Re: heavey metal detox--Liralen

[Guest guest]

Liralen--I get your point about science changing--yes it does all the

time--good/useful research that is carried out in a methodologically sound way

always requires more research---we're never done understanding. I won't get

into the HBOT anymore--it's not the purpose of this list--as far as I am

concerned it was just a heads up for anybody who wants to research more---

---but since I have explained a little bit about chealtion and you mentioned

you'd like to try some herbal chelator at some point------please be very careful

with anything that might be described as " agentle herbal chelator of heavy

metals " or anything that claims to act on heavy metals in any way. Heavy metals

are a different kind of toxin--takes a double thiol to remove them safely and to

avoid redistribution and possible damage as a result---it needs to be

administered several days in a row--very low dose and only ONLY according to the

half life of the chelating agent---DMSA and ALA are the only ones for which--the

much needed half life is known. The half life of herbal chealtors is NOT known.

Which means they cannot be safely administered in metal toxic people--and there

is no way to accurately assess the heavy metal toxic load of any patient---if

neurological problems, delays, learning disorders exist--as well as metabolic

problems and possible

autoimmune/endocrine issues--if there is also some obvious history of exposure

(amalgam fillings --especially inappropriately removed--medications vaccines

etc)---you are most likely dealing with stored metals in body tissue and brain

and impaired detoxification pathways and metabolic processing etc etc. Simply

fixinf g the detox pathways the way we normally address detoxification does NOT

in thsi case get the metals out---our bodies were never EVER meant to do

this--chemically it cannot happen--a double thiol bond is needed for the metals

to come out----safely--and not get redistributed. I cannot emphasize this

enough.

Getting the metals out should be a very informed and concentrated effort--not a

pass time activity---heavy metals are NOT like other toxins--the body cannot

detoxify what is stored in tissues on its own--no matter how much you boost the

detox pathways--a double bond thiol is needed for most metals--aluminum is a

possible exception--but mercury and lead which are the most common need that

double thiol bond to be safely and securely removed from the body--and the body

cannot handle too much coming out at once--that is when most of the negative

symptoms associated with chealtion can happen.

Anyway--it is beyond the purpose of this list to discuss the details of safe

chelation--but please e-mail me if you want to learn more and please PLEASE do

not just try herbal chelators----they are not safe and alternative practitioners

shoudl NOT be administering them to patients suspected of having heavy metal

toxicity--and lately ----given our ubiquitous exposure--who doesn't have heavy

metals stored in their tissues?

Basically the science behind heavy metal detox has not changed--no matter how

many products come out that claim to chelate metals--this is NOT regualted--and

for better or for worse--anybody can make any claims they want----OSR for

example is about to be approved if it hasn't already--not as a chealtor which it

definitely is--but as an antioxidant. and thsi can be tragic for those who are

metal toxic and take it once a day as an antioxidant. Plus the half life of this

new chelating agent is not known--and so far no research is being done toward

that end--becuase it is not being approved by FDA as a chealtor but as an

antioxidant and if it was marketed as a chealtor --it would most likely not get

approved--at least not at thsi point in time--even if the half life was by that

point known--but such research is very difficult to conduct--not too many human

volunteers here to experiment with safely removing metals from their bodies when

the half life is

unknown--and doing such research I am sure has a lot of ethical boundaries and

extrapolating from animals to humans is not a very good idea--being off by an

hour here can make a huge difference in terms of safety.

So precise timing and that double bind thiol are critical--and no one can prove

otherwise though many DANs do different protocols or modify them to better suit

the " comfort " of the patients--like DMSA suppositories administered every other

day, or ALA administered once a day as an antioxidant, there's also OSR--a new

chealtor being marketed as an antioxidant for daily administration--which all

chelating agents are BTW--but in metal toxic people this can backfire--and it

doesn't have to happen right away---it can be taken for even prolonged periods

of time without any observable ill effects--but they are nevertheless

potentially dangerous --in metal toxic people if NOT used according to their

half life--which is 3 h for ALA and 4 h for DMSA. So thsi is what gives heavy

metal chealtion such a bad reputation--the fact that it is most often done

inappropriately--and there are no current incentives to change that--other than

the injured children--but since

when has that really mattered. Mainstream medicien would not touch chealtion

with a 10 foot pole anyway--and of course they would also have to answer the

question where all the metals are coming from and they would have some black

points on that for sure in their own medical practices--so it's just not a very

PC research topic or treated in mainstream clinical practice. You're more

likely to get a brain transplant than be recommended chealtion--and yes I am

being sarcastic.

I Repeat---it is NOT the chealting agents themselves that are dangerous--it is

the metals that shoudl not come out too much-- too fast--the body may not handle

it and redistribution is always possible with all the risks that entails--it's

like being poisoned all over again--only fast--so it can be much worse. It's

all about how risky you want to get--and with our children we should avoid all

possible risks. I know it is hard for some to understand this but most DANs

are prone to the latest chealting fads that presented at their conferences--and

DO NOT know the science behind chealtion. They simply do not--or they woudl not

be recommending the treatments theya re and thsi also applied to my own DAN--but

she is open minded enough to work with patients on their own terms--particularly

since what I was proposing was more conservative and safer---she saw no reason

not to do it this way. But many other DANs I know of have egoes and they do not

allow

parents as much input and do not keep an open mind or are willign to listen to

other perspectives on this. Again, no one ahs to agree with all of it--it is

just a matter of doing what is safest and best for the child--and the parents

alone shoudl make that decision after they have understood all their options and

various perspectives. It's just not something to rush into and it's no place

for BIG egos--avoid doctors who are like that-they are not doing the best they

can for your child if they are not willing to listen and work with parents on

protocols that are if anything safer---not more risky--so if they follow the

science--and since they can't present it for their alternative--they shoudl not

have problems working with the parents doing the protocol that has been proven

safe and effective--and if they've not even heard about it--that's a definite

red flag there--they shoudl know and research all the options when it comes to

chealtion--this is not

a runny nose we're talking about here.

I hope this helps anyone considering heavy metals detoxification---it really

should NOT be something anybody jumps into---just because it seems like a good

idea and the chealting herbs marketed for this purpose don't sound like they can

do much harm. They can in metal toxic individuals----Again---it is not the

chelating agents per se--- the metals that can do harm--if the patient indeed

has them and they are not pulled out slowly and safely.

All the best,

Elena

________________________________

From: liralendoncov <liralendoncov@...>

Sent: Wed, March 3, 2010 7:41:44 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: HBOT

I find this interesting. Some scientists think that the atmosphere was heavier,

the oxygen more concentrated thousands of years ago and as time goes on it

becomes less so. And we all have more problems b/c of it.

I'm not too educated on chelation. Are there natural Chelators? The idea of

cleaning out my inners and that of my son is appealing. On the other hand, I am

a bit leery of it b/c it is so new and untested. If my son had Autism, I would

look into it for sure, but being as he's just delayed. Well, it's not needed.

But I would like to be eating foods and herbs and such that encourage the body's

cleansing of metals

Liralen

>

> We did HBOT during Chelation. Here is what I mean 2-3 times a week we did HBOT

and once in 14 days we did the chelation. When you are pulling the metals out,

yeast and bugs tends to dominate HBOT helps in bringing down the yeast and

bugs. People here do their second set of HBOT 20 sessions) after Chelation to

take care of the milder issues.

>

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