Weightlifting

[Guest guest]

Hello,

Someone from this board visited the discussion board at dragondoor

asking about weight training as an adjunct to the CRON lifestyle. I

have a FAQ page that might be of interest because it deals with

weight training techniques as they relate to strength gain for health

as opposed to bodybuilding for just for physical appearance.

Feel free to visit my page and drop me a line if you have any

specific questions.

Thanks,

Vic

__

The Unofficial Dragon Door FAQ - Russian strength training techniques

http://www.holtreman.net/dragondoor.htm

__

[Guest guest]

Why is the squat so important? I have just incorporated it and my quads were

so sore! What about the assisted chin ups and dips? I've got two little ones

in childcare at the gym so i have to be very succinct with my workouts and

only want about five weightlifting moves total (on top of aerobic exercise).

Right now i do the chin ups, dips and squats. Not sure what to add next. Sit

ups i suppose. I would love some advice in this area. Although i'm afraid

you're going to tell me to do pushups instead.

Elaine

> From just a pure fitness perspective you could potentially stick to

> these two exercises exclusively and be better off than 85% of the

> rest of the folks in the gym.

>

> DMM

[Guest guest]

From a perspecive of speed in and out of the gym I'd say in this

order you'd:

1)Squat

2)Deadlift

3)Chin/Pullup (If you don't have an weighted assistance machine or a

partner you could do lat pulldowns, these are horribly inferior but

unless you're training for the Olympia, they'll suffice)

4)Dips

5)Seated Rows

Elaine most likely everyone will have their own opinion

about " what's best " . Squat and deadlift are so key simply because

your capacity to generate strength in any situation begins with your

legs/hips/pelvis. In addition, training effectively is more about

nervous system stimulation than anything else and both DL and SQ

involve most if not every joint in your body. Both of these

exercises are very exciting for your neurologic circuitry.

Most folks have decent push strength in their upper body for their

size. Maybe not great but adequate. Many weight training routines

are over weighted with push type exercises ie. bench press, military

(shoulder) press, squat, push up, dip, shoulder raise, etc.... push

exercises are good to do don't get me wrong however its important

that pull work is done also. So in a pinch for time I'd rather see

you doing chins, pullups and rows over bench presses and curls.

An example of this is that guy in the gym who can bench press a car

and can squat a tour bus and still can't do more than 3 unassisted

pull ups.

There are certainly training protocols more complete than this one

however if I only had say 20 minutes max in the gym this is what I'd

spend my time doing.

I'd be being irresponsible if I didn't say, if you have never

deadlifted or squatted before GET SOMEONE TO TEACH YOU! While when

done properly these are the two very best and safest exercises in

the gym when done improperly they can be quite the opposite.

--- In , " Elaine " <itchyink@s...>

wrote:

> Why is the squat so important? I have just incorporated it and my

quads were

> so sore! What about the assisted chin ups and dips? I've got two

little ones

> in childcare at the gym so i have to be very succinct with my

workouts and

> only want about five weightlifting moves total (on top of aerobic

exercise).

> Right now i do the chin ups, dips and squats. Not sure what to add

next. Sit

> ups i suppose. I would love some advice in this area. Although i'm

afraid

> you're going to tell me to do pushups instead.

> Elaine

>

> > From just a pure fitness perspective you could potentially stick

to

> > these two exercises exclusively and be better off than 85% of the

> > rest of the folks in the gym.

> >

> > DMM

[Guest guest]

I am extremely grateful for that great advice! I have been well-trained in

the past but i'm rusty and have never learned the deadlift. I know from

experience doing squats wrong can mess you up so i will get retrained in

that. Thanks again -- i have been looking for exactly that kind of advice.

Of course if anyone has different ideas i would like to hear them too.

Elaine

> From a perspecive of speed in and out of the gym I'd say in this

> order you'd:

>

> 1)Squat

> 2)Deadlift

> 3)Chin/Pullup (If you don't have an weighted assistance machine or a

> partner you could do lat pulldowns, these are horribly inferior but

> unless you're training for the Olympia, they'll suffice)

> 4)Dips

> 5)Seated Rows

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'll second that excellent advice. Stick with big compound movements.

Make sure to get some variation and keep things interesting. Oh, and

avoid failure; it isn't necessary and it'll slow your progress.

-

> I am extremely grateful for that great advice! I have been

well-trained in

> the past but i'm rusty and have never learned the deadlift. I know from

> experience doing squats wrong can mess you up so i will get retrained in

> that. Thanks again -- i have been looking for exactly that kind of

advice.

> Of course if anyone has different ideas i would like to hear them too.

> Elaine

>

>

> > From a perspecive of speed in and out of the gym I'd say in this

> > order you'd:

> >

> > 1)Squat

> > 2)Deadlift

> > 3)Chin/Pullup (If you don't have an weighted assistance machine or a

> > partner you could do lat pulldowns, these are horribly inferior but

> > unless you're training for the Olympia, they'll suffice)

> > 4)Dips

> > 5)Seated Rows

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Actually, i was going to ask about that. I prefer not to exercise with too

much weight and to failure -- i can't risk injury and the rest of my day

requires lots of energy. I was thinking light weights and lots of reps. But

i know there is this other method of light weight and super slow movements.

Or maybe a combo on different days depending on my mood?

Elaine

> I'll second that excellent advice. Stick with big compound movements.

> Make sure to get some variation and keep things interesting. Oh, and

> avoid failure; it isn't necessary and it'll slow your progress.

>

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Elaine " <itchyink@s...>

wrote:

> Actually, i was going to ask about that. I prefer not to exercise

with too

> much weight and to failure -- i can't risk injury and the rest of

my day

> requires lots of energy. I was thinking light weights and lots of

reps. But

> i know there is this other method of light weight and super slow

movements.

> Or maybe a combo on different days depending on my mood?

> Elaine

Elaine,

Failure and heavy weights are two different issues. The heavier the

weights, the less likely you are to go to failure. For example, If I

can deadlift 260 pounds only once, and do so, I won't be able to do

260 pounds again, and the set is over. However, if I'd immediately

taken 100 pounds off, I could do many, many more reps, until my

muscles were truly exhausted to their failure point.

Using heavy, challenging weight is ESSENTIAL to good results, and

will NOT lead to injury if you are doing it correctly. If you are

worreid about injury, avoiding machines is probably the most

effective thing.

Light weight is pretty much worthless, so if you think it's fun by

all means do it, but it's not worth a gym membership in my opinion.

I also doubt superslow is very valuable, and it doesn't seem to

prevent injury by 's experience. I suspect people think it's

healthier because it's less " macho, " due to the current dominant bias

against masculinity.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Elaine there are more debates regarding speed of reps, amount of

reps, and weight loads than there are regarding religion, sex and

politics combined.

I will simply say this. My personal and professional opinion is

that these debates ONLY matter in the discussion of the high end

athlete. If you're looking to get your 40 yard dash down to 40

seconds you need to be concerned with these details. If you simply

want to be fit and strong the details for the most part are

irrelevant and actually some high end training is absolutely NOT a

good idea.

Just one example of this is the notion of doing explosive compound

movements on and unstable foundation. ie. squats on wobble boards

or standing on a ball. Gimme a break this is very high risk for

marginal reward.

If you get into the gym regularly and do the exercises mentioned

with excellent form and stay somewhere between 3 and 8 reps and make

sure your loads are progressing over time, you'll be very safe and

you'll be thrilled with the outcome. Are there potential benefits

to possibly doing super heavy loads at 1-2 reps? sure, are there

benefits to deadlifting in an explosive style? sure, are they

necessary for regular folk like you or I? No way. Not necessary

and too dangerous.

Super slow reps (20+ seconds per rep) are very good and very safe

but some folks find them boring or simply less enjoyable. Try it

you may or may not like it. Benefits will certainly be there.

Average paced reps say 8-10 secs per rep are good also and also very

safe. I'd say your reps should at the very least fall into this

area. Not so much because of huge gains you'll get but this pace is

simply a good way to insure that you're in very good control of the

load you are moving. Time under load is an important factor in

stimulating your neurology. So I'd say 8 sec reps minimum.

There's no good reason to be doing tons of reps. This is probably

the only line of thought that really goes unchallenged. Doing

really lite weights for 15,20+ reps is a waste of your time. You'll

get far better results, fun and time efficiency at weight loads that

dictate 3-8 reps or so. I'm a big fan of 1-2 sets maximum per

exercise. Again this allows for maximum safety. No need to go to a

3rd or 4th set and barely eek it out. At the same time again its

much more time efficient. Give a maximal effort without holding

back for saving energy for sets 3, 4,5 and get the heck out of the

gym. Doing this you'll find yourself much fresher post workout.

The only possible downsid is if you're not focused on those few sets

you have to do you can wind up loafing through your workout and its

over before you know it. That being said better to loaf through a

workout like this than not do it at all.

These rules are NOT hard and fast, I don't always adhere to them but

the function perfectly as the guidepost for fast effective workouts

for regular folk.

Let me know if you have more questions.

DMM

--- In , " Elaine " <itchyink@s...>

wrote:

> Actually, i was going to ask about that. I prefer not to exercise

with too

> much weight and to failure -- i can't risk injury and the rest of

my day

> requires lots of energy. I was thinking light weights and lots of

reps. But

> i know there is this other method of light weight and super slow

movements.

> Or maybe a combo on different days depending on my mood?

> Elaine

>

> > I'll second that excellent advice. Stick with big compound

movements.

> > Make sure to get some variation and keep things interesting. Oh,

and

> > avoid failure; it isn't necessary and it'll slow your progress.

> >

[Guest guest]

>I'm a big fan of 1-2 sets maximum per

> exercise. Again this allows for maximum safety. No need to go to a

> 3rd or 4th set and barely eek it out. At the same time again its

> much more time efficient.

------The idea of doing two reps per exercise really excites me. Four or

five sets per movement takes forever and gets tedious.

Give a maximal effort without holding

> back for saving energy for sets 3, 4,5 and get the heck out of the

> gym.

-------Do you mean for the various exercises: deadlift, squat, pull up, dip,

row? Not five reps per movement, right?

I can't wait to put this to action. I will report back how it goes after

getting a little training.

elaine

[Guest guest]

> -------Do you mean for the various exercises: deadlift, squat,

pull up, dip,

> row? Not five reps per movement, right?

>

3-8 reps or 1-2 sets per movement.

You could do as little as 1 set of 3reps per movement

If you choose this you'd better be very focused each time you hit

the gym to make it count. I usually don't recommend this cuz most

folks aren't that focused so I like to give them some room for error.

You could do as much as 2 sets of 8 reps per movement. Its really

your choice. If you were a world class athlete your choice would be

critical. Since you just want to be a happy healthy mere mortal.

Do what you'll enjoy the most.

DMM

[Guest guest]

, I've always done the light weights, many reps, several sets method, and

I'm definitely bored and aggravated with it. I like the idea of fewer reps,

fewer sets, but am not sure how much to go up with the weights. Is going from 3

lbs to 10 lbs too much? I'd like to jump to at least 10, this 3 lb weight crap

is driving me nuts.

I'm glad this came up. I did work with a trainer but I think because I had a

back injury she was being too conservative with me, or perhaps she just has a

different approach. But I'm just bored out of my mind. My results have been

pretty good, so it's just a matter of boredom.

Thanks!

Christie

[Guest guest]

>>>>, I've always done the light weights, many reps, several sets

method, and I'm definitely bored and aggravated with it. I like the idea of

fewer reps, fewer sets, but am not sure how much to go up with the weights.

Is going from 3 lbs to 10 lbs too much? I'd like to jump to at least 10,

this 3 lb weight crap is driving me nuts.

---->christie, my friend who's been into weight lifting for many years and

owns the gym i go to, told me that women often do more reps/sets with lower

weights which is good for toning, while men tend to do heavier weights/fewer

sets which is good for bulking up. i don't know if this is true, but

apparently that's her experience. my personal trainer has me doing 3-4 sets

of 12-15 reps for each exercise. i might move to heavier weights/fewer

reps/sets for some exercises though...haven't decided yet. but i do push

myself close to my limit even with this number of reps/sets, and am often

sore for a few days afterwards. i didn't used to get sore until i started

this program with my personal trainer so i do think it's more effective than

the lighter weights/more sets i was doing before, fwiw.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Quoting Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...>:

> ---->christie, my friend who's been into weight lifting for many years

> and

> owns the gym i go to, told me that women often do more reps/sets with

> lower

> weights which is good for toning, while men tend to do heavier

> weights/fewer

> sets which is good for bulking up. i don't know if this is true...

It's true that that's what people do, but women do not " bulk up " without a

severe hormonal imbalance (usually artificial), no matter how much they

lift. I also question the notion that lifting three-pound weights is

superior to lifting heavier weights with respect to toning, and it's

definitely inferior with respect to building functional strength.

> i didn't used to get sore until i started

> this program with my personal trainer so i do think it's more effective

> than the lighter weights/more sets i was doing before, fwiw.

How long have you been with the new program? Soreness is common when using

muscles in ways in which they are unaccustomed to being used, but it

usually stops after a week or three and is a poor indication of

effectiveness.

--

Berg

bberg@...

[Guest guest]

>> my personal trainer has me doing 3-4 sets

of 12-15 reps for each exercise. i might move to heavier weights/fewer

reps/sets for some exercises though...haven't decided yet. but i do push

myself close to my limit even with this number of reps/sets, and am often

sore for a few days afterwards. i didn't used to get sore until i started

this program with my personal trainer so i do think it's more effective than

the lighter weights/more sets i was doing before, fwiw. <<

That's exactly what I'm doing, but I no longer even feel it. I was just going to

go to 5 lbs but now I was thinking of jumping up to 10 and doing fewer

reps/sets. I want muscle - for its fat burning effect. I have a long way to go

before " toning " is an issue for me. <G>

Christie

[Guest guest]

Suze and Christie,

" Tone, " from what I've read is a temporary state characterized by a partial

contraction of the muscle induced by a recent exercise. It doesn't seem it

would have much health or functional value.

Chris

In a message dated 10/27/03 10:49:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> ---->christie, my friend who's been into weight lifting for many years and

> owns the gym i go to, told me that women often do more reps/sets with lower

> weights which is good for toning, while men tend to do heavier weights/fewer

> sets which is good for bulking up. i don't know if this is true, but

> apparently that's her experience. my personal trainer has me doing 3-4 sets

> of 12-15 reps for each exercise. i might move to heavier weights/fewer

> reps/sets for some exercises though...haven't decided yet. but i do push

> myself close to my limit even with this number of reps/sets, and am often

> sore for a few days afterwards. i didn't used to get sore until i started

> this program with my personal trainer so i do think it's more effective than

> the lighter weights/more sets i was doing before, fwiw.

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

[Guest guest]

There is no inherent " unsafe " amount to increase your weights.

Sure you can increase to 10,20, even 50 pounds if you want.

Your answer as far as safety goes will be answered by the question,

can you control the weight slowly without needing to herk and jerk

it. Movements should be smooth and focused.

Keep in mind its all about progression and little abou the raw

weight. As long as time is passing and your weights are increasing

over that time you'll do great. No need to rush things. If you are

unsure how much to raise the weight then simply increase 5 pounds

each workout until you arrive at a weight that feels like the

heaviest challenge that you can easily control.

DMM

> , I've always done the light weights, many reps, several

sets method, and I'm definitely bored and aggravated with it. I like

the idea of fewer reps, fewer sets, but am not sure how much to go

up with the weights. Is going from 3 lbs to 10 lbs too much? I'd

like to jump to at least 10, this 3 lb weight crap is driving me

nuts.

>

> I'm glad this came up. I did work with a trainer but I think

because I had a back injury she was being too conservative with me,

or perhaps she just has a different approach. But I'm just bored out

of my mind. My results have been pretty good, so it's just a matter

of boredom.

>

> Thanks!

>

> Christie

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> ---->christie, my friend who's been into weight lifting for many

years and

> owns the gym i go to, told me that women often do more reps/sets

with lower

> weights which is good for toning, while men tend to do heavier

weights/fewer

> sets which is good for bulking up.

==================Hi Suze not to knock your friend but this is both

true and false. Its true in that men and women do " believe " they do

this for said reasons however it is completely false. " Toning " is a

complete and total misnomer. The musculature is either getting

stronger and in turn somewhat bigger, tighter and more toned or its

not. NOBODY can get very large muscularly without trying very very

hard to do it. No woman could ever go to a gym and accidentally

walk out looking like a body builder. Its something she'd have to

do on purpose and just heavy weights would NOT do it.

DMM

i don't know if this is true, but

> apparently that's her experience. my personal trainer has me doing

3-4 sets

> of 12-15 reps for each exercise. i might move to heavier

weights/fewer

> reps/sets for some exercises though...haven't decided yet. but i

do push

> myself close to my limit even with this number of reps/sets, and

am often

> sore for a few days afterwards. i didn't used to get sore until i

started

> this program with my personal trainer so i do think it's more

effective than

> the lighter weights/more sets i was doing before, fwiw.

>

>

>

> Suze Fisher

> Lapdog Design, Inc.

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

> Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

> http://www.westonaprice.org

>

> ----------------------------

> " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol

cause

> heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our

times. " --

> Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at

Vanderbilt

> University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

>

> The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

> <http://www.thincs.org>

> ----------------------------

[Guest guest]

> i didn't used to get sore until i started

> this program with my personal trainer so i do think it's more effective

> than the lighter weights/more sets i was doing before, fwiw.

>>>>How long have you been with the new program? Soreness is common when

using

muscles in ways in which they are unaccustomed to being used, but it

usually stops after a week or three and is a poor indication of

effectiveness.

----->3 or 4 weeks. why is soreness a poor indication of effectiveness? i

can feel that i'm clearly pushing my muscles beyond what i was doing before.

and i'm capable of lifting more than i was before, as well. that's a sign of

effectiveness, at least in increased strength...

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

>> i didn't used to get sore until i started

this program with my personal trainer so i do think it's more effective than

the lighter weights/more sets i was doing before, fwiw. <<

---->correction...i wasn't doing *more* sets previously, IIRC. but defintely

lower weights.

>>>That's exactly what I'm doing, but I no longer even feel it. I was just

going to go to 5 lbs but now I was thinking of jumping up to 10 and doing

fewer reps/sets. I want muscle - for its fat burning effect. I have a long

way to go before " toning " is an issue for me. <G>

----->if you don't feel it then by all means increase your weight! i REALLY

feel it every excercise i do. not that it's a lot of weight, i'm only

benching 65 lbs, but only started it about 3 weeks ago and am working my way

up. i can't remember what i'm squatting on the smith machine...i was doing

around 115 til i took the cables off, and am doing a bit less as it's much

more challenging (and more weight) without the cables, but boy do i *feel*

it!

i think i may try heavier weight/fewer reps on some of these as i mentioned.

for some reason i think my arms *look* much stronger than they actually are,

perhaps from a year of just working on machines instead of free weights? i

was told i am strong because i can do (6) pull-ups, which a lot of women

apparently can't do, but i'm not sure how good a measure of strength that

is.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

>>> " Tone, " from what I've read is a temporary state characterized by a

partial

contraction of the muscle induced by a recent exercise. It doesn't seem it

would have much health or functional value.

----->i hope i remembered the wording she used correctly, but i may not

have. but i think she was referring more to body sculpting than any

temporary state of muscle contraction. i will ask her next time i see her.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Soreness should definitely not be one of your goals after a

weightlifing session. It'll slow your progress and allow you to train

less often. Contray to popular belief, you can make progress and not

be sore, and this is an optimal state of affairs.

-

> > i didn't used to get sore until i started

> > this program with my personal trainer so i do think it's more

effective

> > than the lighter weights/more sets i was doing before, fwiw.

>

> >>>>How long have you been with the new program? Soreness is common when

> using

> muscles in ways in which they are unaccustomed to being used, but it

> usually stops after a week or three and is a poor indication of

> effectiveness.

>

> ----->3 or 4 weeks. why is soreness a poor indication of

effectiveness? i

> can feel that i'm clearly pushing my muscles beyond what i was doing

before.

> and i'm capable of lifting more than i was before, as well. that's a

sign of

> effectiveness, at least in increased strength...

>

> Suze Fisher

> Lapdog Design, Inc.

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

> Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

> http://www.westonaprice.org

>

> ----------------------------

> " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

> heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. "

--

> Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

> University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

>

> The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

> <http://www.thincs.org>

> ----------------------------

[Guest guest]

>>>>Soreness should definitely not be one of your goals after a

weightlifing session. It'll slow your progress and allow you to train

less often. Contray to popular belief, you can make progress and not

be sore, and this is an optimal state of affairs.

----->paul, soreness is not a *goal*, but rather a *result* of my more

intense training. it hasn't slowed my progression because i'm doing most of

my exercises ONCE a week. by the time i work a new muscle group, it's not

sore any more. i'm temporarily increasing frequency of some areas, but

generally do most exercises once per week.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Suze you'd be less sore with heavier weights and less reps

there's just no good physiologic reason to go high into reps.

And the heavier weights will NOT " bulk " you up.

And for those interested it will take less time also.

DMM

> >>>>Soreness should definitely not be one of your goals after a

> weightlifing session. It'll slow your progress and allow you to

train

> less often. Contray to popular belief, you can make progress and not

> be sore, and this is an optimal state of affairs.

>

> ----->paul, soreness is not a *goal*, but rather a *result* of my

more

> intense training. it hasn't slowed my progression because i'm doing

most of

> my exercises ONCE a week. by the time i work a new muscle group,

it's not

> sore any more. i'm temporarily increasing frequency of some areas,

but

> generally do most exercises once per week.

>

> Suze Fisher

> Lapdog Design, Inc.

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

> Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

> http://www.westonaprice.org

>

> ----------------------------

> " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol

cause

> heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " -

-

> Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at

Vanderbilt

> University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

>

> The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

> <http://www.thincs.org>

> ----------------------------

[Guest guest]

>>>Suze you'd be less sore with heavier weights and less reps

there's just no good physiologic reason to go high into reps.

And the heavier weights will NOT " bulk " you up.

----->well, there is ONE good physiological reason (LOL)..i have a bum knee

and my personal trainer didn't want me to hurt my knee. i had to stop lunges

for that reason - to much stress on my knee, and a couple of times heavy

weights have hurt it. so if i keep my weights low enough, it doesn't

aggravate my knee. but for exercises that don't involve my knees, there is

probably no good reason to do high reps, which is one reason i'd like to cut

down to fewer with heavier weights on some of my exercises.

i had actually forgotten to mention that that was one of the reasons he had

me doing relatively lower weights/high reps.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

Actually injury is a #1 reason NOT to do high reps.

I obviously can't speak for your personal experience however

heavy weight on a weak joint is a great way to recover proper function

as a general rule. These type joints (obviously there are exceptions

to this rule) most commonly respond very well to 1-2 reps under a

slow moving moderate to heavy load. Load being dictated by joint

tolerance.

For someone with a bad knee lunges would be ill advised regardless of

reps or load simply because of the abberent position of the knee in

said exercise. Squat is far more natural and normal a movement and

in turn is much better for hurt knees, hips, ankles, etc...

With any injury you need to tread cautiously as you move forward.

When I say heavy weights low reps I really should say heavIER weights

and low reps. The load would simply be dictated by your knees

tolerance and cooperation. Some knee troubles will need to go with

the leg extension and curl for a couple months prior to squatting if

the problem refuses to not flare up under moderate squat loads. This

is uncommon but does happen on occasion. Under those circumstances

the same rules apply. Maximal weight to tolerance and minimal reps.

If the neurology of the knee is not loaded and stimulated it will

remain a " bum knee. "

DMM

> >>>Suze you'd be less sore with heavier weights and less reps

> there's just no good physiologic reason to go high into reps.

> And the heavier weights will NOT " bulk " you up.

>

> ----->well, there is ONE good physiological reason (LOL)..i have a

bum knee

> and my personal trainer didn't want me to hurt my knee. i had to

stop lunges

> for that reason - to much stress on my knee, and a couple of times

heavy

> weights have hurt it. so if i keep my weights low enough, it doesn't

> aggravate my knee. but for exercises that don't involve my knees,

there is

> probably no good reason to do high reps, which is one reason i'd

like to cut

> down to fewer with heavier weights on some of my exercises.

>

> i had actually forgotten to mention that that was one of the

reasons he had

> me doing relatively lower weights/high reps.

>

>

>

> Suze Fisher

> Lapdog Design, Inc.

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

> Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

> http://www.westonaprice.org

>

> ----------------------------

> " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol

cause

> heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " -

-

> Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at

Vanderbilt

> University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

>

> The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

> <http://www.thincs.org>

> ----------------------------