Re: Extreme CRON/Okinawa/The Devils Advocate

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Micky,

You will have to excuse me: I like playing devil's advocate.. There have been so many recent posts about extreme CRON that I just wanted to throw a tidbit out to speak from the "other side of the fence." (Please note: I have nothing against anyone who has the discipline to do their best to maximize their lifespan through CRON - in fact I respect that discipline a lot).

My general point was this: CRON does not have to be practiced to the extreme to have good health and a long life. Mild CRON (like the Okinawans) can produce positive longevity and health effects.

Okinawans are smaller - genetically and (I assume) due to the CRON effect. My wife says that our relatives of our generation in Hawaii are the same size but their legs are different (due to the different posture in sitting - no tatami rooms generally).

She does says that the Okinawans of my parents generation are smaller than the young people of today due to the lack of food because of the war AND due to people just generally eating less. It will be interesting to see the longevity differences between the older and younger generations here.

I agree with you that all the other factors of the Okinawan lifestyle help with longevity.

Francesca,

Yup - even the taller Okinawans here of the older generation do not look skeletal.

Then again - to be fair and compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges - Okinawans do not practice extreme CRON. If they did they would probably be in the 120 and over range for lifespan(assuming the rat studies correlate to human etc etc)

Yes the younger generation is getting western type diseases (from all the western type food no doubt). According to my mother here the younger generation will not live as long.

Joe,

I haven't a clue what the average BMI is here. (Sorry!) Good question though!

Ed

Message: 7Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:27:23 -0700From: "Micky Snir" Subject: RE: Re: Extreme CRON/OkinawaWhile I devour every word Ed writes, being our resident Okinawan, I wantto diffuse some of the excitement: Okinawans are small because theydon't eat much as kids. This allows them to be non-skeletal on arelatively low-calorie diet as adults (Are you surrounded by _small_people, Ed?). Does this mean we're going to hold off some of our kids'food? (the answer is yes if you value mostly the _length_ of your kids'life, putting quality aside and other philosophical "things").I believe Okinawans live long not only because of their good diet. Ibelieve life style has much to do with it, notably the relaxedatmosphere and the respect elders get, but not only. The book "TheOkinawa Program" is a great read IMO.Micky.-----Original Message-----From: Eddie [mailto:vlad_storm@...] Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 7:30 PM Subject: [ ] Re: Extreme CRON/OkinawaHi all,With all this talk about extreme CRON I'd just like to add something..I live on Okinawa.Okinawans live a long time in good health.I am not surrounded by skeletal looking people.Something to think about.Ed [This message contained attachments]________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Message: 8Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:50:25 -0400From: Francesca Skelton Subject: Re: Re: Extreme CRON/OkinawaMicky: I took Ed's post to mean that the Okinawans are not as thin as someof the XCronies. IOW, they may be of small stature as you rightly pointout, but not skeletons (correct me if I'm wrong, Ed)I agree that the non-diet factors you mention are important to a long andhealthy life. In fact, Dean Ornish recommends meditation, yoga etc in hisprograms. But diet may be the main factor . Ed has related (as have others)that now that western diet evils are creeping in, Okies are starting to getsome of the same illnesses as the rest of humanity (again Ed, pls correct meif I'm wrong). > on 8/30/2002 12:27 PM, Micky Snir at mickys@... wrote:> While I devour every word Ed writes, being our resident Okinawan, I want> to diffuse some of the excitement: Okinawans are small because they> don't eat much as kids. This allows them to be non-skeletal on a> relatively low-calorie diet as adults (Are you surrounded by _small_> people, Ed?). Does this mean we're going to hold off some of our kids'> food? (the answer is yes if you value mostly the _length_ of your kids'> life, putting quality aside and other philosophical "things").> > > > I believe Okinawans live long not only because of their good diet. I> believe life style has much to do with it, notably the relaxed> atmosphere and the respect elders get, but not only. The book "The> Okinawa Program" is a great read IMO.> > > > Micky.> > > > -----Original Message-----> From: Eddie [mailto:vlad_storm@...]> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 7:30 PM> > Subject: [ ] Re: Extreme CRON/Okinawa> > > > Hi all,> > With all this talk about extreme CRON I'd just like to add something..> > I live on Okinawa.> > Okinawans live a long time in good health.> > I am not surrounded by skeletal looking people.> > Something to think about.> > Ed > > ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Message: 9Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:14:50 -0000From: "joesmad2001" Subject: Re: Extreme CRON/OkinawaPerhaps a better question for the Okinawan issue is "What is there average BMI" which should eliminate height as an issue. Remeber the issue is reducing calries, not really weight or height. I think the Rhesus monkey started some adult monkeys as well as juvenille monkeys on the CRON program. Joe> > > While I devour every word Ed writes, being our resident Okinawan, I want> > to diffuse some of the excitement: Okinawans are small because they> > don't eat much as kids. This allows them to be non-skeletal on a> > relatively low-calorie diet as adults (Are you surrounded by _small_> > people, Ed?). Does this mean we're going to hold off some of our kids'> > food? (the answer is yes if you value mostly the _length_ of your kids'> > life, putting quality aside and other philosophical "things").> > > > > > > > I believe Okinawans live long not only because of their good diet. I> > believe life style has much to do with it, notably the relaxed> > atmosphere and the respect elders get, but not only. The book "The> > Okinawa Program" is a great read IMO.> > > > > > > > Micky.> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----> > From: Eddie [mailto:vlad_storm@y...]> > Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 7:30 PM> > @y...> > Subject: [ ] Re: Extreme CRON/Okinawa=== message truncated ===