Math

[Guest guest]

> But on the other hand he can remember things way way back...something

we did or said from years ago? I wonder what that is all about?>>>>>>>>

Jan it could be because it might be a processing thing as in CAPD or is

it APD now??? as my son takes a while to process things and needs a

whole day to be able to tell me what happened the day before...and yes

he remembers way way back also.

Marj

[Guest guest]

>

> hmmmmmmmmmmmm....weak working memory....would that be why he can

memorize spelling words for the test and 2 weeks later not know how to

spell them?????

Hi Jan. I don't know. My son has no problems with spelling, in fact

is an excellent speller. But I don't think he spells by memorizing,

so I don't know if that has anything at all to do with memory in my

son's case.

> But on the other hand he can remember things way way

back...something we did or said from years ago? I wonder what that is

all about?

There are different types of memory, I know that. I don't understand

all the memory stuff, but I know there is working memory, long-term

memory, visual memory, auditory memory, etc. And processing problems

and speed may play into it. My son has an accurate memory, but has

retrieval problems. It takes him a longer than normal time to respond

to questions and sometimes he just can't. You get " I don't know " to a

seemingly simple question. But, if you do get an answer, you can

trust it to be correct for the most part.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/5/2008 1:45:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kellystar734@... writes:

> But on the other hand he can remember things way way back...something we did or said from years ago? I wonder what that is all about?>>>>>>>>Jan it could be because it might be a processing thing as in CAPD or is it APD now??? as my son takes a while to process things and needs a whole day to be able to tell me what happened the day before...and yes he remembers way way back also.Marj Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.

[Guest guest]

Your school can't test for APD. Some audiologists don't believe it exists so you need to find one who does and who knows how to test for it. A good place to start is

http://www.ncapd.org/php/index.php?menuoption=Professional%20Listings

Elaine

In a message dated 8/5/2008 6:24:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jrushen@... writes:

I just looked it up...CAPD or APD ...boy that makes sense....I think he may definitely have this...I know noise really bothers him and he struggles with his sounds and spelling and reading and writing. Do you know if the school can test for this or should I go to an outside source. Can any audiologist test the kids....my son is 12 3/4.....

thanks,

Jan

Janice Rushen

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From: troyfamilyaol <troyfamilyaol>Subject: Re: ( ) Re: Math Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 5:45 PM

In a message dated 8/5/2008 1:45:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kellystar734 writes:

> But on the other hand he can remember things way way back...something we did or said from years ago? I wonder what that is all about?>>>>>> >>Jan it could be because it might be a processing thing as in CAPD or is it APD now??? as my son takes a while to process things and needs a whole day to be able to tell me what happened the day before...and yes he remembers way way back also.Marj

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[Guest guest]

that sounds very interesting...my son never tells me things right away...like last night he told me that his friend threw his xbox controller and now it doesn't work...I ask him why did you not tell me when it happened...his answer ...I don't know. And now it is 2 days later. Same thing with stuff that happens in school...2 days later he tells me his teacher got in his face and said "Your mind games may work on your mother, but they don't work on me"...OMG....I could not beleive he didn't tell me right away.

Tell me again what CAPD is? I will have to look it up. I know he has a terrible time with the sounding out of words....which I assume might me why he can't spell. He can memorize the words for the test and gets 100 all the time but his spelling is horrible.

Jan

Janice Rushen

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From: kellystar734 <kellystar734@...>Subject: ( ) Re: Math Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 1:16 PM

> But on the other hand he can remember things way way back...something we did or said from years ago? I wonder what that is all about?>>>>>> >>Jan it could be because it might be a processing thing as in CAPD or is it APD now??? as my son takes a while to process things and needs a whole day to be able to tell me what happened the day before...and yes he remembers way way back also.Marj

[Guest guest]

I just looked it up...CAPD or APD ...boy that makes sense....I think he may definitely have this...I know noise really bothers him and he struggles with his sounds and spelling and reading and writing. Do you know if the school can test for this or should I go to an outside source. Can any audiologist test the kids....my son is 12 3/4.....

thanks,

Jan

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide,

Student, Believer, and Giver.

From: troyfamily@... <troyfamily@...>Subject: Re: ( ) Re: Math Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 5:45 PM

In a message dated 8/5/2008 1:45:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kellystar734 writes:

> But on the other hand he can remember things way way back...something we did or said from years ago? I wonder what that is all about?>>>>>> >>Jan it could be because it might be a processing thing as in CAPD or is it APD now??? as my son takes a while to process things and needs a whole day to be able to tell me what happened the day before...and yes he remembers way way back also.Marj

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[Guest guest]

>

> that sounds very interesting...my son never tells me things right

away...like last night he told me that his friend threw his xbox

controller and now it doesn't work...I ask him why did you not tell me

when it happened...his answer ...I don't know. And now it is 2 days

later.

This is working memory and processing speed. I don't think it is

CAPD. My son has excellent auditory processing, one of his greatest

strengths, and he has these problems. In any case, teachers need to

know that this is a disability and not something he is doing on purpose.

And part of this is what they call " theory of mind " . Your son has a

hard time telling " what people know " . If you question your son some

more, you may well find out that he thinks you should have known the

controller was broken. He won't be able to explain why he thinks

that. From what I understand this is an executive dysfunction, a

" sequencing " problem. Our kids get cause and effect messed up because

they don't process things in the right order (or not at all). This is

something a very good speech therapist would need to work on, at least

I've never gotten anywhere with my son on this sort of stuff myself.

Maybe other people have some ideas!

Ruth

[Guest guest]

Wow, a teacher got in his face and said that? That is really terrible! Did you get him away from her?

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

( ) Re: Math Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 1:16 PM

> But on the other hand he can remember things way way back...something we did or said from years ago? I wonder what that is all about?>>>>>> >>Jan it could be because it might be a processing thing as in CAPD or is it APD now??? as my son takes a while to process things and needs a whole day to be able to tell me what happened the day before...and yes he remembers way way back also.Marj No virus found in this incoming message.

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[Guest guest]

no....would you beleive it was his case manager in 5th grade and the 2nd teacher in the inclusion classroom...and then the next year they put him in a very special reading program...only a few teacher are certified to teach it and guess who he got...her again. And, she was still his case manager. This year we will have someone new. TG!jan

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide,

Student, Believer, and Giver.

From: kellystar734 <kellystar734>Subject: ( ) Re: Math Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 1:16 PM

> But on the other hand he can remember things way way back...something we did or said from years ago? I wonder what that is all about?>>>>>> >>Jan it could be because it might be a processing thing as in CAPD or is it APD now??? as my son takes a while to process things and needs a whole day to be able to tell me what happened the day before...and yes he remembers way way back also.Marj No virus found in this incoming message.

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[Guest guest]

Roxanna,Have you tried using materials that show what each number is? In Montessori schools, the first thing you do is to introduce counting. You do the first three numbers first. I would try getting some large beads and string them on either a piece of wire or a string. Have a string with only one bead; have a string with two beads, and have a string with three beads. If you don't think he's up to doing three, you can start with just two.Take the one bead and tell the child, "This is one," and count it.Take the two bead and tell the child, "This is two," and count it.Take the three bead and tell the child, "This is three," and count it.Then ask the child to point to the numbers:"Show me two.""Show me one." etc.. Have him count it each time.Once you think he's really got it, ask him what each one is. LizOn Aug 4, 2008, at 9:44 AM, Roxanna wrote:These are all good ideas. I wondered if anyone has dealt with someone who just cannot grasp basic math at all - I don't mean someone who is slow or needs to learn it or even has trouble learning it. But someone who is educated but just cannot grasp the whole math concept of numbers? My kids all seemed to "get" numbers without being taught. I work with a little guy who has no math concept whatsoever so that even counting is something he does not understand. But I also have a friend with an 18 yo AS boy who is very much the same way - he has no math concept. He still cannot use money or understand change back - all the basic number issues that one needs to be independent. I wondered is anyone has dealt with that kind of math block and if there are any ideas for working with in that? For the little guy I work with, we just work hard at reinforcing simple number concepts and he's still young - I still do not know if he will click into gear at some point on this stuff. But for my friend, her ds is older and this is obviously going to be a major problem in life for him. They've done everything - games, tutoring, different curriculum, etc. It's not going to sink in. RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else... Re: ( ) my son's aide got fired> trying to > 'escape' by crying or having a tantrum. I have such a hard time understanding this. I don't mean this personally to Elaine, but just in general, because it's bothered me for years. Doesn't it indicate a real need either for an escape in some way, or some other level of desperation, at that point? I've been hanging around my son and daughter's autistic peers for 8 years now, hearing this same type of explanation while the behaviors never change year to year, and I don't understand how kids who are struggling so much with day to day stuff on so many levels, simultaneously have the social giftedness to be able to manipulate and control whole roomfuls of people. I hear this type of explanation from a lot of the parents and educators at both my kids' schools (self contained and a magnet program) and it never makes sense to me - "they just want (attention, to get out of doing their work, etc.)" - ??? Why do they "need" to get to the point of throwing a tantrum to get those things, if that's really what they need or want?When I see the kids in my son's class getting close to meltdowns, it seems like it's because they've been pushed to the breaking point by something that nobody seemed to notice until almost too late - another child's noises, work that's too frustrating or tedious, needing a sensory break, bad headaches or stomachaches after lunch (most of the kids are not biomedically treated), no sleep the night before - I mean it's not acceptable to throw yourself on the ground, especially in middle and upper grades, and I don't allow tantrums at all here, but when my kids used to have them I always thought it was a clue to what *I* had done wrong, and figured it out that way. Why don't the teachers see it like, wow we better change things around so that kid isn't getting to the point of being out of control here, rather than "oh you know that kid, he just wants ___" ? There's one aide at my son's school who, the minute kids start to show some distress, like they're getting to a point where they need a break, starts yelling at them and getting rough with them. This always ends up with the kid throwing a tantrum (except my son), and then she gets sarcastic and says that the child just wanted to get out of finishing their work, and then makes them sit and finish it. My daughter has seen this a few times and she's like, "mom, doesnt she know (child's name) has autism?" Am I being naive? Are other people's kids crafty manipulators and I just think too well of children? That might be true, I tend to give children the benefit of the doubt, but maybe there really are some just plain lazy kids out there whose goal when they come to school is work avoidance? Do you think behavior techniques have a place when a child gets to this point of frustration? It just seems so cold and abandoning to me to use those methods with a child in so much distress. AmyNo virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 - Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:39 AMSök efter kärleken! Hitta din tvillingsjäl på Dejting: http://se.meetic. .netNo virus found in this incoming message.

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[Guest guest]

How about matching collections of things and the numbers they represent. Either actual objects or stickers or pictures on a card.

â— â— â—

â— â— â— match with 6

Also play the Family Math "Number Guess" game. The basic idea is that one person thinks of a secret number and the other person has to guess it. When guesses are made, the person with the secret number has to give responses like "No, that number is too big. or No, that number is too small. You can increase the range of numbers after the child gets good at ) to 10. You put markers on the numbers guessed.

Elaine

0

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

In a message dated 8/8/2008 3:25:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, madideas@... writes:

My little guy is not that far along even. He still has trouble with "more", "Less", etc. I teach these concepts and he gets them but cannot hold them in his head for long.

I no longer make his curriculum and the people who do have started teaching him numbers and counting both. He recognizes number to 10 easily and out of order, which we also did before. But he does not understand that these numbers stand for something - for an amount. We count things all the time in tutoring. And we do a trial of "How many?" as well. But it hasn't clicked for him yet.

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

Re: ( ) my son's aide got fired

> trying to > 'escape' by crying or having a tantrum. I have such a hard time understanding this. I don't mean this personally to Elaine, but just in general, because it's bothered me for years. Doesn't it indicate a real need either for an escape in some way, or some other level of desperation, at that point? I've been hanging around my son and daughter's autistic peers for 8 years now, hearing this same type of explanation while the behaviors never change year to year, and I don't understand how kids who are struggling so much with day to day stuff on so many levels, simultaneously have the social giftedness to be able to manipulate and control whole roomfuls of people. I hear this type of explanation from a lot of the parents and educators at both my kids' schools (self contained and a magnet program) and it never makes sense to me - "they just want (attention, to get out of doing their work, etc.)" - ??? Why do they "need" to get to the point of throwing a tantrum to get those things, if that's really what they need or want?When I see the kids in my son's class getting close to meltdowns, it seems like it's because they've been pushed to the breaking point by something that nobody seemed to notice until almost too late - another child's noises, work that's too frustrating or tedious, needing a sensory break, bad headaches or stomachaches after lunch (most of the kids are not biomedically treated), no sleep the night before - I mean it's not acceptable to throw yourself on the ground, especially in middle and upper grades, and I don't allow tantrums at all here, but when my kids used to have them I always thought it was a clue to what *I* had done wrong, and figured it out that way. Why don't the teachers see it like, wow we better change things around so that kid isn't getting to the point of being out of control here, rather than "oh you know that kid, he just wants ___" ? There's one aide at my son's school who, the minute kids start to show some distress, like they're getting to a point where they need a break, starts yelling at them and getting rough with them. This always ends up with the kid throwing a tantrum (except my son), and then she gets sarcastic and says that the child just wanted to get out of finishing their work, and then makes them sit and finish it. My daughter has seen this a few times and she's like, "mom, doesnt she know (child's name) has autism?" Am I being naive? Are other people's kids crafty manipulators and I just think too well of children? That might be true, I tend to give children the benefit of the doubt, but maybe there really are some just plain lazy kids out there whose goal when they come to school is work avoidance? Do you think behavior techniques have a place when a child gets to this point of frustration? It just seems so cold and abandoning to me to use those methods with a child in so much distress. AmyNo virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 - Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:39 AM

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[Guest guest]

My little guy is not that far along even. He still has trouble with "more", "Less", etc. I teach these concepts and he gets them but cannot hold them in his head for long.

I no longer make his curriculum and the people who do have started teaching him numbers and counting both. He recognizes number to 10 easily and out of order, which we also did before. But he does not understand that these numbers stand for something - for an amount. We count things all the time in tutoring. And we do a trial of "How many?" as well. But it hasn't clicked for him yet.

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

Re: ( ) my son's aide got fired

> trying to > 'escape' by crying or having a tantrum. I have such a hard time understanding this. I don't mean this personally to Elaine, but just in general, because it's bothered me for years. Doesn't it indicate a real need either for an escape in some way, or some other level of desperation, at that point? I've been hanging around my son and daughter's autistic peers for 8 years now, hearing this same type of explanation while the behaviors never change year to year, and I don't understand how kids who are struggling so much with day to day stuff on so many levels, simultaneously have the social giftedness to be able to manipulate and control whole roomfuls of people. I hear this type of explanation from a lot of the parents and educators at both my kids' schools (self contained and a magnet program) and it never makes sense to me - "they just want (attention, to get out of doing their work, etc.)" - ??? Why do they "need" to get to the point of throwing a tantrum to get those things, if that's really what they need or want?When I see the kids in my son's class getting close to meltdowns, it seems like it's because they've been pushed to the breaking point by something that nobody seemed to notice until almost too late - another child's noises, work that's too frustrating or tedious, needing a sensory break, bad headaches or stomachaches after lunch (most of the kids are not biomedically treated), no sleep the night before - I mean it's not acceptable to throw yourself on the ground, especially in middle and upper grades, and I don't allow tantrums at all here, but when my kids used to have them I always thought it was a clue to what *I* had done wrong, and figured it out that way. Why don't the teachers see it like, wow we better change things around so that kid isn't getting to the point of being out of control here, rather than "oh you know that kid, he just wants ___" ? There's one aide at my son's school who, the minute kids start to show some distress, like they're getting to a point where they need a break, starts yelling at them and getting rough with them. This always ends up with the kid throwing a tantrum (except my son), and then she gets sarcastic and says that the child just wanted to get out of finishing their work, and then makes them sit and finish it. My daughter has seen this a few times and she's like, "mom, doesnt she know (child's name) has autism?" Am I being naive? Are other people's kids crafty manipulators and I just think too well of children? That might be true, I tend to give children the benefit of the doubt, but maybe there really are some just plain lazy kids out there whose goal when they come to school is work avoidance? Do you think behavior techniques have a place when a child gets to this point of frustration? It just seems so cold and abandoning to me to use those methods with a child in so much distress. AmyNo virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 - Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:39 AM

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[Guest guest]

I have been using items around his room for counting. We have counted markers, chalk, plastic animals, blocks, m & m's. For some reason, the idea just can't click in his head. I can ask him, "How many?" but he cannot answer past the number we are on. So if we are working on "One" he will answer "one" but if I switch to an item of two, he still says, "one." If I introduce "two" - same situation. If I show him "one", he answers "two" because we are on "two." It does not seem to sink in that the number means how many items. It's like a hopeless circle right now. ARGH!!! I do wonder if those touchpoints numbers might help him click it into gear? I should see about getting some and try it out.

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

Re: ( ) my son's aide got fired

> trying to > 'escape' by crying or having a tantrum. I have such a hard time understanding this. I don't mean this personally to Elaine, but just in general, because it's bothered me for years. Doesn't it indicate a real need either for an escape in some way, or some other level of desperation, at that point? I've been hanging around my son and daughter's autistic peers for 8 years now, hearing this same type of explanation while the behaviors never change year to year, and I don't understand how kids who are struggling so much with day to day stuff on so many levels, simultaneously have the social giftedness to be able to manipulate and control whole roomfuls of people. I hear this type of explanation from a lot of the parents and educators at both my kids' schools (self contained and a magnet program) and it never makes sense to me - "they just want (attention, to get out of doing their work, etc.)" - ??? Why do they "need" to get to the point of throwing a tantrum to get those things, if that's really what they need or want?When I see the kids in my son's class getting close to meltdowns, it seems like it's because they've been pushed to the breaking point by something that nobody seemed to notice until almost too late - another child's noises, work that's too frustrating or tedious, needing a sensory break, bad headaches or stomachaches after lunch (most of the kids are not biomedically treated), no sleep the night before - I mean it's not acceptable to throw yourself on the ground, especially in middle and upper grades, and I don't allow tantrums at all here, but when my kids used to have them I always thought it was a clue to what *I* had done wrong, and figured it out that way. Why don't the teachers see it like, wow we better change things around so that kid isn't getting to the point of being out of control here, rather than "oh you know that kid, he just wants ___" ? There's one aide at my son's school who, the minute kids start to show some distress, like they're getting to a point where they need a break, starts yelling at them and getting rough with them. This always ends up with the kid throwing a tantrum (except my son), and then she gets sarcastic and says that the child just wanted to get out of finishing their work, and then makes them sit and finish it. My daughter has seen this a few times and she's like, "mom, doesnt she know (child's name) has autism?" Am I being naive? Are other people's kids crafty manipulators and I just think too well of children? That might be true, I tend to give children the benefit of the doubt, but maybe there really are some just plain lazy kids out there whose goal when they come to school is work avoidance? Do you think behavior techniques have a place when a child gets to this point of frustration? It just seems so cold and abandoning to me to use those methods with a child in so much distress. AmyNo virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 - Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:39 AM

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[Guest guest]

Lay out a set of ONE m & m and a set of TWO m & m's. Tell him to point to the set has 2 m & m's. Do the pointing thing for a long time. Only when he's doing the pointing reliably do you ask him "how many." There is a real difference between pointing to the one that has two and answering "what one is that?" In the first instance, you're giving him a little cue. It might be worth a try.LizOn Aug 8, 2008, at 12:30 PM, Roxanna wrote:I have been using items around his room for counting. We have counted markers, chalk, plastic animals, blocks, m & m's. For some reason, the idea just can't click in his head. I can ask him, "How many?" but he cannot answer past the number we are on. So if we are working on "One" he will answer "one" but if I switch to an item of two, he still says, "one." If I introduce "two" - same situation. If I show him "one", he answers "two" because we are on "two." It does not seem to sink in that the number means how many items. It's like a hopeless circle right now. ARGH!!! I do wonder if those touchpoints numbers might help him click it into gear? I should see about getting some and try it out.RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else... Re: ( ) my son's aide got fired> trying to > 'escape' by crying or having a tantrum. I have such a hard time understanding this. I don't mean this personally to Elaine, but just in general, because it's bothered me for years. Doesn't it indicate a real need either for an escape in some way, or some other level of desperation, at that point? I've been hanging around my son and daughter's autistic peers for 8 years now, hearing this same type of explanation while the behaviors never change year to year, and I don't understand how kids who are struggling so much with day to day stuff on so many levels, simultaneously have the social giftedness to be able to manipulate and control whole roomfuls of people. I hear this type of explanation from a lot of the parents and educators at both my kids' schools (self contained and a magnet program) and it never makes sense to me - "they just want (attention, to get out of doing their work, etc.)" - ??? Why do they "need" to get to the point of throwing a tantrum to get those things, if that's really what they need or want?When I see the kids in my son's class getting close to meltdowns, it seems like it's because they've been pushed to the breaking point by something that nobody seemed to notice until almost too late - another child's noises, work that's too frustrating or tedious, needing a sensory break, bad headaches or stomachaches after lunch (most of the kids are not biomedically treated), no sleep the night before - I mean it's not acceptable to throw yourself on the ground, especially in middle and upper grades, and I don't allow tantrums at all here, but when my kids used to have them I always thought it was a clue to what *I* had done wrong, and figured it out that way. Why don't the teachers see it like, wow we better change things around so that kid isn't getting to the point of being out of control here, rather than "oh you know that kid, he just wants ___" ? There's one aide at my son's school who, the minute kids start to show some distress, like they're getting to a point where they need a break, starts yelling at them and getting rough with them. This always ends up with the kid throwing a tantrum (except my son), and then she gets sarcastic and says that the child just wanted to get out of finishing their work, and then makes them sit and finish it. My daughter has seen this a few times and she's like, "mom, doesnt she know (child's name) has autism?" Am I being naive? Are other people's kids crafty manipulators and I just think too well of children? That might be true, I tend to give children the benefit of the doubt, but maybe there really are some just plain lazy kids out there whose goal when they come to school is work avoidance? Do you think behavior techniques have a place when a child gets to this point of frustration? It just seems so cold and abandoning to me to use those methods with a child in so much distress. AmyNo virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 - Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:39 AMSök efter kärleken! Hitta din tvillingsjäl på Dejting: http://se.meetic. .netNo virus found in this incoming message.

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[Guest guest]

That's a great exercise. First, though, the child needs to know how to count the dots. He also needs to know his numbers. I assume we're talking about the child Roxanna's working with? If not, sorry about that. These things happen after 50.LizOn Aug 8, 2008, at 12:55 PM, troyfamily@... wrote:How about matching collections of things and the numbers they represent. Either actual objects or stickers or pictures on a card. ◠◠◠◠◠◠match with 6 Also play the Family Math "Number Guess" game. The basic idea is that one person thinks of a secret number and the other person has to guess it. When guesses are made, the person with the secret number has to give responses like "No, that number is too big. or No, that number is too small. You can increase the range of numbers after the child gets good at ) to 10. You put markers on the numbers guessed. Elaine 0123456789 10 In a message dated 8/8/2008 3:25:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, madideaszoominternet (DOT) net writes:My little guy is not that far along even. He still has trouble with "more", "Less", etc. I teach these concepts and he gets them but cannot hold them in his head for long. I no longer make his curriculum and the people who do have started teaching him numbers and counting both. He recognizes number to 10 easily and out of order, which we also did before. But he does not understand that these numbers stand for something - for an amount. We count things all the time in tutoring. And we do a trial of "How many?" as well. But it hasn't clicked for him yet. RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else... Re: ( ) my son's aide got fired> trying to > 'escape' by crying or having a tantrum. I have such a hard time understanding this. I don't mean this personally to Elaine, but just in general, because it's bothered me for years. Doesn't it indicate a real need either for an escape in some way, or some other level of desperation, at that point? I've been hanging around my son and daughter's autistic peers for 8 years now, hearing this same type of explanation while the behaviors never change year to year, and I don't understand how kids who are struggling so much with day to day stuff on so many levels, simultaneously have the social giftedness to be able to manipulate and control whole roomfuls of people. I hear this type of explanation from a lot of the parents and educators at both my kids' schools (self contained and a magnet program) and it never makes sense to me - "they just want (attention, to get out of doing their work, etc.)" - ??? Why do they "need" to get to the point of throwing a tantrum to get those things, if that's really what they need or want?When I see the kids in my son's class getting close to meltdowns, it seems like it's because they've been pushed to the breaking point by something that nobody seemed to notice until almost too late - another child's noises, work that's too frustrating or tedious, needing a sensory break, bad headaches or stomachaches after lunch (most of the kids are not biomedically treated), no sleep the night before - I mean it's not acceptable to throw yourself on the ground, especially in middle and upper grades, and I don't allow tantrums at all here, but when my kids used to have them I always thought it was a clue to what *I* had done wrong, and figured it out that way. Why don't the teachers see it like, wow we better change things around so that kid isn't getting to the point of being out of control here, rather than "oh you know that kid, he just wants ___" ? There's one aide at my son's school who, the minute kids start to show some distress, like they're getting to a point where they need a break, starts yelling at them and getting rough with them. This always ends up with the kid throwing a tantrum (except my son), and then she gets sarcastic and says that the child just wanted to get out of finishing their work, and then makes them sit and finish it. My daughter has seen this a few times and she's like, "mom, doesnt she know (child's name) has autism?" Am I being naive? Are other people's kids crafty manipulators and I just think too well of children? That might be true, I tend to give children the benefit of the doubt, but maybe there really are some just plain lazy kids out there whose goal when they come to school is work avoidance? Do you think behavior techniques have a place when a child gets to this point of frustration? It just seems so cold and abandoning to me to use those methods with a child in so much distress. AmyNo virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 - Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:39 AMSök efter kärleken! Hitta din tvillingsjäl på Dejting: http://se.meetic. .netNo virus found in this incoming message.

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[Guest guest]



Yes, I was talking about the little guy I work with. He definitely cannot count items yet.

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

Re: ( ) my son's aide got fired

> trying to > 'escape' by crying or having a tantrum. I have such a hard time understanding this. I don't mean this personally to Elaine, but just in general, because it's bothered me for years. Doesn't it indicate a real need either for an escape in some way, or some other level of desperation, at that point? I've been hanging around my son and daughter's autistic peers for 8 years now, hearing this same type of explanation while the behaviors never change year to year, and I don't understand how kids who are struggling so much with day to day stuff on so many levels, simultaneously have the social giftedness to be able to manipulate and control whole roomfuls of people. I hear this type of explanation from a lot of the parents and educators at both my kids' schools (self contained and a magnet program) and it never makes sense to me - "they just want (attention, to get out of doing their work, etc.)" - ??? Why do they "need" to get to the point of throwing a tantrum to get those things, if that's really what they need or want?When I see the kids in my son's class getting close to meltdowns, it seems like it's because they've been pushed to the breaking point by something that nobody seemed to notice until almost too late - another child's noises, work that's too frustrating or tedious, needing a sensory break, bad headaches or stomachaches after lunch (most of the kids are not biomedically treated), no sleep the night before - I mean it's not acceptable to throw yourself on the ground, especially in middle and upper grades, and I don't allow tantrums at all here, but when my kids used to have them I always thought it was a clue to what *I* had done wrong, and figured it out that way. Why don't the teachers see it like, wow we better change things around so that kid isn't getting to the point of being out of control here, rather than "oh you know that kid, he just wants ___" ? There's one aide at my son's school who, the minute kids start to show some distress, like they're getting to a point where they need a break, starts yelling at them and getting rough with them. This always ends up with the kid throwing a tantrum (except my son), and then she gets sarcastic and says that the child just wanted to get out of finishing their work, and then makes them sit and finish it. My daughter has seen this a few times and she's like, "mom, doesnt she know (child's name) has autism?" Am I being naive? Are other people's kids crafty manipulators and I just think too well of children? That might be true, I tend to give children the benefit of the doubt, but maybe there really are some just plain lazy kids out there whose goal when they come to school is work avoidance? Do you think behavior techniques have a place when a child gets to this point of frustration? It just seems so cold and abandoning to me to use those methods with a child in so much distress. AmyNo virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 - Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:39 AM

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[Guest guest]

I will work on the pointing and see how it goes.

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

Re: ( ) my son's aide got fired

> trying to > 'escape' by crying or having a tantrum. I have such a hard time understanding this. I don't mean this personally to Elaine, but just in general, because it's bothered me for years. Doesn't it indicate a real need either for an escape in some way, or some other level of desperation, at that point? I've been hanging around my son and daughter's autistic peers for 8 years now, hearing this same type of explanation while the behaviors never change year to year, and I don't understand how kids who are struggling so much with day to day stuff on so many levels, simultaneously have the social giftedness to be able to manipulate and control whole roomfuls of people. I hear this type of explanation from a lot of the parents and educators at both my kids' schools (self contained and a magnet program) and it never makes sense to me - "they just want (attention, to get out of doing their work, etc.)" - ??? Why do they "need" to get to the point of throwing a tantrum to get those things, if that's really what they need or want?When I see the kids in my son's class getting close to meltdowns, it seems like it's because they've been pushed to the breaking point by something that nobody seemed to notice until almost too late - another child's noises, work that's too frustrating or tedious, needing a sensory break, bad headaches or stomachaches after lunch (most of the kids are not biomedically treated), no sleep the night before - I mean it's not acceptable to throw yourself on the ground, especially in middle and upper grades, and I don't allow tantrums at all here, but when my kids used to have them I always thought it was a clue to what *I* had done wrong, and figured it out that way. Why don't the teachers see it like, wow we better change things around so that kid isn't getting to the point of being out of control here, rather than "oh you know that kid, he just wants ___" ? There's one aide at my son's school who, the minute kids start to show some distress, like they're getting to a point where they need a break, starts yelling at them and getting rough with them. This always ends up with the kid throwing a tantrum (except my son), and then she gets sarcastic and says that the child just wanted to get out of finishing their work, and then makes them sit and finish it. My daughter has seen this a few times and she's like, "mom, doesnt she know (child's name) has autism?" Am I being naive? Are other people's kids crafty manipulators and I just think too well of children? That might be true, I tend to give children the benefit of the doubt, but maybe there really are some just plain lazy kids out there whose goal when they come to school is work avoidance? Do you think behavior techniques have a place when a child gets to this point of frustration? It just seems so cold and abandoning to me to use those methods with a child in so much distress. AmyNo virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1585 - Release Date: 8/1/2008 6:39 AM

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[Guest guest]

Dear Crystal,

 

 

Humulin 50/50 Insulin is

50% HUMAN INSULIN ISOPHANE SUSPENSION

and

50% HUMAN INSULIN INJECTION (rDNA ORIGIN)

It is available as 100 Units per mL (U-100) and usually comes in a 10 ml clear

glass container.

 

That being said, you are correct that the pt recieving 6 units per dose, two

doses per day (q12H = every twelve hours) will have 12 units per day.

 

Since

 

100 units............12units

................... = ..................

1 ml......................X ml

 

1 x 12/100 = 0.12 ml (per day)

 

However the latter part of your math is incorrect:

 

12 units-----------70 units

------------=-----------------

1 day-------------X Days

 

1 x 70/12 = 5.83 days

 

This means that the patient will get 5 FULL days of dosages out of this bottle.

We can not round up to 6 because the bottle is lacking 0.17 days worth of

dosing.

 

To be most correct it would last 5 days plus one dose. But theinsurance uses

full days supply, therefore only 5 days will be the days supply.

 

Please not where you multiplied you should have divided. I believe you did in

your calculator, but not on 'paper' (text/post). 

 

I hopet his helps you out. Please feel free to post again, especially if you

still have questions about this particular math problem that I have not

addressed or you still are concerned about.

 

 

Respectfully,

 

Jeanetta Mastron CPhT BS

Pharm Tech Educator

Founder/Owner

PS please note I have had to use periods (.....) and hyphens (---------) as

'spacers' because other wise the ratio/proportion set up would look like this:

 

100 units             12units

                      =

1 ml                        X ml

 

From: crystal zamudio <czamudio18@...>

Subject: MATH

jeanettasPTCBstudygroup

Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 8:20 PM

I JUST WANNA KNOW IF IM RIGHT ON THIS MATH PROBLEM.....you if the day supply is

right or not

 

 

the physician orders humulin 50/50 insulin 6 units .....

 

sig:  6U Q12H

      #70ML

 

EVERY 12 HOURS IS TWO TIMES A DAY SO THE PATIENT IS TAKING 12 U A DAY.....SO THE

QUANITY (70ML) X 12 U = 6 DAYS

 

 

 

 

SO ANYONE IS MY DAY SUPPLY RIGHT.....

 

CRYSTAL

 

 

     

[Guest guest]

thank you it does make sence...i just wanted to make sure how to do the day

supply because its important to input in the pht computer. i dont wanna be

making mistakes....

From: crystal zamudio <czamudio18 (DOT) com>

Subject: [JeanettasPTCBStudy Group] MATH

jeanettasPTCBstudyg roup@groups .com

Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 8:20 PM

I JUST WANNA KNOW IF IM RIGHT ON THIS MATH PROBLEM..... you if the day supply is

right or not

 

 

the physician orders humulin 50/50 insulin 6 units .....

 

sig:  6U Q12H

      #70ML

 

EVERY 12 HOURS IS TWO TIMES A DAY SO THE PATIENT IS TAKING 12 U A DAY.....SO THE

QUANITY (70ML) X 12 U = 6 DAYS

 

 

 

 

SO ANYONE IS MY DAY SUPPLY RIGHT.....

 

CRYSTAL

 

 

     

[Guest guest]

You are welcome, Crystal.

Glad you understood it!

Jeanetta Mastron CPhT BS

F/O

>

> From: crystal zamudio <czamudio18 (DOT) com>

> Subject: [JeanettasPTCBStudy Group] MATH

> jeanettasPTCBstudyg roup@groups .com

> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 8:20 PM

>

> I JUST WANNA KNOW IF IM RIGHT ON THIS MATH PROBLEM..... you if the

day supply is right or not

>  

>  

> the physician orders humulin 50/50 insulin 6 units .....

>  

> sig:  6U Q12H

>       #70ML

>  

> EVERY 12 HOURS IS TWO TIMES A DAY SO THE PATIENT IS TAKING 12 U A

DAY.....SO THE QUANITY (70ML) X 12 U = 6 DAYS

>  

>  

>  

>  

> SO ANYONE IS MY DAY SUPPLY RIGHT.....

>  

> CRYSTAL

>  

>  

>

>      

>

>

[Guest guest]

At Niagara College we had the problem that the math department was teaching the

pharmacy math course and it was horrible. What we did was explain to them why

it wasn't straight math and that their " examples " made no sense in the real

world, which was detrimental to students being successful in the program. We

changed the name of the course to specifically include the word PHARMACY and

made it be a mandatory course to be taught by pharmacists so that the math

department could not say they were qualified. I don't remember but I think that

was the only math credit they needed to graduate. It was a battle we fought for

about 2 years to get it out of the math department and taught by pharmacy. The

math department was using a technician math book but would try to adapt

questions like in the book Amoxicillin 250mg so they would make a test question

with amoxicillin 335mg capsules (which don't exist) and wonder why the students

were so confused...

Joy

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for great input!

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

Re: math

At Niagara College we had the problem that the math department was teaching the

pharmacy math course and it was horrible. What we did was explain to them why

it wasn't straight math and that their " examples " made no sense in the real

world, which was detrimental to students being successful in the program. We

changed the name of the course to specifically include the word PHARMACY and

made it be a mandatory course to be taught by pharmacists so that the math

department could not say they were qualified. I don't remember but I think that

was the only math credit they needed to graduate. It was a battle we fought for

about 2 years to get it out of the math department and taught by pharmacy. The

math department was using a technician math book but would try to adapt

questions like in the book Amoxicillin 250mg so they would make a test question

with amoxicillin 335mg capsules (which don't exist) and wonder why the students

were so confused...

Joy

[Guest guest]

Yes this is why I like the math for each specific course to be focused andnot

together. There ARE math books for 'allied health workers/students' to cover all

health care math. That is so much baloney! And a math department can not teach

physics math either! Same reason! You may understand finite math but if you can

not apply the principles to the specific task at hand it is useless.

Jeanetta Mastron CPhT BS

Pharm Tech Educator

Founder/Owner

>

> At Niagara College we had the problem that the math department was teaching

the pharmacy math course and it was horrible. What we did was explain to them

why it wasn't straight math and that their " examples " made no sense in the real

world, which was detrimental to students being successful in the program. We

changed the name of the course to specifically include the word PHARMACY and

made it be a mandatory course to be taught by pharmacists so that the math

department could not say they were qualified. I don't remember but I think that

was the only math credit they needed to graduate. It was a battle we fought for

about 2 years to get it out of the math department and taught by pharmacy. The

math department was using a technician math book but would try to adapt

questions like in the book Amoxicillin 250mg so they would make a test question

with amoxicillin 335mg capsules (which don't exist) and wonder why the students

were so confused...

> Joy

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ana,

Can someone please help me solve these two problems!!!

1)How much D70W 1000ml is needed to make a D12.5W 250ml?

C1 x V1 = C2 x V2

D12.5W x 250ml = D70W x V2

12.5% x 250ml = 70% x V2

12.5% x 250ml = 70% x V2

70%-------------70%

12.5 x 250ml = x V2

70

44.64 ml = V2

Check:

12.5% x 250ml = 70% x V2

12.5% x 250ml = 70% x 44.64 ml

3125 = 3124.8

3125 ~ 3124.8

2)How much of a D20W 1000ml and D5W 1000ml is needed to make a D8.5W 400ml?

For this I would use an alligation method

I suggest tht you use my tutorial in the Files Section Folder # 5 for Tutorials

and open to Math Only Tutorials then to the Alligation Tutorial

This method uses a diagram that is best drawn on a word document. The HTML does

not do well with this type of a set up.

Let Me know how it works out for you.

Jeanetta Mastron CPHT BS

Founder/Owner

>

> Can someone please help me solve these two problems!!!

>

> 1)How much D70W 1000ml is needed to make a D12.5W 250ml?

>

> 2)How much of a D20W 1000ml and D5W 1000ml is needed to make a D8.5W 400ml?

>

[Guest guest]

Files > 5- Tutorial-1 & Study Information > S 8- Math Tutorials Only >

4. Alligations > Alligation II

>

> Can someone please help me solve these two problems!!!

>

> 1)How much D70W 1000ml is needed to make a D12.5W 250ml?

>

> 2)How much of a D20W 1000ml and D5W 1000ml is needed to make a D8.5W 400ml?

>