CR, hormesis and moderation

[Guest guest]

Francesca, I hereby grant you permission to forward any email I send to

CrSociety to this list ( ).

Micky.

-----Original Message-----

From: Francesca Skelton [mailto:fskelton@...]

Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 4:39 AM

Micky Snir

Subject: Micky.....

I agree!! Could you post this to the support list? I have long

worried

about the " extremists " - there's a fine line between CR and

starvation........

Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:23:17 -0700

From: Micky Snir <mickys@...>

Subject: CR, hormesis and moderation

If you hate long emails (like I do), you can skip to the " Research

Proposal " at the end (or to " My Point " a paragraph above it).

Lets consider hormesis as the method that extends life via CR. Now

although saying " hormesis " is like saying " we don't know how, but it

works! " and although hormesis may have nothing to do with CR, I would

still like to use the analogy of hormesis to CR. I will use the hormesis

effect of ionizing radiation.

Lets assume that the life-span (LS) with zero radiation is 60, LS with 1

radiation is 70, LS with 2 radiation is 80, LS with 3 radiation is 70,

with 4 60 and with 5 50. (lack of units is intentional).

It's quite obvious that we would want to live with a radiation of 2 for

maximal life span. (Some might get " confused " , and if given the choice

between radiation of 1 or 3 would never take 3... but it doesn't matter,

LS wise.) The problem is that we don't know what radiation of " 2 " is,

and even if we did, there would be variance among people's " 2 " .

Now let's assume you are born into a world with no radiation at all. At

some point in your adult life, you decide you want to live longer

(forever?) because life is so great for you. You happen to stumble upon

Dr Woolford's book " The 120 Year Radiation Therapy " that tells you that

if you buy the expensive ionizing radiation apparatus, it will cost you

only about an extra $500 per month to get enough radiation to safely

extend your life. The problem with Dr Woolford's book, is that it has no

direct evidence for humans (only rats and such), and it also seems that

the exact radiation profile for max benefits is not clear (exact

radiation spectrum distribution and intensity as a function of time and

health status is not clear, nor the exposed body areas).

You decide your life is precious, and you buy the apparatus, but due to

lack of money you use radiation at about only $300 per month. You join

the Radiation mailing list, and some M. Ray guy says that each $100 of

radiation is worth an extra day of living, per month (some restrictions

apply... small print). You happen to win the lottery, and since money is

not a problem now, you go on a $1000 radiation per month regimen. The

weird skin disorders you had started to disappear, and after a while

completely healed! It works! Dr. Woolford is a genius! Hail radiation

therapy! (anyone read Solzhenitsyn's book?)

A few years down the road you are starting to feel bad. Could it be

cancer? Would stopping the radiation " therapy " help, or is it too late

and too much damage has accumulated?

My point: human CR is experimental. No one knows the calorie restriction

level, in which it is beneficial in humans, and calorie-restriction

exacerbates the need for optimized nutrition, and surprise: the variance

in opinions (for optimal nutrition) is amazing! Just consider the most

basic argument over macronutrient ratios!

Getting back to my analogy above: could it be that restricting calories

too much, especially with un-optimized nutrition, would cause

irreparable damage, or at least cause damage that will shorten the life

span? I mean, I'm reading on this mailing list all kinds of weird

" stuff " that happens to the seemingly more extreme members, and it

virtually scares me. But... how much is too much?

One of the missing pieces of the CR puzzle is the markers of a too

extreme CR.

Research Proposal: perform a too-extreme CR experiment with rats, and

try to find out the markers of a too-extreme CR (besides the obvious

pre-mature death :-) ). This should benefit the human CR community: we

will know what to watch out for.

Micky.

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