Re: Stuttering and Apraxia

January 12, 2011

Hi !

Yes this comes up often here -so the following is an archive -let me know if you

have questions after reading this (it may not have it all in here but there's

lots of info

Re: Just began stuttering

Yes this comes up here often and lots on apraxia and stuttering. And why

shouldn't there be when both are motor planning impairments of speech? No

apraxia is not the same as those diagnosed with traditional stuttering, the

stuttering phase some apraxic children go through is developmental stuttering

(typically anyway) so developmental strategies for stuttering such as talking

slow, giving the child full attention when he or she is trying to speak are

recommended -NOT traditional stuttering therapy.

VERY important is to hold off right now on concentration on any articulation

therapy -not sure what the Prompt therapist is working on but yes, for apraxia

too much work on articulation can cause and/or prolong stuttering. Typically

once in this " bumpy " stage it takes awhile to get over it and it's VERY

frustrating for all -but instead of me making this message any longer -here are

just a few of the archives with more info and suggestions!

Re: Unsure of the next step/stuttering

Hi Tara!

Sorry I missed your last message asking about this 6 months ago.

Unfortunately around that time many of the " old timers " had tuned out

a bit or more would have answered you then to let you know that this

is a normal phase of apraxia that some pass through. Actually it's

included in the " stages of apraxia " I wrote for The Late Talker book

that I have below.

Children with apraxia don't get " stuck " forever at a stage -it just

feels like that. Actually without appropriate therapy they could be

stuck -but that's not the same thing. It's up to us the parents to

make sure we secure appropriate therapies so that our child continues

to progress.

For the stuttering stage of apraxia it is important to know that I've

checked this out many times with my own son when he went through this

stage that started around the same age as your child and lasted for a

few years that this is not classic stuttering but developmental

stuttering. For whatever reason when an apraxic child goes through

this stage they do appear to get stuck there -but again it's not

forever. During this phase you have to be very careful not to do

articulation therapy as that appears to make the stuttering worse.

There are some strategies such as when your daughter is

talking...relax your body -everybody needs to stop what they are

doing -and just listen no matter how long it takes. Give her all the

time in the world -and let her know this is just another stage she is

going through and you'll help her get through this too. It's cruel

that when our kids finally get to speak they start to stutter -like

insult to injury. If you google " stuttering apraxic " you'll find

messages from both me as well as Rhonda who founded the nonprofit

ECHO of Canada as both her daughter Maddie and my son Tanner went

through this at the same time and it drove both of us nuts. Here's

the link http://cahn.mnsu.edu/profin4/

Rhonda did speak to some world renowned researchers in stuttering

that are located in Canada and even though apraxia and stuttering are

not the same disorder -they are both motor planning disorders of

speech so once again there are some overlaps neurologically speaking.

I can tell you that we tried many out of the box therapies to address

the stuttering including therapeutic listening. Helped a bit -ride

therapy helped make Tanner's speech smoother ( " Mr. Bumpy " which was

what we named the stuttering) must of been scared by the rides we

used to joke! But fortunately for you that we know one other way to

help reduce the stuttering! I can tell by the archives below you are

using ProEFA and vitamin E (let us know exact dosage of each) You

may have to use a slightly higher dosage of the alpha gamma vitamin

E. The vitamin E appears to have the same effect as the " ride

therapy " but it lasts!

As far as friends I would visit many of the sites for stuttering as

there is much there to support children and families who have to deal

with stuttering. I kind of wish apraxia was linked to stuttering

more as they have the most awesome advocacy (and celebrity

spokespeople) outside of hearing impaired organizations.

Here's just a few

How to talk to kids about it

http://www.friendswhostutter.com/reachout_05.asp

Books about it for all ages

http://www.mnsu.edu/comdis/kuster/kids/kidsbooks.html

And of course the awesome Stuttering Foundation (adopt apraxia please)

http://www.stutteringhelp.org/

Much more -just google it. Just not much on the stuttering phase of

apraxia -that you mainly have to find out here in the archives and

from us -the " old timers "

After reading this let me know if you have any other questions -and

hopefully other " old timers " who have children that went through this

stage will chime in too!

~~~~~~~~~~~~start of archives on this:

Re: Stuttering

Hi Amy!

My son Tanner never stutters at all anymore -he's 9 now. Well there

was that one day recently when we went to Orlando for my boys and a

friend of theirs when they were supposed to just be a film my friend

was directing as " background kids " and last minute she had two bit

roles and there was that on the spot audition that the group

of " background kids " read for...Tanner had no head's up to this.

Was in front of everyone. He read it OK -but didn't act it like the

other kids -and read it slow and yes, he stuttered just a bit.

Even then, however, he really didn't stutter. It's over -the

developmental stage of apraxia where they can go to stuttering is

over (!) And yes -this is a stage you probably won't learn

about anywhere else because it hasn't been studied enough yet. But

years ago I was also first to talk about neuroMDs, schools for the

hearing impaired, EFAs, even when others laughed.

But mark my words -all will know this too one day.

There is more than one stage of apraxia.

(see the " nonverbal " stage below for that topic)

sigh

Well anyway:

it's not stuttering in the classic sense -it is stuttering in the

normal developmental stage sense and it can just happen later and

last a bit longer and it does drive you and your child to the

heights of frustration. I mean how cruel, they finally can talk

more, and now they stutter!

Since this has come up lots before -here's a recent archive -way

more in the archives!:

From: sherry silvern <srsilvern@...>

Date: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:00 pm

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: stuttering srsilvern

WOW! Thanks - that was incredibly helpful! Josh's SLP still has

not heard

the " stutter " but said she will keep an ear out for it and try to

recreate it -

it only happens on the vowel sounds, 'o' in particular - pretty

unusual from

what I understand. She said it could be a breath support issue,

since it is on

the vowels, or he's trying to say things too quickly. When I do hear

it, I

stroke his arm and get him to slow down, then he can get the words

out without a problem. For a kid who loves oatmeal and ovaltine,

getting stuck on

the 'o' is pretty rough!

Thanks again, Sherry

kiddietalk <kiddietalk@...> wrote:

Hi Sherry!

I have advice. Once again a topic I wish I wasn't personally an

expert on! My advice today -don't worry about stuttering and

apraxia. It's a really hard stage to go through, believe me I know,

but there is a light at the end...and there is an end!

It took Tanner years to pass through his developmental stage of

stuttering which started at 4 and lasted about 3-4 years -but it's

over now. (listen to Tanner with developmental stuttering at 4 years

9 months

here http://www.debtsmart.com/talk/tanner.html )

Some days or times his stuttering would be worse then others. Some

days it would be not so bad. It would completely go away the day

after we went to Universal or Disney and went on Gforce rides for

example as I posted here. But once again it's gone now -rides or no

rides.

Tanner who is now nine, was never diagnosed as a " stutterer " by any

SLP, or SLP PhD that has seen him. And that includes two PhDs who

specialized in stuttering, one being Dr. Dale . Both

considered Tanner's Stuttering to be developmental, and both of them

as well as the rest did not recommend stuttering therapy for

apraxia. All agreed the best approach for this " stage " is " slow and

easy speech " and to continue therapy for the apraxia.

Tanner today at 9 speaks clearly today without stuttering. His

dysfluency stage lasted way too long in my opinion, but it's over

now and he just keeps improving. Like learning to speak however -

it's all at a way slower pace.

Even though Tanner's communication abilities at this point are still

developmentally delayed, he is diagnosed to be comparable to that of

a 5 or 6 year old child in regards to his communication skills, he

is now at the stage where he is able to speak in full grammatically

correct sentences. With shorter utterances he is indistinguishable

from his peers. He clearly breaks down in trying to verbally

express his views academically using the more sophisticated language

necessary for his curriculum in science, history, language arts,

etc. which is where this years problem has arisen since some

teachers are shockingly negatively judging Tanner's ability on his

inability to communicate verbally (even though he " tests well " ahhhh)

None of Tanner's communication delays however affect his ability

to " communicate " with adults or his peers. He is very popular at

school with everyone, even children that are developmentally

advanced or even years older. Tanner hangs out with children that

are his age and older. His " one " best friend we have a play date

with this week is . was just tested as genius level,

working well above his grade level in all subjects, and at 8 just

advanced to the forth grade. This is the child I spoke about

somewhere in the archives that was at 6 speaking in great detail

about the " philosophical aspects of space and time travel " -opposite

of speech delayed!

To fight the discrimination against Tanner's verbal disability we

are once again going the testing route which is my tried and true

method of stopping the negative spiral downward in it's tracks. Dr.

Renai Jonas will complete Tanner's expressive and receptive

testing. And the " clinical and forensic psychologist " who tested

(above story) will also be testing Tanner's IQ later this

month. I just dropped off to him The Late Talker book yesterday to

make sure he is aware of Tanner's limitations with verbal

communication in testing -and he promised all nonverbal IQ tests

that I approve. Don't want to say which ones yet because I don't

know all for sure -I know one may be the Leiter-R. Will keep you

guys posted.

The following quote is from Tanner's therapist Dr. Renai Jonas from

Boca Raton, Florida who has personally now witnessed Tanner finally

pass through the 'developmental stage' of stuttering that started

for him at around 4 and lasted till around seven or eight years

old. This quote was not specifically for stuttering -but I know

that's part of what she's referring to.

" In the area of apraxia, not being able to talk affects ones ability

to practice and learn in the same way as ones peers. Apraxia

creates a developmental delay that lasts longer, however the child

can catch up and can even surpass his peers. "

Dr. Renai Jonas (561) 361 - 0307.

Early Steps Program, Palm Beach County, FL Adjunct Professor,

Florida Atlantic University

Here's an archive of mine of this subject:

Stuttering and apraxia, is it a stage or overlap? Dysfluency can be

part of normal development in speech in young children -and if our

kids can

go through drooling and teething at three -why would it be

impossible for them to go through dysfluency at three or older?

When did I first bring this up on the web...over three years ago

http://cahn.mnsu.edu/profin4/_disc1/0000008c.htm

Tanner today at 7 and a half, I wouldn't describe it as stuttering

anymore. He at times speaks a bit slower, but not always. He

almost always needs to break his long thoughts into shorter

sentences, and pause between each one. He can talk -but it takes

longer to get it out then most of us. You can hear his most recent

talking page update here

http://www.debtsmart.com/talk/tanner.html

Below I cut and pasted some archives on this -but there are many

more. In particular notice the parent observed " stages of

apraxia " that I wrote below. There are that many apraxic children

that go through this " stuttering " thing I call it a " stage "

I say I wouldn't change anything below but I take that back. Now

that I think of it, since our children don't go through normal

developmental stages young -it's OK they go through them older.

With appropriate therapy they will continue to develop past these

stages. At least that's what I have seen in Tanner and some others

in this group. But that's not a fact -just my opinion.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Archives

My Tanner's problem today at almost seven is with stuttering on and

off. Today Tanner's doing really well in speech -but as I posted

below -now that he is learning to read and his vocabulary is

expanding and he's pushing himself to speak in longer more complex

sentences -he ranges from having almost no stuttering to hesitation

on many words. For this reason -I just took Tanner to see

stuttering expert Dr. Dale from Florida Atlantic University

who diagnosed Tanner as having 20% fluency issues. Dr.

believes that Tanner's stuttering is not a true stuttering -but a

developmental one. Apraxic stuttering...appears there is such a

thing -so I guess down the road we will hear more about this. Dr.

confirmed that once apraxic children learn to talk -they

are hearing more and more about children with apraxia and

stuttering together. What was of great interest to those of you in

this group who also report hearing stuttering coming and going in

your apraxic child is that Dr. said that " we have done an

injustice as you say to apraxia and have not studied it enough, so

we really don't know how long is " normal " for the dysfluency stage

in an apraxic child -we really don't. We do know that many apraxic

children appear to take longer to go through stages. "

Dr. advised not to proceed with traditional stuttering

therapy for now -outside of continuing with slow and easy speech

practices. So here is the good news for all of us in this group who

have children going through this -Dr. said " I don't believe

this is something that Tanner will be dealing with for life at this

point "

Re: HELP: How can you prevent stutterring?

Hi Celilia!

The developmental stage of stuttering is one many children go

through normally as they develop language. So while nobody 'wants'

their child to drool, chew, stutter (or ask " Why? " 6000 times in a

row) they are all par for the course.

Sometimes we view things as " negative " when they are normal stages.

In the case of apraxia our children may go through some of the

developmental stages later...which in my opinion is better than not

at all. Developmental stages are there for a reason.

As wisely pointed out the other day to parents who

complained how children became more talkative -but also cranky

and " unruly " when given EFAs ...that's 'normal' behavior for

preschool children in most cases. If your child didn't go through

the " terrible twos " and doesn't go through them till you start EFAs

at 4...then they are just going through that stage late.

(on their way to " normal " )

Do you really want to 'stop' a stage that may be an important

developmental stage? Probably not. Slow and easy speech back to

the child and giving them time is probably the best advice we had

for my apraxic son Tanner. We heard this from " stuttering experts "

too including Dr. Dale from FAU.

Tanner by the way did go through a very long stuttering phase (in

fact google the words " stuttering apraxic " and you'll find my post

from some online stuttering conference in 2001)

http://cahn.mnsu.edu/profin4/_disc1/0000008c.htm

And listen to Tanner say the three little pigs

Best talking he ever did at that point -but he stutters it a bit.

http://www.debtsmart.com/talk/tanner.html

Tanner is 9 years old today and he does not stutter at all anymore

unless he's really really nervous -like the time he had to read a

script in front of a room full of strangers for a movie one of my

friends was directing here in Florida. Even then however -it's not

stuttering in the sense of classic stuttering.

If you stop or reduce the EFAs -you'll probably just stop or reduce

the acceleration the EFAs create -thus your child won't have as much

to say -and less to say means no stuttering! As I said above

however I doubt that's what you are looking for.

Thaaaaat's all folks! )

(I can joke about it because I'm here to tell you that " this too

shall pass)

=====

January 16, 2011

Hi ,

This was a great post and very timely for me! Thank you so much.

I have a related question for you with respect to my daughter. As you are

aware, she does not have Apraxia but has been diagnosed with Phonological

Disorder and has been stuttering on and off since the last 8-9 months. Now,

when she was 2 yrs of age (right now she is 4 yrs old) and we went into ST

because she had no speech, we were instructed to speak to her in one

language only which is Hindi. Subsequently, she picked up the language and

became fully conversant in it except for the missing sounds or sound

substitutions.

Approx. 1 year ago, again on the advice of our ST, we introduced English at

home. Considering that she was attending a montessori/playschool and English

was the chosen language there, it was not that it was completely new to her.

What was new was having her Dad speak to her mostly in English (but I was

also translating the same in Hindi if she was not understanding). Since then

she has been picking up English too in the last few months though her

language skills in English are nowhere near as good as in Hindi. Sometimes

she herself will say a full sentence in English though grammar might be

incorrect. Now my question is this.. considering that we started focussing

on English approx. a year ago and that her stuttering started approx. 8-9

months ago, is it possible that it's the reason for the stuttering?

Just a few days ago, we went to Bangalore to consult some specialists and

they had a team comprising of a ST, OT and a special educator. They told us

that her stuttering is not the normal developmental stuttering as because

her language/vocab is fully developed. However, on reading your post on

returning back to Calcutta, I can't help thinking that the stuttering may

well be of the normal developmental nature and prompted by the fact that her

language / vocab in English is not that well developed.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Nikunj

> Hi Sherry!

>

> I have advice. Once again a topic I wish I wasn't personally an

> expert on! My advice today -don't worry about stuttering and

> apraxia. It's a really hard stage to go through, believe me I know,

> but there is a light at the end...and there is an end!

>

> It took Tanner years to pass through his developmental stage of

> stuttering which started at 4 and lasted about 3-4 years -but it's

> over now. (listen to Tanner with developmental stuttering at 4 years

> 9 months

> here http://www.debtsmart.com/talk/tanner.html )

>

> Some days or times his stuttering would be worse then others. Some

> days it would be not so bad. It would completely go away the day

> after we went to Universal or Disney and went on Gforce rides for

> example as I posted here. But once again it's gone now -rides or no

> rides.

>

> Tanner who is now nine, was never diagnosed as a " stutterer " by any

> SLP, or SLP PhD that has seen him. And that includes two PhDs who

> specialized in stuttering, one being Dr. Dale . Both

> considered Tanner's Stuttering to be developmental, and both of them

> as well as the rest did not recommend stuttering therapy for

> apraxia. All agreed the best approach for this " stage " is " slow and

> easy speech " and to continue therapy for the apraxia.

>

> Tanner today at 9 speaks clearly today without stuttering. His

> dysfluency stage lasted way too long in my opinion, but it's over

> now and he just keeps improving. Like learning to speak however -

> it's all at a way slower pace.

>

> Even though Tanner's communication abilities at this point are still

> developmentally delayed, he is diagnosed to be comparable to that of

> a 5 or 6 year old child in regards to his communication skills, he

> is now at the stage where he is able to speak in full grammatically

> correct sentences. With shorter utterances he is indistinguishable

> from his peers. He clearly breaks down in trying to verbally

> express his views academically using the more sophisticated language

> necessary for his curriculum in science, history, language arts,

> etc. which is where this years problem has arisen since some

> teachers are shockingly negatively judging Tanner's ability on his

> inability to communicate verbally (even though he " tests well " ahhhh)

>

> None of Tanner's communication delays however affect his ability

> to " communicate " with adults or his peers. He is very popular at

> school with everyone, even children that are developmentally

> advanced or even years older. Tanner hangs out with children that

> are his age and older. His " one " best friend we have a play date

> with this week is . was just tested as genius level,

> working well above his grade level in all subjects, and at 8 just

> advanced to the forth grade. This is the child I spoke about

> somewhere in the archives that was at 6 speaking in great detail

> about the " philosophical aspects of space and time travel " -opposite

> of speech delayed!

>

> To fight the discrimination against Tanner's verbal disability we

> are once again going the testing route which is my tried and true

> method of stopping the negative spiral downward in it's tracks. Dr.

> Renai Jonas will complete Tanner's expressive and receptive

> testing. And the " clinical and forensic psychologist " who tested

> (above story) will also be testing Tanner's IQ later this

> month. I just dropped off to him The Late Talker book yesterday to

> make sure he is aware of Tanner's limitations with verbal

> communication in testing -and he promised all nonverbal IQ tests

> that I approve. Don't want to say which ones yet because I don't

> know all for sure -I know one may be the Leiter-R. Will keep you

> guys posted.

>

> The following quote is from Tanner's therapist Dr. Renai Jonas from

> Boca Raton, Florida who has personally now witnessed Tanner finally

> pass through the 'developmental stage' of stuttering that started

> for him at around 4 and lasted till around seven or eight years

> old. This quote was not specifically for stuttering -but I know

> that's part of what she's referring to.

>

> " In the area of apraxia, not being able to talk affects ones ability

> to practice and learn in the same way as ones peers. Apraxia

> creates a developmental delay that lasts longer, however the child

> can catch up and can even surpass his peers. "

> Dr. Renai Jonas (561) 361 - 0307.

>

> Early Steps Program, Palm Beach County, FL Adjunct Professor,

> Florida Atlantic University

>

> Here's an archive of mine of this subject:

>

> Stuttering and apraxia, is it a stage or overlap? Dysfluency can be

> part of normal development in speech in young children -and if our

> kids can

> go through drooling and teething at three -why would it be

> impossible for them to go through dysfluency at three or older?

> When did I first bring this up on the web...over three years ago

> http://cahn.mnsu.edu/profin4/_disc1/0000008c.htm

>

> Tanner today at 7 and a half, I wouldn't describe it as stuttering

> anymore. He at times speaks a bit slower, but not always. He

> almost always needs to break his long thoughts into shorter

> sentences, and pause between each one. He can talk -but it takes

> longer to get it out then most of us. You can hear his most recent

> talking page update here

> http://www.debtsmart.com/talk/tanner.html

>

> Below I cut and pasted some archives on this -but there are many

> more. In particular notice the parent observed " stages of

> apraxia " that I wrote below. There are that many apraxic children

> that go through this " stuttering " thing I call it a " stage "

>

> I say I wouldn't change anything below but I take that back. Now

> that I think of it, since our children don't go through normal

> developmental stages young -it's OK they go through them older.

> With appropriate therapy they will continue to develop past these

> stages. At least that's what I have seen in Tanner and some others

> in this group. But that's not a fact -just my opinion.

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Archives

> My Tanner's problem today at almost seven is with stuttering on and

> off. Today Tanner's doing really well in speech -but as I posted

> below -now that he is learning to read and his vocabulary is

> expanding and he's pushing himself to speak in longer more complex

> sentences -he ranges from having almost no stuttering to hesitation

> on many words. For this reason -I just took Tanner to see

> stuttering expert Dr. Dale from Florida Atlantic University

> who diagnosed Tanner as having 20% fluency issues. Dr.

> believes that Tanner's stuttering is not a true stuttering -but a

> developmental one. Apraxic stuttering...appears there is such a

> thing -so I guess down the road we will hear more about this. Dr.

> confirmed that once apraxic children learn to talk -they

> are hearing more and more about children with apraxia and

> stuttering together. What was of great interest to those of you in

> this group who also report hearing stuttering coming and going in

> your apraxic child is that Dr. said that " we have done an

> injustice as you say to apraxia and have not studied it enough, so

> we really don't know how long is " normal " for the dysfluency stage

> in an apraxic child -we really don't. We do know that many apraxic

> children appear to take longer to go through stages. "

>

> Dr. advised not to proceed with traditional stuttering

> therapy for now -outside of continuing with slow and easy speech

> practices. So here is the good news for all of us in this group who

> have children going through this -Dr. said " I don't believe

> this is something that Tanner will be dealing with for life at this

> point "

>

> Re: HELP: How can you prevent stutterring?

>

> Hi Celilia!

>

> The developmental stage of stuttering is one many children go

> through normally as they develop language. So while nobody 'wants'

> their child to drool, chew, stutter (or ask " Why? " 6000 times in a

> row) they are all par for the course.

>

> Sometimes we view things as " negative " when they are normal stages.

> In the case of apraxia our children may go through some of the

> developmental stages later...which in my opinion is better than not

> at all. Developmental stages are there for a reason.

>

> As wisely pointed out the other day to parents who

> complained how children became more talkative -but also cranky

> and " unruly " when given EFAs ...that's 'normal' behavior for

> preschool children in most cases. If your child didn't go through

> the " terrible twos " and doesn't go through them till you start EFAs

> at 4...then they are just going through that stage late.

> (on their way to " normal " )

>

> Do you really want to 'stop' a stage that may be an important

> developmental stage? Probably not. Slow and easy speech back to

> the child and giving them time is probably the best advice we had

> for my apraxic son Tanner. We heard this from " stuttering experts "

> too including Dr. Dale from FAU.

>

> Tanner by the way did go through a very long stuttering phase (in

> fact google the words " stuttering apraxic " and you'll find my post

> from some online stuttering conference in 2001)

> http://cahn.mnsu.edu/profin4/_disc1/0000008c.htm

>

> And listen to Tanner say the three little pigs

> Best talking he ever did at that point -but he stutters it a bit.

> http://www.debtsmart.com/talk/tanner.html

>

> Tanner is 9 years old today and he does not stutter at all anymore

> unless he's really really nervous -like the time he had to read a

> script in front of a room full of strangers for a movie one of my

> friends was directing here in Florida. Even then however -it's not

> stuttering in the sense of classic stuttering.

>

> If you stop or reduce the EFAs -you'll probably just stop or reduce

> the acceleration the EFAs create -thus your child won't have as much

> to say -and less to say means no stuttering! As I said above

> however I doubt that's what you are looking for.

>

> Thaaaaat's all folks! )

> (I can joke about it because I'm here to tell you that " this too

> shall pass)

>

> =====

>

January 24, 2011

Hi ,

Not sure if you missed my post below or if you've not had the time to reply yet.

Would really appreciate hearing your thoughts on my theory.

Thanks,

Nikunj

> > Hi Sherry!

> >

> > I have advice. Once again a topic I wish I wasn't personally an

> > expert on! My advice today -don't worry about stuttering and

> > apraxia. It's a really hard stage to go through, believe me I know,

> > but there is a light at the end...and there is an end!

> >

> > It took Tanner years to pass through his developmental stage of

> > stuttering which started at 4 and lasted about 3-4 years -but it's

> > over now. (listen to Tanner with developmental stuttering at 4 years

> > 9 months

> > here http://www.debtsmart.com/talk/tanner.html )

> >

> > Some days or times his stuttering would be worse then others. Some

> > days it would be not so bad. It would completely go away the day

> > after we went to Universal or Disney and went on Gforce rides for

> > example as I posted here. But once again it's gone now -rides or no

> > rides.

> >

> > Tanner who is now nine, was never diagnosed as a " stutterer " by any

> > SLP, or SLP PhD that has seen him. And that includes two PhDs who

> > specialized in stuttering, one being Dr. Dale . Both

> > considered Tanner's Stuttering to be developmental, and both of them

> > as well as the rest did not recommend stuttering therapy for

> > apraxia. All agreed the best approach for this " stage " is " slow and

> > easy speech " and to continue therapy for the apraxia.

> >

> > Tanner today at 9 speaks clearly today without stuttering. His

> > dysfluency stage lasted way too long in my opinion, but it's over

> > now and he just keeps improving. Like learning to speak however -

> > it's all at a way slower pace.

> >

> > Even though Tanner's communication abilities at this point are still

> > developmentally delayed, he is diagnosed to be comparable to that of

> > a 5 or 6 year old child in regards to his communication skills, he

> > is now at the stage where he is able to speak in full grammatically

> > correct sentences. With shorter utterances he is indistinguishable

> > from his peers. He clearly breaks down in trying to verbally

> > express his views academically using the more sophisticated language

> > necessary for his curriculum in science, history, language arts,

> > etc. which is where this years problem has arisen since some

> > teachers are shockingly negatively judging Tanner's ability on his

> > inability to communicate verbally (even though he " tests well " ahhhh)

> >

> > None of Tanner's communication delays however affect his ability

> > to " communicate " with adults or his peers. He is very popular at

> > school with everyone, even children that are developmentally

> > advanced or even years older. Tanner hangs out with children that

> > are his age and older. His " one " best friend we have a play date

> > with this week is . was just tested as genius level,

> > working well above his grade level in all subjects, and at 8 just

> > advanced to the forth grade. This is the child I spoke about

> > somewhere in the archives that was at 6 speaking in great detail

> > about the " philosophical aspects of space and time travel " -opposite

> > of speech delayed!

> >

> > To fight the discrimination against Tanner's verbal disability we

> > are once again going the testing route which is my tried and true

> > method of stopping the negative spiral downward in it's tracks. Dr.

> > Renai Jonas will complete Tanner's expressive and receptive

> > testing. And the " clinical and forensic psychologist " who tested

> > (above story) will also be testing Tanner's IQ later this

> > month. I just dropped off to him The Late Talker book yesterday to

> > make sure he is aware of Tanner's limitations with verbal

> > communication in testing -and he promised all nonverbal IQ tests

> > that I approve. Don't want to say which ones yet because I don't

> > know all for sure -I know one may be the Leiter-R. Will keep you

> > guys posted.

> >

> > The following quote is from Tanner's therapist Dr. Renai Jonas from

> > Boca Raton, Florida who has personally now witnessed Tanner finally

> > pass through the 'developmental stage' of stuttering that started

> > for him at around 4 and lasted till around seven or eight years

> > old. This quote was not specifically for stuttering -but I know

> > that's part of what she's referring to.

> >

> > " In the area of apraxia, not being able to talk affects ones ability

> > to practice and learn in the same way as ones peers. Apraxia

> > creates a developmental delay that lasts longer, however the child

> > can catch up and can even surpass his peers. "

> > Dr. Renai Jonas (561) 361 - 0307.

> >

> > Early Steps Program, Palm Beach County, FL Adjunct Professor,

> > Florida Atlantic University

> >

> > Here's an archive of mine of this subject:

> >

> > Stuttering and apraxia, is it a stage or overlap? Dysfluency can be

> > part of normal development in speech in young children -and if our

> > kids can

> > go through drooling and teething at three -why would it be

> > impossible for them to go through dysfluency at three or older?

> > When did I first bring this up on the web...over three years ago

> > http://cahn.mnsu.edu/profin4/_disc1/0000008c.htm

> >

> > Tanner today at 7 and a half, I wouldn't describe it as stuttering

> > anymore. He at times speaks a bit slower, but not always. He

> > almost always needs to break his long thoughts into shorter

> > sentences, and pause between each one. He can talk -but it takes

> > longer to get it out then most of us. You can hear his most recent

> > talking page update here

> > http://www.debtsmart.com/talk/tanner.html

> >

> > Below I cut and pasted some archives on this -but there are many

> > more. In particular notice the parent observed " stages of

> > apraxia " that I wrote below. There are that many apraxic children

> > that go through this " stuttering " thing I call it a " stage "

> >

> > I say I wouldn't change anything below but I take that back. Now

> > that I think of it, since our children don't go through normal

> > developmental stages young -it's OK they go through them older.

> > With appropriate therapy they will continue to develop past these

> > stages. At least that's what I have seen in Tanner and some others

> > in this group. But that's not a fact -just my opinion.

> >

> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Archives

> > My Tanner's problem today at almost seven is with stuttering on and

> > off. Today Tanner's doing really well in speech -but as I posted

> > below -now that he is learning to read and his vocabulary is

> > expanding and he's pushing himself to speak in longer more complex

> > sentences -he ranges from having almost no stuttering to hesitation

> > on many words. For this reason -I just took Tanner to see

> > stuttering expert Dr. Dale from Florida Atlantic University

> > who diagnosed Tanner as having 20% fluency issues. Dr.

> > believes that Tanner's stuttering is not a true stuttering -but a

> > developmental one. Apraxic stuttering...appears there is such a

> > thing -so I guess down the road we will hear more about this. Dr.

> > confirmed that once apraxic children learn to talk -they

> > are hearing more and more about children with apraxia and

> > stuttering together. What was of great interest to those of you in

> > this group who also report hearing stuttering coming and going in

> > your apraxic child is that Dr. said that " we have done an

> > injustice as you say to apraxia and have not studied it enough, so

> > we really don't know how long is " normal " for the dysfluency stage

> > in an apraxic child -we really don't. We do know that many apraxic

> > children appear to take longer to go through stages. "

> >

> > Dr. advised not to proceed with traditional stuttering

> > therapy for now -outside of continuing with slow and easy speech

> > practices. So here is the good news for all of us in this group who

> > have children going through this -Dr. said " I don't believe

> > this is something that Tanner will be dealing with for life at this

> > point "

> >

> > Re: HELP: How can you prevent stutterring?

> >

> > Hi Celilia!

> >

> > The developmental stage of stuttering is one many children go

> > through normally as they develop language. So while nobody 'wants'

> > their child to drool, chew, stutter (or ask " Why? " 6000 times in a

> > row) they are all par for the course.

> >

> > Sometimes we view things as " negative " when they are normal stages.

> > In the case of apraxia our children may go through some of the

> > developmental stages later...which in my opinion is better than not

> > at all. Developmental stages are there for a reason.

> >

> > As wisely pointed out the other day to parents who

> > complained how children became more talkative -but also cranky

> > and " unruly " when given EFAs ...that's 'normal' behavior for

> > preschool children in most cases. If your child didn't go through

> > the " terrible twos " and doesn't go through them till you start EFAs

> > at 4...then they are just going through that stage late.

> > (on their way to " normal " )

> >

> > Do you really want to 'stop' a stage that may be an important

> > developmental stage? Probably not. Slow and easy speech back to

> > the child and giving them time is probably the best advice we had

> > for my apraxic son Tanner. We heard this from " stuttering experts "

> > too including Dr. Dale from FAU.

> >

> > Tanner by the way did go through a very long stuttering phase (in

> > fact google the words " stuttering apraxic " and you'll find my post

> > from some online stuttering conference in 2001)

> > http://cahn.mnsu.edu/profin4/_disc1/0000008c.htm

> >

> > And listen to Tanner say the three little pigs

> > Best talking he ever did at that point -but he stutters it a bit.

> > http://www.debtsmart.com/talk/tanner.html

> >

> > Tanner is 9 years old today and he does not stutter at all anymore

> > unless he's really really nervous -like the time he had to read a

> > script in front of a room full of strangers for a movie one of my

> > friends was directing here in Florida. Even then however -it's not

> > stuttering in the sense of classic stuttering.

> >

> > If you stop or reduce the EFAs -you'll probably just stop or reduce

> > the acceleration the EFAs create -thus your child won't have as much

> > to say -and less to say means no stuttering! As I said above

> > however I doubt that's what you are looking for.

> >

> > Thaaaaat's all folks! )

> > (I can joke about it because I'm here to tell you that " this too

> > shall pass)

> >

> > =====

> >

January 25, 2011

Hi Nikunj!

Sorry I did miss this. I know with apraxia if the SLP concentrates too much on

articulation it increases the risk of them going through this long drawn out

stuttering phase. I agree with you that in your child's case this is probably

due to her still learning English and even though it's not developmental in the

classic developmental way, it does not sound to me like true stuttering either.

Does she stutter when speaking Hindu? Let me know.

Here are some suggestions. Whenever she is speaking everyone has to stop what

they are doing, take a deep breath and just relax their body and just listen.

As long as it takes her to speak just relax. When you speak to her try to also

sound relaxed. The point of that waters down to what they call " slow and easy

speech " It may be she's a bit stressed and her brain probably wants to speak in

Hindu still but she knows she's wanted to now speak in English. And yes if you

read The Late Talker it's perfectly normal to have delays in speech when there

is more than one language in the house -that does not make it an impairment

either.

Based on her age and how well she is speaking in Hindu -it's possible that she

never had a true impairment, just a delay from the duel language situation. I

mean she was 2 and speaking in full sentences in a year?! Even for a

phonological processing impairment that super quick (and that was before NV!)

I would also let her preschool teachers know to give her time when she wants to

speak. If she speaks to the teacher or other students in Hindu would they

understand her? She could be stressed from that too? The point is reduce the

stress, deep breaths and relax. Think of her as the old EF Hutten commercial

-when she talks -everybody listens.

When my son went through the stuttering phase I took him to two separate PhDs on

stuttering for evaluations -and both assured me it was not classic stuttering

and gave me the suggestions I have above. The one was an author of a book on

stuttering but can't recall her name right now -the other is a professor here in

Florida.

=====

January 31, 2011

Hi ,

Thanks for your response. Yes, when she is in her stuttering phase then it

does not matter whether she's speaking Hindi or English. She will stutter.

When she's not in that phase, she won't stutter no matter which language she

might be speaking.

So you're saying that if in 12-18 months time she went from no speech to

speaking in full sentences it might be a case of speech delay and not

phonological disorder? That being the case what you advise with respect to

speech therapy? Considering the intelligibility issues in her speech, should

we resume speech therapy even if that increases the stuttering or should we

continue to avoid it. The problem is that we don't have good speech therapy

here and the ones who are available do end up putting stress on the child

rather than being able to carry it off in a playful and light manner.

Thanks so much for the suggestions you have made. Would appreciate your

suggestion on what I've written above as I'm in a real conundrum right now

about the best way forward.

Thanks,

Nikunj

>

> Hi Nikunj!

>

> Sorry I did miss this. I know with apraxia if the SLP concentrates too much

on articulation it increases the risk of them going through this long drawn out

stuttering phase. I agree with you that in your child's case this is probably

due to her still learning English and even though it's not developmental in the

classic developmental way, it does not sound to me like true stuttering either.

>

> Does she stutter when speaking Hindu? Let me know.

>

> Here are some suggestions. Whenever she is speaking everyone has to stop what

they are doing, take a deep breath and just relax their body and just listen.

As long as it takes her to speak just relax. When you speak to her try to also

sound relaxed. The point of that waters down to what they call " slow and easy

speech " It may be she's a bit stressed and her brain probably wants to speak in

Hindu still but she knows she's wanted to now speak in English. And yes if you

read The Late Talker it's perfectly normal to have delays in speech when there

is more than one language in the house -that does not make it an impairment

either.

>

> Based on her age and how well she is speaking in Hindu -it's possible that she

never had a true impairment, just a delay from the duel language situation. I

mean she was 2 and speaking in full sentences in a year?! Even for a

phonological processing impairment that super quick (and that was before NV!)

>

> I would also let her preschool teachers know to give her time when she wants

to speak. If she speaks to the teacher or other students in Hindu would they

understand her? She could be stressed from that too? The point is reduce the

stress, deep breaths and relax. Think of her as the old EF Hutten commercial

-when she talks -everybody listens.

>

> When my son went through the stuttering phase I took him to two separate PhDs

on stuttering for evaluations -and both assured me it was not classic stuttering

and gave me the suggestions I have above. The one was an author of a book on

stuttering but can't recall her name right now -the other is a professor here in

Florida.

>

> =====

>

February 1, 2011

Hi Nikunj,

If from 2 years old to 3 years or 3 and a half years old your daughter went from

nonverbal to full sentences yes it's possible she just had a delay and would

have spoken anyway. (Unless your child in on NV- as we are seeing that in

months for some as you can read here

http://pursuitofresearch.org/2011/01/19/one-year-later-a-possible-cure-through-e\

ssential-nutrition-for-autism-apraxia-etc/ )

It also is possible there she has developmental stuttering which I know from

dealing with this stage " can " come from articulation therapy at least with

apraxia....so type of speech therapy is important in some cases. It is possible

that she's just stressed about having to learn English now and that is causing

the stuttering. It is possible her brain still is going back and forth between

her native Hindu and English which causes the stutter...but from what I know

none of the reasons I suspect for your daughter wold be the same as the true

impairment of stuttering.

The slow and easy advice would still be the same and would probably work for

any- but if there is articulation therapy going on right now for her I'd stop

that! But I'm not an SLP -and perhaps some of the members here that are can

jump in. Some may have not because it's of course difficult to assess a child

that you don't know in any way.

I'd seek other opinions from at least one other therapist who is respected in

your area on this- someone who you can share all the details of your daughter's

past with.

Here's an interesting article I just read about stuttering (for true

stuttering)

Professors Talk About Stuttering, Their Research in Children

Even though the " The King's Speech " shows how a man coped with stuttering almost

a century ago, the film and its buzz has people talking about the speech

disorder in the 21st century, says two Purdue University stuttering experts.

" The history of stuttering goes back to the ancient Greeks when people put

pebbles in their mouth to try to cure the problem, " says Anne ,

distinguished professor of speech, language and hearing sciences. " In the 1960s,

parents were told to ignore their child's stuttering, and this movie even

highlights some unconventional therapies. Today we know that early intervention

and therapy can make a difference in that child's life. Thanks to many new

studies of the onset and development of fluency problems in young children and

of the neural bases of stuttering, we have learned so much in the past 20

years. "

and Weber-Fox, a professor of speech, language and hearing

sciences, study stuttering, which is an involuntary hesitation, sound

prolongation or repetition of syllables in speech. Their research project has

been ongoing for many years with the support of the National Institutes of

Health.

" Even though a person stutters, they know exactly what they want to say, "

Weber-Fox says. " Our research shows that the brains of adults and school-age

children who stutter function differently for both listening or silent reading

as well in the coordination of movements for speaking. "

About 1 percent of the world's adult population stutters, but that number is

much larger for preschool-aged children. About 5 percent of four- and

five-year-olds stutter, but many of them grow out of it. and Weber-Fox are

studying why some recover and yet others continue to stutter persistently the

rest of their lives.

They are leading a five-year study, the Purdue Stuttering Project, to determine

any differences between the children who recover and those who don't. By using a

variety of measures - based on brainwaves, physiological signs, motor control

and language - the researchers will be able to look back at the information at

different age points between 4 and 9 years to determine differences between the

children who eventually recover and those who do not.

" When parents ask about treatment for children, they are often told to do

nothing because the child will grow out of it, " says. " Yes, this is true

for many children, but, unfortunately, this can delay the appropriate therapy

that could help those who need it. The information from our research could help

us develop a diagnostic test, and if we are able to diagnose persistent

stuttering at a younger age, we could better target therapy in children. We

believe that early treatment is important because we have more flexibility in

the brain at younger ages and it is easier to learn new patterns of speaking. "

In addition to the British monarch highlighted in " The King's Speech, " other

famous people who have dealt with stuttering include Earl , Marilyn

Monroe and Winston Churchill.

" We hope this film continues to draw attention to how people cope with

stuttering and the research that is taking place, " Weber-Fox says. " This is a

serious disorder. Those who don't seek therapy or who stutter severely struggle

with quality of life issues. For example, children may not raise their hand in

class and adults may not speak on the phone. New discoveries could make a

difference for millions of people. "

Purdue's Department of Speech, Language and Hearing Sciences is ranked one of

the best in the nation by U.S.News & World Report. The graduate program in

speech-language pathology was tied for No. 2 in 2008, and its doctoral program

in audiology was tied for No. 9 the same year.

http://www.valpolife.com/index.php/community/education/10842

=====

February 27, 2011

Hi ,

I badly need your advice with my present situation. My daughter, in addition

to the stuttering phases, has these phases where she seems to not have

control over her tongue. It might hang out when she tries to say something

or it may roll up inside the mouth. When this happens, she struggles to get

anything out but once the 1st word comes then the full sentence follows

smoothly without any stuttering. What do you think this is? We are all very

concerned and at a loss to understand it.

In addition, just fyi, she has recently been diagnosed with a definite

sensory integration disorder as well and we are getting started with OT.

Look forward to your inputs.

Thanks,

Nikunj

>

> Hi Nikunj,

>

> If from 2 years old to 3 years or 3 and a half years old your daughter went

from nonverbal to full sentences yes it's possible she just had a delay and

would have spoken anyway. (Unless your child in on NV- as we are seeing that in

months for some as you can read here

http://pursuitofresearch.org/2011/01/19/one-year-later-a-possible-cure-through-e\

ssential-nutrition-for-autism-apraxia-etc/ )

>

> It also is possible there she has developmental stuttering which I know from

dealing with this stage " can " come from articulation therapy at least with

apraxia....so type of speech therapy is important in some cases. It is possible

that she's just stressed about having to learn English now and that is causing

the stuttering. It is possible her brain still is going back and forth between

her native Hindu and English which causes the stutter...but from what I know

none of the reasons I suspect for your daughter wold be the same as the true

impairment of stuttering.

>

> The slow and easy advice would still be the same and would probably work for

any- but if there is articulation therapy going on right now for her I'd stop

that! But I'm not an SLP -and perhaps some of the members here that are can

jump in. Some may have not because it's of course difficult to assess a child

that you don't know in any way.

>

> I'd seek other opinions from at least one other therapist who is respected in

your area on this- someone who you can share all the details of your daughter's

past with.

>

> Here's an interesting article I just read about stuttering (for true

stuttering)

>

> Professors Talk About Stuttering, Their Research in Children

>

> Even though the " The King's Speech " shows how a man coped with stuttering

almost a century ago, the film and its buzz has people talking about the

speech disorder in the 21st century, says two Purdue University stuttering

experts.

>

> " The history of stuttering goes back to the ancient Greeks when people put

pebbles in their mouth to try to cure the problem, " says Anne ,

distinguished professor of speech, language and hearing sciences. " In the 1960s,

parents were told to ignore their child's stuttering, and this movie even

highlights some unconventional therapies. Today we know that early intervention

and therapy can make a difference in that child's life. Thanks to many new

studies of the onset and development of fluency problems in young children and

of the neural bases of stuttering, we have learned so much in the past 20

years. "

>

> and Weber-Fox, a professor of speech, language and hearing

sciences, study stuttering, which is an involuntary hesitation, sound

prolongation or repetition of syllables in speech. Their research project has

been ongoing for many years with the support of the National Institutes of

Health.

>

> " Even though a person stutters, they know exactly what they want to say, "

Weber-Fox says. " Our research shows that the brains of adults and school-age

children who stutter function differently for both listening or silent reading

as well in the coordination of movements for speaking. "

>

> About 1 percent of the world's adult population stutters, but that number is

much larger for preschool-aged children. About 5 percent of four- and

five-year-olds stutter, but many of them grow out of it. and Weber-Fox are

studying why some recover and yet others continue to stutter persistently the

rest of their lives.

>

> They are leading a five-year study, the Purdue Stuttering Project, to

determine any differences between the children who recover and those who don't.

By using a variety of measures - based on brainwaves, physiological signs, motor

control and language - the researchers will be able to look back at the

information at different age points between 4 and 9 years to determine

differences between the children who eventually recover and those who do not.

>

> " When parents ask about treatment for children, they are often told to do

nothing because the child will grow out of it, " says. " Yes, this is true

for many children, but, unfortunately, this can delay the appropriate therapy

that could help those who need it. The information from our research could help

us develop a diagnostic test, and if we are able to diagnose persistent

stuttering at a younger age, we could better target therapy in children. We

believe that early treatment is important because we have more flexibility in

the brain at younger ages and it is easier to learn new patterns of speaking. "

>

> In addition to the British monarch highlighted in " The King's Speech, " other

famous people who have dealt with stuttering include Earl , Marilyn

Monroe and Winston Churchill.

>

> " We hope this film continues to draw attention to how people cope with

stuttering and the research that is taking place, " Weber-Fox says. " This is a

serious disorder. Those who don't seek therapy or who stutter severely struggle

with quality of life issues. For example, children may not raise their hand in

class and adults may not speak on the phone. New discoveries could make a

difference for millions of people. "

>

> Purdue's Department of Speech, Language and Hearing Sciences is ranked one of

the best in the nation by U.S.News & World Report. The graduate program in

speech-language pathology was tied for No. 2 in 2008, and its doctoral program

in audiology was tied for No. 9 the same year.

> http://www.valpolife.com/index.php/community/education/10842

>

> =====

>

February 28, 2011

Hi Nikunj!

About the tongue- that doesn't sound like a stage at all, and I'm looking

forward to seeing if any of the professionals will comment -but of course will

throw in my two cents

I went through your history and this is the first you are bringing up anything

about her tongue -and according to your messages you just traveled about a month

ago to Bangalore to see an expert, was she doing this last month and if so what

did Sowmya say?

Outside of this everything else sounds pretty typical of all here. It is

possible this is a late oral exploration stage but based on all you wrote

doesn't sound like that, or could be she's developed an unusual habit of using

her tongue as a pause for when she's thinking of what she wants to say next

(kind of like when someone says " ummmmm " ) I mean we all have seen people who

after being asked a question... stick their tongue slightly out or to the side

of their mouth at the same moment their eyes shoot up toward the sky, sometimes

as they breath in- classic universal nonverbal visual of " let me think about

that...hmmm "

Tell me again what exactly you are giving your child in the way of supplements-

is it still just the ProEFA...anything else? You aren't using vitamin e

separate are you? Based on some of the messages here if you are I would stop

that -but let me know.

Your child is learning 2 languages, is that correct? Because that would be

known to cause some delays. And as I probably said before in my mega long

message- stuttering can be from stress as well- too much articulation therapy

etc. It also seems as if all are very worried about her, which of course we all

worry about our kids -but it seems at times there may be worry for things that

are not that far outside the norm. It's important that even if we worry we

don't share our concerns in front of our child, or share it in our body language

either. So remember since you are now dealing with some occasional stuttering,

when she is talking -relax your body as if not a care in the world and you have

all day to listen to her.

Also, there really is no way to give a child a definite diagnosis of sensory

integration dysfunction...and the fact your child is a bit over 4 and this is

the first you mention this. Give an example of one of her sensory meltdowns and

when did you first notice this? Who diagnosed it? Sensory meltdowns are not

exactly like normal tantrums -it's like a tantrum times a thousand.

Also, the only way to get a definite diagnosis of anything is with reliable

diagnostic testing. There is no diagnostic testing that I am aware of for

sensory integration dysfunction -and it's something that typically again would

be spotted and diagnosed much earlier- something you would have noticed prior as

well.

You wrote below about the results of the hair testing you did which would have

put your child through some potentially dangerous treatments that some told you

she " definably " had to be chelated. Instead you wisely took a hair sample from

another one of your children to the same people and they came up with the same

results for this other child you say is a genius. The Uncertainty of Hair

Analysis for Trace Metals http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/285/1/83.extract

But back to the tongue- when did this start and has anything changed previous to

when this started as far as therapy or supplements or school placement etc. You

say she's struggling -but does she appear to be frustrated while doing this?

Have you asked her about why she does this (in a laid back way) since she's

talking in full sentences and if so what does she say?

I find going through archives a great way to view the journey thus far

-sometimes the answers to the present issues lie in the road that brought you

here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Start of archives

SLPs in Bangalore??

Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:45 am

Hi,

I live in Kolkata and I'm travelling to Bangalore on 9th Jan, 2011 with my 4

year old daughter for an assessment at the Five center by Sowmya Surendranath

who I believe is an accomplished SLP and his team of Occupational Therapist and

Special Educator.

I was wondering if there is some other really accomplished SLP in Bangalore that

anyone on this group would like to recomment I consult while I'm in Bangalore?

Please let me know.

Thanks,

Nikunj

Has any1 seen tantrums bcoz of STOPPING fish oil?

Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:21 am

Hi,

We experienced something recently which we are just not able to figure out and

really could do with some help from anyone out there. My 3 yr 4 month old

daughter was on ProEFA (we had tried the 2:1 ratio of ProEFA:ProEPA but only

ProEFA worked better for her) since she turned 2 yrs old. At the time she hardly

had any speech. Now she has full speech but with what her speech therapist has

described as a phonological disorder.

As we were not seeing the fish oil making anymore impact on her atleast in so

far as we could make out, we decided to stop the EFAs (she was taking just 1

capsule a day) some 2 weeks ago. Our logic behind doing this was also to see

whether she could become a more sober and reserved child, maybe soft spoken even

as she has mostly been an excited and slightly impatient child with a short

attention span. We were under the impression that the oils increase

hyperactivity while helping in all other areas so we thought it might help her

behaviour.

Instead, what we thought shocked us as she started getting VERY VERY cranky from

the very next day that we stopped the oils.. the likes of which we have not seen

or perhaps seen only once or twice. This crankiness became a daily affair and

continued for 10 days at which point we decided to start her up on the EFAs

again and lo and behold, she was back to her normal self the very same day!

Does someone have any explanation for this drastic impact of the oils on her?

Does it indicate anything which we are not realizing? Would really appreciate

some help/advice from the more experienced and knowledgable parents out there.

Thanks so much in advance.

Nikunj

Sharing my story - the good and the bad

Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:37 pm

Hi,

It's been a while since I posted to this group. Writing now to share my story

about what has happened during the 8-9 months that I have been on this group.

I joined this group when my daughter was approx. 2 yrs of age and had almost no

speech. I had read " The Late Talker " book and came to know of this group.

Subsequently started my daughter on the Nordic Naturals fish oils. Started with

1 ProEFA, then bumped it up to 2 ProEFAs and finally added 1 ProEPA (The ProEPA

was only for a short time - whatever reason, she did not respond very well to it

and we went back to doing 2 ProEFAs only).

Her speech development has been tremendous! I attribute a lot of it to the fish

oils. She will turn 3 yrs old in a month's time and is now speaking in

full-blown sentences! I am really happy with her progress and have been

astounded by it. However, she still has the articulation disorder and I'm

wondering about where I go from here. What do I do? Do I only just continue with

the fish oils? Is there anything specific I can do for the articulation

disorder? Is there any sense in trying Vit E or Cartinine?

I had also joined a BioMed group and after a hair test, those folks are

insisting that she has lead poisoning and I should chelate her for lead. I am

not too convinced because I got the same hair test done for another kid in the

family who is considered to be a genius and his lead levels were 4 times higher

than my daughter's.

Basically, to put it in short, I'm now at a crossroads where I'm TOTALLY and

THOROUGHLY confused about where I go from here. Any advice would be most

welcome.

Thanks,

Nikunj

Hi,

I just got my daughter's Hair Elements Test results from Doctors Data. As you

maybe aware, this is a test done to check for heavy metal toxicity which if

present, can cause speech and language problems, learning disabilities, etc.

Now, as per the counting rules, my daughter is not mercury toxic. However, some

other heavy metals have moderately elevated levels such as Lead (2.3), Antimony

(0.12), Tin (0.33), Silver (0.46), Cadmium (0.14) and Uranium (0.069). A couple

of essential elements are low - Molybdenum (0.049) and Chromium (0.34). However,

the total toxic representation is in the 96th percentile. I am also a member of

a couple of BioMed support groups and according to them, the test

conclusively dictates that I should opt for chelation therapy to remove the

heavy metals from my daughter's brain and body. In fact, they have even

suggested that though she is not showing mercury toxic as per the counting

rules, there are other indications in the test result which indicate mercury

toxicity.

Now, I am completely stumped about whether or not I should opt for chelation. My

daughter, 2.8 yrs old, is speech delayed but is now catching up quite fast. She

has started speaking in sentences though she still has a phonological or

articulation disorder and stammering. Her concentration could be far better and

she is what you would call a fidgety child. However, she has come from hardly

any words to her present state in approx. just about 8 months which I think all

will agree is quite a rapid improvement. Of course, the fish oils have helped

tremendously and so to have the playtime/floortime and speech therapy. Looking

at how she has improved, I'm tempted to not pursue any other road and just let

her be and grow on a normal course. However, the BioMed people tell me that in

doing so, I would be making a big mistake because these heavy metals may not be

making such a huge impact right now but most definitely will in the future. The

impact is said to be to the extent where a briliiant child would become an

average child, an average child would become learning disabled, etc. It can also

cause development delays (my daughter also started walking very late - at 20

months), memory and cognitive issues, etc. Supposedly, the negative impact of

these heavy metals increases as the child grows.

I have been told that I definitely need to chelate my child following the Andy

Cutler DAN protocol which is essential very low and frequent doses of the

chelating agents like DMSA and ALA. I trust this particular group explicitly and

just wanted to get your views on all this and whether or not I should opt for

chelation therapy.

Thanks,

Nikunj

Chelation therapy (Biomed) for my late talker

Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:52 am