new to the group

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the info and for being spacific about the enzyme

name. There are a lot out there and I'd like to start with the most

popular.

Helene

> Hi, I am new to this group. I have been reading the GF/CF

board for

> a long time and saw that alot of people are using enzymes to

replay or

> suppliment the diet. I would like to try this with my son, who

has

> multipul food allergies as well as PDD-NOS and ADHD. I really

> believe that enzymes will help him in all areas. Does anyone have

a

> suggestion as to which type of enzyme is best to start with? Is

> Houston better than Kirkman? Should I use no-fenol along with the

> enzymes? There seem to be a variety of choices out there. Any

> suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Helene

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>>Does anyone have a

> suggestion as to which type of enzyme is best to start with? Is

> Houston better than Kirkman?

HNI was very beneficial for my family.

>>Should I use no-fenol along with the

> enzymes?

For ADHD, yes definitely consider No-Fenol.

Dana

[Guest guest]

> Hi, I am new to this group. I have been reading the GF/CF

board for

> a long time and saw that alot of people are using enzymes to

replay or

> suppliment the diet. I would like to try this with my son, who

has

> multipul food allergies as well as PDD-NOS and ADHD. I really

> believe that enzymes will help him in all areas. Does anyone have

a

> suggestion as to which type of enzyme is best to start with? Is

> Houston better than Kirkman? Should I use no-fenol along with the

> enzymes? There seem to be a variety of choices out there. Any

> suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Helene

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I have a 7 year old daughter who has as. I know what you are going through.

I too tried to keep a journal and I found no simularities between them as

well. I have gotten my daughter to sit down and do puzzles and play quiet games

with me and that seems to help, sometimes...one day it works the next it

doesn't. Maybe try to find distractions for him when he starts in with the

screaming.

Coloring and reading are great too.

My daughter goes on spring break on the 10th and I am absollutlly dreading

that time too..I hear yah girl!

Keep strong and I hope that some of my suggestions help you.

erica

[Guest guest]

Subject: ( ) New to the Group

Hi. I have a 4 year old son with Asperger's and a 2 1/2 year old son

with mild/moderate (depends on which doctor you ask) autism. My

oldest () was just diagnosed a few months ago. At first it was a

relief -- the diagnosis just answered a lot of questions we had about

why he did certain things -- but now I am just worn out.

He is a very active boy, which I can work with, but he

screams/screeches a lot during the day. I have tried to journal to

find out what is causing the screaming, but I can't find any

similarities between episodes. Has anyone gone through this? Can

anyone give me any helpful hints on how to stop this? He is home on

Spring Break this week and I don't know if I'll survive the next 5

days!

Thanks for any ideas.

Wow! I have one of these here! My 9 yo used to scream a lot, always had to

be making some kind of noise at all times. It is exhausting and I don't

know why either, other than just the stim factor that making noise provides?

Anyway, we've been trying various meds to get him to stop this. Nothing

else tried was working except this. I hope you can survive spring break!

Roxanna

[Guest guest]

Noise, Noise, Noise, all the time Noise! For no reason at all. I had to pick him

up from school and wait for dad to pick him up at my work. He made all sorts of

noise watching TV. I had to go to the back where the TV is and say quite down

several times. In the shower and while he is playing in his room. I have had to

tell him to hush so I could hear the radio in the car. I keep hoping he will

grow out of it before I have a path worn out in my floor from every room in the

house to his door. My best weapon at night is " if I hear one more loud sound I

will turn your TV off for the rest of the night " . With all the homework and

extra work he does down time is very important to him.

---------------------------------

Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using

Messenger with Voice.

[Guest guest]

my son of 6 does the same thing. all the time " swooshing "

and " clicking and clacking " noises he calls it playing. i know what

hes doing, he playing what he calls " nijas or power rangers " in his

head and providing sound effects. trust me i know how frustrating

all the noise can be. everywhere we go any spare moment he has he

is " playing " to himself. im pretty sure its harmless and just a way

for him to express himself. if this is the same problem you have

maybe you just need to learn more patience.

>

>

>

> Noise, Noise, Noise, all the time Noise! For no reason at all. I

had to pick him up from school and wait for dad to pick him up at my

work. He made all sorts of noise watching TV. I had to go to the

back where the TV is and say quite down several times. In the shower

and while he is playing in his room. I have had to tell him to hush

so I could hear the radio in the car. I keep hoping he will grow out

of it before I have a path worn out in my floor from every room in

the house to his door. My best weapon at night is " if I hear one

more loud sound I will turn your TV off for the rest of the night " .

With all the homework and extra work he does down time is very

important to him.

>

> ---------------------------------

> Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using

Messenger with Voice.

>

>

[Guest guest]

My kids did, and I think they still do, what they call " daydreaming. "

This involves acting out a little story. Sometimes it involves making

noises; it always involves, in 's case, a six foot body leaping

around the room. It's great for the imagination. I have no problem with

it. Except sometimes when has chosen to daydream in my bedroom

and I want to go to bed in it. LOL Then we have Words and he goes

downstairs.

My kids have always been quietly noisy. My dd had this little hum that

she made when she was concentrating. It drove her Montessori teacher

nuts.

Everybody's tolerance for noise is different. I have a pretty high

tolerance for noise. But then, I've got only one kid at home now. And

the only thing he does is leap around the room. And wrassle with his

father. Now THAT'S noisy!!!

Liz

On Apr 11, 2006, at 2:31 PM, mpflutterby wrote:

> my son of 6 does the same thing. all the time " swooshing "

> and " clicking and clacking " noises he calls it playing. i know what

> hes doing, he playing what he calls " nijas or power rangers " in his

> head and providing sound effects. trust me i know how frustrating

> all the noise can be. everywhere we go any spare moment he has he

> is " playing " to himself. im pretty sure its harmless and just a way

> for him to express himself. if this is the same problem you have

> maybe you just need to learn more patience.

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> >

> >

> > Noise, Noise, Noise, all the time Noise! For no reason at all. I

> had to pick him up from school and wait for dad to pick him up at

my

> work. He made all sorts of noise watching TV. I had to go to the

> back where the TV is and say quite down several times. In the

shower

> and while he is playing in his room. I have had to tell him to hush

> so I could hear the radio in the car. I keep hoping he will grow

out

> of it before I have a path worn out in my floor from every room in

> the house to his door. My best weapon at night is " if I hear one

> more loud sound I will turn your TV off for the rest of the night " .

> With all the homework and extra work he does down time is very

> important to him.

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using

> Messenger with Voice.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I can relate to the noise thing. My son likes to hum all the time.

He is at school right now so I was going to have a nice quiet house

while I made birthday cake (wheat-free) and next thing I know there is

this horrible shrill sound in the kitchen. My son collects electronic

gadgets and one of them was a timer with a magnet that he stuck to the

fridge. It took me 40 minutes to figure out exactly where the

horrible noise was coming from because I could only stand it for a bit

then would have to leave the room for a while. Thank goodness I

finally found it and took the battery out. (It wouldn't quit when I

pushed stop or cancel or anything!)

Kathy J.

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicki,

that is nice for you to offer help for your sister & niece. What are the

concerns you have with your niece? is it with academics?, social skills?,

behavior?, meltdowns?, other? This is a very helpful group with lots of people

with lots of advice. Does she have an IEP in her school? You might want to

find out if your school district that your in is familiar with autism/aspergers.

This is just my opinion, public school works great for us because all the

services are right their during school. Other people that wrote in expressed

private school worked best for them and had special services at home or after

school. each child with AS is so different. another thing I do is read all post

and take notes with the ones we can relate with. do you have children of your

own that live with you? If so, you might want to explain to them what AS is.

This will help them understand your niece. You will learn alot from this group.

Good luck - Rose

Vicki Pinell <decorate4free@...> wrote:

Hello,

I am new to the group. My sister has a daughter, 12 who has aspergers

syndrome and is very frustrated and feels she doesn't have the patience

anymore. She has asked if I would take her for the summer and then have her

go to school here for a year. She is in Nevada and I am in Washington. I

want to do what ever I can to help my sister and provide a positive

environment for my niece. I want to make sure I am doing the right thing,

and wonder what I am getting myself into. Any tips on how handle this

little one would be great.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

Vicki Pinell

Decorating Consultant

Home Interiors & Gifts

Striving to Provide Red Rose Service

<http://www.homeinteriors.com/decorate4free>

www.homeinteriors.com/decorate4free

[Guest guest]

Hi!

There are SOO many different issues with Aspberger's,

or any ASD. You can't really say what " will work " or

" is best " for someone with an ASD. I've heard that

there are as many forms of ASD's than there are people

who have them.

What I have found, and speaking to many others, they

have found, too, that what is best is LISTENING.

LISTEN to your niece and your sister. One of the only

things about ASD's is that they have trouble

socializing, and telling you straight what's going on.

That's why actually trying to actively listen is

essential. Try and figure out what they need. It's

seems simple, but it's hard to do. Actively listen and

figure your neice out. Max says, " I have a bug bite "

....on my leg, arm, etc. After listening and figuring

him out, he's actually trying to tell me that he has a

" boo-boo " . He just can't say the right words.

Actually, he " doesn't say the right words " a lot, and

I have to figure out what he means.

Hope it helps.

- Adrienne

--- Vicki Pinell <decorate4free@...> wrote:

> Hello,

>

> I am new to the group. My sister has a daughter, 12

> who has aspergers

> syndrome and is very frustrated and feels she

> doesn't have the patience

> anymore. She has asked if I would take her for the

> summer and then have her

> go to school here for a year. She is in Nevada and

> I am in Washington. I

> want to do what ever I can to help my sister and

> provide a positive

> environment for my niece. I want to make sure I am

> doing the right thing,

> and wonder what I am getting myself into. Any tips

> on how handle this

> little one would be great.

>

>

>

> Thanks in advance for the advice.

>

>

>

> Vicki Pinell

>

> Decorating Consultant

>

> Home Interiors & Gifts

>

> Striving to Provide Red Rose Service

>

> <http://www.homeinteriors.com/decorate4free>

> www.homeinteriors.com/decorate4free

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

This article might help him to understand what your daughter deals with on a

daily basis:

Pam

BALANCING THE TRAY

by Lenore Gerould (1996), Carbon-Lehigh Right to Education Task Force,

Schnecksville, PA. Distributed by Autism Services Center, Huntington, WV by

kind

permission of the author.

Those of us who have daily contact with children with autism sometimes have

trouble explaining to regular education teachers or administrators the ‘hooks'

of autism; especially the kinds of support they need. You're always trying

to explain the basics, ‘no, moving the pencil sharpener's location in the

classroom is not what upset him. You have to understand that...'. Then I came

up

with this analogy. Perhaps it will help others to visualize the support

needed.

Try to imagine the child balancing a large serving tray on one upturned hand.

Every distress for that child is like a liquid-filled glass you are putting

on this tray. The ‘distress glasses' are unique to each kid; but generally

include things like auditory or visual over-stimulation, social interaction,

'surprises' or unexpected changes in the schedule, lack of clear leadership,

the number of people in the room; whatever is sensitive for that child. (Don't

forget the ability to read the body English and anxiety of the adults around

them!) The size and weight of the 'glass' for that child varies; just like

the 'distress glasses' vary for each kid. Some things are merely shot glass

size, while others can be a two liter jug. At some point the tray is going to

start to wobble - the liquid will start spilling out of the glasses on the

tray. The cues that this is happening will vary kid to kid: just as the cause

and

size of a 'glass' varies kid to kid, but generally include regressive

behavior, avoidance or shutting down, giggling or minor acting out to get

attention.

Hopefully, someone will help the kid rebalance the tray, or remove some

glasses. Perhaps taking a break, or allowing time to refocus or process will

work; again, techniques are unique to each kid. If there's no intervention, the

addition of one more glass will topple the tray to the floor. The cause is not

the most recent 'glass' you added, but the fact that the tray was full or too

heavy (the latter is why the child seems so unpredictable to some people.)

Our efforts should be that the kid learns to hold a bigger tray, or to do

minor correction of the tray's balance somewhat independently, but they will

always carry that wobbling tray. Ignoring cues can be disastrous, from

classroom

disruptions to a major regression. When an autistic kids's tray crashes to

the floor, it is always a major event.That's why, if I hear my son got highly

upset over a moved pencil sharpener and acted out, I do not want to hear that

he has to learn to accept change. The sharpener is immaterial, if I learn

that day he'd dealt with a substitute teacher, a fire drill just as Reading was

starting, dead calculator batteries halfway through Math, a 'crashed'

computer in the middle of English, a late bus so that he missed part of home

room

and some florescent lights in the class are half out - his tray was already

full.

All of the distresses are unavoidable and he'd dealt with them without a

hitch; but each was another glass on this tray. Autistic kids need someone

around who is familiar with them; to sense how full the tray is getting and read

the cues, so there's intervention before that wobbling tray topples to the

floor. That is why the type of support for these kids is critical, not just a

'hot body' nearby - but the 'right hot body' whom they can trust will help

balance and who knows the 'hooks'.

For all of us, life is a balancing act, but for autistic kids the glasses

generally break when they hit the floor and it takes a whole lot longer to clean

up the mess and get a new tray.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jill,

Have him sit with you and read the posts with you. You are right, you can't

discipline the same just as the same discipline doesn't always work for

typical kids. I have three boys all with ASD, High functioning Asperger's,

middle functioning ( just not high) Asperger[s and low functioning autism.

They all get a different form of discipline. I think what people think is

that Aspies can help their behavior, and they simply can't. You can tell

them repeatedly the proper way to react, behave, deal with things, but when

it comes the time of reacting, they forget and do what they know. I would

get some easy reading material for your dh, better yet have him sit and join

in with us. I don't post very often, but I do read and have gained a lot of

information from this group. I am sure that you will as well. Good luck,

Janelle

My spectrum, every day has new colors!!!

-- ( ) New to the Group

My name is Jill and I have a 14yo daughter with Aspergers. She also

has ADHD and OCD. She has been challenging as everyone in this group

knows. I've been reading some of the posts and I'm so glad to find

that some of the things my dd does relates to her condition and is not

something no one else has heard of.

One of my issues does not have to do with her but with my dh. He is

her step-father and we married when she was 12. He doesn't understand

her and tries to deal with her as if she's normal. I don't know how

to explain to him (because I've tried) that normal discipline doesn't

work.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'd be happy to try them.

[Guest guest]

Welcome Jill! I agree, let him read some posts. You really cannot

use typical discipline methods with autistic kids. Heck, my 11 yo

would be in tears all the time. Good luck and again, welcome!

, MS

J, 13, schizoaffective disorder

Lily, Asperger's and mild MR, 11

Ry, Sensory Dysfunction, social anxiety and possible Aspie, 6

K, 14, stepdaughter

A, 17, stepson

B, spouse, angel and untreated bp

>

> My name is Jill and I have a 14yo daughter with Aspergers. She

also

> has ADHD and OCD. She has been challenging as everyone in this

group

> knows. I've been reading some of the posts and I'm so glad to

find

> that some of the things my dd does relates to her condition and is

not

> something no one else has heard of.

> One of my issues does not have to do with her but with my dh. He

is

> her step-father and we married when she was 12. He doesn't

understand

> her and tries to deal with her as if she's normal. I don't know

how

> to explain to him (because I've tried) that normal discipline

doesn't

> work.

> If anyone has any suggestions, I'd be happy to try them.

>

[Guest guest]

Janelle,

I think that people with HFA can learn to behave more appropriately if they

are taught how. The thing is, people do not bother. They assume that a person

with Apergers or HFA are either not capable, or just give up on trying to teach

them.

Social skills are the most vital employment skill you can have. I have three

college degrees and cannot keep a job because I don't understand what people

are " getting at " when they speak. People assume you know what they are saying

when they use, improper English, indirect commands, and body language. Many

times non aspies use it in a combination and expect us to decipher the code and

know what they mean, otherwise they say, we don't listen, are insubordinate,

just incapable of doing the job, or my favorite, " You are just trying to be

difficult " .

I find that when people explain to me, some social rules, customs, and how

others think, it directly improves my ability to communicate with others. Most

people are very direct in their communication. But many others are not. The

best way to help people with Aspies is to explain to them the social rules.

Explain that these social rules DO NOT make any sense, they are not logical,

but they need to memorize them and act accordingly so that they can keep a

job, have friends, and get along with others, they don't have to agree with

them or like them.

I also think that, and pray to God that, someone would create a book that

explaines social rules to people with Aspies. Nobody does. They just expect us

to learn after we anger 100s of people in our lives as we try to figure them

out one by one making their lives, and the lives of others they come in contact

with more unpleasant then need be.

Aspies are like Shasta of the Wolves, we understand a different set of social

rules than human society.

Take Care,

Donovan J Arnold

Janelle <taylermadeone@...> wrote: Hi Jill,

Have him sit with you and read the posts with you. You are right, you can't

discipline the same just as the same discipline doesn't always work for

typical kids. I have three boys all with ASD, High functioning Asperger's,

middle functioning ( just not high) Asperger[s and low functioning autism.

They all get a different form of discipline. I think what people think is

that Aspies can help their behavior, and they simply can't. You can tell

them repeatedly the proper way to react, behave, deal with things, but when

it comes the time of reacting, they forget and do what they know. I would

get some easy reading material for your dh, better yet have him sit and join

in with us. I don't post very often, but I do read and have gained a lot of

information from this group. I am sure that you will as well. Good luck,

Janelle

My spectrum, every day has new colors!!!

-- ( ) New to the Group

My name is Jill and I have a 14yo daughter with Aspergers. She also

has ADHD and OCD. She has been challenging as everyone in this group

knows. I've been reading some of the posts and I'm so glad to find

that some of the things my dd does relates to her condition and is not

something no one else has heard of.

One of my issues does not have to do with her but with my dh. He is

her step-father and we married when she was 12. He doesn't understand

her and tries to deal with her as if she's normal. I don't know how

to explain to him (because I've tried) that normal discipline doesn't

work.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'd be happy to try them.

[Guest guest]

Donovan, that is a wonderful idea! A book that explains social rules to Aspies.

However, it would be difficult to those of us without AS to be able to write it

properly. It seems that someone with your insight, and your academic

background, would be a far better author of such a book. You have the insight

as to why the rules don't make sense. You have the ability to explain the rules

you've come across in such a way as to make sense to others with AS. You also

have an entire bulletin board full of people here who can give you suggestions

as to what is hard to understand, and how it was best explained. I bet it would

be an interesting endeavor, and one that could prove to be very satisfying and

fulfilling.

I hope you will consider writing such a book. There are many here who would be

interested in buying one.

...· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ Mystic -:¦:-

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

Re: ( ) New to the Group

Janelle,

I think that people with HFA can learn to behave more appropriately if they are

taught how. The thing is, people do not bother. They assume that a person with

Apergers or HFA are either not capable, or just give up on trying to teach

them.

Social skills are the most vital employment skill you can have. I have three

college degrees and cannot keep a job because I don't understand what people

are " getting at " when they speak. People assume you know what they are saying

when they use, improper English, indirect commands, and body language. Many

times non aspies use it in a combination and expect us to decipher the code and

know what they mean, otherwise they say, we don't listen, are insubordinate,

just incapable of doing the job, or my favorite, " You are just trying to be

difficult " .

I find that when people explain to me, some social rules, customs, and how

others think, it directly improves my ability to communicate with others. Most

people are very direct in their communication. But many others are not. The

best way to help people with Aspies is to explain to them the social rules.

Explain that these social rules DO NOT make any sense, they are not logical,

but they need to memorize them and act accordingly so that they can keep a

job, have friends, and get along with others, they don't have to agree with

them or like them.

I also think that, and pray to God that, someone would create a book that

explaines social rules to people with Aspies. Nobody does. They just expect us

to learn after we anger 100s of people in our lives as we try to figure them

out one by one making their lives, and the lives of others they come in contact

with more unpleasant then need be.

Aspies are like Shasta of the Wolves, we understand a different set of social

rules than human society.

Take Care,

Donovan J Arnold

[Guest guest]

Mystic,

I think that it would take a combination of both an Aspie and non aspie

because, like me, I don't understand the rules. That is why I am always

crossing them and pissing people off in my daily life. What I think would work

would be if someone wrote what to do in a series of social situations, and the

Aspie could explain why that does not make sense.

I will give you an example. I frequently get called a " know it all " because I

forget to say, " in my opinion " or " it is my understanding " before engaging in a

conversation expressing facts and my opinion. To me, it seems illogical to

state that, because the facts are not mine, and of course it is my opinion, it

isn't the guy next to me, this obvious to anyone with a half a brain. There is

like this rule that I have to add half an hour of garbage before communicating

anything of real substance like;

" I feel based on my experience and understand that. . . .. " If I forget that

nonsense before I speak, people call me a know it all, and ostracize me. It is

very hard to remember to act so irrationally and purposeless before presenting

something of value. But it is something that society expects me to do. There

are lots of these things I have found riddled in human communication and social

constructs that it appears most people have an automatic understand of except

those with Autism.

Another issue I don't understand is the social constructs of conversations in

public. For example, if I see two people in public that are conversing and

arguing over a fact, it is considered rude to intercede and offer the proper

facts. I don't understand why. If I happen to have something that someone is

looking for, why deny them access to it? If I had a blue crayon, and I

overheard someone say, " I need a blue crayon " to the person next to them,

should I not give them the blue crayon? I would think so. Just the same, if a

couple is arguing over if the price of a pound of meat at this grocery store is

cheaper than that one, and I have the price per pound of meat memorized, why

not let the couple know? They need that information. But instead, I am suppose

to ignore them. On the other hand, if they need salt, have a flat tire, or need

a blue crayon, I am suppose to provide that? It is confusing.

Take Care,

Donovan J Arnold

Mystic Whim <mysticwhim@...> wrote:Donovan, that is a wonderful idea!

A book that explains social rules to Aspies. However, it would be difficult to

those of us without AS to be able to write it properly. It seems that someone

with your insight, and your academic background, would be a far better author

of such a book. You have the insight as to why the rules don't make sense.

You have the ability to explain the rules you've come across in such a way as

to make sense to others with AS. You also have an entire bulletin board full

of people here who can give you suggestions as to what is hard to understand,

and how it was best explained. I bet it would be an interesting endeavor, and

one that could prove to be very satisfying and fulfilling.

I hope you will consider writing such a book. There are many here who would

be interested in buying one.

..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ Mystic -:¦:-

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

Re: ( ) New to the Group

Janelle,

I think that people with HFA can learn to behave more appropriately if they

are taught how. The thing is, people do not bother. They assume that a person

with Apergers or HFA are either not capable, or just give up on trying to

teach them.

Social skills are the most vital employment skill you can have. I have three

college degrees and cannot keep a job because I don't understand what people

are " getting at " when they speak. People assume you know what they are saying

when they use, improper English, indirect commands, and body language. Many

times non aspies use it in a combination and expect us to decipher the code

and know what they mean, otherwise they say, we don't listen, are

insubordinate, just incapable of doing the job, or my favorite, " You are just

trying to be difficult " .

I find that when people explain to me, some social rules, customs, and how

others think, it directly improves my ability to communicate with others. Most

people are very direct in their communication. But many others are not. The

best way to help people with Aspies is to explain to them the social rules.

Explain that these social rules DO NOT make any sense, they are not logical,

but they need to memorize them and act accordingly so that they can keep a

job, have friends, and get along with others, they don't have to agree with

them or like them.

I also think that, and pray to God that, someone would create a book that

explaines social rules to people with Aspies. Nobody does. They just expect us

to learn after we anger 100s of people in our lives as we try to figure them

out one by one making their lives, and the lives of others they come in

contact with more unpleasant then need be.

Aspies are like Shasta of the Wolves, we understand a different set of

social rules than human society.

Take Care,

Donovan J Arnold

[Guest guest]

Thanx I found this articel really interesting in particular the part about

acting out when the tray is too full. It was like a light bu;b going off in my

head because lately my son has started to act like a naughty toddler at certain

times. And when I think back to when this has happened it has always preceeded

a meltdown later in the day. Now instead of looking at this as a bad behaviour

issue I can see that it is an early warning sign that the tray is going to

topple if I don't intervene. Thank you so much. Clarity is a beautiful thing.

Cheers

beck

Re: ( ) New to the Group

This article might help him to understand what your daughter deals with on a

daily basis:

Pam

BALANCING THE TRAY

by Lenore Gerould (1996), Carbon-Lehigh Right to Education Task Force,

Schnecksville, PA. Distributed by Autism Services Center, Huntington, WV by

kind

permission of the author.

Those of us who have daily contact with children with autism sometimes have

trouble explaining to regular education teachers or administrators the

‘hooks'

of autism; especially the kinds of support they need. You're always trying

to explain the basics, ‘no, moving the pencil sharpener's location in the

classroom is not what upset him. You have to understand that...'. Then I came

up

with this analogy. Perhaps it will help others to visualize the support

needed.

Try to imagine the child balancing a large serving tray on one upturned hand.

Every distress for that child is like a liquid-filled glass you are putting

on this tray. The ‘distress glasses' are unique to each kid; but generally

include things like auditory or visual over-stimulation, social interaction,

'surprises' or unexpected changes in the schedule, lack of clear leadership,

the number of people in the room; whatever is sensitive for that child.

(Don't

forget the ability to read the body English and anxiety of the adults around

them!) The size and weight of the 'glass' for that child varies; just like

the 'distress glasses' vary for each kid. Some things are merely shot glass

size, while others can be a two liter jug. At some point the tray is going to

start to wobble - the liquid will start spilling out of the glasses on the

tray. The cues that this is happening will vary kid to kid: just as the cause

and

size of a 'glass' varies kid to kid, but generally include regressive

behavior, avoidance or shutting down, giggling or minor acting out to get

attention.

Hopefully, someone will help the kid rebalance the tray, or remove some

glasses. Perhaps taking a break, or allowing time to refocus or process will

work; again, techniques are unique to each kid. If there's no intervention,

the

addition of one more glass will topple the tray to the floor. The cause is not

the most recent 'glass' you added, but the fact that the tray was full or too

heavy (the latter is why the child seems so unpredictable to some people.)

Our efforts should be that the kid learns to hold a bigger tray, or to do

minor correction of the tray's balance somewhat independently, but they will

always carry that wobbling tray. Ignoring cues can be disastrous, from

classroom

disruptions to a major regression. When an autistic kids's tray crashes to

the floor, it is always a major event.That's why, if I hear my son got highly

upset over a moved pencil sharpener and acted out, I do not want to hear that

he has to learn to accept change. The sharpener is immaterial, if I learn

that day he'd dealt with a substitute teacher, a fire drill just as Reading

was

starting, dead calculator batteries halfway through Math, a 'crashed'

computer in the middle of English, a late bus so that he missed part of home

room

and some florescent lights in the class are half out - his tray was already

full.

All of the distresses are unavoidable and he'd dealt with them without a

hitch; but each was another glass on this tray. Autistic kids need someone

around who is familiar with them; to sense how full the tray is getting and

read

the cues, so there's intervention before that wobbling tray topples to the

floor. That is why the type of support for these kids is critical, not just a

'hot body' nearby - but the 'right hot body' whom they can trust will help

balance and who knows the 'hooks'.

For all of us, life is a balancing act, but for autistic kids the glasses

generally break when they hit the floor and it takes a whole lot longer to

clean

up the mess and get a new tray.

[Guest guest]

Speaking of books have any of you read

" the curious incident of the dead dog in the night time " It is meant to be

written from the perspective of a teenage boy with Aspersers and I was wondering

if anyone thought it was even remotely close. I am finding it very interesting

reading so far.

Beck

Re: ( ) New to the Group

Janelle,

I think that people with HFA can learn to behave more appropriately if they

are taught how. The thing is, people do not bother. They assume that a person

with Apergers or HFA are either not capable, or just give up on trying to teach

them.

Social skills are the most vital employment skill you can have. I have three

college degrees and cannot keep a job because I don't understand what people

are " getting at " when they speak. People assume you know what they are saying

when they use, improper English, indirect commands, and body language. Many

times non aspies use it in a combination and expect us to decipher the code and

know what they mean, otherwise they say, we don't listen, are insubordinate,

just incapable of doing the job, or my favorite, " You are just trying to be

difficult " .

I find that when people explain to me, some social rules, customs, and how

others think, it directly improves my ability to communicate with others. Most

people are very direct in their communication. But many others are not. The

best way to help people with Aspies is to explain to them the social rules.

Explain that these social rules DO NOT make any sense, they are not logical,

but they need to memorize them and act accordingly so that they can keep a

job, have friends, and get along with others, they don't have to agree with

them or like them.

I also think that, and pray to God that, someone would create a book that

explaines social rules to people with Aspies. Nobody does. They just expect us

to learn after we anger 100s of people in our lives as we try to figure them

out one by one making their lives, and the lives of others they come in contact

with more unpleasant then need be.

Aspies are like Shasta of the Wolves, we understand a different set of

social rules than human society.

Take Care,

Donovan J Arnold

[Guest guest]

--- My thoughts exactly! You just put it more eloquently than I

could , Mystic!!

Toni

In , Mystic Whim <mysticwhim@...>

wrote:

>

> Donovan, that is a wonderful idea! A book that explains social

rules to Aspies. However, it would be difficult to those of us

without AS to be able to write it properly. It seems that someone

with your insight, and your academic background, would be a far

better author of such a book. You have the insight as to why the

rules don't make sense. You have the ability to explain the rules

you've come across in such a way as to make sense to others with

AS. You also have an entire bulletin board full of people here who

can give you suggestions as to what is hard to understand, and how

it was best explained. I bet it would be an interesting endeavor,

and one that could prove to be very satisfying and fulfilling.

>

> I hope you will consider writing such a book. There are many here

who would be interested in buying one.

>

>

>

> ..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

> ¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

> ((¸¸.·´ ..·´ Mystic -:¦:-

> -:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: ( ) New to the Group

>

> Janelle,

>

> I think that people with HFA can learn to behave more

appropriately if they are taught how. The thing is, people do not

bother. They assume that a person with Apergers or HFA are either

not capable, or just give up on trying to teach them.

>

> Social skills are the most vital employment skill you can have. I

have three college degrees and cannot keep a job because I don't

understand what people are " getting at " when they speak. People

assume you know what they are saying when they use, improper

English, indirect commands, and body language. Many times non

aspies use it in a combination and expect us to decipher the code

and know what they mean, otherwise they say, we don't listen, are

insubordinate, just incapable of doing the job, or my

favorite, " You are just trying to be difficult " .

>

> I find that when people explain to me, some social rules,

customs, and how others think, it directly improves my ability to

communicate with others. Most people are very direct in their

communication. But many others are not. The best way to help people

with Aspies is to explain to them the social rules. Explain that

these social rules DO NOT make any sense, they are not logical, but

they need to memorize them and act accordingly so that they can keep

a job, have friends, and get along with others, they don't have to

agree with them or like them.

>

> I also think that, and pray to God that, someone would create a

book that explaines social rules to people with Aspies. Nobody

does. They just expect us to learn after we anger 100s of people in

our lives as we try to figure them out one by one making their

lives, and the lives of others they come in contact with more

unpleasant then need be.

>

> Aspies are like Shasta of the Wolves, we understand a different

set of social rules than human society.

>

>

> Take Care,

>

> Donovan J Arnold

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- My light bulbs are going off too! What an excellent analogy,

thanks for sharing it with us! Now if I can just recognize when the

tray is getting too full/ unbalanced!

Toni

In , " Mark son "

<thejacobsons@...> wrote:

>

> Thanx I found this articel really interesting in particular the

part about acting out when the tray is too full. It was like a

light bu;b going off in my head because lately my son has started to

act like a naughty toddler at certain times. And when I think back

to when this has happened it has always preceeded a meltdown later

in the day. Now instead of looking at this as a bad behaviour issue

I can see that it is an early warning sign that the tray is going to

topple if I don't intervene. Thank you so much. Clarity is a

beautiful thing.

> Cheers

> beck

> Re: ( ) New to the Group

>

>

> This article might help him to understand what your daughter

deals with on a

> daily basis:

> Pam

>

> BALANCING THE TRAY

> by Lenore Gerould (1996), Carbon-Lehigh Right to Education Task

Force,

> Schnecksville, PA. Distributed by Autism Services Center,

Huntington, WV by kind

> permission of the author.

> Those of us who have daily contact with children with autism

sometimes have

> trouble explaining to regular education teachers or

administrators the ‘hooks'

> of autism; especially the kinds of support they need. You're

always trying

> to explain the basics, ‘no, moving the pencil sharpener's

location in the

> classroom is not what upset him. You have to understand

that...'. Then I came up

> with this analogy. Perhaps it will help others to visualize the

support

> needed.

> Try to imagine the child balancing a large serving tray on one

upturned hand.

> Every distress for that child is like a liquid-filled glass you

are putting

> on this tray. The ‘distress glasses' are unique to each kid;

but generally

> include things like auditory or visual over-stimulation, social

interaction,

> 'surprises' or unexpected changes in the schedule, lack of

clear leadership,

> the number of people in the room; whatever is sensitive for

that child. (Don't

> forget the ability to read the body English and anxiety of the

adults around

> them!) The size and weight of the 'glass' for that child

varies; just like

> the 'distress glasses' vary for each kid. Some things are

merely shot glass

> size, while others can be a two liter jug. At some point the

tray is going to

> start to wobble - the liquid will start spilling out of the

glasses on the

> tray. The cues that this is happening will vary kid to kid:

just as the cause and

> size of a 'glass' varies kid to kid, but generally include

regressive

> behavior, avoidance or shutting down, giggling or minor acting

out to get

> attention.

> Hopefully, someone will help the kid rebalance the tray, or

remove some

> glasses. Perhaps taking a break, or allowing time to refocus or

process will

> work; again, techniques are unique to each kid. If there's no

intervention, the

> addition of one more glass will topple the tray to the floor.

The cause is not

> the most recent 'glass' you added, but the fact that the tray

was full or too

> heavy (the latter is why the child seems so unpredictable to

some people.)

> Our efforts should be that the kid learns to hold a bigger

tray, or to do

> minor correction of the tray's balance somewhat independently,

but they will

> always carry that wobbling tray. Ignoring cues can be

disastrous, from classroom

> disruptions to a major regression. When an autistic kids's tray

crashes to

> the floor, it is always a major event.That's why, if I hear my

son got highly

> upset over a moved pencil sharpener and acted out, I do not

want to hear that

> he has to learn to accept change. The sharpener is immaterial,

if I learn

> that day he'd dealt with a substitute teacher, a fire drill

just as Reading was

> starting, dead calculator batteries halfway through Math,

a 'crashed'

> computer in the middle of English, a late bus so that he missed

part of home room

> and some florescent lights in the class are half out - his tray

was already

> full.

> All of the distresses are unavoidable and he'd dealt with them

without a

> hitch; but each was another glass on this tray. Autistic kids

need someone

> around who is familiar with them; to sense how full the tray is

getting and read

> the cues, so there's intervention before that wobbling tray

topples to the

> floor. That is why the type of support for these kids is

critical, not just a

> 'hot body' nearby - but the 'right hot body' whom they can trust

will help

> balance and who knows the 'hooks'.

> For all of us, life is a balancing act, but for autistic kids

the glasses

> generally break when they hit the floor and it takes a whole lot

longer to clean

> up the mess and get a new tray.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Donovan,

I agree. I think a combination of Aspie and non-Aspie would be the best route

to take, if writing a book of this nature. The examples you gave were very

clear to me, how the misunderstandings can take place, but since I do not have

AS, I would not have thought them up on my own. I would need someone to point

out to me where the inconsistencies lie, in order to explain them. I am also

very new to this group, and to the AS community, so I have only recently been

enlightened as to the delicate balance between slang and metaphors and unspoken

social rules. Up until now I had thought most of my son's insistence on literal

phrases and his confusion over metaphors was caused by a combination of personal

quirk, stubbornness and a youthful inexperience with social communication. Now

that I realize the impact that AS has on his understanding of communication, and

his misunderstanding, I am becoming more aware of my own speech and how

frequently I use metaphors and slang, and

other potentially confusing methods of communicating.

I wouldn't mind helping you, should you decide to write a book for Aspies, but I

wouldn't be your best choice for a co-author. While I do have a degree in

Interpersonal Communication, and I am an amateur writer, I still lack the

experience with autism and AS that you would likely prefer and require. I might

prove useful in providing insight or explaining some social situation that has

left you confused, though.

There are so many people who belong to this board who have had experiences with

the sort of social misunderstandings that you describe. I'm sure that you could

post a question about it, and receive numerous examples that you could use in a

book. In addition, you might also be provided with explanations of how the

parents of an Aspie dealt with the misunderstandings, how they explained them to

someone with AS, or how the Aspie dealt with the situation. Or you can find out

from other Aspies how something was explained to them, and how they have come to

understand their original error. You might also find some social

misunderstandings that don't make sense to Aspies, and don't make sense to

non-Aspies as well. (Just because we've learned the accepted response or

behavior, doesn't mean we understand why it is required).

Let me know if you decide to go ahead with this idea, and if you need any

assistance, or if you just need someone to proof-read what you have written so

far. I would be glad to help you as much as I can. I honestly believe you have

a wonderful idea in this book, and could provide an incredible resource to other

Aspies, and to parents of Aspies. And I suspect that you would have a lot of

support and useful information from this board.

Mystic

P.S. One of the reasons you are running into trouble by providing unsolicited

facts and opinions in a work environment, is that you may be " showing up " your

co-workers. In other words, you may be proving that you know more about your

job or the subject at hand, or that you are more intelligent, than the other

people you work with. In the workforce, there is a lot of competition. For

jobs, for respect, for higher positions and higher salary. By showing up your

co-workers, you become a threat to their standing in their job, and perhaps to

their livelihood. It is also possible to have competition within a social

setting, where there is struggle to be appreciated within one's own circle of

friends, or you may be challenging someone who plays a leadership role in your

group. Another thing that may be happening is that it is not so much that you

offered facts and opinions, but that you offer them far too often, or offer far

too much information. It may be the *quantity*,

in this type of behavior, rather than the behavior itself, that is posing the

problem. With strangers, they may just be distrustful of another stranger, and

question your motives. (Perhaps you were approaching them to steal a purse, for

example).

Does that help?

...· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ Mystic -:¦:-

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

Re: ( ) New to the Group

Janelle,

I think that people with HFA can learn to behave more appropriately if they

are taught how. The thing is, people do not bother. They assume that a person

with Apergers or HFA are either not capable, or just give up on trying to

teach them.

Social skills are the most vital employment skill you can have. I have three

college degrees and cannot keep a job because I don't understand what people

are " getting at " when they speak. People assume you know what they are saying

when they use, improper English, indirect commands, and body language. Many

times non aspies use it in a combination and expect us to decipher the code

and know what they mean, otherwise they say, we don't listen, are

insubordinate, just incapable of doing the job, or my favorite, " You are just

trying to be difficult " .

I find that when people explain to me, some social rules, customs, and how

others think, it directly improves my ability to communicate with others. Most

people are very direct in their communication. But many others are not. The

best way to help people with Aspies is to explain to them the social rules.

Explain that these social rules DO NOT make any sense, they are not logical,

but they need to memorize them and act accordingly so that they can keep a

job, have friends, and get along with others, they don't have to agree with

them or like them.

I also think that, and pray to God that, someone would create a book that

explaines social rules to people with Aspies. Nobody does. They just expect us

to learn after we anger 100s of people in our lives as we try to figure them

out one by one making their lives, and the lives of others they come in

contact with more unpleasant then need be.

Aspies are like Shasta of the Wolves, we understand a different set of

social rules than human society.

Take Care,

Donovan J Arnold

[Guest guest]

Subject: Re: ( ) New to the Group

Donovan, that is a wonderful idea! A book that explains social rules to

Aspies.

*** It's already been done by Temple Grandin and Barron " The Unwritten

Rules of Social Relationships "

Roxanna

[Guest guest]

Welcome!!

Websites

www.danwebcast.com <http://www.danwebcast.com/>

www.generationrescue.com <http://www.generationrescue.com/>

www.enzymestuff.com <http://www.enzymestuff.com/>

Books:

Enzymes for Autism and Other Neurological Conditions, de Felice

Children With Starving Brains, Jacquelyn McCandless

The Natural Medicine Guide to Autism, Marohn

Many people here use Houston enzymes in lieu of or in conjunction with GFCF

diet for their children and see great gains. This is a good starting place.

New to the Group

Wow, I just joined and am instantly overwhelmed by the amount of

information. Let me give you a quick background on my child and go

from there.

My daughter is 7 years old. She is diagnosed with autism, a mild

form of dwarfism, has seizures (controlled with medication) and ADD

or ADHD. We have in the last year tried medications for attention

in the classroom. Some helped a little, some not at all and some

made things worse. My wife and I are now wondering why we even

started down this road.

She is having a horrible time for the last couple of months.

Behavior is out of control, attention poor, mood swings huge,

obsessive compulsive behaviors quite a bit.

I know this is briefe and does not address everything or much at

all, however I guess My wife and I are at our wits end right now and

would like to ask where do we start?

Who do we go to first, what do we try first, is there a good string

of emails that address this already that I should look at first.

Thank you for your help.