Re: NV/Detox/Nervousness... A thought/question

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I am just curious based on posts I've read, and there's something I've been

thinking that I am curious about and wanted to share.

I am a psychiatric social worker, and so I've been intriqued by the instances of

nervousness/hyperactivity that some people experience when starting NV.

While it is very possible that a detox process could be going on, another idea

occurred to me based on my work. It also sounds like the dose has to be

titrated (gradually increased)to minimize these side effects in the beginning

until the body acclimates to it.

Assuming that the supplements in NV are creating a neurochemical change of some

kind in the brain, hence the improvements some are seeing, I started wondering

if it's similar to what some of my clients experience when they first start

taking SSRI antidepressants in the sense that there are initial side effects

until the body and brain get used to it. Initially some people feel very

nervous or " spacey " on SSRI's until their bodies get used to them. Sometimes

the dose is started low and gradually increased to a working level so that

people have fewer side effects in the beginning. Some people are sensitive

enough to certain SSRI's that they never stop feeling nervous/agitated or

spacey/without motivation and have to switch to another. I became more curious

about this possibility when I read in another post that a Zrii representative

said that rarely some people experience nervousness with one of the ingredients

(perhaps children, being smaller, are more likely to react, especially in the

beginning until their brains acclimate to the product?)

Then it made me wonder if the regression people have observed when it's stopped

suddenly could be a withdrawal process in addition to stopping the NV, which may

be working for the child. Many SSRI Antidepressants have this type of effect as

well - drug companies prefer to call it a " discontinuation syndrome " rather than

" withdrawal " because there is no tolerance (needing a higher dose to get the

same effect) associated with SSRI's.

The initial side effects sound very similar to my clients who take things

affecting the seretonergic system in the brain.

Again while these symptoms could be a detox process, it could also be an

acclimation process as well that requires titrating the dose to start and

weaning off if on for a period of time. While these are food supplements and

not considered a " drug " , it is the combination of these ingredients that make

aryuvedic medicine a form of medication that is used to treat illnesses.

Similar to the idea that St. 's Wort, a naturally occurring supplement, is a

mild MAOI Antidepressant.

Just thought I would share this perspective. Does Zrii state which

neurochemicals in the brain they think NV impacts/works on? Seretonin?

Norepinephrine? Dopamine?

Take Care,

Diane

>

> I suspect it's detox also. Man, I had no idea it would be so painful. I have

a 27 oz klean kanteen and my goal is 4 a day. I made it most days. I just got

a call from the lady at Zrii. She said it sounds like classic detox, and that

some people are more sensitive or need to detox more and so it is harder. She

said it usually takes 7-14 days. She also said to cut back and take it more

slowly. So I was taking 2 scoops once a day, she recommended one scoop twice a

day, continue drinking water and after 5-7 days up to 1 1/2 scoops and work up.

She said sometimes a person will have a sensitivity to one of the botanicals and

that can cause nervousness, but not so much the aching in the muscles and

joints. She said if I am sensitive to one of the ingredients as I increase the

dosage, the nervous energy and brain fog will increase. She said that is pretty

rare though. I'm going to give it a try.

>

> Thanks for the heads up about protein, I had actually cut back on protein b/c

I wasn't very hungry and I don't eat that much to begin with. I'll be sure to

have one protein rich meal (my husband will love that)

> Liralen

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow thank you so much for this incredible perspective Diane! I for sure will

call on Monday to get their perspective on this.

Nutriiveda was not created to help neurological issues, it was created to help

nourish and detox the body and support the metabolic system using foods in a 100

percent natural way. You are correct in that the nutrients are all from the

foods. And each ingredient is certified as a food.

Here are the ingredients/foods that supply all the nutrients:

Ingredients: Whey Protein Isolates, Rice Life powder

(Brown Rice), Natural Cocoa Powder, Apple Fiber, Organic Cane Sugar, Proprietary

Ayurvedic Blend, Xanthan Gum, Stevia, L-Taurine, L-Theanine

And the above is it. The nutritional panel makes it looks like there were

various vitamins added when all are the natural form of the vitamins found in

food. This is why I stress the importance of sharing with nutritional

professionals or medical professionals such as yourself who have knowledge about

nutrition. Dietary changes to affect illness including neurological ones may

appear miraculous and new, but in fact have been well known for thousands of

years -bringing us back to ayurveda a 5000 year old natural medicine.

Complete list of all the essential amino acids found in the protein and the

Proprietary Ayurvedic Blend can be found here

http://pursuitofresearch.org/ingredients.html While many of us may not be

familiar with all the ingredients listed which are used frequently in ayurveda,

those members of our group from India have reported that these are all well

known foods found in any kitchen and used daily in India.

While the regression off seems to be across the board -the reactions when first

on by close to 100 percent is reported as increased focus and energy and just a

general " great " feeling. The reports by the parents Liralin and Cheryl are the

rare exception not the rule so not sure how that would configure as perhaps

either or both are allergic/have sensitivity to to one of the foods in the

product -or again going through detox. Liralin and Cheryl -would you guys

mind updating us again when possible?

About the detox there are a few foods in nutriiveda that help with that and the

main one is probably whey isolate protein. A growing body of research suggests

that many of the chemicals we ingest daily through food, water, and air can

become deposited in fat cells in our bodies. A diet that lacks certain nutrients

may also impair our natural ability to detoxify chemicals, which further leads

to their build-up in the body. Drugs.com has information on the pharmaceutical

grade version of whey isolate protein which is the virtually 100 percent whey

protein, rich in all the essential amino acids and most easily digestible by the

body. The version of whey in nutriiveda would be difficult to impossible to

find at a local store- and online if one tried to purchase a similar version

it's very expensive -I still have to do the math but believe more expensive than

nutriiveda. To be 100 percent gluten casein free and not made with chemicals

protects the protein and all the essential amino acids. Not sure if this

version is as pure -but it appears to be close

http://www.drugs.com/pdr/whey-protein-isolate.html

Here are just two of the reasons this one food is linked to supporting and now

repairing neuro function:

" With Amino Acid Diet, Mice Improve After Brain Injury

Monday, December 7, 2009

Neurology researchers have shown that feeding amino acids to brain-injured

animals restores their cognitive abilities and may set the stage for the first

effective treatment for cognitive impairments suffered by people with traumatic

brain injuries.

“We have shown in an animal model that dietary intervention can restore a

proper balance of neurochemicals in the injured part of the brain, and

simultaneously improves cognitive performance,†said study leader Akiva S.

Cohen, Ph.D., a neuroscientist at The Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.

Although physicians can relieve the dangerous swelling that occurs after a TBI,

there are currently no treatments for the underlying brain damage that brings in

its wake cognitive losses in memory, learning and other functions.

The animals in the current study received a cocktail of three branched chain

amino acids (BCAAs), specifically leucine, isoleucine and valine, in their

drinking water. Previous researchers had shown that people with severe brain

injuries showed mild functional improvements after receiving BCAAs through an

intravenous line.

(and eeeek here's the horrible part of the study- poor little mice!!!)

In this study, Cohen’s study team first created standardized brain injuries in

mice, and one week later compared the animals’ conditioned fear response to

that of uninjured mice. A week after receiving a mild electric shock in a

specific cage, normal mice tend to “freeze†when placed in the same cage,

anticipating another shock. The brain-injured mice demonstrated fewer freezing

responses� " a sign that they had partially lost that piece of learning.

On the other hand, brain-injured mice that received a diet of BCAAs showed the

same normal response as the uninjured mice. The BCAA cocktail had restored their

learning ability.

In addition to the behavioral results, the team conducted electrophysiological

experiments in slices of hippocampus from brain-injured and non-injured mice,

and showed that BCAA restored a normal balance of neural activity. “The

electrophysiological results were consistent with what we saw in the animals’

functional recovery,†said Cohen.

If the results in mice can be reproduced in people, patients with traumatic

brain injuries could receive the BCAAs in a drink. Cohen suggests that BCAAs as

a dietary supplement could have a more sustained, measured benefit than that

seen when patients receive BCAAs intravenously, in which the large IV dose may

flood brain receptors and have more limited benefits.

The National Institutes of Health provided funding for this study. Cohen’s

co-authors were Cole, Ph.D., M. Mitala, Ph.D., Suhali Kundu

and Itzhak Nissim, Ph.D., all of Children’s Hospital; Jaclynn A. Elkind of the

University of Pennsylvania; and Ajay Verma, M.D., Ph.D., of the Uniformed

Services University of the Health Sciences, Bethesda, Md. Cohen and Nissim are

also on the faculty of the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine. "

http://www.sflorg.com/comm_center/medical/p974_99.html

And whey isolate protein is well known to greatly raise naturally glutathione

which once again is far superior to man made versions of attempting to raise

glutathione

Glutathione has multiple functions:

1. It is the major endogenous antioxidant produced by the cells,

participating directly in the neutralization of free radicals and reactive

oxygen compounds, as well as maintaining exogenous antioxidants such as vitamins

C and E in their reduced (active) forms.

2. Through direct conjugation, it detoxifies many xenobiotics (foreign

compounds) and carcinogens, both organic and inorganic.

3. It is essential for the immune system to exert its full potential, e.g.

(1) modulating antigen presentation to lymphocytes, thereby influencing cytokine

production and type of response (cellular or humoral) that develops, (2)

enhancing proliferation of lymphocytes thereby increasing magnitude of response,

(3) enhancing killing activity of cytotoxic T cells and NK cells, and (4)

regulating apoptosis, thereby maintaining control of the immune response.

4. It plays a fundamental role in numerous metabolic and biochemical

reactions such as DNA synthesis and repair, protein synthesis, prostaglandin

synthesis, amino acid transport and enzyme activation. Thus, every system in the

body can be affected by the state of the glutathione system, especially the

immune system, the nervous system, the gastrointestinal system and the lungs.

What I have seen a parallel with are the essential fatty acids- the fish oils.

The almost immediate surges on as well as the almost immediate regressions off

parallel the addition of essential fatty acids. The one clear difference is

that with nutriiveda we are getting reports of actual regressions even while

still on the product but cut into a half dosage. So nutriiveda we know is

dosage dependent.

It's my understanding that when we add foods to the body and the nutrients are

the " L " or natural form -the reactions do not parallel man made versions. This

is why we are all encouraged to find natural forms of nutrients vs the man made.

A good example would be the reported blood thinning attribute of fish oil or

aspirin. That may make them sound the same but from the PhDs I've spoken to the

difference is that the natural version will happen " if needed " while in the man

made version regardless.

While even here we caution parents who have a child going through any surgery to

stop fish oil supplementation a week prior to surgery -in research there have

been no cases of hemorrhaging in patients who had to go through emergency open

heart surgery even when the patient was on mega dosages of the fish oils. The

same can not hold true for man made versions. Here is some info on this from

the archives:

Harvard doctor Stoll MD in the book The Omega 3 Connection that Omega 3's

are a natural blood thinner and unlike aspirin will work with what the body

needs or doesn't, and at websites such as the following -that " There is a

long-standing myth that omega-3s cause bleeding. We have used data from 18,000

or 20,000 patients who were in clinical trials over the years-mostly in heart

disease, and there is not one case of bleeding from omega-3s " " Q: Is the omega-3

therapy safe for people on blood thinners or high doses of aspirin? A: There is

a long-standing myth that omega-3s cause bleeding. We have used data from 18,000

or 20,000 patients who were in clinical trials over the years-mostly in heart

disease, and there is not one case of bleeding from omega-3s.

When you ask " Does Zrii state which neurochemicals in the brain they think NV

impacts/works on? Seretonin? Norepinephrine? Dopamine? " That I will check

out as again the doctors have to answer that and while they are aware of what we

are reporting in this group as I'm on the phone with the company almost daily

-there is no official response other than that there will be no hesitation to

research what is being reported. I know there could be others but found one

substance which could balance low levels of neurotransmitters as you mentioned.

Nutriiveda does contain natural cocoa powder

ChocolateFood or Drug?

Journal of the American Dietetic Association, Volume 99, Issue 10, Pages

1249-1256

K. BRUINSMA, D. TAREN

Abstract

Although addictive behavior is generally associated with drug and alcohol abuse

or compulsive sexual activity, chocolate may evoke similar psychopharmacologic

and behavioral reactions in susceptible persons. A review of the literature on

chocolate cravings indicates that the hedonic appeal of chocolate (fat, sugar,

texture, and aroma) is likely to be a predominant factor in such cravings. Other

characteristics of chocolate, however, may be equally as important contributors

to the phenomena of chocolate cravings. Chocolate may be used by some as a form

of self-medication for dietary deficiencies (eg, magnesium) or to balance low

levels of neurotransmitters involved in the regulation of mood, food intake, and

compulsive behaviors (eg, serotonin and dopamine). J Am Diet Assoc. 1999;99:

1249� " 1256.

The reason I bring up chocolate Diane is that I do believe to me and many I have

spoken to there appears to be the same craving for this product as we used to

have for sweets and junk food. My cravings now other than for nutriiveda are

for foods -any foods- sushi, asian salads, pistachio nuts, and my most recent

favorite is fresh sliced turkey from Dietz and

http://www.dietzandwatson.com on Kashi bruschetta crachers- OMG love it

http://www.kashi.com/products/tlc_party_crackers_mediterranean_bruschetta

I was just at a party last night and there were all kinds of sweets and

appetizer foods -the kind I used to get a plate and eat. I saw everything but I

felt full -so it's not even willpower -it's that I have no desire to eat the

things I used to crave and look forward to. I can tell you that feeling I'm

sharing is not unique to me and other adults- we are hearing this from parents.

My son Tanner is craving only healthy foods too -and I am in complete and total

awe as to who he has become as a person. This product is life changing and it's

no doubt to me that the effect does appear to be that of some sort of drug. But

then again love is like a natural drug too.

And just like the natural vs man made -what I find of great interest is that

this very product that curbs appetite towards just healthy foods for those that

need to shed a few pounds -this very same product is reported to increase and

stimulate appetite for those that need to gain. I'm not sure if she wants me to

share her name but one of the doctors I spoke with the other day who is seeing

the surges in her patients on this told me " This is a GREAT product and the

nutritional panel is excellent. It's difficult to get these type of nutrients

into these kiddos and the synergistic blend of the ingredients will stabilize

the metabolic system to help those that need to gain weight or lose weight. The

one problem is trying to educate some of these parents that you can give a whey

product to

a child that is casein free -most don't understand there is such a thing "

Like this one call I am getting calls from mainly medical professionals that

parents here are sharing nutriiveda with to get permission to use. I'm sure

this can all be easily documented if one wanted professional anecdotal feedback.

We do have the parent feedback survey here

http://pursuitofresearch.org/pursuit.html and Barbara of Help Me Speak in

land has expressed an interest in organizing the SLPs in doing a

professional anecdotal feedback for the SLPs.

I will call the company on Monday but I am guessing that only time and research

will answer our questions -until the best thing to do as always is share all

with your child's doctor/your doctor and make sure you are well hydrated. The

rest just happens. We are fortunate to have leading medical doctors Dr. Deepak

Chopra and Dr. Simon behind it whom I am sure have their theories but we

may not know the " why " until after research. I know from another well known

medical doctor who will be leading our PUFA research that no credible researcher

will be blogging their theories on a grouplist -they'll just do the research.

So it may take some time but again will see what info I can get back.

But the question is -if we found this same effect from Carnation Instant

Breakfast -would there be a fear of it? Of course not. It would however be fun

to do a double blind study CIB vs NV

I find the whole thing just a blessing that I got to get nutriiveda- this (what

I consider to be a) cure into my son Tanner now and all the incredible surges

it's had on him. Again all that know him from family to professionals are

" blown away " The feeling in my gut is one of pure happiness.

I know this isn't complete as I continue to learn more -but just in case you

have not read " parent theories " I have them on the site here.

http://pursuitofresearch.org/science.html

Diane have you tried nutriiveda yet yourself for you or your child?

=====