Re: Impulsivity - Dangerous towards siblings

May 3, 2006

I have never seen these types of behaviors in my daughter (high functioning

autism) and dont' remember this being typical of an aspie/HFA. The inability

to empathasie with people or having trouble understnading others' feeling -

yes, but setting up situations for someone to be hurt to see their reaction -

no. Have you talked to your doctor or a psychologist about this particular

behavior? I feel this is something that you may want to get an expert's advise

on. I'm interested to read others' input on this also.

gtnhlp <gtnhlp@...> wrote: Hello,

I have a 6 yr old son, a 4 yr old daughter and a 14mo old son. My

oldest son has aspergers. A psychologist that evaluated him also he has

ADHD. We gave him an extra year in preschool - he's in a class with

typical kids. His teacher is wonderful with him! She has a Master's in

Sp Ed & is a former Sp Ed teacher. She has worked with many AS & ADHD

kids. She told me that she sees his attention deficits and impulsivity

as very different from kids with just ADHD. She has found (and I have

too) that when he's having moments of attention deficits and

impulsivity, if he's redirected and given an incentive that he cares

about (this is key!!) - he get's right back on task...sometimes better

than the good little conformist kids in his class. This tells me that

he CAN control himself.

He has a generally cheerful disposition. He sometimes doesn't know when

his rough housing has gone too far and we often have to tell him to get

off his sister - even though she may have said stop five times and is

crying. He does the same with his baby brother. He's not trying to

hurt them at these points - I think it's sensory seeking (he likes deep

pressure). He's occasionally hits his sister or playmates in a conflict

- but is not overly aggressive..

He's very intelligent. He scored 93% on his IQ - and he was inattentive

during testing. He's VERY curious and wants to know how everything

works. He's always taking things apart and putting them together -

sometimes in an inventive way. He LOVES science. He's constantly

running " experiements " .

But...he does have problems with empathy and I'm not sure he really has

a healthy conscience at this point either. This lack of empathy

combined with his desire to constantly experiment and learn may not in

the best interest of the safety of others. He's done things that really

worry me! Here are the most significant:

* When he was 2 1/2 and his sister was 6 months, he deliberately

knocked a Pack N Play right onto her (it was folded up and standing on

end - I was putting it away)

* When they were a few months older and she was crawling, I caught

him holding the door open to the basement stairs and watching her as she

crawled towards it. He said he wanted to see what would happen if she

fell.

* Last year (he went to special needs preschool that year only) when

he was 4, he was really fond of a girl who was confined to a wheelchair

and required a respirator. He intentionally unplugged the respirator

because he wanted to see what would happen.

* About six months ago we caught him trying to push his sister down

the stairs because again, he said he wanted to see what happened. He

said he thought her head would crack open and he wanted to see the blood

come out.

* Around the same time, I also caught him trying to put a game die

in his 10 month old brother's mouth. He said he knew he could choke on

it - he wanted to see what would happen.

* We had a Cardinal's nest with two eggs outside our window. He

told me he wanted to get one of the eggs and make it hatch. I told him

that he was not to touch the egg at all and told him that he'd be in big

trouble. He waited almost a week, then last week picked an opportunity

to go out, climb up and get the egg. He had heard that an egg wouldn't

drop if it fell out of the nest, he wanted to see. He found out that it

did, in fact, break. He initially lied and said he saw a Hawk drop the

egg - then confessed when I told him I knew that wasn't true. He seemed

to be concerned that he was in trouble and I think he felt sorry. We

were all heartbroken, the Cardinal abandoned the nest and left the

remaining egg.

* Two days ago he found a stick pin and stuck it into his baby

brother's bottom as he was crawling. Again - wanting to see what would

happen..

These things are very troubling for us! We wonder if we're raising a

sociopath.

He was getting OT, but insurance won't cover that any more. My

insurance will cover behavior therapy and I have an appointment to begin

this in two weeks with a psychologist who's a specialist with ADHD. I

don't leave him alone with his sister or brother anymore. He has a

really short leash. I also am really hesitant to let him have play

dates where I'm not supervising (not that he gets invited often).

Have any of you experienced similar things with your AS kids? If so,

what helped? Is this impulsivity (although some of this seems planned

to me)? Does ADHD medication help with this?

Just to balance the negative out...I wanted you to know that he's

protective of his baby brother and will take choking hazards away and

let me know if he's getting into things that don't seem safe. He's also

helped his sister out of trouble too. When she was 2 and he was 4, he

saved her from falling off a balcony in a house under construction where

a railing was missing. These things make me feel better.

I'd appreciate the insight.

Thanks!!

May 3, 2006

Hi!

Max is VERY rough with his siblings sometimes. He

mostly doesn't know when it's " too rough " . He squeezes

Ben's head (his younger brother is 3, and Max is 6)

very hard, pushes Ben down and lies on him, and such.

Max also responds A LOT to what he sees older boys do

(with swords and guns), and responds to WHATEVER he

sees on TV. So I am a TV NAZI: NO TV. NO PLAYDATES

WITH BOYS WHO USE GAMEBOYS, SWORDS, OR GUNS. Some

might call this limiting, and I've gotten the " Boys

will be boys " speech time and again. But I don't care.

- Adrienne from Boston

--- gtnhlp <gtnhlp@...> wrote:

> Hello,

> I have a 6 yr old son, a 4 yr old daughter and a

> 14mo old son. My

> oldest son has aspergers. A psychologist that

> evaluated him also he has

> ADHD. We gave him an extra year in preschool - he's

> in a class with

> typical kids. His teacher is wonderful with him!

> She has a Master's in

> Sp Ed & is a former Sp Ed teacher. She has worked

> with many AS & ADHD

> kids. She told me that she sees his attention

> deficits and impulsivity

> as very different from kids with just ADHD. She has

> found (and I have

> too) that when he's having moments of attention

> deficits and

> impulsivity, if he's redirected and given an

> incentive that he cares

> about (this is key!!) - he get's right back on

> task...sometimes better

> than the good little conformist kids in his class.

> This tells me that

> he CAN control himself.

>

> He has a generally cheerful disposition. He

> sometimes doesn't know when

> his rough housing has gone too far and we often have

> to tell him to get

> off his sister - even though she may have said stop

> five times and is

> crying. He does the same with his baby brother.

> He's not trying to

> hurt them at these points - I think it's sensory

> seeking (he likes deep

> pressure). He's occasionally hits his sister or

> playmates in a conflict

> - but is not overly aggressive..

>

> He's very intelligent. He scored 93% on his IQ -

> and he was inattentive

> during testing. He's VERY curious and wants to know

> how everything

> works. He's always taking things apart and putting

> them together -

> sometimes in an inventive way. He LOVES science.

> He's constantly

> running " experiements " .

>

> But...he does have problems with empathy and I'm not

> sure he really has

> a healthy conscience at this point either. This

> lack of empathy

> combined with his desire to constantly experiment

> and learn may not in

> the best interest of the safety of others. He's

> done things that really

> worry me! Here are the most significant:

>

> * When he was 2 1/2 and his sister was 6

> months, he deliberately

> knocked a Pack N Play right onto her (it was folded

> up and standing on

> end - I was putting it away)

> * When they were a few months older and she was

> crawling, I caught

> him holding the door open to the basement stairs and

> watching her as she

> crawled towards it. He said he wanted to see what

> would happen if she

> fell.

> * Last year (he went to special needs preschool

> that year only) when

> he was 4, he was really fond of a girl who was

> confined to a wheelchair

> and required a respirator. He intentionally

> unplugged the respirator

> because he wanted to see what would happen.

> * About six months ago we caught him trying to

> push his sister down

> the stairs because again, he said he wanted to see

> what happened. He

> said he thought her head would crack open and he

> wanted to see the blood

> come out.

> * Around the same time, I also caught him

> trying to put a game die

> in his 10 month old brother's mouth. He said he

> knew he could choke on

> it - he wanted to see what would happen.

> * We had a Cardinal's nest with two eggs

> outside our window. He

> told me he wanted to get one of the eggs and make it

> hatch. I told him

> that he was not to touch the egg at all and told him

> that he'd be in big

> trouble. He waited almost a week, then last week

> picked an opportunity

> to go out, climb up and get the egg. He had heard

> that an egg wouldn't

> drop if it fell out of the nest, he wanted to see.

> He found out that it

> did, in fact, break. He initially lied and said he

> saw a Hawk drop the

> egg - then confessed when I told him I knew that

> wasn't true. He seemed

> to be concerned that he was in trouble and I think

> he felt sorry. We

> were all heartbroken, the Cardinal abandoned the

> nest and left the

> remaining egg.

> * Two days ago he found a stick pin and stuck

> it into his baby

> brother's bottom as he was crawling. Again -

> wanting to see what would

> happen..

>

> These things are very troubling for us! We wonder

> if we're raising a

> sociopath.

>

> He was getting OT, but insurance won't cover that

> any more. My

> insurance will cover behavior therapy and I have an

> appointment to begin

> this in two weeks with a psychologist who's a

> specialist with ADHD. I

> don't leave him alone with his sister or brother

> anymore. He has a

> really short leash. I also am really hesitant to

> let him have play

> dates where I'm not supervising (not that he gets

> invited often).

>

> Have any of you experienced similar things with your

> AS kids? If so,

> what helped? Is this impulsivity (although some of

> this seems planned

> to me)? Does ADHD medication help with this?

>

> Just to balance the negative out...I wanted you to

> know that he's

> protective of his baby brother and will take choking

> hazards away and

> let me know if he's getting into things that don't

> seem safe. He's also

> helped his sister out of trouble too. When she was

> 2 and he was 4, he

> saved her from falling off a balcony in a house

> under construction where

> a railing was missing. These things make me feel

> better.

>

> I'd appreciate the insight.

>

> Thanks!!

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

__________________________________________________

May 3, 2006

Hi, again!

I just wanted to add that I don't know many kids with

Aspberger's/HFA, but I have seen the inability to

empathize consistently. I do know a few kids ranging

in the spectrum, though, and have talked a lot about

issues, and I've never seen this... " setting up

situations for someone to be hurt to see their

reaction " . Also, Max is angry A LOT. A LOT, A LOT.

He's VERY rigid, and is disagreeable A LOT. He and Ben

physically fight a lot. He hurts Ben, too. But not out

of a calculated " wanting to see what happens " . Mostly

out of passionate anger/spur of the moment.

- Adrienne from Boston

--- ston <jjtripletmom@...> wrote:

> I have never seen these types of behaviors in my

> daughter (high functioning autism) and dont'

> remember this being typical of an aspie/HFA. The

> inability to empathasie with people or having

> trouble understnading others' feeling - yes, but

> setting up situations for someone to be hurt to see

> their reaction - no. Have you talked to your

> doctor or a psychologist about this particular

> behavior? I feel this is something that you may

> want to get an expert's advise on. I'm interested

> to read others' input on this also.

>

> gtnhlp <gtnhlp@...> wrote: Hello,

> I have a 6 yr old son, a 4 yr old daughter and a

> 14mo old son. My

> oldest son has aspergers. A psychologist that

> evaluated him also he has

> ADHD. We gave him an extra year in preschool -

> he's in a class with

> typical kids. His teacher is wonderful with him!

> She has a Master's in

> Sp Ed & is a former Sp Ed teacher. She has worked

> with many AS & ADHD

> kids. She told me that she sees his attention

> deficits and impulsivity

> as very different from kids with just ADHD. She

> has found (and I have

> too) that when he's having moments of attention

> deficits and

> impulsivity, if he's redirected and given an

> incentive that he cares

> about (this is key!!) - he get's right back on

> task...sometimes better

> than the good little conformist kids in his class.

> This tells me that

> he CAN control himself.

>

> He has a generally cheerful disposition. He

> sometimes doesn't know when

> his rough housing has gone too far and we often

> have to tell him to get

> off his sister - even though she may have said

> stop five times and is

> crying. He does the same with his baby brother.

> He's not trying to

> hurt them at these points - I think it's sensory

> seeking (he likes deep

> pressure). He's occasionally hits his sister or

> playmates in a conflict

> - but is not overly aggressive..

>

> He's very intelligent. He scored 93% on his IQ -

> and he was inattentive

> during testing. He's VERY curious and wants to

> know how everything

> works. He's always taking things apart and

> putting them together -

> sometimes in an inventive way. He LOVES science.

> He's constantly

> running " experiements " .

>

> But...he does have problems with empathy and I'm

> not sure he really has

> a healthy conscience at this point either. This

> lack of empathy

> combined with his desire to constantly experiment

> and learn may not in

> the best interest of the safety of others. He's

> done things that really

> worry me! Here are the most significant:

>

> * When he was 2 1/2 and his sister was 6

> months, he deliberately

> knocked a Pack N Play right onto her (it was

> folded up and standing on

> end - I was putting it away)

> * When they were a few months older and she

> was crawling, I caught

> him holding the door open to the basement stairs

> and watching her as she

> crawled towards it. He said he wanted to see what

> would happen if she

> fell.

> * Last year (he went to special needs

> preschool that year only) when

> he was 4, he was really fond of a girl who was

> confined to a wheelchair

> and required a respirator. He intentionally

> unplugged the respirator

> because he wanted to see what would happen.

> * About six months ago we caught him trying

> to push his sister down

> the stairs because again, he said he wanted to see

> what happened. He

> said he thought her head would crack open and he

> wanted to see the blood

> come out.

> * Around the same time, I also caught him

> trying to put a game die

> in his 10 month old brother's mouth. He said he

> knew he could choke on

> it - he wanted to see what would happen.

> * We had a Cardinal's nest with two eggs

> outside our window. He

> told me he wanted to get one of the eggs and make

> it hatch. I told him

> that he was not to touch the egg at all and told

> him that he'd be in big

> trouble. He waited almost a week, then last week

> picked an opportunity

> to go out, climb up and get the egg. He had heard

> that an egg wouldn't

> drop if it fell out of the nest, he wanted to see.

> He found out that it

> did, in fact, break. He initially lied and said

> he saw a Hawk drop the

> egg - then confessed when I told him I knew that

> wasn't true. He seemed

> to be concerned that he was in trouble and I think

> he felt sorry. We

> were all heartbroken, the Cardinal abandoned the

> nest and left the

> remaining egg.

> * Two days ago he found a stick pin and stuck

> it into his baby

> brother's bottom as he was crawling. Again -

> wanting to see what would

> happen..

>

> These things are very troubling for us! We wonder

> if we're raising a

> sociopath.

>

> He was getting OT, but insurance won't cover that

> any more. My

> insurance will cover behavior therapy and I have

> an appointment to begin

> this in two weeks with a psychologist who's a

> specialist with ADHD. I

> don't leave him alone with his sister or brother

> anymore. He has a

> really short leash. I also am really hesitant to

> let him have play

> dates where I'm not supervising (not that he gets

> invited often).

>

> Have any of you experienced similar things with

> your AS kids? If so,

> what helped? Is this impulsivity (although some

> of this seems planned

> to me)? Does ADHD medication help with this?

>

> Just to balance the negative out...I wanted you to

> know that he's

> protective of his baby brother and will take

> choking hazards away and

> let me know if he's getting into things that don't

> seem safe. He's also

> helped his sister out of trouble too. When she

> was 2 and he was 4, he

> saved her from falling off a balcony in a house

> under construction where

> a railing was missing. These things make me feel

> better.

>

> I'd appreciate the insight.

>

> Thanks!!

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

May 4, 2006

May I suggest taking him to TEACCH in Chapel Hill, NC? TEACCH is a

highly respected autism center, known world-wide and has been there

for over 30 years. They offer ALL their services for free, they have

teams of doctors and specialists that can help you.

I don't know where you live, but if it's anywhere on the East coast

you should really consider getting him evaluated by them. I took my

daughter there last fall. Since they do everything for free, it

takes awhile to get in to see them, but they are the BEST on the east

coast.

http://www.teacch.com/

>

> --- gtnhlp <gtnhlp@...> wrote:

>

> > Hello,

> > I have a 6 yr old son, a 4 yr old daughter and a

> > 14mo old son. My

> > oldest son has aspergers. A psychologist that

> > evaluated him also he has

> > ADHD. We gave him an extra year in preschool - he's

> > in a class with

> > typical kids. His teacher is wonderful with him!

> > She has a Master's in

> > Sp Ed & is a former Sp Ed teacher. She has worked

> > with many AS & ADHD

> > kids. She told me that she sees his attention

> > deficits and impulsivity

> > as very different from kids with just ADHD. She has

> > found (and I have

> > too) that when he's having moments of attention

> > deficits and

> > impulsivity, if he's redirected and given an

> > incentive that he cares

> > about (this is key!!) - he get's right back on

> > task...sometimes better

> > than the good little conformist kids in his class.

> > This tells me that

> > he CAN control himself.

> >

> > He has a generally cheerful disposition. He

> > sometimes doesn't know when

> > his rough housing has gone too far and we often have

> > to tell him to get

> > off his sister - even though she may have said stop

> > five times and is

> > crying. He does the same with his baby brother.

> > He's not trying to

> > hurt them at these points - I think it's sensory

> > seeking (he likes deep

> > pressure). He's occasionally hits his sister or

> > playmates in a conflict

> > - but is not overly aggressive..

> >

> > He's very intelligent. He scored 93% on his IQ -

> > and he was inattentive

> > during testing. He's VERY curious and wants to know

> > how everything

> > works. He's always taking things apart and putting

> > them together -

> > sometimes in an inventive way. He LOVES science.

> > He's constantly

> > running " experiements " .

> >

> > But...he does have problems with empathy and I'm not

> > sure he really has

> > a healthy conscience at this point either. This

> > lack of empathy

> > combined with his desire to constantly experiment

> > and learn may not in

> > the best interest of the safety of others. He's

> > done things that really

> > worry me! Here are the most significant:

> >

> > * When he was 2 1/2 and his sister was 6

> > months, he deliberately

> > knocked a Pack N Play right onto her (it was folded

> > up and standing on

> > end - I was putting it away)

> > * When they were a few months older and she was

> > crawling, I caught

> > him holding the door open to the basement stairs and

> > watching her as she

> > crawled towards it. He said he wanted to see what

> > would happen if she

> > fell.

> > * Last year (he went to special needs preschool

> > that year only) when

> > he was 4, he was really fond of a girl who was

> > confined to a wheelchair

> > and required a respirator. He intentionally

> > unplugged the respirator

> > because he wanted to see what would happen.

> > * About six months ago we caught him trying to

> > push his sister down

> > the stairs because again, he said he wanted to see

> > what happened. He

> > said he thought her head would crack open and he

> > wanted to see the blood

> > come out.

> > * Around the same time, I also caught him

> > trying to put a game die

> > in his 10 month old brother's mouth. He said he

> > knew he could choke on

> > it - he wanted to see what would happen.

> > * We had a Cardinal's nest with two eggs

> > outside our window. He

> > told me he wanted to get one of the eggs and make it

> > hatch. I told him

> > that he was not to touch the egg at all and told him

> > that he'd be in big

> > trouble. He waited almost a week, then last week

> > picked an opportunity

> > to go out, climb up and get the egg. He had heard

> > that an egg wouldn't

> > drop if it fell out of the nest, he wanted to see.

> > He found out that it

> > did, in fact, break. He initially lied and said he

> > saw a Hawk drop the

> > egg - then confessed when I told him I knew that

> > wasn't true. He seemed

> > to be concerned that he was in trouble and I think

> > he felt sorry. We

> > were all heartbroken, the Cardinal abandoned the

> > nest and left the

> > remaining egg.

> > * Two days ago he found a stick pin and stuck

> > it into his baby

> > brother's bottom as he was crawling. Again -

> > wanting to see what would

> > happen..

> >

> > These things are very troubling for us! We wonder

> > if we're raising a

> > sociopath.

> >

> > He was getting OT, but insurance won't cover that

> > any more. My

> > insurance will cover behavior therapy and I have an

> > appointment to begin

> > this in two weeks with a psychologist who's a

> > specialist with ADHD. I

> > don't leave him alone with his sister or brother

> > anymore. He has a

> > really short leash. I also am really hesitant to

> > let him have play

> > dates where I'm not supervising (not that he gets

> > invited often).

> >

> > Have any of you experienced similar things with your

> > AS kids? If so,

> > what helped? Is this impulsivity (although some of

> > this seems planned

> > to me)? Does ADHD medication help with this?

> >

> > Just to balance the negative out...I wanted you to

> > know that he's

> > protective of his baby brother and will take choking

> > hazards away and

> > let me know if he's getting into things that don't

> > seem safe. He's also

> > helped his sister out of trouble too. When she was

> > 2 and he was 4, he

> > saved her from falling off a balcony in a house

> > under construction where

> > a railing was missing. These things make me feel

> > better.

> >

> > I'd appreciate the insight.

> >

> > Thanks!!

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

May 4, 2006

I don't know enough to say that if the behaviours are normal for an AS or not

but I know my son who is almost 6 never sets out to hurt others. He is very

gentle! He does have trouble recognising when other children have had enough or

rough housing but to actually TRY and hurt another person on purpose that sounds

like more than AS to me.

Beck

Re: ( ) Impulsivity - Dangerous towards siblings