RE: chiropractors?

[Guest guest]

Mel Siff wrote:

<< Rosemary, you will find that if you, patiently and in a sense of personal

exploration, expose your body to variety of different movement, relaxation,

massage, bathing, meditative, training or trigger point activities, it will

once again 'reset' itself, much like when you close a certain computer

program or restart the machine to stop the beast from freezing, giving you

all sorts of error messages or simply being perverse in some or other way.

Though I have visited various PTs, medics and chiropractors in the past, I

can honestly say that almost every musculoskeletal problem that I have

experienced has been personally resolved in this manner. >>

Here is my interesting personal experience with chiropractors. Some 18 years

ago,

in high school I participated in football, basketball, and track. The

continual pounding of tackling and being tackled on the football field led me

to my father's chiropractor for relief. The crunching feeling of the

adjustments were similar to the crunches I had felt in collisions on the

football field. Only, these made me feel better the next day.

Once or twice each basketball season, the constant jumping and landing caused

me to end up with back spasms. The kind where the only relief is to lie flat

on your back on the floor, with no movement. " Back " to the chiropractor

where I went through X-rays, evaluations, and adjustments. I was told that my

one leg was 1/4 inch longer than the other, and this could, over time, lead

to the spasms.

On to college to play basketball. In practice one day, I landed and felt the

familiar pain. The spasms were back. But in college, I had team doctors to

take care of me. After several of their questions, I said " Listen, this has

happened before. My one leg is 1/4 inch longer than the other. I just need

to go a chiropractor and I'll be fine. " The looks on their faces were

priceless.

After giving me the, " Look you're a college athlete and we're REAL doctors

sermon, " they starting their own tests. After almost 2 hours, here was their

conclusion. " You have one leg about 1/4 inch longer than the other. We are

going to give you a lift for your shoe. "

This seemed logical to me, but would do nothing to relieve me of my current

pain. They were against me going to the chiropractor. Thankfully my coach

walked in. He listened to both sides, set an appointment for me at the

chiropractor and the spasms were history.

[Here's something interesting - years ago, both chiropractors and PTs diagnosed

my left leg

as being problematic in various ways, but the isokinetic torque tests revealed

THAT

leg to be stronger. My isokinetic and isolated muscle tests showed major

strength

deficits in both lower extremities, but my full depth squats showed exactly the

opposite.

Later, I took that research further and presented the findings at various

conferences -

no sports medics, chiros or physios have yet managed to satisfactorily

understand this

paradox, which I measured in several lifters besides myself. Since then, my

faith in

simplistic testing and trite therapy has never been restored. Mel Siff ]

Since that time I have learned to be more aware of my back and the warning

signs. I have learned to stretch and " crack " my back on my own. I have also

found that the trigger points on the foot used in reflexology have helped me

also. (I roll a golfball around under my foot to hit the spots). This has

kept me out of the chiropractors office for the past 15 years.

Craig

Freeport, IL

[Guest guest]

Well said, Mel. Strengthen your core muscles, do multi-joint movements,

maintain maximum range of motion of all joints and the rest will take

care of itself.

Best,

Bill Black

-------Original Discussion -------------

" Rosemary Wedderburn " <CookieMagic@m...> wrote:

<<Like most people, my hips tend to get themselves out of alignment.

If the situation gets bad, I start to think the heel of my left shoe is

higher than the right. My neck starts to hurt, my back starts to hurt, my range

of motion is affected and my loads go down in the gym. A good chiropractor

can solve these problems within a few visits, although the best thing is that

once they are solved, to go in once a month for " maintenance. " It doesn't

take very long, doesn't cost very much and keeps the body in at least some

semblance of alignment.>>

Mel Siff wrote:

<The implication that chiropractors and some alternative

therapists frequently maintain that everyone becomes 'out of alignment'

or 'imbalanced' with reference to some unsubstantiated norm or ideal posture is

exactly what Burkhardt and others were alluding to.

It is your PERCEPTION that your hips are out of alignment and that

this feeling actually relates to some pathology. It is not a

scientifically proved or provable fact. Of course, some therapists will

presume to

accurately measure leg length or various postural differences in alignment

during static conditions of lying, standing or sitting, but there is no evidence

that these approximate measures relate to what happens under the complex

dynamic conditions which characterise sporting or daily actions.

You may well be experiencing spasm and the idiosyncratic or random

occurrence of spasm and miscellaneous muscle aches and pains. Nobody knows

how these unexpected events occur, but they can happen even during your sleep

or when you are otherwise physically inactive. If anything, in most cases,

they do not relate to any pathology, but probably more to the fact that

random, 'chaotic' or non-linear processes abound in biological systems and,

like any computer, the body experiences these periodic glitches which often

resolve themselves without any special intervention. It is highly

misleading for any therapist to categorically attribute these random, rather

normal

events in the body to pathology or misalignments relative to some mythical

norms.

This idea of very precise balance among various body parts and

systems, as well as the idea of quantitatively exact homeostatic conditions,

had unjustifiably become the cornerstone of far too much therapy. The

body is not a fixed entity or machine which reacts in exactly the same way

to all situations and stimuli. It is a system in dynamic process which

constantly 'hunts around' within a fuzzy range of possibilities to do what it

has to do in any given situation. Thus, what someone deems to be the body's

optimal state of balance at one instant may not be the same at another

instant. Research has shown this to be true in the case of how different

muscle actions may be involved in producing the same movement; it has also

shown that such operations also describe how the heart, respiratory and

neural systems function.

Rosemary, you will find that if you, patiently and in a sense of

personal exploration, expose your body to variety of different movement,

relaxation, massage, bathing, meditative, training or trigger point activities,

it will once again 'reset' itself, much like when you close a certain

computer program or restart the machine to stop the beast from freezing,

giving you all sorts of error messages or simply being perverse in some or

other way. Though I have visited various PTs, medics and chiropractors in the

past, I can honestly say that almost every musculoskeletal problem that I

have experienced has been personally resolved in this manner. ..........

....... Anyhow, I reason that my life is not threatened or my

musculoskeletal system is not in any real danger whenever I simply feel sore

or 'imbalanced', or my back aches dreadfully, so I use a cognitive approach to

help me

handle my own muscular problems (basically I tell my mind to ignore any non-

serious bodily nonsense!) and I am willing to wait fairly patiently to see if my

body, like my computer, will eventually solve its own misalignments without

calling in a costly technician. If the problem persists to the extent that my

life becomes a total misery, then that is the time to call in my

technician! Sure, in some cases the problem could be very serious, like

cancer

of the spine or other systemic diseases which my chiropractor or PT would

not be able to recognise in most cases, anyway.

If only all of those who overkill the idea of balance, symmetric

harmony, homeostatis and ideal alignment would realise that the body is not

a perfect machine and that they are not mechanics who are balancing your

crankshaft, con rods and pistons to very exact tolerances. The body actually

thrives and depends on its asymmetries, idiosyncrasies and contingencies, so

let us not model our therapies on the medieval notion of vitalistic balance

and mechanistic cogwheels in a clockwork universe. .......... >

Dr Mel C Siff

Denver CO

[Guest guest]

Mel Siff wrote:

<In my previous posts, I pointed out that there is no such thing as

'natural balance' which persists in exactly the same way over any extended

period. The body 'hunts around' to maintain an ephemeral, dynamic state of

approximate balance which shifts around to suit individual and situational

changes. >

Saturley:

* " Natural balance " is not saying the same thing as " perfect or ideal

balance " , of course, it changes from time to time.

Mel Siff:

<As plenty of research has shown, almost all non-traumatic musculo-skeletal

aches and pains will disappear within a fairly short space of time, even if

not treated. >

Saturley:

*Even a fall on the ice or picking up a small child while twisting to the

side (you know, done quickly to prevent death or bodily harm) can be

somewhat 'traumatic' (been there, done that).

Mel Siff:

<No therapist will ever manage to ensure that your body remains ...in that

fuzzy region of 'balance', unless you are willing to spend time and money

virtually every day (<quite the

exaggeration, hmm?) of your life visiting the appropriate therapist - you need

to learn how your own body operates and

develop a regime which helps it remain healthy and fully functional without any

need for outside intervention.>

Saturley:

*I agree, and strive to learn 'how my body operates and develop a regime

which helps it maintain healthy and fully functional', but (almost) EVERYONE

needs some help at one time or another.

Mel Siff:

<This is a lot easier than you think, even if you have what seem to you to

be intractable, incurable aches and pains. >

Saturley:

*I don't think anything is truly " incurable " and have solved all my health

problems through proper diet (weight loss), exercise and the occasional

visit to the Chiro, when needed (of course I don't credit the Chiro at all

for my progress, it's just a little relief on occasion ).

Mel Siff:

<My freely-used swimming pool....... I gladly teach some of these techniques to

anyone who attends our Strength camps, as part of the

restoration component of the course. What better way than to teach your own

body to manage itself most of the time? " >

Saturley:

*Ahh, a sales pitch, doesn't it all make sense now?

[Freely-used meant FREE, but you snipped out portions which showed this clearly

to be the case.

And no sales pitch, as anyone who has visited us for some sports restoration has

found

out over the years - we have never charged anyone for use of our " Spa " and we

have

had many dozens here and hundreds more in S Africa who also received tons of

free

assistance. Regarding attendance at our Camps, I do not charge anyone any extra

for learning free techniques of sports restoration - I just offer extra input

because those folk are already attending the Camp! I have even had numerous

pro athletes and youngsters who have used my gym or received my help for many

weeks for nothing. What we make from the Camps hardly covers the expense of

heating the pool, house and jacuzzi, by the way! Let's see how many others

teach so much for nothing! Just open up any of those Health magazines and see

what you would pay for simply attending a weekend at some or other spa, without

being taught how to help yourself. Maybe it doesn't make any good sense to offer

this for nothing - mmm, maybe I need to rethink my whole approach? Mel Siff]

Saturley:

*Also, it was metioned previously that many of these aches and pains go

away eventually, without outside intervention. I have found this to be

true, but I wonder why I should suffer for many weeks or months when a few

minutes and a MEASLY $30.00 can take care of it instantly. Doesn't seem too

expensive to me.

[Your problems cannot have been serious enough to have ever caused intractable

chronic pain and probably would have disappeared very rapidly, even with some

over the counter medication or gentle massage from a spouse. If all significant

problems disappeared after a few minutes of treatment, then many therapists

would

soon be out of business. Anyone who has used our facilities hasn't paid a

cent, which

is even cheaper than $30, plus they have often learned how to take care of

themselves

and their loved ones in the process! Mel Siff]

Saturley

Detroit, MI

----- Original Message -----

From: Mcsiff@...

" S " <allison_red@...> wrote:

<... Chiropractic care is very helpful especially if you have a fall. If

you experience PAIN in your back, neck, or hips an adjustment works wonders. As

far as 'sub-luxations being the CAUSE of disease, no chiropractor has EVER

told me this. I believe they are symptoms of illness, though. The MD's who

owe their souls to the AMA and make 'spiffs' off selling certain drugs to

people make the most false claims about other 'alternative' practitioners to

keep people unhealthy and in need of drugs. Also, there is no 'perfect

body', but each of us has our own natural balance that can be achieved. >

*** In my previous posts, I pointed out that there is no such thing as

'natural balance' which persists in exactly the same way over any extended

period. The body 'hunts around' to maintain an ephemeral, dynamic state of

approximate balance which shifts around to suit individual and situational

changes. As plenty of research has shown, almost all non-traumatic musculos

keletal aches and pains will disappear within a fairly short space of time,

even if not treated. No therapist will ever manage to ensure that your body

remains for any extended period in that fuzzy region of 'balance', unless

you are willing to spend time and money virtually every day of your life

visiting the appropriate therapist - you need to learn how your own body

operates and

develop a regime which helps it remain healthy and fully functional without

any need for outside intervention.

This is a lot easier than you think, even if you have what seem to you to be

intractable, incurable aches and pains. Part of the problem may be in the

way in which you move, exercise or rest, so the first step may even be to

video yourself in action and objectively analyse (possibly with assistance)

what you are doing. A competent personal trainer or coach should be able to

see how technically competent your training is.

My freely-used swimming pool, deep jacuzzi complex (plus snow!), massage

mats and microcurrent systems have resolved hundreds of musculoskeletal problems

for all types of athlete and other folk and saved them a fortune. Many

others have now learned their own systems of body management and almost

never visit any form of therapist any longer to sort out their miscellaneous

aches

and pains that used to cost them several hundred dollars a year to resolve.

In the case of my disabled wife and myself, our self-therapeutic approach

has saved us tens of thousands of dollars over the years. I gladly teach some

of these techniques to anyone who attends our Strength camps, as part of the

restoration component of the course. What better way than to teach your own

body to manage itself most of the time?

Bill Black:

<It has been my experience that NO human body is perfectly uniform,

proportioned, or in " alignment. " People are not built on a template and then

held in true. However, the human body is wonderfully adaptive and usually it

is better to attempt to strengthen, stretch and/or " bulletproof " as

necessary, rather than attempting to force the body into some sort of alignment

that

is another's vision for what is correct. >

Mel Siff:

*** Exactly! How does anyone know what the optimal alignment or comparative

standards are for anyone? As I mentioned above, research shows that the

body, in most cases of non-traumatic muscular 'dysfunction' , has its own

'inner wisdom' and gravitates towards that state if one moves, stretches and

relaxes in a wide variety of ways. If that resolution is not forthcoming

after a few weeks, then it is sensible to seek a variety of opinions from

several medical professionals. By all means periodically call on any

therapist whom you consider to be helpful, but try not to abrogate all

responsibility in the healing process and see how much you can achieve for

yourself or even in conjunction with your therapist.

Dr Mel C Siff

Denver, USA

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You will get very differing opinions from this list. Some people (like me)

have gotten alot of help from chiropractors and some people say to stay as

far away from them as you can. I think the best advice I have gotten when

choosing a chiropractor is to look for one that specializes in both

pediatrics and geriatrics and of course make sure they are very clear on any

spinal issues you have now or may have in the future. The best

chiropractors have an extensive amount of paper work for new patients to

fill out. Having new spinal X-rays taken or taking old ones with you to

your appointment is a wise thing to do too.

Good luck,

I hope they can help your neck, they sure have helped mine.

Danette Baker (Morquio with neck fusion)

Spokane, WA

scraps-of-joy@...

http://www.geocities.com/hotsprings/villa/9405

Snap In A Scrap Consultant # 10434

Pages in 2002: 6

Swaps in 2002: 9

My disability is not a handicap

***********************************

I'll be standing in the gap for you

Just remember someone, somewhere

Is praying for you

Calling out your name

Praying for your strength

I'll be standing in the gap for you

~ Babbie Mason ~

-- Chiropractors?

Has anyone used a chiropractor to get adjusted or to get muscles " de-tensed "

Any bad experiences or good ones ?

Please let me know. I have a tentative appt. tomorrow with a chiro..because

I have this knot in my neck that has not gone away in 4weeks and it flares

up when I'm stressed.

Sometimes I just need my neck popped.

[Guest guest]

writes:

<Has anyone used a chiropractor to get adjusted or to get muscles " de-tensed " .

Any bad experiences or good ones?>

I have gone to two chiropractors: one helped, the other didn't. Because of the

skeletal problems many of us have, I would advise you to do so only with your

doctor's recommendation. Sometimes, I think they can possibly do more harm than

good, depending on the underlying problem.

If it's just a pinced nerve or pulled muscle like people get, no matter what

their stature, then I'd think it would be all right. However, if it's the

result of stenosis, for example, it might cause permanent damage (no, I'm not a

doctor, just speaking on the side of caution).

If your insurance covers it, you might also inquire about physical therapy.

luthien

[Guest guest]

The other advice that has been given to me when it comes to chiros (I have

Morquio) is to find one that specializes in either pediatrics or geriatrics.

If they do a lot of those two ares they probably are more likely to know

how to be really gentle with fragile bones.

Good luck Robyn. I too have had a lot of help through chiropractors but you

need to really search to find the right one.

Danette Baker

Spokane Washington

-- Chiropractors?

I've been seeing chiropractors for about 10 years. I truly believe I

would not be as flexible or as mobile if I hadn't been.

I've got tons of problems with my structure (I have something else

beside the achon.) and I was quickly starting to loose my mobility.

First thing I said... NO SNAP CRACKLE POP! I do not let them snap my

neck. I do allow them to pull tug and use an activator on me.

I am very fortunate that the last two chiro's I've had have PT

experience, which is a great combo for me.

The chiro I saw for about 5 years (we turned out to be great friends

and his family and I still get together when they are in New England)

started me working on several different things to keep me moving. I

currently use thera balls, have used bands, and I have a pulley

system for my arms.

Now, I am not in the greatest shape and I DO HAVE issues. In fact I

am going in for knee replacement. But, their work has kept me from

ending up in a wheelchair.

The use of manipulation is what is used most. Pushing, tugging and

moving. I still am not snapped in any way.

I do have to tell you I first started seeing a chiro when I had a

thorasic nerve pinch in my neck. I was in pain for three weeks. I

mean intense pain. My hands were cold from nerve issues. I was sent

home with drugs and got no better (from the neuro guy). I went to

the chiro as a last ditch effort. I was so stupid! Within a week I

was feeling better, but because my nerve had been compressed for so

long I did loose some feeling in one of my fingers. Did I tell you

the FIRST day I felt a wee bit better! That was something I hadn't

expected.

One word of advice. Check and see how long the doctor spends with

you. If it is 10 or 15 minutes, see someone else. We need extra

time and it takes that long to evaluate me each time I go! I do hate

to tell you many chiro's are looking for the $$ and are not really

interested in healing you, but making you " just " okay enough to come

back. Trust me I know .... you know my buddy the chiro I am friendly

with, well he said this is a real problem with chiro's. Find one

that is about the patient not about the clock.

--

...~*^*~.,,.~*^*~.,YYY,.~*^*~.,,.~*^*~.,

Ginny )

chrisgins@... (

A cup of tea and good friends.... C[_]

[Guest guest]

As many of you may know I have SEDc. My hips are deformed and they

are still cartilage and have not turned to bone. Also with my hips I

have a curvature of the spine.

My orthopedic specialist has known me since the day I was born,

literally. He told me that my spine has not changed and that is a

good thing. He has my body X-Rayed every few years and keeps up to

date with my appointments every year or two.

I asked him about Chiropractors, and he advised me NOT to go to a

chiropractor. In case you haven't, I would strongly encourage you to

talk to your Primary Care Physician and Orthopedic specialist before

going to a Chiropractor. Also get referrals to someone who is

familiar with various types of dysplaisas. My doctor did encourage

me to go to a Massage Therapist, but I never followed through.

a

>

> The other advice that has been given to me when it comes to chiros

(I have

> Morquio) is to find one that specializes in either pediatrics or

geriatrics.

> If they do a lot of those two ares they probably are more likely

to know

> how to be really gentle with fragile bones.

> Good luck Robyn. I too have had a lot of help through

chiropractors but you

> need to really search to find the right one.

>

>

>

> Danette Baker

> Spokane Washington

> -- Chiropractors?

>

> I've been seeing chiropractors for about 10 years. I truly believe

I

> would not be as flexible or as mobile if I hadn't been.

>

> I've got tons of problems with my structure (I have something else

> beside the achon.) and I was quickly starting to loose my mobility.

>

> First thing I said... NO SNAP CRACKLE POP! I do not let them snap

my

> neck. I do allow them to pull tug and use an activator on me.

>

> I am very fortunate that the last two chiro's I've had have PT

> experience, which is a great combo for me.

>

> The chiro I saw for about 5 years (we turned out to be great

friends

> and his family and I still get together when they are in New

England)

> started me working on several different things to keep me moving.

I

> currently use thera balls, have used bands, and I have a pulley

> system for my arms.

>

> Now, I am not in the greatest shape and I DO HAVE issues. In fact

I

> am going in for knee replacement. But, their work has kept me from

> ending up in a wheelchair.

>

> The use of manipulation is what is used most. Pushing, tugging and

> moving. I still am not snapped in any way.

>

> I do have to tell you I first started seeing a chiro when I had a

> thorasic nerve pinch in my neck. I was in pain for three weeks. I

> mean intense pain. My hands were cold from nerve issues. I was

sent

> home with drugs and got no better (from the neuro guy). I went to

> the chiro as a last ditch effort. I was so stupid! Within a week I

> was feeling better, but because my nerve had been compressed for

so

> long I did loose some feeling in one of my fingers. Did I tell you

> the FIRST day I felt a wee bit better! That was something I hadn't

> expected.

>

> One word of advice. Check and see how long the doctor spends with

> you. If it is 10 or 15 minutes, see someone else. We need extra

> time and it takes that long to evaluate me each time I go! I do

hate

> to tell you many chiro's are looking for the $$ and are not really

> interested in healing you, but making you " just " okay enough to

come

> back. Trust me I know .... you know my buddy the chiro I am

friendly

> with, well he said this is a real problem with chiro's. Find one

> that is about the patient not about the clock.

> --

> ..~*^*~.,,.~*^*~.,YYY,.~*^*~.,,.~*^*~.,

>

> Ginny )

> chrisgins@... (

> A cup of tea and good friends.... C[_]

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

my daughter also has oral apraxia, low tone, dev delays (caught up now after

starting chiropractor), etc....we saw a HUGE jump in speech once we started a

cranio chiro, reg chiro and fish oil (cod liver oil actually).....she also has

swallowing problems too though so we are trying to do the biomed route for her

to help with that..... kim

From: elee1222@...

Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 00:24:30 +0000

Subject: [ ] chiropractors?

Just wondering if anyone has had any success with chiropractic adjustments. I

took the kids in for their first adjustments today and Madelyn was a chatterbox

for the rest of the afternoon. Honestly, I have never heard her vocalize so

much! She even did some fill in with the Brown Bear book. I would say, " I see a

red bird looking at....

and she said, " meeeeee " very clearly. She was sitting on my lap reading another

book and moving my finger to point to pictures. She then made attempts to repeat

everything I labeled. She also said goodnight (bye bye or " bu-bu) specifically

to her brother and then to her sister, which she doesn't usually do. I am amazed

at the progress I have seen in one afternoon!!!

I was waiting to start the fish oil until she had a developmental evaluation on

record, but I didn't think to wait for chiropractic.

What a difference!

mom to Madelyn (2) with oral apraxia, global delays and hypotonia, and her

typical brother and sister.

[Guest guest]

Wow! I've thought about a cranio chiro before, as my New Zealand friend

recommended it. I haven't looked into it in NY though. Maybe it wasn't a

coincidence today. I hope to see more progress, and we'll be starting the fish

oil soon. How old is your daughter?

From: Dojonovic

Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:00 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] chiropractors?

my daughter also has oral apraxia, low tone, dev delays (caught up now after

starting chiropractor), etc....we saw a HUGE jump in speech once we started a

cranio chiro, reg chiro and fish oil (cod liver oil actually).....she also has

swallowing problems too though so we are trying to do the biomed route for her

to help with that..... kim

From: elee1222@...

Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 00:24:30 +0000

Subject: [ ] chiropractors?

Just wondering if anyone has had any success with chiropractic adjustments. I

took the kids in for their first adjustments today and Madelyn was a chatterbox

for the rest of the afternoon. Honestly, I have never heard her vocalize so

much! She even did some fill in with the Brown Bear book. I would say, " I see a

red bird looking at....

and she said, " meeeeee " very clearly. She was sitting on my lap reading another

book and moving my finger to point to pictures. She then made attempts to repeat

everything I labeled. She also said goodnight (bye bye or " bu-bu) specifically

to her brother and then to her sister, which she doesn't usually do. I am amazed

at the progress I have seen in one afternoon!!!

I was waiting to start the fish oil until she had a developmental evaluation on

record, but I didn't think to wait for chiropractic.

What a difference!

mom to Madelyn (2) with oral apraxia, global delays and hypotonia, and her

typical brother and sister.

[Guest guest]

she will be 5 in nov....we started cranio when she was about 18-20 mths

old...... stopped for a while b/c she seemed to plateu (however you spell that

word).....started back over a year and a half ago and she goes at least 2-4

times a mth.....

From: elee1222@...

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 23:00:58 -0400

Subject: Re: [ ] chiropractors?

Wow! I've thought about a cranio chiro before, as my New Zealand friend

recommended it. I haven't looked into it in NY though. Maybe it wasn't a

coincidence today. I hope to see more progress, and we'll be starting the fish

oil soon. How old is your daughter?

From: Dojonovic

Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:00 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] chiropractors?

my daughter also has oral apraxia, low tone, dev delays (caught up now after

starting chiropractor), etc....we saw a HUGE jump in speech once we started a

cranio chiro, reg chiro and fish oil (cod liver oil actually).....she also has

swallowing problems too though so we are trying to do the biomed route for her

to help with that..... kim

From: elee1222@...

Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 00:24:30 +0000

Subject: [ ] chiropractors?

Just wondering if anyone has had any success with chiropractic adjustments. I

took the kids in for their first adjustments today and Madelyn was a chatterbox

for the rest of the afternoon. Honestly, I have never heard her vocalize so

much! She even did some fill in with the Brown Bear book. I would say, " I see a

red bird looking at....

and she said, " meeeeee " very clearly. She was sitting on my lap reading another

book and moving my finger to point to pictures. She then made attempts to repeat

everything I labeled. She also said goodnight (bye bye or " bu-bu) specifically

to her brother and then to her sister, which she doesn't usually do. I am amazed

at the progress I have seen in one afternoon!!!

I was waiting to start the fish oil until she had a developmental evaluation on

record, but I didn't think to wait for chiropractic.

What a difference!

mom to Madelyn (2) with oral apraxia, global delays and hypotonia, and her

typical brother and sister.

[Guest guest]

I would like to know if you kid will stay still for the chiro to do his work? I

ve been thinking about taking mine to chiro, but I know he will run away and

give a good fight when ever i take himn to any kind of doctor.

Also want to know if anyone have info of a good chiro that will have patience

and knowledge with autistic kid? I live in S. Cal, Los Angeles area

Thanks

________________________________

From: Dojonovic <kpdojonovic@...>

Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 6:00:14 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] chiropractors?

 

my daughter also has oral apraxia, low tone, dev delays (caught up now after

starting chiropractor), etc....we saw a HUGE jump in speech once we started a

cranio chiro, reg chiro and fish oil (cod liver oil actually).....she also has

swallowing problems too though so we are trying to do the biomed route for her

to help with that..... kim

From: elee1222@...

Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 00:24:30 +0000

Subject: [ ] chiropractors?

Just wondering if anyone has had any success with chiropractic adjustments. I

took the kids in for their first adjustments today and Madelyn was a chatterbox

for the rest of the afternoon. Honestly, I have never heard her vocalize so

much! She even did some fill in with the Brown Bear book. I would say, " I see a

red bird looking at....

and she said, " meeeeee " very clearly. She was sitting on my lap reading another

book and moving my finger to point to pictures. She then made attempts to repeat

everything I labeled. She also said goodnight (bye bye or " bu-bu) specifically

to her brother and then to her sister, which she doesn't usually do. I am amazed

at the progress I have seen in one afternoon!!!

I was waiting to start the fish oil until she had a developmental evaluation on

record, but I didn't think to wait for chiropractic.

What a difference!

mom to Madelyn (2) with oral apraxia, global delays and hypotonia, and her

typical brother and sister.

[Guest guest]

I can't help you with referrals, but my chiro just adjusts her while she is in

my arms. The older kids get on the table, but not the toddler. He uses an

activator, so it is gentler than the traditional method.

[Guest guest]

http://icpa4kids.com/index.php

Check out that link. I found a wonderful pediatric chiropractor in the

Cleveland area through this. I don't know if anyone is in your area. We never

had any kind of issue, it was very calming for her. We went when she was about

7.

Jo

Mom to Annie 14

>

> Just wondering if anyone has had any success with chiropractic adjustments. I

took the kids in for their first adjustments today and Madelyn was a chatterbox

for the rest of the afternoon. Honestly, I have never heard her vocalize so

much! She even did some fill in with the Brown Bear book. I would say, " I see a

red bird looking at....

> and she said, " meeeeee " very clearly. She was sitting on my lap reading

another book and moving my finger to point to pictures. She then made attempts

to repeat everything I labeled. She also said goodnight (bye bye or " bu-bu)

specifically to her brother and then to her sister, which she doesn't usually

do. I am amazed at the progress I have seen in one afternoon!!!

> I was waiting to start the fish oil until she had a developmental evaluation

on record, but I didn't think to wait for chiropractic.

> What a difference!

>

>

> mom to Madelyn (2) with oral apraxia, global delays and hypotonia, and her

typical brother and sister.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I was wondering if there is a difference between the cranio sacral and  cranio

chiro ? My son has the cranio treatment for almot 3 years now and I am

considering getting him the chiro treatment and wonder if they are similar.

________________________________

From: Lee <elee1222@...>

Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 8:00:58 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] chiropractors?

 

Wow! I've thought about a cranio chiro before, as my New Zealand friend

recommended it. I haven't looked into it in NY though. Maybe it wasn't a

coincidence today. I hope to see more progress, and we'll be starting the fish

oil soon. How old is your daughter?

[Guest guest]

My children and I both see a chiropractor. I don't remember him talking more,

but I do remember after the first or second visit when his neck was adjusted he

just seemed to be more active. (Not in a bad way, just not as quiet as before).

I know my aunt visited hers every time she had an earache - it can help drain

sinuses. I don't doubt that it affects your whole body when something's out of

place.

I'm not sure if my chiro is a cranial chiro or not - I'll have to ask him. He

does neck adjustments, but I'm not sure if that's what it means... I know he

usually uses KST as his method of adjusting.

>

> Just wondering if anyone has had any success with chiropractic adjustments. I

took the kids in for their first adjustments today and Madelyn was a chatterbox

for the rest of the afternoon. Honestly, I have never heard her vocalize so

much! She even did some fill in with the Brown Bear book. I would say, " I see a

red bird looking at....

> and she said, " meeeeee " very clearly. She was sitting on my lap reading

another book and moving my finger to point to pictures. She then made attempts

to repeat everything I labeled. She also said goodnight (bye bye or " bu-bu)

specifically to her brother and then to her sister, which she doesn't usually

do. I am amazed at the progress I have seen in one afternoon!!!

> I was waiting to start the fish oil until she had a developmental evaluation

on record, but I didn't think to wait for chiropractic.

> What a difference!

>

>

> mom to Madelyn (2) with oral apraxia, global delays and hypotonia, and her

typical brother and sister.

>

[Guest guest]

We see a cranio sacral therapist, and had a similar experience after the first

visit. We have been a few times since, and his spontaneuos/conversational

speech is significantly better. We also do the fish oils, so I highly recommend

combining the two.

From: cp_mistyrose@...

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 18:38:16 +0000

Subject: [ ] Re: chiropractors?

My children and I both see a chiropractor. I don't remember him talking more,

but I do remember after the first or second visit when his neck was adjusted he

just seemed to be more active. (Not in a bad way, just not as quiet as before).

I know my aunt visited hers every time she had an earache - it can help drain

sinuses. I don't doubt that it affects your whole body when something's out of

place.

I'm not sure if my chiro is a cranial chiro or not - I'll have to ask him. He

does neck adjustments, but I'm not sure if that's what it means... I know he

usually uses KST as his method of adjusting.

>

> Just wondering if anyone has had any success with chiropractic adjustments. I

took the kids in for their first adjustments today and Madelyn was a chatterbox

for the rest of the afternoon. Honestly, I have never heard her vocalize so

much! She even did some fill in with the Brown Bear book. I would say, " I see a

red bird looking at....

> and she said, " meeeeee " very clearly. She was sitting on my lap reading

another book and moving my finger to point to pictures. She then made attempts

to repeat everything I labeled. She also said goodnight (bye bye or " bu-bu)

specifically to her brother and then to her sister, which she doesn't usually

do. I am amazed at the progress I have seen in one afternoon!!!

> I was waiting to start the fish oil until she had a developmental evaluation

on record, but I didn't think to wait for chiropractic.

> What a difference!

>

>

> mom to Madelyn (2) with oral apraxia, global delays and hypotonia, and her

typical brother and sister.

>

[Guest guest]

I've read many of these messages and have stayed out of the conversation for a

few reasons. One is I feel I have my own issues with the whole neck cracking

thing being done to me or my children. I know it's an adjustment, and I should

know because two of my boy's friends, one is a best friend -their parents are

traditional chiropractors. I did go years ago to one and perhaps he wasn't good

but I remember my entire back and neck hurt for a time after, it was hard to

even turn my neck. Think I was in my twenties at the time.

I mean I go on rides that will whip me around like a rag doll with no issues but

one trip to a chiropractor years ago did me in big time. On the other hand-

love yoga which I believes naturally helps to adjust the spine. But on the

other end of chiropractor- and something that is not always done by a

chiropractor-could be done by anyone from a massage therapist to a medical

doctor is cranial sacral therapy. I have below my feelings on that straight

from the archives here because while we never went the chiropractor route ever-

and I still would not for either boy (but again that's due to my bad experience

and I know I shouldn't judge others from that...and again know quite a few, at

least 6, chiropractors as friends) I consider cranial sacral therapy something

that is worth exploring for all.

What I do want to point out however is that I find it comical that we are going

into these conversations and not one person has brought up out of pocket costs.

While I got much covered by insurance both my boys required so much traditional

therapy even then there were out of pocket expenses -and I do not recall their

alternative therapies back then being covered at all. Fortunately my husband

made good money so I didn't have to worry about driving for a half hour and

spending close to one hundred fifty bucks a pop on both of my boys going for

cranial sacral therapy at a discount. (one would be one hundred an hour- so I

got the second child for fifty less) In the end we saw better speech, smoother

to be exact for Tanner- but like ride therapy the surge only lasted a few days

tops. Thing is my husband and I were willing and thrilled to be able to do

ANYTHING that helped our boys even in subtle ways -and the fact that both boys

loved cranial sacral therapy- a huge plus. While I have no desire to go to a

chiropractor myself -I would consider a cranial sacral therapy session -but to

be honest if and when given the choice would just prefer a regular old massage!

But cost wise? If money is an issue for sure it wouldn't be in my top three

list of alternatives which would include fish oil and NV for sure!

Anyway below I have some archives on cranial sacral therapy- I do believe it's

worth exploring. I'm not saying that chiropractors are not- but it's odd they

haven't even really come up here much in the group until just the other week.

But again going back to cost, not only are fish oils and NV way cheaper but -NO

comparison surge wise. And NV " therapy " costs anywhere from 40 dollars (for 3

and under) 80 dollars (from 4 to 8) to any age over 8 years old 160 dollars a

month...compare that to one hundred dollars a session one to multiple times a

week- hundreds to thousands of dollars a MONTH to other other traditional or

alternative therapies we all try!!! And yet with NV it's the first that I have

heard from so many how " expensive " it is, well I guess a few of us have said

dolphin therapy is expensive -but 40 to 160 a month with the type of surges we

are seeing? With a money back guarantee? From well educated parents too? For

these type of dramatic surges in just about all that have tried it

http://pursuitofresearch.org/testimonials.html in all these areas

http://pursuitofresearch.org/pursuit.html all at once just about?!! Just not

logical.

From 2002

Re: ? on the communication area of brain?

Hi again ,

Please do let us know! Another alternative method that I've been

hearing lots of great things about is the cranial sacral therapy

(done by a Physical Therapist) and the cranial osteopathy therapy

(done by an MD) Woods, who is an RN and a mom to a child with

apraxia and mild CP who is doing amazing on ProEFA just told me about

the cranial osteopathy therapy results for her son just like the EFAs

was almost immediate. There was another " surge " as they say. There

of course isn't the same amount of parents trying this as the EFAs.

I was told by everyone that takes their child for this type of

therapy to make sure you find someone who specializes in working with

children - stressed the cranial osteopathy over the cranial

sacral because it's done by an MD -but I really don't know enough

about it yet to know if that is accurate in all cases-maybe someone

else in our group does? However after all I've heard now from

various people in different areas of the world how great it is I

probably will take Tanner.

=====