Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 : > What I have discovered is that some nutrients are easy to get and > others more difficult (like calcium and Zinc). : calcium is easy if you use skim milk and no- or low-fat yogurt in your diet. Also I start almost every day with 3/4 cup of Total cereal, which has 100% of daily requirements, including calcium and zinc. Not only is this a healthy way to start the day, it's the easiest of breakfasts to prepare!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 The nutrition in Total is added after the fact though, isn't it? Doesn't that put it in the same category as a supplement pill? I think many on this list are trying to get these nutrients from " natural " sources, rather than from fortified cereals/orange juice/etc.. http://www.totalcereal.com/NI/ni_05_12.asp " Folic acid is found in fruits, vegetables, whole grain products, dietary supplements and fortified cereals like Total, which provides 100% of a day's supply of folic acid. " ----- Original Message ----- From: " T. Francesca Skelton " <fskelton@...> < > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:53 AM Subject: [ ] Re: calcium and zinc > : > > What I have discovered is that some nutrients are easy to get and > > others more difficult (like calcium and Zinc). > > : calcium is easy if you use skim milk and no- or low-fat yogurt in > your diet. > > Also I start almost every day with 3/4 cup of Total cereal, which has 100% > of daily requirements, including calcium and zinc. Not only is this a > healthy way to start the day, it's the easiest of breakfasts to prepare!! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 Short of eating oysters regularly, zinc is hard to get through diet alone. The other nutrients I do get through fruits, veggies and dairy products. Not sure why you mention folic acid, which BTW us cronies all probably get plenty of. > The nutrition in Total is added after the fact though, isn't it? Doesn't > that put it in the same category as a supplement pill? > I think many on this list are trying to get these nutrients from " natural " > sources, rather than from fortified cereals/orange juice/etc.. > http://www.totalcereal.com/NI/ni_05_12.asp > > " Folic acid is found in fruits, vegetables, whole grain products, dietary > supplements and fortified cereals like Total, which provides 100% of a day's > supply of folic acid. " > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: " T. Francesca Skelton " <fskelton@e...> > < @y...> > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:53 AM > Subject: [ ] Re: calcium and zinc > > > > : > > > What I have discovered is that some nutrients are easy to get and > > > others more difficult (like calcium and Zinc). > > > > : calcium is easy if you use skim milk and no- or low-fat yogurt in > > your diet. > > > > Also I start almost every day with 3/4 cup of Total cereal, which has 100% > > of daily requirements, including calcium and zinc. Not only is this a > > healthy way to start the day, it's the easiest of breakfasts to prepare!! > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 > Short of eating oysters regularly, zinc is hard to get through diet > alone. The other nutrients I do get through fruits, veggies and dairy > products. Not sure why you mention folic acid, which BTW us cronies > all probably get plenty of. > > I was just quoting the section of the Total website where they refer to themselves as a " Fortified cereal. " I'm sure you do get all of those things from natural sources. I was pointing out to the recipient of your advice that perhaps Total wasn't the optimal place to get those nutrients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 I look upon it as my insurance policy. Many cronies do take supplements and/or a multivitamin. If you have another good (natural) source for zinc, let us know. > > > > Short of eating oysters regularly, zinc is hard to get through diet > > alone. The other nutrients I do get through fruits, veggies and dairy > > products. Not sure why you mention folic acid, which BTW us cronies > > all probably get plenty of. > > > > > I was just quoting the section of the Total website where they refer to > themselves as a " Fortified cereal. " > I'm sure you do get all of those things from natural sources. I was pointing > out to the recipient of your advice that perhaps Total wasn't the optimal > place to get those nutrients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 I agree. I'd rather get my nutrients though natural sources (non- fortified). If I am going to subscribe to the " insurance policy " theory I'd rather take supplements rather than fortified foods that have calories associated with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2002 Report Share Posted February 28, 2002 : you misunderstand. No extra calories. Total is my breakfast of choice because of: 1)low cal 2)fast and easy and 3)healthy and supplies my insurance of (possibly missing) nutrients (such as zinc). It is not eaten as anything " extra " ; it is breakfast. But to each his own and we must all make our own decisions. I have never subscribed to the obsessiveness of some of the (mostly main list) members. So for me it's ideal and a great food! If this tip helps someone else from eating some sugary breakfast cereal, a MacMuffin, or pop tarts for breakfast, they'll be way ahead; and the beauty of this list is to take what you can use and don't take what you can't. > I agree. I'd rather get my nutrients though natural sources (non- > fortified). If I am going to subscribe to the " insurance policy " > theory I'd rather take supplements rather than fortified foods that > have calories associated with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 I think it is perfectly fine to eat a fortified cereal as breakfast if you choose to - provided you are not under the impression that eating a fortified cereal is better than eating a non-fortified cereal with a multivitamin. Most people on this list seem to be fully aware of what you're doing, diet-wise anyway. I've talked to other people, however, who do seem to think that getting their vitamins mixed in a cereal is an improvement over eating a multivitamin. As was said, if you're eating a fortified cereal instead of a pop-tart or Egg McMuffin, you're definitely way ahead. If you're eating a fortified cereal because otherwise you would never remember to take a multivitamin, you're ahead. If you're eating a fortified cereal in place of a multivitamin, you're just adding calories to your vitamin. >From: " fskelton " <fskelton@...> >Reply- > >Subject: [ ] Re: calcium and zinc >Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:26:25 -0000 > >: you misunderstand. No extra calories. Total is my breakfast >of choice because of: 1)low cal 2)fast and easy and 3)healthy and >supplies my insurance of (possibly missing) nutrients (such as zinc). >It is not eaten as anything " extra " ; it is breakfast. But to each his >own and we must all make our own decisions. I have never subscribed to >the obsessiveness of some of the (mostly main list) members. So for me >it's ideal and a great food! If this tip helps someone else from >eating some sugary breakfast cereal, a MacMuffin, or pop tarts for >breakfast, they'll be way ahead; and the beauty of this list is to take >what you can use and don't take what you can't. > > > > > I agree. I'd rather get my nutrients though natural sources (non- > > fortified). If I am going to subscribe to the " insurance policy " > > theory I'd rather take supplements rather than fortified foods that > > have calories associated with them. > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 I eliminated cereals from my diet once I began to scrutinize the labels. Most - even the " healthy " ones - are very high in calories. And most of the calories should be listed in the " empty carbohydrates " category. The vitamin/mineral additives end up as essentially the only redeeming quality. The good stuff that was once in the grains from whence they were fabricated has been mostly lost. ----- Original Message ----- From: " Robin M " <r061n@...> < > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: calcium and zinc > I think it is perfectly fine to eat a fortified cereal as breakfast if you > choose to - provided you are not under the impression that eating a > fortified cereal is better than eating a non-fortified cereal with a > multivitamin. Most people on this list seem to be fully aware of what > you're doing, diet-wise anyway. I've talked to other people, however, who > do seem to think that getting their vitamins mixed in a cereal is an > improvement over eating a multivitamin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 Reading these posts on fortification reminds me that I've heard something to the effect that the nutrients of fortification are sometimes very poorly absorbed. If this is true, then eating certain fortified foods might be like taking a really cheap supplement pill or at least giving up the quality control process involved with choosing supplements, meager as it may be. Does anybody know any facts on this point? I think the only voluntarily fortified food I eat is the occasional soymilk for a quick meal on the go (disadvantages: added sugar, cost), but this would be a issue of general interest I'm sure. Mike > I think it is perfectly fine to eat a fortified cereal as breakfast if you > choose to - provided you are not under the impression that eating a > fortified cereal is better than eating a non-fortified cereal with a > multivitamin. Most people on this list seem to be fully aware of what > you're doing, diet-wise anyway. I've talked to other people, however, who > do seem to think that getting their vitamins mixed in a cereal is an > improvement over eating a multivitamin. > > As was said, if you're eating a fortified cereal instead of a pop- tart or > Egg McMuffin, you're definitely way ahead. If you're eating a fortified > cereal because otherwise you would never remember to take a multivitamin, > you're ahead. If you're eating a fortified cereal in place of a > multivitamin, you're just adding calories to your vitamin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2002 Report Share Posted March 2, 2002 OK. I would be happy to change my regimen if I got some other ideas from the group on easy, quick, and healthy breakfasts. I suppose I could eat salad and protein (like I do for lunch) but that gets kind of boring. Even if the supplements in fortified cereals are poorly absorbed (which we don't know for sure), what about another source for zinc? Zinc is rarely found in foods (BTW whole grains, which Total contains, and wheat germ are one source). I do eat some Brewer's Yeast which is another source, but probably not enough (Brewer's Yeast tastes yucky). > Reading these posts on fortification reminds me that I've heard > something to the effect that the nutrients of fortification are > sometimes very poorly absorbed. If this is true, then eating certain > fortified foods might be like taking a really cheap supplement pill > or at least giving up the quality control process involved with > choosing supplements, meager as it may be. Does anybody know any > facts on this point? I think the only voluntarily fortified food I > eat is the occasional soymilk for a quick meal on the go > (disadvantages: added sugar, cost), but this would be a issue of > general interest I'm sure. > > Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2002 Report Share Posted March 6, 2002 As a chemist in a former life (nothing transcendental here, just a career change) I was amused to learn that breakfast cereals which claim to be fortified with iron often use iron filings as the iron source. (Yes, I still sometimes eat them.) To see this for yourself, choose a fortified cereal, put milk over it, eat the cereal, and then see if there is a dark residue in the bottom of the bowl. If there is, hold a magnet against the underside of the bowl, and see if you can drag the residue around with it. Or you could hold a piece of paper over the magnet (notebook paper works OK for this - not paper napkin, tissue or paper towel) and dunk it into the dregs in the bowl. The paper then has the filings on it. I think I last demonstrated this at my sister-in-law's with Golden Crip or something similar. I can't recall how this is listed in the ingredient list. As for availability - the iron filings will dissolve in acid solution, which is just what your stomach is, but I don't know how much of it is actually made available. Iris > OK. I would be happy to change my regimen if I got some other ideas from > the group on easy, quick, and healthy breakfasts. I suppose I could eat > salad and protein (like I do for lunch) but that gets kind of boring. Even > if the supplements in fortified cereals are poorly absorbed (which we don't > know for sure), what about another source for zinc? Zinc is rarely found in > foods (BTW whole grains, which Total contains, and wheat germ are one > source). I do eat some Brewer's Yeast which is another source, but probably > not enough (Brewer's Yeast tastes yucky). > > > > Reading these posts on fortification reminds me that I've heard > > something to the effect that the nutrients of fortification are > > sometimes very poorly absorbed. If this is true, then eating certain > > fortified foods might be like taking a really cheap supplement pill > > or at least giving up the quality control process involved with > > choosing supplements, meager as it may be. Does anybody know any > > facts on this point? I think the only voluntarily fortified food I > > eat is the occasional soymilk for a quick meal on the go > > (disadvantages: added sugar, cost), but this would be a issue of > > general interest I'm sure. > > > > Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2002 Report Share Posted March 6, 2002 Iris, As a chemist in a current life I found your experiment very entertaining. I will try it out next family breakfast with the wife and kids. JOe At 04:34 PM 3/6/02 +0000, you wrote: >As a chemist in a former life (nothing transcendental here, just a >career change) I was amused to learn that breakfast cereals which >claim to be fortified with iron often use iron filings as the iron >source. (Yes, I still sometimes eat them.) > >To see this for yourself, choose a fortified cereal, put milk over >it, eat the cereal, and then see if there is a dark residue in the >bottom of the bowl. If there is, hold a magnet against the underside >of the bowl, and see if you can drag the residue around with it. Or >you could hold a piece of paper over the magnet (notebook paper works >OK for this - not paper napkin, tissue or paper towel) and dunk it >into the dregs in the bowl. The paper then has the filings on it. I >think I last demonstrated this at my sister-in-law's with Golden Crip >or something similar. I can't recall how this is listed in the >ingredient list. > >As for availability - the iron filings will dissolve in acid >solution, which is just what your stomach is, but I don't know how >much of it is actually made available. > >Iris > > > > OK. I would be happy to change my regimen if I got some other >ideas from > > the group on easy, quick, and healthy breakfasts. I suppose I >could eat > > salad and protein (like I do for lunch) but that gets kind of >boring. Even > > if the supplements in fortified cereals are poorly absorbed (which >we don't > > know for sure), what about another source for zinc? Zinc is rarely >found in > > foods (BTW whole grains, which Total contains, and wheat germ are >one > > source). I do eat some Brewer's Yeast which is another source, but >probably > > not enough (Brewer's Yeast tastes yucky). > > > > > > > Reading these posts on fortification reminds me that I've heard > > > something to the effect that the nutrients of fortification are > > > sometimes very poorly absorbed. If this is true, then eating >certain > > > fortified foods might be like taking a really cheap supplement >pill > > > or at least giving up the quality control process involved with > > > choosing supplements, meager as it may be. Does anybody know any > > > facts on this point? I think the only voluntarily fortified food >I > > > eat is the occasional soymilk for a quick meal on the go > > > (disadvantages: added sugar, cost), but this would be a issue of > > > general interest I'm sure. > > > > > > Mike > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 > OK. I would be happy to change my regimen if I got some other ideas from > the group on easy, quick, and healthy breakfasts. I suppose I could eat > salad and protein (like I do for lunch) but that gets kind of boring. Even > if the supplements in fortified cereals are poorly absorbed (which we don't > know for sure), what about another source for zinc? Zinc is rarely found in > foods (BTW whole grains, which Total contains, and wheat germ are one > source). I do eat some Brewer's Yeast which is another source, but probably > not enough (Brewer's Yeast tastes yucky). > > > > Reading these posts on fortification reminds me that I've heard > > something to the effect that the nutrients of fortification are > > sometimes very poorly absorbed. If this is true, then eating certain > > fortified foods might be like taking a really cheap supplement pill > > or at least giving up the quality control process involved with > > choosing supplements, meager as it may be. Does anybody know any > > facts on this point? I think the only voluntarily fortified food I > > eat is the occasional soymilk for a quick meal on the go > > (disadvantages: added sugar, cost), but this would be a issue of > > general interest I'm sure. > > > > Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 Disregard the previous content-less post--It was a touchpad accident; I'm still trying to get my UNIX hands used to these clunky PCs. I noticed that in the below post T. Francesa Skelton positions zinc as a problem nutrient, but then parenthetically provides some easy solutions. I looked in the chart in (Walford 2001) and learned that a mere tablespoon of wheat germ essentially nails down the zinc RDA! Talk about an easy solution! In fact, perhaps I should cut down a bit on the wheat germ to avoid a zinc excess, as it seems all too easy to add a tablespoon or two to just about anything, just as Walford suggests. That being said, however, I want to make a serious inquiry of others on the list regarding the consumption of wheat germ, as I distinctly recall reading somewhere that it is antinutrient-dense. Does anybody have more details on this? Is roasting a solution? What about wheat bran? In any case, looking through other entries for zinc, it appears to be pretty easy to get the RDA from ordinary food. An average day's worth of garlic seems to go at least 1/3 of the way there, and those, like myself, who get the bulk of their EAAs from legumes and whole grains, are another 1/3 or so of the way there. (Meat-eating days don't seem to introduce much variation in zinc levels.) Toss in 50 calories or so of almonds somewhere, and we're over the RDA with room to spare. Of course, this would be without any wheat germ, wheat bran, or yeast, all of which appear to be zinc powerhouses. While the RDA doesn't appear to pose much of a challenge, does anybody know of any reason for consuming zinc in excess of the RDA, and if so, then how much? On the topic of T. Francesca Skelton's invitation for breakfast suggestions, Greg 's breakfast smoothie recipe (pasted below) seems to fit the bill, and so I should take this opportunity to pose a question I've meaning to ask ever since reading this mouth-watering recipe: What are the tradeoffs between fruit smoothies and fruit salads with the same ingredients? Is there a loss of fiber or vitamins in the smoothie? I've been going back and forth on the matter in my own practice, sometimes thinking that smoothies are easier to make and consume, and potentially taste better, but also thinking that fruit flavors are individuated to a pleasing effect in juxtaposition rather than blending, and that the mouth labor is a tiny fraction of vegetable salads in any case. The compatibility with soy protein powder certainly seems to be a plus for smoothies, and I find its ordinarily uninspiring flavor and texture to be somehow quite appealing in this context. If ease of preparation is an issue for morning meals, then besides the fruit smoothie idea, I can offer my own evolving habit of microwaving a portion of my Indian style lentil dishes (with hulled barley, carrot, spinach, and eggplant) and eating a modest quantity of fruit. It doesn't get much easier. Mike > OK. I would be happy to change my regimen if I got some other ideas from > the group on easy, quick, and healthy breakfasts. I suppose I could eat > salad and protein (like I do for lunch) but that gets kind of boring. Even > if the supplements in fortified cereals are poorly absorbed (which we don't > know for sure), what about another source for zinc? Zinc is rarely found in > foods (BTW whole grains, which Total contains, and wheat germ are one > source). I do eat some Brewer's Yeast which is another source, but probably > not enough (Brewer's Yeast tastes yucky). -------------------------------- 1/2 cup blueberries (75 g & 1,800 Orac units) 1/2 cup strawberries (72 g & 1,108 Orac units) 5 prunes (42 g & 2,423 Orac units) 1/2 banana (59 g & 124 ORAC units) 1 kiwi fruit (100 g & 604 Orac units) 10 g wolfberries (10 g & 2,530 Orac units) 1 tablespoon ground flax (Omega 3 LNA & fiber) 1 tablespoons soy protein powder 1/2 cup coconut milk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 I too have fixed my Zinc woes with some wheat germ in my morning smoothie. I so sure that 1 TBLSP will do it though. I add a 1/4 cup to my smoothie and that only get's to about 45% RDA. Anyway, what I like about the smoothie is that you can buy fruit in bulk (like at produce junction) and then precut them and freeze them. The fruit will keep an extremely long time and make the smoothie a lot thicker to. As for the protein in the smoothie I am still expirementing with tofu and protein powder (soy or whey). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2002 Report Share Posted March 7, 2002 Smoothies make it easier to bury and consume things like flaxseed and protein powder, although you can hide them in tomato juice just about as well. I like wheat germ well enough to eat it by itself, but I'll throw that in a smoothie too. As long as you're not throwing away part of the fruit you would otherwise eat, you're not affecting the quantity of fiber. Iris > recipe: What are the tradeoffs between fruit smoothies and fruit > salads with the same ingredients? Is there a loss of fiber or > vitamins in the smoothie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2002 Report Share Posted March 8, 2002 > I too have fixed my Zinc woes with some wheat germ in my morning > smoothie. I so sure that 1 TBLSP will do it though. I add a 1/4 cup > to my smoothie and that only get's to about 45% RDA. Oops. I was misreading Walford's chart, so indeed it does take a good bit more wheat germ (or wheat bran or yeast) to get a significant zinc contribution! I've been using the USDA website for most of my nutrient calculations, so I wasn't accustomed to the format in (Walford 2001)... I checked on the other foods too, and my misreading also vitiates the bit about almonds and garlic making big contributions, but a day's worth of legumes and grains could easily give 5mg or more, so at least one part was right! so I guess I'll keep up with the liberal doses of wheat germ (barring any contraindicative information about antinutrient effects.) > > Anyway, what I like about the smoothie is that you can buy fruit in > bulk (like at produce junction) and then precut them and freeze > them. The fruit will keep an extremely long time and make the > smoothie a lot thicker to. > > As for the protein in the smoothie I am still expirementing with tofu > and protein powder (soy or whey). I haven't had much luck making tasty things involving tofu and my blender, although I love plain tofu and often add it to salads, so the protein powder definitely seems to be the way to go for smoothies. The powder also has less fat, which is certainly an advantage, and apparently less isoflavones, which may be an advantage for males like myself whose pattern hair loss is exacerbated by frequent worrying about the Hawaii study... I'm grateful for the thoughts about frozen fruit from Bob and Iris, as that didn't occur to me, and certainly weighs in quite heavily in favor of smoothies. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2002 Report Share Posted March 8, 2002 ----- Original Message ----- From: " Anton " <michaelantonparker@...> < > Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: calcium and zinc > I'm grateful for the thoughts about frozen fruit from Bob and Iris, as > that didn't occur to me, and certainly weighs in quite heavily in favor of > smoothies. OK, then. Who has a good smoothie recipe involving frozen fruit? I usually just toss 1% yogurt, orange juice, blueberries, raspberries, and unflavored protein powder in the blender. I'm interested to taking my smoothies to vertiginous new heights of flavor and nutrition. I suppose once I find a hookup for some wolfberries, I can add those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2002 Report Share Posted March 8, 2002 Just buy mixed frozen fruit (usually melons and strawberries) and toss them into the blender. My husband and I eat LOTS of blueberries, so we buy them while they're seasonally cheap, then slip the containers into plastic bags and put them in the (chest) freezer. We transfer them a container at a time to the fridge freezer, then we take out just what we want for a given use. Rnse them in a colander before using them. For smoothies rinse in cold water and put in the blender. To toss them into a salad or onto cereal, rinse with warm water so they defrost a bit. They'll freeze back together if you let them sit too long at that point, though. And they may be kind of mushy if you totally defrost them, so I wouldn't add them to fruit salad if it was going to stand for a while. Iris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: " Anton " <michaelantonparker@y...> > < @y...> > Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:53 AM > Subject: Re: [ ] Re: calcium and zinc > > > > I'm grateful for the thoughts about frozen fruit from Bob and Iris, as > > that didn't occur to me, and certainly weighs in quite heavily in favor of > > smoothies. > > OK, then. Who has a good smoothie recipe involving frozen fruit? > I usually just toss 1% yogurt, orange juice, blueberries, raspberries, and > unflavored protein powder in the blender. > I'm interested to taking my smoothies to vertiginous new heights of flavor > and nutrition. > I suppose once I find a hookup for some wolfberries, I can add those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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