Re: NALTREXONE CONCERNS - stop or stay the course?

[Guest guest]

The studies that the other forum person has quoted appear to be someone who

has a) not understood that low dose naltrexone is different in action and

results and side effects from the normal dose usage for drug abuse, and

this person has quoted studies which were using the high dose.

The doses used in LD treatment are so much lower than used in drug abuse

that one should not expect the same side effects. For sure the chance of

liver function effects are tiny compared to normal high dose use, I have

never read or heard of anyone with liver function effects. I think the

'scary' info provided is wrong in the LDN context.

Dr Bihari says many times that if you exceed the advised low dose limit,

this can have negative effects on immunity. This seems to agree with the

" scary " quotes which are based on levels over 10x the suggested low dosage.

As you might know from my site I had similar dramatic increase in cell

counts as you report after using LDN, so this seems to be consistent. I

never had my immune cell activity tested because it is difficult here, so

can't offer any info on that side.

I guess you have seen Bihari's LDN site? THere's a link to it from my page

on LDN which you can get to from my site - address at the bottom of this -

go to home page then Naltrexone page on buttons at the right.

n

At 19:41 12/07/03, you wrote:

>I have suffered 20+ years from chronic candidiasis (now under

>control) and various allergies. I have been on LDN (Low Dose

>Naltrexone) @ 3mg/day for 9 mos. to try and restore my imbalanced

>cellular immunity (deficient NK cell activity and CD8 count).

>

>Since my last immune test (which was just prior to starting LDN), I

>have had increases of 51% on my Total T-cells, 57% on my CD4s, and

>46% on my CD8s, however, my NK cell activity is still below normal

>range. I have not been in these ranges for at least 2 years. It is

>impossible for me to attribute these significant gains just to LDN

>since I added many other supplements during this time as well. My

>liver enzymes are normal despite having been on it 9 mos.

>

>Nonetheless, an advocate against its use from another forum suggested

>for me to drop it for the following reasons (scary findings):

>

> " Naltrexone will not inhibit herpes or viruses, it is used for people

>on drugs or have alcohol problems. If you have a side effect problem

>you can not sue for off label use. If for some reason you take too

>much Naltreone it will damage your liver. "

>

> " It is very likely that in a trial taken in 1986, those with advanced

>HIV that took Naltrexone advanced to AIDS. It may have activated

>herpes and increased HIV viral replication. And this created

>questionable or negative results in the trial that was given at the

>time everyone was looking for a drug or herb that could deal with

>HIV. PWA's were dying in large numbers and would try anything. And

>were trying everything. "

>

> " At baseline, naltrexone treatment resulted in higher cortisol levels

>and lower levels of craving than placebo treatment......Naltrexone

>also resulted in higher levels of adrenocorticotropic hormone and

>cortisol than placebo treatment, and levels of cortisol were

>negatively correlated with intensity of alcohol craving. "

>

> " Your using naltrexone based on someone saying this will increase

>your T-cells......this has not been proved in a trial. If you want to

>get an increase in your T-cells, find a supplement that proves in

>trial that it does this...don't just guess at things because of

>heresay. "

>

>The cons of using it in his above posts based on the premise that it

>can raise cortisol levels which can immunosuppressive and lower my

>CD8s. However, again, both my CD4's and 8s went up (my 4s faster than

>my 8s) since the last test which was prior to starting therapy.

>

>For those of you who've done more research or/and have used it longer

>than I, what do you think I should do? I hate to stop something that

>could put my immune imbalances back in check but at the same time

>don't want to cause new ones or have it backfire on me.

n

Canberra, Australia

http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~julian/photo-an/photo-an.htm

[Guest guest]

I don't buy that LDN is just heresay. Dr. Bihari has been researching it

for almost 20 years. He is an educated man. He has also been on it for 12

years himself. I don't think that he would let himself be on it if he

thought that it could cause problems later. I am staying on it and going to

have my liver levels checked every so often.

Marie

----- Original Message -----

From: " kutaman2002 " <os37@...>

<low dose naltrexone >

Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 5:29 AM

Subject: [low dose naltrexone] NALTREXONE CONCERNS - stop or stay the course?

> I am new to this list and have suffered 20+ years from chronic

> candidiasis (now under control) and various allergies. I have been on

> LDN (Low Dose Naltrexone) @ 3mg/day for 9 mos. to try and restore my

> imbalanced cellular immunity (deficient NK cell activity and CD8

> count).

>

> Since my last immune test (which was just prior to starting LDN), I

> have had increases of 51% on my Total T-cells, 57% on my CD4s, and

> 46% on my CD8s, however, my NK cell activity is still below normal

> range. I have not been in these ranges for at least 2 years. It is

> impossible for me to attribute these significant gains just to LDN

> since I added many other supplements during this time as well. My

> liver enzymes are normal despite having been on it 9 mos.

>

> Nonetheless, an advocate against its use from another forum suggested

> for me to drop it for the following reasons (scary findings):

>

> " Naltrexone will not inhibit herpes or viruses, it is used for people

> on drugs or have alcohol problems. If you have a side effect problem

> you can not sue for off label use. If for some reason you take too

> much Naltreone it will damage your liver. "

>

> " It is very likely that in a trial taken in 1986, those with advanced

> HIV that took Naltrexone advanced to AIDS. It may have activated

> herpes and increased HIV viral replication. And this created

> questionable or negative results in the trial that was given at the

> time everyone was looking for a drug or herb that could deal with

> HIV. PWA's were dying in large numbers and would try anything. And

> were trying everything. "

>

> " At baseline, naltrexone treatment resulted in higher cortisol levels

> and lower levels of craving than placebo treatment......Naltrexone

> also resulted in higher levels of adrenocorticotropic hormone and

> cortisol than placebo treatment, and levels of cortisol were

> negatively correlated with intensity of alcohol craving. "

>

> " Your using naltrexone based on someone saying this will increase

> your T-cells......this has not been proved in a trial. If you want to

> get an increase in your T-cells, find a supplement that proves in

> trial that it does this...don't just guess at things because of

> heresay. "

>

> The cons of using it in his above posts based on the premise that it

> can raise cortisol levels which can immunosuppressive and lower my

> CD8s. However, again, both my CD4's and 8s went up (my 4s faster than

> my 8s) since the last test which was prior to starting therapy.

>

> For those of you who've done more research or/and have used it longer

> than I, what do you think I should do? I hate to stop something that

> could put my immune imbalances back in check but at the same time

> don't want to cause new ones or have it backfire on me.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

we are taking naltrexone at levels over 10 times lower than FDA approval

dosages for addicts (assuming 4.5mg is what the majority is taking and

50mg is what is approved for addicts). Many doc's besides Dr. Bihari have

used this treatment for MS and are familear with the side effects

(which are almost nil). We KNOW what the side effects are for steroids,

betaseron, copaxone, etc. and they are all horrible. I think LDN is a

wonderful drug to cease the progression of MS with no or little side

effects.

I, for one, feel great. I just wish now my balance would improve.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, Marie Deady wrote:

> I don't buy that LDN is just heresay. Dr. Bihari has been researching it

> for almost 20 years. He is an educated man. He has also been on it for 12

> years himself. I don't think that he would let himself be on it if he

> thought that it could cause problems later. I am staying on it and going to

> have my liver levels checked every so often.

> Marie

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " kutaman2002 " <os37@...>

> <low dose naltrexone >

> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 5:29 AM

> Subject: [low dose naltrexone] NALTREXONE CONCERNS - stop or stay the course?

>

>

> > I am new to this list and have suffered 20+ years from chronic

> > candidiasis (now under control) and various allergies. I have been on

> > LDN (Low Dose Naltrexone) @ 3mg/day for 9 mos. to try and restore my

> > imbalanced cellular immunity (deficient NK cell activity and CD8

> > count).

> >

> > Since my last immune test (which was just prior to starting LDN), I

> > have had increases of 51% on my Total T-cells, 57% on my CD4s, and

> > 46% on my CD8s, however, my NK cell activity is still below normal

> > range. I have not been in these ranges for at least 2 years. It is

> > impossible for me to attribute these significant gains just to LDN

> > since I added many other supplements during this time as well. My

> > liver enzymes are normal despite having been on it 9 mos.

> >

> > Nonetheless, an advocate against its use from another forum suggested

> > for me to drop it for the following reasons (scary findings):

> >

> > " Naltrexone will not inhibit herpes or viruses, it is used for people

> > on drugs or have alcohol problems. If you have a side effect problem

> > you can not sue for off label use. If for some reason you take too

> > much Naltreone it will damage your liver. "

> >

> > " It is very likely that in a trial taken in 1986, those with advanced

> > HIV that took Naltrexone advanced to AIDS. It may have activated

> > herpes and increased HIV viral replication. And this created

> > questionable or negative results in the trial that was given at the

> > time everyone was looking for a drug or herb that could deal with

> > HIV. PWA's were dying in large numbers and would try anything. And

> > were trying everything. "

> >

> > " At baseline, naltrexone treatment resulted in higher cortisol levels

> > and lower levels of craving than placebo treatment......Naltrexone

> > also resulted in higher levels of adrenocorticotropic hormone and

> > cortisol than placebo treatment, and levels of cortisol were

> > negatively correlated with intensity of alcohol craving. "

> >

> > " Your using naltrexone based on someone saying this will increase

> > your T-cells......this has not been proved in a trial. If you want to

> > get an increase in your T-cells, find a supplement that proves in

> > trial that it does this...don't just guess at things because of

> > heresay. "

> >

> > The cons of using it in his above posts based on the premise that it

> > can raise cortisol levels which can immunosuppressive and lower my

> > CD8s. However, again, both my CD4's and 8s went up (my 4s faster than

> > my 8s) since the last test which was prior to starting therapy.

> >

> > For those of you who've done more research or/and have used it longer

> > than I, what do you think I should do? I hate to stop something that

> > could put my immune imbalances back in check but at the same time

> > don't want to cause new ones or have it backfire on me.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

It appears to me that things are moving in the right direction for you. I

would say just keep a check on yourself and keep taking LDN.

The information that was quoted to you, I believe, was only partially

quoted. Most of it is true except that it relates to dosages at or above

50mg and some of it is at 300mg dosages. Therefore, is not applicable to

4.5mg dosages or less.

Noland

----- Original Message -----

From: " kutaman2002 " <os37@...>

<low dose naltrexone >

Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 3:29 AM

Subject: [low dose naltrexone] NALTREXONE CONCERNS - stop or stay the course?

> I am new to this list and have suffered 20+ years from chronic

> candidiasis (now under control) and various allergies. I have been on

> LDN (Low Dose Naltrexone) @ 3mg/day for 9 mos. to try and restore my

> imbalanced cellular immunity (deficient NK cell activity and CD8

> count).

>

> Since my last immune test (which was just prior to starting LDN), I

> have had increases of 51% on my Total T-cells, 57% on my CD4s, and

> 46% on my CD8s, however, my NK cell activity is still below normal

> range. I have not been in these ranges for at least 2 years. It is

> impossible for me to attribute these significant gains just to LDN

> since I added many other supplements during this time as well. My

> liver enzymes are normal despite having been on it 9 mos.

>

> Nonetheless, an advocate against its use from another forum suggested

> for me to drop it for the following reasons (scary findings):

>

> " Naltrexone will not inhibit herpes or viruses, it is used for people

> on drugs or have alcohol problems. If you have a side effect problem

> you can not sue for off label use. If for some reason you take too

> much Naltreone it will damage your liver. "

>

> " It is very likely that in a trial taken in 1986, those with advanced

> HIV that took Naltrexone advanced to AIDS. It may have activated

> herpes and increased HIV viral replication. And this created

> questionable or negative results in the trial that was given at the

> time everyone was looking for a drug or herb that could deal with

> HIV. PWA's were dying in large numbers and would try anything. And

> were trying everything. "

>

> " At baseline, naltrexone treatment resulted in higher cortisol levels

> and lower levels of craving than placebo treatment......Naltrexone

> also resulted in higher levels of adrenocorticotropic hormone and

> cortisol than placebo treatment, and levels of cortisol were

> negatively correlated with intensity of alcohol craving. "

>

> " Your using naltrexone based on someone saying this will increase

> your T-cells......this has not been proved in a trial. If you want to

> get an increase in your T-cells, find a supplement that proves in

> trial that it does this...don't just guess at things because of

> heresay. "

>

> The cons of using it in his above posts based on the premise that it

> can raise cortisol levels which can immunosuppressive and lower my

> CD8s. However, again, both my CD4's and 8s went up (my 4s faster than

> my 8s) since the last test which was prior to starting therapy.

>

> For those of you who've done more research or/and have used it longer

> than I, what do you think I should do? I hate to stop something that

> could put my immune imbalances back in check but at the same time

> don't want to cause new ones or have it backfire on me.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

RIGHT ON MARIE !!! HUGS, SALLY

> I don't buy that LDN is just heresay. Dr. Bihari has been

researching it

> for almost 20 years. He is an educated man. He has also been on

it for 12

> years himself. I don't think that he would let himself be on it

if he

> thought that it could cause problems later. I am staying on it and

going to

> have my liver levels checked every so often.

> Marie

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " kutaman2002 " <os37@h...>

> <low dose naltrexone >

> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 5:29 AM

> Subject: [low dose naltrexone] NALTREXONE CONCERNS - stop or stay

the course?

>

>

> > I am new to this list and have suffered 20+ years from chronic

> > candidiasis (now under control) and various allergies. I have

been on

> > LDN (Low Dose Naltrexone) @ 3mg/day for 9 mos. to try and

restore my

> > imbalanced cellular immunity (deficient NK cell activity and CD8

> > count).

> >

> > Since my last immune test (which was just prior to starting

LDN), I

> > have had increases of 51% on my Total T-cells, 57% on my CD4s,

and

> > 46% on my CD8s, however, my NK cell activity is still below

normal

> > range. I have not been in these ranges for at least 2 years. It

is

> > impossible for me to attribute these significant gains just to

LDN

> > since I added many other supplements during this time as well. My

> > liver enzymes are normal despite having been on it 9 mos.

> >

> > Nonetheless, an advocate against its use from another forum

suggested

> > for me to drop it for the following reasons (scary findings):

> >

> > " Naltrexone will not inhibit herpes or viruses, it is used for

people

> > on drugs or have alcohol problems. If you have a side effect

problem

> > you can not sue for off label use. If for some reason you take

too

> > much Naltreone it will damage your liver. "

> >

> > " It is very likely that in a trial taken in 1986, those with

advanced

> > HIV that took Naltrexone advanced to AIDS. It may have activated

> > herpes and increased HIV viral replication. And this created

> > questionable or negative results in the trial that was given at

the

> > time everyone was looking for a drug or herb that could deal with

> > HIV. PWA's were dying in large numbers and would try anything.

And

> > were trying everything. "

> >

> > " At baseline, naltrexone treatment resulted in higher cortisol

levels

> > and lower levels of craving than placebo

treatment......Naltrexone

> > also resulted in higher levels of adrenocorticotropic hormone and

> > cortisol than placebo treatment, and levels of cortisol were

> > negatively correlated with intensity of alcohol craving. "

> >

> > " Your using naltrexone based on someone saying this will increase

> > your T-cells......this has not been proved in a trial. If you

want to

> > get an increase in your T-cells, find a supplement that proves in

> > trial that it does this...don't just guess at things because of

> > heresay. "

> >

> > The cons of using it in his above posts based on the premise

that it

> > can raise cortisol levels which can immunosuppressive and lower

my

> > CD8s. However, again, both my CD4's and 8s went up (my 4s faster

than

> > my 8s) since the last test which was prior to starting therapy.

> >

> > For those of you who've done more research or/and have used it

longer

> > than I, what do you think I should do? I hate to stop something

that

> > could put my immune imbalances back in check but at the same time

> > don't want to cause new ones or have it backfire on me.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

yOU ARE SO RIGHT NOLAND...THERE WAS LIVER DAMAGE SHOWN IN 3OOMG AND

ABOVE...NOT SHOWN AT THE 50MG AND CERTAINLY NOT AT THE LOW DOSES WE

ARE ON....BUT REMEMBER, ALL MEDS RUN THRU OUR LIVERS, SO A LIVER

CHECK WOULDN'T HURT....REMEMBER ALCHOLOL TOO...LOL.

BLESS YOU NOLAND, SALLY

> It appears to me that things are moving in the right direction for

you. I

> would say just keep a check on yourself and keep taking LDN.

>

> The information that was quoted to you, I believe, was only

partially

> quoted. Most of it is true except that it relates to dosages at

or above

> 50mg and some of it is at 300mg dosages. Therefore, is not

applicable to

> 4.5mg dosages or less.

>

> Noland

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " kutaman2002 " <os37@h...>

> <low dose naltrexone >

> Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 3:29 AM

> Subject: [low dose naltrexone] NALTREXONE CONCERNS - stop or stay

the course?

>

>

> > I am new to this list and have suffered 20+ years from chronic

> > candidiasis (now under control) and various allergies. I have

been on

> > LDN (Low Dose Naltrexone) @ 3mg/day for 9 mos. to try and

restore my

> > imbalanced cellular immunity (deficient NK cell activity and CD8

> > count).

> >

> > Since my last immune test (which was just prior to starting

LDN), I

> > have had increases of 51% on my Total T-cells, 57% on my CD4s,

and

> > 46% on my CD8s, however, my NK cell activity is still below

normal

> > range. I have not been in these ranges for at least 2 years. It

is

> > impossible for me to attribute these significant gains just to

LDN

> > since I added many other supplements during this time as well. My

> > liver enzymes are normal despite having been on it 9 mos.

> >

> > Nonetheless, an advocate against its use from another forum

suggested

> > for me to drop it for the following reasons (scary findings):

> >

> > " Naltrexone will not inhibit herpes or viruses, it is used for

people

> > on drugs or have alcohol problems. If you have a side effect

problem

> > you can not sue for off label use. If for some reason you take

too

> > much Naltreone it will damage your liver. "

> >

> > " It is very likely that in a trial taken in 1986, those with

advanced

> > HIV that took Naltrexone advanced to AIDS. It may have activated

> > herpes and increased HIV viral replication. And this created

> > questionable or negative results in the trial that was given at

the

> > time everyone was looking for a drug or herb that could deal with

> > HIV. PWA's were dying in large numbers and would try anything.

And

> > were trying everything. "

> >

> > " At baseline, naltrexone treatment resulted in higher cortisol

levels

> > and lower levels of craving than placebo

treatment......Naltrexone

> > also resulted in higher levels of adrenocorticotropic hormone and

> > cortisol than placebo treatment, and levels of cortisol were

> > negatively correlated with intensity of alcohol craving. "

> >

> > " Your using naltrexone based on someone saying this will increase

> > your T-cells......this has not been proved in a trial. If you

want to

> > get an increase in your T-cells, find a supplement that proves in

> > trial that it does this...don't just guess at things because of

> > heresay. "

> >

> > The cons of using it in his above posts based on the premise

that it

> > can raise cortisol levels which can immunosuppressive and lower

my

> > CD8s. However, again, both my CD4's and 8s went up (my 4s faster

than

> > my 8s) since the last test which was prior to starting therapy.

> >

> > For those of you who've done more research or/and have used it

longer

> > than I, what do you think I should do? I hate to stop something

that

> > could put my immune imbalances back in check but at the same time

> > don't want to cause new ones or have it backfire on me.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sally

----- Original Message -----

From: " Sally " <salpal@...>

<low dose naltrexone >

Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 12:26 AM

Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: NALTREXONE CONCERNS - stop or stay the

course?

> RIGHT ON MARIE !!! HUGS, SALLY

>

>

> > I don't buy that LDN is just heresay. Dr. Bihari has been

> researching it

> > for almost 20 years. He is an educated man. He has also been on

> it for 12

> > years himself. I don't think that he would let himself be on it

> if he

> > thought that it could cause problems later. I am staying on it and

> going to

> > have my liver levels checked every so often.

> > Marie

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: " kutaman2002 " <os37@h...>

> > <low dose naltrexone >

> > Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 5:29 AM

> > Subject: [low dose naltrexone] NALTREXONE CONCERNS - stop or stay

> the course?

> >

> >

> > > I am new to this list and have suffered 20+ years from chronic

> > > candidiasis (now under control) and various allergies. I have

> been on

> > > LDN (Low Dose Naltrexone) @ 3mg/day for 9 mos. to try and

> restore my

> > > imbalanced cellular immunity (deficient NK cell activity and CD8

> > > count).

> > >

> > > Since my last immune test (which was just prior to starting

> LDN), I

> > > have had increases of 51% on my Total T-cells, 57% on my CD4s,

> and

> > > 46% on my CD8s, however, my NK cell activity is still below

> normal

> > > range. I have not been in these ranges for at least 2 years. It

> is

> > > impossible for me to attribute these significant gains just to

> LDN

> > > since I added many other supplements during this time as well. My

> > > liver enzymes are normal despite having been on it 9 mos.

> > >

> > > Nonetheless, an advocate against its use from another forum

> suggested

> > > for me to drop it for the following reasons (scary findings):

> > >

> > > " Naltrexone will not inhibit herpes or viruses, it is used for

> people

> > > on drugs or have alcohol problems. If you have a side effect

> problem

> > > you can not sue for off label use. If for some reason you take

> too

> > > much Naltreone it will damage your liver. "

> > >

> > > " It is very likely that in a trial taken in 1986, those with

> advanced

> > > HIV that took Naltrexone advanced to AIDS. It may have activated

> > > herpes and increased HIV viral replication. And this created

> > > questionable or negative results in the trial that was given at

> the

> > > time everyone was looking for a drug or herb that could deal with

> > > HIV. PWA's were dying in large numbers and would try anything.

> And

> > > were trying everything. "

> > >

> > > " At baseline, naltrexone treatment resulted in higher cortisol

> levels

> > > and lower levels of craving than placebo

> treatment......Naltrexone

> > > also resulted in higher levels of adrenocorticotropic hormone and

> > > cortisol than placebo treatment, and levels of cortisol were

> > > negatively correlated with intensity of alcohol craving. "

> > >

> > > " Your using naltrexone based on someone saying this will increase

> > > your T-cells......this has not been proved in a trial. If you

> want to

> > > get an increase in your T-cells, find a supplement that proves in

> > > trial that it does this...don't just guess at things because of

> > > heresay. "

> > >

> > > The cons of using it in his above posts based on the premise

> that it

> > > can raise cortisol levels which can immunosuppressive and lower

> my

> > > CD8s. However, again, both my CD4's and 8s went up (my 4s faster

> than

> > > my 8s) since the last test which was prior to starting therapy.

> > >

> > > For those of you who've done more research or/and have used it

> longer

> > > than I, what do you think I should do? I hate to stop something

> that

> > > could put my immune imbalances back in check but at the same time

> > > don't want to cause new ones or have it backfire on me.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >