Re: Re: apraxia and autism diagnosis--what is the difference

[Guest guest]

No , apraxia and autism are distinct disorders--HOWEVER___they are both

on the neurological disorder continuum. As many as 50% of ASD kids can and do

have apraxia--just doesn't get identified and treated as such because everyone

says they're autistic, so of course they have speech problems. It's sad because

they need motor planning therapy to improve their speech.

And also many apraxic only kids do have the so called " neurological soft signs "

as per ASHA--these include again many autistic spectrum type issues with sensory

dysfunction, hypotonia, or more global dyspraxia, oral apraxia, etc etc.  no

matter how you slice it and what you call it, it is on the neurological damage

continuum and it all depends what brain areas are affected. The reasons are

often the same--oxidative stress on the brain and they often if not always

involve metabolic processing and immune problems.

So you cna be autistic and not apraxic, but many ASD kids are apraxic, and you

can definitely be apraxic and NOT autistic--but you still are dealing with

oxidative stress on the brain due to physical/chemical factors and it still

amoi=ounts to brain damage--just various degrees.

the biomedical and therapeutical treatments are often the same--according to

each child's genetic background and environmental exposures. 

I know it is hard for parents to understand and accept--but apraxia does amount

to brain damage for some reason known or unknown--oxidative stress is always a

factor, mitochondrial dysfunction is always a factor, faulty metabolic processes

and malabsorptions feeding the brain are always a factor and what you call it

doesn't matter--each child needs to be assessed on all these dimensions and

appropriate therapy and biomedical interventions implemented. This is what

DANs--do in theory--but this is what parents must educate themselves about to

find the right medical professionals to help them navigate this maze and heal

their children. There's so much hope!  The neuroscience research and

microbiology research is all there, in the medical journals--it is clincal

practice that is decades behind, barely over the " refrigirator mom " theory of

autism and only dispensing drugs when a more appropriate metabolic evaluation is

warranted for these children and the

removal of what does NOT belong in their bodies is warranted--read toxins they

cannot process and read themselves of as most kids/people can, and supplementing

the missing and even vital brain nutrients that should be there but aren't. 

Fish oil is just the tip of the iceberg but there's so much more. there's so

much hope if ponly parents do their researcha nd demand better treatments and

understnading of the biological causes of neurological disorders from their

doctors--mainstream or alternative or DAN trained physicians. 

Parent sneed to step up to the responsibility of understanding and helping find

the right medical professionals to treat their neurologically damaged child. 

Just like we seek appropriate SLPs and OTs and educators and programs, this

biologicla facet of neurological disorders is in fact the msot important aspect

if all the therpies are to evne have a chance.

Before e implemented appropriate diet/supplements for my apraxic ONLY daughter 3

local apraxia experts declared they could not work with her because she was too

difficult and noncompliant. 

Fast froward many supplements and GF CF  plus other restricted foods diet along

with appropriate detoxification and MB12 shots for brain methylation --and she

can and often does speak in full sentences, mainstreamed in kindergarten and

--still apraxic,  particularly at the multisyllabic level but making HUGE

progress everyday.  her hypotonia improved, her fine motor skills, her focus,

her attention, her ability to stay organized and follow through on tasks... Her

initial evaluators who told me she might even be autistic at almost 3 because

she had less than 5 real words and refused to follow anything and just tantrumed

all the time would be very surprised--but therapy alone could NOT have achieved

all this, not if the brain was not ready--- healed enough to receive it and

apply it outside the therapy sessions.

Best of health to all,

Elena

     

[

[Guest guest]

, there is a lot of overlap between some apraxic symptoms and behaviors

and ASD.  As I said, some ASD kids have apraxia--not all, but ASD is a more

severe diagnosis which entails greater brain damage.  Yes, all neurological

disorders mena brain differences--which in effect are some degree of brain

damage--the pathways that normally carry out those circuits and processes are

impaired and new pathways can be created. the brain is very plastic especially

in kids, and there is a lot of hope for kids with neurological disorders if we

understand how to approach their needs and how to help their bodies and brains

heal and also provide the appropriate therapies that help them catch up But you

need all of these and it takes a team of professionals--doctors, educators,

therapists--and lots of LOVE patience. ---But you lknow that already

Don't let the word brain damage scare you, or autism or apraxia or anything

neurological that makes your child's development lag behind now and behaviors

impossible to deal with.  Very often kids who cannot speak, and express  their

needs wants will exhibit behaviors that are very strange to us and yes, they

cannot explain things, and negotiate, they can only scream and cry--and for

those who do not know who see sensory issues and behavioral problems and lack of

speech--that's quite a big chunk of the ASD diagnosis but the social emotional

component is different in apraxic kids who are not ASD.  Some apraxic kids act

out their frustrations in very inapropriat eand self damaging ways, they head

bang, bite themselves--they also tend to ahve sensory problems--physical motor

planning problems along with the speech ones, low tone, --my daughter toe walked

on and off, oral apraxia so they cannot chew or over stuff their mouth--my

daughter had this mildly

and still exhibits a hypotoinic tongue at times--so there is a lot of overlap. 

The difference is you can reach apraxic kids easier and they respond better,

quicker.  They are not as impaired but causes ar eoften vvery similar as are the

biomedicla interventions--diet--supplements--which are all very individualized

as are the therapies. You address each problem separately and see what helps the

child improve.  The diagnosis matters more for insurance purposes--and watch

outr for codes they do NOT cover and for school services--but in the end you

treat the child regardless of what it says on paper that s/he has. You treat the

symptoms and remove waht does not belong in the body and provide the missing

nutrients as you will see most if not all of these kids will have missing vital

nutrients and these are in part responsible for the behaviors and problems.   

But it takes a lot of investigations and experienced professionals, a lot of

observation and

determination on the part of the parents to work together with the medical

professionals--just like in therapy and school.

Can the child relate to peers, seeks them out wants to be with them?  --this is

the major differentiating factor --how well they integrate sociually and

emotionally, how much empathy they show and are they only in their own world.

The tics and repeted behaviors are common for other neurologicla disorders and

are not a clear ASD sign, nor is the lining ducks up in a row.  I mean come on,

isn't this how they actually swim in the lake--the chicks get behind the mother

duck??--Some kids are more observant than others and will line them up as

they've seen them and they do not have to be ASD.  My daughter lined them up

because this is what she saw on the lake and she has a very good memory. She

also lined up trains and cars because they too go in a line on the roads. But

she did not line up EVERYTHING--and this is the difference.  So seek you medical

professionals wisely--a wrong diagnosis can mean WRONG TREATMENT--therapy wise

that is--the biomedical is a

whole other story and even more caution is warranted there but don't

worry--there ar eplenty of parents with success stories to learn from and books

to read and jounal articles to familiarize you with all the nissues tha tapply

to your child.  the INTERNET is access to information and this empowers us as

parents and helps us understand our special kids and help them better.

My daughter had a lot of these " neurological soft signs " and her apraxia was

very severe at 3.5--barely could say mama and not always not at will--her motor

planning was terrible even though she always made independent sounds--all of

them--just not real words, couldn't sequence the sounds to form words

consistently. So she had these  idiosyncrasies which occur when there is brain

damage--but she was too social and tuned in emotionally to be ASD.  And i read

and learned that many social and behavioral deficits can be caused by lack of

speech.  It's not that she did not want to interact with peers and showed no

interest, but she couldn't--and she did as best as she could with signs,

gestures grunts and screaming and crying when all else failed poor kid.

A developmental pediatrician will give you a differential diagnosis--maybe--some

really do not know aporaxia and are embarrassed to say so so they tip toe around

a PDD NOS whoch leaves you no-where.

So regardless if your child is ASD or not, he may have apraxia and the SLP is

the one who can add this diagnosis too. You want this to get appropriate

treatment for apraxia --1:1 PROMPT etc. and not just group socialization ASD

type speech therapy. that too is importnat but will NOT help an apraxic child

progress with speech--ASD or not. So they can and do coexist often enough. it is

importnat to know if ASD is present to work differently on behavioral and

Asocial skils-i.e. ABA RDI etc.

And either way, after you nail the diagnosis just ASD or just apraxia or

both--what ever--do consider biomedicla interventions for your child--they are

recommended for all kids with neurological disorders regardless of what the

disorder is--you want to optimize neurological functioning and give therapy the

best chance to succeed.  Good luck!

Elena

From: cynthia mendoza <cm2003uh@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: apraxia and autism diagnosis--what is the

difference

Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 4:10 PM

Okay, so I am having the problem right now of trying to figure out if my son has

autism.  He is 3.5 and he has some sensory issues and motor issues.  He also

does not play very well by himself but he will imitate play if you play with

him.  I know for sure that he does have Verbal Apraxia.  Do Apraxic children

tend to repeat things?

 

I like what you said about how either way Apraxia and Autism are neurological

disorders and they should be treated as such.  Is it safe to say that the

difference between Apraxic and Autistic children is the way they " use " their

speech?  Is it true that Autistic children tend to babble or use speech

inappropriately (out of context)?

 

The reason I ask this is because one of the questions that was on a

questionnaire was " can your child carry a conversation or inititate

conversation " .  My child cannot do this but because of his Apraxia. 

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi Elena,

 

Thank you for responding, you have been very helpful.  You confirmed everything

I've been thinking.  My son definitely has some soft signs but I don't think he

is Autistic.  I am taking him to a developmental pediatrician in 1 week and he

is supposed to be the best in town.  I have a feeling I'm going to walk out of

there with a PDD diagnosis.  I've already been told that he is not sure if he

can diagnose Apraxia since it is something that is rare and needs to be looked

at over time.  However, the speech pathologist has confirmed that he has Verbal

Apraxia.

 

My question now is what do I do about school.  I'm lost...the district wants to

push PPCD and I don't think he really needs that.  He is not really getting

what he needs in a regular private school because they are basically letting him

do his own thing and he does need occupational therapy.  So if I do end up with

a PDD diagnosis, should I send him to a private special ed. school?  I don't

know what to do...and at the same time I know how important it is to treat his

Apraxia.  Is school and socialization really that important right now?  He is

only 3.5.  I've thought about just quitting my job and keeping him at home and

taking him to his speech therapy/occupational therapy, scheduling play dates,

and working with him at home.  I am a teacher for goodness sake.  But everyone

is worried about how he is going to perform in Kindergarten.  Right now, don't

you think I just need to really worry about getting him to talk and not worry so

much about

his behaviors.  So he has a few quirks, don't we all!  He has only been in

speech therapy for 6 months and he is doing pretty well.  I'd say I can

understand him now about 25% of the time. 

 

I definitely want to change his diet.  I am going to purchase the book that you

recommended.  I think it will make a huge difference!  Sometimes I feel like

something is trying to take over his brain...I know that sounds really psycho

and strange but thats the way I feel because 1 minute he will be completely

normal and then the next minute he goes into this other mood.  He is really

moody.  He is really happy sometimes and then the next he is crying for no

reason.  The only time he really sits still is if he is rolling his train back

and forth, if he is watching t.v., or if I am playing with him.  Otherwise, he

is roaming around trying to figure out what to do.  Here lately, he keeps

telling me that he wants to go bye bye but when I ask him " where he wants to go "

he can't tell me.  I'm worried that the doctor is going to suggest medicine and

I don't want to do that! 

[Guest guest]

, one thing I waqs very concerned about was my daughter being with normal

peers in her preschool, and we took her to a private preschool with a mix of

special needs (ASD) and neurotical kids. Half and half they claimed but it was

less. I also took her to a regualr preschool with low child teacher ratio and

stayed with ther for the first 2 months to translate and help with signing. i

strongly recommend signing for your child, the 's Signing Times

DVds helped us to the point where we no longer had the bad tantrums and even now

she will sign when I cannot understand what she is saying.

So gradually I just left her in the regular low child teacher ratio preschool

and she always did great there, it was like a family with 3 staff members and

less than 12 kids most of the time so it worked out well. Shi is nnow in

regtular kindergarten and doing fine, needs some help with sequencing numbers

and her apraxia is still present but she functions well and her handwriting is

almost there --we get private speech OT 4 and 1 time a week--next year her IEP

kicks in and will get more language help at schhool but will keep the private

PROMPT just reduce it perhaps.

So i cna tell you that her progress has been AMAZING. Bu6t the biomed made the

first difference and allowed the therpies and educational approaches to begin to

work with her. 

Again, get the SLP to write a letter if yoiu do not ahve a full report but get

tht too and the doctor can recommend it so insurance HAQS TO COVER A FULL SPEECH

AND LANGUAGE EVAQLUATION>

And that can be your ticket.

If your doctor was so tentative about the apraxia from the start do not go

without the SLPs letter, you may regret it if you end yup with something else,

yes she will have to give a diagnosis and it may not be anything you want. there

was a recent post just now saying they want to get the PDDNOS off the list of

diagnosis and this may mean even less coverage, it cna get really tricky and the

child really may not have an ASD diagnosis to begin with--apraxia with soft

signs is neurologicla and as I said a lot of overlap. Take the Late Taker book

with you to the doctor. Make her read it!! She cannot give a diagnosis for what

she knows because she doesn't know apraxia,--it's absurd. And medicating a 3.5

year old who cannot speak is criminal so don't even think about it.   i cannot

imagine a doctor suggesting this and if they do--LEAVE, just walk out, and don't

even bother to say goodbye. 

Good luck anbd yes, the gluten casein do take over their brains, literally.

There are many other books, resources I cna send you. And you are familiar with

Dr. 's research.  --the article that has been circulating for a while now

on this list. Take it with you.

Take care and good luck!

Elena

From: cynthia mendoza <cm2003uh@...>

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: apraxia and autism diagnosis--what is the

difference

Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:37 AM

Hi Elena,

 

Thank you for responding, you have been very helpful.  You confirmed everything

I've been thinking.  My son definitely has some soft signs but I don't think he

is Autistic.  I am taking him to a developmental pediatrician in 1 week and he

is supposed to be the best in town.  I have a feeling I'm going to walk out of

there with a PDD diagnosis.  I've already been told that he is not sure if he

can diagnose Apraxia since it is something that is rare and needs to be looked

at over time.  However, the speech pathologist has confirmed that he has Verbal

Apraxia.

 

My question now is what do I do about school.  I'm lost...the district wants to

push PPCD and I don't think he really needs that.  He is not really getting what

he needs in a regular private school because they are basically letting him do

his own thing and he does need occupational therapy.  So if I do end up with a

PDD diagnosis, should I send him to a private special ed. school?  I don't know

what to do...and at the same time I know how important it is to treat his

Apraxia.  Is school and socialization really that important right now?  He is

only 3.5.  I've thought about just quitting my job and keeping him at home and

taking him to his speech therapy/occupational therapy, scheduling play dates,

and working with him at home.  I am a teacher for goodness sake.  But everyone

is worried about how he is going to perform in Kindergarten.  Right now, don't

you think I just need to really worry about getting him to talk and not worry so

much about

his behaviors.  So he has a few quirks, don't we all!  He has only been in

speech therapy for 6 months and he is doing pretty well.  I'd say I can

understand him now about 25% of the time. 

 

I definitely want to change his diet.  I am going to purchase the book that you

recommended.  I think it will make a huge difference!  Sometimes I feel like

something is trying to take over his brain...I know that sounds really psycho

and strange but thats the way I feel because 1 minute he will be completely

normal and then the next minute he goes into this other mood.  He is really

moody.  He is really happy sometimes and then the next he is crying for no

reason.  The only time he really sits still is if he is rolling his train back

and forth, if he is watching t.v., or if I am playing with him.  Otherwise, he

is roaming around trying to figure out what to do.  Here lately, he keeps

telling me that he wants to go bye bye but when I ask him " where he wants to go "

he can't tell me.  I'm worried that the doctor is going to suggest medicine and

I don't want to do that! 

------------------------------------