Guest guest Posted September 25, 2002 Report Share Posted September 25, 2002 > Their website says it will soon be available in a sucralose > sweetened version, which I'll try when it is available, > particularly to knock the calorie count down from what > I'm currently doing. Have you ever seen Dr Mercola's page on Sucralose? http://www.mercola.com/2000/dec/3/sucralose_dangers.htm Or Mark Gold's Sucralose page? http://www.holisticmed.com/splenda/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 ----- Original Message ----- From: oc9 Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 9:10 AM Yes, I know there is some CRON controversy over soy consumption. I'm not addressing that here.For those who wish to consume it, there is a soy protein powder that is being promoted (disclaimer - I have no affiliation with the company) largely for post-menopausal women, but which is just basically a soy protein isolate. The potential downside of some soy products comes from the phytoestrogen compounds they contain, which may act as thyroid inhibitors, and their association with dementia when used over a long period of time. Consuming soy concentrate, rather than soy isolate, is a way to avoid this potential problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Please elaborate on the difference between soy concentrate and soy isolate. It appears to me (brief web lookup) that the isolate is a subset of the concentrate, so I don't understand why the concentrate would be better. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: oc9 > Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 9:10 AM > > Yes, I know there is some CRON controversy over soy consumption. I'm > not addressing that here. > > For those who wish to consume it, there is a soy protein powder that > is being promoted (disclaimer - I have no affiliation with the > company) largely for post-menopausal women, but which is just > basically a soy protein isolate. > > The potential downside of some soy products comes from the phytoestrogen compounds they contain, which may act as thyroid inhibitors, and their association with dementia when used over a long period of time. > > Consuming soy concentrate, rather than soy isolate, is a way to avoid this potential problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Check with the manufacturer or distributor. LEFs website claims that their "Soy Protein Concentrate is not a potent source of isoflavones". http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00286.html VRPs tech rep told me that their Soy Protein Powder (#546.0) contains "only trace amounts of isoflavones". http://www.vrp.com/ I believe that soy meat products are likewise low in isoflavones. ----- Original Message ----- From: oc9 Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 7:47 AM Subject: [ ] Re: Soy protein Please elaborate on the difference between soy concentrate and soy isolate. It appears to me (brief web lookup) that the isolate is a subset of the concentrate, so I don't understand why the concentrate would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 The LEF product says " One to two tablespoons daily are suggested as a protein supplement. Four to five tablespoons daily are needed to obtain adequate amounts of isoflavones. " which says to me it has isoflavones, just not at a high level. The VRP product may have the issue. The LEF page says the product has genistein, which is an isoflavone. http://www.ag.uiuc.edu/~food-lab/soy/soyconc/sld001.htm seems to say that the isolate is the concentrate minus the carbohydrate content, which reduces the beany flavor, and should reduce the calorie content. This would also raise the % concentration of the other components which are not removed. -- In @y..., " Tom Kobzina " <tkobzina@m...> wrote: > Check with the manufacturer or distributor. > > LEFs website claims that their " Soy Protein Concentrate is not a potent source of isoflavones " . > > http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00286.html > > VRPs tech rep told me that their Soy Protein Powder (#546.0) contains " only trace amounts of isoflavones " . > > http://www.vrp.com/ > > I believe that soy meat products are likewise low in isoflavones. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: oc9 > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 7:47 AM > @y... > Subject: [ ] Re: Soy protein > > Please elaborate on the difference between soy concentrate and soy > isolate. It appears to me (brief web lookup) that the isolate is a > subset of the concentrate, so I don't understand why the concentrate > would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Pardon my ignorance Iris and Tom: but I thought Soy Isoflavones were beneficial especially for menopausal women looking for a substitute for HRT. At least that's what many of us were led to believe. Now Tom is saying they're bad.......(?) on 9/26/2002 1:25 PM, oc9 at crsupport@... wrote: > The LEF product says > " One to two tablespoons daily are suggested as a protein supplement. > Four to five tablespoons daily are needed to obtain adequate amounts > of isoflavones. " > > which says to me it has isoflavones, just not at a high level. The > VRP product may have the issue. The LEF page says the product has > genistein, which is an isoflavone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 That's part of the issue, if soy can mimic hormones, that won't be beneficial to folk who don't want/need them. JR -----Original Message-----From: Francesca Skelton [mailto:fskelton@...]Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Soy proteinPardon my ignorance Iris and Tom: but I thought Soy Isoflavones werebeneficial especially for menopausal women looking for a substitute for HRT.At least that's what many of us were led to believe. Now Tom is sayingthey're bad.......(?)on 9/26/2002 1:25 PM, oc9 at crsupport@... wrote:> The LEF product says> "One to two tablespoons daily are suggested as a protein supplement.> Four to five tablespoons daily are needed to obtain adequate amounts> of isoflavones. "> > which says to me it has isoflavones, just not at a high level. The> VRP product may have the issue. The LEF page says the product has> genistein, which is an isoflavone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 There is one (1) published report that with a very small sample (large-ish total sample, but small for this subset) implied a link between 'brain atrophy' and 'midlife tofu consumption'. For more details see this page and the links on it http://www.soybean.com/assault1.htm and http://web.aces.uiuc.edu/faq/faq.pdl?project_id=5 & faq_id=771 While I'm not a consipiracy theorist, if you can paint one for the artifical sweetener manufacturers concealing issues with their product, I can believe the beef and chicken producers would be happy to see soy discredited for humans - it would increase their market and at the same time reduce their raw feed material costs. Let's also remember that the best CRON diet includes a VARIETY of foods. Iris > > > The LEF product says > > " One to two tablespoons daily are suggested as a protein supplement. > > Four to five tablespoons daily are needed to obtain adequate amounts > > of isoflavones. " > > > > which says to me it has isoflavones, just not at a high level. The > > VRP product may have the issue. The LEF page says the product has > > genistein, which is an isoflavone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 > While I'm not a consipiracy theorist, if you can paint one for the > artifical sweetener manufacturers concealing issues with their > product, I can believe the beef and chicken producers would > be happy to see soy discredited for humans - it would increase > their market and at the same time reduce their raw feed > material costs. No doubt. However soy itself is also big business. It might be most prudent not to believe all you hear from either side. It's not /just/ beef and chicken producers with the soy warnings. ....unless you think http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/ has turned into their pawn, that is. http://www.soybean.com/faq416.htm presents some of the other side of the argument. It's not difficult to eat a rather a lot of processed soy compounds these days. I see that as unnatural, insufficiently well studied - and with some clear associated warning signs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Instead of being suspicious of almost everything that goes into my mouth and believing everything one reads/hears on the web, my motto is to go with the opinions of the experts. I haven't heard one bad word from Walford, Ornish, Sears, Weil or any other prominent figure in the field of nutrition saying " don't eat soy " . (Of course Walford mentions the one study of soy and dementia but at the same time he wrote that he was still eating soy in moderation). If they don't buy the hype, neither do I. on 9/26/2002 4:23 PM, Tim Tyler at tt2333@... wrote: > No doubt. However soy itself is also big business. It might be > most prudent not to believe all you hear from either side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 It depends on what you want from a protein. Soy has a lot of health benefits. It reportedly reduces the symptoms of menopause. For the purpose of building muscle it is not as high quality as whey, eggs, animal derived or other milk proteins because it is considered " estrogenic. " Most all MRP shakes and bars contain some soy but it's better if soy isn't the main ingredient. One good advantage to soy is that it is inexpensive. Stasia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 There was a study years ago, and I will endeavor to find it, and body builders have known for years, that soy protein increases estrogen in men, or decreases testosterone, or both. Can't remember for sure. Some doctors recommend soy protein supplements for their prostate cancer patients as the tumors grow slower with higher estrogen levels. As for suppliments, I can't eat enough food, of the wrong or right types, to satisfy my nutritional requirements, according to the blood tests, to keep me out of the definciency mode of operation. The principal of eating several meals a day doesn't work very well for my schedule at all, as in almost impossible. There were a few assignments in the military where I was losing weight on an intake of well over 4000 calories a day. Often, food intake was only once, and sometimes twice per day. The standard meal was 3000 calories each. While it is almost impossible for me to follow a strict CRON lifestyle, the information that is available here is very helpful in reducing the negative effects of my work environment and that same lifestyle. Regards, Don White - still at work and thanking the list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 There was a study years ago, and I will endeavor to find it, and body builders have known for years, that soy protein increases estrogen in men, or decreases testosterone, or both. Can't remember for sure. Some doctors recommend soy protein supplements for their prostate cancer patients as the tumors grow slower with higher estrogen levels. As for suppliments, I can't eat enough food, of the wrong or right types, to satisfy my nutritional requirements, according to the blood tests, to keep me out of the definciency mode of operation. The principal of eating several meals a day doesn't work very well for my schedule at all, as in almost impossible. There were a few assignments in the military where I was losing weight on an intake of well over 4000 calories a day. Often, food intake was only once, and sometimes twice per day. The standard meal was 3000 calories each. While it is almost impossible for me to follow a strict CRON lifestyle, the information that is available here is very helpful in reducing the negative effects of my work environment and that same lifestyle. Regards, Don White - still at work and thanking the list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 >>>There was a study years ago, and I will endeavor to find it, and body builders have known for years, that soy protein increases estrogen in men, or decreases testosterone, or both. Can't remember for sure. Some doctors recommend soy protein supplements for their prostate cancer patients as the tumors grow slower with higher estrogen levels. The effects, at best, are limited. Jeff Nutr Cancer. 2005;51(1):1-6. Hormonal response to diets high in soy or animal protein without and with isoflavones in moderately hypercholesterolemic subjects. Goldin BR, Brauner E, Adlercreutz H, Ausman LM, Lichtenstein AH. Department of Family Medicine and Community Medicine, Tufts University School of Medicine, Boston, MA 02111, USA. Consumption of soy protein has been associated with altered risk of developing endocrine-regulated cancers. This study was designed to assess the independent effect of soy relative to animal protein and soy-derived isoflavones on circulating estrogen and androgen concentrations in postmenopausal women and older men. Forty-two subjects (> 50 yr) with low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels of > or = 3.36 mmol/l were fed each of 4 diets in randomized order for 6 wk/phase. All food and drink were provided. Diets contained 25 g soy or common sources of animal protein/4.2 MJ containing trace or 50 mg isoflavones/4.2 MJ. At the end of each diet phase, concentrations of estrone sulfate, estrone, estradiol, testosterone, androstendione, dihydrotestosterone, dehydroepiandrosterone, and dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate were measured. In postmenopausal women, concentrations of estrone were higher and its precursor, dehydroepiandrosterone, lower after consuming the soy compared with animal protein diets (P = 0.0396 and 0.0374, respectively). There was no significant effect of isoflavones on any of the hormones measured. In older men, dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate concentrations were lower after consuming the isoflavone (P = 0.0106) and higher after soy, compared with the animal protein diets (P = 0.0118). These data suggest that relatively large amounts of soy protein or soy-derived isoflavones had modest and limited sex-specific effects on circulating hormone levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 >>>There was a study years ago, and I will endeavor to find it, and body builders have known for years, that soy protein increases estrogen in men, or decreases testosterone, or both. Can't remember for sure. Some doctors recommend soy protein supplements for their prostate cancer patients as the tumors grow slower with higher estrogen levels. The effects, at best, are limited. Jeff Nutr Cancer. 2005;51(1):1-6. Hormonal response to diets high in soy or animal protein without and with isoflavones in moderately hypercholesterolemic subjects. Goldin BR, Brauner E, Adlercreutz H, Ausman LM, Lichtenstein AH. Department of Family Medicine and Community Medicine, Tufts University School of Medicine, Boston, MA 02111, USA. Consumption of soy protein has been associated with altered risk of developing endocrine-regulated cancers. This study was designed to assess the independent effect of soy relative to animal protein and soy-derived isoflavones on circulating estrogen and androgen concentrations in postmenopausal women and older men. Forty-two subjects (> 50 yr) with low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels of > or = 3.36 mmol/l were fed each of 4 diets in randomized order for 6 wk/phase. All food and drink were provided. Diets contained 25 g soy or common sources of animal protein/4.2 MJ containing trace or 50 mg isoflavones/4.2 MJ. At the end of each diet phase, concentrations of estrone sulfate, estrone, estradiol, testosterone, androstendione, dihydrotestosterone, dehydroepiandrosterone, and dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate were measured. In postmenopausal women, concentrations of estrone were higher and its precursor, dehydroepiandrosterone, lower after consuming the soy compared with animal protein diets (P = 0.0396 and 0.0374, respectively). There was no significant effect of isoflavones on any of the hormones measured. In older men, dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate concentrations were lower after consuming the isoflavone (P = 0.0106) and higher after soy, compared with the animal protein diets (P = 0.0118). These data suggest that relatively large amounts of soy protein or soy-derived isoflavones had modest and limited sex-specific effects on circulating hormone levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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