Re: Need help interpreting Speech Testing done by School

January 23, 2011

I don't know anything about those particular tests, except the Goldman Fristoe,

as my son just had that. The standard score for that is 100, just like a test

you'd take in school...and one standard deviation is 15%, which means that plus

15% and minus 15% would be within " normal " ranges (so, 85%-115%). The other

tests, it looks like they gave you the mean (average score), as well as the

standard deviations and usually within the plus one and minus one standard

deviation is considered " normal " ...so, when they say that the mean is 10 and the

standard deviation is 3, you can figure that to mean that anywhere from 7-13 is

within the " normal " range. Does that make sense? Is that the kind of information

that you are looking for?

Hope that helps!

-Brittany

>

> Hi all-

> We just went through the process of another IEP Meeting... it is hard to

believe that it has been a year since the first meeting!

>

> Our son is age 3 years, 10 months old. He has a diagnosis of Moderate to

Severe Apraxia, and Receptive/expressive language disorder. He attends a Pre K

that has a mix of kids with special needs and " typical kids " . Our Son receives 2

30 minute pullout ST sessions per week in this class.

>

> Prior to this meeting, the School conducted various forms of testing on my

Son. We had the results prior to the IEP Meeting... yet... there was no

explanation of what these results meant. We asked about this during the IEP

Meeting, and were told that these tests were done to see if our son still

qualifies.... I asked for copies of the test forms... and was told that they do

not do that. I looked up these tests on the net prior to the meeting.. and was

able to find several case studies of kids who had similar results. These kids

were considered to be in a VERY LOW DEVELOPMENTAL RANGE! I also could see that

the scores of this test are usually translated into percentiles.... which was

not done by the School... I feel they did not want me to know the percentiles...

because they knew I would refer to " The Matrix " to push for more pullout. No

matter how we pushed for more info, we were not given it.... SO-- we have

scores.... but we have no clue what the heck they mean-- other than what I was

able to find out on the Net!

>

> Can anyone give me insight re the following:

> 1. CELF-P2 test...

> Three receptive subtests of the CELF-P2 were administered to assess Tyler's

understanding of language... these subtests have a mean scaled standard score

of 10 and a standard deviation of 3.

> Tylers scores on each subtest as follows:

>

> 1. Sentence structure subtest 6

> 2. Concepts and following directions 4

> 3. Basic Concepts 7

>

> these scores yield a Receptive Language Index Standard score of 75.

>

> Three expressive language subtests of the CELF-P2 were administered to assess

Tyler's use of language. These subtests had a standard score of 10 and a

standard deviation of 3.

>

> Tylers scores are as follows:

> 1. word Structure 6

> 2. Expressive Vocabulary 1

> 3. Recalling sentences 4

>

> these scores yield an Expressive Language Index standard score of 63.

> When Sentence Structure, Word Structure and Expressive Vocabulary subtests are

combined, they yield a Core Language Score of 67.

>

> ***** when I looked for more info on the Net-- it seemed that the Core

Language Score of 67 is in the very low developmental range. Also, it seemed

that there were other parts of this test missing in the results given to me....

there was no info given to me about the Language structure and Language index

scores... (I was told that this was not done). These scores are useless to me

if I do not know what they mean.... All that we were told, over and over are

that these scores are " qualifying scores " .... YES-- I got that.... but why would

they not tell me what the darn numbers MEAN?

>

> NEXT TEST

> The Goldman Fristoe Test of Articulation-2 (GFTA-2)...

> Tyler received a standard score of 61

>

> NEXT TEST:

>

> The Battelle-- per the write up in the IEP, Tyler's teachers were interviewed

using the Battelle Developmental Inventory- 2nd Edition to report on Ty's self

help skills. He obtained a Developmental Quotient of 78. His Cognitive

Development Score was 70.

>

> I AM FAMILIAR WITH THIS TEST-- and I pointed out to them how Tyler's Cognitive

Score has decreased from a 77 to a 70 since the last Battelle, which was done 16

months ago. I also asked for a copy of the complete Battelle Scoring Sheet--

which includes Scaled Scores... and Standard Deviations. I was told that they do

not use this... and they do not have this to give me.

> GRRR-- without this info, I have no way of knowing where my son falls.... and

there is also no way to use the Matrix as a tool without this info!

>

> Any insight would be appreciated! We tried to get the pullout increased from

two to three 30 minute sessions per week... and were told no.... We are

considering Mediation to resolve this... especially since we were not provided

with info on " what the above results mean " .

>

> thanks for putting up with long note!

>

January 23, 2011

Basically a standard score of 100 is average for his age. The average can

range within 1 standard deviation (85-115). When a score falls below 2

standard deviations below 100 (70 or less) a child usually qualifies for

services in some capacity. It can also be translated to the 10 score where

normal is 8.5-11.5 and 2 standard deviations below 10 would be 7 or less.

I haven't personally given the Battelle test, but I am assuming language

elements are on the test. The jump from 2 year old language skills and 3

year old language skills is huge so if there are language elements on the

test that would be reflected in the decrease in cognitive skills. To get a

true idea of his cognitive ability you would need to have a nonverbal test

of cognitive skills.

If you want to fight for more time and you have the ability to get a private

evaluation - it may be worthwhile to have an independent evaluator recommend

more services. But you will probably have a fight on your hands either way.

Time limitations of staff usually prevent more service time. You may be

able to get them to agree to a monthly meeting with the therapist to show

you things to do at home.

Maybe some ideas at www.helpmychildtalk.com can be helpful too.

I wish you well,

Amy

Help My Child Talk <http://www.helpmychildtalk.com>

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 9:38 PM, <> wrote:

>

> Hi all-

> We just went through the process of another IEP Meeting... it is hard to

> believe that it has been a year since the first meeting!

>

> Our son is age 3 years, 10 months old. He has a diagnosis of Moderate to

> Severe Apraxia, and Receptive/expressive language disorder. He attends a Pre

> K that has a mix of kids with special needs and " typical kids " . Our Son

> receives 2 30 minute pullout ST sessions per week in this class.

>

> Prior to this meeting, the School conducted various forms of testing on my

> Son. We had the results prior to the IEP Meeting... yet... there was no

> explanation of what these results meant. We asked about this during the IEP

> Meeting, and were told that these tests were done to see if our son still

> qualifies.... I asked for copies of the test forms... and was told that they

> do not do that. I looked up these tests on the net prior to the meeting..

> and was able to find several case studies of kids who had similar results.

> These kids were considered to be in a VERY LOW DEVELOPMENTAL RANGE! I also

> could see that the scores of this test are usually translated into

> percentiles.... which was not done by the School... I feel they did not want

> me to know the percentiles... because they knew I would refer to " The

> Matrix " to push for more pullout. No matter how we pushed for more info, we

> were not given it.... SO-- we have scores.... but we have no clue what the

> heck they mean-- other than what I was able to find out on the Net!

>

> Can anyone give me insight re the following:

> 1. CELF-P2 test...

> Three receptive subtests of the CELF-P2 were administered to assess Tyler's

> understanding of language... these subtests have a mean scaled standard

> score of 10 and a standard deviation of 3.

> Tylers scores on each subtest as follows:

>

> 1. Sentence structure subtest 6

> 2. Concepts and following directions 4

> 3. Basic Concepts 7

>

> these scores yield a Receptive Language Index Standard score of 75.

>

> Three expressive language subtests of the CELF-P2 were administered to

> assess Tyler's use of language. These subtests had a standard score of 10

> and a standard deviation of 3.

>

> Tylers scores are as follows:

> 1. word Structure 6

> 2. Expressive Vocabulary 1

> 3. Recalling sentences 4

>

> these scores yield an Expressive Language Index standard score of 63.

> When Sentence Structure, Word Structure and Expressive Vocabulary subtests

> are combined, they yield a Core Language Score of 67.

>

> ***** when I looked for more info on the Net-- it seemed that the Core

> Language Score of 67 is in the very low developmental range. Also, it seemed

> that there were other parts of this test missing in the results given to

> me.... there was no info given to me about the Language structure and

> Language index scores... (I was told that this was not done). These scores

> are useless to me if I do not know what they mean.... All that we were told,

> over and over are that these scores are " qualifying scores " .... YES-- I got

> that.... but why would they not tell me what the darn numbers MEAN?

>

> NEXT TEST

> The Goldman Fristoe Test of Articulation-2 (GFTA-2)...

> Tyler received a standard score of 61

>

> NEXT TEST:

>

> The Battelle-- per the write up in the IEP, Tyler's teachers were

> interviewed using the Battelle Developmental Inventory- 2nd Edition to

> report on Ty's self help skills. He obtained a Developmental Quotient of 78.

> His Cognitive Development Score was 70.

>

> I AM FAMILIAR WITH THIS TEST-- and I pointed out to them how Tyler's

> Cognitive Score has decreased from a 77 to a 70 since the last Battelle,

> which was done 16 months ago. I also asked for a copy of the complete

> Battelle Scoring Sheet-- which includes Scaled Scores... and Standard

> Deviations. I was told that they do not use this... and they do not have

> this to give me.

> GRRR-- without this info, I have no way of knowing where my son falls....

> and there is also no way to use the Matrix as a tool without this info!

>

> Any insight would be appreciated! We tried to get the pullout increased

> from two to three 30 minute sessions per week... and were told no.... We are

> considering Mediation to resolve this... especially since we were not

> provided with info on " what the above results mean " .

>

> thanks for putting up with long note!

>

January 23, 2011

LOL, didn't see the standard deviation of 3 for the subtests. So that would

work out to an average range of 7-13 with less than 4 being a qualifying

score.

Amy

Help My Child Talk <http://www.helpmychildtalk.com>

On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Amy <aeimmie@...> wrote:

> Basically a standard score of 100 is average for his age. The average can

> range within 1 standard deviation (85-115). When a score falls below 2

> standard deviations below 100 (70 or less) a child usually qualifies for

> services in some capacity. It can also be translated to the 10 score where

> normal is 8.5-11.5 and 2 standard deviations below 10 would be 7 or less.

>

> I haven't personally given the Battelle test, but I am assuming language

> elements are on the test. The jump from 2 year old language skills and 3

> year old language skills is huge so if there are language elements on the

> test that would be reflected in the decrease in cognitive skills. To get a

> true idea of his cognitive ability you would need to have a nonverbal test

> of cognitive skills.

>

> If you want to fight for more time and you have the ability to get a

> private evaluation - it may be worthwhile to have an independent evaluator

> recommend more services. But you will probably have a fight on your hands

> either way. Time limitations of staff usually prevent more service time.

> You may be able to get them to agree to a monthly meeting with the

> therapist to show you things to do at home.

>

> Maybe some ideas at www.helpmychildtalk.com can be helpful too.

>

> I wish you well,

>

> Amy

> Help My Child Talk <http://www.helpmychildtalk.com>

>

> On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 9:38 PM, <> wrote:

>

>>

>> Hi all-

>> We just went through the process of another IEP Meeting... it is hard to

>> believe that it has been a year since the first meeting!

>>

>> Our son is age 3 years, 10 months old. He has a diagnosis of Moderate to

>> Severe Apraxia, and Receptive/expressive language disorder. He attends a Pre

>> K that has a mix of kids with special needs and " typical kids " . Our Son

>> receives 2 30 minute pullout ST sessions per week in this class.

>>

>> Prior to this meeting, the School conducted various forms of testing on my

>> Son. We had the results prior to the IEP Meeting... yet... there was no

>> explanation of what these results meant. We asked about this during the IEP

>> Meeting, and were told that these tests were done to see if our son still

>> qualifies.... I asked for copies of the test forms... and was told that they

>> do not do that. I looked up these tests on the net prior to the meeting..

>> and was able to find several case studies of kids who had similar results.

>> These kids were considered to be in a VERY LOW DEVELOPMENTAL RANGE! I also

>> could see that the scores of this test are usually translated into

>> percentiles.... which was not done by the School... I feel they did not want

>> me to know the percentiles... because they knew I would refer to " The

>> Matrix " to push for more pullout. No matter how we pushed for more info, we

>> were not given it.... SO-- we have scores.... but we have no clue what the

>> heck they mean-- other than what I was able to find out on the Net!

>>

>> Can anyone give me insight re the following:

>> 1. CELF-P2 test...

>> Three receptive subtests of the CELF-P2 were administered to assess

>> Tyler's understanding of language... these subtests have a mean scaled

>> standard score of 10 and a standard deviation of 3.

>> Tylers scores on each subtest as follows:

>>

>> 1. Sentence structure subtest 6

>> 2. Concepts and following directions 4

>> 3. Basic Concepts 7

>>

>> these scores yield a Receptive Language Index Standard score of 75.

>>

>> Three expressive language subtests of the CELF-P2 were administered to

>> assess Tyler's use of language. These subtests had a standard score of 10

>> and a standard deviation of 3.

>>

>> Tylers scores are as follows:

>> 1. word Structure 6

>> 2. Expressive Vocabulary 1

>> 3. Recalling sentences 4

>>

>> these scores yield an Expressive Language Index standard score of 63.

>> When Sentence Structure, Word Structure and Expressive Vocabulary subtests

>> are combined, they yield a Core Language Score of 67.

>>

>> ***** when I looked for more info on the Net-- it seemed that the Core

>> Language Score of 67 is in the very low developmental range. Also, it seemed

>> that there were other parts of this test missing in the results given to

>> me.... there was no info given to me about the Language structure and

>> Language index scores... (I was told that this was not done). These scores

>> are useless to me if I do not know what they mean.... All that we were told,

>> over and over are that these scores are " qualifying scores " .... YES-- I got

>> that.... but why would they not tell me what the darn numbers MEAN?

>>

>> NEXT TEST

>> The Goldman Fristoe Test of Articulation-2 (GFTA-2)...

>> Tyler received a standard score of 61

>>

>> NEXT TEST:

>>

>> The Battelle-- per the write up in the IEP, Tyler's teachers were

>> interviewed using the Battelle Developmental Inventory- 2nd Edition to

>> report on Ty's self help skills. He obtained a Developmental Quotient of 78.

>> His Cognitive Development Score was 70.

>>

>> I AM FAMILIAR WITH THIS TEST-- and I pointed out to them how Tyler's

>> Cognitive Score has decreased from a 77 to a 70 since the last Battelle,

>> which was done 16 months ago. I also asked for a copy of the complete

>> Battelle Scoring Sheet-- which includes Scaled Scores... and Standard

>> Deviations. I was told that they do not use this... and they do not have

>> this to give me.

>> GRRR-- without this info, I have no way of knowing where my son falls....

>> and there is also no way to use the Matrix as a tool without this info!

>>

>> Any insight would be appreciated! We tried to get the pullout increased

>> from two to three 30 minute sessions per week... and were told no.... We are

>> considering Mediation to resolve this... especially since we were not

>> provided with info on " what the above results mean " .

>>

>> thanks for putting up with long note!

>>

>

January 23, 2011

Hi Brit-

Thanks for responding.... Yes-- that sort of helps.... I just wish that they

would have given me the detailed summary that I requested.... Jeez.... you gave

me more info than they were willing to!

What is the purpose of conducting a test if the parents are not permitted to

know detailed results? I feel so shocked by this...... I have always been very

good at giving them copies of each and every test or eval that we have done on

our own for our Son.....

Sometimes, I have to go through great trouble to even get copies of these

reports from the private facilities..... You may know the drill.... you request

a copy during the appointment.... you are told it will be sent to you.... weeks

go by and you never get it..... you call the office and get the run around....

you then have to return to the office to sign a " Release of info form " (even

though you already did this prior to the appointment where you made the request

for a copy of info).... You then wait a few more weeks..... make a few more

calls.... and finally get what you asked for!

Re the IEP- this is only the second time we have gone through the process....

and I am learning! There is so much discussion at the beginning..... and I

tried to move it along... so that we would not run out of time when it came to

the NOREP part... (where frequency of services is discussed). The ST sort of

dodged our questioning about the tests..... and then she had to leave the

Meeting. By the time we got to the last part of the IEP, she was gone-- so we

were not able to press for more info about these tests... The people who

remained present at the Meeting all told us that they had no idea what the

results meant. In the future, I will not let this happen again!

[ ] Re: Need help interpreting Speech Testing done by

School