Re: Saunas and possible misinformation

[Guest guest]

,

I believe lipoic acid is the same as alpha lipoic acid (ALA). If

this is incorrect, I would like very much to see some documentation

as to the difference.

--

[Guest guest]

No, Lipoic acid is not the same as alpha lipoic acid.

Lipoic acid is referenced and recommended in andy cutler's amalgam

book as well as Dr. sherry books.

ALA is not mentioned in Dr. book, not the one I have, anyway.

To discredit Dr. Sherry on the basis of recommending ALA is

misinformation and false as far as I can see. I just skimmed her

entire book tonite. She only mentions lipoic acid LA, just like Andy

Cutler.

We went ahead and bought the heavenly heat sauna because of it's

reputation, but it was actually the hightechhealth brochure and

references that made me buy the sauna. How discouraging about FIR

because we put three FIR in our sauna and one regular heater. We can

turn the FIR all the way off and just use the regular sauna.

>

> ,

>

> I believe lipoic acid is the same as alpha lipoic acid (ALA). If

> this is incorrect, I would like very much to see some documentation

> as to the difference.

>

> --

>

[Guest guest]

http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/alp_0159.shtml

" Alpha-lipoic acid has a variety of names. In addition to being known

as alpha-lipoic acid and thioctic acid, it is also known as lipoic

acid, 1,2-dithiolane-3-pentanoic acid; 1,2-ditholane-3-valeric acid;

6,8-thiotic acid; 5-[3-C1,2-dithiolanyl)]-pentanoic acid;

delta-[3-(1,2-dithiacyclopentyl)] pentanoic acid; acetate replacing

factor and pyruvate oxidation factor. Alpha-lipoic acid is

water-insoluble. "

[Guest guest]

,

Not a sauna expert by any means, but the Heavenly Heat saunas are well-

regarded. Bob from Heavenly Heat sometimes posts on this list

with good information, and I have also read at least one post by Andy

Cutler that seems to favour the Heavenly Heat saunas, even though he

doesn't generally seem to be a fan of FIR's. So maybe you could do a

little more searching on Onibasu and come up with some very useful

information on this. Might make you feel better too :-).

René

>> We went ahead and bought the heavenly heat sauna because of it's

> reputation, but it was actually the hightechhealth brochure and

> references that made me buy the sauna. How discouraging about FIR

> because we put three FIR in our sauna and one regular heater. We can

> turn the FIR all the way off and just use the regular sauna.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow- if ALA is the same as Lipoic Acid...that explains a lot.

It would explain why my husband got sick from a lot of the supplements

that Dr. said to take. She says to take 600mg of LA at a time.

No wonder the folks with MCS stay sick and aren't getting well as

quickly as the autistic children who use Andy's protocol.

Has anyone attempted to inform Dr. 's of the dangers of high

doses of lipoic acid?

It makes me mad that there was a bunch of hype about FIR and we bought

three. I think each one was $250-300 dollars. Maybe I could sell em

on ebay. So, there is no use for them, and they are dangerous? If

this is so then why is Heavenly Heat Saunas selling them? Why is Bob

on this list, knowing they are dangerous, and selling them to

sick people and sick children?

> >> We went ahead and bought the heavenly heat sauna because of it's

> > reputation, but it was actually the hightechhealth brochure and

> > references that made me buy the sauna. How discouraging about FIR

> > because we put three FIR in our sauna and one regular heater. We can

> > turn the FIR all the way off and just use the regular sauna.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

please do some reading on Onibasu about this. I'm not *exactly* sure

(haven't been in the market for a sauna so didn't really pay

attention) but my sense is that the Heavenly Heat FIR is different in

some important ways from most of the FIR saunas being marketed.

There are some very good posts about this, and as I said before, my

sense is that Andy, as well as some who have bought Heavenly Heat

saunas, do think they are better/safer than other FIR saunas. I'm

not a longtimer here, but to my knowledge Bob only ever posts

when someone has a relevant comment/question, and has been careful

not to take advantage of this list.

René

> > >> We went ahead and bought the heavenly heat sauna because of

it's

> > > reputation, but it was actually the hightechhealth brochure and

> > > references that made me buy the sauna. How discouraging about

FIR

> > > because we put three FIR in our sauna and one regular heater.

We can

> > > turn the FIR all the way off and just use the regular sauna.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> > > >> We went ahead and bought the heavenly heat sauna because of

> it's

> > > > reputation, but it was actually the hightechhealth brochure and

> > > > references that made me buy the sauna. How discouraging about

> FIR

> > > > because we put three FIR in our sauna and one regular heater.

> We can

> > > > turn the FIR all the way off and just use the regular sauna.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I haven't been on this list long but have found you all very

helpful. I am very interested in this as I purchased a HH M1 combo

unit (heat/FIR/NIR). I believe that pesticides/chemicals are part

of the problem with my children. I use it with my children 4-5

times a week - it is heating up now. Can someone clarify why FIR is

dangerous?

Thanks for all the great info.

sarah

> > >> We went ahead and bought the heavenly heat sauna because of

it's

> > > reputation, but it was actually the hightechhealth brochure and

> > > references that made me buy the sauna. How discouraging about

FIR

> > > because we put three FIR in our sauna and one regular heater.

We can

> > > turn the FIR all the way off and just use the regular

sauna.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My understanding is that ALA is often referred to as lipoic acid.

S S

<tt>

No, Lipoic acid is not the same as alpha lipoic acid.<BR>

Lipoic acid is referenced and recommended in andy cutler's amalgam<BR>

book as well as Dr. sherry books.<BR>

<BR>

ALA is not mentioned in Dr. book, not the one I have, anyway.<BR>

<BR>

To discredit Dr. Sherry on the basis of recommending ALA is<BR>

misinformation and false as far as I can see.  I just skimmed her<BR>

entire book tonite. She only mentions lipoic acid LA, just like Andy<BR>

Cutler.<BR>

<BR>

We went ahead and bought the heavenly heat sauna because of it's<BR>

reputation, but it was actually the hightechhealth brochure and<BR>

references that made me buy the sauna.  How discouraging about FIR<BR>

because we put three FIR in our sauna and one regular heater.  We can<BR>

turn the FIR all the way off and just use the regular sauna.    <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

><BR>

> ,<BR>

> <BR>

> I believe lipoic acid is the same as alpha lipoic acid (ALA).  If <BR>

> this is incorrect, I would like very much to see some documentation <BR>

> as to the difference.<BR>

> <BR>

> --<BR>

><BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

</tt>

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<tt>

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[Guest guest]

Since I waded into this, I guess I should go to Onibasu myself,

right? :-) Yes, it seems like is correct, though I did

find one post where Andy says (with some reservation) that the

Heavenly Heat FIR saunas are probably okay. The relevant comments

are towards the bottom of this post:

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/115701.html

Here are a few more good posts to look at about FIR:

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/153265.html

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/156973.html

Sorry if I've muddied the waters here, that wasn't my intention at

all.

René

> The Heavenly Heat saunas that Andy says are okay are the regular

> version. Heavenly Heat sells both types. I think Bob

> could settle any confusion about this. He often puts his phone

> number in his posts.

>

[Guest guest]

:

> Nowhere in Dr. Sherry book I have now " Detoxify or Die "

> does she say to take ALA. She does say to take lipoic acid, which

is different.

She is indeed referring to taking alpha lipoic acid, and in very

high dosages. In her resources in " Detoxify or Die " on page 328, you

will see that she recommends " Lipoic Acid " from " Metabolic

Maintenance " which she call " my favorite form " . On this company web

site, you'll find the product described as Alpha Lipoic Acid

(http://metabolicmaintenance.com/product.php?

productid=480 & cat=2 & page=1).

What is really disturbing to me, is not only that her dosing is so

high, but I can find nothing warning folks with amalgams in-place

that jumping into this super-aggressive mercury detox regime might

not be wise.

Bob.

[Guest guest]

,

> We went ahead and bought the heavenly heat sauna because of it's

> reputation .... How discouraging about FIR because we put three FIR

> in our sauna and one regular heater. We can

> turn the FIR all the way off and just use the regular sauna.

Hi ,

There is nothing dangerous about FIR per se, but there may be

hazards in how it is applied in some saunas, and in how some saunas

are constructed.

Your sauna has relatively mild FIR heating and each infrared module

has interior intensity control. You can use the sauna with or

without the FIR, or with the FIR at a low level. We find it best to

limit the amount of FIR initially and to introduce it once the user

is sweating well.

I described FIR sauna function to this group in a fairly technical

manner a while back - message #133094. You may find that some of

this info will answer your questions. If not, I'd be glad to answer

questions as best I can.

Andy has lots of reports of adverse reactions in FIR saunas, none

from ours - and he has stated this publicly. Your sauna is built in

a safe manner. Many are not, even several that pose disingenuously

as chemically safe.

Bob.

Heavenly Heat

bobmorgan @ heavenlyeatsaunas.com

[Guest guest]

Bob,

had mentioned in one of her recent posts that her

sauna has a strong smell that has not gone away after a

long period of time. I know you have mentioned before

that your saunas are built without chemicals or glues or

other things that can cause toxicity, so I assume it is

not a toxic issue. Is that right?

So is the smell in her sauna due, perhaps, to the type

of wood? Why would it persist so long? I am interested

in getting a sauna at some point and I would not want

one with a strong smell.

--

>

> ,

>

> > We went ahead and bought the heavenly heat sauna because of it's

> > reputation .... How discouraging about FIR because we put three FIR

> > in our sauna and one regular heater. We can

> > turn the FIR all the way off and just use the regular sauna.

>

> Hi ,

>

> There is nothing dangerous about FIR per se, but there may be

> hazards in how it is applied in some saunas, and in how some saunas

> are constructed.

>

> Your sauna has relatively mild FIR heating and each infrared module

> has interior intensity control. You can use the sauna with or

> without the FIR, or with the FIR at a low level. We find it best to

> limit the amount of FIR initially and to introduce it once the user

> is sweating well.

>

> I described FIR sauna function to this group in a fairly technical

> manner a while back - message #133094. You may find that some of

> this info will answer your questions. If not, I'd be glad to answer

> questions as best I can.

>

> Andy has lots of reports of adverse reactions in FIR saunas, none

> from ours - and he has stated this publicly. Your sauna is built in

> a safe manner. Many are not, even several that pose disingenuously

> as chemically safe.

>

> Bob.

> Heavenly Heat

>

> bobmorgan @ heavenlyeatsaunas.com

>

[Guest guest]

There is what I consider to be a mild, bland wood smell from the

white poplar. Most folks are OK with it right away, some need to

bake the unit for a few days, and occasionally a very sensitive

customer needs to bake it for a more prolonged period. 's has

apparently taken an unusually long time to become OK for her son.

I think that occasionally we might get some boards from our supplier

that are not quite dried to our rigid water content restrictions of

about 6%, or they pick up moisture at some point. I'm told that the

aromatics in the wood tend to be held within the wood's water.

Therefore, for our highly odor-sensitive customers, we now bake,

dehumidify, and then bake the sauna again before it goes out.

Our saunas were originally designed for the needs of Dr.

Rea's patients for aftercare. Dr. Rea is world-renowned for treating

the severely chemically injured. His patients, as well as our

customers, are some of the most chemically sensitive people there

are. The majority of his patients going through sauna detox use one

of our saunas in his Dallas clinic.

Those Canadian citizens diagnosed with MCS (multiple chemical

sensitivity) can go through a gov't sponsored detox regime in which

one of our saunas is also used successfully - again, with

extraordinarily sensitive folks.

So, in short, we use the least offensive wood species that we know

of to build safe saunas that have been used in literally thousands

of sauna sessions with exceptionally chemically-sensitive persons.

Bob.

>

> Bob,

>

> had mentioned in one of her recent posts that her

> sauna has a strong smell that has not gone away after a

> long period of time. I know you have mentioned before

> that your saunas are built without chemicals or glues or

> other things that can cause toxicity, so I assume it is

> not a toxic issue. Is that right?

>

> So is the smell in her sauna due, perhaps, to the type

> of wood? Why would it persist so long? I am interested

> in getting a sauna at some point and I would not want

> one with a strong smell.

>

> --

[Guest guest]

> > Nowhere in Dr. Sherry book I have now " Detoxify or Die "

> > does she say to take ALA. She does say to take lipoic acid, which

> is different.

ALA and lipoic acid as used in the nutritional supplement market and

in the medical literature are the same thing.

To assert otherwise is incompetent.

Alpha lipoic acid is one of the isomers of lipoic acid, and it is the

only one sold for human consumption. This is like saying hexane and

n-hexane are not the same thing - very misleading.

> She is indeed referring to taking alpha lipoic acid, and in very

> high dosages. In her resources in " Detoxify or Die " on page 328, you

> will see that she recommends " Lipoic Acid " from " Metabolic

> Maintenance " which she call " my favorite form " . On this company web

> site, you'll find the product described as Alpha Lipoic Acid

> (http://metabolicmaintenance.com/product.php?

> productid=480 & cat=2 & page=1).

Too bad more people don't do this kind of homework before offering

potentially harmful advice to others.

> What is really disturbing to me, is not only that her dosing is so

> high, but I can find nothing warning folks with amalgams in-place

> that jumping into this super-aggressive mercury detox regime might

> not be wise.

Alternative medicine is " medicine " in the religious sense as

promulgated by corruptly evil laws wherein special people are allowed

to tell us what to think and they always leave out any negative

information. E. g. vaccines are safe.

Andy

[Guest guest]

>

> There is what I consider to be a mild, bland wood smell from the

> white poplar. Most folks are OK with it right away, some need to

> bake the unit for a few days, and occasionally a very sensitive

> customer needs to bake it for a more prolonged period. 's has

> apparently taken an unusually long time to become OK for her son.

All wood will outgas for a while. Pine is by far the worst of the

commonly used woods.

This is generally different and a lot more benign than the

phenol-formaldehyde resins used to bond plywood, chipboard, fiberboard

(hardboard) and often as a glue.

The solution is to bake them out in the presence of some air flow for

a prolonged period.

Andy

[Guest guest]

,

Even untreated poplar wood can have a smell and it does bother some

extremely sensitive folks. I've heard it's rare tho. Our son's doctor,

Rea, who treats the chemically injured, recommends getting a

Heavenly Heat unit with more glass and less wood to lessen the chances

of problems. Our Heavenly Heat has three walls made of glass. I think

they have various options where you can have 0, 1, 2, 3, or all 4

walls made from glass.

Mom of C and D

> >

> > ,

> >

> > > We went ahead and bought the heavenly heat sauna because of it's

> > > reputation .... How discouraging about FIR because we put three FIR

> > > in our sauna and one regular heater. We can

> > > turn the FIR all the way off and just use the regular sauna.

> >

> > Hi ,

> >

> > There is nothing dangerous about FIR per se, but there may be

> > hazards in how it is applied in some saunas, and in how some saunas

> > are constructed.

> >

> > Your sauna has relatively mild FIR heating and each infrared module

> > has interior intensity control. You can use the sauna with or

> > without the FIR, or with the FIR at a low level. We find it best to

> > limit the amount of FIR initially and to introduce it once the user

> > is sweating well.

> >

> > I described FIR sauna function to this group in a fairly technical

> > manner a while back - message #133094. You may find that some of

> > this info will answer your questions. If not, I'd be glad to answer

> > questions as best I can.

> >

> > Andy has lots of reports of adverse reactions in FIR saunas, none

> > from ours - and he has stated this publicly. Your sauna is built in

> > a safe manner. Many are not, even several that pose disingenuously

> > as chemically safe.

> >

> > Bob.

> > Heavenly Heat

> >

> > bobmorgan @ heavenlyeatsaunas.com

> >

>