Re: CR problems (was: CR, hormesis andmoderation)

[Guest guest]

Hi JR and All,

I used to have this problem while ad libbing it. Now it is history. I am 55 years old and about as CRed as any are. On average, others have no problem or improved. Big meals, afternoon deep chesterfields were a problem.Cheers, Al.

-----Original Message-----From: john roberts [mailto:johnhrob@...]Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 4:18 PM Subject: RE: [ ] CR problems (was: CR, hormesis andmoderation)

I have also experienced some baro-reflex related dizziness upon standing (too quickly) but IMO that's a fair tradeoff for a 53 year old to enjoy low blood pressure (98/63)... Baro-reflex naturally declines with age, add that to unusually low BP and stuff happens. I'm sure many with elevated BP would gladly trade.

There are many different CRON paths, perhaps as many as there are individuals and Micky sounds like he's got his on track and under control.

JR

[Guest guest]

I have also experienced some baro-reflex related dizziness upon standing (too quickly) but IMO that's a fair tradeoff for a 53 year old to enjoy low blood pressure (98/63)... Baro-reflex naturally declines with age, add that to unusually low BP and stuff happens. I'm sure many with elevated BP would gladly trade.

There are many different CRON paths, perhaps as many as there are individuals and Micky sounds like he's got his on track and under control.

JR

-----Original Message-----From: Francesca Skelton [mailto:fskelton@...]Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [ ] CR problems (was: CR, hormesis andmoderation)Micky: If you were having dizziness, dry hands, libido loss, weakness(we'll overlook the mild obsession with health and food, since you're nowseemingly questioning that) you were doing something wrong. I, and I'mwilling to bet most other moderates, haven't had those symptoms/problems.Anyway, whatever that was about, it's good you are questioning.AFA my answers (and I suspect other's answers) to your original post, I wasjust adding my own observations of the behavior of some extremists. Theearlier posts today to the list: one from Kitty which incorporated a postfrom Cavanaugh, and an answer from me, confirm that some of theextremists are exhibiting the questionable behavior I was talking aboutyesterday.on 8/29/2002 1:06 PM, Micky Snir at mickys@... wrote:but at the dangers of CR. I will set an example by stating the good benniesfor me, and the dangers I faced:> Dangers: crankiness, being perceived as a "weird eater" by friends (or a> heath nut), dizziness upon getting up (probably a baro-refelx issue,> once to the point of blacking out; fixed now), extremely dry hands> (fixed now), mild loss of libido, weakness/shakiness in the afternoon> (disappeared after adding salt!) and a mild obsession about health and> food.> > For the record, I'm not an extreme CR practitioner. I eat about 2000> calories per day, workout only 3 times a week for less than 40 minutes> each time; I'm 5'10" and weighed this morning 173 pound with 10% body> fat. Still loosing weight very slowly.> > Micky.

[Guest guest]

Francesca, I have to disagree. Some of these symptoms are

simply weight loss symptoms (Baro-Reflex) and some are known CR drawbacks

(libido) and some where noticed in the biospherans (skin problems).

You’re willing to bet worries me, because it might be a symptom your mind

“closing”. I’m especially worried since this being a support

group would suggest higher sensitivity to the dangers in CR. CR is dangerous

and you know it! You know of all the people in the main list that damage

their health in the name of CR. Do I need to say acute anemia, osteoporosis

with broken bones, anorexia, edema etc.?

Yes, CR needs to be promoted and we need to remind us all

of how good CR is; but let’s not forget the dangers.

Micky.

-----Original

Message-----

From: Francesca Skelton

[mailto:fskelton@...]

Sent: Thursday,

August 29, 2002 12:34 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] CR

problems (was: CR, hormesis andmoderation)

Micky: If you were having dizziness, dry hands,

libido loss, weakness

(we'll

overlook the mild obsession with health and food, since you're now

seemingly

questioning that) you were doing something wrong. I, and I'm

willing to

bet most other moderates, haven't had those symptoms/problems.

Anyway,

whatever that was about, it's good you are questioning.

AFA my

answers (and I suspect other's answers) to your original post, I was

just adding

my own observations of the behavior of some extremists. The

earlier

posts today to the list: one from Kitty which incorporated a post

from

Cavanaugh, and an answer from me, confirm that some of the

extremists

are exhibiting the questionable behavior I was talking about

yesterday.

on 8/29/2002 1:06 PM, Micky Snir at

mickys@... wrote:

but at the

dangers of CR. I will set an example by stating the good bennies

for me, and

the dangers I faced:

>

Dangers: crankiness, being perceived as a " weird eater " by friends

(or a

> heath

nut), dizziness upon getting up (probably a baro-refelx issue,

> once to

the point of blacking out; fixed now), extremely dry hands

> (fixed

now), mild loss of libido, weakness/shakiness in the afternoon

>

(disappeared after adding salt!) and a mild obsession about health and

> food.

>

> For the

record, I'm not an extreme CR practitioner. I eat about 2000

> calories

per day, workout only 3 times a week for less than 40 minutes

> each

time; I'm 5'10 " and weighed this morning 173 pound with 10% body

> fat. Still

loosing weight very slowly.

>

> Micky.

[Guest guest]

I'll give you two Baro-Relfexes and one Edema for that Libido...now ya'all stop talking about that libido thing or I'm outa here...on my way to Micky Ds for a Happy Meal ! On a serious note, not that the libido thing isn't serious because it is ~ way too many posts mentioning that for my comfort~ anyway, as a novice, I didn't want to say anything, but some of the XCRONies that I have seen in photographs don't really look all that healthy! I am hoping that this group will continue to talk openly about how to maximize the benefits and minimize the detriments of CRON! Dave

----- Original Message -----

From: Micky Snir

Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 2:31 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] CR problems (was: CR, hormesis andmoderation)

Francesca, I have to disagree. Some of these symptoms are simply weight loss symptoms (Baro-Reflex) and some are known CR drawbacks (libido) and some where noticed in the biospherans (skin problems). You’re willing to bet worries me, because it might be a symptom your mind “closing”. I’m especially worried since this being a support group would suggest higher sensitivity to the dangers in CR. CR is dangerous and you know it! You know of all the people in the main list that damage their health in the name of CR. Do I need to say acute anemia, osteoporosis with broken bones, anorexia, edema etc.?

Yes, CR needs to be promoted and we need to remind us all of how good CR is; but let’s not forget the dangers.

Micky.

-----Original Message-----From: Francesca Skelton [mailto:fskelton@...]Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [ ] CR problems (was: CR, hormesis andmoderation)

Micky: If you were having dizziness, dry hands, libido loss, weakness(we'll overlook the mild obsession with health and food, since you're nowseemingly questioning that) you were doing something wrong. I, and I'mwilling to bet most other moderates, haven't had those symptoms/problems.Anyway, whatever that was about, it's good you are questioning.AFA my answers (and I suspect other's answers) to your original post, I wasjust adding my own observations of the behavior of some extremists. Theearlier posts today to the list: one from Kitty which incorporated a postfrom Cavanaugh, and an answer from me, confirm that some of theextremists are exhibiting the questionable behavior I was talking aboutyesterday.on 8/29/2002 1:06 PM, Micky Snir at mickys@... wrote:but at the dangers of CR. I will set an example by stating the good benniesfor me, and the dangers I faced:> Dangers: crankiness, being perceived as a "weird eater" by friends (or a> heath nut), dizziness upon getting up (probably a baro-refelx issue,> once to the point of blacking out; fixed now), extremely dry hands> (fixed now), mild loss of libido, weakness/shakiness in the afternoon> (disappeared after adding salt!) and a mild obsession about health and> food.> > For the record, I'm not an extreme CR practitioner. I eat about 2000> calories per day, workout only 3 times a week for less than 40 minutes> each time; I'm 5'10" and weighed this morning 173 pound with 10% body> fat. Still loosing weight very slowly.> > Micky.

[Guest guest]

Micky: here is the key to what you said: " You

> know of all the people in the main list that damage their health in the

> name of CR. Do I need to say acute anemia, osteoporosis with broken

> bones, anorexia, edema etc.? "

Yes, of course I am aware of all the problems posted on the CR Society List.

But we haven't heard about them on this list. Or at least nowhere to the

extent of the " extremists " on the Society list. I think you're lumping the

lists together. To be honest, I have assumed that moderate practitioners

and those who take it slow will be OK. As you said in your first post,

there's a point at which CRON may be optimum and a point where it might be

detrimental. However if moderate CRONIES do have these problems, then it

would stand to reason that anyone out there on ANY kind of diet would/should

also have these kinds of problems (since all that CRON is after all - is a

low calorie, highly nutritious DIET).

Did you take it slow in your weight loss? Many people are in a hurry and

lose too fast. The fact that many (most?) moderates have NOT reported these

problems has to mean SOMETHING.

on 8/29/2002 4:31 PM, Micky Snir at mickys@... wrote:

> Francesca, I have to disagree. Some of these symptoms are simply weight

> loss symptoms (Baro-Reflex) and some are known CR drawbacks (libido) and

> some where noticed in the biospherans (skin problems). You're willing to

> bet worries me, because it might be a symptom your mind " closing " . I'm

> especially worried since this being a support group would suggest higher

> sensitivity to the dangers in CR. CR is dangerous and you know it! You

> know of all the people in the main list that damage their health in the

> name of CR. Do I need to say acute anemia, osteoporosis with broken

> bones, anorexia, edema etc.?

>

>

>

> Yes, CR needs to be promoted and we need to remind us all of how good CR

> is; but let's not forget the dangers.

>

>

>

> Micky.

>