Guest guest Posted May 15, 2002 Report Share Posted May 15, 2002 , I too find supplementation difficult and confusing to get a grip on (I seam to remember Walford stating the hell with them at the end of his Practical supplementation section). It is further confused by a question I always have, are the RDA's really what I want to shoot for. As Walford said, we all have to make out own decisions. However, one has to bare in mind that reducing calories will reduce the essential nutrients. The confusion appears to be what is essential. Here is what I do, not a recommendation but what I have come to. 1) I try and make sure I get all of the essential vitamins and minerals from my dailey diet. There has been discussion and articles stating certain vitamins and minerals are more efficiently absorbed by the body in foods.I believe this is called Bioavailability. 2) I take a Multi-vitamin, with a meal (prevents upset stomach) once a day incase I have a borderline definciency. Eating a fortified breakfast cereal (such as Total) accomplishes the same as a multi-vitamin and is NOT the same as Bioavailability. 3) I eat one Brazilian nut a day to get excess Selenium (100 mg if I remember), a mineral that has anti-oxident properties. 4) I take 500 mg vitamin C and 400 UI vitamin E and an empty stomach before I drive 45 minutes ot work. I eat my breakfast when I get to work. Vitamin C can compete with absorption of other nutirents and is best taken on an empty stomach. 5) I eat 2 portion of Dairy to make sure I get enough Calcium and vitamin D together. 6) Lastly, I eat red meat 2-3 times a month to get excess iron and zinc. Iron particulalrly has been reported to be poorly absorbed from multi-vitamins and non-meat sources (something like 65% from meat and maybe 15% from veges, not sure of the exact numbers though). Hope this helps. Joe At 12:51 PM 5/15/02 -0400, you wrote: > I just finished Walford's book (The 120 Year Diet) and I am more confused >than ever about the issue of supplementation. > >Can some of you share with me some of your supplement regimes? I do quite >well with the food plans, but the more I learn about supplements, the less I >seem to know. > >Also, I am afraid to bring this up on the main list, as some people there >think that these types of questions are silly and off topic. I hope that >general crabbiness is NOT a side effect of the CRON diet! > >Regards, >Simone > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2002 Report Share Posted May 16, 2002 Sorry about the poor reception on the CRSOC side but you are certainly not alone in receiving such treatment. In response to your original question about red wine there was an article in today's WSJ reporting a study of light drinking in healthy middle-aged women. In addition to the pretty well know HDL increases they found that in women drinking two drinks a day, fasting insulin dropped 19%, triglycerides dropped 10%, and insulin sensitivity increased 7% (all good)... the only downside was levels of steroid hormones rose and these hormones have been linked to breast cancer. Drinking is clearly a "J" curve... a little can be good for you, a lot can be bad... 1-2 drinks per day could be beneficial. Regarding supplementation, it's clearly ideal to get 100+% from your diet, however there is much debate over what 100% is... CRON, CRAN, etc.... The first thing to do is cover your basics (anti-oxidants), second thing is to avoid overdosing (selenium poisoning, Vit A, etc....)... optimizing your diet is a lifetime pursuit but moderation and variety are good starting points.... JR -----Original Message-----From: Simone2@... [mailto:Simone2@...]Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 11:51 AM Subject: [ ] SupplementationI just finished Walford's book (The 120 Year Diet) and I am more confused than ever about the issue of supplementation. Can some of you share with me some of your supplement regimes? I do quite well with the food plans, but the more I learn about supplements, the less I seem to know.Also, I am afraid to bring this up on the main list, as some people there think that these types of questions are silly and off topic. I hope that general crabbiness is NOT a side effect of the CRON diet!Regards, Simone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2002 Report Share Posted May 16, 2002 Hello , I started out taking all sorts of supplements because this study or that indicated supplement X would help ward off cancer and supplement Y was protective against heart disease. Over time, as I became more confident in my abilities to manage my CRONie lifestyle, I felt less of a driving need to supplement my diet. If you look at it rationally, living as a CRONie with greatly reduced calories and greatly increased nutrition (compared to ad lib diet) the protection against cancer and heart disease is already built into the program as well as protection against a host of other ailments. We look to supplements as a part of the ON side of CRON. Perhaps there is room for supplementaion, but I am moving more and more in the direction away from supplementation. Supplements may be useful if you come to CRON late in life after a lifetime of abusive diet. Supplements may buy some time while your body repairs itself while on a CRON regimine. I think though, for the most part, people who are practicing CRON have been fairly health conscious most of their lives and probably weren't as abusive in their diets as most people. So in that regard, we have one leg up on everyone else anyway. My journey away from supplements began when I started questioning myself on why I was taking them. My diet analysis told me that I was getting well over the established RDAs. I learned from the group as well as from repeated rereading of Walford some of the finer points of bioavailability. You know....take C with iron and avoid tea & coffee around mealtime, etc. So I drink OJ or grapefruit juice with meals instead of taking a pill and I always follow dinner with 200 - 300 grams of mixed fresh fruits. I have my coffee mid morning if I have it at all. This is what being a CRONie is all about. Being aware of what you are eating, why you are eating it, and knowing when to eat it. This gives you a second leg up on everyone else. I personally take only lipoic acid now and will switch to the ®+ form when I can find it. The only other supplement I take is a multi vit & min on days when for one reason or other I didn't eat as well as I wished....(visit to the in-laws...grandsonson's birthday bash....etc). Rather than eating more to make up for lost nutrition, I choose to eat no more (calories) and opt for the supplement instead. At least you can CR on those days when you can't neccessarily ON. As I have said in previous messages, the ON part is variable but the CR part is fixed in stone. If you are going to take supplements, do yourself a big favor and find out why you think you need it/them. If the reason is valid in your particular case, then supplement. If you don't have a good reason then don't supplement. This is a personal journey you must make. I would not supplement because " everyone else is " because they are not. In your case, when you tell me you are confused about supplements, my advice to you is not to supplement until you are no longer confused. Once you find your answers, you'll also find that you will be taking far fewer supplements than you had originally envisioned. Remember this is CRON not CRON w/supplements. I wish you well, Bob > I just finished Walford's book (The 120 Year Diet) and I am more confused > than ever about the issue of supplementation. > > Can some of you share with me some of your supplement regimes? I do quite > well with the food plans, but the more I learn about supplements, the less I > seem to know. > > Also, I am afraid to bring this up on the main list, as some people there > think that these types of questions are silly and off topic. I hope that > general crabbiness is NOT a side effect of the CRON diet! > > Regards, > Simone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2002 Report Share Posted May 16, 2002 Francesca, Maybe I am wrong or misread it but I thought I read about taking at least vitamin C in the 120 year diet. I'll check tonight since I have my copy of the book at home. Joe At 10:26 PM 5/15/02 -0400, you wrote: >joe wrote: > >I take 500 mg vitamin C and 400 UI vitamin E and an empty stomach before >I drive 45 minutes ot work. I eat my breakfast when I get to >work. Vitamin C can compete with absorption of other nutirents and is best >taken on an empty stomach. > >Joe: I have always heard that one should NEVER take vitamins without food. >Vitamins (so I've been told) are in FOOD and should always be taken with it >in order to get anything from the vitamin. Where have you heard otherwise? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2002 Report Share Posted May 17, 2002 Francesca, Pages 121-175 of the 120 year diet. Deals with Walford's opinions on supplementing with vitamin C. Page 173: " If taken with food, 200 milligrams of vitamin C per day may double the amount of iron absorbed from food. This is undesirable unless you have an actual iron deficiency... " According to Walford iron has pro-oxidant effects which is not what we want and would off set the anti-oxidant effects of the vitamin C. Page 175, Walford specific recommendation; " My analysis leads me to recommend 500 milligrams of vitamin C, per day... The vitamin C should be in ester form and taken BETWEEN MEALS. " Last page 173, " But under certain conditions it may also have pro-oxidant properties, acting itself as a free radical. (Vitamin E is thought to counteract these pro-oxidant properties). " Now whether this is correct I am not certain. I am pretty sure I read in a health magazine somewhere a similar suggestion although I do not have that reference. Joe ph Fernandez Associate Director Protein/DNA Technology Center The Rockefeller University 1230 York Ave. NY,NY 10021 Phone: 212-327-8869 FAX: 212-327-8620 Email: fernaj@... website: pdtc.rockefeller.edu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2002 Report Share Posted May 18, 2002 Hi . I'm new to CRON myself but I've been interested in diet and supplementation for 20 years. I think there are several issues involved here that nobody seems to agree on: 1) Can we get the optimal amount of micronutrients from our diet? Many doctors say that the answer is a definite 'no' for certain nutrients. Selenium is one of them. Vitamin E is another. With modern farming practices, many nutrient levels are not what they used to be. Eating less calories may compound the issue. 2) Are there nutrients with beneficial effects at doses impossible to get from food? Some doctors would say yes and point out new research on alpha lipoic acid, acetyl-l-carnitine, carnosine, Co-Q10, and Omega-3 fatty acids. Vitamin E may actually fit in this category too. 3) Is it safe to supplement? I take a lot of supplements and understand that nothing is perfectly safe, including caloric restriction. But I do my homework and look for any signs of overdose. 4) Is it worth the cost? That's up to you. It can get pretty expensive if you follow something like my regimen. A couple good resources for helping educate you on what's available are the Life Extension Foundation and books by Lester Packer, n Whittaker or Earl Mindell. There's a lot more out there that other could recommend, but I've found these 4 resources to be pretty good. Dr Packer is a university researcher like Walford and as such, the information is pretty focused on his research into 'the network antioxidants', but I learned the most from his book. The others give more of a big picture and worth a read. Weil gives a conservative program in his last book that is good for beginners too. Feel free to email me off-line if you're interested in what I take on a daily basis. I wouldn't want to sound like an advertisement for certain companies here. And as far as taking vitamin C on an empty stomach concerned, that's one I've never heard. Vitamin C is very acidic (unless it is buffered) and is usually the MOST recommended to take with food. It does increase the absorption of iron, so that may be one reason, but still I haven't seen any empty stomch directions for it. The only nutrient that I take on an empty stomach is NADH. It's a coenzyme of B3 so it's not officially a vitamin. Hope that helps, Matt > I just finished Walford's book (The 120 Year Diet) and I am more confused > than ever about the issue of supplementation. > > Can some of you share with me some of your supplement regimes? I do quite > well with the food plans, but the more I learn about supplements, the less I > seem to know. > > Also, I am afraid to bring this up on the main list, as some people there > think that these types of questions are silly and off topic. I hope that > general crabbiness is NOT a side effect of the CRON diet! > > Regards, > Simone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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