Re: Does play raise IQ and cure autism?

[Guest guest]

While I think there are kids who are misdiagnosed with autism, I think thatis

very rare. My son, who is dx'd with autism and has severe global apraxia, and

others like him, I think are put in the severe autsim group due to not speaking.

Many professionals, including the neuro the school sent us to, didn't take this

as two separate dx's and treated as if the apraxia was part of the autism. We

had to find out about Prompt and Beckman on our own and through groups like

this. I think kids like my son who would probably have had a PDD dx without

apraxia, are automatically assumed to have severe autism and the apraxia.

In my opinion, the play therapy is much, much more successful than ABA because

it is " play " . This is how we are supposed to learn when we are little. ABA is

the therapy of choice and this is what they get in school and then the parents

are told to carry it over at home. This is teaching learned response, not

interactive relationships. For some kids it does work well. For my son and

other kids I know, it does not. In fact it shut my son down in Early

intervention. He did okay at first in an ABA class at school but then didn't

want to go any more. We do Son-Rise at home and he loves it. He is having fun

and social and more verbal. We are always playing! In his ABA class, he is not

very verbal and they are so focused on " Do this " that they turn the kids off and

aren't taking into account the kids intelligence. Kids need to play and parents

need to play with their kids. When your child has a problem, it is play with a

purpose. We may make up games to work on a skill but it is done in a fun way

that makes them want to keep playing and learning. Floortime is another great

play therapy. My sons PT is trained in this and he is more verbal with her than

in his class. She is wonderful!

So in a way I think my son was misdiagnosed due to the apraxia. I think his

intelligence was assumed to be low and he was labeled severe autism when I don't

think that was the case. He did have sensory issues so I think he definitely

was on the spectrum. As we make progress with the apraxia--the autism behaviors

seem to go away. When he was " most autistic " was when he gave up trying to talk

and seemed to retreat from us. Was that from severe autism? No--I think that

was frustration and him feeling isolated. I am glad to see play therapy finally

getting some good press and studies backing it up. Yes, it is similar to how we

just play with our kids but with goals to reach for. We play for fun and then

we have certain games we play to work towards a new skill but always in a fun

way. All kids need to play just for the sake of playing too. I agree-- get on

the floor and play with those presents!!!! And if your child has apraxia and an

autism dx--make sure your therapists are trained in treating apraxia. We lost

out on a good year because I didn't have the right information. Professionals

not only make mistakes--they don't always have all the info that can help you.

Sorry if this rambled on---this is something I have thought about a lot lately

with my son.

~

>

> What an interesting article/study. The question that arises to me is was it

that the play therapy was far superior to the traditional autism therapy for

these " very young " children diagnosed as autistic...or was it just that the

therapy for autism is only appropriate for children that are truly autistic and

these diagnosed as autistic but possibly not autistic children responded to the

play interaction vs ABA? Interesting that they credit the change in diagnosis

only to the intensive play therapy...and not even mention possibility of

MISDIAGNOSIS (I mean is it me or is that just beyond silly that the thought that

perhaps autism is being overdiagnosed is not even mentioned? What?

Professionals can't make mistakes?! Um Yes they can!!!)

>

> To me when I read this article it teaches once again that inappropriate

therapy even in large amounts which most new parents take as a gift so will sign

whatever diagnosis including MR just to get services -is like a Monkey's Paw

gift.

>

> Another question...is the following therapy (the play one not the ABA one)

typical of how most of us would play with our kids or is that just me???!!! If

it's not typical of you then this article shows just how powerful getting on the

floor and playing with all those new presents with your kids is!

>

> Clips from article:

>

> The program, called the Early Start Denver Model, or E.S.D.M., was part of a

two-year study of 48 children as young as 18 months old. Half the children

received the intensive therapy, while the rest received a community-based autism

intervention, according to a report in the journal Pediatrics.

>

> While children in both groups improved, the gains were greater in the Early

Start program. At the conclusion of the study, the I.Q.'s of children who took

part in the E.S.D.M. program had improved by about 18 points, compared with a 4

point improvement in the other group. Children in the treatment group also

posted bigger gains in listening and comprehension skills. For seven of the

children in the treatment group, the improvements were pronounced enough to

warrant a change in diagnosis from autism to a milder condition, whereas only

one child in the community-based intervention group was given a less severe

diagnosis.

>

> Q.

>

> Can you explain how the new treatment is different from traditional methods

used to teach children with autism?

> A.

>

> Sure. A traditional way might be to say the word " ball. " The child is sitting

at the table, and the adult holds the ball and says: " Say ball. Say ball. " If

the child makes a sound that's kind of like ball, they hand them an M & M or juice

or a cracker. They do it again. " Say ball. " They want the child to say it a

little more clearly. If they do, the child receives a reinforcement. If not, the

ball goes away for a minute. If the child says something like " ba, " they get the

reward.

> Q.

>

> So how would you teach a child using this new method?

> A.

>

> In this interaction, there might be a little boy in a playroom with an adult.

There's a bucket of balls, and the adult is on the floor. The boy picks up a

ball, and the therapist picks up a ball. The therapist empties out the bucket.

Then she throws her ball into the bucket and says " ball. " He watches and throws.

She says " ball " again. She reaches in and picks up the ball and says, " Do you

want ball? " And she says, " ball, " and hands it to him. She picks up another ball

and throws it into the bucket.

>

> Each time he says something, she gives him the ball. The two are playing a

game of throwing balls in a bucket. They throw to each other. They might be

bouncing the balls. There is a lot of variation going on. The therapist is using

the child's interest to get him focused on saying the word. Having the ball is a

reward for making sounds. She's also working on throwing skills.

>

> All of this is going on while they are smiling and having a good time, rolling

it back and forth, practicing social play and turn taking. In this episode, you

see the child has lots of learning activities. It's the same thing the other

child is learning, but now he's doing it in a more meaningful way. He's

motivated to have it and say it. It's a rich learning situation that's a lot of

fun and motivated by a child's pleasure.

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> Full articles

>

> http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/iq-boost-for-toddlers-with-autism/

>

>

> http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/peds.2009-0958v1

>

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

My view is that Sonrise and pay therapy is good for severe autism, and ABA is

good for mild

Dont shoot me its just my opinion!

From: klbushey@...

Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 18:34:14 +0000

Subject: [ ] Re: Does play raise IQ and " cure " autism?

While I think there are kids who are misdiagnosed with autism, I think thatis

very rare. My son, who is dx'd with autism and has severe global apraxia, and

others like him, I think are put in the severe autsim group due to not speaking.

Many professionals, including the neuro the school sent us to, didn't take this

as two separate dx's and treated as if the apraxia was part of the autism. We

had to find out about Prompt and Beckman on our own and through groups like

this. I think kids like my son who would probably have had a PDD dx without

apraxia, are automatically assumed to have severe autism and the apraxia.

In my opinion, the play therapy is much, much more successful than ABA because

it is " play " . This is how we are supposed to learn when we are little. ABA is

the therapy of choice and this is what they get in school and then the parents

are told to carry it over at home. This is teaching learned response, not

interactive relationships. For some kids it does work well. For my son and other

kids I know, it does not. In fact it shut my son down in Early intervention. He

did okay at first in an ABA class at school but then didn't want to go any more.

We do Son-Rise at home and he loves it. He is having fun and social and more

verbal. We are always playing! In his ABA class, he is not very verbal and they

are so focused on " Do this " that they turn the kids off and aren't taking into

account the kids intelligence. Kids need to play and parents need to play with

their kids. When your child has a problem, it is play with a purpose. We may

make up games to work on a skill but it is done in a fun way that makes them

want to keep playing and learning. Floortime is another great play therapy. My

sons PT is trained in this and he is more verbal with her than in his class. She

is wonderful!

So in a way I think my son was misdiagnosed due to the apraxia. I think his

intelligence was assumed to be low and he was labeled severe autism when I don't

think that was the case. He did have sensory issues so I think he definitely was

on the spectrum. As we make progress with the apraxia--the autism behaviors seem

to go away. When he was " most autistic " was when he gave up trying to talk and

seemed to retreat from us. Was that from severe autism? No--I think that was

frustration and him feeling isolated. I am glad to see play therapy finally

getting some good press and studies backing it up. Yes, it is similar to how we

just play with our kids but with goals to reach for. We play for fun and then we

have certain games we play to work towards a new skill but always in a fun way.

All kids need to play just for the sake of playing too. I agree-- get on the

floor and play with those presents!!!! And if your child has apraxia and an

autism dx--make sure your therapists are trained in treating apraxia. We lost

out on a good year because I didn't have the right information. Professionals

not only make mistakes--they don't always have all the info that can help you.

Sorry if this rambled on---this is something I have thought about a lot lately

with my son.

~

>

> What an interesting article/study. The question that arises to me is was it

that the play therapy was far superior to the traditional autism therapy for

these " very young " children diagnosed as autistic...or was it just that the

therapy for autism is only appropriate for children that are truly autistic and

these diagnosed as autistic but possibly not autistic children responded to the

play interaction vs ABA? Interesting that they credit the change in diagnosis

only to the intensive play therapy...and not even mention possibility of

MISDIAGNOSIS (I mean is it me or is that just beyond silly that the thought that

perhaps autism is being overdiagnosed is not even mentioned? What? Professionals

can't make mistakes?! Um Yes they can!!!)

>

> To me when I read this article it teaches once again that inappropriate

therapy even in large amounts which most new parents take as a gift so will sign

whatever diagnosis including MR just to get services -is like a Monkey's Paw

gift.

>

> Another question...is the following therapy (the play one not the ABA one)

typical of how most of us would play with our kids or is that just me???!!! If

it's not typical of you then this article shows just how powerful getting on the

floor and playing with all those new presents with your kids is!

>

> Clips from article:

>

> The program, called the Early Start Denver Model, or E.S.D.M., was part of a

two-year study of 48 children as young as 18 months old. Half the children

received the intensive therapy, while the rest received a community-based autism

intervention, according to a report in the journal Pediatrics.

>

> While children in both groups improved, the gains were greater in the Early

Start program. At the conclusion of the study, the I.Q.'s of children who took

part in the E.S.D.M. program had improved by about 18 points, compared with a 4

point improvement in the other group. Children in the treatment group also

posted bigger gains in listening and comprehension skills. For seven of the

children in the treatment group, the improvements were pronounced enough to

warrant a change in diagnosis from autism to a milder condition, whereas only

one child in the community-based intervention group was given a less severe

diagnosis.

>

> Q.

>

> Can you explain how the new treatment is different from traditional methods

used to teach children with autism?

> A.

>

> Sure. A traditional way might be to say the word " ball. " The child is sitting

at the table, and the adult holds the ball and says: " Say ball. Say ball. " If

the child makes a sound that's kind of like ball, they hand them an M & M or juice

or a cracker. They do it again. " Say ball. " They want the child to say it a

little more clearly. If they do, the child receives a reinforcement. If not, the

ball goes away for a minute. If the child says something like " ba, " they get the

reward.

> Q.

>

> So how would you teach a child using this new method?

> A.

>

> In this interaction, there might be a little boy in a playroom with an adult.

There's a bucket of balls, and the adult is on the floor. The boy picks up a

ball, and the therapist picks up a ball. The therapist empties out the bucket.

Then she throws her ball into the bucket and says " ball. " He watches and throws.

She says " ball " again. She reaches in and picks up the ball and says, " Do you

want ball? " And she says, " ball, " and hands it to him. She picks up another ball

and throws it into the bucket.

>

> Each time he says something, she gives him the ball. The two are playing a

game of throwing balls in a bucket. They throw to each other. They might be

bouncing the balls. There is a lot of variation going on. The therapist is using

the child's interest to get him focused on saying the word. Having the ball is a

reward for making sounds. She's also working on throwing skills.

>

> All of this is going on while they are smiling and having a good time, rolling

it back and forth, practicing social play and turn taking. In this episode, you

see the child has lots of learning activities. It's the same thing the other

child is learning, but now he's doing it in a more meaningful way. He's

motivated to have it and say it. It's a rich learning situation that's a lot of

fun and motivated by a child's pleasure.

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> Full articles

>

> http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/iq-boost-for-toddlers-with-autism/

>

>

> http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/peds.2009-0958v1

>

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

you didn't ramble on at all and I know that's exactly what's going on.

Children with apraxia are now viewed on the spectrum since apraxia can so

frequently be found in autistic children today. However just like one can have

sensory issues without autism -and even without a speech delay of any sort, one

can have apraxia without autism and the diagnosis of autism in not just my

opinion is being overused to umbrella just about any " late talker " child with

sensory issues. And for those that think speech and sensory alone mean

autism...if any adult is in a car accident and they have a head injury and

develop speech and sensory issues...does that mean they have acquired autism?

That's not what autism was years ago as the definition continues to broaden and

morph to include more and more of the pediatric and adult population. 50 years

ago autism was called childhood schizophrenia and when those children grew up

they were " indistinguishable " from adult schizophrenics. Autism used to not

mean an expressive impairment of speech - a receptive impairment of language was

one of the signs.

And speaking of when misdiagnosis is possible or not. In reality misdiagnosis

is always going to be a concern when there are no definitive testing method

outside of opinion (and of course the " checklist " ) We have parents here who

have taken the exact same child to 4 professionals and got different diagnosis

from each. Clearly at least 3 misdiagnosed the same child, possibly all 4. So

what therapy? What placement is appropriate. You see that is all that matters

to us -the parents. We want to provide our child with the best possible

prognosis and in order to do that you need an appropriate diagnosis. Also if a

child is not progressing then either the therapy, therapist, and/or diagnosis

can be inappropriate. We must not let months and years slip by based on the

assumption that misdiagnosis of autism is rare!

I have heard from 2 doctors, one a PhD and one an MD from TWO SEPARATE STATES

that did not speak to each other...separately...that " 40 % " " 50% " (that was the

only part of the quote that was different) " of the children that come to me

today diagnosed as autistic are not autistic but apraxic " And the one stressed

that there are far more autistic children today than ever that have the duel

diagnosis of both autism and apraxia.

Listen if the therapies were the same then who would care about the name?

Nobody. Point is if you have a child that is NOT autistic -and is just apraxic

-or has a speech delay and sensory issues but no other " signs of autism " other

than that- then you should seek second opinions from knowledgeable about autism

and other communication impairments professionals because you do not want

therapy and placement for autism unless your child is autistic.

Not autistic in today's morphed version of the definition which of course is

going to push more and more conditions there because quite honestly that's where

the funding is -but autistic in the true sense of what autism is.

We have parents in this group that have children that are both autistic and

apraxic, we have parents that have one child with autism and one with apraxia,

and we have quite a few parents who have children that were misdiagnosed with

autism. Based on feedback from this group and from professionals -having a

child misdiagnosed with autism isn't rare...but it is sad.

Have you read any of Mel's blog? (Real Life Little Mermaid) If you go to

http://www.pursuitofresearch.org and click on blogs it's right there up on top.

That's probably the worst of the stories out of our group.

Even outside of apraxia -here are other ways autism can be misdiagnosed

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/a/autism/misdiag.htm#alternative_diagnoses

What is rare today is for articles/professionals like the one I had below to

even 'consider' that just perhaps the 18 month old babies were not autistic to

begin with and that's why they responded to the intensive play interaction!!!!!

There are numerous studies on how powerful play is to a growing child...but if

it's not on the top of the Google search engine -like Auld Lang Syne they " be

forgot "

=====

[Guest guest]

do you mean the other way around? Have you been around any child with

severe autism and tried to play with them? A former neighbor who tried at the

time every available method for her severe autistic son -and this is a family

where money wasn't an issue from NJ -in teen years needed to institutionalize

her son because he was in his own world and for reasons only known to him would

occasionally lash out and attack his family. He was put away after throwing a

knife during one of his fits. This was years ago when we first started the

nonprofit and this mom brought her son over to my house and I sat on the floor

next to him and tried to interact with him for awhile with various toys and

books -he was 13 at the time. I'm not a therapist but have been a toy inventor

and am typically pretty good at playing with kids. The only thing that this

child wanted to do was hold a string that he found and he spinned it around and

around and around. There was not one response from him about me, no eye contact

at all with anyone...the only thing he seemed to notice was the string. And as

he spun it around he started to make noises louder and louder. More grunting-

not talking at all.

It was after he left with the mom that I learned from another neighbor about how

he would for no reason just attack at times and the knife story. I had him in

my house with my 2 boys who were at the time very small and yes in hindsight I

didn't ask her to bring him over -people used to just bring kids over to my

house without asking because they knew I ran a nonprofit but prior to this one

situation I never felt I put my family in any type of danger. Severe autism

in my opinion is not at all the same as mild to moderate autism -and I could be

wrong but I highly doubt that play therapy is the answer for severe autism. If

only it was. Then again...If we think intensive play therapy cures autism then

in my opinion you are putting unfounded blame on the parents.

=====

[Guest guest]

no i didnt really

we foiund play was good for ours when she was ATEC 74 but then we moved to ABA

once we had calm girl and eye contact. sound liek the ones u are talking about

are far more severe

[Guest guest]

I agree with you so wholeheartedly. I think that many children are misdiagnosed

with many things, not just autism. But, autism is so well know now and so up

front in the media that it seems every child who has some social and

communication issue is considered " on the spectrum " . I also agree that " play "

therapy works better, the less impaired the child is. the more severe the

detachment, the more structured and ritualized the program should be (like ABA).

There are also many variations and " spin-offs " of ABA and also some watered down

versions. Some of these programs work better with the kids who show some

tendencies of autism, but who may not be autistic. I know that my son displays

oddities and behaviors that could be pigeon-holed into the spectrum, but his

issues are due to his years of frustration (from not being able to speak) and

from sensory issues. If I checked off a checklist about him thinking only of

how he acts in new situations, especially with peers, he would have many of the

autistic behaviors. But, if i do the same checklist looking at him as he acts

with his sister and cousins, it is a different kid. Today, doctors are under

pressure to diagnosis and get the kid services. It is so difficult to get

services without a dx. Sometimes I guess they feel it's better to have a

working dx than none at all. But, as a parent, you have to search and find the

best program for your child. I know that the program can make all the

difference. My son is in a different program htan last year and what a

difference. The first week he came home humming! I couldn't beleive it. He

still doesn't really say much at school unless it's one on one w/ a therapist,

but he comes home and sings all the songs with me! What a difference a year

makes!

[Guest guest]

My son has received in-home play based and pivotal response ABA for about 1

year. He is NOT diagnosed as autistic (he has been seen by developmental ped,

ped neurologist, and psychologist specializing in early developmental/autism) .

ABA has been phenomenal for him. I think it is really important that the

caregiver research the ABA therapists and the ABA company. The " girls " have

taught both of us PECS (not just a picture system, but true PECS) and are now

working with us training my son in his AAC device, not to mention verbal

language. They are helping him with self help skills and even basic oral motor

activities (overseen by his ST and OT). I have two hours/week of parent

training, which has been fantastic. A lot of work on my part, but worth it to be

a more involved parent. You think you know how to play with your kids, but I

have learned how to interact more efficiently. You would be surprised at how

many parents think playing with their kid is just taking their turn on the board

game or throwing a ball at them. ABA Therapy has taught my whole family how to

use most opportunities of play for learning. I use ABA techniques with my

neurotypical 6 year old son. Sometimes I think he needs it more than my special

needs, 3 1/2 year old! But I definitely agree with you, , that you

shouldn't just take everything offered to you. My school district talked about

school based ABA for my son, but I said I wasn't interested. Their type of ABA

was too structured for my liking, plus it would have been inappropriate for my

son. I tell each parent to DO THEIR RESEARCH! We LOVE our ABA Therapists!

-Jenna

(mom to Larsyn 3.8 yo dx: severe verbal apraxia, dyspraxia, hypotonia, sensory

processing dysfunction AND Chance 6.3 yo NT)

Orange County, CA

>

> What an interesting article/study. The question that arises to me is was it

that the play therapy was far superior to the traditional autism therapy for

these " very young " children diagnosed as autistic...or was it just that the

therapy for autism is only appropriate for children that are truly autistic and

these diagnosed as autistic but possibly not autistic children responded to the

play interaction vs ABA? Interesting that they credit the change in diagnosis

only to the intensive play therapy...and not even mention possibility of

MISDIAGNOSIS (I mean is it me or is that just beyond silly that the thought that

perhaps autism is being overdiagnosed is not even mentioned? What?

Professionals can't make mistakes?! Um Yes they can!!!)

>

> To me when I read this article it teaches once again that inappropriate

therapy even in large amounts which most new parents take as a gift so will sign

whatever diagnosis including MR just to get services -is like a Monkey's Paw

gift.

>

> Another question...is the following therapy (the play one not the ABA one)

typical of how most of us would play with our kids or is that just me???!!! If

it's not typical of you then this article shows just how powerful getting on the

floor and playing with all those new presents with your kids is!

>

> Clips from article:

>

> The program, called the Early Start Denver Model, or E.S.D.M., was part of a

two-year study of 48 children as young as 18 months old. Half the children

received the intensive therapy, while the rest received a community-based autism

intervention, according to a report in the journal Pediatrics.

>

> While children in both groups improved, the gains were greater in the Early

Start program. At the conclusion of the study, the I.Q.'s of children who took

part in the E.S.D.M. program had improved by about 18 points, compared with a 4

point improvement in the other group. Children in the treatment group also

posted bigger gains in listening and comprehension skills. For seven of the

children in the treatment group, the improvements were pronounced enough to

warrant a change in diagnosis from autism to a milder condition, whereas only

one child in the community-based intervention group was given a less severe

diagnosis.

>

> Q.

>

> Can you explain how the new treatment is different from traditional methods

used to teach children with autism?

> A.

>

> Sure. A traditional way might be to say the word " ball. " The child is sitting

at the table, and the adult holds the ball and says: " Say ball. Say ball. " If

the child makes a sound that's kind of like ball, they hand them an M & M or juice

or a cracker. They do it again. " Say ball. " They want the child to say it a

little more clearly. If they do, the child receives a reinforcement. If not, the

ball goes away for a minute. If the child says something like " ba, " they get the

reward.

> Q.

>

> So how would you teach a child using this new method?

> A.

>

> In this interaction, there might be a little boy in a playroom with an adult.

There's a bucket of balls, and the adult is on the floor. The boy picks up a

ball, and the therapist picks up a ball. The therapist empties out the bucket.

Then she throws her ball into the bucket and says " ball. " He watches and throws.

She says " ball " again. She reaches in and picks up the ball and says, " Do you

want ball? " And she says, " ball, " and hands it to him. She picks up another ball

and throws it into the bucket.

>

> Each time he says something, she gives him the ball. The two are playing a

game of throwing balls in a bucket. They throw to each other. They might be

bouncing the balls. There is a lot of variation going on. The therapist is using

the child's interest to get him focused on saying the word. Having the ball is a

reward for making sounds. She's also working on throwing skills.

>

> All of this is going on while they are smiling and having a good time, rolling

it back and forth, practicing social play and turn taking. In this episode, you

see the child has lots of learning activities. It's the same thing the other

child is learning, but now he's doing it in a more meaningful way. He's

motivated to have it and say it. It's a rich learning situation that's a lot of

fun and motivated by a child's pleasure.

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> Full articles

>

> http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/iq-boost-for-toddlers-with-autism/

>

>

> http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/peds.2009-0958v1

>

>

> =====

>