Dr. Cutler---While You're On Line.....

[Guest guest]

___,,,^.~.^,,,___

Andy, if I can catch you while you're on line here......

There has been some recent talk here (initiated by me) about

a potentially serious drug interaction between mercury and

quinolone antibiotics that seems to be completely unrecognized

in the literature at large. It almost seems I am the first one

to make the connection. I am interested in your opinion on

this subject and if you have any knowledge of others considering

it.

A side effect complex listed that affects a small percentage of patients

consists of psychotic reactions, " disturbed " dreaming, and

peripheral neuropathy, but no hypotheses are offered to explain

these. If one then skips to the pharmacokinetics and drug

interaction page, one will discover a warning not to take the

antibiotic within 2 hours of an aluminum-bearing antacid or

a magnesium-bearing mineral supplement. If one investigates

further the reason for this, it is admitted that quinolone drugs

" chelate " divalent metal cations, and thus the aluminum and

magnesium will bind with the antibiotic in the gut and prevent

its absorption. The drug is then obviously wasted in the feces.

Well it isn't a great leap of intellect to then ask oneself what if

I obey that instruction to avoid antacids and minerals for two hours?

OK, now I've dutifully absorbed the full dose of quinolone. Since

one will also read that a quinolone is not significantly metabolized

on its way through the system and excretes largely unchanged, it

is then reasonable, nay imperative, to conclude that it retains its

" chelating " ability and will gladly latch on to any other divalent cations

it finds...like Hg++ for example.

I have also found published that the quinolone binds the metal with

a single aryl group rather than a double thiol group in a ring (hence

the reason I placed " chelate " in quotes). I presume this means the

binding is weak and the quinolone is more likely to just stir up mercury

and then drop it elsewhere. I also found reports indicating that

quinolones DO cross the BBB. It appears very likely this mercury-binding

with the aryl group could be the cause of the psychotic reactions

experienced

by that small percentage of people reporting the side effect.

This is so potentially dangerous I am adamant that the FDA (or someone!)

needs to take this link seriously under their wing as a research topic.

Suspicion of heavy metal intoxication should definitely, then, be listed

as a contraindication on all quinolones and fluoroquinolones if the

research shows any truth to this hypothesis. It is also an avenue for

getting another independent group of biochemical researchers

interested and aware of the topic of heavy metal toxicity---get it

on their radar screens, so to speak. It can only do all of us good to

get more public awareness of metal exposure.

What is your opinion of this? Have you ever heard the issue raised

before? Are you aware of any research in this area?

---Thanks, Arctic Cat

PS. I can personally attest to the horrid severity of this side effect.

[Guest guest]

That sounds rather serious, and like something to avoid, if at all possible.

Can you give us a list of " quinolone " antibiotics by brand names.

Thanks,

[ ] Dr. Cutler---While You're On Line.....

___,,,^.~.^,,,___

Andy, if I can catch you while you're on line here......

There has been some recent talk here (initiated by me) about

a potentially serious drug interaction between mercury and

quinolone antibiotics that seems to be completely unrecognized

in the literature at large. It almost seems I am the first one

to make the connection. I am interested in your opinion on

this subject and if you have any knowledge of others considering

it.

A side effect complex listed that affects a small percentage of patients

consists of psychotic reactions, " disturbed " dreaming, and

peripheral neuropathy, but no hypotheses are offered to explain

these. If one then skips to the pharmacokinetics and drug

interaction page, one will discover a warning not to take the

antibiotic within 2 hours of an aluminum-bearing antacid or

a magnesium-bearing mineral supplement. If one investigates

further the reason for this, it is admitted that quinolone drugs

" chelate " divalent metal cations, and thus the aluminum and

magnesium will bind with the antibiotic in the gut and prevent

its absorption. The drug is then obviously wasted in the feces.

Well it isn't a great leap of intellect to then ask oneself what if

I obey that instruction to avoid antacids and minerals for two hours?

OK, now I've dutifully absorbed the full dose of quinolone. Since

one will also read that a quinolone is not significantly metabolized

on its way through the system and excretes largely unchanged, it

is then reasonable, nay imperative, to conclude that it retains its

" chelating " ability and will gladly latch on to any other divalent cations

it finds...like Hg++ for example.

I have also found published that the quinolone binds the metal with

a single aryl group rather than a double thiol group in a ring (hence

the reason I placed " chelate " in quotes). I presume this means the

binding is weak and the quinolone is more likely to just stir up mercury

and then drop it elsewhere. I also found reports indicating that

quinolones DO cross the BBB. It appears very likely this mercury-binding

with the aryl group could be the cause of the psychotic reactions

experienced

by that small percentage of people reporting the side effect.

This is so potentially dangerous I am adamant that the FDA (or someone!)

needs to take this link seriously under their wing as a research topic.

Suspicion of heavy metal intoxication should definitely, then, be listed

as a contraindication on all quinolones and fluoroquinolones if the

research shows any truth to this hypothesis. It is also an avenue for

getting another independent group of biochemical researchers

interested and aware of the topic of heavy metal toxicity---get it

on their radar screens, so to speak. It can only do all of us good to

get more public awareness of metal exposure.

What is your opinion of this? Have you ever heard the issue raised

before? Are you aware of any research in this area?

---Thanks, Arctic Cat

PS. I can personally attest to the horrid severity of this side effect.

[Guest guest]

Hi ......thanks for your interest.

There are hundreds of different antibiotics on the market but all of them

will fall into one of a small handful of general " classes " based on the

molecular type or on the production source. Most are quite safe,

but there will always be some individuals with allergies or sensitivities

to otherwise benign drugs that millions take with no ill effect.

Quinolones however are not, in my opinion, benign drugs. You will

find several support group lists similar to this one devoted to " floxxies, "

those people suffering endless misery from quinolone episodes.

List membership is in the thousands.

The general classes of antibiotics, of which I am aware, (listed in order

of their introduction to the market) are the penicillins, the macrolides,

the cyclines, the cephalosporins, and the quinolones.

Penicillins (with names like ampicillin and amoxycillin in addition to

original penicillin) are the oldest and are quite safe, except that some

people can have life-threatening allergic reactions. As long as you're

not allergic, they are quite useful and effective. I have personally

used penicillins a lot in my life with good results.

The macrolides, also known as " mycins " have names like erythromycin

and clarithromycin and may come in brand name time-release packs

like Biaxin and BiaxinXL and the commonly prescribed Z-Pack zithromax.

These are an older class and are also quite safe for most people.

I have also personally used mycins quite often with good results.

The cyclines have names like tetracycline and doxycycline. They are

safe, and I have also used them a lot. Doxycycline is usually the drug

of choice best at fighting Lyme Disease.

Cephalosporins are newer, and I have no experience with them, although

I have never heard of any bad reactions attributed thereto.

Quinolones and fluoro-quinolones are the newest and are synthetically

derived antibiotics. The two most common brand names are Levaquin

and Cipro. Their generic names are levo-floxacin and cipro-floxacin,

respectively. There are others. A good rule of thumb is to look for

the word roots " quin " , " flox " , or " cip " in either their generic or brand

names. And of course ask the prescribing doctor if it is a quinolone.

That's pronounced " kwye NO lone " for anybody that isn't aware.

Just Say NO to Kwye NO Lones!!!

---Meow.

[ ] Dr. Cutler---While You're On Line.....

___,,,^.~.^,,,___

Andy, if I can catch you while you're on line here......

There has been some recent talk here (initiated by me) about

a potentially serious drug interaction between mercury and

quinolone antibiotics that seems to be completely unrecognized

in the literature at large. It almost seems I am the first one

to make the connection. I am interested in your opinion on

this subject and if you have any knowledge of others considering

it.

A side effect complex listed that affects a small percentage of patients

consists of psychotic reactions, " disturbed " dreaming, and

peripheral neuropathy, but no hypotheses are offered to explain

these. If one then skips to the pharmacokinetics and drug

interaction page, one will discover a warning not to take the

antibiotic within 2 hours of an aluminum-bearing antacid or

a magnesium-bearing mineral supplement. If one investigates

further the reason for this, it is admitted that quinolone drugs

" chelate " divalent metal cations, and thus the aluminum and

magnesium will bind with the antibiotic in the gut and prevent

its absorption. The drug is then obviously wasted in the feces.

Well it isn't a great leap of intellect to then ask oneself what if

I obey that instruction to avoid antacids and minerals for two hours?

OK, now I've dutifully absorbed the full dose of quinolone. Since

one will also read that a quinolone is not significantly metabolized

on its way through the system and excretes largely unchanged, it

is then reasonable, nay imperative, to conclude that it retains its

" chelating " ability and will gladly latch on to any other divalent cations

it finds...like Hg++ for example.

I have also found published that the quinolone binds the metal with

a single aryl group rather than a double thiol group in a ring (hence

the reason I placed " chelate " in quotes). I presume this means the

binding is weak and the quinolone is more likely to just stir up mercury

and then drop it elsewhere. I also found reports indicating that

quinolones DO cross the BBB. It appears very likely this mercury-binding

with the aryl group could be the cause of the psychotic reactions

experienced

by that small percentage of people reporting the side effect.

This is so potentially dangerous I am adamant that the FDA (or someone!)

needs to take this link seriously under their wing as a research topic.

Suspicion of heavy metal intoxication should definitely, then, be listed

as a contraindication on all quinolones and fluoroquinolones if the

research shows any truth to this hypothesis. It is also an avenue for

getting another independent group of biochemical researchers

interested and aware of the topic of heavy metal toxicity---get it

on their radar screens, so to speak. It can only do all of us good to

get more public awareness of metal exposure.

What is your opinion of this? Have you ever heard the issue raised

before? Are you aware of any research in this area?

---Thanks, Arctic Cat

PS. I can personally attest to the horrid severity of this side effect.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the run down on the different classes of antibiotics. It was quite

informative.

[ ] Dr. Cutler---While You're On Line.....

___,,,^.~.^,,,___

Andy, if I can catch you while you're on line here......

There has been some recent talk here (initiated by me) about

a potentially serious drug interaction between mercury and

quinolone antibiotics that seems to be completely unrecognized

in the literature at large. It almost seems I am the first one

to make the connection. I am interested in your opinion on

this subject and if you have any knowledge of others considering

it.

A side effect complex listed that affects a small percentage of patients

consists of psychotic reactions, " disturbed " dreaming, and

peripheral neuropathy, but no hypotheses are offered to explain

these. If one then skips to the pharmacokinetics and drug

interaction page, one will discover a warning not to take the

antibiotic within 2 hours of an aluminum-bearing antacid or

a magnesium-bearing mineral supplement. If one investigates

further the reason for this, it is admitted that quinolone drugs

" chelate " divalent metal cations, and thus the aluminum and

magnesium will bind with the antibiotic in the gut and prevent

its absorption. The drug is then obviously wasted in the feces.

Well it isn't a great leap of intellect to then ask oneself what if

I obey that instruction to avoid antacids and minerals for two hours?

OK, now I've dutifully absorbed the full dose of quinolone. Since

one will also read that a quinolone is not significantly metabolized

on its way through the system and excretes largely unchanged, it

is then reasonable, nay imperative, to conclude that it retains its

" chelating " ability and will gladly latch on to any other divalent cations

it finds...like Hg++ for example.

I have also found published that the quinolone binds the metal with

a single aryl group rather than a double thiol group in a ring (hence

the reason I placed " chelate " in quotes). I presume this means the

binding is weak and the quinolone is more likely to just stir up mercury

and then drop it elsewhere. I also found reports indicating that

quinolones DO cross the BBB. It appears very likely this mercury-binding

with the aryl group could be the cause of the psychotic reactions

experienced

by that small percentage of people reporting the side effect.

This is so potentially dangerous I am adamant that the FDA (or someone!)

needs to take this link seriously under their wing as a research topic.

Suspicion of heavy metal intoxication should definitely, then, be listed

as a contraindication on all quinolones and fluoroquinolones if the

research shows any truth to this hypothesis. It is also an avenue for

getting another independent group of biochemical researchers

interested and aware of the topic of heavy metal toxicity---get it

on their radar screens, so to speak. It can only do all of us good to

get more public awareness of metal exposure.

What is your opinion of this? Have you ever heard the issue raised

before? Are you aware of any research in this area?

---Thanks, Arctic Cat

PS. I can personally attest to the horrid severity of this side effect.

[Guest guest]

Quinolone antibiotics will not chelate mercury (or other heavy metals) to a

clinically

significant extent in human beings or other animals.

They may or may not do other things.

Andy