Re: Extreme CR problems (was: CR, hormesis andmoderation)

[Guest guest]

Here's a question I've never seen answer to ...

Of the symptoms/problems below, presumably caused by CR, how many of them

have ever been seen in the research with rats & mice?

My impression is that few have been seen in rats & mice. If so, this would

force the question of applicability of that research to humans or at least

require some thought of how to avoid the problems.

Thoughts?

----- Original Message -----

From: " Francesca Skelton " <fskelton@...>

< >

Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:58 AM

Subject: Re: [ ]Extreme CR problems (was: CR, hormesis

andmoderation)

> Dave: AFA I know, the problems reported are not chronicled in any one

place.

> Some of the more " extremist " practitioners have reported:

>

> osteopenia and outright osteoporosis,

> low testosterone levels (meaning virtually no sex life),

> anemia,

> edema as reported today by crdude,

> irritability and crankiness,

> foggy memory and thinking

>

> ........had enough? If I've left out any, perhops others will add.

Anyway

> hopefully that should be enough to scare you away from extremism. Mind

you,

> I'm talking about 6' tall men who are weighing in at 115-130 lbs.

> Concentration camp thin, I call it.

[Guest guest]

Whoaaaaa there! That number two is big problem! I will forward this to my wife Chele...that should get me a huge banana split tonight! I wonder how may calories that would be? Anyway, thanks for the info...I won't worry about it yet... if I get down to 115, I'll mail myself to Dr. Walford for review! Have a good one. Dave

----- Original Message -----

From: Francesca Skelton

Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 10:58 AM

Subject: Re: [ ]Extreme CR problems (was: CR, hormesis andmoderation)

Dave: AFA I know, the problems reported are not chronicled in any one place.Some of the more "extremist" practitioners have reported:osteopenia and outright osteoporosis,low testosterone levels (meaning virtually no sex life),anemia, edema as reported today by crdude,irritability and crankiness,foggy memory and thinking........had enough? If I've left out any, perhops others will add. Anywayhopefully that should be enough to scare you away from extremism. Mind you,I'm talking about 6' tall men who are weighing in at 115-130 lbs.Concentration camp thin, I call it.on 8/28/2002 12:47 PM, Dave Noel at davenoel@... wrote:> Are we allowed to use the word "hormesis" in a public forum? After I got out> of the microwave (it's really hot in there!), I read the rest of this post ~> should have read the whole thing first I guess...at any rate, is there a> guideline for optimum CR. I sort of thought that by definition CRON would be> self regulating in that one might have a tough time securing "optimum> nutrition" at extreme levels of caloric restriction, but perhaps that is not> the case. I would be interested in knowing more about "problems" or "stuff"> experienced by individuals practicing extreme CR ~ by the way, I would like to> learn about these issues BEFORE I get back into the microwave. Is there a> resource for problems that have been experienced by CRON practitioners? Dave> ----- Original Message -----> From: Micky Snir > > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 10:05 AM> Subject: [ ] CR, hormesis and moderation>

[Guest guest]

I heard that they were going to test at least one of these results in the laboratory, but unfortunately the control mice kept slipping out of there bikinis...ruined the entire experiment!

If you get ANY information about these problematic results of CRON, please post them. I guess the more important question is whether or not any of these issues have been experienced by those practicing a more moderate level of CRON. Perhaps we can have the wives or practitioners in the group respond ~ anonymously of course! Dave

----- Original Message -----

From: Hipp

Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:33 AM

Subject: Re: [ ]Extreme CR problems (was: CR, hormesis andmoderation)

Here's a question I've never seen answer to ...Of the symptoms/problems below, presumably caused by CR, how many of themhave ever been seen in the research with rats & mice?My impression is that few have been seen in rats & mice. If so, this wouldforce the question of applicability of that research to humans or at leastrequire some thought of how to avoid the problems.Thoughts?----- Original Message -----From: "Francesca Skelton" <fskelton@...>< >Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:58 AMSubject: Re: [ ]Extreme CR problems (was: CR, hormesisandmoderation)> Dave: AFA I know, the problems reported are not chronicled in any oneplace.> Some of the more "extremist" practitioners have reported:>> osteopenia and outright osteoporosis,> low testosterone levels (meaning virtually no sex life),> anemia,> edema as reported today by crdude,> irritability and crankiness,> foggy memory and thinking>> ........had enough? If I've left out any, perhops others will add.Anyway> hopefully that should be enough to scare you away from extremism. Mindyou,> I'm talking about 6' tall men who are weighing in at 115-130 lbs.> Concentration camp thin, I call it.

[Guest guest]

ROFLMSKO (Rolling etc. my skinny ass off). I am a moderate practitioner

annnnd - have never noticed low testosterone levels :-))))

I do have osteopenia. BUT I'm shall we say " of an age " and in a high risk

group (and have other possible causes rather than CR). Some of the others

with osteopenia are men in their 30's who also have the testosterone levels

of a 90 year old geyser.

We have not noted a trend that the more moderate practitioners have any of

these problems. Also the Okinawans, the " living lab' for CR, who are

moderate practitioners, don't seem to have these problems.

Oh yes, a couple of other " side effects " I forgot to mention:

*feeling cold all the time (my own take on that is: no insulation or body

fat)

*inability to sit comfortably (such as on an airplane) due to skinny tush

syndrome

on 8/28/2002 1:53 PM, Dave Noel at davenoel@... wrote:

> I heard that they were going to test at least one of these results in the

> laboratory, but unfortunately the control mice kept slipping out of there

> bikinis...ruined the entire experiment!

>

> If you get ANY information about these problematic results of CRON, please

> post them. I guess the more important question is whether or not any of these

> issues have been experienced by those practicing a more moderate level of

> CRON. Perhaps we can have the wives or practitioners in the group respond ~

> anonymously of course! Dave

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Hipp

>

> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:33 AM

> Subject: Re: [ ]Extreme CR problems (was: CR, hormesis

> andmoderation)

>

>

> Here's a question I've never seen answer to ...

>

> Of the symptoms/problems below, presumably caused by CR, how many of them

> have ever been seen in the research with rats & mice?

>

> My impression is that few have been seen in rats & mice. If so, this would

> force the question of applicability of that research to humans or at least

> require some thought of how to avoid the problems.

>

> Thoughts?

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " Francesca Skelton " <fskelton@...>

> < >

> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:58 AM

> Subject: Re: [ ]Extreme CR problems (was: CR, hormesis

> andmoderation)

>

>

>> Dave: AFA I know, the problems reported are not chronicled in any one

> place.

>> Some of the more " extremist " practitioners have reported:

>>

>> osteopenia and outright osteoporosis,

>> low testosterone levels (meaning virtually no sex life),

>> anemia,

>> edema as reported today by crdude,

>> irritability and crankiness,

>> foggy memory and thinking

>>

>> ........had enough? If I've left out any, perhops others will add.

> Anyway

>> hopefully that should be enough to scare you away from extremism. Mind

> you,

>> I'm talking about 6' tall men who are weighing in at 115-130 lbs.

>> Concentration camp thin, I call it.

>

>

>

>

>