Re: Self contained class vs. regular with aide

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

I have no answers for you, because we are behind you in this. My

daughter is 5, and starts kindergarten next year. All of the things

that your daughter is going through right now, they say mine will

experience. She has trouble concentrating, and definately " zones out " a

lot. I am so glad you posted this, as input will help me as well!

Thank you-

[ ] Self contained class vs. regular

with aide

Much to my dismay we met with our 7 year old daughters teachers

yesterday and they are strongly suggesting she be in the special ed self

contained classroom for next year. She is in a regular second grade

class going out to the resource room for reading and math.She has an

aide.It is a very small group-it has fluctuated between 4 and 6

children. Since the beginning of the school year her classroom teacher

and spec ed teacher, for reading and math, have reported poor focus,lack

of independent working,and sometimes mild resistance to actually doing

the work.It's so frustrating because her reading skills and math

sequencing skills are so inconsistant -great one day with improvement

then messing up sometimes simple counting.. Also, when she is pulled

aside for more individual insruction she resists, saying she wants to

stay with all the kids and do what they are doing.

On the contrary ,at home I found her focus and concentration

very good and much improved to last year. She also reads better at home,

does some of the new material in math better at home, knows her spelling

words awesome at home, then takes the test at school and messes up. Her

speech pathologist who has worked with her at school for the past 4 1/2

years has said she is much more attentive in group and not as distracted

as she was in the past years.She has much difficulty with math but at

home she tries so hard and really works hard on her homework. However, I

have seen the zoned out inattentive behavior the teachers are talking

about-last year(only periodically now),and currently at dance class

(which is difficult for her-but she loves it and insists on still

dancing).

The teachers think she will be lost in the greatly increased

independent expectations in a third grade class, even if she goes out

for reading and math.They said she is very quiet in the regular clssroom

while they are doing science and social studies, and during group

reading. Her teacher said she seems kind of spent and just tired and

zones out by the end of the day when she is in the regular class for

that. They said they think she would " shine " in the special ed class.

And she would go to a regular class for social studies and science but

there would be less expectations placed on her for projects and reports.

I asked why they couldn't do that if she was just in the regular class

and went to the resource room for reading and math. Also, they said they

think she will start to be picked on because kids start to get that way

in third grade. Shea,our daughter, is more imature acting than her peers

and her speech makes her sound much younger(more like a three year

old).They said the kids in the class now are nice, but they kind of

treat her younger and try to help her, but they are worried as she gets

older like next year, it can turn mean and Shea will start realizing she

is different and comments from kids will hurt her.

She has an aide now who hangs back but helps out if needed. The

aide is assigned to her but I know they have 2 severe behavior kids in

her class room on purpose because they know the aid will be there to

help.

I would really appreciate anyones inut or experiences. By the

way,she LOVES school. Thanks so much, cheryl

[Guest guest]

This is a very difficult choice and each person has their own strong opinions. 

I would like to share my point of view.  My son is now in fourth grade.  He

has been fully included in general education throughout his schooling since

PK.  In the beginning I felt that my son's needs would be best met in a regular

education classroom with a 1:1.  As the years went on I have slowly changed my

mind.  Each year the the gap gets a bit larger and the differences are more

apparent.   My sons needs still remain high and I feel that he is loosing out

on good strong teaching time  consistently taught throughout his day.   My

son does get some pull out with a special education teacher during the day. 

When he is in general ed he has a 1:1, who is not an educator!  She is

wonderful with my guy but not trained to help him work on the modified

curriculum.  I have also noticed that she acts has his interpreter of the

instructional language.  As my guy has

expressive and receptive issues.  I feel that he would benefit from a small

self contained classroom with his peers, not the peers that the school feels. 

He is not benefiting from learning from his " typical " peers at this time.  He

is also not having play dates or socials with these children outside of

school.  And I strongly feel that he would have this opportunity if he was with

" his " peers.  Now for me social is very important but at this time I need to

focus on academics as he is several years below grade level.  I feel that when

a child (mine) is spending time in general ed with some pull out there day is

broken up and very inconsistent.  If my son was in a classroom all day working

on the  curriculum he would have a greater chance of attempting to close the

gap. 

Your team at school is right, third grade is a big year.  The demands increase

and children start to take the state achievement tests.  Where we live this is

huge!!!  Depending on what kind of test our county offers a special education

student, can mean the difference between diploma bound or not! 

I completely think that every case is different and what works for some children

may not work of all.    Hopefully you can work together with your daughter

team and come up with what is best for her.  Maybe you can try the self

contained classroom. Hoping there are several others in that class working as a

group.   You can always call an IEP meeting and ask to put her back into

general ed too.

I hope this helps as I am very passionate about this and have many thoughts and

sometimes they all run together when trying to explain.  If you have any

questions, please feel free to contact me.

*On another note.  February 4th will be 1year seizure free since Matt

started NV!!!

Alyssa

From: capetalker <capetalker@...>

Sent: Wed, January 19, 2011 12:16:14 PM

Subject: [ ] Self contained class vs. regular with aide

Much to my dismay we met with our 7 year old daughters teachers

yesterday and they are strongly suggesting she be in the special ed

self contained classroom for next year. She is in a regular second

grade class going out to the resource room for reading and math.She has

an aide.It is a very small group-it has fluctuated between 4 and 6

children. Since the beginning of the school year her classroom teacher

and spec ed teacher, for reading and math, have reported poor focus,lack

of independent working,and sometimes mild resistance to actually doing

the work.It's so frustrating because her reading skills and math

sequencing skills are so inconsistant -great one day with improvement

then messing up sometimes simple counting.. Also, when she is pulled

aside for more individual insruction she resists, saying she wants to

stay with all the kids and do what they are doing.

On the contrary ,at home I found her focus and concentration very good

and much improved to last year. She also reads better at home, does some

of the new material in math better at home, knows her spelling words

awesome at home, then takes the test at school and messes up. Her speech

pathologist who has worked with her at school for the past 4 1/2 years

has said she is much more attentive in group and not as distracted as

she was in the past years.She has much difficulty with math but at home

she tries so hard and really works hard on her homework. However, I have

seen the zoned out inattentive behavior the teachers are talking

about-last year(only periodically now),and currently at dance class

(which is difficult for her-but she loves it and insists on still

dancing).

The teachers think she will be lost in the greatly increased

independent expectations in a third grade class, even if she goes out

for reading and math.They said she is very quiet in the regular clssroom

while they are doing science and social studies, and during group

reading. Her teacher said she seems kind of spent and just tired and

zones out by the end of the day when she is in the regular class for

that. They said they think she would " shine " in the special ed class.

And she would go to a regular class for social studies and science but

there would be less expectations placed on her for projects and reports.

I asked why they couldn't do that if she was just in the regular class

and went to the resource room for reading and math. Also, they said they

think she will start to be picked on because kids start to get that way

in third grade. Shea,our daughter, is more imature acting than her

peers and her speech makes her sound much younger(more like a three year

old).They said the kids in the class now are nice, but they kind of

treat her younger and try to help her, but they are worried as she gets

older like next year, it can turn mean and Shea will start realizing she

is different and comments from kids will hurt her.

She has an aide now who hangs back but helps out if needed. The aide is

assigned to her but I know they have 2 severe behavior kids in her

class room on purpose because they know the aid will be there to help.

I would really appreciate anyones inut or experiences. By the way,she LOVES

school. Thanks so much, cheryl

[Guest guest]

I dont have strong opinions, just my experience! My 9yo has been in a

self-contained class her whole school career. Its what she needed from K so I

never had a choice. I dont know if any of this will help. Most districts have a

K-2 class and a 3-5 gr class. They are both 1-10-4 so there are four aides in

the classroom. Each aide gets responsibility for a grade of kids. When she

started K there were three of them, her and two other children. the three of

them are still together in 4th grade now! Their aide would take them every

morning to the mainstream class for their grade. They'd go for morning circle

times which would be weather, day of week, how many days of school...etc. Than

they'd go back to their self-contained class where they could do their own level

of work in a smaller and quieter environment than the mainstream class. They'd

also have gym, art, music, recess and lunch with their mainstream class/grade.

They were paired very carefully with the mainstream teacher who was best able to

handle special needs students. I like that they had the smaller and quieter

classroom to do their own work. They'd also have PT OT and Speech worked into

their day/week.

One thing I dont like is that last year, when she became a 3rd grader, and

crossed the hall to the big kids class, the time in the mainstream class became

almost non-existent! What they told me, is that by 3rd grade, typical classrooms

do not do morning circle times anymore. They are not little kids who need to

spend an hour doing weather and birthdays and all that stuff. Now they have too

much work in their day for that time on the carpet in the morning! So I can see

why they want you to do it next year, the work gets more serious and focused on

getting them ready for state testing in 4th grade. They spend 3rd grade doing

practice versions of state testing to do the real thing in 4th. I also have a

very typical 12 yo son, so I've been thru the typical classroom of 3rd graders

too...its a lot of work and very different than what 2nd grade is like!

I'd ask, if you're interested, why they cant have an IEP meeting and get your

child into the self-contained classroom for the rest of this school year and see

how it goes. Than you'd know by the end of the school year if its what you and

they, want for next year.

Maureen

[Guest guest]

Aylssa and Maureen, thanks ,you both bring up good points. I have three older

children and do know the demands are high.There is no way she could keep up with

the regular ED pace in third grade,and I did forget about the state testing(we

are in NJ). As far as having her try the self contained class now i think it

would really upset her because she has been with this class and teacher for 2

years as her class is a looping class(same students and teacher for first,then

second grade).I keep thinking " least restrictive " ,normal peer interaction-but if

she's not interacting or participating fully then she probably isnt getting the

benefit im looking for.Yet I still want to keep her standards and goals high so

she just doesnt get along(meaning maybe they arent going to keep challenging her

academically as much).Maybe I'm wrong. Alyssa, what did you mean about depending

on what kind of test a spec ed student is offered in a particular county it can

mean a diploma or not? As far as testing ,and state testing I didn " t think about

that. How is it done with children who have difficulty and an IEP? Thanks

again,Cheryl

>

> This is a very difficult choice and each person has their own strong

opinions.  I would like to share my point of view.  My son is now in fourth

grade.  He has been fully included in general education throughout his

schooling since PK.  In the beginning I felt that my son's needs would be best

met in a regular education classroom with a 1:1.  As the years went on I have

slowly changed my mind.  Each year the the gap gets a bit larger and the

differences are more apparent.   My sons needs still remain high and I feel

that he is loosing out on good strong teaching time  consistently taught

throughout his day.   My son does get some pull out with a special education

teacher during the day.  When he is in general ed he has a 1:1, who is not an

educator!  She is wonderful with my guy but not trained to help him work on the

modified curriculum.  I have also noticed that she acts has his interpreter of

the instructional language.  As my guy has

> expressive and receptive issues.  I feel that he would benefit from a small

self contained classroom with his peers, not the peers that the school feels. 

He is not benefiting from learning from his " typical " peers at this time.  He

is also not having play dates or socials with these children outside of

school.  And I strongly feel that he would have this opportunity if he was with

" his " peers.  Now for me social is very important but at this time I need to

focus on academics as he is several years below grade level.  I feel that when

a child (mine) is spending time in general ed with some pull out there day is

broken up and very inconsistent.  If my son was in a classroom all day working

on the  curriculum he would have a greater chance of attempting to close the

gap. 

> Your team at school is right, third grade is a big year.  The demands

increase and children start to take the state achievement tests.  Where we live

this is huge!!!  Depending on what kind of test our county offers a special

education student, can mean the difference between diploma bound or not! 

> I completely think that every case is different and what works for some

children may not work of all.    Hopefully you can work together with your

daughter team and come up with what is best for her.  Maybe you can try the

self contained classroom. Hoping there are several others in that class working

as a group.   You can always call an IEP meeting and ask to put her back into

general ed too.

> I hope this helps as I am very passionate about this and have many thoughts

and sometimes they all run together when trying to explain.  If you have any

questions, please feel free to contact me.

>

>

> *On another note.  February 4th will be 1year seizure free since Matt

started NV!!!

>

>

> Alyssa

>

>

>

> From: capetalker <capetalker@...>

>

> Sent: Wed, January 19, 2011 12:16:14 PM

> Subject: [ ] Self contained class vs. regular with aide

>

> Much to my dismay we met with our 7 year old daughters teachers

> yesterday and they are strongly suggesting she be in the special ed

> self contained classroom for next year. She is in a regular second

> grade class going out to the resource room for reading and math.She has

> an aide.It is a very small group-it has fluctuated between 4 and 6

> children. Since the beginning of the school year her classroom teacher

> and spec ed teacher, for reading and math, have reported poor focus,lack

> of independent working,and sometimes mild resistance to actually doing

> the work.It's so frustrating because her reading skills and math

> sequencing skills are so inconsistant -great one day with improvement

> then messing up sometimes simple counting.. Also, when she is pulled

> aside for more individual insruction she resists, saying she wants to

> stay with all the kids and do what they are doing.

>

> On the contrary ,at home I found her focus and concentration very good

> and much improved to last year. She also reads better at home, does some

> of the new material in math better at home, knows her spelling words

> awesome at home, then takes the test at school and messes up. Her speech

> pathologist who has worked with her at school for the past 4 1/2 years

> has said she is much more attentive in group and not as distracted as

> she was in the past years.She has much difficulty with math but at home

> she tries so hard and really works hard on her homework. However, I have

> seen the zoned out inattentive behavior the teachers are talking

> about-last year(only periodically now),and currently at dance class

> (which is difficult for her-but she loves it and insists on still

> dancing).

>

> The teachers think she will be lost in the greatly increased

> independent expectations in a third grade class, even if she goes out

> for reading and math.They said she is very quiet in the regular clssroom

> while they are doing science and social studies, and during group

> reading. Her teacher said she seems kind of spent and just tired and

> zones out by the end of the day when she is in the regular class for

> that. They said they think she would " shine " in the special ed class.

> And she would go to a regular class for social studies and science but

> there would be less expectations placed on her for projects and reports.

> I asked why they couldn't do that if she was just in the regular class

> and went to the resource room for reading and math. Also, they said they

> think she will start to be picked on because kids start to get that way

> in third grade. Shea,our daughter, is more imature acting than her

> peers and her speech makes her sound much younger(more like a three year

> old).They said the kids in the class now are nice, but they kind of

> treat her younger and try to help her, but they are worried as she gets

> older like next year, it can turn mean and Shea will start realizing she

> is different and comments from kids will hurt her.

>

> She has an aide now who hangs back but helps out if needed. The aide is

> assigned to her but I know they have 2 severe behavior kids in her

> class room on purpose because they know the aid will be there to help.

>

> I would really appreciate anyones inut or experiences. By the way,she LOVES

school. Thanks so much, cheryl

>

[Guest guest]

oh yes Alyssa, I forgot to say I am so very happy for Matt and you on him being

1 year seizure free-it is truly incredible that you've found something so simply

healthful to bring you to this point.Best wishes for more great things to come!

sincerely,Cheryl

> >

> > This is a very difficult choice and each person has their own strong

opinions. I would like to share my point of view. My son is now in fourth

grade. He has been fully included in general education throughout his schooling

since PK. In the beginning I felt that my son's needs would be best met in a

regular education classroom with a 1:1. As the years went on I have slowly

changed my mind. Each year the the gap gets a bit larger and the differences

are more apparent. My sons needs still remain high and I feel that he is

loosing out on good strong teaching time consistently taught throughout his

day. My son does get some pull out with a special education teacher during

the day. When he is in general ed he has a 1:1, who is not an educator! She is

wonderful with my guy but not trained to help him work on the modified

curriculum. I have also noticed that she acts has his interpreter of the

instructional language. As my guy has

> > expressive and receptive issues. I feel that he would benefit from a small

self contained classroom with his peers, not the peers that the school feels.

He is not benefiting from learning from his " typical " peers at this time. He is

also not having play dates or socials with these children outside of school.

And I strongly feel that he would have this opportunity if he was with " his "

peers. Now for me social is very important but at this time I need to focus on

academics as he is several years below grade level. I feel that when a child

(mine) is spending time in general ed with some pull out there day is broken up

and very inconsistent. If my son was in a classroom all day working on the

curriculum he would have a greater chance of attempting to close the gap.

> > Your team at school is right, third grade is a big year. The demands

increase and children start to take the state achievement tests. Where we live

this is huge!!! Depending on what kind of test our county offers a special

education student, can mean the difference between diploma bound or not!

> > I completely think that every case is different and what works for some

children may not work of all. Hopefully you can work together with your

daughter team and come up with what is best for her. Maybe you can try the self

contained classroom. Hoping there are several others in that class working as a

group. You can always call an IEP meeting and ask to put her back into general

ed too.

> > I hope this helps as I am very passionate about this and have many thoughts

and sometimes they all run together when trying to explain. If you have any

questions, please feel free to contact me.

> >

> >

> > *On another note. February 4th will be 1year seizure free since

Matt started NV!!!

> >

> >

> > Alyssa

[Guest guest]

As far as state testing that starts in third grade.  Here in land it seems

to be the line in the road.  You can take the regular state test with

accommodations that are on your child's IEP.   If that is too much then there

is the modified state achievement test.  This test has less muliply choice

questions and no constructive writing responses.  It is also given with

accommodations.  Then you have the alternative state achievement test.   Here

in land this is where it all changes!  If you child is taking an

alternative test, which the questions on the test derives from your child's

IEP.  Then this takes them away for the state curriculum.  Which then in turn

takes them off the diploma track!!!  Here in land the child would be

considered an academic life skill child....  In my eyes this is not appropriate

as a child has until they are 21 to reach a high school diploma.  So just

because they might not be doing a skill now doesn't

mean they will not achieve it at a latter date. 

When we talk about a " self contained " class room there are many different types

that fit that description.  And it is my feeling (for us) that a " self

contained " classroom is the least restrictive environment.  If my son where in

a small classroom with other learners he would learn how to work more

independantly without a 1:1.  The goal is fade the 1:1 not to make a child more

reliant on them.   If a child is in the right small group classroom they can

learn to function in this group and not be an outsider looking in.  Now of

course, everything is a juggling act.  To find a balance where a child is being

taught to their potential and not having the goals " dumped " down, is tricky but

it can be done very successfully too.

Of course you need to decide what works for your daughter but I have found

to be able to adapt to different situations.  So your child might

surprise you and not be affected by new friends/teachers etc. 

I hope this helps,

Alyssa

[Guest guest]

My son is younger so not an expert in this area but just wanted to ask if there

is a professional that can evaluate your daughter to get their opinion? It does

not make sense that she is doing so well and improved at home and not at school,

so maybe it's them more than her? Again I don't know, but either way from what

you wrote she seems to know what she wants and that is to be with her class.

Maybe talk to her and find out why she does better at home? JMHO Kate

> >

> > This is a very difficult choice and each person has their own strong

opinions.  I would like to share my point of view.  My son is now in fourth

grade.  He has been fully included in general education throughout his

schooling since PK.  In the beginning I felt that my son's needs would be best

met in a regular education classroom with a 1:1.  As the years went on I have

slowly changed my mind.  Each year the the gap gets a bit larger and the

differences are more apparent.   My sons needs still remain high and I feel

that he is loosing out on good strong teaching time  consistently taught

throughout his day.   My son does get some pull out with a special education

teacher during the day.  When he is in general ed he has a 1:1, who is not an

educator!  She is wonderful with my guy but not trained to help him work on the

modified curriculum.  I have also noticed that she acts has his interpreter of

the instructional language.  As my guy has

> > expressive and receptive issues.  I feel that he would benefit from a

small self contained classroom with his peers, not the peers that the school

feels.  He is not benefiting from learning from his " typical " peers at this

time.  He is also not having play dates or socials with these children outside

of school.  And I strongly feel that he would have this opportunity if he was

with " his " peers.  Now for me social is very important but at this time I need

to focus on academics as he is several years below grade level.  I feel that

when a child (mine) is spending time in general ed with some pull out there day

is broken up and very inconsistent.  If my son was in a classroom all day

working on the  curriculum he would have a greater chance of attempting to

close the gap. 

> > Your team at school is right, third grade is a big year.  The demands

increase and children start to take the state achievement tests.  Where we live

this is huge!!!  Depending on what kind of test our county offers a special

education student, can mean the difference between diploma bound or not! 

> > I completely think that every case is different and what works for some

children may not work of all.    Hopefully you can work together with your

daughter team and come up with what is best for her.  Maybe you can try the

self contained classroom. Hoping there are several others in that class working

as a group.   You can always call an IEP meeting and ask to put her back into

general ed too.

> > I hope this helps as I am very passionate about this and have many thoughts

and sometimes they all run together when trying to explain.  If you have any

questions, please feel free to contact me.

> >

> >

> > *On another note.  February 4th will be 1year seizure free since

Matt started NV!!!

> >

> >

> > Alyssa

> >

> >

> >

> > From: capetalker <capetalker@>

> >

> > Sent: Wed, January 19, 2011 12:16:14 PM

> > Subject: [ ] Self contained class vs. regular with aide

> >

> > Much to my dismay we met with our 7 year old daughters teachers

> > yesterday and they are strongly suggesting she be in the special ed

> > self contained classroom for next year. She is in a regular second

> > grade class going out to the resource room for reading and math.She has

> > an aide.It is a very small group-it has fluctuated between 4 and 6

> > children. Since the beginning of the school year her classroom teacher

> > and spec ed teacher, for reading and math, have reported poor focus,lack

> > of independent working,and sometimes mild resistance to actually doing

> > the work.It's so frustrating because her reading skills and math

> > sequencing skills are so inconsistant -great one day with improvement

> > then messing up sometimes simple counting.. Also, when she is pulled

> > aside for more individual insruction she resists, saying she wants to

> > stay with all the kids and do what they are doing.

> >

> > On the contrary ,at home I found her focus and concentration very good

> > and much improved to last year. She also reads better at home, does some

> > of the new material in math better at home, knows her spelling words

> > awesome at home, then takes the test at school and messes up. Her speech

> > pathologist who has worked with her at school for the past 4 1/2 years

> > has said she is much more attentive in group and not as distracted as

> > she was in the past years.She has much difficulty with math but at home

> > she tries so hard and really works hard on her homework. However, I have

> > seen the zoned out inattentive behavior the teachers are talking

> > about-last year(only periodically now),and currently at dance class

> > (which is difficult for her-but she loves it and insists on still

> > dancing).

> >

> > The teachers think she will be lost in the greatly increased

> > independent expectations in a third grade class, even if she goes out

> > for reading and math.They said she is very quiet in the regular clssroom

> > while they are doing science and social studies, and during group

> > reading. Her teacher said she seems kind of spent and just tired and

> > zones out by the end of the day when she is in the regular class for

> > that. They said they think she would " shine " in the special ed class.

> > And she would go to a regular class for social studies and science but

> > there would be less expectations placed on her for projects and reports.

> > I asked why they couldn't do that if she was just in the regular class

> > and went to the resource room for reading and math. Also, they said they

> > think she will start to be picked on because kids start to get that way

> > in third grade. Shea,our daughter, is more imature acting than her

> > peers and her speech makes her sound much younger(more like a three year

> > old).They said the kids in the class now are nice, but they kind of

> > treat her younger and try to help her, but they are worried as she gets

> > older like next year, it can turn mean and Shea will start realizing she

> > is different and comments from kids will hurt her.

> >

> > She has an aide now who hangs back but helps out if needed. The aide is

> > assigned to her but I know they have 2 severe behavior kids in her

> > class room on purpose because they know the aid will be there to help.

> >

> > I would really appreciate anyones inut or experiences. By the way,she LOVES

school. Thanks so much, cheryl

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Every state does 4th grade testing, so they all spend 3rd grade getting ready

for that. We're in NY and we have a school district thats highly regarded for

its high testing scores. Tara is exempt from state testing in her IEP. But that

does not mean she isnt challenged. She's challenged every day by her the goals

on her IEP. As far as friends, even though she is not in the same mainstream

class as all her friends, she's still grown up with all the other 4th graders in

the school. They all know her and love her and theres always another class of

the same grade in the school, unless someone is in a tiny district where theres

one class per grade. So even being in the self-contained class, she's not taken

away from her friends or classmates. They can still all be friends but where

they do their work depends on their individual needs.

>

> As far as state testing that starts in third grade.  Here in land it

seems to be the line in the road.  You can take the regular state test with

accommodations that are on your child's IEP.   If that is too much then there

is the modified state achievement test.  This test has less muliply choice

questions and no constructive writing responses.  It is also given with

accommodations.  Then you have the alternative state achievement test.   Here

in land this is where it all changes!  If you child is taking an

alternative test, which the questions on the test derives from your child's

IEP.  Then this takes them away for the state curriculum.  Which then in turn

takes them off the diploma track!!!  Here in land the child would be

considered an academic life skill child....  In my eyes this is not appropriate

as a child has until they are 21 to reach a high school diploma.  So just

because they might not be doing a skill now doesn't

> mean they will not achieve it at a latter date. 

>

> When we talk about a " self contained " class room there are many different

types that fit that description.  And it is my feeling (for us) that a " self

contained " classroom is the least restrictive environment.  If my son where in

a small classroom with other learners he would learn how to work more

independantly without a 1:1.  The goal is fade the 1:1 not to make a child more

reliant on them.   If a child is in the right small group classroom they can

learn to function in this group and not be an outsider looking in.  Now of

course, everything is a juggling act.  To find a balance where a child is being

taught to their potential and not having the goals " dumped " down, is tricky but

it can be done very successfully too.

> Of course you need to decide what works for your daughter but I have found

to be able to adapt to different situations.  So your child might

surprise you and not be affected by new friends/teachers etc. 

>

> I hope this helps,

> Alyssa

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kate is right, maybe ( if you haven't already done so) now is the time to take

her to a Neuropsychologist. Maybe they can help you determine which setting

would be best.

Alyssa

On Jan 20, 2011, at 7:54 AM, " mykitkate " <mykitkate@...> wrote:

> My son is younger so not an expert in this area but just wanted to ask if

there is a professional that can evaluate your daughter to get their opinion? It

does not make sense that she is doing so well and improved at home and not at

school, so maybe it's them more than her? Again I don't know, but either way

from what you wrote she seems to know what she wants and that is to be with her

class. Maybe talk to her and find out why she does better at home? JMHO Kate

>

>

> > >

> > > This is a very difficult choice and each person has their own strong

opinions. I would like to share my point of view. My son is now in fourth

grade. He has been fully included in general education throughout his

schooling since PK. In the beginning I felt that my son's needs would be best

met in a regular education classroom with a 1:1. As the years went on I have

slowly changed my mind. Each year the the gap gets a bit larger and the

differences are more apparent.  My sons needs still remain high and I feel

that he is loosing out on good strong teaching time consistently taught

throughout his day.  My son does get some pull out with a special education

teacher during the day. When he is in general ed he has a 1:1, who is not an

educator! She is wonderful with my guy but not trained to help him work on

the modified curriculum. I have also noticed that she acts has his

interpreter of the instructional language. As my guy has

> > > expressive and receptive issues. I feel that he would benefit from a

small self contained classroom with his peers, not the peers that the school

feels. He is not benefiting from learning from his " typical " peers at this

time. He is also not having play dates or socials with these children outside

of school. And I strongly feel that he would have this opportunity if he was

with " his " peers. Now for me social is very important but at this time I need

to focus on academics as he is several years below grade level. I feel that

when a child (mine) is spending time in general ed with some pull out there day

is broken up and very inconsistent. If my son was in a classroom all day

working on the curriculum he would have a greater chance of attempting to

close the gap.Â

> > > Your team at school is right, third grade is a big year. The demands

increase and children start to take the state achievement tests. Where we

live this is huge!!! Depending on what kind of test our county offers a

special education student, can mean the difference between diploma bound or

not!Â

> > > I completely think that every case is different and what works for some

children may not work of all.   Hopefully you can work together with your

daughter team and come up with what is best for her. Maybe you can try the

self contained classroom. Hoping there are several others in that class working

as a group.  You can always call an IEP meeting and ask to put her back

into general ed too.

> > > I hope this helps as I am very passionate about this and have many

thoughts and sometimes they all run together when trying to explain. If you

have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

> > >

> > >

> > > *On another note. February 4th will be 1year seizure free since

Matt started NV!!!

> > >

> > >

> > > Alyssa

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: capetalker <capetalker@>

> > >

> > > Sent: Wed, January 19, 2011 12:16:14 PM

> > > Subject: [ ] Self contained class vs. regular with aide

> > >

> > > Much to my dismay we met with our 7 year old daughters teachers

> > > yesterday and they are strongly suggesting she be in the special ed

> > > self contained classroom for next year. She is in a regular second

> > > grade class going out to the resource room for reading and math.She has

> > > an aide.It is a very small group-it has fluctuated between 4 and 6

> > > children. Since the beginning of the school year her classroom teacher

> > > and spec ed teacher, for reading and math, have reported poor focus,lack

> > > of independent working,and sometimes mild resistance to actually doing

> > > the work.It's so frustrating because her reading skills and math

> > > sequencing skills are so inconsistant -great one day with improvement

> > > then messing up sometimes simple counting.. Also, when she is pulled

> > > aside for more individual insruction she resists, saying she wants to

> > > stay with all the kids and do what they are doing.

> > >

> > > On the contrary ,at home I found her focus and concentration very good

> > > and much improved to last year. She also reads better at home, does some

> > > of the new material in math better at home, knows her spelling words

> > > awesome at home, then takes the test at school and messes up. Her speech

> > > pathologist who has worked with her at school for the past 4 1/2 years

> > > has said she is much more attentive in group and not as distracted as

> > > she was in the past years.She has much difficulty with math but at home

> > > she tries so hard and really works hard on her homework. However, I have

> > > seen the zoned out inattentive behavior the teachers are talking

> > > about-last year(only periodically now),and currently at dance class

> > > (which is difficult for her-but she loves it and insists on still

> > > dancing).

> > >

> > > The teachers think she will be lost in the greatly increased

> > > independent expectations in a third grade class, even if she goes out

> > > for reading and math.They said she is very quiet in the regular clssroom

> > > while they are doing science and social studies, and during group

> > > reading. Her teacher said she seems kind of spent and just tired and

> > > zones out by the end of the day when she is in the regular class for

> > > that. They said they think she would " shine " in the special ed class.

> > > And she would go to a regular class for social studies and science but

> > > there would be less expectations placed on her for projects and reports.

> > > I asked why they couldn't do that if she was just in the regular class

> > > and went to the resource room for reading and math. Also, they said they

> > > think she will start to be picked on because kids start to get that way

> > > in third grade. Shea,our daughter, is more imature acting than her

> > > peers and her speech makes her sound much younger(more like a three year

> > > old).They said the kids in the class now are nice, but they kind of

> > > treat her younger and try to help her, but they are worried as she gets

> > > older like next year, it can turn mean and Shea will start realizing she

> > > is different and comments from kids will hurt her.

> > >

> > > She has an aide now who hangs back but helps out if needed. The aide is

> > > assigned to her but I know they have 2 severe behavior kids in her

> > > class room on purpose because they know the aid will be there to help.

> > >

> > > I would really appreciate anyones inut or experiences. By the way,she

LOVES school. Thanks so much, cheryl

> > >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

My son was in self contained class for K and 1 grade. Self contained but pulled

out for mainstream 1/2 day in 2nd. Mainstreamed and pulled from class for

resource room 1/2 day for 3rd, 4th and 5th. Had 1:1 aide also in 3,4 and 5.

The kids are very nice to him, almost protective, to which I am grateful. It

depends on the teacher and the aide on how well your child will do. The self

contained was a class of 10-1-1 to which he " zoned out " too. When I went to

visit he was sad, unattentive and it was very upsetting seeing him this way. I

told the teacher this was not the way my son behaved at home. His whole body

language was slumped over, back towards the teacher. The teacher was

overwhelmed with a K-2 setting. It wasn't her fault, she was a good teacher but

she had a variety of children with severe issues... Autism, Down's Syndrome, my

son has hydrocephalus and has had 3 brain surgeries, ADHD and a child who would

not talk at all, not that he couldn't, just wouldn't he always looked very sad.

I guess what I'm trying to tell you is don't hold your child back because of

your fear, try new things see how they work or don't work. And I might get

blasted for this, but I feel it's true...don't let your child be the highest

functioning child in the class. Yes, your child will shine, but does your child

have a role model? I know the other children need role models too, but your job

is to get the best education for your child, not someone else's. Does that

sound cold? Yes, but like I said your job is for your child's education. My son

is like your child as he loves school and looks forward to it everyday.

Modified assignments work, as well as testing in another room, 1 question per

page so they don't get overwhelmed, proctors reading questions outloud. There

are many accomodations. My son is on course study and hopefully will graduate

with a diploma and maybe surprise me and go on to college. Now I am faced with

a problem too..since he is about 1-2 years behind in different areas, do I hold

him back and let him catch up for a year while his friends move onto the next

grade and middle school or send him to middle school unprepared for 6th grade?

Any help out there?

Hope I helped you a bit,

Lori

[ ] Self contained class vs. regular with aide

Much to my dismay we met with our 7 year old daughters teachers yesterday and

they are strongly suggesting she be in the special ed self contained classroom

for next year. She is in a regular second grade class going out to the resource

room for reading and math.She has an aide.It is a very small group-it has

fluctuated between 4 and 6 children. Since the beginning of the school year her

classroom teacher and spec ed teacher, for reading and math, have reported poor

focus,lack of independent working,and sometimes mild resistance to actually

doing the work.It's so frustrating because her reading skills and math

sequencing skills are so inconsistant -great one day with improvement then

messing up sometimes simple counting.. Also, when she is pulled aside for more

individual insruction she resists, saying she wants to stay with all the kids

and do what they are doing.

On the contrary ,at home I found her focus and concentration very good and much

improved to last year. She also reads better at home, does some of the new

material in math better at home, knows her spelling words awesome at home, then

takes the test at school and messes up. Her speech pathologist who has worked

with her at school for the past 4 1/2 years has said she is much more attentive

in group and not as distracted as she was in the past years.She has much

difficulty with math but at home she tries so hard and really works hard on her

homework. However, I have seen the zoned out inattentive behavior the teachers

are talking about-last year(only periodically now),and currently at dance class

(which is difficult for her-but she loves it and insists on still dancing).

The teachers think she will be lost in the greatly increased independent

expectations in a third grade class, even if she goes out for reading and

math.They said she is very quiet in the regular clssroom while they are doing

science and social studies, and during group reading. Her teacher said she seems

kind of spent and just tired and zones out by the end of the day when she is in

the regular class for that. They said they think she would " shine " in the

special ed class. And she would go to a regular class for social studies and

science but there would be less expectations placed on her for projects and

reports. I asked why they couldn't do that if she was just in the regular class

and went to the resource room for reading and math. Also, they said they think

she will start to be picked on because kids start to get that way in third

grade. Shea,our daughter, is more imature acting than her peers and her speech

makes her sound much younger(more like a three year old).They said the kids in

the class now are nice, but they kind of treat her younger and try to help her,

but they are worried as she gets older like next year, it can turn mean and Shea

will start realizing she is different and comments from kids will hurt her.

She has an aide now who hangs back but helps out if needed. The aide is assigned

to her but I know they have 2 severe behavior kids in her class room on purpose

because they know the aid will be there to help.

I would really appreciate anyones inut or experiences. By the way,she LOVES

school. Thanks so much, cheryl

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

I would like to share my experiences self contained/regular ed.

My daughter is 9, she has cp, low tone and low vision, speech delay.

She was in a self contained class in NJ it

was a mixed class, several grades, terrible!!!!!!!

The aide didn't have a clue, she was for recess in a regular class, she was on

an island, no preparation really terrible.

Now we are in PA in a great school district, it is the opposite. My daughter is

in a regular class for math science, social studies and special. SHe has all A's

for math.

For reading she is with the special ed teacher.

She had to do a presentation not so long ago, she is slower in speeking but she

did it and the class clapped and said oh and wow.

Kids don't mind somebody is different.

The staff is wonderfull, her aide is sweet and smart. She understands my

daughter and we all have great communication.

My daughter needs a lot of help, I do not worrie about not being independent,

that will come. For now the academics are important I think and doing like the

others do.

Every day I get a written report what she did during the day and if she got a

smiley face or not. We try to be proactive and when I hear she is not focused we

do something with it. We all try to understand why she does things and how to

avoid.

Here in 3th grade kids are nice to special needs kids. Nothing at all

mean. There are social workers at school who come in the classes to talk about

things like,everybody is different.

Anyway, I hope I gave a little impression how things for us changed in a

positive way and Cheryl, I think everything depends on the teachers if they are

willing to deal with special needs or not.

Good luck, Eveline.

>

> Much to my dismay we met with our 7 year old daughters teachers yesterday and

they are strongly suggesting she be in the special ed self contained classroom

for next year. She is in a regular second grade class going out to the resource

room for reading and math.She has an aide.It is a very small group-it has

fluctuated between 4 and 6 children. Since the beginning of the school year her

classroom teacher and spec ed teacher, for reading and math, have reported poor

focus,lack of independent working,and sometimes mild resistance to actually

doing the work.It's so frustrating because her reading skills and math

sequencing skills are so inconsistant -great one day with improvement then

messing up sometimes simple counting.. Also, when she is pulled aside for more

individual insruction she resists, saying she wants to stay with all the kids

and do what they are doing.

> On the contrary ,at home I found her focus and concentration very good and

much improved to last year. She also reads better at home, does some of the new

material in math better at home, knows her spelling words awesome at home, then

takes the test at school and messes up. Her speech pathologist who has worked

with her at school for the past 4 1/2 years has said she is much more attentive

in group and not as distracted as she was in the past years.She has much

difficulty with math but at home she tries so hard and really works hard on her

homework. However, I have seen the zoned out inattentive behavior the teachers

are talking about-last year(only periodically now),and currently at dance class

(which is difficult for her-but she loves it and insists on still dancing).

> The teachers think she will be lost in the greatly increased independent

expectations in a third grade class, even if she goes out for reading and

math.They said she is very quiet in the regular clssroom while they are doing

science and social studies, and during group reading. Her teacher said she seems

kind of spent and just tired and zones out by the end of the day when she is in

the regular class for that. They said they think she would " shine " in the

special ed class. And she would go to a regular class for social studies and

science but there would be less expectations placed on her for projects and

reports. I asked why they couldn't do that if she was just in the regular class

and went to the resource room for reading and math. Also, they said they think

she will start to be picked on because kids start to get that way in third

grade. Shea,our daughter, is more imature acting than her peers and her speech

makes her sound much younger(more like a three year old).They said the kids in

the class now are nice, but they kind of treat her younger and try to help her,

but they are worried as she gets older like next year, it can turn mean and Shea

will start realizing she is different and comments from kids will hurt her.

> She has an aide now who hangs back but helps out if needed. The aide is

assigned to her but I know they have 2 severe behavior kids in her class room on

purpose because they know the aid will be there to help.

> I would really appreciate anyones inut or experiences. By the way,she LOVES

school. Thanks so much, cheryl

>

[Guest guest]

I really do appreciate this input.There's something nagging me making me slowly

realize that I want her in the regular ED for me, covincing myself that it's

best for her. I need to overcome the social thoughts I have. I will talk to her

and ask how she would feel switching classes now. If there were ever a switch

from self contained to regular ed or vice versa I'd rather it be this year, I

guess, than third grade because at least all of the staff know her in this

school.(our district is so huge she will be going to a whole different school

with a new principal, case worker etc. for third and fourth grade.Then to

another school for 5th and 6th).

We see Dr. Agin but haven't in 2 yrs. now. My problem with Dr.'s is that they

do standardized testing getting results on how she decided to perform on just

that particular time. It is her " M.O. " -great performance one day and not the

next, or even later that day. So many factors play into it(fatigue,sick and

tired of it,distraction,anxiety ETC.)

We did consider a good neuropschologist last year then never followed through as

I want to make sure we really get someone good with useful recommendations.We

never did find the " good " neuropsychlogist. There really aren't that many out

there.We have spent so much anticipated time waiting for differnt Dr.s then

finding they have nothing really valuable to offer.

IS there a good neuropsychologist in the south jersey, or Philadelphia area

that anyone knows of?We have HORIZON insurance. Dr.Agin has been helpful so far

with her school and class placement. Maybe it's time to go back.

I wrote down the state testing options to have on hand for next year-THANK

YOU!! Cheryl

> > > >

> > > > This is a very difficult choice and each person has their own strong

opinions. I would like to share my point of view. My son is now in fourth

grade. He has been fully included in general education throughout his

schooling since PK. In the beginning I felt that my son's needs would be best

met in a regular education classroom with a 1:1. As the years went on I have

slowly changed my mind. Each year the the gap gets a bit larger and the

differences are more apparent.  My sons needs still remain high and I feel

that he is loosing out on good strong teaching time consistently taught

throughout his day.  My son does get some pull out with a special education

teacher during the day. When he is in general ed he has a 1:1, who is not an

educator! She is wonderful with my guy but not trained to help him work on

the modified curriculum. I have also noticed that she acts has his

interpreter of the instructional language. As my guy has

> > > > expressive and receptive issues. I feel that he would benefit from a

small self contained classroom with his peers, not the peers that the school

feels. He is not benefiting from learning from his " typical " peers at this

time. He is also not having play dates or socials with these children outside

of school. And I strongly feel that he would have this opportunity if he was

with " his " peers. Now for me social is very important but at this time I need

to focus on academics as he is several years below grade level. I feel that

when a child (mine) is spending time in general ed with some pull out there day

is broken up and very inconsistent. If my son was in a classroom all day

working on the curriculum he would have a greater chance of attempting to

close the gap.Â

> > > > Your team at school is right, third grade is a big year. The demands

increase and children start to take the state achievement tests. Where we

live this is huge!!! Depending on what kind of test our county offers a

special education student, can mean the difference between diploma bound or

not!Â

> > > > I completely think that every case is different and what works for some

children may not work of all.   Hopefully you can work together with your

daughter team and come up with what is best for her. Maybe you can try the

self contained classroom. Hoping there are several others in that class working

as a group.  You can always call an IEP meeting and ask to put her back

into general ed too.

> > > > I hope this helps as I am very passionate about this and have many

thoughts and sometimes they all run together when trying to explain. If you

have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > *On another note. February 4th will be 1year seizure free

since Matt started NV!!!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Alyssa

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > From: capetalker <capetalker@>

> > > >

> > > > Sent: Wed, January 19, 2011 12:16:14 PM

> > > > Subject: [ ] Self contained class vs. regular with

aide

> > > >

> > > > Much to my dismay we met with our 7 year old daughters teachers

> > > > yesterday and they are strongly suggesting she be in the special ed

> > > > self contained classroom for next year. She is in a regular second

> > > > grade class going out to the resource room for reading and math.She has

> > > > an aide.It is a very small group-it has fluctuated between 4 and 6

> > > > children. Since the beginning of the school year her classroom teacher

> > > > and spec ed teacher, for reading and math, have reported poor focus,lack

> > > > of independent working,and sometimes mild resistance to actually doing

> > > > the work.It's so frustrating because her reading skills and math

> > > > sequencing skills are so inconsistant -great one day with improvement

> > > > then messing up sometimes simple counting.. Also, when she is pulled

> > > > aside for more individual insruction she resists, saying she wants to

> > > > stay with all the kids and do what they are doing.

> > > >

> > > > On the contrary ,at home I found her focus and concentration very good

> > > > and much improved to last year. She also reads better at home, does some

> > > > of the new material in math better at home, knows her spelling words

> > > > awesome at home, then takes the test at school and messes up. Her speech

> > > > pathologist who has worked with her at school for the past 4 1/2 years

> > > > has said she is much more attentive in group and not as distracted as

> > > > she was in the past years.She has much difficulty with math but at home

> > > > she tries so hard and really works hard on her homework. However, I have

> > > > seen the zoned out inattentive behavior the teachers are talking

> > > > about-last year(only periodically now),and currently at dance class

> > > > (which is difficult for her-but she loves it and insists on still

> > > > dancing).

> > > >

> > > > The teachers think she will be lost in the greatly increased

> > > > independent expectations in a third grade class, even if she goes out

> > > > for reading and math.They said she is very quiet in the regular clssroom

> > > > while they are doing science and social studies, and during group

> > > > reading. Her teacher said she seems kind of spent and just tired and

> > > > zones out by the end of the day when she is in the regular class for

> > > > that. They said they think she would " shine " in the special ed class.

> > > > And she would go to a regular class for social studies and science but

> > > > there would be less expectations placed on her for projects and reports.

> > > > I asked why they couldn't do that if she was just in the regular class

> > > > and went to the resource room for reading and math. Also, they said they

> > > > think she will start to be picked on because kids start to get that way

> > > > in third grade. Shea,our daughter, is more imature acting than her

> > > > peers and her speech makes her sound much younger(more like a three year

> > > > old).They said the kids in the class now are nice, but they kind of

> > > > treat her younger and try to help her, but they are worried as she gets

> > > > older like next year, it can turn mean and Shea will start realizing she

> > > > is different and comments from kids will hurt her.

> > > >

> > > > She has an aide now who hangs back but helps out if needed. The aide is

> > > > assigned to her but I know they have 2 severe behavior kids in her

> > > > class room on purpose because they know the aid will be there to help.

> > > >

> > > > I would really appreciate anyones inut or experiences. By the way,she

LOVES school. Thanks so much, cheryl

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm very surprised that anyone from a school district would talk about how other

kids might be to your daughter as she grows up! that is not information they

should be holding over your head to convince you where she should be for next

year! Like another mom said, the mainstream kids are very protective of my

daughter and so are her aides and therapists she spends her day with. They would

never let it get to the point of letting anyone bother her or let her know that

she's not doing the same work that they might be. The mainstream kids love her.

It just shocks me that they'd hold that over your head!

Where she is next year should be based on performance and testing. A friend of

mine told me she always wants her child to need the most help in the classroom

so he'd get the most attention. One mom mentioned one teacher with one aide and

ten kids? thats a lot! our classes have one special ed teacher with four aides

in each class, so theres lots of help for each group. What would be the ratio of

teachers/aides/students of the self-contained class they want to move her into?

If she'd get lost in there and wont have the help, than push for her own aide

within the self-contained class. There are kids in my daughters class who have

their own aide and is not one of the four aides in the class!

Second grade is normally a triennial year. They should be in the midst of

testing? or maybe its third grade? I know my daughters triennial was done very

recently. all her psychological and therapy evaluations are done again. I know

someone mentioned a Neuropsychologist but a lot of tehm dont take insurance. One

of my daughters doctors suggested we take her to one, but when he found out they

all want $2500 (NYC rates) for a 5-6 hour evaluation, they said the testing by

the school psychologist wold suffice for their needs. I'm sure there are those

that can afford that fee and not have it covered, but at this point in our lives

we cannot. A Ped Neurologist would also be able to help with appropriate

placement and testing. Keep us updated!

Maureen

[Guest guest]

If you're really interested in a Neuropsychologist, I could probably get a name

for you. One of the guys I grew up with, and still stay in close touch with, is

a Neuropsychologist but only for adults. He preactices in NYC/Queens. I asked

him a couple years ago for a Pediatric one and he did give me a name of one in

manhattan. If you're interested and manhattan doesnt work, I could ask him for a

name out in Philadelphia. It was from that Pediatric Neuropsychologist that I

got the $2500 fee!

>

> I really do appreciate this input.There's something nagging me making me

slowly realize that I want her in the regular ED for me, covincing myself that

it's best for her. I need to overcome the social thoughts I have. I will talk to

her and ask how she would feel switching classes now. If there were ever a

switch from self contained to regular ed or vice versa I'd rather it be this

year, I guess, than third grade because at least all of the staff know her in

this school.(our district is so huge she will be going to a whole different

school with a new principal, case worker etc. for third and fourth grade.Then to

another school for 5th and 6th).

> We see Dr. Agin but haven't in 2 yrs. now. My problem with Dr.'s is that they

do standardized testing getting results on how she decided to perform on just

that particular time. It is her " M.O. " -great performance one day and not the

next, or even later that day. So many factors play into it(fatigue,sick and

tired of it,distraction,anxiety ETC.)

> We did consider a good neuropschologist last year then never followed through

as I want to make sure we really get someone good with useful recommendations.We

never did find the " good " neuropsychlogist. There really aren't that many out

there.We have spent so much anticipated time waiting for differnt Dr.s then

finding they have nothing really valuable to offer.

> IS there a good neuropsychologist in the south jersey, or Philadelphia area

that anyone knows of?We have HORIZON insurance. Dr.Agin has been helpful so far

with her school and class placement. Maybe it's time to go back.

[Guest guest]

Yes, when we looked into it a year ago we got a name of someone in philadelphia

who charged somewhere around that $2,500 range. I will let you know if we want

to do that(again Someone who talks to us for an hour and then does testing on

her for a few hours,in my opinion, isn't going to really know alot about the

whole package of who she is and what is best for her.) Although it be time for

the standardized testing to be done at school since she hasn't had it done

since kindergarten. At that time she wouldn't cooperate for some subtests but

because the psychlogist at the school evaluated her the year before, and he

watched her in the classroom, he did some of the testing out of the standard

just to get an idea,which then gave us a truer picture of her capabilities.

Again pediatric neuropsychologists are hard to come by let alone hoping our

insurance will cover it. Thanks for the offer,and i'll let you know if we decide

we need to see one. cheryl

> >

> > I really do appreciate this input.There's something nagging me making me

slowly realize that I want her in the regular ED for me, covincing myself that

it's best for her. I need to overcome the social thoughts I have. I will talk to

her and ask how she would feel switching classes now. If there were ever a

switch from self contained to regular ed or vice versa I'd rather it be this

year, I guess, than third grade because at least all of the staff know her in

this school.(our district is so huge she will be going to a whole different

school with a new principal, case worker etc. for third and fourth grade.Then to

another school for 5th and 6th).

> > We see Dr. Agin but haven't in 2 yrs. now. My problem with Dr.'s is that

they do standardized testing getting results on how she decided to perform on

just that particular time. It is her " M.O. " -great performance one day and not

the next, or even later that day. So many factors play into it(fatigue,sick and

tired of it,distraction,anxiety ETC.)

> > We did consider a good neuropschologist last year then never followed

through as I want to make sure we really get someone good with useful

recommendations.We never did find the " good " neuropsychlogist. There really

aren't that many out there.We have spent so much anticipated time waiting for

differnt Dr.s then finding they have nothing really valuable to offer.

> > IS there a good neuropsychologist in the south jersey, or Philadelphia area

that anyone knows of?We have HORIZON insurance. Dr.Agin has been helpful so far

with her school and class placement. Maybe it's time to go back.

>

[Guest guest]

I totally agree as well about the outside evaluation to seek an opinion on this

area. My son Dakota who has over the years by the school as well as by

neurologists and psychologists and developmental pediatricians been diagnosed

with everything from ADHD to CAPD was an odd case for our school district at

that time.

He was all over the place in class, standing up, talking, noticing the little

black dot on the wall, constantly being yelled at for disrupting the others, was

sent to the school psychologist for testing and he tested at 99th percentile.

He did not qualify for needing any assistance, so they sent him back to class.

As it ended up Dakota is ADHD... and gifted, private evaluations helped with

finding out what his needs were. The IEP was put in place for classroom

strategies for him to help him focus. (this was all before we had the right

dosage of fish oils and years and years prior to NV which for SURE helps ADHD

big time as well) The strategies for sure put in place were that Dakota was to

sit in the front of the room and right next to the teacher's desk or as close as

possible. He was allowed to get up to go to the bathroom when he felt he needed

to get up and move, the teacher developed a signal to Dakota to get his

attention instead of constantly saying his name in front of the class.

The point is that it took many evaluations both through the school and private

and various IEP meetings for all to come to the conclusion of what would be

appropriate. But let me tell you about the horror that went on behind my back as

I didn't even know there were issues at this point. At the time as this was so

long ago and Tanner was at that point the main focus of our time, it wasn't

until another child in his class brought the whole thing to my attention that I

even knew there was a problem. You see, it wasn't his grades. Dakota could go

to class and not pay attention 99 percent of the time, and he still would get

passing or even good grades. And the ADHD didn't affect him in a social way

-Dakota can walk into a room of strangers and make friends with everyone. He's

not only super smart -but very funny too. But what was going on -he never

shared with me -and I shudder knowing what my son went through for this one

year.

Again I didn't know till almost the end of the year (this teacher retired that

year) and he never told me that he was YELLED at every single day. I found out

that not only would this teacher yell at my son -but she would grab his desk and

according to my neighbor's daughter would rip his desk across the room and out

into the hallway where she would make him sit by himself...This was first grade.

The child started kindergarten at 5 and as his birthday is July 30th he was a

baby 5...so she would yell at my 6 year old poor son every day and slide his

desk in anger across the room and out into the hallway.

The other child -Molly, told me that she called the teacher the wicked witch of

the East...by the time I found out again it was toward the end of the school

year. It was the following year that Dakota had the gifted LD classification to

address his ADHD. Boy would an FM system been awesome for him! But back then

so little to help. To start we didn't know about fish oils and NV wasn't even a

dream in Dr. Deepak Chopra's head yet for years later.

Even with the fish oils and awareness it hasn't been a cake walk dealing with

cookie cutter schools that don't understand what gifted learning disabled means

-he is ADHD but he is brilliant. NV changed lots -it just took Dakota and made

a more focused brilliant student than before -but he needs it with fish oils.

Today Dakota is 16 -NV again is amazing for ADHD -but unlike Tanner who can not

take fish oils and no longer regress, Dakota still needs fish oils or his

behavior is off. He attends a special high school that is also a college and

has opted for all college classes. In fact on Tuesday's he goes to school from

8 AM to 8 PM with breaks- but he enjoys it. He wants to design theme parks,

games, but also loves all that is computer based, architectural, and his

teacher's love him now.

So my point is that where you start and where you stay is important and if I

didn't get all the testing for Dakota he could have scooted by as a C student,

bored out of his mind, considered a problem disruptive student -but instead he

today grades higher in some of his tests than the rest of the class including

the actual college kids.

I highly recommend out of district testing, and see what you can get through

insurance, and I like neurodevelopmental exams- not always psych ones.

I would never recommend the self contained classes unless for sure needed (an

not down the road for sure but to start prior to being in them because once in

they WILL belong there is my opinion) because most in that placement are behind

so how could they ever go back to mainstream- it's like the black hole

placement.

Also if she's doing that well at home Cheryl -for sure it may be your teaching

style vs. theirs that she is responding to. Perhaps a different teacher,

teaching style that is more multisensory, educational strategies, placement

instead of self contained is the answer but I'd get that opinion from private

testing from experts you respect- and not just one professional either. Point

is that to me the answer may not just be A or B...what's behind the other doors

to help her??

Read up on the Rosenthal theory as well -it does work both ways. Kids placed in

gifted programs will do better even if they don't belong there. In many cases

unless there are true cognitive deficits which are typically unlikely as the

average is average, whatever is believed about placement gifted or self

contained learning disabled- will end up being correct. Some people think my

son Tanner is different than theirs as he's been mainstreamed since kindergarten

and a great student -but I had to fight to keep him there like crazy you have no

idea. I mean they wanted to put Tanner into a self contained learning disabled

kindergarten placement because he " wouldn't make it " in a mainstream class. And

as the story goes according to his kindergarten teacher he not only " made it'

but " he's the top student in his class " One reason for that -he knew all his

letters and sounds from years of therapy Here's Tanner's history

http://cherab.org/information/familiesrelate/letter.html and from NV which

brought Tanner too up to what can only be described as beyond belief

http://pursuitofresearch.org/the-history-why-nutriiveda-for-therapeutic-use-for-\

autism-apraxia-etc/

Links about Dr. Rosenthal- all should read this that are in any way

dealing with education and students, or therapists, teachers, coaches -but read

if dealing with bosses too...oh just read it!

http://rosenthal.socialpsychology.org/#overview

http://www.pineforge.com/newman4study/resources/rosenthal1.htm

http://www.psych.ucr.edu/faculty/rosenthal/index.html

=====

[Guest guest]

Another thing to consider is that some counties/school districts do NOT have

a " self contained classroom " once children enter middle school. I am a

teacher in land. Our county USED to offer self contained in middle

school but they no longer do. Those children are then placed in a " regular

ed " classroom that has a teacher and a special educator. The ratio can

still be as high as 14:1 or 15:1. Just ask about this before you make your

decision because if your child is put in a self contained classroom in

elementary school but this will not be maintained in middle school then when

do they transition back OUT of the self contained or what else is provided

for them once they enter middle school? Will a 1 to 1 be offered again?

How hard will you have to fight to get this back? What data will there

need to be to support the reinstatement of a 1 to 1 aide?

Do they do the transition from self contained back to regular ed along with

the transition to middle school? This seems like a lot of changes at once

for a child who is struggling.

Just some thoughts...

Noelle

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 7:40 AM, Alyssa Nagy <aw_nagy@...> wrote:

>

>

> As far as state testing that starts in third grade. Here in land it

> seems to be the line in the road. You can take the regular state test with

> accommodations that are on your child's IEP. If that is too much then

> there is the modified state achievement test. This test has less muliply

> choice questions and no constructive writing responses. It is also given

> with accommodations. Then you have the alternative state achievement

> test. Here in land this is where it all changes! If you child is

> taking an alternative test, which the questions on the test derives from

> your child's IEP. Then this takes them away for the state curriculum.

> Which then in turn takes them off the diploma track!!! Here in land the

> child would be considered an academic life skill child.... In my eyes this

> is not appropriate as a child has until they are 21 to reach a high school

> diploma. So just because they might not be doing a skill now doesn't

> mean they will not achieve it at a latter date.

>

> When we talk about a " self contained " class room there are many different

> types that fit that description. And it is my feeling (for us) that a " self

> contained " classroom is the least restrictive environment. If my son where

> in a small classroom with other learners he would learn how to work more

> independantly without a 1:1. The goal is fade the 1:1 not to make a child

> more reliant on them. If a child is in the right small group classroom

> they can learn to function in this group and not be an outsider looking in.

> Now of course, everything is a juggling act. To find a balance where a

> child is being taught to their potential and not having the goals " dumped "

> down, is tricky but it can be done very successfully too.

> Of course you need to decide what works for your daughter but I have found

> to be able to adapt to different situations. So your child might

> surprise you and not be affected by new friends/teachers etc.

>

> I hope this helps,

> Alyssa

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

I have a 12 yr old son who is in 6 th grade. He is mainstreamed in a regular

classroom with a 1:1 individual aide just for him only (In IEP aide is for my

son only and only allowed to work with him when in regular classroom) for

science and social studies,music,Art and PE and lunch ( no aide my himself)

(with another aide in the lunch room with their student on stanby for my son (

Severe oral and verbal Dyspraxia and SID) for speech related issues is very

hard to understand at times.. My sons aide has to pay close attention to the

teacher and his assignments for the aide has to then break down the assignments

and modify them to my sons academic level if able to. This teacher is the

hardest teacher and teaches on a very high level and he does not  have much

experience with children with my sons diagnosis but has been a 6 grade teacher

for 20 plus years ( My son is the only 6 th grader in the resource room this

year and the only one with a full IEP

(ST, OT and academics).My son is actually getting more individual time with

the special ed teacher herself due to he is in with 7 and 8 th graders.  In

grade 6 here they have to switch classes to another teacher in the afternoon

for English and math. So my son switches to the resource room for math and

english. A plus is that I have known my sons teacher since I was in 2nd grade.

Plus I saw him the day before school was to start and he told me he looking

forward to having my son in his class and was excited to work with him. He asked

for my son in his class other wise never would of landed in it. He admited and

the school admited they were not sure if it would work out since he is the

hardest teacher in the whole school and teaches on a very high level. So far my

son loves his class and thinks his teacher is fun.

 

Every year except kindergarten every teacher my son has had so far has requested

my son. They usually work out great and are very excited and eager to work with

him.

 

I found out that my son wa snot in the regular classroom for scienc edue the his

teacher was teaching the metric system they told me he would of been lost (which

is true). I told his teachers that no matter what  he was teaching my son was

to be present during social studies and science even if the lessons were above

his level. Today my son surprised them all in social studies he wanted to do the

assignment the teacher assigned all by himself not modified. he did the

assignment got 5 answers right. His regular teacher was impressed and the aide

was totally floored ( i got a note sent home telling me how proud they were).

Best of all my son was very happy he could do the same assignment at grade 6.

 

I just wanted you to have an example of what a mainstreamed students success

is. My son also has been mainstreamed with this type of program in varying

degrees since kindergarten in varying degrees, My son has trouble staying on

task and staying focused and has trouble attention span is short at times. They

deal with this as it arises. There are some days where my son is not in his

regular class much.

 

I wanted my son in a self contained classtoom in 1 st grade . They would not do

it and that would of meant an out of district placement for our district does

not have one until grade 9 (they just use the resource room for the students who

require one all day, which only a few need). This district is big on

mainstreaming Sped children. All except 4 or 5 are not mainstreamed. Their

reason was that they could educate my son among his peers by modifying his work

to his level, I had huge doubts . They were right though so far they are

educating him and finding out he is very smart and very bright. He has his own

way of learning and is learning some of what his teacher is teaching even though

he is not doing some of the paperwork assignments but he is doing the reports

though about 1/4 of the written and only a few sentences of oral ones. So far

mainstreaming is working out.

 

I wish you luck in your decision. As far as state mandated testing is concerned

my son takes a modified version of one and it is in the IEP that it has to be

modified for him. As far as an actual Diploma at this point thwir goal an dmine

are not the same at all. The end goal is for my son to graduate by 19 with a

high school diploma, It will depend on the credits required to graduate, They on

a credit system very strict in this district.Plus with all the budget cuts here

they may have to rethink that one. As it stand now the class of 2011 will not

graduate with high school diplomas due  to lack of credits they cut some

classes rumor has it.

 

I hope you do not let the school steam roll you into forcing you into a

placement you do not want, In my opinion this is kind of early to be deciding on

next years placement it is January. Here we have about 5 and half months of

school left. Here that decision is a team one . The school i would think needs a

lot more information to base that decision on. Is there a set of criteria? Here

they base everything on a certain set of guidelines set by our state, Then they

adapt it to the child and their needs. There are many alternative testing for

academics out there the school can do themselves (no inxurance or out of pocket

costs). Their are non verbal ones I know i made them use one for my son once .

Their district psychologist can give children these tests. The special Ed

director can sometimes do some of the tests to.

 

Please do not let them use lack of money,budget cuts,etc as an excuse to not

provide your daughter with services. We are a state where education in general

is taking a huge crunch in budget cuts special ed here has been hit badly and

worse is coming in the future.

 

Jeanne and

NH

From: capetalker <capetalker@...>

Subject: [ ] Self contained class vs. regular with aide

Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 1:16 PM

Much to my dismay we met with our 7 year old daughters teachers yesterday and

they are strongly suggesting she be in the special ed self contained classroom

for next year. She is in a regular second grade class going out to the resource

room for reading and math.She has an aide.It is a very small group-it has

fluctuated between 4 and 6 children. Since the beginning of the school year her

classroom teacher and spec ed teacher, for reading and math, have reported poor

focus,lack of independent working,and sometimes mild resistance to actually

doing the work.It's so frustrating because her reading skills and math

sequencing skills are so inconsistant -great one day with improvement then

messing up sometimes simple counting.. Also, when she is pulled aside for more

individual insruction she resists, saying she wants to stay with all the kids

and do what they are doing.

On the contrary ,at home I found her focus and concentration very good and much

improved to last year. She also reads better at home, does some of the new

material in math better at home, knows her spelling words awesome at home, then

takes the test at school and messes up. Her speech pathologist who has worked

with her at school for the past 4 1/2 years has said she is much more attentive

in group and not as distracted as she was in the past years.She has much

difficulty with math but at home she tries so hard and really works hard on her

homework. However, I have seen the zoned out inattentive behavior the teachers

are talking about-last year(only periodically now),and currently at dance class

(which is difficult for her-but she loves it and insists on still dancing).

The teachers think she will be lost in the greatly increased independent

expectations in a third grade class, even if she goes out for reading and

math.They said she is very quiet in the regular clssroom while they are doing

science and social studies, and during group reading. Her teacher said she seems

kind of spent and just tired and zones out by the end of the day when she is in

the regular class for that. They said they think she would " shine " in the

special ed class. And she would go to a regular class for social studies and

science but there would be less expectations placed on her for projects and

reports. I asked why they couldn't do that if she was just in the regular class

and went to the resource room for reading and math. Also, they said they think

she will start to be picked on because kids start to get that way in third

grade. Shea,our daughter, is more imature acting than her peers and her speech

makes her sound much younger(more like a

three year old).They said the kids in the class now are nice, but they kind of

treat her younger and try to help her, but they are worried as she gets older

like next year, it can turn mean and Shea will start realizing she is different

and comments from kids will hurt her.

She has an aide now who hangs back but helps out if needed. The aide is assigned

to her but I know they have 2 severe behavior kids in her class room on purpose

because they know the aid will be there to help.

I would really appreciate anyones inut or experiences. By the way,she LOVES

school. Thanks so much, cheryl

[Guest guest]

What the Neuropsyh's told me is they may be covered by our insurance, but they

wont take the insurance, but they will help with the paperwork! They want to be

paid up front, than its up to the parents to get reimbursed by the insurance

company for whatever percentage they cover. Ugh!!

>

> Again pediatric neuropsychologists are hard to come by let alone hoping our

insurance will cover it. Thanks for the offer,and i'll let you know if we decide

we need to see one. cheryl

>

[Guest guest]

Lori, again as I said to others who have responded to my question they are all

such good points for us to think about ,so good that I feel strongly one way and

then change my mind. We are going to observe the special ed self contained

classrooms next week.The second grade, so we can see what children she will be

with and how the class is run, and to the third grade class which she may be in

next year.

As for retention for your son ,I have heard a big NO from our very astute case

worker at the school for our daughter. I asked her if it was something we should

consider for Shea and she simply said it's been studied over and over saying

there is no proof of any benefit in the long run, and down the road it may have

a negative impact on the child possibly in self esteem, there tends to be an

increased drop- out risk, and academically they may even fall further behind

within a few years after the retention. I never copied and pasted web sites so

I'll try to show the following from articles that our case manager actually gave

us. If you can't get to them I'd be happy to copy them and mail them to you if

you'd like(You could email me your mailing address).here goes with the copy and

pasting!

Ok , it didn't work..i don't know how to copy them as a link for you to just

click on, so I'll ask someone and try to get you the links later , but if you

type in your search for the following articles they will come up:

School Retention: A common Practice but is it Effective?

School and Home Grade Retention and Promotion:Information for Parents

I have another one but when I typed the title it wasn't obvious which article it

was. It's so embarrassing that I can't figure out how to send a link!

Well,thanks again, Cheryl

>

>

> My son was in self contained class for K and 1 grade. Self contained but

pulled out for mainstream 1/2 day in 2nd. Mainstreamed and pulled from class

for resource room 1/2 day for 3rd, 4th and 5th. Had 1:1 aide also in 3,4 and 5.

The kids are very nice to him, almost protective, to which I am grateful. It

depends on the teacher and the aide on how well your child will do. The self

contained was a class of 10-1-1 to which he " zoned out " too. When I went to

visit he was sad, unattentive and it was very upsetting seeing him this way. I

told the teacher this was not the way my son behaved at home. His whole body

language was slumped over, back towards the teacher. The teacher was

overwhelmed with a K-2 setting. It wasn't her fault, she was a good teacher but

she had a variety of children with severe issues... Autism, Down's Syndrome, my

son has hydrocephalus and has had 3 brain surgeries, ADHD and a child who would

not talk at all, not that he couldn't, just wouldn't he always looked very sad.

I guess what I'm trying to tell you is don't hold your child back because of

your fear, try new things see how they work or don't work. And I might get

blasted for this, but I feel it's true...don't let your child be the highest

functioning child in the class. Yes, your child will shine, but does your child

have a role model? I know the other children need role models too, but your job

is to get the best education for your child, not someone else's. Does that

sound cold? Yes, but like I said your job is for your child's education. My son

is like your child as he loves school and looks forward to it everyday.

Modified assignments work, as well as testing in another room, 1 question per

page so they don't get overwhelmed, proctors reading questions outloud. There

are many accomodations. My son is on course study and hopefully will graduate

with a diploma and maybe surprise me and go on to college. Now I am faced with

a problem too..since he is about 1-2 years behind in different areas, do I hold

him back and let him catch up for a year while his friends move onto the next

grade and middle school or send him to middle school unprepared for 6th grade?

Any help out there?

> Hope I helped you a bit,

> Lori

>

>

> [ ] Self contained class vs. regular with aide

>

>

>

>

> Much to my dismay we met with our 7 year old daughters teachers yesterday and

they are strongly suggesting she be in the special ed self contained classroom

for next year. She is in a regular second grade class going out to the resource

room for reading and math.She has an aide.It is a very small group-it has

fluctuated between 4 and 6 children. Since the beginning of the school year her

classroom teacher and spec ed teacher, for reading and math, have reported poor

focus,lack of independent working,and sometimes mild resistance to actually

doing the work.It's so frustrating because her reading skills and math

sequencing skills are so inconsistant -great one day with improvement then

messing up sometimes simple counting.. Also, when she is pulled aside for more

individual insruction she resists, saying she wants to stay with all the kids

and do what they are doing.

> On the contrary ,at home I found her focus and concentration very good and

much improved to last year. She also reads better at home, does some of the new

material in math better at home, knows her spelling words awesome at home, then

takes the test at school and messes up. Her speech pathologist who has worked

with her at school for the past 4 1/2 years has said she is much more attentive

in group and not as distracted as she was in the past years.She has much

difficulty with math but at home she tries so hard and really works hard on her

homework. However, I have seen the zoned out inattentive behavior the teachers

are talking about-last year(only periodically now),and currently at dance class

(which is difficult for her-but she loves it and insists on still dancing).

> The teachers think she will be lost in the greatly increased independent

expectations in a third grade class, even if she goes out for reading and

math.They said she is very quiet in the regular clssroom while they are doing

science and social studies, and during group reading. Her teacher said she seems

kind of spent and just tired and zones out by the end of the day when she is in

the regular class for that. They said they think she would " shine " in the

special ed class. And she would go to a regular class for social studies and

science but there would be less expectations placed on her for projects and

reports. I asked why they couldn't do that if she was just in the regular class

and went to the resource room for reading and math. Also, they said they think

she will start to be picked on because kids start to get that way in third

grade. Shea,our daughter, is more imature acting than her peers and her speech

makes her sound much younger(more like a three year old).They said the kids in

the class now are nice, but they kind of treat her younger and try to help her,

but they are worried as she gets older like next year, it can turn mean and Shea

will start realizing she is different and comments from kids will hurt her.

> She has an aide now who hangs back but helps out if needed. The aide is

assigned to her but I know they have 2 severe behavior kids in her class room on

purpose because they know the aid will be there to help.

> I would really appreciate anyones inut or experiences. By the way,she LOVES

school. Thanks so much, cheryl

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are right! I felt so uncomfortable when they said that,and it was weird

because they know me enough that I am emotional,sensitive and obviously like any

parent wanting to protect their child,but her regular ed teacher said it, then

her speech pathologist AND special ed teacher all nodded their heads and said

yes,we adore her and want to protect her,and she going to start standing out

more and more.

I know now most kids in her class like her(there's ones who just don't pay

attention to her) and like all these other posts Im reading children in their

childrens' classes are kind. I know my 3 older children who are in the top of

their class are nice to the children who need extra help-my 11 year old even

likes the idea of assisting the kids when they are assigned to her group for

group projects. If someone is going to make mean comments they will do it

anywhere.

>

> I'm very surprised that anyone from a school district would talk about how

other kids might be to your daughter as she grows up! that is not information

they should be holding over your head to convince you where she should be for

next year! Like another mom said, the mainstream kids are very protective of my

daughter and so are her aides and therapists she spends her day with. They would

never let it get to the point of letting anyone bother her or let her know that

she's not doing the same work that they might be. The mainstream kids love her.

It just shocks me that they'd hold that over your head!

>

> Where she is next year should be based on performance and testing. A friend of

mine told me she always wants her child to need the most help in the classroom

so he'd get the most attention. One mom mentioned one teacher with one aide and

ten kids? thats a lot! our classes have one special ed teacher with four aides

in each class, so theres lots of help for each group. What would be the ratio of

teachers/aides/students of the self-contained class they want to move her into?

If she'd get lost in there and wont have the help, than push for her own aide

within the self-contained class. There are kids in my daughters class who have

their own aide and is not one of the four aides in the class!

>

> Second grade is normally a triennial year. They should be in the midst of

testing? or maybe its third grade? I know my daughters triennial was done very

recently. all her psychological and therapy evaluations are done again. I know

someone mentioned a Neuropsychologist but a lot of tehm dont take insurance. One

of my daughters doctors suggested we take her to one, but when he found out they

all want $2500 (NYC rates) for a 5-6 hour evaluation, they said the testing by

the school psychologist wold suffice for their needs. I'm sure there are those

that can afford that fee and not have it covered, but at this point in our lives

we cannot. A Ped Neurologist would also be able to help with appropriate

placement and testing. Keep us updated!

> Maureen

>

[Guest guest]

links to articles regarding retention:

http://www.drrobertbrooks.com/pdf/0211.pdf

http://www.nasponline.org/resources/handouts/retentionhandout.pdf

still can't figure out how to hyperlink

>

>

> My son was in self contained class for K and 1 grade. Self contained but

pulled out for mainstream 1/2 day in 2nd. Mainstreamed and pulled from class

for resource room 1/2 day for 3rd, 4th and 5th. Had 1:1 aide also in 3,4 and 5.

The kids are very nice to him, almost protective, to which I am grateful. It

depends on the teacher and the aide on how well your child will do. The self

contained was a class of 10-1-1 to which he " zoned out " too. When I went to

visit he was sad, unattentive and it was very upsetting seeing him this way. I

told the teacher this was not the way my son behaved at home. His whole body

language was slumped over, back towards the teacher. The teacher was

overwhelmed with a K-2 setting. It wasn't her fault, she was a good teacher but

she had a variety of children with severe issues... Autism, Down's Syndrome, my

son has hydrocephalus and has had 3 brain surgeries, ADHD and a child who would

not talk at all, not that he couldn't, just wouldn't he always looked very sad.

I guess what I'm trying to tell you is don't hold your child back because of

your fear, try new things see how they work or don't work. And I might get

blasted for this, but I feel it's true...don't let your child be the highest

functioning child in the class. Yes, your child will shine, but does your child

have a role model? I know the other children need role models too, but your job

is to get the best education for your child, not someone else's. Does that

sound cold? Yes, but like I said your job is for your child's education. My son

is like your child as he loves school and looks forward to it everyday.

Modified assignments work, as well as testing in another room, 1 question per

page so they don't get overwhelmed, proctors reading questions outloud. There

are many accomodations. My son is on course study and hopefully will graduate

with a diploma and maybe surprise me and go on to college. Now I am faced with

a problem too..since he is about 1-2 years behind in different areas, do I hold

him back and let him catch up for a year while his friends move onto the next

grade and middle school or send him to middle school unprepared for 6th grade?

Any help out there?

> Hope I helped you a bit,

> Lori

>

>

> [ ] Self contained class vs. regular with aide

>

>

>

>

> Much to my dismay we met with our 7 year old daughters teachers yesterday and

they are strongly suggesting she be in the special ed self contained classroom

for next year. She is in a regular second grade class going out to the resource

room for reading and math.She has an aide.It is a very small group-it has

fluctuated between 4 and 6 children. Since the beginning of the school year her

classroom teacher and spec ed teacher, for reading and math, have reported poor

focus,lack of independent working,and sometimes mild resistance to actually

doing the work.It's so frustrating because her reading skills and math

sequencing skills are so inconsistant -great one day with improvement then

messing up sometimes simple counting.. Also, when she is pulled aside for more

individual insruction she resists, saying she wants to stay with all the kids

and do what they are doing.

> On the contrary ,at home I found her focus and concentration very good and

much improved to last year. She also reads better at home, does some of the new

material in math better at home, knows her spelling words awesome at home, then

takes the test at school and messes up. Her speech pathologist who has worked

with her at school for the past 4 1/2 years has said she is much more attentive

in group and not as distracted as she was in the past years.She has much

difficulty with math but at home she tries so hard and really works hard on her

homework. However, I have seen the zoned out inattentive behavior the teachers

are talking about-last year(only periodically now),and currently at dance class

(which is difficult for her-but she loves it and insists on still dancing).

> The teachers think she will be lost in the greatly increased independent

expectations in a third grade class, even if she goes out for reading and

math.They said she is very quiet in the regular clssroom while they are doing

science and social studies, and during group reading. Her teacher said she seems

kind of spent and just tired and zones out by the end of the day when she is in

the regular class for that. They said they think she would " shine " in the

special ed class. And she would go to a regular class for social studies and

science but there would be less expectations placed on her for projects and

reports. I asked why they couldn't do that if she was just in the regular class

and went to the resource room for reading and math. Also, they said they think

she will start to be picked on because kids start to get that way in third

grade. Shea,our daughter, is more imature acting than her peers and her speech

makes her sound much younger(more like a three year old).They said the kids in

the class now are nice, but they kind of treat her younger and try to help her,

but they are worried as she gets older like next year, it can turn mean and Shea

will start realizing she is different and comments from kids will hurt her.

> She has an aide now who hangs back but helps out if needed. The aide is

assigned to her but I know they have 2 severe behavior kids in her class room on

purpose because they know the aid will be there to help.

> I would really appreciate anyones inut or experiences. By the way,she LOVES

school. Thanks so much, cheryl

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh Cheryl this may be one of the best studies for your situation! You may want

to print out this PDF and file it!

Long-term Outcomes of Services in Inclusive and Self-Contained Settings for

Siblings with Comparable Significant Disabilities

Education and Training in Autism and Developmental Disabilities, 2010, 45(1),

38–53

© Division on Autism and Developmental Disabilities

Abstract: A major goal of special education services is to prepare graduates for

productive and rewarding lives

as adults in the community. Follow-up studies, however, consistently have

indicated very poor post-school

outcomes for special education graduates. While there has been a wealth of

research related to the effectiveness

of services in inclusive general education settings for students of school age,

few studies have investigated the

impact of inclusive educational services on long-term outcomes for students with

significant disabilities. The

purpose of this study was to describe how two brothers with similar diagnoses

involving significant disabilities

and who had a 10-year age difference functioned in their natural settings as

young adults after receiving

services in the same rural one-building district. The older brother received

special education services in

self-contained settings throughout his school career, while the younger brother

received special education services

in inclusive general education settings. Qualitative data were collected through

records, interviews, and field

notes of observations. Findings suggest that the brother who received special

education services in the school's

inclusive general education settings achieved more positive long-term outcomes.

Implications are discussed for

future research and provision of educational services.

Read entire article (16 pages total)

http://cec.findeight.com/Portals/0/CEC/Autism_Disabilities/Research/Publications\

/Education_Training_Development_Disabilities/2010v45_Journals/ETDD_201003v45n1p0\

38-053_Long-Term_Outcomes_Services_Inclusive_Self-Contained_Siblings.pdf

And if that link doesn't work

http://bit.ly/fFjKSj

=====

[Guest guest]

Thank you Jeanne for this insight- always appreciate your posts!

[ ] Self contained class vs. regular

with aide

<mailto: %40>

Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 1:16 PM

Much to my dismay we met with our 7 year old daughters teachers

yesterday and they are strongly suggesting she be in the special ed self

contained classroom for next year. She is in a regular second grade

class going out to the resource room for reading and math.She has an

aide.It is a very small group-it has fluctuated between 4 and 6

children. Since the beginning of the school year her classroom teacher

and spec ed teacher, for reading and math, have reported poor focus,lack

of independent working,and sometimes mild resistance to actually doing

the work.It's so frustrating because her reading skills and math

sequencing skills are so inconsistant -great one day with improvement

then messing up sometimes simple counting.. Also, when she is pulled

aside for more individual insruction she resists, saying she wants to

stay with all the kids and do what they are doing.

On the contrary ,at home I found her focus and concentration

very good and much improved to last year. She also reads better at home,

does some of the new material in math better at home, knows her spelling

words awesome at home, then takes the test at school and messes up. Her

speech pathologist who has worked with her at school for the past 4 1/2

years has said she is much more attentive in group and not as distracted

as she was in the past years.She has much difficulty with math but at

home she tries so hard and really works hard on her homework. However, I

have seen the zoned out inattentive behavior the teachers are talking

about-last year(only periodically now),and currently at dance class

(which is difficult for her-but she loves it and insists on still

dancing).

The teachers think she will be lost in the greatly increased

independent expectations in a third grade class, even if she goes out

for reading and math.They said she is very quiet in the regular clssroom

while they are doing science and social studies, and during group

reading. Her teacher said she seems kind of spent and just tired and

zones out by the end of the day when she is in the regular class for

that. They said they think she would " shine " in the special ed class.

And she would go to a regular class for social studies and science but

there would be less expectations placed on her for projects and reports.

I asked why they couldn't do that if she was just in the regular class

and went to the resource room for reading and math. Also, they said they

think she will start to be picked on because kids start to get that way

in third grade. Shea,our daughter, is more imature acting than her peers

and her speech makes her sound much younger(more like a

three year old).They said the kids in the class now are nice,

but they kind of treat her younger and try to help her, but they are

worried as she gets older like next year, it can turn mean and Shea will

start realizing she is different and comments from kids will hurt her.

She has an aide now who hangs back but helps out if needed. The

aide is assigned to her but I know they have 2 severe behavior kids in

her class room on purpose because they know the aid will be there to

help.

I would really appreciate anyones inut or experiences. By the

way,she LOVES school. Thanks so much, cheryl

[Guest guest]

, neither link will open for us-do you have another way for us to access

them? Thank you! Also,In your opinion do you think our dr. we've used in the

past is going to provide the info. and evaluation we need in this situation or

again knowing other types of dr.s, in your opinion, should we explore other

specialists? Thanks for your post regarding your experiences with Dakota. I

never knew any of that. That teacher is truly evil! I shudder picturing the

situation. What a strong little guy!

>

> Oh Cheryl this may be one of the best studies for your situation! You may

want to print out this PDF and file it!

>

> Long-term Outcomes of Services in Inclusive and Self-Contained Settings for

Siblings with Comparable Significant Disabilities

>

> Education and Training in Autism and Developmental Disabilities, 2010, 45(1),

38–53

> © Division on Autism and Developmental Disabilities

>

> Abstract: A major goal of special education services is to prepare graduates

for productive and rewarding lives

> as adults in the community. Follow-up studies, however, consistently have

indicated very poor post-school

> outcomes for special education graduates. While there has been a wealth of

research related to the effectiveness

> of services in inclusive general education settings for students of school

age, few studies have investigated the

> impact of inclusive educational services on long-term outcomes for students

with significant disabilities. The

> purpose of this study was to describe how two brothers with similar diagnoses

involving significant disabilities

> and who had a 10-year age difference functioned in their natural settings as

young adults after receiving

> services in the same rural one-building district. The older brother received

special education services in

> self-contained settings throughout his school career, while the younger

brother received special education services

> in inclusive general education settings. Qualitative data were collected

through records, interviews, and field

> notes of observations. Findings suggest that the brother who received special

education services in the school's

> inclusive general education settings achieved more positive long-term

outcomes. Implications are discussed for

> future research and provision of educational services.

>

> Read entire article (16 pages total)

>

http://cec.findeight.com/Portals/0/CEC/Autism_Disabilities/Research/Publications\

/Education_Training_Development_Disabilities/2010v45_Journals/ETDD_201003v45n1p0\

38-053_Long-Term_Outcomes_Services_Inclusive_Self-Contained_Siblings.pdf

>

> And if that link doesn't work

> http://bit.ly/fFjKSj

>

>

> =====

>