last month, and I also private paid (no insurance ST coverage) ST 1hr weekly

with her previous EI SLP for the last month. I just stopped the private ST this

week (long drive, plus $$). She has made a lot of progress in the last few

months and now talks in sentences (4-5 words+) often, but still has a limited

sound repertoire, drops many beginning and ending sounds, makes inconsistent

errors, will often resort to grunting or gestures and has poor intelligibilty (I

understand a lot of what she says in context but for strangers her

intelligibilty is about 25%). School year has just ended but she will get ESY

with 3x weekly ST for 4 weeks. I think she also has word retrieval issues- but

at least seems to get words from the same category (eg she has known her colors

for some time but some days she will call a black car white or a yellow flower

red etc and be totally sure she is right, but then a couple of hours later she

identifies the colors correctly, she also does this with other categories eg

food or birds).

We don't currently have her on any supplements, but I would like to try both the

fish oil and NV.

Is it a good idea to have her on the fish oil for a while before adding the NV ?

How long ?

What is the best dose of Fish oil and which product ? (I did have her on Nordic

Naturals complete omega 3.6.9 liquid in the past, but didn't see any noticeable

changes, I ran out a couple of months ago). Any recommended places to buy them

(the one I used last time was all I could find locally)

Will 3 year olds typically eat the capsules or do you usually have to squeeze

out the oil ?(in the past I used a liquid, but as I'll be travelling in a month

capsules might be easier to take). She is usually easy to give meds too (her

twin isn't, I orginally bought the liquid lemon fish oil for him but never got

him to take it).

With the NV I read the dose is 1 scoop a day for 3 y.o.s. Does the open can need

refrigeration ? How long does a can last at a scoop a day?

Thanks,

mum to

Aidan and Niamh (3y)

6y

[Guest guest]

Hi and welcome!!

One thing I want to start with is catch yourself anytime you hear yourself

saying about your 3 YO " I think she also has word retrieval issues " and give

yourself a kick from me ...and if you hear anyone else saying it don't kick

them but inform them that a verbal disability is a disability and we can't judge

a child or adult's cognitive or receptive ability on their expressive.

Not that your child has any hearing impairment but the way they test a child

with a hearing impairment would be more appropriate. Also whenever there is an

impairment in any area the child has more to deal with. So in addition to

regular growing up kid stuff- our special needs children have more on their

plate. Give him/them time and just repeat the right answer. I can assure you

that the majority of the children in this group grow up to be mainstreamed and

good students. A verbal disability does not go hand in hand with cognitive or

receptive issues. Not shockingly however -outside of this group...the stats are

frightening how many speech impaired children will be misclassified and fall

through the cracks. This is an area that we as parents have to work together to

change. they did it for many other types of special needs -the most well known

of course the hearing impaired population which has tremendous advocacy today.

think about this. You walk into a mall and a person walks up to you and asks

" where is the bathroom " and they say it slow and awkward. You....naturally go

into parentese, speaking s..l..o..w.. and a bit higher and very distinct.

pronouncing clearly each syllable.

Now the person turns their head and you see a hearing aid and realize " Oh they

are deaf " INSTANTLY your impression changes. That's not just your impression

-it's society. Any adult with even a minor articulation issue is judged -which

is why any of us that has a child with a speech impairment should NEVER let our

guard down for protection.

About the fish oils -you had them on the right oils already. If you didn't see

surges at all they may be part of the 20 percent that are non responders. It's

still healthy and who knows -maybe once you start nutriiveda you can after a

month or so re introduce the fish oils and try again. You could use one capsule

a day and if you are in the UK -look into EyeQ as you can buy that in the stores

there and it's comparable to ProEFA. I'm taking it you are from the UK based on

the way you wrote -and if you are you'd have to order through this page

https://nutraeasy.com/pursuit/order_pursuit_intl.html instead.

Nutriiveda is a powder and doesn't require refrigeration- as a matter of fact me

and my family are on our way to Disney today and we have our nutriiveda in a

plastic baggie that we'll make later in the park...healthy and inexpensive meal!

Tada!! (and for those of you that have ever gone to Disney -you tell me where

you can find a " meal " for 2.70?!! Even water is 3 bucks!!! - we bring our own

water too) OK we still eat at Disney- but clearly nutriiveda is awesome to take

the edge of hunger off- and get some healthy nutrients at the same time

Why on the way to Disney??? My son Tanner who is the reason I started this

group (well together with his brother Dakota) the reason I wrote The Late Talker

book -and Tanner himself is the reason I found out that nutriiveda ROCKS!!!! If

you have any questions there are many answers here

http://pursuitofresearch.org/faq.html but if you have questions you don't see

there just ask away. I've probably heard them all at this point and have the

answer but just put the most popular up on that page.

Again welcome and -double hugs to you and the twins!!!

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. You were right in thinking I

am a Brit, but I currently live in California. The info on Uk brands of fish oil

is useful though as I will be there next month. I have never tried giving them

capsules before - can 3 year ols usually take them OK or should I expect to have

to puncture them and squeeze out the oil?

Aidan drinks homemade smoothies every day so it would be easy to mix it in his

smoothie, but Niamh is inconsistent in drinking hers, so I would be worried

about her not getting it all if I put it in a smoothie. Neither of them drink

chocolate milk, they will both drink juice - does the vanilla go in juice ok or

does the flavor usually put kids off ? Any other ways kids usually take it ?

(Niamh isn't in general a fussy eater, but has recently stopped wanting to drink

much milk, she does eat yoghurt if it would mix in that).

I think you misunderstood what I meant about the word retrieval issues. I really

don't think she has cognitive issues - I think she is a really bright little

girl, but that her brain misfires sometimes when she is trying to find a word

and something else comes out. I had mentioned what was happening to her private

SLP (who we just finished seeing). She said that it was something they see in a

subset of kids with Apraxia, and that it was something her new SLP should know

about, so that they could incorporate appropriate strategies into her therapy.

I just thought it was something that the NV might also help with.

Thanks,

Aidan and Niamh (just turned 3)

>

> Hi and welcome!!

>

> One thing I want to start with is catch yourself anytime you hear yourself

saying about your 3 YO " I think she also has word retrieval issues " and give

yourself a kick from me ...and if you hear anyone else saying it don't kick

them but inform them that a verbal disability is a disability and we can't judge

a child or adult's cognitive or receptive ability on their expressive.

>

> Not that your child has any hearing impairment but the way they test a child

with a hearing impairment would be more appropriate. Also whenever there is an

impairment in any area the child has more to deal with. So in addition to

regular growing up kid stuff- our special needs children have more on their

plate. Give him/them time and just repeat the right answer. I can assure you

that the majority of the children in this group grow up to be mainstreamed and

good students. A verbal disability does not go hand in hand with cognitive or

receptive issues. Not shockingly however -outside of this group...the stats are

frightening how many speech impaired children will be misclassified and fall

through the cracks. This is an area that we as parents have to work together to

change. they did it for many other types of special needs -the most well known

of course the hearing impaired population which has tremendous advocacy today.

>

> think about this. You walk into a mall and a person walks up to you and asks

" where is the bathroom " and they say it slow and awkward. You....naturally go

into parentese, speaking s..l..o..w.. and a bit higher and very distinct.

pronouncing clearly each syllable.

>

> Now the person turns their head and you see a hearing aid and realize " Oh they

are deaf " INSTANTLY your impression changes. That's not just your impression

-it's society. Any adult with even a minor articulation issue is judged -which

is why any of us that has a child with a speech impairment should NEVER let our

guard down for protection.

>

> About the fish oils -you had them on the right oils already. If you didn't

see surges at all they may be part of the 20 percent that are non responders.

It's still healthy and who knows -maybe once you start nutriiveda you can after

a month or so re introduce the fish oils and try again. You could use one

capsule a day and if you are in the UK -look into EyeQ as you can buy that in

the stores there and it's comparable to ProEFA. I'm taking it you are from the

UK based on the way you wrote -and if you are you'd have to order through this

page https://nutraeasy.com/pursuit/order_pursuit_intl.html instead.

>

> Nutriiveda is a powder and doesn't require refrigeration- as a matter of fact

me and my family are on our way to Disney today and we have our nutriiveda in a

plastic baggie that we'll make later in the park...healthy and inexpensive meal!

Tada!! (and for those of you that have ever gone to Disney -you tell me where

you can find a " meal " for 2.70?!! Even water is 3 bucks!!! - we bring our own

water too) OK we still eat at Disney- but clearly nutriiveda is awesome to take

the edge of hunger off- and get some healthy nutrients at the same time

>

> Why on the way to Disney??? My son Tanner who is the reason I started this

group (well together with his brother Dakota) the reason I wrote The Late Talker

book -and Tanner himself is the reason I found out that nutriiveda ROCKS!!!! If

you have any questions there are many answers here

http://pursuitofresearch.org/faq.html but if you have questions you don't see

there just ask away. I've probably heard them all at this point and have the

answer but just put the most popular up on that page.

>

> Again welcome and -double hugs to you and the twins!!!

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Hi !

Most parents don't give the children the capsule to swallow until older -but a

rare few have posted here to let us know that their young child likes to chew

the capsule to get out the oil and then spit the capsule out.

Most of us pierce the capsules and then squeeze the oil out -have you read the

fish oils 101 message here?

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=115029735601 & topic=7401 & post=40448#topic_t\

op

And here's info on how to get fish oils into a child

http://www.cherabfoundation.org/2006/how-do-i-get-my-child-to-eat-fish-oil

For sure when you are in the UK pick up some Eye Q. For those in this group

that tried ProEFA vs EyeQ most say there isn't much of a difference -both are

good, high quality brands. But it will be good for you to see if you notice a

difference- which one your child prefers the taste of more (or should I say

which one your child doesn't notice or hate as much!)

I don't know if there is a subset of kids with apraxia who have word retrieval

issues. I do know there is a subset of professionals that link a speech

impaired child's inability to express themselves with receptive issues and I

have issues with them. The reason I feel so strongly about providing the

benefit of the doubt? Well listen to my son Tanner at 11 here

http://www.debtsmart.net/talk/tanner.html (the top recording) -it's long but in

it he talks about the most frustrating thing is that at times his friends say a

word for him because they " think he doesn't know the word " but it's " not that he

doesn't know the word -he just is having trouble saying it " But he knows people

are just trying to help -he's asking for people to respect the fact that he does

know what he wants to say -he sometimes just can't say it. So I know firsthand

from a child that is old enough to talk about it that is the case. And yes

there were some poor professionals that believed Tanner had receptive issues

-and I fought them like a pit bull speaking about the guard dog topic that just

came up!

My thought to those professionals is why not provide these young verbal disabled

kids with the benefit of the doubt that they DO know what they want to say?

That they DON'T have word retrieval issues- but that they know exactly what they

want to say but just can't get those words out. To the extra help for word

retrieval I say " thanks for nothing " or should I say " more harm than good " ...I

for sure wouldn't accept just one opinion on this. it's a sore spot for me

because of the years I've advocated in this group and knowing the large number

of children that have grown up in this group who are now teens and young adults.

So many too were pegged wrong when younger before they developed alternate was

of communicating. I suggest to everyone to study the work of Dr.

Rosenthal.

About nutriiveda the flavor is a tough question because I'm a huge chocolate

nutriiveda fan. Most of my family loves the chocolate -but my oldest Dakota

LOVES the vanilla nutriiveda. And both boys keep trying to get the other to

" just try " their flavor more because they don't understand why the other prefers

the opposite flavor. I'd say if a child likes chocolate milk or pudding go with

the chocolate because it's easy to doctor up to start. If they don't like

chocolate milk or pudding stick with the vanilla as it's easier to mix with

fruit juices or oatmeal and yogurt etc. due to the color and flavor. Yes make

sure they get the full dosage as it appears to be dosage dependent for most even

though we've had more and more reports of surges even on lower dosages. Here

are some serving suggestions http://pursuitofresearch.org/faq.html#serve

Let me know if you have any questions- nutriiveda is on my list of favorite

things in the world for what it's done for my family -especially my son

Tanner!!!

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

thanks for the links on getting the children to take the fish oils - they were

very useful.

I did go ahead and order the NV and proefa a couple of days ago. I ordered it

from the speech411.com cherab site so that I could just get 1 can of vanilla,

that way if she doesn't like it I'll try the chocolate for the next can.

I'm hoping that the NV will arrive sometime next week so I can get her started

next week, but I had a question about starting the proefa. You had suggested

starting it a month or so after the NV. In the archives I have read about when

some kids start the NV and are already on the proefa they can have a rough week

or 2 behavior wise when they first start the NV. For kids who are on the NV

first, and then you add in the proefa do you also tend to see behavior, sleep

etc issues when you add the proefa or just the first week or 2 of the NV ?

The reason I'm asking is that about a month after we will start the NV, we fly

to Europe for a month. I wouldn't add anything new the first week of the trip

whilst she is dealing with jetlag, but if there is a significent chance of

problems after adding the proefa, then maybe I should wait until after we get

home (but that would mean we wouldn't start until the beginning of Sept which is

also when she is due to start preschool).

Thanks,

Mum to twins Aidan and Niamh (Apraxia)- just turned 3y

6y

>

> Hi !

>

> Most parents don't give the children the capsule to swallow until older -but a

rare few have posted here to let us know that their young child likes to chew

the capsule to get out the oil and then spit the capsule out.

>

> Most of us pierce the capsules and then squeeze the oil out -have you read the

fish oils 101 message here?

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=115029735601 & topic=7401 & post=40448#topic_t\

op

>

> And here's info on how to get fish oils into a child

http://www.cherabfoundation.org/2006/how-do-i-get-my-child-to-eat-fish-oil

>

> For sure when you are in the UK pick up some Eye Q. For those in this group

that tried ProEFA vs EyeQ most say there isn't much of a difference -both are

good, high quality brands. But it will be good for you to see if you notice a

difference- which one your child prefers the taste of more (or should I say

which one your child doesn't notice or hate as much!)

>

> I don't know if there is a subset of kids with apraxia who have word retrieval

issues. I do know there is a subset of professionals that link a speech

impaired child's inability to express themselves with receptive issues and I

have issues with them. The reason I feel so strongly about providing the

benefit of the doubt? Well listen to my son Tanner at 11 here

http://www.debtsmart.net/talk/tanner.html (the top recording) -it's long but in

it he talks about the most frustrating thing is that at times his friends say a

word for him because they " think he doesn't know the word " but it's " not that he

doesn't know the word -he just is having trouble saying it " But he knows people

are just trying to help -he's asking for people to respect the fact that he does

know what he wants to say -he sometimes just can't say it. So I know firsthand

from a child that is old enough to talk about it that is the case. And yes

there were some poor professionals that believed Tanner had receptive issues

-and I fought them like a pit bull speaking about the guard dog topic that just

came up!

>

> My thought to those professionals is why not provide these young verbal

disabled kids with the benefit of the doubt that they DO know what they want to

say? That they DON'T have word retrieval issues- but that they know exactly

what they want to say but just can't get those words out. To the extra help for

word retrieval I say " thanks for nothing " or should I say " more harm than

good " ...I for sure wouldn't accept just one opinion on this. it's a sore

spot for me because of the years I've advocated in this group and knowing the

large number of children that have grown up in this group who are now teens and

young adults. So many too were pegged wrong when younger before they developed

alternate was of communicating. I suggest to everyone to study the work of Dr.

Rosenthal.

>

> About nutriiveda the flavor is a tough question because I'm a huge chocolate

nutriiveda fan. Most of my family loves the chocolate -but my oldest Dakota

LOVES the vanilla nutriiveda. And both boys keep trying to get the other to

" just try " their flavor more because they don't understand why the other prefers

the opposite flavor. I'd say if a child likes chocolate milk or pudding go with

the chocolate because it's easy to doctor up to start. If they don't like

chocolate milk or pudding stick with the vanilla as it's easier to mix with

fruit juices or oatmeal and yogurt etc. due to the color and flavor. Yes make

sure they get the full dosage as it appears to be dosage dependent for most even

though we've had more and more reports of surges even on lower dosages. Here

are some serving suggestions http://pursuitofresearch.org/faq.html#serve

>

> Let me know if you have any questions- nutriiveda is on my list of favorite

things in the world for what it's done for my family -especially my son

Tanner!!!

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

based on what's going on with your trip to Europe coming up (and have super

fun!!) I would start nutriiveda first and only wait a week to start the fish

oils. I explain why below but thought I'd share the synopsis first as I tend to

write so much people may not always see my point

The only reason I said to wait a month was for you to see which is doing what in

helping -but you can always do the opposite and for a day or so stop one or the

other down the road and see where the regression is. Ironically one area of

regression for both is...behavior -as well as speech.

Typically the majority of people that post here are excited or upset for the

most part- then there are those that answer questions. You don't always see the

norm as you do at a support group -or when you run a support group and you are

the " go to " person that hears more than is posted. Not everyone that starts a

child on fish oil or nutiriveda notices that temporary stage of change in

behavior. Even if it always happens -sometimes it's so subtle it's not noticed

-so almost a non issue. That would not be the reason I'd start nutriiveda

first.

I do know there are many similarities between supplementing with the essential

fatty acids (fish oils) and essential amino acids and nutrients from whole food

sources (nutriiveda) and a few differences- I'll outline them quickly

Fish oils

Have positive affects in the majority of our group, if I had to guess I'd say

somewhere around 80 percent? Most see surges in a day to three weeks almost

across the board when on the " right " formula of fish oil. Some children have

mild loose stools or changes in behavior the first week or so -during this time

we found it best to perhaps lower the dosage a bit and not stop it...and when

that stage passed the surge would be next. Regression off and surge on were

pretty quick- so if you run out of oils or forget to give them you may be afraid

of the regression -but once back on they'll surge again.

Nutiiveda

Have positive affects in the majority of who has tried it. As unlikely as this

sounds it appears to be over 90 percent. There are some professionals who have

numerous patients on nutriiveda and in those cases it's creating surges in each

one so remarkable. Most see the first surges in a day to a few days but there

are a few that reported it took a few weeks but that is rare. Some children may

have constipation which is temporary and typically due to not enough hydration.

some children have changes in behavior. Some parents may refer to this change

as " hyper " but it's more of a sudden awareness to all that is around them.

Unlike fish oils the positive surges will happen at the same time. Just like

fish oils dosage can be lowered during this time, however most report

regressions in speech when this happens. The regressions off and surges back on

are exactly the same as fish oils. Hydration is important with nutriiveda as I

talk about here http://pursuitofresearch.org/faq.html#serve

So as I said above due to your upcoming exciting travel - I wouldn't wait a

month between starting the two -I'd maybe give it a week.

I'd start nutriiveda first because with nutriiveda you have to make sure they

are hydrated as I note above (and it's a long plane ride to Europe- easier to

get a bit dehydrated) and the first week or two is when you go through the

natural detox stage due to the essential amino acids raising the glutathione

naturally as I talk about here http://pursuitofresearch.org/science.html (by the

way I did update this page but the webmaster hasn't put it up yet)

Here is the lovely part: During the natural detox- if hydrated he should

typically have a larger than normal for him amount of not loose but soft and

very foul smelling poops (due to detox)- better to get over that prior to

travel- the people on the plane will thank you.

In my opinion, as well as in the opinion of Mother Nature- both are good to use

together because both are essential; both contain essential nutrients that the

body needs but can't produce itself so needs to consume but most of our children

and us don't eat healthy enough -or nutrients are missing from the soils etc.

You should notice surges from Nutriiveda in a day to a few days -so a week

should be fine to just add fish oils too. I typically would give it a month

between so you can clearly see what is doing what -but due to the upcoming trip

-I wouldn't wait more than a week.

JMO

=====