Re: anestheisa?

[Guest guest]

Does anesthesia pose any addtl dangers if your child has dyspraxia?

[Guest guest]

Hi Debbie -I just put the word anesthesia into the archives and there are around

450 references in the archives, the main warning is against Nitrous Oxide which

you can search on PubMed as well. Below I have archives mainly to or from

members who's child needs anesthesia mainly for dental work. Below that I will

put info on how to search the archives...but best advice I found in the archives

is " The small risk of anesthesia was well worth the peace of mind "

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Hi Mom's, doctors, doctor moms, and others,

My Son has a MRI scheduled on Monday - he is just shy of 3 years. I am

really scared about the anesthesia - they won't use chyloral hydrate

at this hospital so he is getting some type of gas.

I am nervous because he has bit of a cold, stuffiness and I know this

increases the risk of the anesthesia. The nurse said to bring him in

and the anesthesiologist will make the call - but I don't know this

doctor - just whoever is there at the time.

I don't want to take any risks. Yet, my son is in pre-school so he

basically perpetually has a cold or is on the tail end of a cold or a

sniffly thing it seems. He needs the MRI because he's had an abnormal

eeg and I don't want to continue to wait (took over a month for this

appointment) -aaahhh!!

Anyone with any experience, words of wisdom, good thoughts for me?

Thanks, na Piccillo

Re: [ ] OT - MRI on Monday - freaking out about anesthesia

Hi, I hope I can help a little. My son will be 4 in March. He just had an

MRI done on February 7. They gave him an IV sedation. He was a little upset

with that, but once it was over he just sat on my husbands lap and relaxed

until it was time for the MRI. They then bought him in to the room where the

MRI was to be done. They then gave him the sedation medication. After the

MRI (which took about 35 minutes) we went with him up to recovery. It took

about a half hour for him to wake and drink something. ( they wouldn't let

him leave until he could drink something). He fell back asleep on the way

home (about 5:30PM) and slept until the next morning 6AM). After that he was

back to his normal self. I understand your concern for his cold. My son had

to have eye surgery back in December of 2000. He had come down with a cold

right before the surgery. I called the hospital to see if it would still be

okay to have the surgery and they told me to bring him in to see the

anesthesiologist. When he met with the anesthesiologist he said if it were

my child I would not put him under with this cold. So we canceled the

surgery for a later date when he was not sick. I think you should contact

the hospital and tell them what's going on. They might have you come in and

see your child like mine.

My sons MRI results did come back normal. What a relief. I wish you the

best with your child.

I hope I might have helped a little bit. I know what a hard time this is for

you.

Good luck with everything.

Re: OT - MRI on Monday - freaking out about anesthesia

Hi!

My son who is 20 yrs. has had many MRI's with a variety of

sedations. When my little one needed it, we were able to use chloral

hydrate, but the info they sent prior said that it was only used up

to age 2 years. When she had her last surgery for ear tubes, they

used gas and while the child fights the mask, it is faster for them

to go to sleep when they are yelling. They do come out of the gas

cranky!! And, because they are still so out of it, they are not

really able to respond to your verbal comforting. My daughter went

back to sleep after the firt hestaria spell and when she woke she was

much calmer and in about half an hour from then, she was drinking and

we were out of there.

I took her to her ped. the day before for her runny nose to get a

letter stating that she always had a runny nose and this one was the

usual type. Of course, the anesth. has the final call and while I

argue with everyone else, they do always have the best intrest of the

child in mind and especially in a non-emergency test.

They do have salf tanks for the MRI, now. But the one thing I always

do is just make a quick sweep of the things in the room and if

anything doesn't say MRI on it, ask if it should be there. Right

before my daughter's MRI was turned on, the technician came running

in to remove a garbage can that wasn't suppose to be there. You

should be able to sit in the room, if you want, and it will be cold

in the room. If you have a sweater or sweat shirt with out zippers

or snaps ( all of your clothes) you might need it. Also, credit

cards and anything with a

magnetic strip will be damaged. They usually give you good info. on

what to bring, but I have had times with out knowing.

I hope everything is " normal " and if it isn't, I hope that it at

least leads you to answers.

Gloria

~~~~~~~~~different topic but still archives

Hi-

I just read your question and called my dad who is an 85 year old retired

Dentist with DMD and DDS Degrees.... (Doctor of Dental Medicine and Doctor

of Dental Surgery). My dad has been retired for many years--- but I asked

his advice on this. (My dad is a totally " with it " older man-- he often

has great advice on medical matters).

He told me that he always referred young children to what is called a

" Pedodontist " .... someone who specializes in the treatment and anesthesia of

young kids. My dad said that any form of a " General Anesthetic " can be

dangerous for young children...... and it is better to use sedation that

promotes what is called a " twilight sleep " .... meaning that the child is

sedated, but not completely out.

My dad retired 20 years ago..... so things may have changed since then.....

he said that Pedodontists always started with a drug called Seconal- which

is a SHORT acting Barbituate..... this would relax the child-- often the

entire dental procedure could be completed with this. If the child was not

sedated enough, Chloral Hydrate was used as a secondary measure.

I asked about the B12 connection with Chloral Hydrate- my dad said that in

his day, he never heard of anything about that.... but he did say that a

Pedodontist may have new knowledge of this. My dad kept asking me to

provide him with more info about the level of your child's decay/problems.....

because the type and amount of decay will affect the time needed to repair the

issues. It was hard for him to give advice without knowing what the

issues were.

I am not online much-- but will try to help if I can. Can you give more

info about the dental issues?

Take care-

.... mom of a 3 year 2 month old son with Apraxia and Hypotonia....

our kids are close in age!

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Nitrous Oxide Anesthesia Implicated in Death of Child With MTHFR

Deficiency

By J. Brown, MD

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) Jul 02 - Nitrous oxide anesthesia

administered to a child born with an undiagnosed deficiency in a

key metabolic enzyme appears to have caused the child's death,

according to a report published in the July 3rd issue of The New

England Journal of Medicine.

The deficient enzyme, 5,10-methlyenetetrahydrofolate reductase

(MTHFR), is involved in the metabolism of folate and in the

production of methionine, which is needed for a variety of

important biochemical reactions, senior author Dr. Kirk Hogan,

from the University of Wisconsin in Madison, and colleagues

note.

In the current case, because of the enzyme deficiency, the child

probably had baseline methionine levels that, although low, were

survivable. Unfortunately, in this situation treatment with

nitrous oxide, an agent known to block methionine synthesis,

may have resulted in fatally low levels.

The case involved a male infant who appeared normal until 3 months of

age when he presented with a mass in the left leg. Excisional biopsy of the

lesion was performed under anesthesia that included nitrous oxide. The procedure

lasted 45 minutes and the pathology results indicated fibrosarcoma.

The child was taken back to the OR four days later for complete

resection of the mass. Once again, nitrous oxide-containing anesthesia

was administered, but this time the procedure lasted 270 minutes. Still, the

patient was discharged on postoperative day 7 in seemingly good health.

Seventeen days after discharge, the infant was admitted to the

hospital with seizures and apnea episodes. The patient was found to

be severely hypotonic and CT scan revealed generalized brain atrophy

with enlarged prepontine and medullary cisterns. In addition, plasma

methionine levels were low, while homocysteine levels were elevated-

-both findings consistent with a MTHFR deficiency.

Forty-six days after surgery, the infant died after respiratory arrest.

Postmortem examination showed extensive damage to the

central nervous system.

Although it was not known at the time of surgery, two of the child's

relatives had elevated homocysteine levels. However, none had ever

been treated with nitrous oxide.

The case was initially reported in 1987, but at that time the

technology was not available to test for MTHFR activity or for

mutations in the corresponding gene, Dr. W. Erbe, co-author

of a related editorial, told Reuters Health.

When Dr. Hogan's team went back and tested fibroblast samples from the

patient and his family, they found a novel MTHFR mutation associated

with severely decreased enzyme activity.

" I don't think these results should cause panic among the general

public, " Dr. Erbe, from the University at Buffalo, noted. " There were

clues in this particular case that suggested a problem before the

nitrous oxide was given, " he added.

Moreover, the MTHFR mutation in the current case appears to be

rather rare, Dr. Erbe said. " There is a MTHFR mutation that is present in up to

50% of the population, but there is no evidence that nitrous oxide is unsafe for

carriers of this mutation. "

However, in children with developmental delay or altered homocysteine

metabolism, methionine levels should be determined before using

nitrous oxide-containing anesthesia, he noted.

Carcinogenesis. 2003 Jun;24(6):1097-103. Epub 2003 Apr 24.

Folate status, metabolic genotype, and biomarkers of genotoxicity in

healthy subjects. http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021867

And...if someone with this has trouble with efficiently metabolizing folic acid

I would say it's again better to try to support the metabolic system by

whole foods- and try to consume more folic acid in the diet. And outside of NV

which has 200 mcg of folic acid from whole food per scoop

http://pursuitofresearch.org/ingredients.html you could increase consumption of

eggs, dark leafy vegetables, (spinach and broccoli) oranges and orange juice and

legumes (peas and dried beans)

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I'm not sure how much this has been touched on here. I've

taken part in a lot of groups over the past several years and

truthfully only recently started reading this group again.

If anyone has read my messages, I sometimes use a link to my son's story

on my signature line. If you've read his story you will know that he

was a child who regressed after anesthesia.

Friday I got a call from a local Mom who had been in contact with

another local Mom whose child had gone under anesthesia and had come

out a different child. I would be willing to bet money that one of the

agents used on this child was Nitrous Oxide.

Nitrous Oxide impacts the methylation cycle that seems to be so

impaired in our children. Sadly the medical community has not

acknowledged that there are contributing metabolic issues in our

children. Most of the anesthesiologists that I've talked to have been

totally unaware of this risk. There is at least one peer reviewed

journal article showing the risk to those with methionine deficiencies

of Nitrous: an article in the New England Journal of Medicine about a

child that died after 2 back to back surgeries. Because the child was

an infant, he had not yet reached the age where his developmental delays

would be recognized. Heck, at 3 1/2 our son's issues had not yet been

acknowledged by our ped. I'm hoping that one day before a child

undergoes surgery they will check for genetic mutations in this cycle

and for B12 and methionine levels.

Until then, my advice to any parent whose child has to undergo a dental

procedure or surgery is to tell the anesthesiologist that there is a

metabolic problem in the family that contraindicates Nitrous Oxide

use. We did this with our youngest child when she had tubes placed.

(Unfortunately we didn't think to ask for " thimerosal free " ear drops).

If the local Mom whose child regressed recently had access to a

physician willing to Rx methyl-B12 injections she might have a shot at

preventing more permanent damage. Unfortunately in our area, they are

only willing to prescribe Ritalin and Risperdal. After all, a few

years ago (and probably still today), I was just a " crazy " Mom who

thought her child changed after a medical procedure.

Vicki

Mason's Story: http://www.lymeinducedautism.com

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How to search the archives

Go to

You'll find the search right above where the messages start to the right of the

page -or click on the tab for messages and it will be on the top of the page to

the left. You can also put " advanced " and search by date etc. But you don't

have to.

Put the word anesthesia into the search (use spell check because if not spelled

correctly you may not get any results unless someone else spelled it wrong in

the exact way you did)

And after all that- if your child needs surgery I would believe that any risk of

anesthesia will be outweighed by the lack of surgery. Nobody would schedule

surgery that wasn't necessary for a child right? I have not heard of any

specific damage to a child with dyspraxia with anesthesia- but if you read

around you can look into the type of anesthesia used and who performs it.

Prayers to you and your family for a smooth surgery and speedy recovery!

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