Re: what do surges look like?

[Guest guest]

Thought I'd repost this to see if anyone had any responses.

>

> We started Madelyn (26 months) on one Omega 369 3 days ago. I haven't really

noticed much of a difference yet, but her SLP noticed her making more attempts

to repeat words this morning, she made the " p " sound for the first time and and

even came close to a fishface. Hmmm, maybe there has been a difference after

all. I haven't mentioned anything to her SLP about the oils. What should I be

looking for?

> Madelyn was largely silent before speech therapy began in May and is now a

jargoning chatterbox, although has maybe 3 understandable words.

>

> Also, in line with the question about when to stop the supplementation in

preparation for an evaluation, how does that work? If the SLP is documenting

progress made, and the ability of the child, aren't there going to be

discrepancies during the evaluation once the child is taken off? For example,

our therapist needs to complete a progress report in 2 months for our transition

meeting out of E.I. and into CPSE. Wouldn't she be checking off things that

Madelyn can do, but wouldn't be able to do once off the fish oils? If she gets

that surge we're hoping for, perhaps E.I. would decrease the 5x per week to 3x

per week. Or, if it goes on to help with attention span and focus, wouldn't her

special instructor note the gains, and perhaps not recommend therapy, even

though she needs it. Or do the kids still show the same signs of apraxia and

other issues just to a lesser extent? Do they regress back to before they had

supplementation, or have a loss of some skills? I hope those questions make

sense. We also have an appointment with a new neuro in the end of October, and I

need to plan for that initial visit.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here are some of the initial surges I saw in my son. I started him on fish oil

NN369 when he was 32 months.

Before he would babble with no real words. He would not mimic anything we said

and would give up after two tries of communication with us. He could say mom,

dad, happy and green e go consistently. We taught him baby sign for basic needs

and wants. I had taught him the alphabet, letter sound and he could read car,

up, and we were working on other words.

I started him on fish oil in Oct, three days later we were in the store and I

was pointing everything out and talking to him constantly like I always did. He

started mimicking me!! he said red, orange, blue, black, brown, green, pink.

Every word I would say he would approximate. Such a hurdle. How are you

supposed to teach a child to talk if they never mimic you? Every day it just

went on and on, for weeks he learned about 5-10 word approximations a day. When

I stopped the fish oil he didn't regress, but didn't make any gains. He would

mark places in his sentences. mommy, un un un geen car. (I want a green car)

I started him on NV in March. He had just turned three, and although he had

hundreds of words, it seemed I was the only one who understood him. He started

making gains again within three days. Putting words together in 3-5 word

sentences, much more clarity, started singing within 2 weeks, at the same time

he started playing imaginatively and gained 2 lbs (he had only gained 2 lbs in

the entire year before). within three weeks he potty trained, started sleeping

through the night, smiling on command. and in six weeks he had gained another

lb. Unfortunately, he decided NV was not a food he wanted after about 6 weeks

and since then it has been a struggle to get 1/4th of the dosage in him. We also

started speech and it was a bad fit. So he regressed in potty training and then

went through a growth spurt and started waking in the night again also. He lost

the un un un and now his sentences are varied lengths and he gets all the words

said, but often in the wrong order. He's now just on NV and fish oils and not in

any therapy.

Does this help? When looking for surges, look for any change that keeps

changing. For us it was babble-->mimicking and directed play-->imaginative play

and greater body awareness.

> >

> > We started Madelyn (26 months) on one Omega 369 3 days ago. I haven't really

noticed much of a difference yet, but her SLP noticed her making more attempts

to repeat words this morning, she made the " p " sound for the first time and and

even came close to a fishface. Hmmm, maybe there has been a difference after

all. I haven't mentioned anything to her SLP about the oils. What should I be

looking for?

> > Madelyn was largely silent before speech therapy began in May and is now a

jargoning chatterbox, although has maybe 3 understandable words.

> >

> > Also, in line with the question about when to stop the supplementation in

preparation for an evaluation, how does that work? If the SLP is documenting

progress made, and the ability of the child, aren't there going to be

discrepancies during the evaluation once the child is taken off? For example,

our therapist needs to complete a progress report in 2 months for our transition

meeting out of E.I. and into CPSE. Wouldn't she be checking off things that

Madelyn can do, but wouldn't be able to do once off the fish oils? If she gets

that surge we're hoping for, perhaps E.I. would decrease the 5x per week to 3x

per week. Or, if it goes on to help with attention span and focus, wouldn't her

special instructor note the gains, and perhaps not recommend therapy, even

though she needs it. Or do the kids still show the same signs of apraxia and

other issues just to a lesser extent? Do they regress back to before they had

supplementation, or have a loss of some skills? I hope those questions make

sense. We also have an appointment with a new neuro in the end of October, and I

need to plan for that initial visit.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi :

Here's our story if it is of help. Our son, , will be 3 1/2 yrs old in a

couple of weeks. We started him on NN 3,6,9 (0.5 - 1 tsp a day) when he was 27

months. At that time, he was trying to communicate, but was completely

unintelligable. I have footage of him talking literally days before we started

the fish oil on my blog ( http://www.apraxiastory.wordpress.com ) if you want to

check it out. He did not mimick/try to imitate us, but at least tried to

communicate some when he really needed something; often times with physical

movements to act out what he wanted. I was the only person who could understand

him. After a week or so on 3,6,9 he started trying to communicate more and

more. Chatterbox is a good way to say it, even though it was total babble to

others (it wasn't to me!) He was a little over 2 yrs old so we assumed " it's

finally his developmental milestone kicking in - normal for his age. " He tried

to imitate more and went out of his way to communicate for everything. Lots of

unprompted speech, although still very inarticulate. We weren't sure if it was

the fish oils or not. After about 5 months of being on NN, we took him off for

an entire week to prepare for some labwork we were having done. OMG! Within

3-4 days we saw HUGE regressions and it was only then that we realized how

integral fish oils were for . In that 5 months we had also started PROMPT

therapy and had seen some major gains with the combo of PROMPT and fish oils.

We were really starting to understand him more and more. In a matter of days it

was all gone. Not 100%, but I'd say 60% at least. Additionally, he was

extremely agitated, couldn't sleep well and was almost hyperactive. He had melt

downs all day every day. Once we put him back on NN he went right back to

normal within 3-4 days. None of the gains were permanently lost with the

regression. It was like a light switch had been flipped back on and it all came

back. But I must say that week or so off NN was hard to watch. It was an awful

experience, but necessary one for us to realize how important supplementation

would be for him. So...long story short, he didn't regress completely, but

definitley enough to get services at the time.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Sharon

svraciu@...

>

> We started Madelyn (26 months) on one Omega 369 3 days ago. I haven't really

noticed much of a difference yet, but her SLP noticed her making more attempts

to repeat words this morning, she made the " p " sound for the first time and and

even came close to a fishface. Hmmm, maybe there has been a difference after

all. I haven't mentioned anything to her SLP about the oils. What should I be

looking for?

> Madelyn was largely silent before speech therapy began in May and is now a

jargoning chatterbox, although has maybe 3 understandable words.

>

> Also, in line with the question about when to stop the supplementation in

preparation for an evaluation, how does that work? If the SLP is documenting

progress made, and the ability of the child, aren't there going to be

discrepancies during the evaluation once the child is taken off? For example,

our therapist needs to complete a progress report in 2 months for our transition

meeting out of E.I. and into CPSE. Wouldn't she be checking off things that

Madelyn can do, but wouldn't be able to do once off the fish oils? If she gets

that surge we're hoping for, perhaps E.I. would decrease the 5x per week to 3x

per week. Or, if it goes on to help with attention span and focus, wouldn't her

special instructor note the gains, and perhaps not recommend therapy, even

though she needs it. Or do the kids still show the same signs of apraxia and

other issues just to a lesser extent? Do they regress back to before they had

supplementation, or have a loss of some skills? I hope those questions make

sense. We also have an appointment with a new neuro in the end of October, and I

need to plan for that initial visit.

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi !

Unlike NV which contains all the essential amino acids that one needs to consume

daily; the essential fatty acids from what I have been told take a bit more time

to build up, and a bit more time to deplete. Now don't get me wrong -many of us

-me included see regressions starting in as quickly as one day when taken off

(prior to NV -just have to add that) I was told by one of the doctors as a

literal example that the brain is like a sponge - which is why it takes time to

build up and deplete. We see surges with fish oils in a day to three weeks

-typically a week (so 3 days would be a great sign!!! And yes what you are

seeing are " subtle " signs right now -first stage- I'll share more on that below)

NV we see surges within the first day to three days -so much quicker.

Interestingly however when taken off both there is a regression but it does

appear so far that the fish oil rebound back to before is much quicker than NV

for the second time after you pull them off. Not crazy long but can take about

a week. Do not know why.

Here are signs of what to look for in the way of surges for fish oils from our

http://www.apraxia.org page. I just want to point out that the same thing is

happening with NV that happened with fish oils except now it's faster. Yes

there are awesome parents that stick around to help others even when their child

is doing amazing like Sharon who just answered you (and here is her son's before

and after videos on NV as well

http://apraxiastory.wordpress.com/before-after-video/ ) but you'll know when

you hit the surge when you don't worry so much about the future -you've seen the

light at the end of the tunnel. Right now with what you have seen -you probably

doubt any of it has anything to do with anything...that's normal. Trust me when

there is a true surge it's one you can't miss. It's like asking how do you know

when you are in love? And with NV sometimes it is too much too fast in all

these areas http://pursuitofresearch.org/pursuit.html and it's taking the

professionals to point out the surges that the parents think just has to be a

coincidence. When you compare the fish oil and NV surges you'll see what I

mean. In almost all cases no comparison -NV is much quicker and more dramatic

and appears to help the body utilize the essential fats better. Again please

read some theories as to perhaps why here

http://pursuitofresearch.org/science.html and share with your child's

pediatrician. Pretty much all approve it -and those that know about nutrition

not only approve it but are impressed. If nothing else it's good whole food

nutrition...but I'm starting to think of it as good whole food therapy!!!

Oh and one other thing before the following archives- don't use reusable plastic

with fish oils- the oil will bind to the plastic. Kind of like Tupperware

turning yellow orange when you put spaghetti sauce in it. Use instead

disposable, glass, ceramic, metal etc. Also I wouldn't worry about the amount

that is left in the glass -it's not sinking to the bottom -it's on the top as a

film and I don't know if it's possible to get all of it -but the following

suggestions I hope will help- as they worked great !for our family!

Best way to know it's a surge and not a coincidence, a developmental surge that

would have happened anyway? Stop the oils, stop the NV and watch. But trust

me to see your child regress is harder than one can imagine until they see it.

It's a good idea to stop them prior to IEP testing of course. And again it's

not cheating since most of the world doesn't believe they do anything anyway

Before you raise or change the dosage -first start with the 2 ProEFA -let me

know what you see and hear in the next day to 3 weeks which is when you'll

notice the first signs.

Since I receive lots of calls about this -I wanted to list the most

common changes in an apraxic or other speech disordered child on

EFAs from what I've read and heard and seen.

1. Increase in babbling or attempts at sounds.

2. Increase in imitation.

Changes also can be looked for in (what you see as positive or

negative)

sleep

attention

appetite

focus

behavior

stools

Next will come a breakthrough of something you were probably working

on for a bit -so you will be excited but will think " Well -I don't

want to get my hopes up we were working on that for awhile now -

maybe it's just a coincidence " However after the second or third

surge in a short period of time -and then another - you are pretty

sure things are different and it's at this point the professionals

and the rest of the family and your friends are noticing it too -

maybe about two to three weeks now.

OK -the next stage is pure elation and hope -you see the light and

no longer feel as desperate and want to share this new information

with everyone and anyone. As the months go by and your child

continues to progress at a much more rapid rate -you may even start

to doubt the original diagnosis -especially if you started EFA

supplementation at two -and perhaps the SLP that diagnosed the

apraxia who also was at first excited is starting to second guess if

the original diagnosis was correct as well.

Unless you have to stop the ProEFA (or other Essential Fatty Acids)

and literally have the chance to see the regression of acquired

speech and language skills, attempts, and changes in behavior like

we did with Tanner (and/or have a chance to again witness the second

surge when your child is put back on the EFAs) -that doubt will

probably remain somewhere in your mind and in others around your

child. So the " I told you that he would start talking when he was

ready " comments should be expected of course.

Up to this point is understandable to me -it's the point after this

that is confusing to me, and perhaps not the best stage for our

children and for raising awareness or having research done to find

out what is happening to our children and why. Perhaps because we

have truly hit a paradigm shift...

As Dr. Agin states the EFAs actually appear to be in some

ways " curing " the apraxic child -even those diagnosed with severe

oral and verbal apraxia, hypotonia, sensory and behavioral issues.

Especially those started at younger ages.

The child on ProEFA or some other EFA formula's like it no longer

fits the criteria of the classic definition of apraxia -and yet

doesn't fit the classic perception of what a late talker is

either...

Some of the parents become more focused on other everyday activities

with their child and start to drift away from the support sources.

Problem with this attitude is that unless your child is really up to

speed on all aspects of speech and language, the support sources

that helped in the beginning will still benefit your child today.

ProEFA alone is not the only answer and until we know how and why it

works (or why in a handful of children it doesn't) we can't improve

on it "

EFA information

http://www.cherab.org/information/indexinformation.html#diet

EFA tips and sources

http://www.cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efatips.html

http://www.cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efabasics.html

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=115029735601 & topic=7401

And here is an old archive on how to get fish oils in as I believe it was you

that asked about that as well -the following can also be found at our new site

built by the awesome Dad

http://www.cherabfoundation.org/2006/how-do-i-get-my-child-to-eat-fish-oil/

old archive that may help:

My 5 year old apraxic son Tanner is a trooper and takes the ProEFA from a spoon

every day. I hold his nose for him, but he doesn't mind the taste. We started

the holding the nose thing when Tanner used to take the efalex, which is very

fishy smelling and tasting, and it's

kind of our ritual now.

I rip only half of the protective waxy seal off the top of the ProEFA bottle,

and put a pin in the part that is left. When it's time to give Tanner his

ProEFA, I open the top of the bottle, pull out the pin, put a hole in the

capsule, put back the pin, and squeeze the oil onto a spoon.

Here are some other things we used to have to do when Tanner took the efalex

which he hated. (Efalex is fishier tasting and smelling)

1. We would put just put a drop of fish oil in the middle of the bread for a

sandwich and cover with peanut butter, a drop in the middle of a pancake, a drop

in the middle of a bowl of spaghetti, etc. if we put too much fish oil, Tanner

would not eat the food.

2. Glenn and Tanner and Dakota would each hold a cup filled with a dash of

juice. Tanner's juice was always " spiked " with efalex. Tanner is very

competitive and would love a good race. " Ready set Go! " and Glenn would hold the

cup to his mouth without drinking and then stop and have all three compare who

drank the most. Of course, Tanner was winning! They would keep doing this until

Tanner won (which meant he finished the efalex fish oil spiked juice)

3. I used to bribe Tanner with gummy bears that he could have after. Didn't work

as good as the first two. But for a long time we did a combination of number one

and number three.

4. Tanner's older brother started taking the fish oil, and Tanner wants to do

what Dakota does.

5. As Tanner got older, at about four, we started calling the fish oil " yucky

magic fish oil which helps you talk " and we really made a big deal about how

yucky it was, and would " show off " to people how Tanner could take this yucky

stuff and eat it right off the spoon. It worked for Tanner!

It was lots of work, but well worth the results. If your child will not take

ProEFA, maybe buy some efalex and try that. Compared to efalex, a sock would

probably be a treat!

Again, some EFAs are liked by some children-hated by others. With ProEFA - many

kids from the Cherab group will just eat it from a spoon, or chew the capsule

since borage oil is naturally sweet. I can say that ProEFA does not smell like

some of the other EFAs we've

used. After a year and a half of Tanner hiding behind the couch when it was time

to take other fish oils, this was amazing even without all the great

breakthroughs he's had!

The improvements when on the right supplement and the regressions on the wrong

one are pretty quick-within weeks in most cases-so again you can see for

yourself-like most of us did already!

http://www.cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efatips.html#My

=====

[Guest guest]

And just checked the archives -you are super newbie and are here less than a

month- so below is your first message here. It's good to write here because

it's like keeping a journal where you can track progress when you don't believe

it's happening fast enough. (some do that with actual journals or online blogs

too -it's all good!)

I think with therapy we all accept years and years of intensive and sometimes

daily or almost daily therapy for progress -but we are disappointed in days or

months even when seeing surges with things like fish oil and NV. I believe once

both are validated that will stop. Just like traditional therapy takes time -so

do the essential fatty and amino acids...just no where near as long

Again yes you are in my opinion already seeing surges -so stay tuned for the

first word/s in the next few day to week or so -and please share!!!

Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:16 am

" modelmomnyc " <elee1222@...>

new here

Hi everyone,

My name is , and my 2 year old, Madelyn brings me here. She was born at

34 weeks after my water broke at 26 weeks. She has hypotonia and motor planning

issues (along with some minor sensory issues) and has had PT and OT starting at

11 months. She started speech/feeding therapy at 22 months. Her SLP says she has

apraxia. She says " Mama " and " Dada " " yes " and " juice " . She can say sounds, but

can't put them together. For example, she can say " u " and " p " , but not " up " . I

tried some of the things listed on the site like encouraging her to stick out

her tongue, and she cannot do them. She used to overstuff and gag a lot, but the

feeding therapy has helped with that.

Madelyn signs (has about 20 words), but her therapist doesn't encourage signing.

She wants her to talk, I want her to communicate so she doesn't get so

frustrated.

When we were evaluating her for her developmental issues at 10 months, we went

to a neurologist. It was a horrible experience. All of her tests came back clear

and since she has been making progress physically, we haven't been back. Now I

am wondering if we should return to get an official diagnosis, and if that would

qualify her for more services, or if the SLP diagnosis is enough. She gets 2-30

minute sessions a week now, which clearly isn't enough.

I am a bit overwhelmed by all of this, and would love any advice or tips. My

other kids were talking in sentences by or before 2, so the fact that Maddi has

4 unclear words has been tough.

Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

=====

[Guest guest]

>

> And just checked the archives -you are super newbie and are here less than a

month- so below is your first message here. It's good to write here because

it's like keeping a journal where you can track progress when you don't believe

it's happening fast enough. (some do that with actual journals or online blogs

too -it's all good!)

>

> I think with therapy we all accept years and years of intensive and sometimes

daily or almost daily therapy for progress -but we are disappointed in days or

months even when seeing surges with things like fish oil and NV. I believe once

both are validated that will stop. Just like traditional therapy takes time -so

do the essential fatty and amino acids...just no where near as long

>

> Again yes you are in my opinion already seeing surges -so stay tuned for the

first word/s in the next few day to week or so -and please share!!!

>

> Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:16 am

> " modelmomnyc " <elee1222@...>

>

> new here

>

> Hi everyone,

> My name is , and my 2 year old, Madelyn brings me here. She was born

at

> 34 weeks after my water broke at 26 weeks. She has hypotonia and motor

planning

> issues (along with some minor sensory issues) and has had PT and OT starting

at

> 11 months. She started speech/feeding therapy at 22 months. Her SLP says she

has

> apraxia. She says " Mama " and " Dada " " yes " and " juice " . She can say sounds, but

> can't put them together. For example, she can say " u " and " p " , but not " up " . I

> tried some of the things listed on the site like encouraging her to stick out

> her tongue, and she cannot do them. She used to overstuff and gag a lot, but

the

> feeding therapy has helped with that.

>

> Madelyn signs (has about 20 words), but her therapist doesn't encourage

signing.

> She wants her to talk, I want her to communicate so she doesn't get so

> frustrated.

> When we were evaluating her for her developmental issues at 10 months, we went

> to a neurologist. It was a horrible experience. All of her tests came back

clear

> and since she has been making progress physically, we haven't been back. Now I

> am wondering if we should return to get an official diagnosis, and if that

would

> qualify her for more services, or if the SLP diagnosis is enough. She gets

2-30

> minute sessions a week now, which clearly isn't enough.

>

> I am a bit overwhelmed by all of this, and would love any advice or tips. My

> other kids were talking in sentences by or before 2, so the fact that Maddi

has

> 4 unclear words has been tough.

>

> Thanks.

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Okay, thanks to all of the stories and examples, I now I have an idea of what a

surge might be. I think Madelyn has definitely had a mini surge. Her SLP

mentioned it this morning again, as she was able to do things today that she

couldn't do yesterday, so I told her about the fish oils. She also seems to

require less sleep. She used to sleep 12-13 hours at night and take a 2-3 hour

nap. Her nap is down to 1 1/2-2 hours and she is waking much earlier in the

morning, and tolerating staying up later.

We're starting her on a trial of dairy to see if she has grown out of the

allergy, because I really want to use the NV.

,

Your words, " Again yes you are in my opinion already seeing surges -so stay

tuned for the first word/s in the next few day to week or so -and please

share!!! " brought a smile to my face. I can't wait to be able to post about her

first real word. Thanks for the encouragement!

Sharon,

It was great to see the videos of 's progress. I am simply amazed at the

differences! Madelyn is 26 months, and is not speaking nearly as well as

was at 27 months, but it gives a wonderful, concrete example of how much the

oils, NV, (and therapy of course) help. I did notice that you mentioned he was

allergic to dairy. I am assuming he never had a reaction to the NV? I am so

eager to try it after Madelyn has been on oils for a while, but am concerned

about the possible reaction.

>

> Hi !

>

> Unlike NV which contains all the essential amino acids that one needs to

consume daily; the essential fatty acids from what I have been told take a bit

more time to build up, and a bit more time to deplete. Now don't get me wrong

-many of us -me included see regressions starting in as quickly as one day when

taken off (prior to NV -just have to add that) I was told by one of the doctors

as a literal example that the brain is like a sponge - which is why it takes

time to build up and deplete. We see surges with fish oils in a day to three

weeks -typically a week (so 3 days would be a great sign!!! And yes what you

are seeing are " subtle " signs right now -first stage- I'll share more on that

below) NV we see surges within the first day to three days -so much quicker.

Interestingly however when taken off both there is a regression but it does

appear so far that the fish oil rebound back to before is much quicker than NV

for the second time after you pull them off. Not crazy long but can take about

a week. Do not know why.

>

> Here are signs of what to look for in the way of surges for fish oils from our

http://www.apraxia.org page. I just want to point out that the same thing is

happening with NV that happened with fish oils except now it's faster. Yes

there are awesome parents that stick around to help others even when their child

is doing amazing like Sharon who just answered you (and here is her son's before

and after videos on NV as well

http://apraxiastory.wordpress.com/before-after-video/ ) but you'll know when

you hit the surge when you don't worry so much about the future -you've seen the

light at the end of the tunnel. Right now with what you have seen -you probably

doubt any of it has anything to do with anything...that's normal. Trust me when

there is a true surge it's one you can't miss. It's like asking how do you know

when you are in love? And with NV sometimes it is too much too fast in all

these areas http://pursuitofresearch.org/pursuit.html and it's taking the

professionals to point out the surges that the parents think just has to be a

coincidence. When you compare the fish oil and NV surges you'll see what I

mean. In almost all cases no comparison -NV is much quicker and more dramatic

and appears to help the body utilize the essential fats better. Again please

read some theories as to perhaps why here

http://pursuitofresearch.org/science.html and share with your child's

pediatrician. Pretty much all approve it -and those that know about nutrition

not only approve it but are impressed. If nothing else it's good whole food

nutrition...but I'm starting to think of it as good whole food therapy!!!

>

> Oh and one other thing before the following archives- don't use reusable

plastic with fish oils- the oil will bind to the plastic. Kind of like

Tupperware turning yellow orange when you put spaghetti sauce in it. Use

instead disposable, glass, ceramic, metal etc. Also I wouldn't worry about the

amount that is left in the glass -it's not sinking to the bottom -it's on the

top as a film and I don't know if it's possible to get all of it -but the

following suggestions I hope will help- as they worked great !for our family!

>

> Best way to know it's a surge and not a coincidence, a developmental surge

that would have happened anyway? Stop the oils, stop the NV and watch. But

trust me to see your child regress is harder than one can imagine until they see

it.

>

> It's a good idea to stop them prior to IEP testing of course. And again it's

not cheating since most of the world doesn't believe they do anything anyway

>

> Before you raise or change the dosage -first start with the 2 ProEFA -let me

know what you see and hear in the next day to 3 weeks which is when you'll

notice the first signs.

>

> Since I receive lots of calls about this -I wanted to list the most

> common changes in an apraxic or other speech disordered child on

> EFAs from what I've read and heard and seen.

>

> 1. Increase in babbling or attempts at sounds.

> 2. Increase in imitation.

> Changes also can be looked for in (what you see as positive or

> negative)

> sleep

> attention

> appetite

> focus

> behavior

> stools

>

> Next will come a breakthrough of something you were probably working

> on for a bit -so you will be excited but will think " Well -I don't

> want to get my hopes up we were working on that for awhile now -

> maybe it's just a coincidence " However after the second or third

> surge in a short period of time -and then another - you are pretty

> sure things are different and it's at this point the professionals

> and the rest of the family and your friends are noticing it too -

> maybe about two to three weeks now.

>

> OK -the next stage is pure elation and hope -you see the light and

> no longer feel as desperate and want to share this new information

> with everyone and anyone. As the months go by and your child

> continues to progress at a much more rapid rate -you may even start

> to doubt the original diagnosis -especially if you started EFA

> supplementation at two -and perhaps the SLP that diagnosed the

> apraxia who also was at first excited is starting to second guess if

> the original diagnosis was correct as well.

>

> Unless you have to stop the ProEFA (or other Essential Fatty Acids)

> and literally have the chance to see the regression of acquired

> speech and language skills, attempts, and changes in behavior like

> we did with Tanner (and/or have a chance to again witness the second

> surge when your child is put back on the EFAs) -that doubt will

> probably remain somewhere in your mind and in others around your

> child. So the " I told you that he would start talking when he was

> ready " comments should be expected of course.

>

> Up to this point is understandable to me -it's the point after this

> that is confusing to me, and perhaps not the best stage for our

> children and for raising awareness or having research done to find

> out what is happening to our children and why. Perhaps because we

> have truly hit a paradigm shift...

>

> As Dr. Agin states the EFAs actually appear to be in some

> ways " curing " the apraxic child -even those diagnosed with severe

> oral and verbal apraxia, hypotonia, sensory and behavioral issues.

> Especially those started at younger ages.

>

> The child on ProEFA or some other EFA formula's like it no longer

> fits the criteria of the classic definition of apraxia -and yet

> doesn't fit the classic perception of what a late talker is

> either...

>

> Some of the parents become more focused on other everyday activities

> with their child and start to drift away from the support sources.

> Problem with this attitude is that unless your child is really up to

> speed on all aspects of speech and language, the support sources

> that helped in the beginning will still benefit your child today.

> ProEFA alone is not the only answer and until we know how and why it

> works (or why in a handful of children it doesn't) we can't improve

> on it "

>

> EFA information

> http://www.cherab.org/information/indexinformation.html#diet

>

> EFA tips and sources

> http://www.cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efatips.html

>

> http://www.cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efabasics.html

>

>

> http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=115029735601 & topic=7401

>

> And here is an old archive on how to get fish oils in as I believe it was you

that asked about that as well -the following can also be found at our new site

built by the awesome Dad

http://www.cherabfoundation.org/2006/how-do-i-get-my-child-to-eat-fish-oil/

>

> old archive that may help:

>

> My 5 year old apraxic son Tanner is a trooper and takes the ProEFA from a

spoon every day. I hold his nose for him, but he doesn't mind the taste. We

started the holding the nose thing when Tanner used to take the efalex, which is

very fishy smelling and tasting, and it's

> kind of our ritual now.

>

> I rip only half of the protective waxy seal off the top of the ProEFA bottle,

and put a pin in the part that is left. When it's time to give Tanner his

ProEFA, I open the top of the bottle, pull out the pin, put a hole in the

capsule, put back the pin, and squeeze the oil onto a spoon.

>

> Here are some other things we used to have to do when Tanner took the efalex

which he hated. (Efalex is fishier tasting and smelling)

>

> 1. We would put just put a drop of fish oil in the middle of the bread for a

sandwich and cover with peanut butter, a drop in the middle of a pancake, a drop

in the middle of a bowl of spaghetti, etc. if we put too much fish oil, Tanner

would not eat the food.

>

> 2. Glenn and Tanner and Dakota would each hold a cup filled with a dash of

juice. Tanner's juice was always " spiked " with efalex. Tanner is very

competitive and would love a good race. " Ready set Go! " and Glenn would hold the

cup to his mouth without drinking and then stop and have all three compare who

drank the most. Of course, Tanner was winning! They would keep doing this until

Tanner won (which meant he finished the efalex fish oil spiked juice)

>

> 3. I used to bribe Tanner with gummy bears that he could have after. Didn't

work as good as the first two. But for a long time we did a combination of

number one and number three.

>

> 4. Tanner's older brother started taking the fish oil, and Tanner wants to do

what Dakota does.

>

> 5. As Tanner got older, at about four, we started calling the fish oil " yucky

magic fish oil which helps you talk " and we really made a big deal about how

yucky it was, and would " show off " to people how Tanner could take this yucky

stuff and eat it right off the spoon. It worked for Tanner!

>

> It was lots of work, but well worth the results. If your child will not take

ProEFA, maybe buy some efalex and try that. Compared to efalex, a sock would

probably be a treat!

>

> Again, some EFAs are liked by some children-hated by others. With ProEFA -

many kids from the Cherab group will just eat it from a spoon, or chew the

capsule since borage oil is naturally sweet. I can say that ProEFA does not

smell like some of the other EFAs we've

> used. After a year and a half of Tanner hiding behind the couch when it was

time to take other fish oils, this was amazing even without all the great

breakthroughs he's had!

>

> The improvements when on the right supplement and the regressions on the wrong

one are pretty quick-within weeks in most cases-so again you can see for

yourself-like most of us did already!

> http://www.cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efatips.html#My

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sharon,

Would you say the surges were bigger with NV than the fish oils? I haven't

seen huge surges with either yet...

Still hopeful!

Malinda

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 6:45 PM, vraciup <svraciu@...> wrote:

>

>

> Hi :

>

> Here's our story if it is of help. Our son, , will be 3 1/2 yrs old in

> a couple of weeks. We started him on NN 3,6,9 (0.5 - 1 tsp a day) when he

> was 27 months. At that time, he was trying to communicate, but was

> completely unintelligable. I have footage of him talking literally days

> before we started the fish oil on my blog (

> http://www.apraxiastory.wordpress.com ) if you want to check it out. He

> did not mimick/try to imitate us, but at least tried to communicate some

> when he really needed something; often times with physical movements to act

> out what he wanted. I was the only person who could understand him. After a

> week or so on 3,6,9 he started trying to communicate more and more.

> Chatterbox is a good way to say it, even though it was total babble to

> others (it wasn't to me!) He was a little over 2 yrs old so we assumed " it's

> finally his developmental milestone kicking in - normal for his age. " He

> tried to imitate more and went out of his way to communicate for everything.

> Lots of unprompted speech, although still very inarticulate. We weren't sure

> if it was the fish oils or not. After about 5 months of being on NN, we took

> him off for an entire week to prepare for some labwork we were having done.

> OMG! Within 3-4 days we saw HUGE regressions and it was only then that we

> realized how integral fish oils were for . In that 5 months we had also

> started PROMPT therapy and had seen some major gains with the combo of

> PROMPT and fish oils. We were really starting to understand him more and

> more. In a matter of days it was all gone. Not 100%, but I'd say 60% at

> least. Additionally, he was extremely agitated, couldn't sleep well and was

> almost hyperactive. He had melt downs all day every day. Once we put him

> back on NN he went right back to normal within 3-4 days. None of the gains

> were permanently lost with the regression. It was like a light switch had

> been flipped back on and it all came back. But I must say that week or so

> off NN was hard to watch. It was an awful experience, but necessary one for

> us to realize how important supplementation would be for him. So...long

> story short, he didn't regress completely, but definitley enough to get

> services at the time.

>

> Good luck and let us know how it goes!

>

> Sharon

> svraciu@... <svraciu%40hotmail.com>

>

>

> >

> > We started Madelyn (26 months) on one Omega 369 3 days ago. I haven't

> really noticed much of a difference yet, but her SLP noticed her making more

> attempts to repeat words this morning, she made the " p " sound for the first

> time and and even came close to a fishface. Hmmm, maybe there has been a

> difference after all. I haven't mentioned anything to her SLP about the

> oils. What should I be looking for?

> > Madelyn was largely silent before speech therapy began in May and is now

> a jargoning chatterbox, although has maybe 3 understandable words.

> >

> > Also, in line with the question about when to stop the supplementation in

> preparation for an evaluation, how does that work? If the SLP is documenting

> progress made, and the ability of the child, aren't there going to be

> discrepancies during the evaluation once the child is taken off? For

> example, our therapist needs to complete a progress report in 2 months for

> our transition meeting out of E.I. and into CPSE. Wouldn't she be checking

> off things that Madelyn can do, but wouldn't be able to do once off the fish

> oils? If she gets that surge we're hoping for, perhaps E.I. would decrease

> the 5x per week to 3x per week. Or, if it goes on to help with attention

> span and focus, wouldn't her special instructor note the gains, and perhaps

> not recommend therapy, even though she needs it. Or do the kids still show

> the same signs of apraxia and other issues just to a lesser extent? Do they

> regress back to before they had supplementation, or have a loss of some

> skills? I hope those questions make sense. We also have an appointment with

> a new neuro in the end of October, and I need to plan for that initial

> visit.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Malinda.

I'd say the biggest surges were with NutriiVeda. We saw nothing for the first 2

weeks, then woke up one morning and it was like a light switch had been

turned on. We've seen more improvements over time, as we've been on NV for

about 6 months now. My husband is extremely skeptical of improvements. He

always assumes they are natural development b/c is so young and has never

wanted to credit a particular therapy with improvement (other than basic speech

therapy). However, even he couldn't deny the sudden changes we saw with NV.

It's not that they were drastic changes, but they were definite changes and

things we'd never seen before. And, many all at once: eczema gone,

constipation gone, attitude happy and manageable, even downright sweet (dare I

say it!). His appetite was better and his language was GREATLY improved. We

didn't see huge upticks in his articulation immediately, but it did seem to come

with time. I'd say now, 6 months later, is probably 90%-95% understandable

to strangers. For a 3 1/2 yr old, with or even without apraxia I'd say that's

pretty good. I very rarely have to repeat his sentences to others so they can

understand.

I know you were considering increasing the NV dosage - have you tried that yet?

Sharon

> > >

> > > We started Madelyn (26 months) on one Omega 369 3 days ago. I haven't

> > really noticed much of a difference yet, but her SLP noticed her making more

> > attempts to repeat words this morning, she made the " p " sound for the first

> > time and and even came close to a fishface. Hmmm, maybe there has been a

> > difference after all. I haven't mentioned anything to her SLP about the

> > oils. What should I be looking for?

> > > Madelyn was largely silent before speech therapy began in May and is now

> > a jargoning chatterbox, although has maybe 3 understandable words.

> > >

> > > Also, in line with the question about when to stop the supplementation in

> > preparation for an evaluation, how does that work? If the SLP is documenting

> > progress made, and the ability of the child, aren't there going to be

> > discrepancies during the evaluation once the child is taken off? For

> > example, our therapist needs to complete a progress report in 2 months for

> > our transition meeting out of E.I. and into CPSE. Wouldn't she be checking

> > off things that Madelyn can do, but wouldn't be able to do once off the fish

> > oils? If she gets that surge we're hoping for, perhaps E.I. would decrease

> > the 5x per week to 3x per week. Or, if it goes on to help with attention

> > span and focus, wouldn't her special instructor note the gains, and perhaps

> > not recommend therapy, even though she needs it. Or do the kids still show

> > the same signs of apraxia and other issues just to a lesser extent? Do they

> > regress back to before they had supplementation, or have a loss of some

> > skills? I hope those questions make sense. We also have an appointment with

> > a new neuro in the end of October, and I need to plan for that initial

> > visit.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

:

has a mild milk allergy and he hasn't had any negative reactions to NV.

His allergy only showed up in the form of eczema, constipation and stomach ache

(so we think). All this to say it wasn't like he broke out in a rash or had

swelling - no immediate responses when he had milk, like some allergies can be.

After some time on NV his eczema actually went away completely, as did his

constipation. He started having a better/bigger appetite so we though his

stomach ache might be healing up too, but it seems to have reappeared as of

late. I think NV can do LOTS for our kiddos, I certainly won't be taking

off any time soon, but there could be other things at play that I need to deal

with, so I'm still learning/searching on that. He was on 2 antibiotics in the

last month and I'm wondering if they played a role in his now recurrent stomach

aches...we'll see.

Good luck!

Sharon

> >

> > Hi !

> >

> > Unlike NV which contains all the essential amino acids that one needs to

consume daily; the essential fatty acids from what I have been told take a bit

more time to build up, and a bit more time to deplete. Now don't get me wrong

-many of us -me included see regressions starting in as quickly as one day when

taken off (prior to NV -just have to add that) I was told by one of the doctors

as a literal example that the brain is like a sponge - which is why it takes

time to build up and deplete. We see surges with fish oils in a day to three

weeks -typically a week (so 3 days would be a great sign!!! And yes what you

are seeing are " subtle " signs right now -first stage- I'll share more on that

below) NV we see surges within the first day to three days -so much quicker.

Interestingly however when taken off both there is a regression but it does

appear so far that the fish oil rebound back to before is much quicker than NV

for the second time after you pull them off. Not crazy long but can take about

a week. Do not know why.

> >

> > Here are signs of what to look for in the way of surges for fish oils from

our http://www.apraxia.org page. I just want to point out that the same thing

is happening with NV that happened with fish oils except now it's faster. Yes

there are awesome parents that stick around to help others even when their child

is doing amazing like Sharon who just answered you (and here is her son's before

and after videos on NV as well

http://apraxiastory.wordpress.com/before-after-video/ ) but you'll know when

you hit the surge when you don't worry so much about the future -you've seen the

light at the end of the tunnel. Right now with what you have seen -you probably

doubt any of it has anything to do with anything...that's normal. Trust me when

there is a true surge it's one you can't miss. It's like asking how do you know

when you are in love? And with NV sometimes it is too much too fast in all

these areas http://pursuitofresearch.org/pursuit.html and it's taking the

professionals to point out the surges that the parents think just has to be a

coincidence. When you compare the fish oil and NV surges you'll see what I

mean. In almost all cases no comparison -NV is much quicker and more dramatic

and appears to help the body utilize the essential fats better. Again please

read some theories as to perhaps why here

http://pursuitofresearch.org/science.html and share with your child's

pediatrician. Pretty much all approve it -and those that know about nutrition

not only approve it but are impressed. If nothing else it's good whole food

nutrition...but I'm starting to think of it as good whole food therapy!!!

> >

> > Oh and one other thing before the following archives- don't use reusable

plastic with fish oils- the oil will bind to the plastic. Kind of like

Tupperware turning yellow orange when you put spaghetti sauce in it. Use

instead disposable, glass, ceramic, metal etc. Also I wouldn't worry about the

amount that is left in the glass -it's not sinking to the bottom -it's on the

top as a film and I don't know if it's possible to get all of it -but the

following suggestions I hope will help- as they worked great !for our family!

> >

> > Best way to know it's a surge and not a coincidence, a developmental surge

that would have happened anyway? Stop the oils, stop the NV and watch. But

trust me to see your child regress is harder than one can imagine until they see

it.

> >

> > It's a good idea to stop them prior to IEP testing of course. And again

it's not cheating since most of the world doesn't believe they do anything

anyway

> >

> > Before you raise or change the dosage -first start with the 2 ProEFA -let me

know what you see and hear in the next day to 3 weeks which is when you'll

notice the first signs.

> >

> > Since I receive lots of calls about this -I wanted to list the most

> > common changes in an apraxic or other speech disordered child on

> > EFAs from what I've read and heard and seen.

> >

> > 1. Increase in babbling or attempts at sounds.

> > 2. Increase in imitation.

> > Changes also can be looked for in (what you see as positive or

> > negative)

> > sleep

> > attention

> > appetite

> > focus

> > behavior

> > stools

> >

> > Next will come a breakthrough of something you were probably working

> > on for a bit -so you will be excited but will think " Well -I don't

> > want to get my hopes up we were working on that for awhile now -

> > maybe it's just a coincidence " However after the second or third

> > surge in a short period of time -and then another - you are pretty

> > sure things are different and it's at this point the professionals

> > and the rest of the family and your friends are noticing it too -

> > maybe about two to three weeks now.

> >

> > OK -the next stage is pure elation and hope -you see the light and

> > no longer feel as desperate and want to share this new information

> > with everyone and anyone. As the months go by and your child

> > continues to progress at a much more rapid rate -you may even start

> > to doubt the original diagnosis -especially if you started EFA

> > supplementation at two -and perhaps the SLP that diagnosed the

> > apraxia who also was at first excited is starting to second guess if

> > the original diagnosis was correct as well.

> >

> > Unless you have to stop the ProEFA (or other Essential Fatty Acids)

> > and literally have the chance to see the regression of acquired

> > speech and language skills, attempts, and changes in behavior like

> > we did with Tanner (and/or have a chance to again witness the second

> > surge when your child is put back on the EFAs) -that doubt will

> > probably remain somewhere in your mind and in others around your

> > child. So the " I told you that he would start talking when he was

> > ready " comments should be expected of course.

> >

> > Up to this point is understandable to me -it's the point after this

> > that is confusing to me, and perhaps not the best stage for our

> > children and for raising awareness or having research done to find

> > out what is happening to our children and why. Perhaps because we

> > have truly hit a paradigm shift...

> >

> > As Dr. Agin states the EFAs actually appear to be in some

> > ways " curing " the apraxic child -even those diagnosed with severe

> > oral and verbal apraxia, hypotonia, sensory and behavioral issues.

> > Especially those started at younger ages.

> >

> > The child on ProEFA or some other EFA formula's like it no longer

> > fits the criteria of the classic definition of apraxia -and yet

> > doesn't fit the classic perception of what a late talker is

> > either...

> >

> > Some of the parents become more focused on other everyday activities

> > with their child and start to drift away from the support sources.

> > Problem with this attitude is that unless your child is really up to

> > speed on all aspects of speech and language, the support sources

> > that helped in the beginning will still benefit your child today.

> > ProEFA alone is not the only answer and until we know how and why it

> > works (or why in a handful of children it doesn't) we can't improve

> > on it "

> >

> > EFA information

> > http://www.cherab.org/information/indexinformation.html#diet

> >

> > EFA tips and sources

> > http://www.cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efatips.html

> >

> > http://www.cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efabasics.html

> >

> >

> > http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=115029735601 & topic=7401

> >

> > And here is an old archive on how to get fish oils in as I believe it was

you that asked about that as well -the following can also be found at our new

site built by the awesome Dad

http://www.cherabfoundation.org/2006/how-do-i-get-my-child-to-eat-fish-oil/

> >

> > old archive that may help:

> >

> > My 5 year old apraxic son Tanner is a trooper and takes the ProEFA from a

spoon every day. I hold his nose for him, but he doesn't mind the taste. We

started the holding the nose thing when Tanner used to take the efalex, which is

very fishy smelling and tasting, and it's

> > kind of our ritual now.

> >

> > I rip only half of the protective waxy seal off the top of the ProEFA

bottle, and put a pin in the part that is left. When it's time to give Tanner

his ProEFA, I open the top of the bottle, pull out the pin, put a hole in the

capsule, put back the pin, and squeeze the oil onto a spoon.

> >

> > Here are some other things we used to have to do when Tanner took the efalex

which he hated. (Efalex is fishier tasting and smelling)

> >

> > 1. We would put just put a drop of fish oil in the middle of the bread for a

sandwich and cover with peanut butter, a drop in the middle of a pancake, a drop

in the middle of a bowl of spaghetti, etc. if we put too much fish oil, Tanner

would not eat the food.

> >

> > 2. Glenn and Tanner and Dakota would each hold a cup filled with a dash of

juice. Tanner's juice was always " spiked " with efalex. Tanner is very

competitive and would love a good race. " Ready set Go! " and Glenn would hold the

cup to his mouth without drinking and then stop and have all three compare who

drank the most. Of course, Tanner was winning! They would keep doing this until

Tanner won (which meant he finished the efalex fish oil spiked juice)

> >

> > 3. I used to bribe Tanner with gummy bears that he could have after. Didn't

work as good as the first two. But for a long time we did a combination of

number one and number three.

> >

> > 4. Tanner's older brother started taking the fish oil, and Tanner wants to

do what Dakota does.

> >

> > 5. As Tanner got older, at about four, we started calling the fish oil

" yucky magic fish oil which helps you talk " and we really made a big deal about

how yucky it was, and would " show off " to people how Tanner could take this

yucky stuff and eat it right off the spoon. It worked for Tanner!

> >

> > It was lots of work, but well worth the results. If your child will not take

ProEFA, maybe buy some efalex and try that. Compared to efalex, a sock would

probably be a treat!

> >

> > Again, some EFAs are liked by some children-hated by others. With ProEFA -

many kids from the Cherab group will just eat it from a spoon, or chew the

capsule since borage oil is naturally sweet. I can say that ProEFA does not

smell like some of the other EFAs we've

> > used. After a year and a half of Tanner hiding behind the couch when it was

time to take other fish oils, this was amazing even without all the great

breakthroughs he's had!

> >

> > The improvements when on the right supplement and the regressions on the

wrong one are pretty quick-within weeks in most cases-so again you can see for

yourself-like most of us did already!

> > http://www.cherab.org/information/dietaryeffects/efatips.html#My

> >

> > =====

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Sharon,

We've been doing a heaping scoop daily. I've noticed some difference since

we started all this, he makes more attempts and noise, but still mostly the

same " sound " for everything. How much NV are you giving daily?

I've been trying to work on some signs to ease the frustration...

He can start the preschool at early intervention in November when he turns

3. What info do you recommend I bring to ensure he gets the right

type/amount of speech therapy? (I pushed to get him the 1x a week at home

right now) I " m STILL looking for a PROMPT therapist in the Salt Lake area

and will pay the right private provider!)

Thanks for all your inspiration. It's so great to see 's progress!

Malinda

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:46 AM, vraciup <svraciu@...> wrote:

>

>

> Hey Malinda.

>

> I'd say the biggest surges were with NutriiVeda. We saw nothing for the

> first 2 weeks, then woke up one morning and it was like a light switch

> had been turned on. We've seen more improvements over time, as we've been on

> NV for about 6 months now. My husband is extremely skeptical of

> improvements. He always assumes they are natural development b/c is so

> young and has never wanted to credit a particular therapy with improvement

> (other than basic speech therapy). However, even he couldn't deny the sudden

> changes we saw with NV. It's not that they were drastic changes, but they

> were definite changes and things we'd never seen before. And, many all at

> once: eczema gone, constipation gone, attitude happy and manageable, even

> downright sweet (dare I say it!). His appetite was better and his language

> was GREATLY improved. We didn't see huge upticks in his articulation

> immediately, but it did seem to come with time. I'd say now, 6 months later,

> is probably 90%-95% understandable to strangers. For a 3 1/2 yr old,

> with or even without apraxia I'd say that's pretty good. I very rarely have

> to repeat his sentences to others so they can understand.

>

> I know you were considering increasing the NV dosage - have you tried that

> yet?

>

> Sharon

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > We started Madelyn (26 months) on one Omega 369 3 days ago. I haven't

> > > really noticed much of a difference yet, but her SLP noticed her making

> more

> > > attempts to repeat words this morning, she made the " p " sound for the

> first

> > > time and and even came close to a fishface. Hmmm, maybe there has been

> a

> > > difference after all. I haven't mentioned anything to her SLP about the

> > > oils. What should I be looking for?

> > > > Madelyn was largely silent before speech therapy began in May and is

> now

> > > a jargoning chatterbox, although has maybe 3 understandable words.

> > > >

> > > > Also, in line with the question about when to stop the

> supplementation in

> > > preparation for an evaluation, how does that work? If the SLP is

> documenting

> > > progress made, and the ability of the child, aren't there going to be

> > > discrepancies during the evaluation once the child is taken off? For

> > > example, our therapist needs to complete a progress report in 2 months

> for

> > > our transition meeting out of E.I. and into CPSE. Wouldn't she be

> checking

> > > off things that Madelyn can do, but wouldn't be able to do once off the

> fish

> > > oils? If she gets that surge we're hoping for, perhaps E.I. would

> decrease

> > > the 5x per week to 3x per week. Or, if it goes on to help with

> attention

> > > span and focus, wouldn't her special instructor note the gains, and

> perhaps

> > > not recommend therapy, even though she needs it. Or do the kids still

> show

> > > the same signs of apraxia and other issues just to a lesser extent? Do

> they

> > > regress back to before they had supplementation, or have a loss of some

> > > skills? I hope those questions make sense. We also have an appointment

> with

> > > a new neuro in the end of October, and I need to plan for that initial

> > > visit.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Malinda -I'll see if can answer this too but there is another

explanation if you are using the right dosage and getting enough hydration in as

those are really the two main things to watch. (for hydration -body weight

divided in half is about the amount of ounces of liquid a day see FAQ here

http://pursuitofresearch.org/faq.html )

While most of us it appears sees dramatic surges in multiple areas, raised

awareness to our group about her son (who she just posted about regarding the

preschool teacher saying her son was trying to leave the room prior to the class

being over and it " may " not be safe) and NV. She had noticed some subtle surges

like you, but in frustration from reading about all of the more dramatic surges

she stopped NV...and the subtle surges stopped and her son regressed. She and

her husband realized that any surge is better than no surge at all. I would

suggest you do the same and try stopping the NV for say this weekend. Sometimes

you have to note the lack of progress or see a regression to make you aware of

progress. It is possible there are things going on in other areas, or in the

body that you just don't note yet as it's only 2 weeks on NV? (which is when

Sharon first noted her surges -so again while most of us notice the dramatic

surges in a day to a few days it took her 2 weeks -but perhaps she just didn't

notice the subtle things prior? Sharon? There are always exceptions to the

rule was the point)

Also of course we all look for surges in speech, but there are quite a few

children who have surges in other areas first -particularly autistic children.

Please note all the areas of surges and see if you notice in any of the other

areas (see list below) Hope this helps!

Anecdotal reports of surges for those with autism, apraxia and other speech

impairments, ADHD, Traumatic Brain Injury, seizure disorders, epilepsy and

global delays in the following areas typically within just a few days on

NutriiVeda:

SPEECH articulation, complexity and sophistication of sentence structure

LANGUAGE better understanding of written and spoken word, development of

better reading and writing skills

ACADEMICS/LEARNING reported surges in all areas of school. For preschool

age sudden awareness of numbers, letters, even spelling

FINE AND GROSS MOTOR SKILLS improvements in various activities reported

including riding a bike, swimming to buttoning pants

POTTY TRAINING and bed wetting resolved for those of all ages who had issues

are reported

SENSE OF HUMOR both catching subtle humor/abstract humor, and wanting to

make others laugh-joking around

AWARENESS OF SURROUNDINGS (for autism) reported following gaze and more

interactions

FACIAL EXPRESSIONS more non-verbal communication, for oral apraxia more

expressions instead of blank stares when not engaged in conversation

FOCUS on task, more willing to listen and try

MULTI TASKING for those with motor planning impairments such as apraxia as

this is something typically not done or done well prior to NV

SOCIAL wanting to participate with others via play and communication

MOOD reported seems " happier " for a number

BEHAVIOR normalization reported in a few cases of those with severe

behavioral issues of head banging, butting, hitting, aggression and anger issues

MUSIC increased interest in listening to, humming or singing music

DEVELOPMENTAL CATCHING UP for those that never went through stages

-reportedly going through them for the first time.

DECREASE IN SEIZURES so far in several cases elimination of any seizures and

headaches and decrease and elimination in seizure meds as well

IMAGINATIVE PLAY increase in imaginative play and story telling

IMPROVED DIET willingness to try more foods for those that were " picky

eaters " prior

Within 1 month or more:

SENSORY improvement in sensory awareness for those affected with sensory

integration dysfunction

GROWTH reported dramatic surges in height as well as increase in muscle and

normalization in weight

REFLEXES normalization of reflexes for those who had poor reflexes

http://pursuitofresearch.org/pursuit.html

=====

[Guest guest]

Thanks ! He has been on the fish oils 10 weeks and the NV 8 weeks. I

upped the dose on the fish oils to what is recommded about 3 weeks ago and

started the heaping NV about 10 days ago. He is trying and I can get him to

say certain words when prompted with cards, but mostly, it is just EHH EHHH

EHH or EEES EEES EEES for everything!

What do you recommend I go armed with when I go to EI in November to write

up his " plan " when he turns 3? He is currently receiving speech therapy at

home 1x a week. (they proposed 2x a month and I got them to do 1x!) I

really feel he needs more intensive help and that is my primary goal. What

do I need to do to make sure it happens?

I still haven't been able to find a PROMPT therapist in the Salt Lake area.

I emailed everyone on the list from the PROMPT institute, but nobody seems

to have completed their certification... His current therapist is great

with him and willing to try my suggestions... I feel like he needs to learn

how to form his mouth and have cues to remember to do so to get the right

sounds out!

Thanks again for all your help... it is very hard to watch him want to

communicate with other kids... I can understand 80% of what he wants or is

trying to say if I know the context...otherwise, I am lost... His 4-year old

brother is starting to translate for me though!

Thanks

Malinda

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 5:23 PM, kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote:

>

>

> Hi Malinda -I'll see if can answer this too but there is another

> explanation if you are using the right dosage and getting enough hydration

> in as those are really the two main things to watch. (for hydration -body

> weight divided in half is about the amount of ounces of liquid a day see FAQ

> here http://pursuitofresearch.org/faq.html )

>

> While most of us it appears sees dramatic surges in multiple areas,

> raised awareness to our group about her son (who she just posted about

> regarding the preschool teacher saying her son was trying to leave the room

> prior to the class being over and it " may " not be safe) and NV. She had

> noticed some subtle surges like you, but in frustration from reading about

> all of the more dramatic surges she stopped NV...and the subtle surges

> stopped and her son regressed. She and her husband realized that any surge

> is better than no surge at all. I would suggest you do the same and try

> stopping the NV for say this weekend. Sometimes you have to note the lack of

> progress or see a regression to make you aware of progress. It is possible

> there are things going on in other areas, or in the body that you just don't

> note yet as it's only 2 weeks on NV? (which is when Sharon first noted her

> surges -so again while most of us notice the dramatic surges in a day to a

> few days it took her 2 weeks -but perhaps she just didn't notice the subtle

> things prior? Sharon? There are always exceptions to the rule was the point)

>

> Also of course we all look for surges in speech, but there are quite a few

> children who have surges in other areas first -particularly autistic

> children. Please note all the areas of surges and see if you notice in any

> of the other areas (see list below) Hope this helps!

>

> Anecdotal reports of surges for those with autism, apraxia and other speech

> impairments, ADHD, Traumatic Brain Injury, seizure disorders, epilepsy and

> global delays in the following areas typically within just a few days on

> NutriiVeda:

>

> SPEECH articulation, complexity and sophistication of sentence structure

> LANGUAGE better understanding of written and spoken word, development of

> better reading and writing skills

> ACADEMICS/LEARNING reported surges in all areas of school. For preschool

> age sudden awareness of numbers, letters, even spelling

> FINE AND GROSS MOTOR SKILLS improvements in various activities reported

> including riding a bike, swimming to buttoning pants

> POTTY TRAINING and bed wetting resolved for those of all ages who had

> issues are reported

> SENSE OF HUMOR both catching subtle humor/abstract humor, and wanting to

> make others laugh-joking around

> AWARENESS OF SURROUNDINGS (for autism) reported following gaze and more

> interactions

> FACIAL EXPRESSIONS more non-verbal communication, for oral apraxia more

> expressions instead of blank stares when not engaged in conversation

> FOCUS on task, more willing to listen and try

> MULTI TASKING for those with motor planning impairments such as apraxia as

> this is something typically not done or done well prior to NV

> SOCIAL wanting to participate with others via play and communication

> MOOD reported seems " happier " for a number

> BEHAVIOR normalization reported in a few cases of those with severe

> behavioral issues of head banging, butting, hitting, aggression and anger

> issues

> MUSIC increased interest in listening to, humming or singing music

> DEVELOPMENTAL CATCHING UP for those that never went through stages

> -reportedly going through them for the first time.

> DECREASE IN SEIZURES so far in several cases elimination of any seizures

> and headaches and decrease and elimination in seizure meds as well

> IMAGINATIVE PLAY increase in imaginative play and story telling

> IMPROVED DIET willingness to try more foods for those that were " picky

> eaters " prior

>

> Within 1 month or more:

> SENSORY improvement in sensory awareness for those affected with sensory

> integration dysfunction

> GROWTH reported dramatic surges in height as well as increase in muscle and

> normalization in weight

> REFLEXES normalization of reflexes for those who had poor reflexes

> http://pursuitofresearch.org/pursuit.html

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Hey /Malinda:

To answer your questions about if we saw subtle surges during the 2 weeks, I

can't say for sure, but I don't recall that we did. Really what I remember most

is that he was a total bear. He was the most awful I'd seen since we took him

off fish oils the one time I mentioned earlier in this note. We finally chalked

it up to him going through some sort of detox. He was defiant, whiney and threw

tantrums constantly. Even his speech/articulation worsened during that 2 weeks.

Then, he woke up an angel after the 2 week detox.

The 2 week period was not all at full dosage also. It took us several days to

ramp up to full dose, but even still we saw the negative behavior even on a full

dose for the first 1+ week. We too were getting close to ditching it, but I'm

glad we stuck with it. SO GLAD.

Sharon

>

> Hi Malinda -I'll see if can answer this too but there is another

explanation if you are using the right dosage and getting enough hydration in as

those are really the two main things to watch. (for hydration -body weight

divided in half is about the amount of ounces of liquid a day see FAQ here

http://pursuitofresearch.org/faq.html )

>

> While most of us it appears sees dramatic surges in multiple areas,

raised awareness to our group about her son (who she just posted about regarding

the preschool teacher saying her son was trying to leave the room prior to the

class being over and it " may " not be safe) and NV. She had noticed some subtle

surges like you, but in frustration from reading about all of the more dramatic

surges she stopped NV...and the subtle surges stopped and her son regressed.

She and her husband realized that any surge is better than no surge at all. I

would suggest you do the same and try stopping the NV for say this weekend.

Sometimes you have to note the lack of progress or see a regression to make you

aware of progress. It is possible there are things going on in other areas, or

in the body that you just don't note yet as it's only 2 weeks on NV? (which is

when Sharon first noted her surges -so again while most of us notice the

dramatic surges in a day to a few days it took her 2 weeks -but perhaps she just

didn't notice the subtle things prior? Sharon? There are always exceptions to

the rule was the point)

>

> Also of course we all look for surges in speech, but there are quite a few

children who have surges in other areas first -particularly autistic children.

Please note all the areas of surges and see if you notice in any of the other

areas (see list below) Hope this helps!

>

> Anecdotal reports of surges for those with autism, apraxia and other speech

impairments, ADHD, Traumatic Brain Injury, seizure disorders, epilepsy and

global delays in the following areas typically within just a few days on

NutriiVeda:

>

> SPEECH articulation, complexity and sophistication of sentence structure

> LANGUAGE better understanding of written and spoken word, development of

better reading and writing skills

> ACADEMICS/LEARNING reported surges in all areas of school. For preschool

age sudden awareness of numbers, letters, even spelling

> FINE AND GROSS MOTOR SKILLS improvements in various activities reported

including riding a bike, swimming to buttoning pants

> POTTY TRAINING and bed wetting resolved for those of all ages who had

issues are reported

> SENSE OF HUMOR both catching subtle humor/abstract humor, and wanting to

make others laugh-joking around

> AWARENESS OF SURROUNDINGS (for autism) reported following gaze and more

interactions

> FACIAL EXPRESSIONS more non-verbal communication, for oral apraxia more

expressions instead of blank stares when not engaged in conversation

> FOCUS on task, more willing to listen and try

> MULTI TASKING for those with motor planning impairments such as apraxia as

this is something typically not done or done well prior to NV

> SOCIAL wanting to participate with others via play and communication

> MOOD reported seems " happier " for a number

> BEHAVIOR normalization reported in a few cases of those with severe

behavioral issues of head banging, butting, hitting, aggression and anger issues

> MUSIC increased interest in listening to, humming or singing music

> DEVELOPMENTAL CATCHING UP for those that never went through stages

-reportedly going through them for the first time.

> DECREASE IN SEIZURES so far in several cases elimination of any seizures

and headaches and decrease and elimination in seizure meds as well

> IMAGINATIVE PLAY increase in imaginative play and story telling

> IMPROVED DIET willingness to try more foods for those that were " picky

eaters " prior

>

> Within 1 month or more:

> SENSORY improvement in sensory awareness for those affected with sensory

integration dysfunction

> GROWTH reported dramatic surges in height as well as increase in muscle

and normalization in weight

> REFLEXES normalization of reflexes for those who had poor reflexes

> http://pursuitofresearch.org/pursuit.html

>

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, I just wanted to give an update on my 10 yr. old daughter. I am so

happy for her. She is now in the 4th grade and they are required to give

" oral " reports. She has given 2 this week. In the past, she has had great

difficulty bringing her thoughts together and then saying them without sounding

choppy and hesitant. It was such a strain for her to express herself. Well,

she made " 100 " on both presentations. She was even able to show expression

and enjoyed talking and used harder words that she had been unable to

pronounce in the past. She said that she wants to be in a play now! I just

had to share this because we have been so blessed to be able to give her the

NV and fish oil. I believe that she is definitely well on the road to

recovery! Her brain has to be healing because there are so many changes going

on. Again, thank you.

Teri

[Guest guest]

Teri so you are seeing the same thing as me. I also so believe there is some

type of repair going on based on the changes in so many areas -Tanner -who

Tanner was and is now, it's like we went through a time machine and I am with

the older Tanner. It's still him -but he's, well a word I find myself using

more and more is " normalized " And honestly -in some areas above average.

How is your daughter with homework? I'm speaking in regards to the following

-Tanner is black and white from before with homework with me. Where before he

would seek me out to work on things like reading, writing reports, now...even if

I ask him " Tanner, anything at all you need help on I'm here for you " He

answers me " I'm doing it myself " He goes into his room with his computer and

all his books and just works and works (this school has lots of homework) and he

said to me " sometimes when I work for two hours on my homework I have to stop

and take a break to give myself a break " Honestly I know he has many

assignments but don't know if they are supposed to take hours- again he's

wanting to do all on his own. He showed me his one poem " If I Ruled The World "

and it was quite long -and he got 100 percent on it. Tanner doing a poem?

Without my help? Even not asking me to type it for him as I type so much

faster? Nope -he wants to do it all alone. So are you seeing this? May be

different because Tanner is 4 years older and a young teen too?

I also want to say thank you so much for your continued updates! So many it

seems once their child is surging on NV forget to come back here to update -and

there are new parents all the time. By the way -has your daughter also had the

increase in reflexes I wrote about in Tanner the other day? Just checking as

that seems to be something that came in later.

Here are two clips of your last updates for new people which can be found on our

testimonial page http://pursuitofresearch.org/testimonials.html

First one:

Improved grades and focus

I must be honest and say that I was cautious in purchasing the NutriiVeda for

my daughter, because the testimonies sounded almost too good to be true. Now, I

am happy to be able to add my testimony to the growing list of parents and say

that it has been an answer to prayer. We adopted our daughter from Ukraine when

she was 2 years old. She is now 10 years old and after many years of therapy,

she has been able to do well in school, but can't remember the material we have

studied once a test is over. She has struggled and we have spent most days going

over and over the same material just to keep up. Up until she started taking

the NutriiVeda, we studied continuously. She just couldn't grasp what I would

tell her and she was unable to understand the " why " questions or infer what a

passage was saying. Her teacher even commented that even though she made good

grades, it would be very difficult for her in the 4th grade. Well, that has all

changed now. The week before we started the NutriiVeda, the class started doing

fourth grade reading to prepare for the fourth grade. She made a 48, 56, and 66

on her reading grades. Instantly, after starting the NutriiVeda, her grades

changed to 100's and she " understood " what she was reading. She now has an " A "

in reading. In fact, without the excessive studying, her lowest grade in all

subjects this past 2 weeks has been a 94. Another great improvement has been in

her speech. She didn't start putting words together until she was almost 5 years

old. She put sentences together when she was 7 years old. She continues to take

speech therapy, but has had a problem with syntax. I can tell without a doubt

that her speech has improved with the NutriiVeda.

With so many positive things to report, I hesitate to even mention that it did

seem to cause her to be hyper and jumpy the first week. We didn't give up using

the NutriiVeda and now her disposition is back to normal.. She will now even

admit that her mind feels sharper and last night we only had to study for her

history test 30 minutes rather than days. This morning, I went over a few

questions for history and I could tell that she remembered everything we had

studied and it covered 40 pages. I am normally cautious when I read reports such

as mine, but I would like to encourage parents to just give this a chance. This

is the first time I have ever replied on a website. Please forgive my wordiness,

but I am just so excited. It is like all the hard work our daughter has done

over the years is now coming together in a wonderful way! THANK YOU LISA GENG

and MR. BILL FARLEY! Please keep up the good work!

Teri

next one:

I would like to give an update on our 10 year old daughter who has been on NV

for about 2-1/2 months. I previously reported that after starting NV, she had a

great surge academically, but as has said the surges continue. She has had

a problem wetting the bed at night. In fact, sometimes several times a night.

She never had a night without wetting the bed. About 3 weeks after staring the

NV, she quit wetting the bed. This has been so good for her. She was afraid to

spend the night with her friends. because she knew what would happen. Now,

there are no more accidents. Also, I had a big surprise when I took her to

swimming lessons Monday.. She has not been able to swim even though she has had

swimming lessons in the past. I figured that she would be put back with the

smaller children to try again. When they tested her for swimming, they asked

her if she could swim. She said no, so they said for her to show them what she

could do. You won't believe it, but she could swim. I couldn't believe my eyes.

She even surprised herself. Of course she still needs her lessons, but her

coordination is now working and she is breathing and staying above water. She

hasn't been able to ride her bike without training wheels and in fact has quit

riding it all together because she feels too big for training wheels. Now, she

might even be able to ride the bike. We will try that next. What wonderful

things are in store for our children! Again, THANK YOU LISA GENG for caring

about all of our children. Teri

http://pursuitofresearch.org/testimonials.html

=====

[Guest guest]

Wow! I just wanted to post an update. I know what a surge looks like now LOL. We

started one capsule of 369 one week ago, and it is like we have a different

child. Almost like a light has turned on. Madelyn is now making attempts to

repeat everything we say, and initiating interactions. I asked her what she was

wearing, and she replied, " Ba-pa " , and then turned to show me her backpack.. She

is more social and will walk away from me to say hi to someone else, or to

explore her environment. She is joking around with her siblings a lot more and

is much more playful. She is pointing things out and calling my attention to

something she sees or hears. Her squawky sounding " Maaaaaa " when she wants my

attention is music to this mom's ears. She is more aware of her surroundings and

notices and questions when someone leaves the room. My absolute favorite is when

I ask her, " Who's my sweet girl? " , and she replies, " Meeeeee " . Such a beautiful

sound!

We took her to the center where she will be receiving her special instruction

for a visit. The director said she didn't need the self contained classroom

because she had too many words (I guess partial words count) and understood

everything!!!!! Never thought I would have heard that. She will be in the

integrated class instead. What a difference a week makes.

I am so thankful to and the Cherab foundation for sharing all of their

research and knowledge. I have to admit though, that I am still a bit skeptical.

Part of me wonders if it is just a natural developmental explosion. I'm sure

once we take her off the oils for her next evaluation, we'll see a difference.

For now I am just enjoying every minute getting to know my daughter.

> >

> > We started Madelyn (26 months) on one Omega 369 3 days ago. I haven't really

noticed much of a difference yet, but her SLP noticed her making more attempts

to repeat words this morning, she made the " p " sound for the first time and and

even came close to a fishface. Hmmm, maybe there has been a difference after

all. I haven't mentioned anything to her SLP about the oils. What should I be

looking for?

> > Madelyn was largely silent before speech therapy began in May and is now a

jargoning chatterbox, although has maybe 3 understandable words.

> >

> > Also, in line with the question about when to stop the supplementation in

preparation for an evaluation, how does that work? If the SLP is documenting

progress made, and the ability of the child, aren't there going to be

discrepancies during the evaluation once the child is taken off? For example,

our therapist needs to complete a progress report in 2 months for our transition

meeting out of E.I. and into CPSE. Wouldn't she be checking off things that

Madelyn can do, but wouldn't be able to do once off the fish oils? If she gets

that surge we're hoping for, perhaps E.I. would decrease the 5x per week to 3x

per week. Or, if it goes on to help with attention span and focus, wouldn't her

special instructor note the gains, and perhaps not recommend therapy, even

though she needs it. Or do the kids still show the same signs of apraxia and

other issues just to a lesser extent? Do they regress back to before they had

supplementation, or have a loss of some skills? I hope those questions make

sense. We also have an appointment with a new neuro in the end of October, and I

need to plan for that initial visit.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi !

I just started Ava, my 27 month old daughter on fish oil as well. We can't

believe the difference in her speech! We are absolutely AMAZED something can

help this much. She's trying to put words together all the time. She now says

" bye bye Mama " , Dada, and others names with bye bye. There's so many more words

shes' trying to put together, and everything seems a bit more clear as well. I

tried giving her the NV in a shake and didn't have much luck. I'm hoping to

sneak it into some kind of food she will eat. If anyone has any great recipes

or ideas for the NV, please let me know! I'm willing to try anything!

Also, I currently have Ava on one ProEFA and half a ProEPA per day. Can I move

up to 2 ProEFA and 1 ProEPA per day? She's about 27 lbs.

Thanks!!

Meredith

> > >

> > > We started Madelyn (26 months) on one Omega 369 3 days ago. I haven't

really noticed much of a difference yet, but her SLP noticed her making more

attempts to repeat words this morning, she made the " p " sound for the first time

and and even came close to a fishface. Hmmm, maybe there has been a difference

after all. I haven't mentioned anything to her SLP about the oils. What should I

be looking for?

> > > Madelyn was largely silent before speech therapy began in May and is now a

jargoning chatterbox, although has maybe 3 understandable words.

> > >

> > > Also, in line with the question about when to stop the supplementation in

preparation for an evaluation, how does that work? If the SLP is documenting

progress made, and the ability of the child, aren't there going to be

discrepancies during the evaluation once the child is taken off? For example,

our therapist needs to complete a progress report in 2 months for our transition

meeting out of E.I. and into CPSE. Wouldn't she be checking off things that

Madelyn can do, but wouldn't be able to do once off the fish oils? If she gets

that surge we're hoping for, perhaps E.I. would decrease the 5x per week to 3x

per week. Or, if it goes on to help with attention span and focus, wouldn't her

special instructor note the gains, and perhaps not recommend therapy, even

though she needs it. Or do the kids still show the same signs of apraxia and

other issues just to a lesser extent? Do they regress back to before they had

supplementation, or have a loss of some skills? I hope those questions make

sense. We also have an appointment with a new neuro in the end of October, and I

need to plan for that initial visit.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > >

> >

>