Re: Enjoying feeling empty and hungry

[Guest guest]

Russ,

When I am on track and losing and have cleansed my body of most foods

that do not fit my CRON diet.. I actually do enjoy the empty and

bordering on hungry feeling. There is a point of hunger where I can

experience stomach " pains " or " pangs " and I do not like to push that

point...(frankly it seems pointless) ..and then if near mealtime I

eat a meal...if not I eat a snack that I know will stifle the hunger

until a mealtime.

But I do find I can get to my CRON goal faster if I stay on the edge

of hunger and once my system is purged(just by fasting..no bulimia)

of any non CRON foods I have eaten (fat sugar or salt) taken in for

whatever reason. The slightly empty borderline hunger place usually

has me feeling very fit.

Lucy

> I take a yoga class at chat time on Mondays, so I won't be in the

chat room,

> or I would bring this up there first.

>

> I've seen a fair number of messages about food, recipes, and ways

not to

> feel hungry. I enjoy feeling empty and hungry. I'm wondering if

there are

> others in this group who do too.

>

> -- Russ

[Guest guest]

Hi Lucy, Francesca,

Thanks for your answers. I'm surprised there weren't more. I'm also

surprised that you both mentioned bulimia, which is quite a violent way to

treat oneself and very different from feeling empty and hungry. What I

think the emptiness and enjoyment of hunger is more related to is anorexia.

I've never been anorexic (I get too hungry), but I've been drawn to the idea

(ideal?) of anorexic emptiness. Have you ever looked at the pro-ana web

sites? Most have been shut down, but here are a couple:

http://hiddenmia.house-of-sins.com/ and http://www.ana-by-choice.com/.

Francesca suggested that I'm a CR natural. Far from it. My parents were

both overweight, and most of my life, although not fat, I tended to use food

(not alcohol or drugs or other anesthesia) for comfort. Somehow, I was also

put off by fat. (Perhaps I owe that to my parents as well, i.e., in

reaction to their being overweight.) So there was always a tension for me

between using food for comfort and wanting not to be fat. (And if you can't

tell by my name or writing style, I'm a heterosexual male.)

Thinness was always erotic for me as well. For example, when I was in

school (in the 60's!) many hippies (do you remember hippies?) were quite

thin. (I was more or less average.) I liked thinking about my skinny

friends making love by wrapping themselves around each other like vines. Of

course this was long before CR provided an intellectual rationale for cr.

The struggle for me was that unlike alcohol, one can't stop eating entirely.

But I few years ago I did find my own version of sobriety: I stopped eating

sugar and most fats. Again, it wasn't CR-motivated; it was more a way of

dealing with my own struggle. Naturally I feel a lot better, and I relate

strongly to what Lucy says about cleaning my body of non-CRON foods. I'm

not perfect. Every once in a while, I do eat sugar or a rich meal. But I

feel the difference (it seems like I feel it in my blood), and I'm happy

when I'm back on track.

Of course, there's a lot more to say about this, but I guess that's enough

for now. I'm wondering how many of us out there are drawn to CR as an

after-the-fact justification for a tendency that we feel drawn to anyway. I

would love to find people with feelings similar to mine who want to talk

about it.

-- Russ

-----Original Messages-----

Message: 3

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 21:48:20 -0000

From: " jerryah86406 " <ldudzik@...>

Subject: Re: Enjoying feeling empty and hungry

Russ,

When I am on track and losing and have cleansed my body of most foods

that do not fit my CRON diet.. I actually do enjoy the empty and

bordering on hungry feeling. ...

But I do find I can get to my CRON goal faster if I stay on the edge

of hunger and once my system is purged (just by fasting..no bulimia)

of any non CRON foods I have eaten (fat sugar or salt) taken in for

whatever reason. The slightly empty borderline hunger place usually

has me feeling very fit.

Lucy

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 18:42:43 -0400

From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@...>

Subject: non-hunger/chat

Russ: you are not alone. Many such as Warren really get into the hunger and

dig it. And you're lucky! You're a CR " natural " . Just be careful that

your enjoyment doesn't degenerate into bulimia. Make sure you get AT LEAST

1000 cal a day, even if you're enjoying yourself without it.

[Guest guest]

Hi Russ,

Just wanted to resonate to your comment on family and food as comfort.

My mother was not obese but she always dealt with being chubby. Of course the

kitchen was her " job " and as my kid brother told me..food is how Mom loved you.

I too grew rejecting fat but having to fight it. Food was both comfort and

reward. Food patterns were not much help either... imagine a standard menu was

Baked potato, baked beans and baked macaroni and cheese. I can look at that now

and LOL at how much starch/carbohydrate was in that.

As a wife and mother I also was tied to the kitchen job...raising 8 kids...and

having 6 pregnancies to gain and then fight back to normal size.

I know if I did not fight my bodies tendency to gain.. I would easily be obese.

As I have aged..my choking point has got higher and the job was often bigger. I

never fell for fad diets or the television promises ..I knew always it was up to

me..and how much I wanted it and I wanted to do it in good health.

I am basically restarting CRON .. I tend to fall off the wagon in Crisis and

caring for my 94 year old father leaves a lot of opportunity for that.

But the tools and suggestions I have found on both lists and the software from

Walford to track is a real asset. I am temporarily deprived of that due to

computer trouble...but at this point I am just eating..good CRON foods and

checking my TANITA scale to track what is happening.

Lucy

> Hi Lucy, Francesca,

>

> Thanks for your answers. I'm surprised there weren't more. I'm also

> surprised that you both mentioned bulimia, which is quite a violent way to

> treat oneself and very different from feeling empty and hungry. What I

> think the emptiness and enjoyment of hunger is more related to is anorexia.

>

> I've never been anorexic (I get too hungry), but I've been drawn to the idea

> (ideal?) of anorexic emptiness. Have you ever looked at the pro-ana web

> sites? Most have been shut down, but here are a couple:

> http://hiddenmia.house-of-sins.com/ and http://www.ana-by-choice.com/.

>

> Francesca suggested that I'm a CR natural. Far from it. My parents were

> both overweight, and most of my life, although not fat, I tended to use food

> (not alcohol or drugs or other anesthesia) for comfort. Somehow, I was also

> put off by fat. (Perhaps I owe that to my parents as well, i.e., in

> reaction to their being overweight.) So there was always a tension for me

> between using food for comfort and wanting not to be fat.

[Guest guest]

Hi Lucy,

Thanks for your openess and honesty.

-- Russ

--- In @y..., " jerryah86406 " <ldudzik@c...>

wrote:

> Hi Russ,

> Just wanted to resonate to your comment on family and food as

comfort.

>

> My mother was not obese but she always dealt with being chubby. Of

course the kitchen was her " job " and as my kid brother told me..food

is how Mom loved you.

>

> I too grew rejecting fat but having to fight it. Food was both

comfort and reward. Food patterns were not much help either...

imagine a standard menu was Baked potato, baked beans and baked

macaroni and cheese. I can look at that now and LOL at how much

starch/carbohydrate was in that.

>

> As a wife and mother I also was tied to the kitchen job...raising 8

kids...and having 6 pregnancies to gain and then fight back to normal

size.

>

> I know if I did not fight my bodies tendency to gain.. I would

easily be obese. As I have aged..my choking point has got higher and

the job was often bigger. I never fell for fad diets or the

television promises ..I knew always it was up to me..and how much I

wanted it and I wanted to do it in good health.

>

> I am basically restarting CRON .. I tend to fall off the wagon in

Crisis and caring for my 94 year old father leaves a lot of

opportunity for that.

>

> But the tools and suggestions I have found on both lists and the

software from Walford to track is a real asset. I am temporarily

deprived of that due to computer trouble...but at this point I am

just eating..good CRON foods and checking my TANITA scale to track

what is happening.

> Lucy

>

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

In /message/3246

Russ said:

" I find emptiness and hunger (to a point) sexy. The most direct

connection I can think of is foreplay. In foreplay one deliberately

generates hunger. It is very sexy and arousing. It seems to me that

hunger of almost any sort when it represents an enhanced awareness of

physicality is sexy. "

Shakespeare said it:

AS YOU LIKE IT Act 2 Scene 7. ORLANDO: Oppress'd with two weak evils,

age and hunger

1 KING HENRY VI Act 1 Scene 2. CHARLES: And hunger will enforce them

to be more eager

PERICLES, PRINCE OF TYRE Act 1 Scene 4. PERICLES: And give them life

whom hunger starved

Webster's Dictionary said:

Hunger

1. An uneasy sensation occasioned normally by the want of food; a

craving or desire for food. The sensation of hunger is usually

referred to the stomach, but is probably dependent on excitation of

the sensory nerves, both of the stomach and intestines, and perhaps

also on indirect impressions from other organs, more or less exhausted

from lack of nutriment.

2. Any strong eager desire. " O sacred hunger of ambitious minds! "

(Spenser) " For hunger of my gold I die. " (Dryden)

Origin: AS. Hungor; akin to OFries. Hunger, D. Honger, OS. & OHG.

Hungar, G. Hunger, Icel. Hungr, Sw. & Dan. Hunger, Goth. Hhrus hunger,

huggrjan to hunger.

Cheers, Al.