interview from 1999-2000 between Dr Dave n Dr Bihari

[Guest guest]

That was great work. Thanks! About the Procarin, I asked Dr. B about it and he said after a few months it stopped working for his patients. (That was in July of this year ).

Kiki

[Guest guest]

I found this on Goodshape's site http://goodshape.net/LDN.html

but I used to have Dr Dave's site. I know he has MS also and his

radio show on the web was on alternative treatments. I tried to make

the text easier to read but it doesn't stay.

DR DAVE'S INTERVIEW WITH DR BAHARI MARCH 2000

DR DAVE: MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS IS CERTAINLY ONE OF THE DEVASTATING

AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES. I'M TALKING ON THE LINE WITH DR BERNARD BIHARI,

AND HE IS ONE OF THE PEOPLE TO BRING TO THE SURFACE OR BRING TO THE

FORE LOW DOSE NALTREXONE. AND THERE'S BEEN SOME PRETTY REMARKABLE

DEVELOPMENTS AND WE'RE LOOKING MOST HOPEFULLY AT THIS. DOCTOR, I

THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME.

DR BIHARI: YES. THANK YOU

DR DAVE: HOW DOES LOW DOSE NALTREXONE WORK?

DR BIHARI: WELL IT'S A 3MG DOSE TAKEN LATE AT NIGHT, PREFERABLY AT

BEDTIME, AND NOT BEFORE 9PM. AND THE ENDORPHIN SUPPLY FOR THE NEXT

DAY IS PRODUCED BY THE PITUITARY GLAND AND THE ADRENAL GLAND IN THE

MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT FROM 2 TO 4AM. AND THE NALTEXRONE WORKS BY

GIVING IN A SENSE THE BRAIN A FALSE MESSAGE THAT THE BODY DOESN'T

HAVE ENOUGH ENDORPHINS. THE BRAIN SENDS OUT MESSAGES TO THE GLANDS

TO MAKE MORE. THE NALTREXONE IS GONE, BECAUSE IT'S A SMALL DOSE,

WITHIN 3 HOURS, BUT THE ENDORPHIN LEVELS ARE MORE THAN DOUBLED.

DR DAVE: AND THE NET EFFECT OF THE ENDORPHINS IS?

DR BIHARI:: WELL, THE ENDORPHINS HAVE A LOT OF FUNCTIONS. BUT ONE OF

THE MOST IMPORTANT IS REGULATING THE IMMUNE SYSTEM. THAT WAS THE

BASIS FOR MY COLLEAGUES AND I ORIGINAL WORK ON IT.

DR DAVE: I SEE. NOW I'VE SEEN PEOPLE POST ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD THAT

HAVE SAID THINGS LIKE " I UNDERSTAND THAT AS LONG AS I CONTINUE TO

TAKE THIS I WON'T REGRESS. "

DR BIHARI: WELL WHAT HAPPENED WAS, THE FIRST STUDY I DID WITH

NALTREXONE WAS FOR PEOPLE WITH HIV AND AIDS IN 1985 AND 86. AND IN

THE MIDDLE OF THE TRIAL, WHICH WAS A CLASSICAL TRIAL WITH HALF THE

PEOPLE GETTING A PLACEBO - IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TRIAL MY DAUGHTER'S

BEST FRIEND, WHO WAS THEN 24 YEARS OLD, HAD A SERIES OF ATTACKS OF

TRANSVERSE MYELITIS, WHICH IS ONE OF THE MOST FRIGHTENING WAYS THAT

MS CAN START. AND IN 8 MONTHS SHE HAD 3 EPISODES. EACH ONE

CREATED.ABOUT 95% AND BY HER THIRD EPISODE I WENT TO SEE HER IN THE

HOSPITAL BECAUSE I FELT THAT NALTREXONE, BY REGULARLISING THE

IMMMUNE SYSTEM, MIGHT HELP TO CONTAIN HER AUTOIMMUNE DISEASE. SHE

STARTED ON THE DRUG IN 1986.

DR DAVE: AND YOU WERE USING A 3MG DOSE?

DR BIHARI: 3MGS ONCE A DAY AT THAT TIME. AND THE NEXT TIME SHE HAD

ANY MS ACTIVITY WAS 5 YEARS LATER WHEN SHE RAN OUT OF THE DRUG. SHE

HAD MOVED TO UPSTATE NEW YORK TO GO TO GRADUATE SCHOOL, AND MY

DAUGHTER WHO LIVED IN NEW YORK CITY KEPT HER FRIEND SUPPLIED WITH

THE DRUG FROM A LOCAL PHARMACY AND SHIPPED IT UP TO HER. AND IN 1991

SHE RAN OUT AND FORGOT TO LET MY DAUGHTER KNOW ABOUT IT. AND I THINK

MYSELF AT THAT POINT THAT SHE MAYBE THOUGHT SHE DIDN'T HAVE THE

DISEASE, THERE WAS SOME DENIAL. AND THREE AND A HALF WEEKS LATER HAD

THE ONLY ATTACK SHE'D HAD IN THE LAST 14 YEARS. HER LEFT ARM BECAME

WEAK, SPASTIC, NUMB AND INCO-ORDINATED VERY RAPIDLY OVER A

48 HOUR PERIOD.

DR DAVE: THERE ARE A NUMBER OF SYMPTOMS THAT ARE PRETTY STANDARD

SYMPTOMS THAT MS PEOPLE SUFFER. HAVE YOU NOTICED ANY PARTICULAR ONES

MOST AMENABLE TO THIS THERAPY?

DR BIHARI:: WELL WHAT I HAVE NOTICED, AND I'VE TREATED AT THIS POINT

ABOUT 30 PEOPLE - ABOUT HALF OF THEM ONLY THE STARTED TREATMENT

RELATIVELY RECENTLY. WHAT I'VE NOTICED IS THAT WHATEVER THE STATE,

WHETHER THE PERSON HAS EXASCERBATING REMITTING MS OR CHRONIC

PROGRESSIVE, THE MOST CLEAR CUT THING THE NALTREXONE DOES IS TO STOP

DISEASE PROGRESSION. PEOPLE STOP HAVING ATTACKS.

DR DAVE:: THAT'S WONDERFUL. THAT'S VERY EXCITING

DR BIHARI::: AND THE DRUG HAS NO SIDE EFFECTS.

DR DAVE:: THAT'S EVEN BETTER!

DR BIHARI::: YES. I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT FOR A LONG TIME

BECAUSE I WAS WORKING ON AIDS. BUT IT WAS VERY CLEAR CUT, AND MY

DAUGHTER;S FRIEND, IN 14 YEARS, HER ONLY ATTACK, EVEN THOUGH THE

DISEASE STARTED WITH A VERY MALIGNANT LOOKING BEGINNING, THE ONLY

ATTACK SHE HAD WAS A MONTH AFTER SHE RAN OUT OF THE DRUG AND FORGOT

TO RENEW IT. NEEDLESS TO SAY, SHE'S BEEN TAKING IT REGULARLY SINCE.

DR DAVE: HAVE YOU EXPERIENCED PATIENTS WHO ARE ALSO USING PROCARIN?

DR BIHARI:: I HAD 2 PATIENTS RECENTLY WHO WERE ALREADY ON PROCARIN.

DR DAVE: NO PROBLEM? NO INTERACTION?

DR BIHARI: NO. THERE IS POSSIBLY - IT'S HARD TO TELL WITH JUST 2

PATIENTS, BUT THERE'S POSSIBLY SOME SYNERGY, BECAUSE THOSE PATIENTS

HAVE BOTH SHOWN A LITTLE IMPROVEMENT IN MOBILITY, WHICH I HADN'T

SEEN BEFORE. WHAT I'D SEEN BEFORE WAS THAT THE DISEASE SIMPLY

STOPPED PROGRESSING. AND THE PATIENTS ON PROCARIN PLUS NALTREOXONE

(BUT IT'S JUST TWO)HAVE BOTH CALLED ME AND SAID WITHIN 3 OR 4 DAYS

THEIR MOBILITY INCREASED BY 30 OR 40%. AND BOTH OF THEM REPORTED

THAT THEY HADN'T GOTTEN MUCH RESPONSE FROM THE PROCARIN ALONE. BUT

THEY STAYED ON IT. AND WHEN THEY ADDED THE NALTREXONE HAD SOME

IMPROVED MOBILITY.

DR DAVE:: WELL I'D SAY THAT'S A VERY ENCOURAGING EFFECT, A VERY

ENCOURAGING SIGN. AND OF COURSE THIS WILL HAVE TO BE STUDIED AT SOME

LENGTH AND SURVEYED SCIENTIFICALLY -

DR BIHARI: OH, THE DIFFICULT THING WILL BE THAT IT COSTS ABOUT 30 TO

40 MILLION DOLLARS TO DO –

DR DAVE:: ISN'T THAT INCREDIBLE.

DR BIHARI - AN MS TRIAL.

DR DAVE: AND IT TAKES SO LONG.

DR BIHARI: AND IT TAKES ABOUT 2 YEARS.

DR DAVE: I UNDERSTAND OF COURSE THAT NALTREXONE HAS ALREADY BEE FDA

APPROVED

DR BIHARI: THERE'S A 50MG TABLET FOR TREATING HEROIN ADDICTS AND

ALCOHOLICS AND ALL THE PHARMACY HAS TO DO IS TO EITHER GRIND UP THE

50MG TABLET AND MAKE 3MG CAPSULES. OR MORE RECENTLY IT'S BECOME

AVAILABLE IN A POWDERED FORM FOR PHARMACIES, AND THEY WOULD POUR IT

INTO AUTOMTIC CAPSULE-MAKING MACHINES AND SET THE MACHINE AND JUST

PRODUCE 3MG CAPSULES.

DR DAVE: WHAT WOULD BE THE STOPPERS OR RED FLAGS THAT WOULD KEEP YOU

FROM USING IT WITH A PARTICLAR MS PATIENT? I KNOW THAT NOT EVERY MS

PATIENT SHOULD JUST AUTOMATICLY GO ON THAT, AND A CONSULTATION WITH

YOU IS REALLY RECOMMENDED.

DR BIHARI I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A CONSULTATION, NUMBER ONE, SO

THAT THERE'S A BASE LINE TO EVALUATE HOW THE PATIENT'S DOING, SO

THAT BEFORE THEY START THE DRUG I CAN DOCUMENT THEIR BASELINE

POSITION. AND I TRAINED IN NEUROLOGY SO THAT'S NOT DIFFICULT. THEN

WE CAN TELL OVER TIME WHETHER THE DRUG IS WORKING IN THAT PATIENT OR

NOT BY ADDONG SOME CONTACT EVERY THREE MONTHS OR SO. AND THAT'S

REALLY THE IMPORTANT THING AT THIS POINT, SINCE THAT 40 MILLION

DOLLAR TRIAL ISN'T GOING TO BE DONE FOR A LONG TIME.

DR DAVE: YOU SHOULDN'T HOLD YOUR BREATH WAITING. DR BAHARI, WOULD

YOU GIVE YOUR PHONE NUMBER SO PEOPLE CAN REACH YOU?

DR BIHARI:: YES, IT'S 212 929 4196

DR DAVE: GREAT. AND YOU HAVE A VERY IMPRESSIVE WEBSITE.

www.low dose naltrexone.org

DR BIHARI: OH, THANK YOU. THE WEBSITE DOESN'T SAY MUCH ABOUT MS. IT

GIVES A HISTORY OF THE DRUG AND DESCRIBES SOME OF THE MECHANISMS OF

ACTION AND USES OF IT.

[Guest guest]

Thank Johanne....that was great...I had seen that a long time ago,

but had forgotten much of it....I am so glad you found it and posted

it, for all to see.

SallyC.

> I found this on Goodshape's site http://goodshape.net/LDN.html

> but I used to have Dr Dave's site. I know he has MS also and his

> radio show on the web was on alternative treatments. I tried to

make

> the text easier to read but it doesn't stay.

>

> DR DAVE'S INTERVIEW WITH DR BAHARI MARCH 2000

>

> DR DAVE: MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS IS CERTAINLY ONE OF THE DEVASTATING

> AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES. I'M TALKING ON THE LINE WITH DR BERNARD

BIHARI,

> AND HE IS ONE OF THE PEOPLE TO BRING TO THE SURFACE OR BRING TO

THE

> FORE LOW DOSE NALTREXONE. AND THERE'S BEEN SOME PRETTY REMARKABLE

> DEVELOPMENTS AND WE'RE LOOKING MOST HOPEFULLY AT THIS. DOCTOR, I

> THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME.

>

> DR BIHARI: YES. THANK YOU

>

> DR DAVE: HOW DOES LOW DOSE NALTREXONE WORK?

>

> DR BIHARI: WELL IT'S A 3MG DOSE TAKEN LATE AT NIGHT, PREFERABLY AT

> BEDTIME, AND NOT BEFORE 9PM. AND THE ENDORPHIN SUPPLY FOR THE NEXT

> DAY IS PRODUCED BY THE PITUITARY GLAND AND THE ADRENAL GLAND IN

THE

> MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT FROM 2 TO 4AM. AND THE NALTEXRONE WORKS BY

> GIVING IN A SENSE THE BRAIN A FALSE MESSAGE THAT THE BODY DOESN'T

> HAVE ENOUGH ENDORPHINS. THE BRAIN SENDS OUT MESSAGES TO THE GLANDS

> TO MAKE MORE. THE NALTREXONE IS GONE, BECAUSE IT'S A SMALL DOSE,

> WITHIN 3 HOURS, BUT THE ENDORPHIN LEVELS ARE MORE THAN DOUBLED.

>

> DR DAVE: AND THE NET EFFECT OF THE ENDORPHINS IS?

>

> DR BIHARI:: WELL, THE ENDORPHINS HAVE A LOT OF FUNCTIONS. BUT ONE

OF

> THE MOST IMPORTANT IS REGULATING THE IMMUNE SYSTEM. THAT WAS THE

> BASIS FOR MY COLLEAGUES AND I ORIGINAL WORK ON IT.

>

> DR DAVE: I SEE. NOW I'VE SEEN PEOPLE POST ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD

THAT

> HAVE SAID THINGS LIKE " I UNDERSTAND THAT AS LONG AS I CONTINUE TO

> TAKE THIS I WON'T REGRESS. "

>

> DR BIHARI: WELL WHAT HAPPENED WAS, THE FIRST STUDY I DID WITH

> NALTREXONE WAS FOR PEOPLE WITH HIV AND AIDS IN 1985 AND 86. AND IN

> THE MIDDLE OF THE TRIAL, WHICH WAS A CLASSICAL TRIAL WITH HALF THE

> PEOPLE GETTING A PLACEBO - IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TRIAL MY

DAUGHTER'S

> BEST FRIEND, WHO WAS THEN 24 YEARS OLD, HAD A SERIES OF ATTACKS OF

> TRANSVERSE MYELITIS, WHICH IS ONE OF THE MOST FRIGHTENING WAYS

THAT

> MS CAN START. AND IN 8 MONTHS SHE HAD 3 EPISODES. EACH ONE

> CREATED.ABOUT 95% AND BY HER THIRD EPISODE I WENT TO SEE HER IN

THE

> HOSPITAL BECAUSE I FELT THAT NALTREXONE, BY REGULARLISING THE

> IMMMUNE SYSTEM, MIGHT HELP TO CONTAIN HER AUTOIMMUNE DISEASE. SHE

> STARTED ON THE DRUG IN 1986.

>

> DR DAVE: AND YOU WERE USING A 3MG DOSE?

>

> DR BIHARI: 3MGS ONCE A DAY AT THAT TIME. AND THE NEXT TIME SHE HAD

> ANY MS ACTIVITY WAS 5 YEARS LATER WHEN SHE RAN OUT OF THE DRUG.

SHE

> HAD MOVED TO UPSTATE NEW YORK TO GO TO GRADUATE SCHOOL, AND MY

> DAUGHTER WHO LIVED IN NEW YORK CITY KEPT HER FRIEND SUPPLIED WITH

> THE DRUG FROM A LOCAL PHARMACY AND SHIPPED IT UP TO HER. AND IN

1991

> SHE RAN OUT AND FORGOT TO LET MY DAUGHTER KNOW ABOUT IT. AND I

THINK

> MYSELF AT THAT POINT THAT SHE MAYBE THOUGHT SHE DIDN'T HAVE THE

> DISEASE, THERE WAS SOME DENIAL. AND THREE AND A HALF WEEKS LATER

HAD

> THE ONLY ATTACK SHE'D HAD IN THE LAST 14 YEARS. HER LEFT ARM

BECAME

> WEAK, SPASTIC, NUMB AND INCO-ORDINATED VERY RAPIDLY OVER A

> 48 HOUR PERIOD.

>

> DR DAVE: THERE ARE A NUMBER OF SYMPTOMS THAT ARE PRETTY STANDARD

> SYMPTOMS THAT MS PEOPLE SUFFER. HAVE YOU NOTICED ANY PARTICULAR

ONES

> MOST AMENABLE TO THIS THERAPY?

>

> DR BIHARI:: WELL WHAT I HAVE NOTICED, AND I'VE TREATED AT THIS

POINT

> ABOUT 30 PEOPLE - ABOUT HALF OF THEM ONLY THE STARTED TREATMENT

> RELATIVELY RECENTLY. WHAT I'VE NOTICED IS THAT WHATEVER THE STATE,

> WHETHER THE PERSON HAS EXASCERBATING REMITTING MS OR CHRONIC

> PROGRESSIVE, THE MOST CLEAR CUT THING THE NALTREXONE DOES IS TO

STOP

> DISEASE PROGRESSION. PEOPLE STOP HAVING ATTACKS.

>

> DR DAVE:: THAT'S WONDERFUL. THAT'S VERY EXCITING

> DR BIHARI::: AND THE DRUG HAS NO SIDE EFFECTS.

>

> DR DAVE:: THAT'S EVEN BETTER!

>

> DR BIHARI::: YES. I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT FOR A LONG TIME

> BECAUSE I WAS WORKING ON AIDS. BUT IT WAS VERY CLEAR CUT, AND MY

> DAUGHTER;S FRIEND, IN 14 YEARS, HER ONLY ATTACK, EVEN THOUGH THE

> DISEASE STARTED WITH A VERY MALIGNANT LOOKING BEGINNING, THE ONLY

> ATTACK SHE HAD WAS A MONTH AFTER SHE RAN OUT OF THE DRUG AND

FORGOT

> TO RENEW IT. NEEDLESS TO SAY, SHE'S BEEN TAKING IT REGULARLY

SINCE.

>

> DR DAVE: HAVE YOU EXPERIENCED PATIENTS WHO ARE ALSO USING

PROCARIN?

> DR BIHARI:: I HAD 2 PATIENTS RECENTLY WHO WERE ALREADY ON

PROCARIN.

>

> DR DAVE: NO PROBLEM? NO INTERACTION?

>

> DR BIHARI: NO. THERE IS POSSIBLY - IT'S HARD TO TELL WITH JUST 2

> PATIENTS, BUT THERE'S POSSIBLY SOME SYNERGY, BECAUSE THOSE

PATIENTS

> HAVE BOTH SHOWN A LITTLE IMPROVEMENT IN MOBILITY, WHICH I HADN'T

> SEEN BEFORE. WHAT I'D SEEN BEFORE WAS THAT THE DISEASE SIMPLY

> STOPPED PROGRESSING. AND THE PATIENTS ON PROCARIN PLUS NALTREOXONE

> (BUT IT'S JUST TWO)HAVE BOTH CALLED ME AND SAID WITHIN 3 OR 4 DAYS

> THEIR MOBILITY INCREASED BY 30 OR 40%. AND BOTH OF THEM REPORTED

> THAT THEY HADN'T GOTTEN MUCH RESPONSE FROM THE PROCARIN ALONE. BUT

> THEY STAYED ON IT. AND WHEN THEY ADDED THE NALTREXONE HAD SOME

> IMPROVED MOBILITY.

>

> DR DAVE:: WELL I'D SAY THAT'S A VERY ENCOURAGING EFFECT, A VERY

> ENCOURAGING SIGN. AND OF COURSE THIS WILL HAVE TO BE STUDIED AT

SOME

> LENGTH AND SURVEYED SCIENTIFICALLY -

>

> DR BIHARI: OH, THE DIFFICULT THING WILL BE THAT IT COSTS ABOUT 30

TO

> 40 MILLION DOLLARS TO DO –

>

> DR DAVE:: ISN'T THAT INCREDIBLE.

> DR BIHARI - AN MS TRIAL.

>

> DR DAVE: AND IT TAKES SO LONG.

> DR BIHARI: AND IT TAKES ABOUT 2 YEARS.

>

> DR DAVE: I UNDERSTAND OF COURSE THAT NALTREXONE HAS ALREADY BEE

FDA

> APPROVED

>

> DR BIHARI: THERE'S A 50MG TABLET FOR TREATING HEROIN ADDICTS AND

> ALCOHOLICS AND ALL THE PHARMACY HAS TO DO IS TO EITHER GRIND UP

THE

> 50MG TABLET AND MAKE 3MG CAPSULES. OR MORE RECENTLY IT'S BECOME

> AVAILABLE IN A POWDERED FORM FOR PHARMACIES, AND THEY WOULD POUR

IT

> INTO AUTOMTIC CAPSULE-MAKING MACHINES AND SET THE MACHINE AND JUST

> PRODUCE 3MG CAPSULES.

>

> DR DAVE: WHAT WOULD BE THE STOPPERS OR RED FLAGS THAT WOULD KEEP

YOU

> FROM USING IT WITH A PARTICLAR MS PATIENT? I KNOW THAT NOT EVERY

MS

> PATIENT SHOULD JUST AUTOMATICLY GO ON THAT, AND A CONSULTATION

WITH

> YOU IS REALLY RECOMMENDED.

>

> DR BIHARI I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A CONSULTATION, NUMBER ONE, SO

> THAT THERE'S A BASE LINE TO EVALUATE HOW THE PATIENT'S DOING, SO

> THAT BEFORE THEY START THE DRUG I CAN DOCUMENT THEIR BASELINE

> POSITION. AND I TRAINED IN NEUROLOGY SO THAT'S NOT DIFFICULT. THEN

> WE CAN TELL OVER TIME WHETHER THE DRUG IS WORKING IN THAT PATIENT

OR

> NOT BY ADDONG SOME CONTACT EVERY THREE MONTHS OR SO. AND THAT'S

> REALLY THE IMPORTANT THING AT THIS POINT, SINCE THAT 40 MILLION

> DOLLAR TRIAL ISN'T GOING TO BE DONE FOR A LONG TIME.

>

> DR DAVE: YOU SHOULDN'T HOLD YOUR BREATH WAITING. DR BAHARI, WOULD

> YOU GIVE YOUR PHONE NUMBER SO PEOPLE CAN REACH YOU?

> DR BIHARI:: YES, IT'S 212 929 4196

>

> DR DAVE: GREAT. AND YOU HAVE A VERY IMPRESSIVE WEBSITE.

> www.low dose naltrexone.org

>

> DR BIHARI: OH, THANK YOU. THE WEBSITE DOESN'T SAY MUCH ABOUT MS.

IT

> GIVES A HISTORY OF THE DRUG AND DESCRIBES SOME OF THE MECHANISMS

OF

> ACTION AND USES OF IT.