Free ABA workshop

[Guest guest]

I attended a free ABA workshop last weekend that was great. It was a teacher

workshop provided by www.thefate.org and it was open to parents, SLPs,

caregivers, etc. They offer these workshops in NJ and FL. Speaker

Caffey was terrific. He showed case studies for developmentally delayed kids

from preschool age to 12-years-old. I would definitely recommend it to all

parents who are looking for a new strategy to get their children to communicate,

who have kids in schools that are using ABA or are in need of an education (that

would be me!). I came out of it enlightened, excited and hopeful! Some content

of the teacher's workshop is located under the " Teacher's Resources " tab on

their website.

[Guest guest]

While it's wonderful that they are providing free ABA workshops for those that

need it, I particularly want to know if they made it clear what type of

" developmentally delayed " 2 to 12 year old this therapy was appropriate for?

As we know through this group from members here over the years, as well as if

you do a quick search on Google -ABA therapy is not the automatic therapy of

choice for developmentally delayed children -and in fact this is the first time

I'm hearing this. It's not only inappropriate therapy for a child say that has

apraxia but it can be detrimental and lead to secondary to the original

diagnosis behavioral problems due to frustrations to even psychological

disorders such as post traumatic stress.

So before I go on as I have many examples and much information in this area-

please let us know that they were clear that this approach is NOT appropriate

for all children that may have communication delays. In fact the only one I

know it for sure is appropriate for is for those with autism.

If however a child has autism and apraxia or some other underlying speech

impairment, then the ABA therapist should be aware of this and it should be

modified ABA and even then it is only appropriate if that form of therapy only

addresses those areas that are not affected by motor planning or other physical

impairments. While some therapies may be a waste of time or money because they

are inappropriate for that individual's needs due to their disability,

impairment, physical or psychological -ABA is the only I know that can be

detrimental -and the only I know that is linked to in a few cases charges of

child abuse.

We have a family that is a member of this group and you can find the story a few

years back in the archives who's therapist for their apraxic child was put in

jail for the therapy and the therapist used as defense the therapy. How did

they know? They had a teddy cam that captured the therapy of her putting a bag

over the apraxic child's head, pulling his hair, slapping and pinching him etc.

Another ABA therapist that used the therapy approach as defense is convicted and

serving jail time for a much more severe crime than child abuse - may want to

google Bott-Graham also used the therapy as her defense and I believe

is still in jail for the murder of a 4 year old autistic child named Cameron.

What really pisses me off is that this woman had a history of being charged with

abuse even prior to Cameron's murder and yet was still employed.

I know that ABA can be very good and is provided by some excellent therapists.

I am fully aware that even though this therapy started with electroshock

negative behavioral methods that today more positive reinforcements are used.

But positive can be cruel too when the child isn't able to perform the command.

In preschool, my son was the innocent victim of the ABA approach used for my son

(back then they didn't believe in " apraxia " ) My son one day took his socks and

shoes off for OT, but the next when he didn't do it they assumed he was " being

manipulative " and the therapist said nobody was to help him. He sat on the

floor and cried during OT -a child who could not talk and ask for help. And

then he sat on the floor and cried while all the other children had the special

snack. He was talked to a few times and told that " if you take your socks and

shoes off you can have the snack with the rest of the children "

They let my son sit on the floor and cry " ma " for HOURS. When I picked him up

from preschool his face was puffy and his voice was hoarse and he just kept

saying " ma " " ma " " ma " sounding like a frog. That was one of his only words at

that time. I only found out exactly what happened because the preschool

teacher herself told me in vivid detail to inform me " just how manipulative " all

these school professionals found my son to be -and that I was to " not give in to

his demands or I would be making their job more difficult " . I took my son right

to Dr. Trevor DeSouza who we have spoken about in this group -a neurologist from

town NJ who put in writing that it was " inappropriate to punish a child

with a motor planning impairment " and explained that with a motor planning

impairment you may be able to do something one time and not again, or you may

not be able to do it on command. He ended by saying to give my son Tanner " the

benefit of the doubt " Do you know the school professionals at first didn't

accept that note from this neurologist either?!! The one OT said to me " Oh

please. If there was something neurologically wrong with Tanner we would know "

And I said " Well I don't know, but then again I'm not a neurologist "

Yes I got my son put into out of district placement soon after that at the

Summit Speech School -but some parents may view this therapy as wonderful. So I

have personal reasons outside of knowing stories about the downsides of this

therapy if misused- again even if used with " positive " reinforcements.

Proceed with caution with ABA. Too many kids today are misdiagnosed with

autism. Know if it's needed before being sucked into free warm fuzzy workshops

because there are quite a few parents who could put together a nightmare

workshop with photos of children who this therapy hurt of what can go wrong with

this therapy if not needed and not done appropriately.

I am fully aware there are bad everything in the world -teachers, therapists,

doctors etc...but this is the only therapy that even when done 'right' can be

very wrong if not needed -so proceed with caution. I can get statements in

writing from respected PhD speech professionals about this too.

We have had at least one mom in this group who has an autistic child who is an

ABA therapist that wrote some words on this worth archiving which I can find if

wanted -and all that have been members here over the past decade know my

feelings -I'm not anti ABA -but I am also not going to say " try it " like I would

for saying cranial sacral therapy which may be beneficial or may not be- but it

won't hurt the child.

But again you are only sharing your personal experience and you just may not

have made clear what they did make clear -and I do hope that is the case. But

just in case they didn't- I will at least here.

=====

[Guest guest]

Nobody has ever suggested aba therapy for our son. He has apraxia. Kate

>

> While it's wonderful that they are providing free ABA workshops for those that

need it, I particularly want to know if they made it clear what type of

" developmentally delayed " 2 to 12 year old this therapy was appropriate for?

>

> As we know through this group from members here over the years, as well as if

you do a quick search on Google -ABA therapy is not the automatic therapy of

choice for developmentally delayed children -and in fact this is the first time

I'm hearing this. It's not only inappropriate therapy for a child say that has

apraxia but it can be detrimental and lead to secondary to the original

diagnosis behavioral problems due to frustrations to even psychological

disorders such as post traumatic stress.

>

> So before I go on as I have many examples and much information in this area-

please let us know that they were clear that this approach is NOT appropriate

for all children that may have communication delays. In fact the only one I

know it for sure is appropriate for is for those with autism.

>

> If however a child has autism and apraxia or some other underlying speech

impairment, then the ABA therapist should be aware of this and it should be

modified ABA and even then it is only appropriate if that form of therapy only

addresses those areas that are not affected by motor planning or other physical

impairments. While some therapies may be a waste of time or money because they

are inappropriate for that individual's needs due to their disability,

impairment, physical or psychological -ABA is the only I know that can be

detrimental -and the only I know that is linked to in a few cases charges of

child abuse.

>

> We have a family that is a member of this group and you can find the story a

few years back in the archives who's therapist for their apraxic child was put

in jail for the therapy and the therapist used as defense the therapy. How did

they know? They had a teddy cam that captured the therapy of her putting a bag

over the apraxic child's head, pulling his hair, slapping and pinching him etc.

>

> Another ABA therapist that used the therapy approach as defense is convicted

and serving jail time for a much more severe crime than child abuse - may want

to google Bott-Graham also used the therapy as her defense and I

believe is still in jail for the murder of a 4 year old autistic child named

Cameron. What really pisses me off is that this woman had a history of being

charged with abuse even prior to Cameron's murder and yet was still employed.

>

> I know that ABA can be very good and is provided by some excellent therapists.

I am fully aware that even though this therapy started with electroshock

negative behavioral methods that today more positive reinforcements are used.

But positive can be cruel too when the child isn't able to perform the command.

In preschool, my son was the innocent victim of the ABA approach used for my son

(back then they didn't believe in " apraxia " ) My son one day took his socks and

shoes off for OT, but the next when he didn't do it they assumed he was " being

manipulative " and the therapist said nobody was to help him. He sat on the

floor and cried during OT -a child who could not talk and ask for help. And

then he sat on the floor and cried while all the other children had the special

snack. He was talked to a few times and told that " if you take your socks and

shoes off you can have the snack with the rest of the children "

>

> They let my son sit on the floor and cry " ma " for HOURS. When I picked him up

from preschool his face was puffy and his voice was hoarse and he just kept

saying " ma " " ma " " ma " sounding like a frog. That was one of his only words at

that time. I only found out exactly what happened because the preschool

teacher herself told me in vivid detail to inform me " just how manipulative " all

these school professionals found my son to be -and that I was to " not give in to

his demands or I would be making their job more difficult " . I took my son right

to Dr. Trevor DeSouza who we have spoken about in this group -a neurologist from

town NJ who put in writing that it was " inappropriate to punish a child

with a motor planning impairment " and explained that with a motor planning

impairment you may be able to do something one time and not again, or you may

not be able to do it on command. He ended by saying to give my son Tanner " the

benefit of the doubt " Do you know the school professionals at first didn't

accept that note from this neurologist either?!! The one OT said to me " Oh

please. If there was something neurologically wrong with Tanner we would know "

And I said " Well I don't know, but then again I'm not a neurologist "

>

> Yes I got my son put into out of district placement soon after that at the

Summit Speech School -but some parents may view this therapy as wonderful. So I

have personal reasons outside of knowing stories about the downsides of this

therapy if misused- again even if used with " positive " reinforcements.

>

> Proceed with caution with ABA. Too many kids today are misdiagnosed with

autism. Know if it's needed before being sucked into free warm fuzzy workshops

because there are quite a few parents who could put together a nightmare

workshop with photos of children who this therapy hurt of what can go wrong with

this therapy if not needed and not done appropriately.

>

> I am fully aware there are bad everything in the world -teachers, therapists,

doctors etc...but this is the only therapy that even when done 'right' can be

very wrong if not needed -so proceed with caution. I can get statements in

writing from respected PhD speech professionals about this too.

>

> We have had at least one mom in this group who has an autistic child who is an

ABA therapist that wrote some words on this worth archiving which I can find if

wanted -and all that have been members here over the past decade know my

feelings -I'm not anti ABA -but I am also not going to say " try it " like I would

for saying cranial sacral therapy which may be beneficial or may not be- but it

won't hurt the child.

>

> But again you are only sharing your personal experience and you just may not

have made clear what they did make clear -and I do hope that is the case. But

just in case they didn't- I will at least here.

>

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with I have had mny share of issues with the school trying doing

the same thign to my son but ontop of it my son has apraxia but has sensory and

auditory processing 

he a sensory seek child we use alertprogram.com and relaxkids.com i have styed

far away from aba since they casued my son stress and anxiety  issues

kids with sensory alot of times get told aba works but no way  i have researched

and found what works for us the alertprogram.com and relaxkids has helped my son

so much 

i just think alot of times those aba people go overboat  and don't see the child

may have systems of other things like stress anxiety  apraixa or evne sensory

processing  i have found a good team of ot  speech  that has helped my son by

far and they open minded into  using some good programs like relaxkids ideas to

the alertprogram its hard to say what works  for all casue the case is no mind

or body is the same and to much now a days of everyoen getting the wrong label

just to get help  in schools  thats sad

i think the world  goes nuts with  that stuff i foudn treat each system  and 

find a balance way to help each area and system to work better

i am one who hates nor has nothing nice to say about aba  it does not work  for

my son it casued him  anexitry issues and to me thats not a good thing at all.

and as  parents we gotta reseach ways and find what helps and works best fo our

kids

From: mykitkate <mykitkate@...>

Subject: [ ] Re: Free ABA workshop

Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 3:39 PM

 

Nobody has ever suggested aba therapy for our son. He has apraxia. Kate

>

> While it's wonderful that they are providing free ABA workshops for those that

need it, I particularly want to know if they made it clear what type of

" developmentally delayed " 2 to 12 year old this therapy was appropriate for?

>

> As we know through this group from members here over the years, as well as if

you do a quick search on Google -ABA therapy is not the automatic therapy of

choice for developmentally delayed children -and in fact this is the first time

I'm hearing this. It's not only inappropriate therapy for a child say that has

apraxia but it can be detrimental and lead to secondary to the original

diagnosis behavioral problems due to frustrations to even psychological

disorders such as post traumatic stress.

>

> So before I go on as I have many examples and much information in this area-

please let us know that they were clear that this approach is NOT appropriate

for all children that may have communication delays. In fact the only one I know

it for sure is appropriate for is for those with autism.

>

> If however a child has autism and apraxia or some other underlying speech

impairment, then the ABA therapist should be aware of this and it should be

modified ABA and even then it is only appropriate if that form of therapy only

addresses those areas that are not affected by motor planning or other physical

impairments. While some therapies may be a waste of time or money because they

are inappropriate for that individual's needs due to their disability,

impairment, physical or psychological -ABA is the only I know that can be

detrimental -and the only I know that is linked to in a few cases charges of

child abuse.

>

> We have a family that is a member of this group and you can find the story a

few years back in the archives who's therapist for their apraxic child was put

in jail for the therapy and the therapist used as defense the therapy. How did

they know? They had a teddy cam that captured the therapy of her putting a bag

over the apraxic child's head, pulling his hair, slapping and pinching him etc.

>

> Another ABA therapist that used the therapy approach as defense is convicted

and serving jail time for a much more severe crime than child abuse - may want

to google Bott-Graham also used the therapy as her defense and I

believe is still in jail for the murder of a 4 year old autistic child named

Cameron. What really pisses me off is that this woman had a history of being

charged with abuse even prior to Cameron's murder and yet was still employed.

>

> I know that ABA can be very good and is provided by some excellent therapists.

I am fully aware that even though this therapy started with electroshock

negative behavioral methods that today more positive reinforcements are used.

But positive can be cruel too when the child isn't able to perform the command.

In preschool, my son was the innocent victim of the ABA approach used for my son

(back then they didn't believe in " apraxia " ) My son one day took his socks and

shoes off for OT, but the next when he didn't do it they assumed he was " being

manipulative " and the therapist said nobody was to help him. He sat on the floor

and cried during OT -a child who could not talk and ask for help. And then he

sat on the floor and cried while all the other children had the special snack.

He was talked to a few times and told that " if you take your socks and shoes off

you can have the snack with the rest of the children "

>

> They let my son sit on the floor and cry " ma " for HOURS. When I picked him up

from preschool his face was puffy and his voice was hoarse and he just kept

saying " ma " " ma " " ma " sounding like a frog. That was one of his only words at

that time. I only found out exactly what happened because the preschool teacher

herself told me in vivid detail to inform me " just how manipulative " all these

school professionals found my son to be -and that I was to " not give in to his

demands or I would be making their job more difficult " . I took my son right to

Dr. Trevor DeSouza who we have spoken about in this group -a neurologist from

town NJ who put in writing that it was " inappropriate to punish a child

with a motor planning impairment " and explained that with a motor planning

impairment you may be able to do something one time and not again, or you may

not be able to do it on command. He ended by saying to give my son Tanner " the

benefit of the doubt " Do you

know the school professionals at first didn't accept that note from this

neurologist either?!! The one OT said to me " Oh please. If there was something

neurologically wrong with Tanner we would know " And I said " Well I don't know,

but then again I'm not a neurologist "

>

> Yes I got my son put into out of district placement soon after that at the

Summit Speech School -but some parents may view this therapy as wonderful. So I

have personal reasons outside of knowing stories about the downsides of this

therapy if misused- again even if used with " positive " reinforcements.

>

> Proceed with caution with ABA. Too many kids today are misdiagnosed with

autism. Know if it's needed before being sucked into free warm fuzzy workshops

because there are quite a few parents who could put together a nightmare

workshop with photos of children who this therapy hurt of what can go wrong with

this therapy if not needed and not done appropriately.

>

> I am fully aware there are bad everything in the world -teachers, therapists,

doctors etc...but this is the only therapy that even when done 'right' can be

very wrong if not needed -so proceed with caution. I can get statements in

writing from respected PhD speech professionals about this too.

>

> We have had at least one mom in this group who has an autistic child who is an

ABA therapist that wrote some words on this worth archiving which I can find if

wanted -and all that have been members here over the past decade know my

feelings -I'm not anti ABA -but I am also not going to say " try it " like I would

for saying cranial sacral therapy which may be beneficial or may not be- but it

won't hurt the child.

>

> But again you are only sharing your personal experience and you just may not

have made clear what they did make clear -and I do hope that is the case. But

just in case they didn't- I will at least here.

>

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

ABA is not speech therapy, and it may not be needed. If ABA is inappropriate for

that child's disability or impairment it may be detrimental. I'm not sure what

I said that is confusing you. I also don't understand what I wrote that made you

think I was only advocating for preschool children. I am advocating for any age

on this matter. Speaking of which here's a story about a then 17 year old.

's family sued the PA school system for abuse and won. ABA was not the

appropriate therapy for and was proven detrimental as she was diagnosed

with post traumatic stress primarily due to the ABA therapy.

http://cherab.org/news/.html And yes 50 or so years ago ABA started with

electroshock (only a few use that today) and most don't advocate hitting -think

they stopped that in the late 80s...but ABA therapy is yes what I'm talking

about and it is still ABA.

The one professional I can have you speak with who teaches about this and is

even more strong then me on " NO!! " ABA being used for a child that has apraxia,

is Dr. Renai Jonas here in Florida who is an expert in autism and who is a

consultant to the Palm Beach county school system and Early Steps.

And let's not confuse ABA with the behavioral techniques all parents, teachers,

coaches and therapists use with success. I'm specifically talking about the

" therapy " of ABA.

Some people will read what you wrote and read what I wrote and do their homework

and ask around. Some need to learn for themselves -even if it's the hard way.

We all do what is best for our child. You want me to read the free workshop's

website. My advice to you is to do some research outside of that free workshop

website.

And about your other message where you wrote:

" Sorry, should have been clear when I said communication. They start with sign

language and then some kids spoke over time and some didn't. "

Honestly I don't even know how to answer that I'm so horrified. Again ABA is

not speech therapy. 75% of late talkers will speak -just late. If your child

is in the other 25% then you need to know if they need motor planning, strength,

sensory, oral motor or other speech therapy to help them become verbal. I

suggest you read The Late Talker http://www.cherabfoundation.org/latetalkerbook/

Best of luck to your child -and I really mean that.

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi !

My son Tanner also was diagnosed with sensory issues -think most apraxic

children today are multifaceted in presentation. We used OT as well to deal

with his sensory issues -but one that dealt with sensory integration

dysfunction. I have a page on feeding as he had strong sensory issues when it

came to that as it was " homework " at the time for Tanner that his one therapist

allowed me to put up on our site

http://cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/feeding.html

http://cherab.org/information/speechlanguage/mealtimetips.html

We didn't use a specific program, but in general once we got Tanner into

appropriate preschool placement, along with his private and school speech and

occupational therapy, alternative therapies that included but not limited to

cranial sacral, various listening therapies, hippotherapy, and the one that

helped accelerate the most were the fish oils,

http://pursuitofresearch.com/2010/12/01/therapeutic-use-of-fish-oil-for-apraxia-\

autism-and-other-communication-impairments/ his sensory issues became more

blended -but he still loves the drier, soft things. He still doesn't feel pain

always like others but since NV seems he's a bit more normal.

I'm sorry you had to go through it to. It's my hope if people like I continue

to share less children will have to suffer inappropriate therapy. Just because

there is more money by putting more shapes in the circle shaped holes, and for

sure ABA is one of the most expensive therapies as far as the amount of time per

week in comparison to others free workshop my foot!, not all shapes will fit

into the circle shaped hole -and you may break that shape trying to force it in!

=====

[Guest guest]

My son currently has an in home ABA program ALONG WITH SLT (he is 3). He has

PDD-NOS and apraxia. I think it has done wonders. The problem we were having

with his SLT was that he was very noncomplient so the whole session would just

be a battle (we went through 2 SLTs becasue of this issue-we were paying $70/hr

just for Joe to scream for an hour).

The ABA program has done wonders and he is now totally complient. He very

willing goes to the classroom we have set up and do the tasks that they want him

to do. Even if he does start to tantrum, it only lasts a minute or 2 now and he

will do the requested tast. We have ABA tutors come 3x a week and the SLT comes

2x a week. Everyone is one the same " team " . The SLT focus totally on language.

She gives programs for the tutors to run (ie-working on alot of receptive

language). We have a meeting every 6 weeks just to make sure everyone is on the

same page and to give new goals for him.

I can say that we started this program in August. The last 3 weeks have been

amazing. I would say that his SLT sessions are 1000% better. In 3 weeks, he

has learned to use a communcation device and uses it very effecively with us and

all his teachers. Yesterday, he told me he loved me with his device. We also

found out he knows all his colors, shapes and numbers.

I would say that ABA may not be for all kids. My my son, maybe becasue he is on

the spectrum and needed it. I don't think that it is a replacement for an SLT

and I would never just have an ABA program that did not have an SLT.