Guest guest Posted August 28, 2002 Report Share Posted August 28, 2002 I am reluctant to claim that I am on "cron" per se, since I am still at a loss regarding how to accurately determine my setpoint, but I have reduced my caloric intake and lost 40+ lbs over the last 2 years. A few months ago my BP dropped 10-15 pts. I perceive my current 96/63 below average for my age (53) and a a health benefit possibly related to my improved nutrition and exercise program. At a BMI of 23 I am what some might call a CR fatty, but I recently increased calories to compensate for a perceived loss of strength that affected my basketball game...(OK now) In my opinion quality of life is paramount... who cares how long you live if you're not enjoying it. JR -----Original Message-----From: Dave Noel [mailto:davenoel@...]Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Extreme CR problems (was: CR, hormesisand moderation) You thought I was going to respond to that "fuzzy thinking" comment didn't you ~ HA! You can't suck me in, even if you were talking about me! Hey, does extreme CRONing cause paranoia too? So I've heard enough about the risks associated with XCRONing, how about some good news. Has anyone in this group, with some history of practicing CRON i.e. a year or more, had good results in terms of health, biomarkers, general well-being. Although I always ate well, I have been following CRON guidelines for only 20 days and could always use some motivation in order to ignore that Good Humor Man's incessant bell ringing outside! Just in case (and I hope this is the case) everyone has a story of positive results, feel free to respond off list so as not to clog the list up. How old IS the oldest CRON practitioner in the group anyway? I would be really interested in that person's results. Thanks, Dave davenoel@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Francesca Skelton Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Extreme CR problems (was: CR, hormesisand moderation) Mickey and Joe: first of all, my hat is off to Mickey for his healthyquestioning of what he's seeing. But I'd like to add to Joe's mention ofevidence that we also have the example of a human population: the Okinawans,who live longer and healthier. However, they practise CR in moderation andNOT to the extreme.I question also (sticking my own neck out here) whether the extremism causesan abnormal mental behavioral change (and I disagree that extremism is seenon this list; at least not to the degree as on the Society list) . Does theextreme CR lead to the fanaticism and fervor you talk about? Or, perhaps CRattracts people who are already obsessive in their behavior?After all we know there are some mental effects such as irritability andfuzzy thinking in some individuals, so it's not such a stretch.on 8/28/2002 3:44 PM, joesmad2001 at fernaj@... wrote:> Micky,>......... While the human evidence is weaker> than rat data regarding CR and life extension, I think we can safely> say that CR would prolong life in humans. Let's not forget the other> encouraging evidence from Rhesus monkeys and I believe here was a> study lengthening canine life through calories restricion.> > My interest in the 120 year diet is the ON part, life extension is> great if it works but the ON will unarguably improve the quality of> what life you have.> Jpe> > >> While I'm on a roll, I'd like to share with you some more CR> thoughts.>> Both as an observer and as a practitioner, I notice some worrying>> "religious" like symptoms regarding practice of CR. (please, no> offense>> for religious people, but it seems to me so easier to explain it in>> these terms. CR and religion also have good sides, obviously).......>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2002 Report Share Posted August 28, 2002 Wow....I am very impressed with that BP reading! I wonder if that is a common experience? As for the basketball, I suspect that the guys playing with you are wearing lifts in their shoes. I saw a 20/20 (or some such show) about that...everyone is doing it. The next time you're on the court getting beaten up, just demand that everyone remove their shoes and prove to you that they are not being vertically enhanced by artificial means! Thanks for the feedback and by the way a BMI of 23 does not sound like a CR fatty to me...what % of body fat is that? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: john roberts Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 4:22 PM Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Extreme CR ...QOL I am reluctant to claim that I am on "cron" per se, since I am still at a loss regarding how to accurately determine my setpoint, but I have reduced my caloric intake and lost 40+ lbs over the last 2 years. A few months ago my BP dropped 10-15 pts. I perceive my current 96/63 below average for my age (53) and a a health benefit possibly related to my improved nutrition and exercise program. At a BMI of 23 I am what some might call a CR fatty, but I recently increased calories to compensate for a perceived loss of strength that affected my basketball game...(OK now) In my opinion quality of life is paramount... who cares how long you live if you're not enjoying it. JR -----Original Message-----From: Dave Noel [mailto:davenoel@...]Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Extreme CR problems (was: CR, hormesisand moderation) You thought I was going to respond to that "fuzzy thinking" comment didn't you ~ HA! You can't suck me in, even if you were talking about me! Hey, does extreme CRONing cause paranoia too? So I've heard enough about the risks associated with XCRONing, how about some good news. Has anyone in this group, with some history of practicing CRON i.e. a year or more, had good results in terms of health, biomarkers, general well-being. Although I always ate well, I have been following CRON guidelines for only 20 days and could always use some motivation in order to ignore that Good Humor Man's incessant bell ringing outside! Just in case (and I hope this is the case) everyone has a story of positive results, feel free to respond off list so as not to clog the list up. How old IS the oldest CRON practitioner in the group anyway? I would be really interested in that person's results. Thanks, Dave davenoel@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Francesca Skelton Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Extreme CR problems (was: CR, hormesisand moderation) Mickey and Joe: first of all, my hat is off to Mickey for his healthyquestioning of what he's seeing. But I'd like to add to Joe's mention ofevidence that we also have the example of a human population: the Okinawans,who live longer and healthier. However, they practise CR in moderation andNOT to the extreme.I question also (sticking my own neck out here) whether the extremism causesan abnormal mental behavioral change (and I disagree that extremism is seenon this list; at least not to the degree as on the Society list) . Does theextreme CR lead to the fanaticism and fervor you talk about? Or, perhaps CRattracts people who are already obsessive in their behavior?After all we know there are some mental effects such as irritability andfuzzy thinking in some individuals, so it's not such a stretch.on 8/28/2002 3:44 PM, joesmad2001 at fernaj@... wrote:> Micky,>......... While the human evidence is weaker> than rat data regarding CR and life extension, I think we can safely> say that CR would prolong life in humans. Let's not forget the other> encouraging evidence from Rhesus monkeys and I believe here was a> study lengthening canine life through calories restricion.> > My interest in the 120 year diet is the ON part, life extension is> great if it works but the ON will unarguably improve the quality of> what life you have.> Jpe> > >> While I'm on a roll, I'd like to share with you some more CR> thoughts.>> Both as an observer and as a practitioner, I notice some worrying>> "religious" like symptoms regarding practice of CR. (please, no> offense>> for religious people, but it seems to me so easier to explain it in>> these terms. CR and religion also have good sides, obviously).......>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2002 Report Share Posted August 29, 2002 For any old enough to remember the old Disney movie I could use some "flubber" for my basketball shoes... my main problem is playing with kids half my age and younger who can play above the rim... that's why I need my outside shot to fall. Determining my BF is almost as much of an unknown as my set point. I bought a Tanita (don't waste your money). My daily measurements range from low of 8% to high of 17%.. Since the lowest readings are at night after drinking a few beers and at my heaviest, it's all suspect. It surely is ridiculous to have 0.1% resolution and vary that much. The only thing I can say about my BF is that it's lower than it was. Yes, reduced BP has been reported by several CRONies. JR -----Original Message-----From: Dave Noel [mailto:davenoel@...]Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 5:51 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Extreme CR ...QOL Wow....I am very impressed with that BP reading! I wonder if that is a common experience? As for the basketball, I suspect that the guys playing with you are wearing lifts in their shoes. I saw a 20/20 (or some such show) about that...everyone is doing it. The next time you're on the court getting beaten up, just demand that everyone remove their shoes and prove to you that they are not being vertically enhanced by artificial means! Thanks for the feedback and by the way a BMI of 23 does not sound like a CR fatty to me...what % of body fat is that? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: john roberts Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 4:22 PM Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Extreme CR ...QOL I am reluctant to claim that I am on "cron" per se, since I am still at a loss regarding how to accurately determine my setpoint, but I have reduced my caloric intake and lost 40+ lbs over the last 2 years. A few months ago my BP dropped 10-15 pts. I perceive my current 96/63 below average for my age (53) and a a health benefit possibly related to my improved nutrition and exercise program. At a BMI of 23 I am what some might call a CR fatty, but I recently increased calories to compensate for a perceived loss of strength that affected my basketball game...(OK now) In my opinion quality of life is paramount... who cares how long you live if you're not enjoying it. JR -----Original Message-----From: Dave Noel [mailto:davenoel@...]Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Extreme CR problems (was: CR, hormesisand moderation) You thought I was going to respond to that "fuzzy thinking" comment didn't you ~ HA! You can't suck me in, even if you were talking about me! Hey, does extreme CRONing cause paranoia too? So I've heard enough about the risks associated with XCRONing, how about some good news. Has anyone in this group, with some history of practicing CRON i.e. a year or more, had good results in terms of health, biomarkers, general well-being. Although I always ate well, I have been following CRON guidelines for only 20 days and could always use some motivation in order to ignore that Good Humor Man's incessant bell ringing outside! Just in case (and I hope this is the case) everyone has a story of positive results, feel free to respond off list so as not to clog the list up. How old IS the oldest CRON practitioner in the group anyway? I would be really interested in that person's results. Thanks, Dave davenoel@... ----- Original Message ----- From: Francesca Skelton Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Extreme CR problems (was: CR, hormesisand moderation) Mickey and Joe: first of all, my hat is off to Mickey for his healthyquestioning of what he's seeing. But I'd like to add to Joe's mention ofevidence that we also have the example of a human population: the Okinawans,who live longer and healthier. However, they practise CR in moderation andNOT to the extreme.I question also (sticking my own neck out here) whether the extremism causesan abnormal mental behavioral change (and I disagree that extremism is seenon this list; at least not to the degree as on the Society list) . Does theextreme CR lead to the fanaticism and fervor you talk about? Or, perhaps CRattracts people who are already obsessive in their behavior?After all we know there are some mental effects such as irritability andfuzzy thinking in some individuals, so it's not such a stretch.on 8/28/2002 3:44 PM, joesmad2001 at fernaj@... wrote:> Micky,>......... While the human evidence is weaker> than rat data regarding CR and life extension, I think we can safely> say that CR would prolong life in humans. Let's not forget the other> encouraging evidence from Rhesus monkeys and I believe here was a> study lengthening canine life through calories restricion.> > My interest in the 120 year diet is the ON part, life extension is> great if it works but the ON will unarguably improve the quality of> what life you have.> Jpe> > >> While I'm on a roll, I'd like to share with you some more CR> thoughts.>> Both as an observer and as a practitioner, I notice some worrying>> "religious" like symptoms regarding practice of CR. (please, no> offense>> for religious people, but it seems to me so easier to explain it in>> these terms. CR and religion also have good sides, obviously).......>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2002 Report Share Posted August 29, 2002 ----- Original Message ----- From: " john roberts " <johnhrob@...> > Determining my BF is almost as much of an unknown as my set point. I bought > a Tanita (don't waste your money). I bought a Tanita, and i am *very* happy with it. In fact, i would recommend it to anyone, even folks who would reject CR. It would certainly be worthwhile for more folks to be aware of where they stand, in terms of life danger. I started several months back with ~12% BF, now about 7.5%. This does not seem to vary more than about 0.5% over the day. The biggest change i have seen in a short period is 1% over 24 hours. I believe these variances i see, come from not so much actual BF variation, as variability in test conditions, i mean like skin resistance. My daily measurements range from low of > 8% to high of 17%.. Something be wrong here. It surely is ridiculous to > have 0.1% resolution and vary that much. Right- the 0.1 digit is somewhat suspect, but we would probably be less happy with the scale if the lowest resolution was 1% and the machine did the rounding and guesswork on its own. Hue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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