Fish Oil - how much to give & Carn-aware

[Guest guest]

Hello

 

How much fish oil can you give to a 5 year old - 32 lb child ? We have the

Nordic Omega 3-6-9.  Is 5ml once a day good enough ?

 

Also, do anyone of you have experience with Carn-aware ? I'd love to hear your

feedback - good or bad. Did it help your child with speech ? Any side effects I

should look out for ?

 

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!!

[Guest guest]

My son takes a similar product. He is 35 lb (3 years old). I give him 1/2 tsp

1x a day. 5 mL would be similar to 1 tsp. I have the same question as you too

because most in the chat room use the chewable fish oil tablets but my son will

only take things in liquid form (which i believe the 3-6-9 is).

>

>

> Hello

>  

> How much fish oil can you give to a 5 year old - 32 lb child ? We have the

Nordic Omega 3-6-9.  Is 5ml once a day good enough ?

>  

> Also, do anyone of you have experience with Carn-aware ? I'd love to hear your

feedback - good or bad. Did it help your child with speech ? Any side effects I

should look out for ?

>  

> Any feedback is greatly appreciated!!

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Can anybody provide me with a web page link to the chewable fish oil tablets?

Thanks

[Guest guest]

This site is the one that supports the CHERAB group: http://speech411.com/

[Guest guest]

My soon-to-be 5 year old taked 1 tsp of the 3-6-9. We slowly dosed up from 1/4

tsp to the full 1 tsp. Remember not to exceed 3,000mg of fish oil a day without

doctor approval, as amounts over that can cause bleeding issues.

From: wandre_k@...

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 18:36:42 +0000

Subject: [ ] Re: Fish Oil - how much to give & Carn-aware

My son takes a similar product. He is 35 lb (3 years old). I give him 1/2 tsp 1x

a day. 5 mL would be similar to 1 tsp. I have the same question as you too

because most in the chat room use the chewable fish oil tablets but my son will

only take things in liquid form (which i believe the 3-6-9 is).

>

>

> Hello

>

> How much fish oil can you give to a 5 year old - 32 lb child ? We have the

Nordic Omega 3-6-9. Is 5ml once a day good enough ?

>

> Also, do anyone of you have experience with Carn-aware ? I'd love to hear your

feedback - good or bad. Did it help your child with speech ? Any side effects I

should look out for ?

>

> Any feedback is greatly appreciated!!

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

don't give it too much at one time.... work your way up....we started with dr's

recommendation: 1/2 tsp 2 times a day.... she threw up!!! start SLOW with 1/4

tsp 1 time daily and work up to 1/2 tsp in am and 1/2 tsp in pm....dr put my

daughter (4 yrs old) on 1 tsp daily in all.....

From: michelle_yates@...

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 12:06:22 +0000

Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Fish Oil - how much to give & Carn-aware

My soon-to-be 5 year old taked 1 tsp of the 3-6-9. We slowly dosed up from 1/4

tsp to the full 1 tsp. Remember not to exceed 3,000mg of fish oil a day without

doctor approval, as amounts over that can cause bleeding issues.

From: wandre_k@...

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 18:36:42 +0000

Subject: [ ] Re: Fish Oil - how much to give & Carn-aware

My son takes a similar product. He is 35 lb (3 years old). I give him 1/2 tsp 1x

a day. 5 mL would be similar to 1 tsp. I have the same question as you too

because most in the chat room use the chewable fish oil tablets but my son will

only take things in liquid form (which i believe the 3-6-9 is).

>

>

> Hello

>

> How much fish oil can you give to a 5 year old - 32 lb child ? We have the

Nordic Omega 3-6-9. Is 5ml once a day good enough ?

>

> Also, do anyone of you have experience with Carn-aware ? I'd love to hear your

feedback - good or bad. Did it help your child with speech ? Any side effects I

should look out for ?

>

> Any feedback is greatly appreciated!!

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kat

I'll go into carosine/carnaware first...I found I needed to use carosine on an

on and off basis- I never understood why it was working but clearly my son was

only able to utilize just so much of it at a time. Here's some info on that

http://www.cherabfoundation.org/2006/dha-higher-epa-bit-of-gla-and-what-about-ca\

rnosine/

Out of all the things you can do for an apraxic/autistic etc. child...I HIGHLY

(if I can write that bigger and put lights on it I would) recommend NV or

nutriiveda for the reasons I write on this page

http://pursuitofresearch.org/science.html

Clearly unlike high levels of fish oils or on and off carnosine/carn aware as I

had to do with my son Tanner because it's clear to me his metabolic system

wasn't working up to par...I have 100% completely given my son a new life from

giving him nutriiveda. If I had to make a list of each surge -which I have

shared many here...it would be my longest message ever...probably another Late

Talker book!!! And those of you that know me know how long my messages can

be!!!

-as I just wrote to Nibby from our apraxia.org fb page regarding other things we

all do:

" yes keep doing it all -the brain responds to multiple stimuli...but have to

tell you that I have never seen anything work as quickly or dramatically across

the board for what seems like 100 percent that try it...nothing -except

nutriiveda. And the surges don't stop- just keep track and stay hopeful and know

that there are a group of us- a growing group of us that understand exactly what

you are going through right now -and it's exciting. What can be better than

knowing we are proving whole food nutrition of all the essential amino acids and

nutrients in a completely natural water soluble food source?!! Anyway -can't

wait till you can do a more proper update...even though this one makes it clear

in a really to the point way as well. "

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=115029735601 & topic=14811

But as far as fish oils...I think I can and can't answer your question. I can

answer about fish oils but not for sure tell you what dosage is best. But I can

tell you to start low and work up using the right formula. And that would be 2

ProEFA to 1 ProEPA...or if you use the liquid 1/2 teaspoon of ProEFA to 1

capsule of ProEPA

(ProEFA and ProEPA are the professional but more economical lines of Nordic

-slightly more expensive but easier to get in that you can walk into a store and

buy it would be Omega 369 or EPA...do price comparisons to what you get in the

store here http://www.speech411.com ) Also look at amount of capsules etc.

because for example you get 60 capsules of Omega 369 to 90 capsules of

ProEFA...so even if around the same cost -you are getting 30 extra capsules with

the professional line.

Did you read our " Fish oil 101 " message yet from our apraxia.org fb page? If

not here it is

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=115029735601 & topic=7401

The only " fish oil " I don't recommend to even try for a day (!! not kidding!!!!)

is Pharma Omega speak which contains what I consider to be dangerously mega

levels of the fat soluble vitamins E and K. Here's more from again our

apraxia.org fb page

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=115029735601 & topic=14922I

And here's much more on fish oils which on the other hand -try to find side

effects for outside of mild changes like temporary loose stools etc...I'll

wait...And while I'm waiting - you don't mention if you are using capsules or

the liquid form- but I recommend capsules unless you are doing high dosages for

a few reasons.

1. Longer shelf life as the capsules will stay fresh up to 4 years, where the

liquid once opened will only stay fresh for around 4 months.

2. You don't have to refrigerate the capsules but you HAVE to refrigerate the

liquid once opened. Fish oils are very unstable in oxygen and rancidity is the

number one problem of over the counter fish oils. You can buy a formula from

Nordic like ProEFA (the professional line) which is the same as the commercial

line Omega 369 where the peroxide level is very low (meaning low rancidity,

meaning low oxygen) and if that liquid is only good for a few months....2 months

down the road what is the peroxide level of the liquid vs the capsule?

3. The capsules are easier to travel with -you don't need to bring a cooler you

can just throw them in your pocket.

4. Clearly from the messages just posted the dosages are going to be more exact

with capsules.

OK why did I write number 4 about dosages? I am not sure if all are aware that

1/2 teaspoon is about the same as TWO capsules of ProEFA....so giving 1/2

teaspoon twice a day...or " working up to a full teaspoon " (who came up with that

being the dosage for ProEFA???) is the same as giving a child FOUR capsules of

ProEFA a day.

What I have found to be a better formula for fish oils is to add one capsule of

ProEPA (or the commercial line is called EPA -yes I know the marketing skills

are not the strength of this company!)

So that would mean even if you do use the liquid -you would use 1/2 teaspoon of

liquid ProEFA or Omega 369- same thing...to one capsule of ProEPA or EPA same

thing. ProEPA does not come in liquid form...which probably is a good thing

because for most apraxic children you want only a 2 to 1 ratio of ProEFA to

ProEPA...and when you get closer to a 1 to 1 you can even see a

regression...unless the child also has ADHD and for ADHD you want a 1 to 1

ratio...well instead of me going into that just let me know if you need ADHD and

apraxia info.

As far as bleeding issues -below is a bunch of archives....for those that

believe differently please post credible sources for information.

Well first of all this has nothing really to do with the question most newbies

ask. " My child weighs ____ pounds and is ____ years old. How much fish oil is

appropriate for him/her? "

There is no such thing as children's fish oil and there is no set dosage for

fish oil. I also know nothing about any specific dosage causing bleeding

because much of the bleeding concern is based in myth that like a story is

passed around...but rarely backed with credible information. In fact in

research the dosages are always WAY higher than what most of us use.

The amount of oils in one capsule of ProEFA is about equivalent to

what the FDA approved for infant formula. What dosage and formula of

fish oil are you using? Are you going megadosage? What brand?

In a nutshell if it was me - if I believed a normal amount of fish oil

was creating a bleeding issue in my child -I'd stop any oils

(including pizza and doughnut) and get my child to the doctor for a

bleeding time test. This is not normal.

archive: (I don't have the time to read all of this -but sure more is

in here to help answer your question)

Re: fish oil and surgery

Hi ,

I've never heard about time 'after' surgery to be off the fish oils -

but check with your child's surgeon.

And before surgery -to be or not to be on the oils,

that's still the question.

There's actually an unofficial look into surgery and mega high

dosages of fish oils. The largest group of people prescribed to be

on high dosages of fish oils daily by their MDs are those with heart

disease. Those with diagnosed heart disease also happen to be the

group who may have no chance to stop the fish oils prior to surgery

due to say emergency open heart surgery...and yet there are no cases

of hemorrhaging for those taking the high dosages of fish oils as

per Dr. Stoll (read Dr. Stoll's quote below) and Dr.

(quote below as well) In addition as you will read

below in one of the archives my own Mom went in for open heart

surgery and her heart surgeon told her she did not have to stop

taking her fish oils prior -and my Mom (reported by those in the

operating room) had very little bleeding during surgery, and for

sure she healed much faster than the norm. This is probably because

fish oil is not like man made blood thinners -it works with the body

as needed.

Here's a small quote from a much larger article from the Saturday

Evening Post. An interview with Dr. Stoll:

" Post: Is there a downside to supplementing with omega-3?

Dr. Stoll: There isn't. Some people may experience GI distress if

they take a large amount of a low-quality supplement. But the

highest good-quality fish oil is not rancid and has little or no

taste and has no side effects. Another issue that people worry about

is bleeding, because EPA inhibits platelet aggregation. But we

scoured the scientific literature, and there has never been a

documented case of bleeding due to omega-3 fatty acids.

We recently reviewed about 18,000 people who participated in

clinical trials with omega-3s, largely in cardiology studies, and we

couldn't find one instance of bleeding in any of the trials. There

was no bleeding, even if used in IVs prescribed before and during

cardiac surgery. I think this perception is a myth because omega-3s

don't inhibit the platelets as strongly as aspirin–perhaps 60 to 70

percent as much as aspirin–and unlike aspirin, the effect is

reversible.

Post: When a patient is on blood thinners, such as coumadin, should

they exercise caution when supplementing with omega-3?

Dr. Stoll: In that situation, I usually recommend a lower dose, not

exceeding one or two grams of EPA per day. At this dosage, there

should be no effect on the action of coumadin. The unanswered

question is, together are they providing too much anticoagulation?

Nonetheless, there may be some minute risk of a negative interaction

with anticoagulants, such as warfarin (coumadin), high-dose aspirin,

or ibuprofen-like medications, based on animal data and anecdotal

reports in humans.

However, large-scale controlled clinical trials with patients

receiving omega-3 fatty acid supplements with either aspirin or

warfarin observed no cases of bleeding even after one year of the

combined treatments. It would be a shame if cardiac patients or

their physicians avoided the use of omega-3 supplements out of fear.

I am thoroughly convinced that the dramatic and lifesaving cardiac

actions of omega-3s far outweigh the very small or nonexistent risk

of bleeding. "

SOURCE: Saturday Evening Post, May/June 2005, by .

http://www.satevepost.org/issues/2005/0506/7370750.shtml

Small quote from Dr. -more below in archives:

" There is a

long-standing myth that omega-3s cause bleeding. We have used data

from 18,000 or 20,000 patients who were in clinical trials over the

years-mostly in heart disease, and there is not one case of bleeding

from omega-3s "

http://www.equazen.com/newsfile_newsletter4_contents.htm

I had my tonsils taken out in kindergarten and had to be rushed to

emergancy because I started to hemorrhage. Even though I was only

five years old I will never forget those horrible moments in my life

having a tube forced down my throat while being down, that's how I

remember it. Thing is -I was not on fish oil then. Sure there are

horror stories about surgeries - but those stories like mine are the

exception -not the rule with or without fish oil in the picture.

So far in this group this topic has come up a number of times and no

problems with bleeding reported by those that stopped or didn't stop

the oils prior to surgery. (most do stop a week before as a just in

case) Below are some archives on this, best to you and your child

during this time, and speedy recovery to her!

Here's some archives on this topic:

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Mon Apr 29, 2002 11:20 pm

Subject: Re: QUESTION

Hi ,

Tanner never had surgery since on the EFAs in the past three years,

but about a year ago my mom was diagnosed with heart problems and

needed surgery so of course I had her go on high dosages of EFAs. My

mom informed her heart surgeon she was on the Omega 3's and he OK's

it. When she went through surgery they reported little blood loss

and that it went great (I take their word for it -wasn't there) Her

healing time was amazing and quick and she's back to teaching ball

room dance again (she's 72 -and Liz from Georgia knows -kind

of a stand up she's so funny) And yes she's still on the Omega 3/6

formula -but I'm not sure if she needs the 6 too like our kids do -or

just the 3?

Anyway -you may want to read up online about the differences between

a natural blood thinner like fish oil and a man made blood thinner

like aspirin in books like Dr. Stoll's book The Omega 3 Connection,

or read about natural blood thinners at sites like

http://www.cdc-cdh.edu/hospital/cardio/art7.html .

What I hear, just like Dr. Agin states below, is stopping the EFAs a

week before the surgery -and then continuing after. Of course there

is also the other side of the coin with surgery and fish oil-there

was an article published in the Sept. 1, 2001 issue of The Lancet

stating that a supplement combination of L-arginine, omega-3 fatty

acids, and brewer's yeast helped improve post-operative recovery from

heart surgery. The patients given the supplement combination had

stronger immune response and experienced fewer post-operative

infections than patients receiving placebo.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_1517000/1517318.stm

If you really don't want to stop the EFAs for a week -you can try

increasing the amount of fish sticks your child eats that week. And

if your child really misses the fishy taste of the fish oil you can

buy some Harry Potter Bertie Botts Every Flavor Beans at Toys R Us

and hope you get a sack with lots of sardine flavored beans in it.

(yuck I thought it was coconut!!...well they are both the white

ones!!)

And speaking of Toys R Us and the recent posts about reading

programs -I know there are fabulous educational sites and programs

out there for learning to read and write, etc. Don't underestimate

the power of a good toy inventor (OK -so I used to do that) or

creator ( that too) to market something that is good for your child

in a way that is fun. I really respect Henson -we miss you Jim, PBS,

Nick, and Noggin for doing a great job of that -and Disney too of

course. So while you are checking out stuff online at educational

sites -like CHERAB advisor Dr. a Tallal's Fast For Word program

at http://www.scientificlearning.com which is highly recommended from

what I hear and read -have fun and browse the toy stores like Zany

Brainy, FAO Schwarz, Learning Express, and Toys R Us, etc. for

educational books, games -including electronic games like LeapFrog

http://www.leapfrog.com (never ending learning -can't beat that) -

and software. Also find a great kids library section in your own

town -or another town over and take your child to the read alongs,

etc. they schedule. Some PlayStation and Nintendo games are

educational believe it or not. They have Sesame Street, Dragon

Tales, Disney, etc.

Even videos can teach. My kids love this cheap little home video

called Operation Dalmatian Fun With Letters with the Z Meany Evil

Wizard who teases Zim Zim and his dog Zoo when they are singing the

alphabet song by mock singing " A, B, C, D, wah -wah -wah " and he

does an awful thing (don't want to give the ending away... OK just a

bit -he blows a gust of wind and sends Zim Zim's dog Zoo to A land,

and Zoo has to go through the whole alphabet to get back to Zim Zim)

You know maybe when I'm done with this nonprofit stuff I'll go back

to animation -sometimes I miss it (can you tell?)

Below is Dr. Agin's post again just in case you didn't catch it.

=====

[Guest guest]

Is " nourishlife " speak fish oil from speech nutrients the same as the Pharma

Omega that is so highly not recommended? I ask because our

neurodevelopmentalist recommended it. My daughters have been on it for a month

now and we have seen many positive changes. I've learned so much from all of

you and I thank you for all your wonderful knowledge.

Re: QUESTION

Hi ,

Tanner never had surgery since on the EFAs in the past three years,

but about a year ago my mom was diagnosed with heart problems and

needed surgery so of course I had her go on high dosages of EFAs. My

mom informed her heart surgeon she was on the Omega 3's and he OK's

it. When she went through surgery they reported little blood loss

and that it went great (I take their word for it -wasn't there) Her

healing time was amazing and quick and she's back to teaching ball

room dance again (she's 72 -and Liz from Georgia knows -kind

of a stand up she's so funny) And yes she's still on the Omega 3/6

formula -but I'm not sure if she needs the 6 too like our kids do -or

just the 3?

Anyway -you may want to read up online about the differences between

a natural blood thinner like fish oil and a man made blood thinner

like aspirin in books like Dr. Stoll's book The Omega 3 Connection,

or read about natural blood thinners at sites like

http://www.cdc-cdh.edu/hospital/cardio/art7.html .

What I hear, just like Dr. Agin states below, is stopping the EFAs a

week before the surgery -and then continuing after. Of course there

is also the other side of the coin with surgery and fish oil-there

was an article published in the Sept. 1, 2001 issue of The Lancet

stating that a supplement combination of L-arginine, omega-3 fatty

acids, and brewer's yeast helped improve post-operative recovery from

heart surgery. The patients given the supplement combination had

stronger immune response and experienced fewer post-operative

infections than patients receiving placebo.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_1517000/1517318.stm

If you really don't want to stop the EFAs for a week -you can try

increasing the amount of fish sticks your child eats that week. And

if your child really misses the fishy taste of the fish oil you can

buy some Harry Potter Bertie Botts Every Flavor Beans at Toys R Us

and hope you get a sack with lots of sardine flavored beans in it.

(yuck I thought it was coconut!!...well they are both the white

ones!!)

And speaking of Toys R Us and the recent posts about reading

programs -I know there are fabulous educational sites and programs

out there for learning to read and write, etc. Don't underestimate

the power of a good toy inventor (OK -so I used to do that) or

creator ( that too) to market something that is good for your child

in a way that is fun. I really respect Henson -we miss you Jim, PBS,

Nick, and Noggin for doing a great job of that -and Disney too of

course. So while you are checking out stuff online at educational

sites -like CHERAB advisor Dr. a Tallal's Fast For Word program

at http://www.scientificlearning.com which is highly recommended from

what I hear and read -have fun and browse the toy stores like Zany

Brainy, FAO Schwarz, Learning Express, and Toys R Us, etc. for

educational books, games -including electronic games like LeapFrog

http://www.leapfrog.com (never ending learning -can't beat that) -

and software. Also find a great kids library section in your own

town -or another town over and take your child to the read alongs,

etc. they schedule. Some PlayStation and Nintendo games are

educational believe it or not. They have Sesame Street, Dragon

Tales, Disney, etc.

Even videos can teach. My kids love this cheap little home video

called Operation Dalmatian Fun With Letters with the Z Meany Evil

Wizard who teases Zim Zim and his dog Zoo when they are singing the

alphabet song by mock singing " A, B, C, D, wah -wah -wah " and he

does an awful thing (don't want to give the ending away... OK just a

bit -he blows a gust of wind and sends Zim Zim's dog Zoo to A land,

and Zoo has to go through the whole alphabet to get back to Zim Zim)

You know maybe when I'm done with this nonprofit stuff I'll go back

to animation -sometimes I miss it (can you tell?)

Below is Dr. Agin's post again just in case you didn't catch it.

=====

[Guest guest]

YES!!!!! Same thing. You are seeing surges in my opinion because that formula

contains 2 ProEFA to 1 ProEPA dosage wise that those behind this formula learned

from me and put in there. Did you just try ProEFA and ProEPA? If not if I were

you I'd carefully read the following...and while you are with your doctor please

share as well http://pursuitofresearch.org/NutriiVeda_Information.pdf and

http://pursuitofresearch.org/science.html

As the first group of parents that I know of that tried this product all came

from this group....may want to share this with your child's doctor of what

appears to be the overwhelming negative vs positive feedback. The negative

feedback in my opinion is enough to take this product off the market. And one

other thing. Ask your doctor about upper tolerable levels of vitamin E or

vitamin K or hypervitaminosis e

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Speech-Disorders-987/2008/11/New-patented-product-ava\

ilable.htm

Expert: Rossetter, M.S., CCC-SLP - 11/19/2008

Question

Hi, I have been doing some research and have come across a new product that is

now available for speech disorders. The company is offering a box complimentary

to anyone that has a child that could benefit from it. The product is called

speak and it is offered at www.speechnutrients.com. What is your opinion on this

product? THank you, Judy

Answer

Thank you for the question, Judy. (Sorry for the delay in answering your

question. I have been ill for the past few days.)

I'm so glad you asked about this product before giving it to your child.

I will begin by saying that I am obviously not a physician, and I do not have

first-hand experience with this product, but I do have a general knowledge of

nutrition, as well as research design.

Having read through the SpeechNutrients™ website, I have found some reasons I

would not personally use or recommend this product.

1.) While it is true that research has shown a benefit for taking Omega-3 fatty

acids, this company has mixed Omega-3 fatty acids with Vitamins E and K in VERY

large quantities. The ingredients (fish oil, vitamin K, vitamin E, etc.) in

speak™ are all generally known to be of benefit to humans, but there are no

studies to show that exceeding recommended daily values in such large quantities

is even safe—much less beneficial. Not to mention, there are no studies to show

that these ingredients in such large quantities don't have adverse interactions

with each other.

According to the product's chart, the recommended dose of 4 capsules per day (2

capsules twice per day) has children under 4 taking 10,000% of the recommended

daily allowance of vitamin E (according to their information, no allowance has

been set for children under 4). People aged 4 and over would be taking 3,330 %

of vitamin E and 5,750 % of vitamin K. Since they are vitamins, the doses are

not as regulated as medication, so 40 pound 4-year-olds are lumped in the same

category as 250 pound, 40-year-old men.

Daily allowances are set for a reason… It's never a good idea to take too much

of any vitamin. The research I have in front of me (1) says, " vitamin E has been

thought to raise blood pressure… large doses of vitamin E may have a mild

immune-suppressing effect. " " High intakes of vitamin E oil can cause nausea,

diarrhea, or flatulence in some people. " " Vitamin K is necessary for normal

blood clotting. " This product's web page states: " Physically, some children (and

some adults) may experience loose stools… " –but they don't say why. Obviously,

it is because this is a very large dose of vitamin E.

Nausea, diarrhea, etc. are the least of the side effects associated with this

product. It is very concerning that this is the list of side effects listed on

the website: " elevated heart beat, fever, possible seizures, headaches,

emotional outbursts and regressions in speech and behaviors. " The makers of this

product report they, " do not know if any of these incidents are or are not a

result of taking speak™. " This is because, as far as I can tell, the research

has not been conducted.

2.) The makers of speak™ report, " Our initial intention was to create this

formula for use in upcoming clinical trial research. However, during the process

of collaboration, formulation, and observation and understanding the importance

of timing, it became clear that the most responsible action we could take was to

make this formula available to the public. "

They intended to do research? They thought it was responsible to make this

product available before they conducted the necessary research? In the

scientific community, this is not the way to go about responsibly distributing a

product--- especially a product meant for children. Optimally, research is done

to ensure safety and effectiveness, then the product is released for the public.

It is important to mention: anyone can get a patent for anything that is

novel—this does not mean that studies have been conducted in any way.

And since this product is only considered a " supplement, " the FDA does not play

a part in regulating the safety or efficacy. The FDA website (2) says, " By law

(DSHEA), the manufacturer is responsible for ensuring that its dietary

supplement products are safe before they are marketed. Unlike drug products that

must be proven safe and effective for their intended use before marketing, there

are no provisions in the law for FDA to " approve " dietary supplements for safety

or effectiveness before they reach the consumer. "

Normally, products claiming this type of success should have scientific-based

evidence for findings. The makers of speak™ report that they are in the process

of conducting a " Virtual Focus Group " where parents keep a diary and report

every couple of weeks. This is not the optimum way of going about conducting

research.

In order for the company to make the claims they do, they would need a speech

and language professional, with an unbiased opinion, to test the child's speech

and language before, during, and after taking the product… otherwise, how can

they claim it increases and improves these things? Additionally, a study of this

nature –one where children ingest untested products—should involve regular

check-ups from a physician to closely monitor adverse physical side effects.

As far as I can tell from the information they provided on their website, the

makers of speak™ have provided no data in these regards for this particular

formula.

This opinion is based on the information given on the SpeechNutrients™ website,

documented nutrition research, and my knowledge of research design. As I

mentioned earlier, I do not have first-hand experience with this product. As

always, you should speak with your child's physician before beginning, ending,

or dismissing a supplementation regiment. If you have concerns about your

child's speech and language development, I recommend you seek an evaluation by a

Speech-Language Pathologist.

I hope this was of some help to you.

(1) Haas EM (1992) Staying Healthy with Nutrition: The Complete Guide to Diet

and Nutritional Medication. Celestial Arts, Berkley, California.

(2) U. S. Food and Drug Administration, Center for Food Safety and Applied

Nutrition, Overview of Dietary Supplements.

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/ds-oview.html#safe

Compiled by Lori Rosen from our archives here -check under " links " :

If you have given your child SPEAK supplements, please read this!

Dear group members,

I am outraged that despite phone calls to parents on this group list

whose children's suffered negative reactions to SPEAK, as well as

emails and a statement on the company's website about reports of

children experiencing reactions to SPEAK, Ms. Vannice continues to

take the stance that no negative reports have been received directly

by the company. In addition, Ms. Vannice and the company continue to

perpetuate the perception to the public that our children's unusual

reactions are unfounded rumors. As a result, I have compiled all of

the reports that have been posted on this group list. After your

feedback, I will send it to Nourishlife so that they have received an

official report of our experiences.

All of the compiled reports include positive, neutral and negative

observations. I will be sending each category as a separate posting

since it is too long to post in one email. Further below, I listed the

names of parents who posted so you can quickly see if I included your

information or not. Please review the next several postings from me

to make sure your names and statements have been included and are

accurate. I reviewed all of the postings going back to September

10th, but I may have missed a few postings due to the huge number of

entries on the group list. If this oversight did occur, please email

me directly and I will be sure to look up your posting and include it.

Parents and caregivers, if you have not posted anything yet, if you

have positive, neutral or negative experiences, or haven't posted a

current follow up on how your child is doing with SPEAK, please share

with us so we can be informed. The compilation was done in

chronological order and separated into Positives, Neutrals and

Negative comments. Some parents' postings will fall into two

categories since some started out in one category and later in another

category.

Lori

debjward@... Deb

cp_mistyrose@...

pdearmin@... penny

missy@... tommysmommy

kbolle@...

quilla8892@...

cheryldoolittle@... Cheryl

blm_ktm@... brandi

trmckenna1@... Tina

nms_555@...

seeramona@... lori

bug3235@... Yvette

mgal33@...

Kiddietalk@...

jvervier@... Jenn

nadineck@... Nadine

rcketchem@... Robin

lindaj14@...

taranowakowski@... Tara

kimlentz@...

shyautumnbear@... Joy

kris.justice@... Kris

smccann@...

Negative comments on SPEAK supplments

This is a compilation of comments posted on the group list. It is not

comprehensive, if you think your comment was overlooked, please

contact me directly and I will search for your posting and include it.

Some parents have several postings and they are included under one group.

Lori

NEGATIVE

my feedback on speak supplements

Posted by: " seeramona " lorirosen@... seeramona

Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:55 am (PDT)

Hi,

we have been selected to be in the clinical trial, my daughter

started the speak supplements a week ago today. Prior to that, a year

ago, I had given her pro efa jr. two capsules a day and saw no

improvements. I stopped and waited about 6 months and then started

giving her two capsules of ProEFA, with some nice surges, and was

getting ready to supplement with one capsule of Proepa when we got

selected for the trial so I started giving her the Speak capsules

instead.

My observations so far, which I've been keeping in a journal, is that

every single day, she has said one or several new words that she has

never said before. My husband and my daughter's SLP has been very

impressed and I continue to be amazed. I had thought she was a non

responder when in fact she needed a higher dosage than what I was

giving her.

I have only been giving her 2 capsules of speak since last Monday and

am not sure when to increase her to a second dosage in the day. My

question to those of you in the speak trials is that have you gotten

any guidance for this trial? All I got was an email and register on

the website. I am not sure if we are to record all observations of

our child, the amt we're giving and so forth...it doesn't sound like

a trial to me if we're selected just to give them the supplements,

don't you think?

Second, after reading this post below, I started to wonder about my

daughter because on day 3 and day 4, for the very first time ever, my

daughter had an " episode " of where she was sitting and her body kind

of convulsed very briefly a few minutues apart. I took her ot the dr.

on Friday who didn't think the speak supplements were the cause, but

scheduled an EEG just to be sure there wasn't any seizures going on.

Anyone else experience this?

Thanks

Lori

NEGATIVE

From: Christian Karriker <bug3235@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: my feedback on speak

supplements/seizures????

Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 6:50 PM

Hi,

We also have been asked ot join the focus group so we did. After much

frustration with guessing doses on the PROEFA/EPA I decided that this

would be a

great change for us.

Let me give you some background on us...Christian is a 28 month old

boy with

apraxia and spina bifida. His SB has not really been a problem. He

has hit

all his milestones on time EXCEPT for walking. We are working on

independent

walking right now!!

Well, we started it and on the fourth day he was acting strange. We

went to

therapy and I could hear him screaming loudly for no apparent reason. He

continued to scream alot while we were at home too. ODD behavior!!

He was

acting like an autistic boy. So, at the end of the day I had decided

to stop

the SPEAK supplement because it scared me. I was thinking that maybe

he had

too high of a dose of Vit E or something.

We woke up the next morning very early because Christian was acting

like he was

feeling sick. I could not put my finger on it but I KNOW my son and

something

wasn't right. I held him and hoped that he would sleep it off.. He

quickly started burning up and as I got the Ibuprofen on board, 10 minutes

later, he seized. Christian has never had seizures! It all passed and we

ended up going to the DR. She said the keep his fever down and watch

him. HE

is still feverish but there are no other symptoms. ???? I don't know

what is going on with him but I am praying that it is some strange

virus. His

fever is not as high as it was when he seized but it stays around

99-100. I

don't know what normal temp is for a kid? Is it the same as adults?

Well, I am letting his system rest from all the oils, and supplements

in hopes

that he can get rid of whatever is ailing him. I just thought I would

share

with you my weekend drama.

NEGATIVE

Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:42 pm

>

Re: Speak supplement ?

Hi ,

We didn't have any seizures or signs of seizures like the other 3

families that just posted but Tanner is 12 years old and 5 foot 6

inches tall.

Tanner started on Speak at 6 capsules plus I gave him 4 capsules of

the high gamma tocopheroal because I was so afraid of regression as

he did any time I attempted to raise the level of alpha E -so with

the 1.500 IUs of alpha tocopheroal and the 600 mg of gamma

tocopheroal plus the 800 extra of each he was on what I was not aware

a crazy too high dosage of vitamin E. For 5 days he was on that with

no regression -but no surge either. On the 6th day he woke up at 4

AM and was vomiting pretty much all morning with loose stools too. I

thought he had a bug and kept him home from school and didn't give

him any Speak or anything else. As the day went on he seemed better

and even started eating again and seemed fine. I gave him only 3

Speak that day.

The next morning I only again gave him 3 Speak and nothing else. He

went to school and seemed fine in the AM but the school called after

lunch -it was a hot day and Tanner was outside playing basketball and

he felt like he was " going to puke " so I went to school and picked

him up thinking once again it just had to do with the fact he had

been sick the day before. And perhaps that is all it was. On the

way home from his school I spoke to and she said only give

him the Speak and not the extra vitamin E anymore. Tanner's

regression started once I just put him onto the pure Speak. His

speech got what I call " bumpy " pretty rapidly which is our first sign

of regression for him and I realized the dosage or formula of vitamin

E was all wrong for him.

For the next week or so I put him on 4 Speak with 2 high gamma from

Vitamin World which slowed the regression down -but each day it was a

bit worse. I know -why did we continue? Tanner wanted to try it as

he was excited too about trying Speak. We were giving it time and I

thought we could figure it out. I went out and bought an almost pure

gamma but that seemed to make things even worse. Count another 3 or

4 days into trying different ratios of gamma with the formula. I

even brought it down to 2 Speak, 2 ProEFA, 1 ProEPA, 2 of the almost

pure gamma E...and one day with the high gamma...so much for making

things easier!

On the day we decided to stop (Tanner asked to stop) Tanner was

standing out in our driveway wanting to tell me something before he

left for school. He opened his mouth and started groping but nothing

was coming out. Even just writing this now it horrifies me that I

let it go on that long. He seemed apraxic again for the first time

in years. Later that day I had a school meeting and the teacher told

me that Tanner who is usually " talkative " in school with everyone

didn't say a word almost all day. He became very quiet as he is very

aware of his speech. The next day we went back to 4 ProEFA and 2

ProEPA no vitamin E at all. but it took days till he was anywhere

near where he was before and he's not 100 percent back in speech yet

but I am not sure how long the vitamin E stays in the body.

On one of the next days we went on a class trip and I drove to the

Indian River (where I had to drag a net through God knows what and

found out later there are " spotted eels "

http://www.softscuba.com/pix/Altriethspottedeel.jpg in the Indian

River lagoon!!!) with Tanner and other boys and girls in his class

and while everyone was talking....I mean we found jelly fish and

shrimp and baby flounder and a blow fish and a pipe fish -stuff that

made me cringe for sure...Tanner was for the most part quiet. Not

saying much of anything. He laughed -just didn't talk. On the way

home 2 of the boys in my car asked Tanner why he was so quiet and he

just shrugged.

Clearly Speak is not the formula for Tanner. Based on what I read

about vitamin E (which I have to say I didn't explore until after

Tanner's regression unfortunately) I'm not comfortable keeping my son

on any type of mega dosage of vitamin E for extended periods of time

anyway. He tested normal in vitamin E and clearly regressed when put

on a high dosage. I searched under " hypervitaminosis E " and while

it's rare - it's a great concern to me. While some may not respect

the dosages set by some organizations -the dosage of vitamin E in

just 2 capsules of Speak is over the tolerable daily upper limit of

dosing for infants to 8 year old children according to the Food and

Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine and the dosage of

vitamin E in 4 to 6 capsules of Speak is over to 5 times over the

tolerable daily upper limit of dosing for infants to 18 year olds

according to the Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of

Medicine

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/vitamine.asp#h7

Of course there is nothing wring with vitamin E but you should

consider that for those of us that have used fish oil therapy we have

found that we use months or even years of daily-dose regimen. Again

from what I have read too much vitamin E can lead to hypervitaminosis

E which is toxic to our body with prolonged use and I read things

about myopathies, myalgia, necrosis -I'm sure they are all rare but

I'm sure giving children/preschool children high levels of vitamin E

isn't the norm either. Both vitamin E and vitamin K are forms of

vitamins we call fat-soluble vitamins (the rest are Vitamin A and D).

I've read that fat soluble vitamins are metabolized and hydrolyzed

and stored in the liver. I was told that the dosage of vitamin E in

Speak is not based upon the findings in this group but I was told

it's based upon science. For my own research on my own son it's a

thumb's down. Perhaps it will work for some of you but I'd run it

past your child's doctor.

I did not read anything about seizures being linked to high dosages

of vitamin E -just the other things. But for sure I'm not a vitamin

E expert. I'm just a Tanner expert.

=====

[Guest guest]

I am so sorry to keep needing clarification and I think I will just call

Nordic Natural directly, but maybe you can help.

Is the dosage of 2 ProEFA and 1 ProEFA similar to Omega 3 6 9 Jr., what

about the Fishies??? Also, some of the Pro lines say 5 years and over...a

parent is interested for her 2 year old?? It does get a bit confusing.

I wish I could just come up with a simple recommendation chart for the

parents in my speech practice.

I have been suggesting Omegas for 15 years but the info is always changing

(which is good) and I need to keep up with it.

I would be grateful if someone would just list out the easiest way to

introduce Omegas (NN) for a family getting started with their child with

suspected apraxia.

Thanks so much.

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:35 AM, kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote:

>

>

> Kat

>

> I'll go into carosine/carnaware first...I found I needed to use carosine on

> an on and off basis- I never understood why it was working but clearly my

> son was only able to utilize just so much of it at a time. Here's some info

> on that

>

http://www.cherabfoundation.org/2006/dha-higher-epa-bit-of-gla-and-what-about-ca\

rnosine/

>

> Out of all the things you can do for an apraxic/autistic etc. child...I

> HIGHLY (if I can write that bigger and put lights on it I would) recommend

> NV or nutriiveda for the reasons I write on this page

> http://pursuitofresearch.org/science.html

>

> Clearly unlike high levels of fish oils or on and off carnosine/carn aware

> as I had to do with my son Tanner because it's clear to me his metabolic

> system wasn't working up to par...I have 100% completely given my son a new

> life from giving him nutriiveda. If I had to make a list of each surge

> -which I have shared many here...it would be my longest message

> ever...probably another Late Talker book!!! And those of you that know me

> know how long my messages can be!!!

>

> -as I just wrote to Nibby from our apraxia.org fb page regarding other

> things we all do:

>

> " yes keep doing it all -the brain responds to multiple stimuli...but have

> to tell you that I have never seen anything work as quickly or dramatically

> across the board for what seems like 100 percent that try it...nothing

> -except nutriiveda. And the surges don't stop- just keep track and stay

> hopeful and know that there are a group of us- a growing group of us that

> understand exactly what you are going through right now -and it's exciting.

> What can be better than knowing we are proving whole food nutrition of all

> the essential amino acids and nutrients in a completely natural water

> soluble food source?!! Anyway -can't wait till you can do a more proper

> update...even though this one makes it clear in a really to the point way as

> well. "

>

> http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=115029735601 & topic=14811

>

> But as far as fish oils...I think I can and can't answer your question. I

> can answer about fish oils but not for sure tell you what dosage is best.

> But I can tell you to start low and work up using the right formula. And

> that would be 2 ProEFA to 1 ProEPA...or if you use the liquid 1/2 teaspoon

> of ProEFA to 1 capsule of ProEPA

> (ProEFA and ProEPA are the professional but more economical lines of Nordic

> -slightly more expensive but easier to get in that you can walk into a store

> and buy it would be Omega 369 or EPA...do price comparisons to what you get

> in the store here http://www.speech411.com ) Also look at amount of

> capsules etc. because for example you get 60 capsules of Omega 369 to 90

> capsules of ProEFA...so even if around the same cost -you are getting 30

> extra capsules with the professional line.

>

> Did you read our " Fish oil 101 " message yet from our apraxia.org fb page?

> If not here it is

> http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=115029735601 & topic=7401

>

> The only " fish oil " I don't recommend to even try for a day (!! not

> kidding!!!!) is Pharma Omega speak which contains what I consider to be

> dangerously mega levels of the fat soluble vitamins E and K. Here's more

> from again our apraxia.org fb page

> http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=115029735601 & topic=14922I

>

> And here's much more on fish oils which on the other hand -try to find side

> effects for outside of mild changes like temporary loose stools etc...I'll

> wait...And while I'm waiting - you don't mention if you are using capsules

> or the liquid form- but I recommend capsules unless you are doing high

> dosages for a few reasons.

>

> 1. Longer shelf life as the capsules will stay fresh up to 4 years, where

> the liquid once opened will only stay fresh for around 4 months.

> 2. You don't have to refrigerate the capsules but you HAVE to refrigerate

> the liquid once opened. Fish oils are very unstable in oxygen and rancidity

> is the number one problem of over the counter fish oils. You can buy a

> formula from Nordic like ProEFA (the professional line) which is the same as

> the commercial line Omega 369 where the peroxide level is very low (meaning

> low rancidity, meaning low oxygen) and if that liquid is only good for a few

> months....2 months down the road what is the peroxide level of the liquid vs

> the capsule?

> 3. The capsules are easier to travel with -you don't need to bring a cooler

> you can just throw them in your pocket.

> 4. Clearly from the messages just posted the dosages are going to be more

> exact with capsules.

>

> OK why did I write number 4 about dosages? I am not sure if all are aware

> that 1/2 teaspoon is about the same as TWO capsules of ProEFA....so giving

> 1/2 teaspoon twice a day...or " working up to a full teaspoon " (who came up

> with that being the dosage for ProEFA???) is the same as giving a child FOUR

> capsules of ProEFA a day.

>

> What I have found to be a better formula for fish oils is to add one

> capsule of ProEPA (or the commercial line is called EPA -yes I know the

> marketing skills are not the strength of this company!)

>

> So that would mean even if you do use the liquid -you would use 1/2

> teaspoon of liquid ProEFA or Omega 369- same thing...to one capsule of

> ProEPA or EPA same thing. ProEPA does not come in liquid form...which

> probably is a good thing because for most apraxic children you want only a 2

> to 1 ratio of ProEFA to ProEPA...and when you get closer to a 1 to 1 you can

> even see a regression...unless the child also has ADHD and for ADHD you want

> a 1 to 1 ratio...well instead of me going into that just let me know if you

> need ADHD and apraxia info.

>

> As far as bleeding issues -below is a bunch of archives....for those that

> believe differently please post credible sources for information.

>

> Well first of all this has nothing really to do with the question most

> newbies ask. " My child weighs ____ pounds and is ____ years old. How much

> fish oil is appropriate for him/her? "

>

> There is no such thing as children's fish oil and there is no set dosage

> for fish oil. I also know nothing about any specific dosage causing bleeding

> because much of the bleeding concern is based in myth that like a story is

> passed around...but rarely backed with credible information. In fact in

> research the dosages are always WAY higher than what most of us use.

>

> The amount of oils in one capsule of ProEFA is about equivalent to

> what the FDA approved for infant formula. What dosage and formula of

> fish oil are you using? Are you going megadosage? What brand?

>

> In a nutshell if it was me - if I believed a normal amount of fish oil

> was creating a bleeding issue in my child -I'd stop any oils

> (including pizza and doughnut) and get my child to the doctor for a

> bleeding time test. This is not normal.

>

> archive: (I don't have the time to read all of this -but sure more is

> in here to help answer your question)

>

> Re: fish oil and surgery

>

> Hi ,

>

> I've never heard about time 'after' surgery to be off the fish oils -

> but check with your child's surgeon.

>

> And before surgery -to be or not to be on the oils,

> that's still the question.

>

> There's actually an unofficial look into surgery and mega high

> dosages of fish oils. The largest group of people prescribed to be

> on high dosages of fish oils daily by their MDs are those with heart

> disease. Those with diagnosed heart disease also happen to be the

> group who may have no chance to stop the fish oils prior to surgery

> due to say emergency open heart surgery...and yet there are no cases

> of hemorrhaging for those taking the high dosages of fish oils as

> per Dr. Stoll (read Dr. Stoll's quote below) and Dr.

> (quote below as well) In addition as you will read

> below in one of the archives my own Mom went in for open heart

> surgery and her heart surgeon told her she did not have to stop

> taking her fish oils prior -and my Mom (reported by those in the

> operating room) had very little bleeding during surgery, and for

> sure she healed much faster than the norm. This is probably because

> fish oil is not like man made blood thinners -it works with the body

> as needed.

>

> Here's a small quote from a much larger article from the Saturday

> Evening Post. An interview with Dr. Stoll:

>

> " Post: Is there a downside to supplementing with omega-3?

>

> Dr. Stoll: There isn't. Some people may experience GI distress if

> they take a large amount of a low-quality supplement. But the

> highest good-quality fish oil is not rancid and has little or no

> taste and has no side effects. Another issue that people worry about

> is bleeding, because EPA inhibits platelet aggregation. But we

> scoured the scientific literature, and there has never been a

> documented case of bleeding due to omega-3 fatty acids.

>

> We recently reviewed about 18,000 people who participated in

> clinical trials with omega-3s, largely in cardiology studies, and we

> couldn't find one instance of bleeding in any of the trials. There

> was no bleeding, even if used in IVs prescribed before and during

> cardiac surgery. I think this perception is a myth because omega-3s

> don't inhibit the platelets as strongly as aspirin–perhaps 60 to 70

> percent as much as aspirin–and unlike aspirin, the effect is

> reversible.

>

> Post: When a patient is on blood thinners, such as coumadin, should

> they exercise caution when supplementing with omega-3?

>

> Dr. Stoll: In that situation, I usually recommend a lower dose, not

> exceeding one or two grams of EPA per day. At this dosage, there

> should be no effect on the action of coumadin. The unanswered

> question is, together are they providing too much anticoagulation?

>

> Nonetheless, there may be some minute risk of a negative interaction

> with anticoagulants, such as warfarin (coumadin), high-dose aspirin,

> or ibuprofen-like medications, based on animal data and anecdotal

> reports in humans.

>

> However, large-scale controlled clinical trials with patients

> receiving omega-3 fatty acid supplements with either aspirin or

> warfarin observed no cases of bleeding even after one year of the

> combined treatments. It would be a shame if cardiac patients or

> their physicians avoided the use of omega-3 supplements out of fear.

> I am thoroughly convinced that the dramatic and lifesaving cardiac

> actions of omega-3s far outweigh the very small or nonexistent risk

> of bleeding. "

> SOURCE: Saturday Evening Post, May/June 2005, by .

> http://www.satevepost.org/issues/2005/0506/7370750.shtml

>

> Small quote from Dr. -more below in archives:

>

> " There is a

> long-standing myth that omega-3s cause bleeding. We have used data

> from 18,000 or 20,000 patients who were in clinical trials over the

> years-mostly in heart disease, and there is not one case of bleeding

> from omega-3s "

> http://www.equazen.com/newsfile_newsletter4_contents.htm

>

> I had my tonsils taken out in kindergarten and had to be rushed to

> emergancy because I started to hemorrhage. Even though I was only

> five years old I will never forget those horrible moments in my life

> having a tube forced down my throat while being down, that's how I

> remember it. Thing is -I was not on fish oil then. Sure there are

> horror stories about surgeries - but those stories like mine are the

> exception -not the rule with or without fish oil in the picture.

>

> So far in this group this topic has come up a number of times and no

> problems with bleeding reported by those that stopped or didn't stop

> the oils prior to surgery. (most do stop a week before as a just in

> case) Below are some archives on this, best to you and your child

> during this time, and speedy recovery to her!

>

> Here's some archives on this topic:

>

> From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@... <kiddietalk%40>>

> Date: Mon Apr 29, 2002 11:20 pm

> Subject: Re: QUESTION

>

> Hi ,

>

> Tanner never had surgery since on the EFAs in the past three years,

> but about a year ago my mom was diagnosed with heart problems and

> needed surgery so of course I had her go on high dosages of EFAs. My

> mom informed her heart surgeon she was on the Omega 3's and he OK's

> it. When she went through surgery they reported little blood loss

> and that it went great (I take their word for it -wasn't there) Her

> healing time was amazing and quick and she's back to teaching ball

> room dance again (she's 72 -and Liz from Georgia knows -kind

> of a stand up she's so funny) And yes she's still on the Omega 3/6

> formula -but I'm not sure if she needs the 6 too like our kids do -or

> just the 3?

>

> Anyway -you may want to read up online about the differences between

> a natural blood thinner like fish oil and a man made blood thinner

> like aspirin in books like Dr. Stoll's book The Omega 3 Connection,

> or read about natural blood thinners at sites like

> http://www.cdc-cdh.edu/hospital/cardio/art7.html .

>

> What I hear, just like Dr. Agin states below, is stopping the EFAs a

> week before the surgery -and then continuing after. Of course there

> is also the other side of the coin with surgery and fish oil-there

> was an article published in the Sept. 1, 2001 issue of The Lancet

> stating that a supplement combination of L-arginine, omega-3 fatty

> acids, and brewer's yeast helped improve post-operative recovery from

> heart surgery. The patients given the supplement combination had

> stronger immune response and experienced fewer post-operative

> infections than patients receiving placebo.

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_1517000/1517318.stm

>

> If you really don't want to stop the EFAs for a week -you can try

> increasing the amount of fish sticks your child eats that week. And

> if your child really misses the fishy taste of the fish oil you can

> buy some Harry Potter Bertie Botts Every Flavor Beans at Toys R Us

> and hope you get a sack with lots of sardine flavored beans in it.

> (yuck I thought it was coconut!!...well they are both the white

> ones!!)

>

> And speaking of Toys R Us and the recent posts about reading

> programs -I know there are fabulous educational sites and programs

> out there for learning to read and write, etc. Don't underestimate

> the power of a good toy inventor (OK -so I used to do that) or

> creator ( that too) to market something that is good for your child

> in a way that is fun. I really respect Henson -we miss you Jim, PBS,

> Nick, and Noggin for doing a great job of that -and Disney too of

> course. So while you are checking out stuff online at educational

> sites -like CHERAB advisor Dr. a Tallal's Fast For Word program

> at http://www.scientificlearning.com which is highly recommended from

> what I hear and read -have fun and browse the toy stores like Zany

> Brainy, FAO Schwarz, Learning Express, and Toys R Us, etc. for

> educational books, games -including electronic games like LeapFrog

> http://www.leapfrog.com (never ending learning -can't beat that) -

> and software. Also find a great kids library section in your own

> town -or another town over and take your child to the read alongs,

> etc. they schedule. Some PlayStation and Nintendo games are

> educational believe it or not. They have Sesame Street, Dragon

> Tales, Disney, etc.

>

> Even videos can teach. My kids love this cheap little home video

> called Operation Dalmatian Fun With Letters with the Z Meany Evil

> Wizard who teases Zim Zim and his dog Zoo when they are singing the

> alphabet song by mock singing " A, B, C, D, wah -wah -wah " and he

> does an awful thing (don't want to give the ending away... OK just a

> bit -he blows a gust of wind and sends Zim Zim's dog Zoo to A land,

> and Zoo has to go through the whole alphabet to get back to Zim Zim)

>

> You know maybe when I'm done with this nonprofit stuff I'll go back

> to animation -sometimes I miss it (can you tell?)

>

> Below is Dr. Agin's post again just in case you didn't catch it.

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

the dosages on the bottle are what is approved by the FDA -and they can

only approve one or two capsules unless there is research with that exact

formula. Any formula involved in research for children like Efalex is much

higher dosages (ie: 2 to 3 capsules 2 to 3 times a day etc.)

No the Omega 369 is not the same thing as the formula I came up with that is 2

of the ProEFA to one ProEPA. You are using what is the same as just ProEFA as

ProEFA is the professional line and Omega 369 is the commercial line. ProEPA is

the professional line of a completely different formula with much higher EPA and

no GLA. EPA is a more expensive harder to process oil. The formula I came up

with would be 1 ProEPA (with a P) to TWO proEFA (with an F)

About the Jr. vs regular -you are paying twice as much -it's a marketing thing

and unless you are trying to teach your child how to swallow capsules or need an

exact half dosage for some reason I'd stick with the regular as a full ProEFA is

about the dosage approved by the FDA for infant formula...so for anyone using

the jr you are using a 1/2 dosage for your child of what's in a baby's dosage!

Below is more- if you are still confused let me know -these questions are pretty

easy for me to answer as I have for over ten years now!!!

Hi Darlene!

There is no such thing as " children's " fish oil- they are all the same. But yes

the Omega 369 Jr or ProEFA Jr is the exact same as the regular capsule in

formula -but about twice as expensive since for around the same cost you get the

same amount of capsules but they are an exact half dosage of the regular.

One regular capsule is about what the FDA approved for infant formula so by

using a Jr. capsule with a 3 year old you are providing just a 1/2 dosage of

what would be fine for a baby. The regular capsule is what we used in this

group for years -the Jr. version was probably the best marketing thing Nordic

ever did. I do like them because they are great for those with older children

who want to teach their child to swallow capsules -but other than that...cute

bottle but worth twice as much money? Not in my opinion. In addition most

parents will use 2 Jr. capsules and since they are a half dosage that means they

are using the equivalent of one regular capsule -but instead of just having to

try to squeeze the oil out of one capsule -now they have to squeeze the oil out

of 2 teeny capsules.

Again the Jr. bottle is way cuter- I'll give it that. But no it's not a

children's fish oil and not enough of a dosage in my opinion for the kids in

this group as it's only a half dosage of not only what is found in most infant

bottles that use EFA enriched formula -but what we used in our parental and

professional anecdotal feedback

http://www.cherabfoundation.org/2001/cherab-foundations-first-apraxia-conference

Here's more from our facebook apraxia.org page Fish Oils 101

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=115029735601 & topic=7401

=====

[Guest guest]

What is carn-aware? I hadn't heard about it before...??

Thanks!

> >

> >

> > Hello

> >

> > How much fish oil can you give to a 5 year old - 32 lb child ? We have the

Nordic Omega 3-6-9. Is 5ml once a day good enough ?

> >

> > Also, do anyone of you have experience with Carn-aware ? I'd love to hear

your feedback - good or bad. Did it help your child with speech ? Any side

effects I should look out for ?

> >

> > Any feedback is greatly appreciated!!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I'm confused.  The label on the Omega 3-6-9 Jr (liquid) says 1/2 teaspoon

single serving contains 338 mg EPA, 225 mg DHA and 83 mg GLA..  Isn't that very

similar to the serving size of two ProEFA capsules of 270 mg EPA, 180 mg DHA and

66 mg GLA?  I guess I am confused at how that can be considered a half of a

dose.  maybe I am looking at it wrong.  Please advise.  Thanks for all your

help.

From: kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: Fish Oil - how much to give & Carn-aware

Date: Friday, July 16, 2010, 5:12 PM

 

the dosages on the bottle are what is approved by the FDA -and

they can only approve one or two capsules unless there is research with that

exact formula. Any formula involved in research for children like Efalex is

much higher dosages (ie: 2 to 3 capsules 2 to 3 times a day etc.)

No the Omega 369 is not the same thing as the formula I came up with that is 2

of the ProEFA to one ProEPA. You are using what is the same as just ProEFA as

ProEFA is the professional line and Omega 369 is the commercial line. ProEPA is

the professional line of a completely different formula with much higher EPA and

no GLA. EPA is a more expensive harder to process oil. The formula I came up

with would be 1 ProEPA (with a P) to TWO proEFA (with an F)

About the Jr. vs regular -you are paying twice as much -it's a marketing thing

and unless you are trying to teach your child how to swallow capsules or need an

exact half dosage for some reason I'd stick with the regular as a full ProEFA is

about the dosage approved by the FDA for infant formula...so for anyone using

the jr you are using a 1/2 dosage for your child of what's in a baby's dosage!

Below is more- if you are still confused let me know -these questions are pretty

easy for me to answer as I have for over ten years now!!!

Hi Darlene!

There is no such thing as " children's " fish oil- they are all the same. But yes

the Omega 369 Jr or ProEFA Jr is the exact same as the regular capsule in

formula -but about twice as expensive since for around the same cost you get the

same amount of capsules but they are an exact half dosage of the regular.

One regular capsule is about what the FDA approved for infant formula so by

using a Jr. capsule with a 3 year old you are providing just a 1/2 dosage of

what would be fine for a baby. The regular capsule is what we used in this

group for years -the Jr. version was probably the best marketing thing Nordic

ever did. I do like them because they are great for those with older children

who want to teach their child to swallow capsules -but other than that...cute

bottle but worth twice as much money? Not in my opinion. In addition most

parents will use 2 Jr. capsules and since they are a half dosage that means they

are using the equivalent of one regular capsule -but instead of just having to

try to squeeze the oil out of one capsule -now they have to squeeze the oil out

of 2 teeny capsules.

Again the Jr. bottle is way cuter- I'll give it that. But no it's not a

children's fish oil and not enough of a dosage in my opinion for the kids in

this group as it's only a half dosage of not only what is found in most infant

bottles that use EFA enriched formula -but what we used in our parental and

professional anecdotal feedback

http://www.cherabfoundation.org/2001/cherab-foundations-first-apraxia-conference

Here's more from our facebook apraxia.org page Fish Oils 101

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=115029735601 & topic=7401

=====

[Guest guest]

Yes that's correct -a half teaspoon of ProEFA liquid (or it's commercial

equivalent Omega 369) is about the same as two full capsules of ProEFA (or it's

commercial equivalent Omega 369)

I was addressing the number of people that were using 1/2 teaspoon twice a day

or one full teaspoon of ProEFA a day instead of 1/2 teaspoon (or 2 capsules) of

the ProEFA to one capsule of ProEPA.

Again a full teaspoon is about the same as 4 capsules -and even though you'd

only be using 3 capsules with the 2 ProEFA to 1 ProEPA- I encourage you to try

it yourself to see the surges that the majority of us have seen.

So again -yes you were correct

Now clear?

=====

[Guest guest]

Yes, clear now.  Thanks again.  When do you start using the ProEPA with the

ProEFA?  Is it right away or do you see what changes occur with the ProEFA by

itself first?  

From: kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: Fish Oil - how much to give & Carn-aware

Date: Friday, July 16, 2010, 6:33 PM

 

Yes that's correct -a half teaspoon of ProEFA liquid (or it's commercial

equivalent Omega 369) is about the same as two full capsules of ProEFA (or it's

commercial equivalent Omega 369)

I was addressing the number of people that were using 1/2 teaspoon twice a day

or one full teaspoon of ProEFA a day instead of 1/2 teaspoon (or 2 capsules) of

the ProEFA to one capsule of ProEPA.

Again a full teaspoon is about the same as 4 capsules -and even though you'd

only be using 3 capsules with the 2 ProEFA to 1 ProEPA- I encourage you to try

it yourself to see the surges that the majority of us have seen.

So again -yes you were correct

Now clear?

=====