Re: calorie count/evening munchies

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

Just a caution:

The obese women also displayed a different meal patternacross the day, consuming a larger number of meals later in the day. As a resulta larger fraction of each obese woman's total meals were consumed in theafternoon and in the evening/night. ....

PMID: 12122550 [PubMed - in process]

Cheers, Al.

-----Original Message-----From: Francesca Skelton [mailto:fskelton@...]Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [ ] calorie count/evening munchies> > Becca mentioned yesterday that sometimes an evening snack of popcorn would put> her over the top for her daily calorie count. Sometimes I begin the daily> calorie count at 5PM instead of in the morning when I wake up. That way the> evening snack isn't really the "end of the day," and those calories are> compensated for the following morning and afternoon. Sounds silly, but it's a> good mind trick.> > SuzAlong those lines, I also get more hungry after dinner than any other timeof day. I just eat a bit less during the day and at times when I'm not ashungry. I eat a very small breakfast since I'm usually not as hungry in themorning. This leaves me more "room" at night when I get the munchies. Itsounds so logical like duh.....of course, but you wouldn't believe how longit took me figure out WHEN to eat my alloted calories .

[Guest guest]

>

> Becca mentioned yesterday that sometimes an evening snack of popcorn would put

> her over the top for her daily calorie count. Sometimes I begin the daily

> calorie count at 5PM instead of in the morning when I wake up. That way the

> evening snack isn't really the " end of the day, " and those calories are

> compensated for the following morning and afternoon. Sounds silly, but it's a

> good mind trick.

>

> Suz

Along those lines, I also get more hungry after dinner than any other time

of day. I just eat a bit less during the day and at times when I'm not as

hungry. I eat a very small breakfast since I'm usually not as hungry in the

morning. This leaves me more " room " at night when I get the munchies. It

sounds so logical like duh.....of course, but you wouldn't believe how long

it took me figure out WHEN to eat my alloted calories.

[Guest guest]

thanks for the warning Al. However these days, I'm getting even thinner and

will soon (I think) need to eat MORE. I'm fast closing in on 110 lbs. down

from what I thought was a stable 113. I think it's all the guar which is a

good weight reducer for many reasons (dulls appetite and other guar

effects). Actually, in my case, all I eat after dinner is a large fruit

salad (large by CR standards) topped with FF yogurt and brewer's yeast.

on 7/25/2002 8:55 AM, Alan Pater at apater@... wrote:

> Hi All,

>

> Just a caution:

>

> The obese women also displayed a different meal pattern

> across the day, consuming a larger number of meals later in the day. As a

> result

> a larger fraction of each obese woman's total meals were consumed in the

> afternoon and in the evening/night. ....

>

> PMID: 12122550 [PubMed - in process]

>

> Cheers, Al.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Francesca Skelton [mailto:fskelton@...]

> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 9:53 AM

>

> Subject: Re: [ ] calorie count/evening munchies

>

>

>>

>> Becca mentioned yesterday that sometimes an evening snack of popcorn

> would put

>> her over the top for her daily calorie count. Sometimes I begin the

> daily

>> calorie count at 5PM instead of in the morning when I wake up. That way

> the

>> evening snack isn't really the " end of the day, " and those calories are

>> compensated for the following morning and afternoon. Sounds silly, but

> it's a

>> good mind trick.

>>

>> Suz

>

> Along those lines, I also get more hungry after dinner than any other time

> of day. I just eat a bit less during the day and at times when I'm not as

> hungry. I eat a very small breakfast since I'm usually not as hungry in

> the

> morning. This leaves me more " room " at night when I get the munchies. It

> sounds so logical like duh.....of course, but you wouldn't believe how

> long

> it took me figure out WHEN to eat my alloted calories .

>

[Guest guest]

Recent rat research has demonstrated that the primary function of sleep may be resupplying the brain with glycogen... very similar to muscles rebuilding stores after depletion.

Perhaps strategy's similar to those that speed muscular glycogen recovery may help sleep do it's work?

A carb snack before retiring may actually help the process??? Of course this is only one study, and my speculations are just that.

JR

-----Original Message-----From: Suzanne Cart [mailto:massuz@...]Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 9:15 AMCR Support GroupSubject: [ ] calorie count/evening munchies

Continuiing this thread...I've also thought that perhaps a planned bedtime meal would be the way to go. That certainly bucks conventional wisdom that it's "bad to eat at night," but if that's what the body WANTS, perhaps conventional wisdom is off base. As the body prepares for sleep in the last hours of the day, is it possible that there's a real need food? And why the urge to carbo load, specifically? I intuitively sense that the evening munchies are physiological, not psychological, even though real hunger per se is usually absent. I'd love to get to the bottom of this.

I know that important hormonal shifts occur in the evening. Is there a connection? My hunch is that yes, there are connections, but I doubt that we understand them yet. I've always heard that most excess pounds are usually attributed to overeating in the evenings, and many people tell me this is a problem for them. But as much digging as I've done on the subject, I've come up empty-handed except for a few vague explanations that don't really solve the problem. Although she's not an extraordinary expert, in my opinion, I'm thinking of Pamela Peeke and her coined phrase, "the cortizone." She identifies a key problem with changing levels of cortisol at day's end, but her solutions for managing the "cortizone" are very fuzzy pop-psychology-stress-management stuff. Sorry, stress management doesn't cut it Pamela. If it's a physiological problem, it demands an answer that will directly affect the body's chemistry. (Anyway, if I reduce stress any MORE, I'll turn into a walking zombie.)

If anyone wants to help by sending me links or book titles that might be helpful, I'd appreciate it.

[Guest guest]

Hi Ben,

I think what you suggest has been proven to be an incorrect assumption. I

do not think it is the efficiency of the calories you eat, but that you eat

more when you eat later at night. My thinking is it is not a good way to

go, because you get more swings in nutrient levels in the blood and this can

affect your mental processes also.

However, many would disagree. Fasting seems quite popular among CRONies

too.

Eating less is the bottom line in either road you take, IMO.

Cheers, Al.

> -----Original Message-----> From: Ben Levin [mailto:benjinsl@...]

> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 3:58 PM

>

> Hi All,

>

> >From: " Alan Pater " <apater@...>

> >The obese women also displayed a different meal pattern

> >across the day, consuming a larger number of meals later in

> the day. >As a

> >result a larger fraction of each obese woman's total meals

> were >consumed

> >in the afternoon and in the evening/night. ....

> >PMID: 12122550 [PubMed - in process]

>

> I completely agree with this; when you eat more calory-wise

> at night I would

> imagine that, since you're not actively using those calories

> while you sleep

> (as compared to when you're running around during the day)

> you're body

> shunts the excess into fat.

> How to get rid of those late day munchies I'm not sure, but

> it could have

> something to do with what is eaten for dinner. Or some

> deficiency of some

> other nutrient being compensated for. Maybe?

>

> Ben

> Ben

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

> http://www.hotmail.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

>From: " Alan Pater " <apater@...>

>The obese women also displayed a different meal pattern

>across the day, consuming a larger number of meals later in the day. >As a

>result a larger fraction of each obese woman's total meals were >consumed

>in the afternoon and in the evening/night. ....

>PMID: 12122550 [PubMed - in process]

I completely agree with this; when you eat more calory-wise at night I would

imagine that, since you're not actively using those calories while you sleep

(as compared to when you're running around during the day) you're body

shunts the excess into fat.

How to get rid of those late day munchies I'm not sure, but it could have

something to do with what is eaten for dinner. Or some deficiency of some

other nutrient being compensated for. Maybe?

Ben

Ben

_________________________________________________________________

Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Ben and Al: perhaps our CRONIE bodies function differently in this regard?

I know there are other differences between us and people who eat ad lib. In

my own case, I am almost at my all time low of 108 and I only ever was that

low because of serious illness (before CR of course) and not eating for long

stretches of time because of no appetite. I do not want to go below that

weight; my present low weight for me (hovering around 110) is with the late

night fruit salad and even a once-in-while CR Hot Fudge Sundae (see the new

recipe folder in the dessert file for the recipe).

on 7/25/2002 2:27 PM, Ben Levin at benjinsl@... wrote:

> Hi All,

>

>> From: " Alan Pater " <apater@...>

>> The obese women also displayed a different meal pattern

>> across the day, consuming a larger number of meals later in the day. >As a

>> result a larger fraction of each obese woman's total meals were >consumed

>> in the afternoon and in the evening/night. ....

>> PMID: 12122550 [PubMed - in process]

>

> I completely agree with this; when you eat more calory-wise at night I would

> imagine that, since you're not actively using those calories while you sleep

> (as compared to when you're running around during the day) you're body

> shunts the excess into fat.

> How to get rid of those late day munchies I'm not sure, but it could have

> something to do with what is eaten for dinner. Or some deficiency of some

> other nutrient being compensated for. Maybe?

>

> Ben

> Ben

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

> http://www.hotmail.com

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- Ben Levin <benjinsl@...> wrote:

> Hi All,

>

> >From: " Alan Pater " <apater@...>

> >The obese women also displayed a different meal

> pattern

> >across the day, consuming a larger number of meals

> later in the day. >As a

> >result a larger fraction of each obese woman's

> total meals were >consumed

> >in the afternoon and in the evening/night. ....

> >PMID: 12122550 [PubMed - in process]

>

> I completely agree with this; when you eat more

Since CRON is not a weight loss diet and is " calories,

calories, calories " , why should it make a difference

when you eat your calories? I am not starting up the

fasting and then eating controversy and the grazing

issue again, only saying that I, too, am not a

morning eater. If I stay at 1000 to 1100 calories and

spread them out over a day, it should not matter when

I eat the majority them. The previously mentioned

study was regarding obese women not those of " normal "

weight.

>

> imagine that, since you're not actively using those

> calories while you sleep

> (as compared to when you're running around during

> the day) you're body

> shunts the excess into fat.

> How to get rid of those late day munchies I'm not

> sure, but it could have

> something to do with what is eaten for dinner. Or

> some deficiency of some

> other nutrient being compensated for. Maybe?

>

> Ben

> Ben

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN

> Hotmail.

> http://www.hotmail.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If we assume all other things are constant for a moment (such as

other health effects) it would seem to me that it would be best CRON-

wise to follow whatever diet *minimizes* weight loss at a given

caloric level. If people store more fat by eating at night - lets

all eat at night! If people store more fat by eating fat/or carbs

lets all eat fat/or carbs! If people store more fat by grazing/3

square meals - you get the idea ...

Of course in reality the affects of the various options on health if

they have any also must be factored in. I certainly don't want to

lose much more weight. If you do want to lose weight just follow

CRON and it will happen automatically anyway - unless you have rare

genetics - in which case you'll probably still be pretty healthy

regardless.

[Guest guest]

> On 25 Jul 2002, Suzanne Cart wrote:

>

> Continuing this thread...I've also thought that

> perhaps a planned bedtime meal would be the way

> to go. That certainly bucks conventional wisdom

> that it's " bad to eat at night, " but if that's what

> the body WANTS, perhaps conventional wisdom is

> off-base. As the body prepares for sleep in the

> last hours of the day, is it possible that there's

> a real need food? And why the urge to carbo load,

> specifically? I intuitively sense that the evening

> munchies are physiological, not psychological,

> even though real hunger per se is usually absent.

> I'd love to get to the bottom of this.

Hello Suzanne and ALL:

Over a period of 2 years, I tried all types of eating

schedules. They have varied from eating 3 times a day

to eating once every two days. The schedules were

maintained for at least 2 months, to make sure the body

had time to accommodate and adjust properly.

If you go to bed without eating, you sleep poorly, and

will not be able to rest and recover for the next day.

This alone says that if you eat one meal a day,

that one meal that you eat is an evening meal.

Sleep in the evening is critical, and brain function

so important the next day, that an eating schedule that

meets this need is essential.

If you eat nothing but low glycemic veggies, lean meats,

and low-calorie treats (like Sucralose/guar/flavor extract/

de-fatted cocoa/ powdered cellulose-based, pudding, pies,

cheesecakes, and candies), it will be literally impossible

to overeat calories, no matter how much you consume.

-- Warren

[Guest guest]

on 7/26/2002 1:08 PM, Warren at warren.taylor@... wrote:

> f you eat nothing but low glycemic veggies, lean meats,

> and low-calorie treats (like Sucralose/guar/flavor extract/

> de-fatted cocoa/ powdered cellulose-based, pudding, pies,

> cheesecakes, and candies), it will be literally impossible

> to overeat calories, no matter how much you consume.

Warren: I assume this is a mistake and you meant: sucralose based

puddings, pies, cheesecakes and candies?

[Guest guest]

I personally eat three more or less equal-sized meals and am never hungry

after dinner. My " munchie " time is late afternoon. So, we're all different.

I have a theory that " munchies " is something to " fix " and it requires some

adjustment to your diet. I think I get the afternoon munchies because I

usually eat a low-carb meat and salad lunch at 11:30 am and get hypoglycemic

by 4 pm. I don't have this problem in the morning because my breakfast is

more " Zone " . Also, eating a lot of fruit makes my hungry. A high-carb meal

will make me hungry later. My latest theory is that food sensitivity may

have something to do with it. I have been eating too much watermelon and

Veggie Booty lately - and craving them. I just got IgG tested and melons and

soy (Veggie Booty has a lot of soy flour) were on my list of allergens. I've

quit eating them two weeks ago and have much less hunger.