Re: Re: Extreme CR problems (was: CR, hormesis and moderation) Zinc and Testosterone

[Guest guest]

I've noticed that it is difficult to get enough Zinc when following the CR

diet (at least for what I choose to eat). There is a big link between Zinc

and testosterone levels. I've even read articles that Zinc supplementation

can increase testosterone levels to that comparable to low dose anabolic

steroids. I don't know if this is actually the case, but as I've began to

supplement Zinc, I've gain significant weight (Ouch!!!), but have lost a

significant amount of fat (Hurray!!!). Oh yeh, and my own testosterone

levels have significantly increased.

I'm not into body building, and started taking Zinc because I noticed over

an extended period of time I was low in this nutrient. I wasn't planning

for these physiological changes, but they seem to just pop up, and were

abrupt enough that I took notice. The only other supplement I've ever

taken that has as abrupt a change was Lipoic Acid. More energy!!!!

Just general input. Hope it helps someone.

A.

" joesmad2001 "

<fernaj@rockefell

er.edu> cc:

Subject: [ ] Re:

Extreme CR problems (was: CR, hormesis and moderation)

08/28/2002 01:44

PM

Please respond to

Micky,

I must admit I noticed a rather close resemblence to an organized

religion on the CR lists, especially when people quote the 120 year

diet book word for word (I seam to recall a big debate about time to

lose weight a few monthes ago). I also like the comment about

obtaining great rewards at the end of the journey. One difference

though is that religion is based strictly on faith while the

information in Walfords books are based on a small leap of faith

after a large amount of evidence. While the human evidence is weaker

than rat data regarding CR and life extension, I think we can safely

say that CR would prolong life in humans. Let's not forget the other

encouraging evidence from Rhesus monkeys and I believe here was a

study lengthening canine life through calories restricion.

My interest in the 120 year diet is the ON part, life extension is

great if it works but the ON will unarguably improve the quality of

what life you have. The Walford book was a great compilation and

summary of basically " excellent eating habits " which I have read in

many other places and was happy to find summarized in one place. The

diet is alot common sense, reagrdless if you limit the calories

although I do find it difficult to overload calories when eating so

much good food.

Just my 2 cents.

Jpe

> While I'm on a roll, I'd like to share with you some more CR

thoughts.

> Both as an observer and as a practitioner, I notice some worrying

> " religious " like symptoms regarding practice of CR. (please, no

offense

> for religious people, but it seems to me so easier to explain it in

> these terms. CR and religion also have good sides, obviously).

>

> CR requires most of us a substantial (very) life-long sacrifice,

with

> " promised " benefits (how's the analogy so far?). From this derives

many

> benefits and dangers. I'll focus on some of the dangers.

>

> God and the bible. From reading the archives it seems that the " good

> book " is now named " (beyond) The 120 Year Diet " . The " W " name is

used

> and the good book is being quoted for answers to questions on this

and

> the other list as if the answers came from God. Well I'm sorry, " W "

is a

> great name, but mostly for telling us the CR may extend life. Mostly

> rats' life. He has no credentials for telling us what's the best

_HUMAN_

> CR strategy. His recommendations are based on very weak evidence.

Hold

> your horses! Don't throw your stones at me, yet; keep reading. _My_

> bible starts and ends in Chapter 1, section " The Nature of

Evidence " in

> " W " 's book: " beyond the 120 Year Diet " . I suggest everyone read it

again

> (and again and again!), but I'll quote the beginning and the end of

the

> chapter for you. The chapter start with these words: " If you get

nothing

> out of this book except what I say in this section, you're way

ahead. "

> The chapter ends with these words: " I hope you will look just as

> critically at all the evidence in this book. That's your first step

> toward a super-healthy and extended life. "

> Well I read the good book, and I looked critically at all the

evidence,

> and I found that most of " W " 's recommendations for _HUMAN_ CR to be

> based on rather weak evidence. I suggest you re-read the book after

> understanding my bible.

>

> Of priests, rabbi's, imam's etc.

> Life is too complicated. It's so good to have someone to tell us

what to

> do; what's best for us. Well I'm no different in this respect. I

might

> be different in the fact that I keep doubting my Rabbi and my God; I

> keep asking myself whether they have hidden motives, private

agendas or

> simply a different set of priorities than mine. Or they might just

be

> down right wrong! That said, here are my Rabbis: Rae from

the

> " main " list, and Wakfer (Tom s) from www.morelife.org.

An

> example of doubting my Rabbi would be Wakfer: he is in his

sixties;

> I'm in my thirties. Thus his life-extension priorities are likely

to be

> more risk oriented than mine. I don't doubt that he's doing the

best for

> himself, but I doubt whether it's best for _ME_.

>

> CR is tough. When you do something tough, especially if you plan to

do

> it for the rest of your life, you are easily drawn into a fanatic

> mentality. I mean, how else can you cope with a life long

deprivation of

> food??? So beware of the fanatic mentality because it may blind you;

> question your ways and keep an open mind.

>

> Micky.

>

> P.S: I don't mind is someone will forward this email to the main

list.

>

>

> Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 12:58:41 -0400

> From: Francesca Skelton <fskelton@e...>

> Subject: Re: Extreme CR problems (was: CR, hormesis and moderation)

>

> Dave: AFA I know, the problems reported are not chronicled in any

one

> place.

> Some of the more " extremist " practitioners have reported:

>

> osteopenia and outright osteoporosis,

> low testosterone levels (meaning virtually no sex life),

> anemia,

> edema as reported today by crdude,

> irritability and crankiness,

> foggy memory and thinking

> <snip>