Re: NV update and magnsium /digestive enzyme question

[Guest guest]

Cheryl first of all I just want to say CONGRATULATIONS! on all the progress. I

know you don't think it's dramatic but knowing all you have gone through these

past through years with your now 7 year old daughter -including the horrific

meltdowns and zoning out behaviors, the improvement in behavior in itself in 3

months is just incredible!

Here are the things you may want to keep in mind as I know many of us tend to

underestimate what NV does in so many areas.

You also have a topic about Shea regarding the self contained/aide placement vs

the regular ed which is recent and it appears that for now that is a great fit

too!

If you look at the past 3 or 4 months (I say that because it took around a month

to get the dosage right and we do know it's dosage dependent) in a 7 year old

you noted subtle improvements in the following areas:

I noticed memorizing spelling words was a little easier for her,reading at times

was more fluent,and gradually after a few months her behavior was more

stable(flying off the handle tantrums less often)she is trying to retell stories

her Dad tells her following the sequence, which was near impossible for her

before, and she'll sequence happenings at school or what she did, stringing the

story on by saying " and then.... " " after that then... " much better.She is also

getting a better sense of humor, and saying please and thank you most all the

time.

And then most recently

On saturday I took her to swimming lessons and for the first time she did the

free style for about 12 feet alternating arms swinging both arms up and out of

the water. She has been on the swim team for 5 months now and could maybe go

three to four strokes like that only -on a good day;usually her right arm is

doggy paddling under the water trying to keep herself afloat.

All this in spite of various viral infections. Articulation and stuttering are

not the first improvements with NV- the first improvement would be the

complexity and maturity of thought and words -the articulation comes next.

Stuttering with apraxia can happen for a number of reasons. One can be when the

child is say learning to read, or learning a skill in another area, sometimes

the speech breaks down. It's also not unusual with apraxia to experience an

increase in stuttering during stressful situations. Prior to this move in

placements I recall that Shea did not want to be in the self contained placement

and that in itself will put stress on her which in turn could affect her

underlying speech impairment. Typical regression for my son Tanner too shows as

stuttering. The word I would use for stuttering is frustrating -not scary

Actually going back to her behaviors as I recall you went through some pretty

scary episodes in regards to Shea's behavior -so again to me this balance in her

mood is probably the best news yet.

I would stop adding magnesium and calcium to Shea's NV unless did her doctor

suggest that? I am curious why you added them to the NV for the past 2 months?

Both magnesium and calcium are already in NV from food sources

http://pursuitofresearch.org/products/nutriiveda/nutriiveda-ingredients/ which

again is the purest form of supplementation and the most easily digestable.

Most kids that eat a balanced diet would usually consume all the magnesium he or

she would need. Here are some of the contradictions of adding magnesium

http://www.ksl.stanford.edu/people/kpfleger/multivitamins/cached/my.webmd.com_co\

ntent_dmk_dmk_article_58947.html and again no reason to supplement with it if

she is eating a healthy diet -and NV is of course part of a healthy diet!

As far as digestive enzymes. There are a handful that have found better results

with adding them- but honestly at this point between the one bug to the next

sickness poor Shea (and you) have had to deal with, as well as the antibiotics

which we also know are reported to affect the ability of the NV to work as well,

as well as you adding magnesium which is another addition we found for some

reason to hinder the ability of NV to work as well- I'd say just give it time to

just use the NV alone first. If Shea is already on fish oils then continue them

too -but as you know from being a member here for years I'm not one for starting

more than one thing at a time. You want to know what is a waste of time and

money -and in Shea's case with her history of zoning and bizarre behavior from

supplements in the past- that's even more reason to keep it simple.

When you say " there are not academic improvements to make a huge shift in her

performance, but there are subtle changes "

I know it's difficult at times to be just optimistic about all you see. But in

fact you have seen academic improvements from what you wrote -and again your

child is 7 years old with a significant history that is not always typical here

in the behavior area, and again all of these changes are in the past few

months!!! That's amazing Cheryl -really really amazing!

You state that her reading and spelling have increased and then stated in the

message about her new class that the new teacher just advanced her 2 levels in

reading...that 'could' be from NV too. Academics is a huge area of improvement

with NV http://pursuitofresearch.org/pursuit-of-research/ In fact you'll want

to keep an eye on her that she isn't ready to go back to the mainstream again

anytime soon. Perhaps get a private tutor to work with her outside the school

that can monitor her progress to make sure that she stays in the least

restrictive environment which again could soon be back in the mainstream....and

yes the teacher in the self contained class may be better than the one in the

mainstream now -but historically speaking the self contained classes are not

where you want your child to be schooled if they can be mainstreamed for many

reasons -not just academic but social too.

Huge hugs to Shea for all her progress- tell her I said I hope she feels better

soon and gets to go back in the pool and show off all her fancy new swimming

strokes!

I'd say you should give yourself a well deserved hug and a smile too- it looks

like you finally found the light at the end of the tunnel! Just tweak it up a

bit and keep going as you are!

=====

[Guest guest]

What are you using for digestive enzymes? How much do you give?

Where do you get them?

Noelle

Sent from my iPhone

>

> Cheryl first of all I just want to say CONGRATULATIONS! on all the progress.

I know you don't think it's dramatic but knowing all you have gone through these

past through years with your now 7 year old daughter -including the horrific

meltdowns and zoning out behaviors, the improvement in behavior in itself in 3

months is just incredible!

>

> Here are the things you may want to keep in mind as I know many of us tend to

underestimate what NV does in so many areas.

>

> You also have a topic about Shea regarding the self contained/aide placement

vs the regular ed which is recent and it appears that for now that is a great

fit too!

>

> If you look at the past 3 or 4 months (I say that because it took around a

month to get the dosage right and we do know it's dosage dependent) in a 7 year

old you noted subtle improvements in the following areas:

> I noticed memorizing spelling words was a little easier for her,reading at

times was more fluent,and gradually after a few months her behavior was more

stable(flying off the handle tantrums less often)she is trying to retell stories

her Dad tells her following the sequence, which was near impossible for her

before, and she'll sequence happenings at school or what she did, stringing the

story on by saying " and then.... " " after that then... " much better.She is also

getting a better sense of humor, and saying please and thank you most all the

time.

>

> And then most recently

> On saturday I took her to swimming lessons and for the first time she did the

free style for about 12 feet alternating arms swinging both arms up and out of

the water. She has been on the swim team for 5 months now and could maybe go

three to four strokes like that only -on a good day;usually her right arm is

doggy paddling under the water trying to keep herself afloat.

>

> All this in spite of various viral infections. Articulation and stuttering

are not the first improvements with NV- the first improvement would be the

complexity and maturity of thought and words -the articulation comes next.

>

> Stuttering with apraxia can happen for a number of reasons. One can be when

the child is say learning to read, or learning a skill in another area,

sometimes the speech breaks down. It's also not unusual with apraxia to

experience an increase in stuttering during stressful situations. Prior to this

move in placements I recall that Shea did not want to be in the self contained

placement and that in itself will put stress on her which in turn could affect

her underlying speech impairment. Typical regression for my son Tanner too

shows as stuttering. The word I would use for stuttering is frustrating -not

scary Actually going back to her behaviors as I recall you went through some

pretty scary episodes in regards to Shea's behavior -so again to me this balance

in her mood is probably the best news yet.

>

> I would stop adding magnesium and calcium to Shea's NV unless did her doctor

suggest that? I am curious why you added them to the NV for the past 2 months?

Both magnesium and calcium are already in NV from food sources

http://pursuitofresearch.org/products/nutriiveda/nutriiveda-ingredients/ which

again is the purest form of supplementation and the most easily digestable.

Most kids that eat a balanced diet would usually consume all the magnesium he or

she would need. Here are some of the contradictions of adding magnesium

http://www.ksl.stanford.edu/people/kpfleger/multivitamins/cached/my.webmd.com_co\

ntent_dmk_dmk_article_58947.html and again no reason to supplement with it if

she is eating a healthy diet -and NV is of course part of a healthy diet!

>

> As far as digestive enzymes. There are a handful that have found better

results with adding them- but honestly at this point between the one bug to the

next sickness poor Shea (and you) have had to deal with, as well as the

antibiotics which we also know are reported to affect the ability of the NV to

work as well, as well as you adding magnesium which is another addition we found

for some reason to hinder the ability of NV to work as well- I'd say just give

it time to just use the NV alone first. If Shea is already on fish oils then

continue them too -but as you know from being a member here for years I'm not

one for starting more than one thing at a time. You want to know what is a

waste of time and money -and in Shea's case with her history of zoning and

bizarre behavior from supplements in the past- that's even more reason to keep

it simple.

>

> When you say " there are not academic improvements to make a huge shift in her

performance, but there are subtle changes "

>

> I know it's difficult at times to be just optimistic about all you see. But

in fact you have seen academic improvements from what you wrote -and again your

child is 7 years old with a significant history that is not always typical here

in the behavior area, and again all of these changes are in the past few

months!!! That's amazing Cheryl -really really amazing!

>

> You state that her reading and spelling have increased and then stated in the

message about her new class that the new teacher just advanced her 2 levels in

reading...that 'could' be from NV too. Academics is a huge area of improvement

with NV http://pursuitofresearch.org/pursuit-of-research/ In fact you'll want

to keep an eye on her that she isn't ready to go back to the mainstream again

anytime soon. Perhaps get a private tutor to work with her outside the school

that can monitor her progress to make sure that she stays in the least

restrictive environment which again could soon be back in the mainstream....and

yes the teacher in the self contained class may be better than the one in the

mainstream now -but historically speaking the self contained classes are not

where you want your child to be schooled if they can be mainstreamed for many

reasons -not just academic but social too.

>

> Huge hugs to Shea for all her progress- tell her I said I hope she feels

better soon and gets to go back in the pool and show off all her fancy new

swimming strokes!

>

> I'd say you should give yourself a well deserved hug and a smile too- it looks

like you finally found the light at the end of the tunnel! Just tweak it up a

bit and keep going as you are!

>

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks , as far as the academic improvements-it's obvious to me-not so much

her teachers. Shea is historically on her game one or two days and then just

can't maintain it showing difficulty in reading math,and even just following the

daily routine-that's what i meant about the shift to being able to make gains

and stay there. It's like that with her speech and language-a see-saw.

I did stop the calcium and magnesium a few weeks ago. I did it because they are

supposed to be calming. As far as the digestive enzymes do you think they will

be contraindicated? I started them a few days ago and was going to keep them up.

I'll read the link about magnesium-Thanks again. I'll keep everyone posted as

she is starting to feel better. We are leaving for a trip in 1/2 hour to see

family that we haven't seen in months. I hope they notice a difference. AND this

will absolutely test her behavior and mood. Cheryl

[Guest guest]

But I thought the new teacher advanced Shea two levels in reading? Oh I too

pray that this time she maintains all her NV gains, and I suspect she will!!

Yes the digestive enzymes are fine to continue with. The only reason I tell

people to wait to use them is to see if there is a difference just to save the

money if they aren't needed. Some report they don't notice a difference.

Interestingly enough however digestive enzymes are one aspect of what is in NV

Accell which I know we don't talk much about here but which was created to also

support the metabolic system and compliment NV

http://pursuitofresearch.org/products/accell/ I found the Brahmi in it of great

interest. Who wouldn't that is dealing with apraxia?! Not that that would be

all it's good for -but just interesting.

About magnesium Tanner's pediatric gastroenterologist Dr. Lawrence in Palm

Beach did not allow me to give magnesium supplements to Tanner, but back then

years ago when we were dealing with constipation I was allowed to use ONLY

Milk of Magnesia if Tanner missed a day. He said that a child also

should not take magnesium without a doctor's supervision and that's the only one

he wanted me to use -it had to be .

Anyway yes there are many contradictions with magnesium when supplemented. Do

let us know how it goes later today when you have a chance -I can't wait to see

what your family says about Shea!!

Oh and PS -take her to the library or book store and let her pick out a book or

books she wants to read- don't worry about level just let her find what

interests her. Let us know what she picks out and how well she reads it. I'm

smiling writing this because that's a super fun thing to do once you start your

child on NV- don't underestimate the fun surprises every day can bring now!!

=====

[Guest guest]

You might want to consider looking at antivirals and antiyeast meds. If Shea is

getting sick she may be having virus issues. Antibiotics can cause yeast

overgrowth as well as virus issues can promote the growth of yeast. Good luck

Dave

>

> Shea has been on nutiiveda for 4 months now.

>

> I was really hoping for remarkable surges ,but ,we have had subtle slow

progress with ups and downs. First of all I started in way too quickly and too

high of a dose. We started with 1/2 scoop for three days and kept working up and

by one week later we were doing four scoops a day for our 50 pound 7 year old

daughter! We backed off after advice from here about 3 weeks of doing that and

having no progress. Since then, subtlely, I noticed memorizing spelling words

was a little easier for her,reading at times was more fluent,and gradually after

a few months her behavior was more stable(flying off the handle tantrums less

often). Her articulation hasn't improved that i have noticed but ocassionally

others have said they understand her a little better.

>

> Also,she is trying to retell stories her Dad tells her following the sequence,

which was near impossible for her before, and she'll sequence happenings at

school or what she did, stringing the story on by saying " and then.... " " after

that then... " much better.She is also getting a better sense of humor, and

saying please and thank you most all the time.

>

> But her grammer hasn't really improved yet,and she still leaves off alot of

words. She keeps going through a few weeks of stuttering pretty badly,and

getting stuck on the beginning of a word and not getting it out;sometimes her

jaw will be wide open and nothing comes out. Then the stuttering gradually

subsides for a few weeks.It's so scary. As I posted we did just move her from

regular Ed to self contained so there are not academic improvements to make a

huge shift in her performance, but there are subtle changes as I've said, and I

know some things seem a bit easier for her.It's hard to explain because it's not

blatant-but it just seems more... natural,maybe, at times.

>

> Also, things that could be slowing progress and hindering major surges are

several colds(which she has had 2 different ones in the past 2 weeks alone), she

was on antibiotics twice(once in november for a sinus infection which she

probably had for about 3 weeks before i finally succumbed to the antibiotics,and

once in the end of January for strep),and she had an intestinal virus.

>

> Furthermore, which I'd really love to hear feedback on, is about magnesium

which I just got brief information about being possibly contraindicated with NV.

For at least 2 months (around december and january) I was giving her a magnesium

and calcium supplement mixed in the nutriiveda. Could that have been impacting

how the nutiiveda works?

>

> Also, a few days ago I read about a Mom using up old digestive enzymes in

their NV and they saw a marked difference with surges. I had some digestive

enzymes which I used in the past with Shea before NV and didn't notice any

impact on her(belly wise or anything). So last week I put a capsule in a few

doses of the NV . It was on last thursday and friday.

>

> On saturday I took her to swimming lessons and for the first time she did the

free style for about 12 feet alternating arms swinging both arms up and out of

the water. She has been on the swim team for 5 months now and could maybe go

three to four strokes like that only -on a good day;usually her right arm is

doggy paddling under the water trying to keep herself afloat.

>

> So,I still am adding it since then but she got really sick the next

day,sunday,and is still sick today with a sore throat and some stupid virus

making her tired and achey, so I can't tell if there would be any other cool new

things she could do. So, could the digestive enzymes be enhancing and maybe

making her absorb the nutrients in the NV better? I'm wondering if I'm doing

anything else wrong, or could be doing something else to get some really awesome

surges!

>

> It is so helpful and important for everyone share what is and isn't working.

Thanks everybody! Cheryl

>

[Guest guest]

Dave you may be newer here and I know Cheryl's on her way to go ice skating and

will answer this later -but based on Shea's history and the fact she's doing

well for the first time it would be a mistake in my opinion to put her on

antivirals or antiyeasts because her daughter is progressing now on NV for the

first time in years. The update from Cheryl is actually if you know her

daughter's history -remarkable.

Cheryl's daughter wasn't put on pharma omgega speak -but under the care of her

doctor based on ' theory of vitamin e she shared here -Cheryl's

then 4 year old daughter was put on about 1000 IUs of vitamin e a day and

developed psychotic behavior. You may want to read this message I just sent to

Ivy about vitamin e in mega amounts or pharma omega speak

/message/101473

It wasn't until I read Ivy's message that I put both together that on that

product or mega vitamin e -the (what I consider) damage both neurologically and

metabolically does not go away over the years. In fact the only thing that

helps that I have found and we tried everything is NV.

Besides NV is all from food that is a natural antiviral, antifungal, with

reports of elimination of yeast -here's a page on that

http://pursuitofresearch.org/2010/11/29/autism-antivirals-drugs-or-food/

Cheryl will be updating later about her daughter who's continued to make

progress again for the first time since on NV -but unlike most of us her

daughter is taking longer. I suspect that like Ivy's child, those with younger

children on dosages that were much further over upper tolerable levels than my

son Tanner may have sustained more damage both neurologically and metabolically

and to give it time.

Cheryl's daughter like Ivy's child has gone the bio med route and many things

were tried with no success. The following is a message from Cheryl about a year

after the mega vitamin e...prior to the mega vitamin e her daughter (again who

was around 4 when started) never exhibited any psychotic type episodes.

Also Cheryl will share how when they just visited family and typically Shae

would have melt downs that she was a " perfect angel "

Ivy if you are reading this -Cheryl's from NJ too and perhaps you two can talk.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~message from Cheryl from 2 years ago

could the tantrums/outbursts be oppositional defiance disorder

Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:12 am

We are on another roller coaster with tantrums, emotiomal outbursts.bossines,

defiance.It has escalated worse as the summer goes onOur daughter is 6 and if

the worry of aparaxia, difficulty focusing and learning aren't enough,she goes

through periods(months)of really difficult behavior. It's almost like she's

losing her mind because the resistive behavior,antagonizing behavior, and

meltdowns seem so unreasonable.The school staff,even highly regarded dr.s(on

this forum),opinions are conflicting--SHE has apraxia, but one says the behavior

and focusing problems is adhd and wants to try ritalin,another says it's

executive function disorder with sensory issues and anxiety,and and now the

possibility of oppositional defiance has come into play.The most recent post

regarding meltdowns shows alot of the younger children are going through

this--which our daughter did, but as she gets older her ablity to verbalize,be

more phsical and stronger willed has come into play making it so incredibly

difficult to deal with. We were going to possibly cal the " ritalin " dr. this

week, but I read your post about tantrums and it makes me feel that we're not

alone,and maybe we should keep plugging through this. I worry because

schoolstarts in 4 weeks and this will greatly impact her ability to learn in 1st

grade. any input,nutrition suggestions siupport etc appreciated. Cheryl

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

At this point we have so many testimonies I don't even know where to put them

all! Here's just one page

http://pursuitofresearch.org/products/nutriiveda/nutriiveda-testimonials/

And here's a page from Annie from our group about 'wasting a year without NV'

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=115029735601 & topic=15713

=====

[Guest guest]

Yes i am seeing this and would love to speak with Cheryl!

Ivy

On Feb 26, 2011, at 8:40 AM, " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...> wrote:

> Dave you may be newer here and I know Cheryl's on her way to go ice skating

and will answer this later -but based on Shea's history and the fact she's doing

well for the first time it would be a mistake in my opinion to put her on

antivirals or antiyeasts because her daughter is progressing now on NV for the

first time in years. The update from Cheryl is actually if you know her

daughter's history -remarkable.

>

> Cheryl's daughter wasn't put on pharma omgega speak -but under the care of her

doctor based on ' theory of vitamin e she shared here -Cheryl's

then 4 year old daughter was put on about 1000 IUs of vitamin e a day and

developed psychotic behavior. You may want to read this message I just sent to

Ivy about vitamin e in mega amounts or pharma omega speak

/message/101473

>

> It wasn't until I read Ivy's message that I put both together that on that

product or mega vitamin e -the (what I consider) damage both neurologically and

metabolically does not go away over the years. In fact the only thing that helps

that I have found and we tried everything is NV.

>

> Besides NV is all from food that is a natural antiviral, antifungal, with

reports of elimination of yeast -here's a page on that

http://pursuitofresearch.org/2010/11/29/autism-antivirals-drugs-or-food/

>

> Cheryl will be updating later about her daughter who's continued to make

progress again for the first time since on NV -but unlike most of us her

daughter is taking longer. I suspect that like Ivy's child, those with younger

children on dosages that were much further over upper tolerable levels than my

son Tanner may have sustained more damage both neurologically and metabolically

and to give it time.

>

> Cheryl's daughter like Ivy's child has gone the bio med route and many things

were tried with no success. The following is a message from Cheryl about a year

after the mega vitamin e...prior to the mega vitamin e her daughter (again who

was around 4 when started) never exhibited any psychotic type episodes.

>

> Also Cheryl will share how when they just visited family and typically Shae

would have melt downs that she was a " perfect angel "

>

> Ivy if you are reading this -Cheryl's from NJ too and perhaps you two can

talk.

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~message from Cheryl from 2 years ago

>

> could the tantrums/outbursts be oppositional defiance disorder

> Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:12 am

>

> We are on another roller coaster with tantrums, emotiomal outbursts.bossines,

> defiance.It has escalated worse as the summer goes onOur daughter is 6 and if

> the worry of aparaxia, difficulty focusing and learning aren't enough,she goes

> through periods(months)of really difficult behavior. It's almost like she's

> losing her mind because the resistive behavior,antagonizing behavior, and

> meltdowns seem so unreasonable.The school staff,even highly regarded dr.s(on

> this forum),opinions are conflicting--SHE has apraxia, but one says the

behavior

> and focusing problems is adhd and wants to try ritalin,another says it's

> executive function disorder with sensory issues and anxiety,and and now the

> possibility of oppositional defiance has come into play.The most recent post

> regarding meltdowns shows alot of the younger children are going through

> this--which our daughter did, but as she gets older her ablity to verbalize,be

> more phsical and stronger willed has come into play making it so incredibly

> difficult to deal with. We were going to possibly cal the " ritalin " dr. this

> week, but I read your post about tantrums and it makes me feel that we're not

> alone,and maybe we should keep plugging through this. I worry because

> schoolstarts in 4 weeks and this will greatly impact her ability to learn in

1st

> grade. any input,nutrition suggestions siupport etc appreciated. Cheryl

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> At this point we have so many testimonies I don't even know where to put them

all! Here's just one page

http://pursuitofresearch.org/products/nutriiveda/nutriiveda-testimonials/

>

> And here's a page from Annie from our group about 'wasting a year without NV'

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=115029735601 & topic=15713

>

> =====

>