Guest guest Posted September 8, 2002 Report Share Posted September 8, 2002 I concur with Joanne's confusion regarding calcium supplementation. I include nonfat kefir and yogurt in my diet faithfully, along with whey protein, Satietrol, and the calcium rich vegies. On days when I've monitored my calcium consumption with the computer program, I come in slightly about 1500 mg from my food. That being the case, I have not supplemented with calcium, but someone please thump me on the head if I'm wrong about that. (First DEXA indicated no osteopenia at age 50.) Joanne, a lot of people a few years back on the lists were recommending Jarrow's Bone Up. If this isn't still the best recommendation for supplemental calcium, I hope someone will speak up. (I've recommended it to FRIENDS who don't eat well!) Suz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2003 Report Share Posted March 22, 2003 I don't think anyone has answered this yet, so I'll give it a shot. Phosphorus is necessary for calcium absorption. I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that the relationship between calcium absorption and phosphorus levels is largely a function of the *balance* between calcium and phosphorus. Like blood sugar or blood pH, this is in part determined by the body's own regulating mechanisms, and can also be influenced by significant excesses or deficiencies in [carbs, acid/alkaline foods, or in this case] phosphorus. So, part of this is maintaining proper balance on the regulatory end by not consuming sugar or caffeine etc, and part is avoiding shortages or excesses of calcium and phosphorus. In our day, it is more likely to have phosphorus excess because people drink soda, which is loaded with phosphoric acid. But otherwise, phosphorus is a *good* thing... at least this is my understanding. What's doing *far* more harm to your calcium absorption is drinking " fortified " orange juice. Orange juice is loaded with sugar, which upsets calcium/phosphorus ratios AND is heavily acidic, which could potentially throw off your acid/alkaline balance and at least heighten your calcium requirements. Also, if the milk is pasteurized, the cooked protein is likely contributing to an acid state, and the lack of phosphotase enzymes vitamin D3 (depending on how it's fortified) and other problems will all limit its effectiveness as a calcium source, and commercial milk consistently is shown to have bad calcium utilization. On the other hand, if it is raw, particularly grass-fed, it is a great calcium source. People have been living with strong bones on this earth long before citrical was invented, and have gotten calcium primarily from food, milk for the last 7000 years, or other phosphorus-containing foods or *with* other phosphorus containing foods. I wouldn't worry about this. I'd worry more about the OJ, especially if it's every day. Chris ____ " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for those who do them wrong. " --Saint Isaac the Syrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2003 Report Share Posted March 23, 2003 In a message dated 3/23/03 4:28:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, je@... writes: > hey, I have a friend that argues with me over the whole raw milk pasteurized > milk issue~ > he is an avid hiker and appears in complete health... he tells me he has > been drinking pasteurized skim milk all his life... what rebuttal would you > say to someone like this?? :/ Well Jen, like Salam pointed out there are obvious reasons why it is bad for you. However, there is no easy reply. If his homocysteine levels are fine, his bones are fine, he's not developing calcium deposits, etc, etc, maybe he can go his whole life drinking that crap... some people are not so lucky. On the other hand, he could run into problems later in life. Studies done with significant amounts of people show that by and large many/most people run into problems, e.g. raising homocysteine levels from lack of b vitamins to digest the lactose (one or two studies have been posted to this list on this and discussed several times), but I'm sure that study didn't find this happened to *everyone*. Other factors in the diet or simply taking a multi-vitamin *might* ameliorate that for many people. The fact is that some people are born in a better or worse state of health and some people's body's can take a lot more abuse than others'. The fact that he is an avid hiker no doubt ameliorates the situation, as people with equally bad diets will show great disparities in health simply based on an active lifestyle and a postitive outlook on life. The only reply I can think of, and it isn't necessarily a convincing one, is to point out the *long-term* damages that happen to *other* people. After all, no one (well, mostly) would argue that cigarettes do not cause cancer because " I've been smoking for 26 years and I don't have cancer. " Chris ____ " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the truth, and for those who do them wrong. " --Saint Isaac the Syrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2003 Report Share Posted March 23, 2003 thanks Chris... hey, I have a friend that argues with me over the whole raw milk pasteurized milk issue~ he is an avid hiker and appears in complete health... he tells me he has been drinking pasteurized skim milk all his life... what rebuttal would you say to someone like this?? :/ jen ----- Original Message ----- From: <ChrisMasterjohn@...> < > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 7:36 PM Subject: Re: Calcium question > I don't think anyone has answered this yet, so I'll give it a shot. > > Phosphorus is necessary for calcium absorption. I may be wrong, but it is my > understanding that the relationship between calcium absorption and phosphorus > levels is largely a function of the *balance* between calcium and phosphorus. > Like blood sugar or blood pH, this is in part determined by the body's own > regulating mechanisms, and can also be influenced by significant excesses or > deficiencies in [carbs, acid/alkaline foods, or in this case] phosphorus. > So, part of this is maintaining proper balance on the regulatory end by not > consuming sugar or caffeine etc, and part is avoiding shortages or excesses > of calcium and phosphorus. > > In our day, it is more likely to have phosphorus excess because people drink > soda, which is loaded with phosphoric acid. But otherwise, phosphorus is a > *good* thing... at least this is my understanding. > > What's doing *far* more harm to your calcium absorption is drinking > " fortified " orange juice. Orange juice is loaded with sugar, which upsets > calcium/phosphorus ratios AND is heavily acidic, which could potentially > throw off your acid/alkaline balance and at least heighten your calcium > requirements. > > Also, if the milk is pasteurized, the cooked protein is likely contributing > to an acid state, and the lack of phosphotase enzymes vitamin D3 (depending > on how it's fortified) and other problems will all limit its effectiveness as > a calcium source, and commercial milk consistently is shown to have bad > calcium utilization. On the other hand, if it is raw, particularly > grass-fed, it is a great calcium source. > > People have been living with strong bones on this earth long before citrical > was invented, and have gotten calcium primarily from food, milk for the last > 7000 years, or other phosphorus-containing foods or *with* other phosphorus > containing foods. I wouldn't worry about this. I'd worry more about the OJ, > especially if it's every day. > > Chris > > ____ > > " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a > heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and > animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of > them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense > compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to > bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. > Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the > truth, and for those who do them wrong. " > > --Saint Isaac the Syrian > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2003 Report Share Posted March 23, 2003 Jen, well, as the saying goes, there are exceptions to every rule. However, this all could catch up with him later in life. I have heard of people drinking pasteurized milk and ending up with severe arthritis. Most likely it wasn't all cause by the milk or the processing of the milk but by the rest of their diet as well. danny Creek Bend Dairy Farm Harry & Peggy Strite 11917 Snug Harbor Lane port, MD 21795 301-582-4135 cbdfarm@... hey, I have a friend that argues with me over the whole raw milk pasteurized milk issue~ he is an avid hiker and appears in complete health... he tells me he has been drinking pasteurized skim milk all his life... what rebuttal would you say to someone like this?? :/ jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2003 Report Share Posted March 23, 2003 I didn't know you smoke Chris?? wow... I thought you were on the candida diet ....cigarettes are cured with sugar you know jen > > The only reply I can think of, and it isn't necessarily a convincing one, is > to point out the *long-term* damages that happen to *other* people. After > all, no one (well, mostly) would argue that cigarettes do not cause cancer > because " I've been smoking for 26 years and I don't have cancer. " > > Chris > > ____ > > " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a > heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and > animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of > them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense > compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to > bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature. > Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the > truth, and for those who do them wrong. " > > --Saint Isaac the Syrian > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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