Re: school services question

[Guest guest]

That's odd. My son is 4 as well, and when he started he had only a handful of

words and several signs. Both his teachers and SLP at the school continued the

signs, and added prompts to help produce beginning sounds, until he could say

the word. For example, for " more " , he could sign, then they would get him to do

the " m " with it, then " mo " and " more " with it, and then once he had it mastered

they would respond when he said, or attempted to say it. We used signs a lot,

with both the private and public school SLPs support. We started when he was

younger, and he doesn't use them anymore, but it was a real life saver when he

wasn't verbal. I would suggest they either get her an instructor, or if you're

lucky like we were, our SLPs knew ASL and we developed a functional list that

would help him communicate his needs/wants (more, drink, eat, play, sleep,

etc..). You can't get what you don't ask for.

From: morepooh@...

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:28:18 +0000

Subject: [ ] school services question

Hi everyone. My daughter's annual IEP review is coming up and I have a question

that maybe some of you could help with.

H is 4 and currently attending our district's preschool for kids with various

disabilities. She has global delays, but her main problem is speech. She has a

severe expressive delay. (apraxia probably due to seizures) Receptively, I think

she is ok but probably held back quite a bit because of the expressive issues.

She's got about 60 single words right now, and can do some 2-3 word combos but

that is very limited. Many of her words are not clear and some she can say one

day and not the next. Often she'll need prompting with at least the initial

sound, and even words she knows well, like Mommy and Daddy, she sometimes has to

" reach " for. She's doing great at repeating sounds and is worlds beyond where

she was at this time last year. However, at this point I think it is time to

look at giving her some other form of communication. I know she has more to say

and not being able to express it is frustrating for her as well as us. Signing

is my first choice, because it's an actual language so even if she miraculously

starts speaking in clear sentences the day after she learns it, she is learning

a language that she can use the rest of her life. Of course I want to weigh all

our options but I keep coming back to signing.

This is where my question comes in... When she started in her preschool class a

little over a year ago, her speech therapist made it clear that she felt sign

language would only hold H back and prevent her from trying to talk. H went in

knowing some basic signs from Signing Time, but early on the ST instructed

anyone who worked with H to not respond unless she attempted to make a sound as

well as a sign. This upset me initially, but I decided to give the ST the

benefit of the doubt (since she's been doing this a while and knows more than I

do) Now as our IEP meeting approaches, I know things need to change and I am not

sure the ST will agree with me, especially given the progress H has made over

the past year. So, I am trying to figure out what I can require of the school. I

would like to actively teach H (and our family) sign language so she can finally

communicate beyond the basics. Is this something I will have to do on my own, or

can I request that the school get her a sign language instructor? I know they

are legally obligated to provide whatever H needs for her education, but being

that H has no hearing issues, this may be something that they won't see as a

necessity.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

_________________________________________________________________

Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.

http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

I still cant understand or fathom why there are still SLP's out there that think

sign language will inhibit speech! My daughter dropped every sign as soon as she

was able to speak the word for it! It was our EI SLP who suggested we begin

signing with her at 1yr old--she could already see her future Apraxia dx, which

came at 4yrs old. The signing saved lots and lots of frustrating conversations!

What the special needs prek told us is they wont teach her more sign, but they

wont ignore her either! Their goal was to teach her to speak. We were told the

same when she went into K. The prek teacher started using Picture system. I've

heard from many that most school districts would only provide ASL teachers for

deaf children--so not sure about that one..which I understand since they want

our kids to talk. We never took any lessons and my daughter, my oldest son and

my husband knew at least a thousand signs just picking things up on our own.

Good luck with your meeting. You can take signing classes on your own and there

are many websites and books out there. If they expect your daughter to talk--you

may not need many lessons! My daughters speech tripled in Kindergarten with her

SD SLP that used Prompt, Kaufman and whatever else worked! It was during her K

year that she finally started with two-word sentences! It was amazing! She's 8.5

yrs old now and rambling on all day now!

maureen

>

> Hi everyone. My daughter's annual IEP review is coming up and I have a

question that maybe some of you could help with.

>

Signing is my first choice, because it's an actual language so even if she

miraculously starts speaking in clear sentences the day after she learns it, she

is learning a language that she can use the rest of her life. Of course I want

to weigh all our options but I keep coming back to signing.

>

> This is where my question comes in... When she started in her preschool class

a little over a year ago, her speech therapist made it clear that she felt sign

language would only hold H back and prevent her from trying to talk. H went in

knowing some basic signs from Signing Time, but early on the ST instructed

anyone who worked with H to not respond unless she attempted to make a sound as

well as a sign. This upset me initially, but I decided to give the ST the

benefit of the doubt (since she's been doing this a while and knows more than I

do) Now as our IEP meeting approaches, I know things need to change and I am

not sure the ST will agree with me, especially given the progress H has made

over the past year. So, I am trying to figure out what I can require of the

school. I would like to actively teach H (and our family) sign language so she

can finally communicate beyond the basics. Is this something I will have to do

on my own, or can I request that the school get her a sign language instructor?

I know they are legally obligated to provide whatever H needs for her education,

but being that H has no hearing issues, this may be something that they won't

see as a necessity.

>

> Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

>

> Thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

Forgot one part I've been told over the past seven years. Yes, ASL IS a language

but the reason why the prek and K teachers would not teach her more but

understood her sign is because they are different than the rest of society that

our kids might run into! So while the signing reduced or eliminated her

frustration at home, I still needed to interpret for her anywhere outside our

home or school. Her abiltiy to sign surely impressed the other parents and kids

at the park and at the mall, because it changed their impression of her that she

was " not so smart " . So the fact that she was communicating impressed them, but

they still had to look to me for what she actually said! It took away from the

fact that she was not speaking..but she can say a lot more when actually

speaking now. She has retained all of her signs, and if she gets frustrated with

ME now, she will go back to using her most basic signs to get me to understand,

but its still just her closest family that she can use them with.

- In , " njmomto6 " <morepooh@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi everyone. My daughter's annual IEP review is coming up and I have a

question that maybe some of you could help with.

> >

> Signing is my first choice, because it's an actual language so even if she

miraculously starts speaking in clear sentences the day after she learns it, she

is learning a language that she can use the rest of her life.

[Guest guest]

Thank you both for taking the time to answer. What I am looking for is more

than just helping her express basic needs. Those she is very capable of getting

across using the words she does have along with signs/gestures. At home she

still uses the signs she does know to get her point across when it's something

she can't say. I don't know how much she uses them at school. What we need now

is to give her some way to really communicate. When she comes home from school

upset or happy I want her to be able to tell me why. What happened during her

day etc... I just don't see this happening for her anytime soon without sign or

some other form of augmentative communication. I don't want to sound like I'm

giving up on her because I am not. I just don't think it's fair to keep her

locked in to her extremely limited vocabulary/verbal ability if there are other

options. How long do we wait and see? Maybe by next year or the year after

she'll be speaking in full sentences, but what if she isn't? At 4, she should

be able to tell stories and jokes and sing songs. I know I have to adjust my

expectations according to her abilities and I guess that is something I struggle

with. But, if it is within my power to give her a way to really express herself

now, I want to do that for her. The ST's answer, when I asked for ideas on

helping H communicate better, was to give her 2 choices when I can't figure out

what she's trying to tell me. Her thought is that even if neither of my guesses

are accurate, H is still getting the chance to tell me something. Huh? I make

up something that may or may not match what she's trying to say, and this is

supposed to satisfy her? I didn't even know how to respond to this suggestion.

That is essentially what I do,but it's frustrating for both of us to have to to

play a guessing game every time she has something to say that is beyond her

verbal abilities.

I don't know, maybe I am expecting too much. She's come so far and I am so

proud of her, I just want so much more for her. :-/

> >

> > Hi everyone. My daughter's annual IEP review is coming up and I have a

question that maybe some of you could help with.

> >

> Signing is my first choice, because it's an actual language so even if she

miraculously starts speaking in clear sentences the day after she learns it, she

is learning a language that she can use the rest of her life. Of course I want

to weigh all our options but I keep coming back to signing.

> >

> > This is where my question comes in... When she started in her preschool

class a little over a year ago, her speech therapist made it clear that she felt

sign language would only hold H back and prevent her from trying to talk. H

went in knowing some basic signs from Signing Time, but early on the ST

instructed anyone who worked with H to not respond unless she attempted to make

a sound as well as a sign. This upset me initially, but I decided to give the

ST the benefit of the doubt (since she's been doing this a while and knows more

than I do) Now as our IEP meeting approaches, I know things need to change and

I am not sure the ST will agree with me, especially given the progress H has

made over the past year. So, I am trying to figure out what I can require of

the school. I would like to actively teach H (and our family) sign language so

she can finally communicate beyond the basics. Is this something I will have to

do on my own, or can I request that the school get her a sign language

instructor? I know they are legally obligated to provide whatever H needs for

her education, but being that H has no hearing issues, this may be something

that they won't see as a necessity.

> >

> > Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

> >

> > Thanks!

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My 8yr old daughter was dx at 4yrs old by the most wonderful Ped Neurologist

she'd had in her life and even up till now! I'm so sorry he moved away! What he

told us was to give her some additional forms of communicatoin before she loses

the smarts she has! he wrote the most amazing recommendation to the school

district. She had an eval(my school district has its own AAC dept) within a

couple weeks and a device within another month. It was for use at school but we

got the same device loaned to us for home use by our local rehab hospital. The

same rehab hospital helped us purchase a device for her a year later. Most

Apraxic kids have many forms of communication to get their point across. It

sounds like your daughter is ready for a device of some kind. There are so many

compact devices like Iphone out there now than there were even four years ago

when my daughter got her device. I even heard of a school district that bought

10 ITouch for their AAC dept because at $200 each--they're cheaper than the

$8000 devices that they had to buy for my daughter.

>

> Thanks, for taking the time to answer . What I am looking for is more

than just helping her express basic needs. Those she is very capable of getting

across using the words she does have along with signs/gestures. At home she

still uses the signs she does know to get her point across when it's something

she can't say. I don't know how much she uses them at school. What we need now

is to give her some way to really communicate. When she comes home from school

upset or happy I want her to be able to tell me why. What happened during her

day etc... I just don't see this happening for her anytime soon without sign or

some other form of augmentative communication. I don't want to sound like I'm

giving up on her because I am not. I just don't think it's fair to keep her

locked in to her extremely limited vocabulary/verbal ability. At 4, she should

be able to tell stories and jokes and sing songs. I know I have to adjust my

expectations according to her abilities. I am just looking to give her the

tools to help her really express her self now, rather than waiting who knows how

long for her to be able to verbalize it. The ST's answer when I asked for

ideas on helping H communicate better, was to give her 2 choices when I can't

figure out what she's trying to tell me. Her thought is that even if neither of

my guesses are accurate, H is still getting the chance to tell me something.

Huh? She's trying to tell me something, I make up something that may or may not

match what she's trying to say, and this is supposed to satisfy her? I didn't

even know how to respond to this suggestion. That is essentially what I do, but

I can only imagine how frustrating it would be to have to play a guessing game

every time I wanted to say something. I do know that H is becoming increasingly

frustrated when I can't figure it out. I don't know, maybe I am expecting too

much. She's come so far and I am so proud of her, I just want so much more for

her. :-/

>

>

>

>

>

> [ ] school services question

>

> Hi everyone. My daughter's annual IEP review is coming up and I have a

question that maybe some of you could help with.

>

> H is 4 and currently attending our district's preschool for kids with various

disabilities. She has global delays, but her main problem is speech. She has a

severe expressive delay. (apraxia probably due to seizures) Receptively, I think

she is ok but probably held back quite a bit because of the expressive issues.

She's got about 60 single words right now, and can do some 2-3 word combos but

that is very limited. Many of her words are not clear and some she can say one

day and not the next. Often she'll need prompting with at least the initial

sound, and even words she knows well, like Mommy and Daddy, she sometimes has to

" reach " for. She's doing great at repeating sounds and is worlds beyond where

she was at this time last year. However, at this point I think it is time to

look at giving her some other form of communication. I know she has more to say

and not being able to express it is frustrating for her as well as us. Signing

is my first choice, because it's a n actual language so even if she miraculously

starts speaking in clear sentences the day after she learns it, she is learning

a language that she can use the rest of her life. Of course I want to weigh all

our options but I keep coming back to signing.

>

> This is where my question comes in... When she started in her preschool class

a little over a year ago, her speech therapist made it clear that she felt sign

language would only hold H back and prevent her from trying to talk. H went in

knowing some basic signs from Signing Time, but early on the ST instructed

anyone who worked with H to not respond unless she attempted to make a sound as

well as a sign. This upset me initially, but I decided to give the ST the

benefit of the doubt (since she's been doing this a while and knows more than I

do) Now as our IEP meeting approaches, I know things need to change and I am not

sure the ST will agree with me, especially given the progress H has made over

the past year. So, I am trying to figure out what I can require of the school. I

would like to actively teach H (and our family) sign language so she can finally

communicate beyond the basics. Is this something I will have to do on my own, or

can I request that the school get her a si gn language instructor? I know they

are legally obligated to provide whatever H needs for her education, but being

that H has no hearing issues, this may be something that they won't see as a

necessity.

>

> Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

>

> Thanks!

>

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.

> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Somehow I accidentally deleted my last post. Just sticking it back up....

Thanks, for taking the time to answer . What I am looking for is more

than just helping her express basic needs. Those she is very capable of getting

across using the words she does have along with signs/gestures. At home she

still uses the signs she does know to get her point across when it's something

she can't say. I don't know how much she uses them at school. What we need now

is to give her some way to really communicate. When she comes home from school

upset or happy I want her to be able to tell me why. What happened during her

day etc... I just don't see this happening for her anytime soon without sign or

some other form of augmentative communication. I don't want to sound like I'm

giving up on her because I am not. I just don't think it's fair to keep her

locked in to her extremely limited vocabulary/verbal ability. At 4, she should

be able to tell stories and jokes and sing songs. I know I have to adjust my

expectations according to her abili ties. I am just looking to give her the

tools to help her really express her self now, rather than waiting who knows how

long for her to be able to verbalize it. The ST's answer when I asked for ideas

on helping H communicate better, was to give her 2 choices when I can't figure

out what she's trying to tell me. Her thought is that even if neither of my

guesses are accurate, H is still getting the chance to tell me something. Huh?

She's trying to tell me something, I make up something that may or may not match

what she's trying to say, and this is supposed to satisfy her? I didn't even

know how to respond to this suggestion. That is essentially what I do, but I can

only imagine how frustrating it would be to have to play a guessing game every

time I wanted to say something. I do know that H is becoming increasingly

frustrated when I can't figure it out. I don't know, maybe I am expecting too

much. She's come so far and I am so proud of her, I just want so much mor e for

her. :-/

[Guest guest]

I could definitely ask for a letter from our ped neurologist. He mentioned

total communication several times so I know he is on the same page. I wasn't

sure how much the school would pay attention to that.

I have thought about a device, but she's had a little experience with a very

basic one and doesn't have a lot of interest in it. I think she may warm up to

it but I don't know if I can push for it yet. I do plan to ask though. I

didn't know about the Itouch- I will have to google that.

Thanks to all of you for your input!

> >

> > Thanks, for taking the time to answer . What I am looking for is

more than just helping her express basic needs. Those she is very capable of

getting across using the words she does have along with signs/gestures. At home

she still uses the signs she does know to get her point across when it's

something she can't say. I don't know how much she uses them at school. What

we need now is to give her some way to really communicate. When she comes home

from school upset or happy I want her to be able to tell me why. What happened

during her day etc... I just don't see this happening for her anytime soon

without sign or some other form of augmentative communication. I don't want to

sound like I'm giving up on her because I am not. I just don't think it's fair

to keep her locked in to her extremely limited vocabulary/verbal ability. At 4,

she should be able to tell stories and jokes and sing songs. I know I have to

adjust my expectations according to her abilities. I am just looking to give

her the tools to help her really express her self now, rather than waiting who

knows how long for her to be able to verbalize it. The ST's answer when I

asked for ideas on helping H communicate better, was to give her 2 choices when

I can't figure out what she's trying to tell me. Her thought is that even if

neither of my guesses are accurate, H is still getting the chance to tell me

something. Huh? She's trying to tell me something, I make up something that

may or may not match what she's trying to say, and this is supposed to satisfy

her? I didn't even know how to respond to this suggestion. That is essentially

what I do, but I can only imagine how frustrating it would be to have to play a

guessing game every time I wanted to say something. I do know that H is

becoming increasingly frustrated when I can't figure it out. I don't know,

maybe I am expecting too much. She's come so far and I am so proud of her, I

just want so much more for her. :-/

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [ ] school services question

> >

> > Hi everyone. My daughter's annual IEP review is coming up and I have a

question that maybe some of you could help with.

> >

> > H is 4 and currently attending our district's preschool for kids with

various disabilities. She has global delays, but her main problem is speech. She

has a severe expressive delay. (apraxia probably due to seizures) Receptively, I

think she is ok but probably held back quite a bit because of the expressive

issues. She's got about 60 single words right now, and can do some 2-3 word

combos but that is very limited. Many of her words are not clear and some she

can say one day and not the next. Often she'll need prompting with at least the

initial sound, and even words she knows well, like Mommy and Daddy, she

sometimes has to " reach " for. She's doing great at repeating sounds and is

worlds beyond where she was at this time last year. However, at this point I

think it is time to look at giving her some other form of communication. I know

she has more to say and not being able to express it is frustrating for her as

well as us. Signing is my first choice, because it's a n actual language so even

if she miraculously starts speaking in clear sentences the day after she learns

it, she is learning a language that she can use the rest of her life. Of course

I want to weigh all our options but I keep coming back to signing.

> >

> > This is where my question comes in... When she started in her preschool

class a little over a year ago, her speech therapist made it clear that she felt

sign language would only hold H back and prevent her from trying to talk. H went

in knowing some basic signs from Signing Time, but early on the ST instructed

anyone who worked with H to not respond unless she attempted to make a sound as

well as a sign. This upset me initially, but I decided to give the ST the

benefit of the doubt (since she's been doing this a while and knows more than I

do) Now as our IEP meeting approaches, I know things need to change and I am not

sure the ST will agree with me, especially given the progress H has made over

the past year. So, I am trying to figure out what I can require of the school. I

would like to actively teach H (and our family) sign language so she can finally

communicate beyond the basics. Is this something I will have to do on my own, or

can I request that the school get her a si gn language instructor? I know they

are legally obligated to provide whatever H needs for her education, but being

that H has no hearing issues, this may be something that they won't see as a

necessity.

> >

> > Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

> >

> > Thanks!

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________________

> > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.

> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/210850553/direct/01/

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I am jumping in on this and hope it's helpful for you. I do have other archives

to show the importance of augmentative communication for your child -let me know

if you'd like me to post for things other than the importance of sign. I'm with

Maureen on the sign aspect...I don't know many apraxic children that didn't sign

who dropped the sign the minute they were able to speak- same for any

augmentative device. Face it -speaking is that much easier!

From The Late Talker book St 's Press 2003

THE CASE FOR SIGN LANGUAGE

There has been considerable debate over the merits of teaching sign

language to non-verbal children. Some parents believe that it takes

away from the primary goal of getting their child to become vocal.

Their fear is that the child will become dependent on sign language

and unmotivated to acquire speech. Most speech experts are totally

in favor of the introduction of signing as early as possible because

it helps build vocabulary, reduces frustration, and expands

expressive language. Research indicates that signing is a stepping-

stone—albeit a very important one—on the way to speech. As the

child's ability to vocalize increases, signing falls by the wayside.

The signs are not an alternative to speech, but a method of helping

the child discover speech.

Sign language can be simple or complex. Most late-talking children

develop their own sign language, which is understood by their

immediate family, and which should be encouraged so they develop

enough key signs to make their basic needs known. Carnell

told us that when her son was two-and-a-half-years-old, and

still only saying one or two words, he and his parents learned how

to sign. " He picked it up very fast and his demeanor quickly

changed. Now that he had a way to communicate he was becoming a

happy, carefree child, " she remembers. " I cried the night I walked

into his room and saw him signing in his sleep. " Beyond late talkers

there is even a growing movement to teach sign language or " symbolic

gesturing " to all babies, so they can communicate at an earlier age

than has been considered the norm.

PICTURE EXCHANGE COMMUNICATION SYSTEM (PECS)

Another non-verbal mode of communication is picture exchange in

which illustrations are used instead of words. All the child has to

do is point at a picture icon to make himself understood. At its

most simple, you put together a book of picture symbols for your

child to carry with him. You let him decide the contents. One page

can be for breakfast items, another page for lunch, one for dinner,

one for drinks and desserts, and so forth. You can have pages of

faces showing different feelings, and pages for activities such as

reading a book, going to the park or the library, visiting

relatives, friends or the doctor, and going to the bathroom!

There are many places to find pictures. Online grocery stores like

www.netgrocer.com are ideal for food items, as are the Sunday

newspaper's coupon section and magazines. You can take photos, or

purchase picture cards from a number of sources. If you wish,

laminate the pictures to protect and strengthen them; glue food and

drink choices onto self-adhesive magnets and attach to your

refrigerator. But there's more to PECS than having a picture for a

glass of orange juice. It begins with the basic lesson that to get a

favorite item the child needs to hand over a picture of that item.

The child is then taught to create simple " sentences " such as, " I

want cookie. " From there, he learns to add clarity by using

attributes such as big/little, shape, position, and color. He also

discovers how to respond to simple questions, such as, " What do you

want? " before learning how to use the pictures to comment about

things around him: " I see a train! " " I hear a bird! " Many parents

(and some professionals) share the same concern expressed about sign

language; namely, that using a picture system inhibits speech

development. But there is no evidence of a negative outcome while

there is compelling support for the proposition that PECS encourages

speech.

From The Late Talker roughs

THE CASE FOR SIGN LANGUAGE

To sign or not to sign? There has been considerable debate by some

parents over the merits of teaching sign language to their nonverbal

children. Some parents believe that it takes away from the primary

goal of getting the child to become vocal. Their fear is that the

child will become dependent on sign language and therefore not be

motivated to acquire speech. Most speech experts are totally in

favor of the introduction of signing, and as early as possible. All

of the best research indicates that signing is but a stepping-stone—

albeit a very important one—on the way to speech. As the child's

ability to vocalize increases, signing falls by the wayside. Signing

is favored for many reasons. Among the most important:

IT BUILDS VOCABULARY. An essential element of an infant's

development is realizing that he can label things in the world

around him. Most children do so by attempting to speak the word. For

children who can't speak, signing not only gives them the

opportunity to show that they know what things are called; it also

helps them to learn more.

IT REDUCES TANTRUMS. With the acquisition of signs, the child

acquires the means to communicate. He can begin to make himself

understood, significantly reducing his frustration, which had

probably expressed itself in tears and tantrums. At the same time

your frustration is also decreased.

IT EXPANDS EXPRESSIVE LANGUAGE. Signing enables the child to acquire

expressive language, even if it is not spoken language. A child who

has difficulty producing the basic sounds of speech is at a distinct

disadvantage when it comes to learning how to string words together

in meaningful and correct sentences. Using sign gives that child a

way of exploring and mastering the development of language.

IT HELPS THE LISTENER. When used in tandem with a child's attempts

at speech, signing can greatly enhance the child's chance of being

understood. For instance, if a child is able to construct a three-

word sentence in which each word is an approximation, and therefore

not properly articulated, the listener may not comprehend what is

being said. Add sign to the vocal effort, and success is virtually

guaranteed.

IT REDUCES TEASING. It is less likely that a late-talker who signs

will be teased since the listener will assume that the child is

deaf, a more familiar condition which seems to inspire more

compassion.

As far as the human brain is concerned there's probably not as much

difference as you might think between spoken and sign communication.

A recent Canadian study using positron emission tomography (PET) to

peer inside the brain made a remarkable discovery. Scientists at

McGill University in Montreal found that deaf people—when signing—

activate the same regions of the brain as speakers without a hearing

problem.

These regions, the planum temporale and the left inferior frontal

cortex, had been associated with the processing of oral language.

But in a series of tests comparing eleven people with profound

deafness and ten people with normal hearing, blood flow was measured

within the brain and was very similar. Harvard University

neuroscientist, Dr. Caplan says that the findings support the

theory that humans have a hard-wired ability to understand language,

be it spoken or visual. "

The Late Talker St 's Press 2003

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Speech, Sign Language All the Same to Brain

From http://www.healthscout.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Af?id=106129 & ap=43 There

are many medical and speech professionals, as well as parents who believe

sign language, even " baby sign " is beneficial for any infant learning to

talk, as well as any late talker, or apraxic child. Speaking of sign

language, here is an article that you may find of interest.

Speech, Sign Language All the Same to Brain

Communication modes light up same centers

By Adam Marcus

HealthScout Reporter

MONDAY, Dec. 4 (HealthScout) -- It might seem that, when it comes to the way

the brain handles information, a conversation in sign language is a world

apart from a telephone call. After all, the first is video and the second

audio.

But Canadian scientists say they've found that deaf people activate the same

brain regions when signing as speakers with undamaged hearing. " We've shown

that this area, which typically is part of the auditory language system,

does respond to these visual stimuli, " says Zatorre, a neuroscientist

at McGill University in Montreal and co-author of the paper. " What we have

to find out now is why it responds to these stimuli. " It could be, Zatorre

says, that damage to the auditory language centers alters the nerves that

handle visual language. Or, he says, it may be that the human brain evolved

with a single, basic translator that processes communication. A report on

the findings appears in the latest issue of the Proceedings of the National

Academy of Sciences.

Some research has suggested that sign language triggers electrical activity

in the brain's language centers. But it has been assumed that audio cues

were processed in discrete areas and visual signals another.

Zatorre and his colleagues, led by Ann Petitto, used positron emission

tomography -- a scanning technique that measures the blood flow to tissue --

to examine neurons in areas of the brain thought to be specific to the

production and processing of speech.

The researchers studied 11 people with profound deafness from birth, who

knew either American Sign Language or Langue des Signes Quebecoise, a French

Canadian version of the language. For comparison, they also included 10

people without hearing trouble.

Same part of brain set off

The subjects were asked to perform five visual language tasks, such as a

twist on word repetition and a verb generation exercise, while undergoing

the brain scans.

In each of these tests, the two groups of subjects had similar brain

activity in the planum temporale, a brain area associated with oral

language. And in a drill to trigger a mental search for verbs, the deaf

subjects also showed neuron activity in the left inferior frontal cortex,

another area that helps process spoken words.

" Both the input and output are quite different, and yet the brain is really

responding in the same way, " Zatorre says. " This area of the brain is doing

something more abstract and more general than just processing sound. "

Dr. Caplan, a Harvard University neuroscientist and author of an

editorial accompanying the journal article, says the findings support the

theory that humans have a hard-wired ability to understand language, be it

spoken or visual. " At a higher level of abstraction it's all the same. It

doesn't matter whether the input is visual, verbal, clicks, " or some other

form, Caplan says.

" The brain doesn't seem to care about the modality that's being used for

communication, " agrees Dr. Gannon, director of the Neurobiology of

Language Laboratory at Mt. Sinai School of Medicine in New York City. " It's

communication and language whether it's auditory or visual. "

Gannon, who has studied the planum temporale in chimps, says a combined

auditory and visual language center for humans jibes with the way the

primates communicate. " Chimps use vocalization but mostly gestures, " says

Gannon.

What's not clear from the work, however, is whether other rapidly changing

stimuli -- traffic patterns, for instance -- trigger the same sort of brain

activity in deaf people, Caplan says. " We don't know what happens in deaf

people in this area when stimuli like that are presented, " he says.

What To Do

To learn more about sign languages, try HandSpeak,

http://dww.deafworldweb.org/asl/, or you can check out this article in the

American Scientist.

http://www.sigmaxi.org/amsci/articles/99articles/corballisbrain.html

SOURCES: Interviews with Zatorre, Ph.D., associate professor of

cognitive neuroscience, McGill University, Montreal; Caplan, M.D.,

Ph.D., Harvard University, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston; and

J. Gannon, director, Neurobiology of Language Laboratory, assistant

professor of otolaryngology, Mt. Sinai School of Medicine, New York; Dec. 5,

2000 Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

=====

[Guest guest]

Ditto what others have said - I've never heard a professional state that sign

language shouldn't be used! All of the SLPs we've worked with have encouraged

it. And I do believe that ASL would open those doors of communication if you're

dedicated enough to learn enough. We searched and searched for classes we could

take as a family, but couldn't find a thing. Schools for the Deaf offer classes

for families, but only for children enrolled. Community Colleges offer classes,

but only for adults. We'd learned all we could from Signing Time and books, but

felt we all needed more practice to become proficient; afterall, we weren't sure

our son would ever speak well enough to communicate all of those things you also

posted about. I ended up finding a local Meet Up Group (meetup.com, that is)

called Deaf Chat Coffee - a group of hearing and deaf people all interested in

learning and practicing ASL - and reached out to the organizer for help. Turned

out she is a licensed ASL interpreter who works for the school system and was

delighted to help. You might consider seeking groups like this that will allow

you and your family to immerse yourself in ASL, that way you can see if your

child takes to it. We found that our son was delighted to be around others who

" spoke " like him and picked up quite a few more signs. We think the best part

of the experience was that it boosted his self-esteem.

Hope this helps a bit.

Dianne

> > >

> > > Hi everyone. My daughter's annual IEP review is coming up and I have a

question that maybe some of you could help with.

> > >

> > Signing is my first choice, because it's an actual language so even if she

miraculously starts speaking in clear sentences the day after she learns it, she

is learning a language that she can use the rest of her life. Of course I want

to weigh all our options but I keep coming back to signing.

> > >

> > > This is where my question comes in... When she started in her preschool

class a little over a year ago, her speech therapist made it clear that she felt

sign language would only hold H back and prevent her from trying to talk. H

went in knowing some basic signs from Signing Time, but early on the ST

instructed anyone who worked with H to not respond unless she attempted to make

a sound as well as a sign. This upset me initially, but I decided to give the

ST the benefit of the doubt (since she's been doing this a while and knows more

than I do) Now as our IEP meeting approaches, I know things need to change and

I am not sure the ST will agree with me, especially given the progress H has

made over the past year. So, I am trying to figure out what I can require of

the school. I would like to actively teach H (and our family) sign language so

she can finally communicate beyond the basics. Is this something I will have to

do on my own, or can I request that the school get her a sign language

instructor? I know they are legally obligated to provide whatever H needs for

her education, but being that H has no hearing issues, this may be something

that they won't see as a necessity.

> > >

> > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, here is a website that has sign language with a video to show how it is

done. http://commtechlab.msu.edu/sites/aslweb/browser.htm

There are also a list of the 100, 300 and 1000 most common words in English on

the internet.

I haven't taught my son much sign language, but I started to learn the 300 most

common words, before I got side tracked, and stopped.

Sincerely,

Barbara

PS: Also you could try to find a local college sign language class to find a

cheap tutor.

[Guest guest]

I spoke to one SLP about a month ago who also indicated she did NOT support the

teaching of sign language to an apraxic child. She considered herself an

apraxia expert. I believe her rational was why have a child who has motor

planning issues spend the time trying to learn how to do sign language, when it

would be more effective teaching that child how to make sounds and talk?

Note, we had already started watching the Signing Time DVDs last fall, and we're

not constantly working with that SLP. I'm amazed when my son comes out with a

new sign.

> > > >

> > > > Hi everyone. My daughter's annual IEP review is coming up and I have a

question that maybe some of you could help with.

> > > >

> > > Signing is my first choice, because it's an actual language so even if she

miraculously starts speaking in clear sentences the day after she learns it, she

is learning a language that she can use the rest of her life. Of course I want

to weigh all our options but I keep coming back to signing.

> > > >

> > > > This is where my question comes in... When she started in her preschool

class a little over a year ago, her speech therapist made it clear that she felt

sign language would only hold H back and prevent her from trying to talk. H

went in knowing some basic signs from Signing Time, but early on the ST

instructed anyone who worked with H to not respond unless she attempted to make

a sound as well as a sign. This upset me initially, but I decided to give the

ST the benefit of the doubt (since she's been doing this a while and knows more

than I do) Now as our IEP meeting approaches, I know things need to change and

I am not sure the ST will agree with me, especially given the progress H has

made over the past year. So, I am trying to figure out what I can require of

the school. I would like to actively teach H (and our family) sign language so

she can finally communicate beyond the basics. Is this something I will have to

do on my own, or can I request that the school get her a sign language

instructor? I know they are legally obligated to provide whatever H needs for

her education, but being that H has no hearing issues, this may be something

that they won't see as a necessity.

> > > >

> > > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

> > > >

> > > > Thanks!

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I believe that Signing Time videos are what helped to trigger language/speech

for my son, then age 4. He would pair the sign with some sort of artic. It was

huge!! And the songs are so cute too.

Alyssa

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 16, 2010, at 2:28 PM, " njmomto6 " <morepooh@...> wrote:

Hi everyone. My daughter's annual IEP review is coming up and I have a question

that maybe some of you could help with.

H is 4 and currently attending our district's preschool for kids with various

disabilities. She has global delays, but her main problem is speech. She has a

severe expressive delay. (apraxia probably due to seizures) Receptively, I think

she is ok but probably held back quite a bit because of the expressive issues.

She's got about 60 single words right now, and can do some 2-3 word combos but

that is very limited. Many of her words are not clear and some she can say one

day and not the next. Often she'll need prompting with at least the initial

sound, and even words she knows well, like Mommy and Daddy, she sometimes has to

" reach " for. She's doing great at repeating sounds and is worlds beyond where

she was at this time last year. However, at this point I think it is time to

look at giving her some other form of communication. I know she has more to say

and not being able to express it is frustrating for her as well as us. Signing

is my first choice,

because it's an actual language so even if she miraculously starts speaking in

clear sentences the day after she learns it, she is learning a language that she

can use the rest of her life. Of course I want to weigh all our options but I

keep coming back to signing.

This is where my question comes in... When she started in her preschool class a

little over a year ago, her speech therapist made it clear that she felt sign

language would only hold H back and prevent her from trying to talk. H went in

knowing some basic signs from Signing Time, but early on the ST instructed

anyone who worked with H to not respond unless she attempted to make a sound as

well as a sign. This upset me initially, but I decided to give the ST the

benefit of the doubt (since she's been doing this a while and knows more than I

do) Now as our IEP meeting approaches, I know things need to change and I am not

sure the ST will agree with me, especially given the progress H has made over

the past year. So, I am trying to figure out what I can require of the school. I

would like to actively teach H (and our family) sign language so she can finally

communicate beyond the basics. Is this something I will have to do on my own, or

can I request that

the school get her a sign language instructor? I know they are legally

obligated to provide whatever H needs for her education, but being that H has no

hearing issues, this may be something that they won't see as a necessity.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

I started checking out signing time from the library for my son. I didn't want

him to become proficient in ASL, I just wanted him to have some way to

communicate. We started when he was 24 months and non-verbal. When EI came to

eval him at 28 months he had a couple of words and over 100 signs. The SL

wasn't too happy that I was teaching him sign and told me to try to get him to

say a sound when signing, which didn't work at all. She also counted his signs

and words and so didn't give him therapy. Really until I started him on fish

oils at 32 mo, he wouldn't even try to make any sound. As he started learning

words, he dropped the signs, but he is very expressive with his hands, which is

super cute.

Liralen

>

> Hi everyone. My daughter's annual IEP review is coming up and I have a

question that maybe some of you could help with.

>

> H is 4 and currently attending our district's preschool for kids with various

disabilities. She has global delays, but her main problem is speech. She has a

severe expressive delay. (apraxia probably due to seizures) Receptively, I think

she is ok but probably held back quite a bit because of the expressive issues.

She's got about 60 single words right now, and can do some 2-3 word combos but

that is very limited. Many of her words are not clear and some she can say one

day and not the next. Often she'll need prompting with at least the initial

sound, and even words she knows well, like Mommy and Daddy, she sometimes has to

" reach " for. She's doing great at repeating sounds and is worlds beyond where

she was at this time last year. However, at this point I think it is time to

look at giving her some other form of communication. I know she has more to say

and not being able to express it is frustrating for her as well as us. Signing

is my first choice,

> because it's an actual language so even if she miraculously starts speaking

in clear sentences the day after she learns it, she is learning a language that

she can use the rest of her life. Of course I want to weigh all our options but

I keep coming back to signing.

>

> This is where my question comes in... When she started in her preschool class

a little over a year ago, her speech therapist made it clear that she felt sign

language would only hold H back and prevent her from trying to talk. H went in

knowing some basic signs from Signing Time, but early on the ST instructed

anyone who worked with H to not respond unless she attempted to make a sound as

well as a sign. This upset me initially, but I decided to give the ST the

benefit of the doubt (since she's been doing this a while and knows more than I

do) Now as our IEP meeting approaches, I know things need to change and I am not

sure the ST will agree with me, especially given the progress H has made over

the past year. So, I am trying to figure out what I can require of the school. I

would like to actively teach H (and our family) sign language so she can finally

communicate beyond the basics. Is this something I will have to do on my own, or

can I request that

> the school get her a sign language instructor? I know they are legally

obligated to provide whatever H needs for her education, but being that H has no

hearing issues, this may be something that they won't see as a necessity.

>

> Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

>

> Thanks!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I guess that theory makes sense, and that is possibly where our SLP is coming

from. It is nice to hear an actual reason behind that school of thought. I do

feel that in my daughter's case, the sounds are just SO hard for her and the

signs seem to come easier. I do wonder if sign will be any easier for her to

put together, since I have read that sign and speech come from the same part of

the brain. I guess it's possible that it will be just as hard for her to

produce multiple signs as it is for sounds. But, at least it takes care of the

obstacle of making sounds that she may not be able to make.

Maybe PECS or a device will end up being the better route. Ugh...I can't wait

for this IEP to be over with!

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi everyone. My daughter's annual IEP review is coming up and I have

a question that maybe some of you could help with.

> > > > >

> > > > Signing is my first choice, because it's an actual language so even if

she miraculously starts speaking in clear sentences the day after she learns it,

she is learning a language that she can use the rest of her life. Of course I

want to weigh all our options but I keep coming back to signing.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is where my question comes in... When she started in her

preschool class a little over a year ago, her speech therapist made it clear

that she felt sign language would only hold H back and prevent her from trying

to talk. H went in knowing some basic signs from Signing Time, but early on the

ST instructed anyone who worked with H to not respond unless she attempted to

make a sound as well as a sign. This upset me initially, but I decided to give

the ST the benefit of the doubt (since she's been doing this a while and knows

more than I do) Now as our IEP meeting approaches, I know things need to change

and I am not sure the ST will agree with me, especially given the progress H has

made over the past year. So, I am trying to figure out what I can require of

the school. I would like to actively teach H (and our family) sign language so

she can finally communicate beyond the basics. Is this something I will have to

do on my own, or can I request that the school get her a sign language

instructor? I know they are legally obligated to provide whatever H needs for

her education, but being that H has no hearing issues, this may be something

that they won't see as a necessity.

> > > > >

> > > > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks!

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Dianne! That is great that you found a local meet up. I have checked

for groups and sign language classes in our area but have not found anything

yet. I didn't think of checking with the community college. Even though the

class would be for adults only, it would help because I could teach her what I

learn. If we do end up convincing the school to work on it with her, I would

have to take a class to learn it myself anyway.

> > > >

> > > > Hi everyone. My daughter's annual IEP review is coming up and I have a

question that maybe some of you could help with.

> > > >

> > > Signing is my first choice, because it's an actual language so even if she

miraculously starts speaking in clear sentences the day after she learns it, she

is learning a language that she can use the rest of her life. Of course I want

to weigh all our options but I keep coming back to signing.

> > > >

> > > > This is where my question comes in... When she started in her preschool

class a little over a year ago, her speech therapist made it clear that she felt

sign language would only hold H back and prevent her from trying to talk. H

went in knowing some basic signs from Signing Time, but early on the ST

instructed anyone who worked with H to not respond unless she attempted to make

a sound as well as a sign. This upset me initially, but I decided to give the

ST the benefit of the doubt (since she's been doing this a while and knows more

than I do) Now as our IEP meeting approaches, I know things need to change and

I am not sure the ST will agree with me, especially given the progress H has

made over the past year. So, I am trying to figure out what I can require of

the school. I would like to actively teach H (and our family) sign language so

she can finally communicate beyond the basics. Is this something I will have to

do on my own, or can I request that the school get her a sign language

instructor? I know they are legally obligated to provide whatever H needs for

her education, but being that H has no hearing issues, this may be something

that they won't see as a necessity.

> > > >

> > > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

> > > >

> > > > Thanks!

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I haven't looked too far into the fish oils because of H's seizures. I have

read that they can cause more seizures, but have also read they can stop them.

I always forget to ask the neurologist but plan on asking next time.

> >

> > Hi everyone. My daughter's annual IEP review is coming up and I have a

question that maybe some of you could help with.

> >

> > H is 4 and currently attending our district's preschool for kids with

various disabilities. She has global delays, but her main problem is speech. She

has a severe expressive delay. (apraxia probably due to seizures) Receptively, I

think she is ok but probably held back quite a bit because of the expressive

issues. She's got about 60 single words right now, and can do some 2-3 word

combos but that is very limited. Many of her words are not clear and some she

can say one day and not the next. Often she'll need prompting with at least the

initial sound, and even words she knows well, like Mommy and Daddy, she

sometimes has to " reach " for. She's doing great at repeating sounds and is

worlds beyond where she was at this time last year. However, at this point I

think it is time to look at giving her some other form of communication. I know

she has more to say and not being able to express it is frustrating for her as

well as us. Signing is my first choice,

> > because it's an actual language so even if she miraculously starts speaking

in clear sentences the day after she learns it, she is learning a language that

she can use the rest of her life. Of course I want to weigh all our options but

I keep coming back to signing.

> >

> > This is where my question comes in... When she started in her preschool

class a little over a year ago, her speech therapist made it clear that she felt

sign language would only hold H back and prevent her from trying to talk. H went

in knowing some basic signs from Signing Time, but early on the ST instructed

anyone who worked with H to not respond unless she attempted to make a sound as

well as a sign. This upset me initially, but I decided to give the ST the

benefit of the doubt (since she's been doing this a while and knows more than I

do) Now as our IEP meeting approaches, I know things need to change and I am not

sure the ST will agree with me, especially given the progress H has made over

the past year. So, I am trying to figure out what I can require of the school. I

would like to actively teach H (and our family) sign language so she can finally

communicate beyond the basics. Is this something I will have to do on my own, or

can I request that

> > the school get her a sign language instructor? I know they are legally

obligated to provide whatever H needs for her education, but being that H has no

hearing issues, this may be something that they won't see as a necessity.

> >

> > Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

> >

> > Thanks!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I believe however the question needs to be simple sign to reduce frustration

-not necessarily enough sign language to translate War and Peace or something!

I mean they teach simple sign to babies! As far as

A. being an expert in apraxia + B. not wanting to " spend time teaching sign " to

a child with a motor planning disorder who is not able to communicate any other

way at the moment by the way (wouldn't that equal) an SLP yes -but an expert in

apraxia??? People have to get over themselves. At least stay open minded

-there is research that supports sign language as stimulating the same area of

the brain as speech- so I'd say it's time well spent.

And since proof is in the pudding -here's an archive on one such child that

proves how powerful sign can be in communication and perhaps even academics down

the road!

" Parents are also using Signing Time to communicate with children

with special needs. Kei Malone, a mother in Massachusetts

explains, " When my son , who has Down syndrome, spelled the

word `red' with the refrigerator magnets, signed each letter, and

then signed `red,' I was blown away. He was only 4 ½ years old at the

time and the fact that he has Down syndrome and verbal apraxia too,

just emphasized that signing with him since he was an infant was the

right thing to do. "

http://www.signingpower.com/a262206-babies-learn-to-read-with-signing.cfm

And from that same link:

" Salt Lake City, UT March 11, 2008 -- Yesterday

morning viewers of NBC's Today Show watched in awe as 17-month-old

Barrett read to them. 's parents attribute her

early reading in part to Signing Time, the television and DVD series

that teaches young children to communicate using American Sign

Language (ASL).

According to the Today Show, " Katy Barrett and her husband, ,

are speech pathologists, and when was born they started

teaching her sign language along with spoken language. They read to

her often, and her favorite television program — the only one her

parents let her watch — was a PBS show called `Signing Time,' which

teaches kids sign language. "

Did anyone see this baby reading?!!!

You can find her up here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3y0ahkVfaE & feature=related 17-

month-old who can read from the

TODAY show (very clear from actual show) or here from You Tube

=====