RE: Atkins (WAS: hypoglycemia)

[Guest guest]

IMO, what matters first is calorie

restriction, and what matters third is Optimal/Adequate nutrition (and I know

there are others on the list that disagrees. BTW, CR comes second as well as

first :-). Thus if an Atkins-like diet helps one to maintain a calorie

restricted diet, then fine. Please note that one can practice a healthy Atkins-like

diet. I did. Shy away from all hydrogenated fats, from most saturated fats and

from most processed foods; eat lots of high-fiber low calorie veggies; choose

low-Omega-6 nuts; eat some berries once in a while etc…

That said, in order to further optimize my

diet, I increased my veggie/berry intake, thus reduced my fat intake, which

puts me on a Zone-like diet.

The only real danger with very-low-carb

diets, is that one can easily eat too many calories from fat (the problem is “too

many calories” and not “fat”).

Micky.

-----Original Message-----

From: Francesca Skelton

[mailto:fskelton@...]

Sent: Thursday,

September 19, 2002 4:33 AM

Subject: Re: [ ]

hypoglycemia

Thorsten: This sounds like a dangerous diet (in

fact sounds like Atkins to

me).

Low GI carbs (and high ones too) are the stuff that prevent things

like cancer

and keep things moving in your digestive tract. I beg to differ

that humans

don't need carbs. Walford talks about this kind of diet (ie

Atkins)

promoting weight loss but not being healthy.

on 9/19/2002 7:00 AM, Thorsten

Reinhardt at treinhardt@...

wrote:

> AFAIK

humans don't need necessarily carbs in their diet. It is

>

possible to rely only on fats and proteins. In such a situation your

>

metabolism switches to ketosis where ketons (?) are used as a

>

surrogate for usual carbs. I suppose that your (=one's) body can learn

> to

handle a shortage of carbs and after a while can switch smoothly to

> a state

of low blood sugar, metabolizings ketons and not feeling

> hungry.

[Guest guest]

I gotta disagree. To place the ON as anything other than a co-equal with CR is asking for trouble. Otherwise, just move to some tyrant heaven in Africa and practice forced CR.

The other danger of Atkins' diet, from what I have read, is the ketosis and damage to the kidneys. I also think his emphasis on meat/protein as the mainstay of the diet leads most people away from vegetables which should in-fact be the mainstay. The Atkins diet is a powerful weight-loss program, but dangerous nutritionally.

----- Original Message -----

From: Micky Snir

Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 12:17 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] Atkins (WAS: hypoglycemia)

IMO, what matters first is calorie restriction, and what matters third is Optimal/Adequate nutrition (and I know there are others on the list that disagrees. BTW, CR comes second as well as first :-). Thus if an Atkins-like diet helps one to maintain a calorie restricted diet, then fine. Please note that one can practice a healthy Atkins-like diet. I did. Shy away from all hydrogenated fats, from most saturated fats and from most processed foods; eat lots of high-fiber low calorie veggies; choose low-Omega-6 nuts; eat some berries once in a while etc…

That said, in order to further optimize my diet, I increased my veggie/berry intake, thus reduced my fat intake, which puts me on a Zone-like diet.

The only real danger with very-low-carb diets, is that one can easily eat too many calories from fat (the problem is “too many calories” and not “fat”).

Micky.

-----Original Message-----From: Francesca Skelton [mailto:fskelton@...] Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 4:33 AM Subject: Re: [ ] hypoglycemia

Thorsten: This sounds like a dangerous diet (in fact sounds like Atkins tome). Low GI carbs (and high ones too) are the stuff that prevent thingslike cancer and keep things moving in your digestive tract. I beg to differthat humans don't need carbs. Walford talks about this kind of diet (ieAtkins) promoting weight loss but not being healthy.on 9/19/2002 7:00 AM, Thorsten Reinhardt at treinhardt@...wrote:> AFAIK humans don't need necessarily carbs in their diet. It is> possible to rely only on fats and proteins. In such a situation your> metabolism switches to ketosis where ketons (?) are used as a> surrogate for usual carbs. I suppose that your (=one's) body can learn> to handle a shortage of carbs and after a while can switch smoothly to> a state of low blood sugar, metabolizings ketons and not feeling> hungry.

[Guest guest]

Add another who disagrees.

Joe

>

> > AFAIK humans don't need necessarily carbs in their diet. It is

> > possible to rely only on fats and proteins. In such a situation

your

> > metabolism switches to ketosis where ketons (?) are used as a

> > surrogate for usual carbs. I suppose that your (=one's) body can

learn

> > to handle a shortage of carbs and after a while can switch

smoothly to

> > a state of low blood sugar, metabolizings ketons and not feeling

> > hungry.

[Guest guest]

There’s no evidence to kidney damage

or other damage. It’s all hypothetical. There are currently long term

human experiments testing Atkins-like diets and AHA diets. We should wait for

the results, though the half-time score is Atkins:1, AHA:0.

Micky.

-----Original Message-----

From: Hipp

[mailto:@...]

Sent: Thursday,

September 19, 2002 10:41 AM

Subject: Re: [ ]

Atkins (WAS: hypoglycemia)

I gotta disagree. To place the ON as

anything other than a co-equal with CR is asking for trouble. Otherwise, just

move to some tyrant heaven in Africa and practice

forced CR.

The other danger of Atkins' diet,

from what I have read, is the ketosis and damage to the kidneys. I also think

his emphasis on meat/protein as the mainstay of the diet leads most people away

from vegetables which should in-fact be the mainstay. The Atkins diet is a

powerful weight-loss program, but dangerous nutritionally.

----- Original Message -----

From: Micky

Snir

Sent: Thursday,

September 19, 2002 12:17 PM

Subject: RE:

[ ] Atkins (WAS: hypoglycemia)

IMO, what matters first

is calorie restriction, and what matters third is Optimal/Adequate nutrition

(and I know there are others on the list that disagrees. BTW, CR comes second

as well as first :-). Thus if an Atkins-like diet helps one to maintain a

calorie restricted diet, then fine. Please note that one can practice a healthy

Atkins-like diet. I did. Shy away from all hydrogenated fats, from most

saturated fats and from most processed foods; eat lots of high-fiber low

calorie veggies; choose low-Omega-6 nuts; eat some berries once in a while

etc…

That said, in order to

further optimize my diet, I increased my veggie/berry intake, thus reduced my

fat intake, which puts me on a Zone-like diet.

The only real danger with

very-low-carb diets, is that one can easily eat too many calories from fat (the

problem is “too many calories” and not “fat”).

Micky.

-----Original Message-----

From: Francesca Skelton

[mailto:fskelton@...]

Sent: Thursday,

September 19, 2002 4:33 AM

Subject: Re: [ ]

hypoglycemia

Thorsten: This sounds like a dangerous diet (in

fact sounds like Atkins to

me).

Low GI carbs (and high ones too) are the stuff that prevent things

like cancer

and keep things moving in your digestive tract. I beg to differ

that humans

don't need carbs. Walford talks about this kind of diet (ie

Atkins)

promoting weight loss but not being healthy.

on 9/19/2002 7:00 AM, Thorsten

Reinhardt at treinhardt@...

wrote:

> AFAIK

humans don't need necessarily carbs in their diet. It is

>

possible to rely only on fats and proteins. In such a situation your

>

metabolism switches to ketosis where ketons (?) are used as a

>

surrogate for usual carbs. I suppose that your (=one's) body can learn

> to

handle a shortage of carbs and after a while can switch smoothly to

> a state

of low blood sugar, metabolizings ketons and not feeling

> hungry.

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[Guest guest]

This is not what I have read re: Atkins & kidneys. But don't have anything handy.

AHA = Am Heart Assoc??

If so, I hope Atkins beats the pants off of them and expect it will. They're the ones that would have us all eating reduced-fat sawdust.

A more useful contest would be Atkins vs. CRON.

----- Original Message -----

From: Micky Snir

Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 1:16 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] Atkins (WAS: hypoglycemia)

There’s no evidence to kidney damage or other damage. It’s all hypothetical. There are currently long term human experiments testing Atkins-like diets and AHA diets. We should wait for the results, though the half-time score is Atkins:1, AHA:0.

Micky.

[Guest guest]

CRON beats Atkins with

one arm tied behind the back… to the neck. This is obvious, because

Atkins is an ad-lib diet, and CRON beats ANY ad-lib diet. The question you

might wanna ask is which CRON diet is best. I say it’s a Zone-like diet,

by the evidence supplied and interpreted by Rae from the other list:

http://lists.calorierestriction.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0009 & L=crsociety & P=R2 & X=11E4AB7C60A1760EF1 & Y=test@...

The

problem with this link is that you need to register and get a username and

password, if you’re not already a member of CrSociety. If you want, send

me email off-list and I’ll send you the contents of MR’s albatross

(the above link points to the albatross).

Micky.

-----Original Message-----

From: Hipp

[mailto:@...]

Sent: Thursday,

September 19, 2002 2:12 PM

Subject: Re: [ ]

Atkins (WAS: hypoglycemia)

This is not what I have read re:

Atkins & kidneys. But don't have anything handy.

AHA = Am Heart Assoc??

If so, I hope Atkins beats the pants

off of them and expect it will. They're the ones that would have us all eating

reduced-fat sawdust.

A more useful contest would be

Atkins vs. CRON.

----- Original Message -----

From: Micky Snir

Sent: Thursday,

September 19, 2002 1:16 PM

Subject: RE:

[ ] Atkins (WAS: hypoglycemia)

There’s

no evidence to kidney damage or other damage. It’s all hypothetical.

There are currently long term human experiments testing Atkins-like diets and

AHA diets. We should wait for the results, though the half-time score is

Atkins:1, AHA:0.

Micky.